Queen Banana⎮Miraculous Ladybug Season 4 Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Dive into one of the silliest episodes of Miraculous Ladybug with us! Queen Banana, whilst wacky, actually has some significant consequences for the future of a certain character that I'm sure needs no introduction. Hear our thoughts and let us know yours on Season 4's Queen Banana.
I really don't understand why Zoé is even a thing. They've been developing Chloe for a while now and she was really becoming a better version of herself. And one morning, out of nowhere, they decided to undo it all and force Zoé onto the viewers as the new Bee miraculous holder🤦🏿♂️
She really wasnt getting better as a person though. Her being Queen Bee was just her ticket to being famous, but never heroic. It was never "These people need help, I have to save them", it was always "I want to be a superhero NOW". She never learned her lesson, she treats her only friends like garbage, and went along with Hawk Moth willingly at least twice before Zoe came along. At BEST Chloe is neutral and can at least be swayed into helping the heroes even if its for her own benefit.
Zoe getting the Miraculous at least worked in her favor as a person; she lacked confidence and Pollen helped her get it, hence her being braver as Vesperia. Queen Bee is just Chloe being obnoxious and rude, but this time in a bee outfit.
@@onomstarr so you're just gonna conviniently ignore Malediktator, Zombizou, and her big moments in Miraculer? Chloe genuinely admires Ladybug and interacting with her really had a good influence. Of course this is still Chloe. She showed she can make efforts in the right direction, but she's prideful and has a strong personality, she's not gonna change her ways all of a sudden. And I love that cuz it's the most realistic part of the show
@@onomstarr can I ask you something? Did you even consider I could be right or were you just "But Chloe is bad and rule x of cartoons say that bad people can't be good"? I just get that from you...
@@onomstarr the same could be said for all of the superheros apart from the main duo though. All of these 1 time heros only became heros because ladybug called for them
@@onomstarr Nope.
In Heroes day or Ladybug (I cant remember but it was one of the red hawkmoth times), Chloe can be seen defending Sabrina when she was scared. In that one train episode, Chloe can also be seen trying to find an akuma as she spotted one some where in the train. even when only Sabrina believed her.
And in Malediktator, you find out that she really does hate being mean 9Probably until now tho ;-;) as it makes people think that shes just awful. In Zombizou, I'm pretty sure she apologises to Miss bustier and thats like the second time shes ever apologised from what we've seen. Finally, in Miraculuer, we can see her trying to actually save the day for Ladybug, trying to capture Mayura and staying calm about it. She has quite a lot of skill there if the pressure is on you to capture the big baddie's sidekick while your friend is temporarily akumtised into on ofd the strongest villains yet, literally paralyzing the hero of destruction.
Bonus: Why would she want to be famous? Isnt she already? Shes probably world wide famous as she is the Daughter of the Mayor of Paris and one of the best Fashion designers ever, who runs her own fashion magazine.
Edit: AND Despair bear. Wth happned to despair bear? She wasnt even a super hero then.
The worst part about this episode is that it, paired with Sole Crusher, is what officially killed off any hope for redemption for Chloe. After Miracle Queen, I thought “Okay, so Chloe is in a low spot, but there’s still a _slight_ chance she can still be reformed later on.” Nope. With Queen Banana, she is past the point of no return. I want to like Zoe, I really do. But there is one massive problem with her: Zoe is a *Mary Sue.* Her only character trait is “she’s nicer than Chloe” and suddenly she’s the right person to use the Bee Miraculous.
At this point the fanfics do much better job at treating Chloe
Don’t the magic charms protect them from negative emotions and from being akumatized? So maybe Chloe does have a chance.
@@anthonyloveschickens They don’t stop people from having negative emotions. They just stop them from being akumatized. Plus, even if Chloe has a charm, she’s probably still going to be written as a horrible person.
@@hwtvi3466 I hope they use Zoe so that she will encourage Chloe to be good
@@hwtvi3466 Oh but i thought marinette said that in mr. pigeon 72 though
Remember when Chloe was an actual character?
Yeah. I miss that. 😀
dont we all😔😔😔
@@RoshanDC ha! i personally dont
The show was better back then.
I’m sorry but i LIKE zoe
Man.... I just did NOT like this episode. If anything, I was more angry at Thomas Astruc than I was with Chloe because his hate boner for her character actively ruined any potential for a reformation, which she showed a lot of potential towards in previous episodes.
I hate this episode as well
You can like chloe but you shouldn't hate Thomas for his own opinion
@@samanrais4006 I don’t hate him for his opinion, I hate him because he’s an ass on Twitter who doesn’t respect other people’s opinions, acts dismissive of his own fans and calls them names if they say something he doesn’t agree with.
I mean, it’s so ironic how he calls his majority female fanbase misogynists for wanting to see more development towards Chat Noir, one of the show’s most interesting characters who unknowingly is the son of the show’s major antagonist. But no, clearly his fans just hate women despite mainly consisting of women themselves.
@@WouldntWeather oh k
really when does all that happened ?
I despise this episode with a burning passion, it’s obviously just and episode to discredit Chloe and make Zoe out to be the good person (yes she is a good person, but she’s being used to make Chloe out to be a horrible person). Thomas is just trying to get us to hate Chloe.
That’s why i LOVE season 2 it’s the one season where Thomas wasn’t working in it and that’s when Chloe’s redemption arc started. I do not get Thomas’s hatred for Chloe 🤦♀️.
@@S4nflowers in the words of Audrey: his FiReD
@@S4nflowers he wasn’t? Wow IT SHOWS. It sucks that it’s like that but even if the show was a bit on the boring side (story progresión wise), it was better on the story aspect. Hope he doesn’t work on that again for a while...
At least Chloe looks good in that banana outfit (not the evil version)
imagine being obsessed with a fictional 15yo girl
I cant get over Thomas's sudden hatred for Chloe's character then creating a whole new character just to continue to paint her as the bad guy, and its noticable. when there are worse villains to be focusing on. like what happened to the lila situation? completely dropped it
It's not sudden. Thomas has been arguing with people on Twitter over Chloe (and the whole show, to be honest) for a couple of years now.
I said somewhere else that Sole Crusher and Queen Banana are Thomas Astruc's tamper tantrum, and if you know how he's been responding to criticism you'll understand why I said that. Just do a bit of research and you'll see what kind of person is directing this mess.
@@TwilightWolf032 Ohh yeah. I know. Man, it just bums me out. I know a lot of people hate Zoe- and I completely understand why- but I think she has potential as a character. They could’ve done something with her desire to fit in by always acting, and have her grow more comfortable with who she really is. And the less said about my disappointment in the waste of Chloe’s character the better. They could’ve still redeemed Chloe after she lost the Bee Miraculous. But nope. Because Thomas wants to be petty and show everyone that he was right and they were wrong, he decided to just throw both characters into a dumpster fire. It just saddens me as a writer.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios Well, I too am writing my own stories on the side hoping to go pro (sent my work for evaluation to an editor in Japan and got a positive response for the first stage, let's see how that pans out), and let me tell you, Thomas is a great study of what not to do when writing a story and interacting with the fanbase.
In the meantime, I'm also writing a redemption fic about Chloe being forced to work at Marinette's parents' bakery as punishment for betraying Ladybug, and gradually becoming a better person through many experiences that humble her and force her to look at her life from a different perspective. Just to vent out my frustration with the writing, same thing I did for Raven and her completely botched up character """arc""" in RWBY Volume 5!
@@TwilightWolf032 Oooh yes! I remember seeing you in FallenGale’s Rewriting Miraculous video! Yeah I’m gonna read that fic. It sounded awesome from the plot rundown you posted.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios Oh yeah, you were there commenting on my very long comments... I had completely forgot about that wall of text...
I should get working on that fic, I only have the prologue done...
I just feel like Zoe getting a Miraculous and being instantly trusted by Marinette was completely out of no where. I was excited to see Chloè at least getting better character development and becoming a better person, making her someone who could actually use the Bee Miraculous. BUT NO, they decided to throw all that built up character development away.. a completely sad excuse just to get Zoe to be the new bee miraculous holder.
I agree. If the Miraculous crew really wanted Zoe to be the bee miraculous holder so badly, they should've spent more time on her relationship with Marinette so that we can understand why she'd be trusted with it.
Soul crusher and Queen Banana go back to back (I think). Considering that it's been almost 100 episodes and it's been 4-5 months in their universe Zoe got her Miraculous the second day she was in Paris.
Bree lai what's your favorite anime character and miraculous character?
Bc for some reason thomas astruc director of the miraculous show hates chloe and calls her IRREDEEMABLE. Why doesnt he call lila irreedemable instead and make chloe become better instead. I will never understand why he would create a character which he will hate so much
@@Moon07887 I don't either. And why show Chloe having a heart if she is irredeemable? Is that even a good message for children?
I'm so disappointed at Chloe's development.
I hate her development but I love how ridiculously stupid it is
yea i hate thomas astruc, someone else
please take over the writing role of the show.
Yeah Zoe‘s development and plot is much better
@@Missinghimin4k meh not really, zoe barely has any proper back story and she literally got a miraculous on her 2nd of being in Paris ? and zoe doesn’t have much development cause she’s only been in like 2 episodes, i liked how chloes development was going cause Queen Bee was helping her become a better person and helping people made her happy and feel good about herself, but then out of the blue she became a villain. It was such a stupid “turn of events.”
@@Missinghimin4kZoe is a great character, but I don't agree that her development is better. As for Chloe, her development (on season 1 and 2) is slow and entertaining , which made her a really unique character on the show.
9:25 I would really like to see an episode where ladybug gets affected by the villain instead of Cat Noir like in Dark Cupid. Then, Cat Noir would have to save the day.
underrated comment
Exactly! Cat Noir is ALWAYS sacrificing himself! It’s about time something happens to ladybug!!! 😭
that would be nice. it seems like every episode except for sandboy it has been cat noir getting hit.
Nah, because according to Thomas that wouldn’t be “FeMaLe EmPowErMeNT”. Which is dumb. And this is coming from a girl. Just let Chat do something on his own for once! He isn’t Ladybug’s sidekick, he’s supposed to be her equal! Her partner!
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios Exactly, "female empowerment" IS NOT downgrading males. Especially when that male is Chat Noir (my favorite character lol)
if she isn’t ever getting a redemption arc that’s fine, but i am not going to keep watching if they rely on her to cause negativity to other people. just wrote her out at that point
Exactly! He can't write anything good.
He can't write a redemption arc, and he can't even write a cool villain.
Yeah, I swear 90% of the time ppl get akumatized it’s because of Chloe. They need to think of something different. this show is gonna be ruined like Danny phantom.
And Lila
@@yourlocalchloesimp lets just face it's obvious they just don't care any more nd no doubt that this entire season is either going to be retcons or shock bait from now on.
@@Glacialgaming i thin this show was doomed from the very start. from the moment ass truck sold his IP to zag.
This episode made me so mad at Thomas Astruc.Chloe had redemed herself in Season 2 but the fact that Thomas hated her as a character basically decided to throw that all away and make her the villain.And I feel it’s rushed bc there have been people in this show from Season 1 and they haven’t gotten miraculouses yet but Zoe comes an episode before and she already has a miraculous.
Yes he could just sent her to new york for reasons if he hates her and not make her a cartoonish villain worse than the actual villain,.
@@marocat4749 your so right!!!
Redemption comes from a genuine desire to make up for one's mistakes, hard work and dedication towards that goal.
Chloé was on her path to redemption, as Marinette put it, one step at a time.
Then Thomas cut her legs and said "you're a bad person, you've always been one and you will always be bad! That's why you don't deserve legs!"
Now Chloé can't take any steps forward, so she can only lie immobile on the place Thomas threw her at - way beyond the bully line she was at season 1!
@@TwilightWolf032 that’s so trueeeeee!!!!!idek why Thomas hates her sm bt am disappointed smh!!!!
Thomas Astruc is a monster, and so is Gabriel/Hawkmoth. He only thinks that bullying is much worse than child abuse.
I can't, this episode is just the creator masking his propaganda to paint as much dirt on chloe so that she'll be hated by the viewers and to present zoe as the much better bee user and a much better character, the episode is too forced to the point that it's too cringy to watch.
Finally someone who understands!
But no matter how hard he tries, I'll *NEVER* hate Chloé. I'll stay loyal to my queen 👑
@@yourlocalchloesimp Queen bee supremacy🛐
We shall never leave our queen for some weird wasp.
@@blazingblaze250 we know that chloe's a really good character because the show is really trying hard to make us dislike her
I already hate Chloe Zoe forever 🐝
The creator of this show has no idea what he’s doing he throws temper tantrums on twitter calling it a “kids show” and “for girls” when responding to obvious trolls and genuine criticism.
It’s both of those things?
@@Colossal-Red just because its a kids show doesn't mean it can't be criticized. Just because its a girls show doesn't mean it can't have a boy as an equal to the main character when they're literally supposed to be partners, not hero and sidekick.
Some one pointed out that around season 3 they stop having female writers in the show and that it probably effected the writing. If it true then for a show 'for girls' they don't have females writers give their prospects on things, which could explain the relationship and character development problems.
@@Underworlddream + Thomas just goes off on his mostly FEMALE fan base & says Ladybug is the main character & Chat Noir doesn’t matter because ‘feminism’
@@nova4476 All this give me a Josh Whedden vibe, A guy made something that successful, get drunk in success, think he responsible for everything great, don't like any critism, claiming how he a good feminist. I won't be shocked some scandal pop up with him involved.
Also look how he act to fans just imagine what he like in the writing room when professional writer who work in the industry for years disagree with him.
It’s official Chloe has gone Banana 🍌
Nah she gone queen banana 🍌
@@dreekostar2381 😂😂😂😂
Claps slowly
LOL 😂
Yes, officer. This comment right here!
The fact they had to try this hard to ruin Chloe is just a wow. Micheals's whole hate for Chloe is just funny to because her redemption is probs some of the best writing from the show. And even with that he said she never had a redemption arc and people are reading to much into it and it was accidental Some of the best writing of the show was an accident yikes.... Zoe is just a much more uninteresting Chloe and I find her creation pointless and will never be as good or better than a reformed Chloe in my opinion.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Totally, what really sucks is that they are treating it as a kids show, whilst it fsnbase is pre teens, teens and adults. (Yeah, there are kids but still.) Chloe had SO much potential, in despair bear it showed that too. It just sucks that their trying to replace her with a nicer version of her. They did not need to add Zoe. Whilst her character is ok (I like that she has dreams) they should have added her as a background character, and show how Chloe improves WITH Zoe.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
@@saltedwounds I agree with everything you said! I also only think of Zoe as a "Chloe but nice" and it's actually true, also...I hate how they're pushing Chloe to the side now (despite her being one of the main characters of the show) and are making her a villain. Like...what? Then what is Lila for?!
@@yourlocalchloesimp agreed, she shouldn’t be another Lila, but someone who is actively improving since the show began. Definitely sucks that they added Zoe, it came out of no where. And whilst I like more characters it feels boring and lazy.
@@saltedwounds That's very true! We didn't even get any hints at Zoe's existence until she just appeared. No one knew Chloe had a sister, and I feel as if something fishy has been going on here.
I feel like the writers really just came up with Zoe's character *after* season 3 ended, and they just shoved her into the story to replace Chloe.
I found it funny that Zoe said she is done playing the supporting role of the family, but we all know she be a background character intl a Chloe episode.
She said the supporting role of the family not the show
@@samanrais4006 meanwhile Chloe is probably going to continue getting more screen time than her sister.
@@desidominguez2876 idk
Here’s MY problem with Zoe as a character: she’s pointless. Even if you believe Chloe never should have been redeemed/never was redeemed, even if you ignore how quickly Ladybug trusted Zoe with a miraculous, even if you love her character to pieces, that’s still all she has to offer. And only in theory. I’m sorry, but there was no reason to create an entirely new character just to fill Chloe’s spot when you already have an ENTIRE CLASS OF CHILDREN who haven’t wielded a miraculous yet, AND have had more screen time development over the course of three seasons than Zoe has over two episodes.
I actually really liked Zoe in Sole Crusher, not gonna lie. People say she’s too perfect, but that episode did give her a struggle, a passion, a couple of hobbies and a few other things to make her three dimensional, or at least not too perfect (which was a lot more than I was expecting them to do). But then in Queen Banana, they shove all that character to the side, have Chloe hog the spotlight for half the episode to the point that I forgot she was even there, and then halfway through she just shows up and does some generic nice-person things (some of which cross the line of being well-meaning and were just downright suicidal), and that’s enough to make Ladybug think “this one would be a PERFECT Bee Miraculous holder”. Because there wasn’t any other character traits that she could have displayed to prove that she was fit to be a hero, like using her ability to act to trick Chloe in some way (that actually helped people), or her trying connect Chloe wanting her time in the sun to her own earlier struggle of feeling unwanted. Literally anything? Nah, she’s just nice, and that’s enough apparently.
I honestly never cared that much about Chloe getting redeemed. I did at first but then I thought “they had this almost exact plot in Umbrella Academy which also ended in that character turning into a villain, and that story was super cool.” The problem with Chloe’s story wasn’t that she didn’t get redeemed, it was that the amount of character inconsistencies that Chloe had to go through to achieve that story was outrageous, and rendered her development prior to that point almost entirely moot, and turned an interesting morally grey at worst character into a two dimensional bad guy. (That and Umbrella Academy actually knows how to talk about child abuse and this show clearly doesn’t). There are ways to make a fall from grace tragedy story work, but it requires a) proper pacing (which Chloe didnt get in season 3) and b) the character remaining consistent with themself and their motives. Like I’m fine with bad guy Chloe, so long as you don’t strip away all of the nuance that made her interesting in the first place!
Queen Banana is proof that Zoe being introduced and Chloe slowly turning into a sociopath wasn’t done because the writers had a story to tell, or because they wanted to explore Zoe’s struggle of putting up a facade for people to like her in a new city, or because they really wanted to check up on Chloe, or explore the affects of Audrey’s abuse or any of that. It was done in a desperate bid to convince people that Chloe always was really that bad. But instead of actually SHOWING that, because she NEVER WAS, they just make her worse and worse in the most inorganic way possible, and put her next to generic nice people to make her look all the worse by comparison.
Which is sad, not just for Chloe but for Zoe as well, because again, I was excited about her character at first, and the writers are just throwing all that potential away because Thomas wants so badly to prove he’s right that he’s going to staple her potential to Chloe’s story.
Yeah that was a long tangent. TLDR: Zoe is superfluous and the show does nothing to justify her existence. And if Thomas actually cares about Zoe as a character, he can’t keep using her to show people Chloe sucks.
The main writer even said he hated Chloe and the redemption arc another writer wrote.This is him just being petty that someone else managed to do something with the character other than make her a plot device that got more traction in her change than his continued use of just using her as a prop to constantly remind people Mari is 'better'.
@@SuperCosmicMutantSquid Thomas Astruc is the creator, main writer and director of the show. I heard he didn't have much writing control in season 2 (when Queen Bee Trilogy happened), but went back to being in control in season 3 (when Chloé started showing contradictory personalities, in one scene bullying the kid that turns into Stormy Weather, whereas in other scenes she's covering Sabrina and protecting the civilians in Star Train) and now Season 4.
Every time Astruc writes an episode, Chloé is just the worst person to ever exist, but when it's someone else, they actually use the foundation that was laid and build her up as a growing character.
And that's why I say Banana Queen is Astruc's tamper tantrum, he introduced Chloé and made her into the new Queen Bee just to piss people who liked Chloé off and to make sure she would never be Queen Bee again, no matter what the other members of the writing team tried to come up with!
@@TwilightWolf032 oh so Thomas Astrc didnt write Chloe's redemption? Because those 3 episodes were my favourite episodes in the show. After that, its all a complete train wreck
@@strawberrymilkshake3229 This is just hearsay, though. Thomas is credited as a writer in every single episode, but I doubt he's written or has the same degree of control over every episode's writing, given how different in tone, theming, execution and achievements they all are.
Smarty Pants: "She won't ever get a redemption arc."
Tikki: Casually hints redemption arc AGAIN even after all this.
Did she really?
Chole won't get a redemption arc unless she apologizes to everyone she mean to so keep on dreaming chole cult members
@@nickifill1772 This!
@@nickifill1772 Calling people "cult members" invalidates your own point.
@@CelticVictory Except the fact that there's a plethora of people who worship Chloe with a burning passion
Also why can’t hawk moth just make a villain that can grant him he’s wish?!it would be a smart move
logic
He doesn't control the power he gives to them. It's based on why the person is sad
@@samanrais4006 But Nathalie was akumatized without negative emotions in season 2 finale (Catalyst)
@@samanrais4006 Then he can akumatize himself.
@@wyattscott4208 yeah that is when he's dumb
Chloe is just a plot device at this point
The creator hates her and its just stupid.
Highly agreed
Yes. How sad is that?
She always been a plot device
For the first time in my life, I wish I could do something about this. Honestly, I just hate Thomas at this point, and I don't even know the guy.
I mean yes, Chloe was really bad but SHE WAS BECOMMING A BETTER PERSON! In season 2 they gave her a soooo good character development- and then just dropped it. Wow. Very good writing.
*writing
@@RoshanDC oops yes I mean writing not script lol🤦🏻♀️
Where did Lila go this whole season? 😂🤔
Ik right- Its like she just disappeared-
She got herself a job as a model in season 3, so maybe she also got superbusy and, hopefully, out of sight for a looong time.
I don't give 2 cents about Lila, she can stay gone until the ML series is completely over
I hate her so much😠
She made the story more interesting tho
Print her attack for the finale
Chloe is essentially heading for an almost Azula-level downfall.(Hopefully one with a genuine redemption arc afterwards, something like Bakugo or Vegeta)
She's losing herself even more.
I doubt so because the creator hates her
In Azula's case, there was method to the madness (pun to the madness) n the downward spiral of her character was consistent n made sense to the plot throughout the series n comics as well. Chloe's development is just plauged by inconsistency and creator's bias towards a character that they accidentally made more intriguing than they intended n tried to backpedal on it
@@syrusangi8743 I sometimes doubt that if Thomas is like J.K. Rowling treats to Umbridge. Like literally.
Who else remembers "Banana Boom Boom" 😂😂
I do
Me
That made me laugh so hard I mean no offence but chloe you need to learn how to name things better
@@samanrais4006 I think the same bro
@@divyansh3697 in a girl btw
Sole Crusher+Queen Banana were trainwreck eps. In two eps Zoe is introd and given a miraculous and in each episode at least half the time is spent on how horrible Chloe is. Zoe is second string in her *own arc* that's how much they were pushing the Chloe hate train. It did a diservice to Zoe as a character because she comes off as a painfully forced plot device of a character. I hope we get to see more of her eventually so she can feel more like a character not some cheap ploy.
Also:The route they've taken Chloe seems to basically be admitting they wasted large chunks of season 2-3 on her :P
Words cannot describe how much pain I was in with this episode... The cringe, the Chloe/Chat Noir slander, the writing, it just- I’m done. I am DONE with this show.
Edit: And about that subway scene... Can’t Queen Banana just... Leave the car, and go into the subway herself? Like, the last time I checked she’s capable of walking. Just get out of the car, go down there and nail Ladybug and Zoe with her gun, and boom. Mission accomplished.
(late late lateee comment I'm just rewatching the show) Gabriel turns villains into very very smooth brains because he is one too
The sad thing is Chloe was actually starting to build a good character and was less mean but then Marinette gives Zoe the Miraculous and Chloe gets mean again
Nah, Chloe teamed up with HawkMoth on purpose in the Season 3 finale just because she didnt get her way. She didnt even apologize. Heck, she even tried to take the Bee Miraculous even after she was defeated.
Chloe hasn't done a single nice thing outside of apologize LIGHTLY for Akumas she herself caused. And that was only for some of them. She never wanted to be a hero, just a celebrity. To Chloe, being a superhero is about the fame and glory, not doing the right thing.
@@onomstarr thank you chole the worst my least secend least favorite character nex to marinette everything you said was so true
@@nickifill1772 You seemed to be confusing misconstrued with true.
@@onomstarr Meanwhile, you're ignoring Chloe's loneliness and insecurity. Things that Hawk Moth saw and took advantage of. It's an important context that you left out.
Its the fact how zoe masters the bee miraculous immediately and doesn't need to be taught anything which is bull
Honestly, so did Kagami in Ikari Gozen. But yeah it's bull
@@aeongiiiieeeee6358 yeah, I didn't like that either.
Tbh, just about EVERY miraculous superhero instantly is good at their miraculous after just getting it.
@Antoine Gédéon And Ladybug!
@@user-qo6cm3oc3r fr, its really weird.
some people liked this episode, some people didn't but I hope we can all agree that cloeé's hair and outfit looked very nice
I don’t like this episode and I’m disappointed at what they did with Chloe. Showing characters like her in a different light are the best but they just decided to throw it all away
Great episode is it just me but chloe was 100x more spoilt in that episode I hate how season 2 plot was wasted on her redemption arc if I’m being honest even when that was the plan for her character development I was still 70% sure she will never change I wish was not right
I agree I really didn't want Chloe to get a Redemption Arc or trying to be one of those characters who would help the villain and then help the hero whenever it helps her.
@@isabellakoenig7772 Read the comment carefully I said I hate how season 2 plot was wasted I wanted her to be a better character read the comment carefully next time were not at the same page
Maybe Chole didn't grabbed Lady bug’s earrings due to shock? Also Chole’s redemption “arc” was ruined. I don’t get the banana thing but it was entertaining.
Maybe
Why is everybody writing Chloe "Chole"?
Is it like a nickname?
@@nobody_is_here3646 No, just typos.
What if ladybug tries to give everyone the charm, but when she gives it to Gabriel he will find out about how they are preventing akumas and make a master plan or something
Wow! I’ve never thought about that
I think that might happen during the episode Gabriel agreste
Magical charms are for a specific villain and situation, not just handing them out like candy.
@@Yousif-xi5ie yeah but if Gabriel get akumtised then she would give him a charm
@@Yousif-xi5ie I mean she would give them to everyone that has been akumatized before
5:49 that is exactly what I was thinking he didn't end the call.
I know like how did they not hear him transform
Sabrina's obsession for bananas in this episode was... really confusing.
Maybe she's always like that
Im curios how many villans ther left , imagin if ladybug give lucky charm to anyone in paris, consider she do this offscren ...maybe
So far s4 may go BANANAS XD
I fear that it's gonna get to the point where they're just cycling through the same 5-6 villains while only creating new throwaway characters just for them to be evil.
@@ElmerFudd16 il let see who il beat mr pigeon recor then
@@AndrewSnake hasnt juleka been akumatized like 6 times now lol
Exactly and they even want to lead it to a s7 ...
Well I did indeed hate this episode, because every time I see Chloe I’m reminded that Thomas wrote her as obnoxious as possible to make us hate her. Can’t wait for the movies when he won’t be around to ruin the script.
Although he may try to sabotage any sense of positive reception by bashing it on Twitter. At which case, Jermey should be smart enough lay off Astruc for behavior like that.
@@Jellygirl313 I honestly have no idea why he isn’t fired yet
@@little.prince In fact why wasn't he fired for Miracle Queen?
Are you really going to hate him for hating a chatacter. It's his opinion he doesn't like chloe. He's also the one who brought us this show without him we wouldn't have gotten miraculous. You should also be glad he's not racist or homophobic. He's entitled to his opinion. If anything he's a nice guy who has his own likes and dislikes
@@samanrais4006 He's jealous and petty because someone else tried to redeem a character he hates. Despite the fact, it's what fans actually wanted. That was petty of him to undo all those changes!
This is one of the worst episodes ever and I wish it was never made
Chloe has been groomed too hard by hawk moth.
This is my theory
😂
I have no idea what's going to happen with Chloe now.
I thought they hinted at the end of the episode that a redemption arc for Chloe wasn't out of the question yet. Her sister still loves her, Tikki was still hopeful Chloe could be a better person after she couldn't be akumatized anymore.
I also can't help but wonder if Thomas Astruc is really as stupid as he acts on Twitter. He also said that we could never have an episode that focused on Adrien because the leader is a girl. Then we got the 'Lies' episode. So I guess we can believe everything Astruc says on Twitter.
That said, I have no idea how a redemption arc would happen for Chloe at this point. When she was a superhero I thought she would eventually realize she like doing the right thing when she keeps getting rewarded for doing the right thing. Now I don't know what nice thing she could possibly do in the first place to make her look at things differently.
I'm just confused. But I'll keep watching.
Same here.
Chloe is just wronged in this episode . I feel like she Deserved the Bee miraculous its her Reason to live
SHE IS IRREDEEMABLE 😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😡😡😡😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠
They made her worse and worse after the season3 finale
I feel like Chloe would deserve it if she is willing to change her ways but I don't think she's going to anytime soon
Zoe
Chloe does not deserve any miraculous. She has proven over and over that she is no hero, but always just thinks of her own good.
She wants glory and to be praised for being a hero, without actually being one or even caring for anyone else than herself.
She had potential, yes, but she never actually tried to change.
imagine. if the 2 sisters finally started to get along and Zoë assures Chloe that she won’t see Chloe as a monster like everyone else does after what she did at the end of s3. So now Chloe doesn't want to lose her and then they get in a situation where ladybug had to give one of em a miraculous and she obviously chooses Zoe not just that. she gives her bee one and because of the situation she has to give it in front of Chloe. And Chloe now afraid of losing her sister and only person who doesn’t see her as a monster supports Zoe even though she hates it that Zoe is now using bee miraculous. the ep ends with Zoe saving the day and Chloe being happy for her still have her attitude ofcourse. she waves Zoe off with a moderate smile and then goes to her room closes the door and just breaks down crying on the ground showing how much she actually regrets her decision of being bad in last season and how much it actually effects her despite her not showing anything at all and ep ends with that wallpaper kind of thing where Chloe’s is crying on ground with her back to us. soon after optigami, Zoe becomes the only person (apart from ladybug and chat noir) who’s identity is secret from hawkmoth so ladybug decides to leave miraculous with her permanently cuz giving and taking would be risky for identity and chloe too keeps it a secret and sometimes tries to help zoe with powers as she has experience with it. Shes still resentful and doesnt like ladybug at all but she likes her sister. chloe's relationship with zoe effects chloe in ways she didnt even noticed, she starts to be a better person even if no ones watching, she stop and reduces her bullying of others drastically and starts to respect others as human beings and doesnt see them below her. thanks to her s3 actions she has less confidence though nobody can see that and she blames herself for this situation. her change in charcater is also noticed my adrien and he starts to repect her once again and more than before and now is great friends with her and woul stand up for her if needed though chloe is still confident enough with attitude that she can defend herself. Adrien and chloes growing friendship is obviously isnt taken well by marinette, but since marinette like adrien, this makes her actually acknowledge chloe and see that shes not as bad anymore as she had though, as a matter of fact shes acually not that bad. this will also effect marinettes character as well as adriens .
later near or at the end of season zoe is in bad condition due to Vulpina (she is explained ahead) and ladybug and other heros are in dire need of help. Zoe is able to slip out of battle and finds chloe. Seeing the situation, chloe takes the miraculous and once again becomes queen bee and fights, also trying to avenge zoe from Vulpina and herself from hawkmoth for causing her so much emotional pain cuz of the miracle queen episode. She sneaks up on hawkmoth with venom, but he barely dodges it and it hits Mayora, and the fight continues. At that time, Lila too would have been developed more as a villian and she would also be in the fight helping hawkmoth, maybe she was akumatised. But i would like to imagine that she would have some miraculous Personally I prefer that hawkmoth would steal the fox miraculous from Alya for lila in the middle of season but alya wouldnt know who took it, and as we know lila is into the fox miraculous from Vulpina. the big reveal would come at the end of season where everyone will find out that lila is back as Vulpina. This time however, she will be using real fox miraculous and she could also have same design as in Vulpina though change of design could show development. However her name will still be the same marking the return of Vulpina. the episode could be called 'Old enemies' Chloe would face off Vulpina as queen bee. it would be fun to see 2 characters who were initially bad (lila and chloe) face off each other. this will show that lila and chloe cannot be compared as chloe isnt actually evil. this image of chloe if compared to her season 1 chloe, would be completely or hugely opposite showing that she has grown as a person and character.
meanwhile, lila, also changed but opposite of chloe, she grew to be more and more evil and sickening. although lila would grow more evil, this will still mean that she HAS grown as a character. I would like to make Lila as villain for chloe rather than for ladybug and other heros, as lila and chloe were similar at 1st and now are opposite. ladybug and other heros have hawkmoth and mayora to take care of. and chloe can be a hero in this senario while lila, the villain. Meanwhile, now Alya is using a different miraculious, idk which one but once she realised that others are too hurt she decides that hercurrent miraculous cannot help them in the fight and now she runs to get a new miraculous to help her friends and team, she is least hurt so she is the best candidate to do something. She takes a miraculous that has the power of healing. She uses this to heal chat noir and Ladybug but not other heros as healing powers are limited.
Prior to all this, ladybug had called that new guardian from that one episode to get his help to solve some questions about miraculouses and guardians. And he arrives to see all the disaster and naturally gets involved. Alya is healing the 2 heros but it takes time and the other heros are out of the fight as alya cannot help them, it is out of her limits. Now, Queen bee vs Vulpina and gaurdian vs Hawkmoth, while alya heals the 2 main back up. The 2 main are ready to fight again though they are still exhausted and alya used all her power trying to make sure their injuries are not fatal and also now that she knows marrinette is ladybug so she doesnt only see ladybug there but her best friend marrinette too in a very bad condition barely able to move. Alya gave all she could in healing and blacks out and is out of the fight. Vulpina and Queen bee's fight slips away from the others and they are now isolated and fighting each other going toe to toe. Queen bee struggles as it was months that she last used the miraculous and pollen is also tired from transforming Zoe which is affecting the amount of power the kwami able to give chloe. But the heros arnt the only one injured, hawkmoth has a bad arm because of chatnoir and mayora loses her miraculous to ladybug as she is paralyzed, which ladybug took advantage of. now here is where chatnoir sees natalie and realises that the enemy is in his own house, which thakes a mental toll at him from here on out tho hes not sure if his father is involved or not. Realising whats at stake, hawkmoth calls for retreat and picks up natalie and calls for vulpinas help being outnumbered. Vulpina runs in hawkmoths direction and chloe stands still catching her breath looking at Vulpina leave thinking that she needs more practice to defeat her and another round right now with vulpina will surely end in queen bees defeat. However Vulpina seeing the opportunity betrays hawkmoth, she trys to take his butterfly miraculous but underestimates the experienced holder. now, carrying the only partner he has in his own hands he struggles to retreast but finally finds way out and Vulpina too separates and retreates somewhere else from him now that her failed betrayal attempt showing clearly that shes no longer being his partner. The heros try to chase them but the guardian stops the heros saying that kwamis need a long rest to give the heros even a single more transformation and of gone ahead without rest the kwamis themselves will suffer fatal consequences. Queen Bee and Vulpina will have a round 2 at the end of the next season in which queen bee would show to be stronger than this time and win.
Ending : Zoe suffers long term consequences from the fight and she is unable to fight anymore, perhaps make her legs paralised for a while. this will be one of the rare times when teh show actually shows some serious conequences of fights and actions that happen in the show. Chloe returns the miraculouis to zoe but she passes it on to chloe. Ladybug is unable to object seeing zoes condition, ladybug believes that zoe has the right to chose her and the bee miraculouses successor.
chloe more or less becomes and anti hero she doesnt always show up to help ladybug but she doesnt use anything for bad either. She only uses it sometimes to help herself or sabrina/ her family/friends or other helpless pple when they are danger but she avoids other heros because she still doesnt think they like her and she isnt all that fond of most of them either. ik its never gonna happen cuz the writter just straight out called her a bad and mean person but i really liked how she was changing in s2 so im still gonna like her in this way. I also like how in this fanfiction also effects other characters and not just chloe, like they are all webed together. Now seeing the changed chloe, ladybug too beleives that Chloe is the best person to hold the bee miraculous.
Zoe is just a replacement of chloe, even though writer said shes not, she is, but i still like her for who zoe is. chloe left a hole and he used zoe to try to fill it not understanding the only character that can fill that hole is chloe herself. and he wont bring chloe back because i think hes trying to annoy the chloe fans after he got backlash for how he ruined her character. so now he has to get a replacement for her. I can still see a lot of potential for both chloe and zoe and their relationship as sisters. I just dont understand why give chloe soo much character development and just waste her. But that’s all my opinion, no hate to the writer, its just my critique. And just to make it clear I do like zoe, and I would love her if she does something like what I wrote. you can add if you want and lemme know do you think writter did chloe justice by refusing to finish her arc or not. you are allowed to disagree with me.
DAMN YOU DIDNT HAVE TO WRITE AN HOLE DOCUMENT
THIS IS AMAZING! I would love it if the writers followed through with Chloe’s development and made her a better person as well as making her have a healthy relationship with Zoe :D
🤩
You should seriously send that story arc to them. They'd be fools to pass it up.
@@gypsywoman9140 ikr
Marinette Logic: Chloe can't become the Bee Miraculous because Hawk moth knows her real identity
Also Marinette: Continues to loan out the other miraculous to heroes that Hawk moth already knows the identity of lol
They could’ve at least after season three have her reason it’s because of the betrayal. But they never bring up her betrayal so it looks to us like it didn’t matter to her that much.
I recently read somewhere that Chloe was going to have a new redemption, I hope that's true.
Zoe for me is too forced a character: too good, pretty, sensitive and without any flaws .... I find her really hateful.
As long as Astruc is writing it I doubt it
@@Allthingsasian I didn't understand why Astruc wanted to redeem Chloe in Season 2 as he hated her. Maybe he's trolling us all ...
@@lorecava3883 I think season 2 had a different main writer.
@@lorecava3883 Yep he wasnt in season 2.
Just as I imagined .. let's hope that astruc will think again, because Chloe in her thousand defects is an interesting character, unlike her "half-sister". Sooner or later Zoe will have to go back to New York to her daddy.
can we all agree thomas’ writing is the real problem here?
Yup.
Honestly I would watch Chloe's film as well
Me too
Every time she said "Banana boom boom" I threw up in my mouth a little
It's sad that the Creator's decide to replace Chloe with a different character instead of sticking with the Redemption Arc and changing her for the butter
You know alot of people may not like chole cuz she can be very bratty manipulative and sometimes may take advantage of people but you have to remember all of that comes from somewhere she was not born evil she was pushed to the point where she is reaching her limits Chloe is being emotionally damaged and since nobody ever taught her how to express her feelings she's expressing them in a way that makes people resent her rather than understand and help her Chloe seems to be one of those people that have been heartbroken so many times that its push's them to a limit of hates and resentment maybe that's why she won't let people help her at this point she probably just doesn't trust people anymore she's probably tired of being hurt Chloe didn't get a good chance at life when it came to relationships with people she trusted
Her only friend and available family hadn’t the backbone to really teach her what’s right and that she’s acting in a way that only hurts her in the long run. If she truly just wanted to powers to be acknowledged then she wasn’t fit to be a hero at the time and that’s fine but I’d ask who’s there to help her in her regular life besides the people who won’t say no to anything she does? If there’s anyone who could’ve really helped her before Zoe it was Adrian, and ultimatums aren’t the best way to conduct a friendship you’ve had since childhood. He never really spends any time with her and doesn’t seem to value their friendship on some level if he’s not willing to actively support her in some way. Despite what Astruc says Adran isn’t perfect and his relationship with Chloe is a perfect example of this.
As much as I like Zoe (definitely more than Chloe at this point), I feel like they could’ve been just 1 character. Chloe could’ve taken on Zoe’s good qualities after having been redeemed. It makes more sense in my opinion, but oh well this show’s writers are trash.
Zoe might be a better person but she is not a better character
not true. Zoe is better imo
@@BlackbirdRX I agery with that
Let’s be honest, the writing is going downhill so fast for several reasons:
Marinette is becoming more and more obsessed with Adrien as time goes on. It’s like she’s developing backwards.
While Marinette seems like she’s developing backwards, the writers love to show us how much Chloe herself is developing backwards.
Zoe. There are no more words needed. Zoe is just a product of bad writing. Period.
The fact that there are about 20 miraculouses in the show now, like, tf?? Instead of actually focusing on important aspects of the show that would’ve been interesting, we just got these uninteresting, bland miraculouses that are just being handed out like candy to everyone in Marinette’s class so the character designers don’t get bored. Why does everyone need a miraculous? Why do we need to focus on that when we could be focusing on a much more interesting Chloe redemption arc? Or an Adrien-centered episode?
I'm curious why Alya's isn't concerned about Marinette's degenerating mental health.
Would you like to develop a character that is slowly going to be a nice character and getting a lot of likes, attention, and spotlight or would you like to LITERALLY REPLACE IT WITH A PERSON YOU WOULD WANT THE VIEWERS TO GET THE ATTENTION ON THE BEE MIRACULOUS HOLDER?
Thomas Astruc's tweet post made me even madder that he said that "Rude people cannot get a Miraculous." and Chloe was developing a character, she tried to be nice when throwing an apology party!
She has feelings, backstory, her own background, her reason for everything, and the reason to be the Bee Miraculous Holder unlike the OTHER characters that had no emotion when gifted the holder, do you see how only Chloe from all the Miraculous holder broke the curse of the Akumatization? That's what I called the Importance of the character.
She certainly had a strong will if she broke out of akumatization. What was that will for? What did she truly believe in? If she just wanted power hawkmoth was giving it to her. Did she want support? True friends? A family with a backbone? We’ll never know, but I need to watch the show again now just to piece everything back together.
Chloe will be back and will get akumatized again. She is bound to figure out that charm didn't come from her mother. All she needs to hear from her is, where did you get that? Chloe did charge in and made things in her image but she was making the story better the only reason Chloe's story got snubed is because Marinette and her friends have too small and pathetic of an imagination. Chloe was being the real genius. I mean, what's not to love about a dynamite throwing Gorilla? It says on the Kreatika fandom page proves that Chloe was snubed just because of her ideas. Before the movie was filmed, it was meant to feature Chloe Bourgeois but the rest of team didn't want to listen to Chloe's ideas, and therefore went on with the original script and story.
The only reason Andre wants Zoe around is because he's too busy playing favorites when he see's Zoe he see's himself and the child he always wanted which is wrong picking favorites splits families apart.
Yeah Chloe's definitely going to get akumatized again. I also think that this is going to split the family apart having Zoe because like you said Andres going to side with Zoe and Audrey going to side with Chloe and that's just going to mess everything up
@@isabellakoenig7772 Maybe Andre will get akumatized again when Audrey asks for a divorce.
Everything Chloe did was making the movie worse and worse...
Dynamite throwing gorilla is not that bad or anything actually, but it did not fit to the movie they had already planned out. Chloe could have made her own thing, but she continously sabotaged and ruined the movie that, as I said, had already been planned out, just to mess with Zoe!
Picking favourutes is not right, that's true. But I can totally understand him. I can't wait to see what that's going to cause.
@@yumesdreamland It should not surprise you for me to say I loosely agree with you. It is not his place nor is it his right to make Zoe his daughter she is not his to take in. I like Chloe's ideas and I like what she was doing to the movie but I admit she pushed her way in. Zoe is not now nor will she ever be the Bee Miraculous holder that will always belong to Chloe. Astruc is making Chloe unbearable on purpose because of the support she got after Miracle Queen and according to him she wasn't supposed to get that support now he is trying to make her unlikable as possible. I'm a Chloe supporter and the writers treatment of Chloe is making Lila look tame and I hate it look at what they are making her do to Sabrina just to make her look bad. Chloe's character has so much potential.
@@CaptinBen10 The miraculous does NOT belong to Chloe. A miraculous should only be given to someone who actually acts like a hero, not someone who does it just to be praised and adored. She only thinks of herself and has proven again and again that she is not worthy of one.
I honestly don't understand how people can still support her. Don't get me wrong, I still like her as a character, but just because she is so realistic in her... 'evil' ways. I've had girls just like her in my own class when I went to school. Like Marinette, I always had to suffer under their bullying. I can relate to her and I like that it is shown how much damage a person like Chloe can do to someone.
Sure, Chloe is more over the top than someone in real life would be, but it's a cartoon.
Chloe overall didn't change much from the beginning to now.
And people need to stop talking about her 'redemption arc'. She never had one, all that was shown about her was her background, like how she became who she is and how she tried to be nicer only to not lose Adrien as a friend.
Yes, she had two or so moments where her vulnerable side was shown and she wanted to try harder as a hero to keep the bee miraculous, but she never actually changed.
She never stopped bullying other people, she always treated Sabrina like shit, same with her dad.
She wanted the miraculous, but not the actual effort and work that comes with being a hero.
And again on Andre and Zoe, he is her stepdad, I like that he tries to take care of her, especially since her mother doesn't care about her and her sister just wants her out. They are family, wether related by blood or not. And it shows his warmer side, not just the corrupt mayor who does anything his daughter wants.
Is it right to pick favourites? As already discussed, no. But it's totally understandable, especially since first, Zoe is actually nice to him and second, he sees himself in her. He can relate to her.
Of course it's going to start problems somewhere in the family, but it's not unrealistic. Again, it makes him more than just the corrupt mayor.
And if Zoe makes him finally grow a spine towards Chloe, I'm all here for it.
what got me most was the skype call part since he technically did not hang up and in my head it was...
gabe just casually transforms into shadow moth and starts monologuing
while all in movie theater still on the skype call be like: O_o!? da fuq!?
I liked Chloe because she added some flavour to a class room full of vanilla’s. I liked Chloe a lot more after season two in that season she had depths and a story. I still cling on to my little speck of hope that Chloe could be redeemed but that’s probably not going to happen since the creator hates his own 15 year old fictional character for some reason. I want to like Zoe I really do but she is just like every other character in there class room just plain old vanilla .
yeah, idc about Zoe, I see her as just another character. I'm neutral about her
chloe beyond saving
zoe appear for 2 eps and everyone like her
Yeah, I hate that so much.
Really? It seems like everyone hates Zoe because of that.
@@theaboveaveragefangirl Well... That's up to debate. There are as many Zoé stans as there are Chloé stans, and as many Zoé haters as there are Chloé haters.
To be honest, haters suck. And the problem is that most Zoé stans are Chloé haters, and most Chloé stans are Zoé haters.
For me, I don't hate Zoé as a person, because she is really nice...but what I hate is that the writing is just bad. And I sort of hate Zoé as a character, because she feels like a Mary Sue to me.
@@yourlocalchloesimp I think there are more zoe haters than chloe haters. And it's just because she gets the bee miraculous
@@yourlocalchloesimp Just because Zoe is a nice person doesn't mean she is a Mary Sue.
There are those characters you hate so much even more than the main villain like umbridge and Lila but not chloe!
Harry Potter reference. 😂
This episode makes all of the previous season's worth of development for Chloe pointless, especially when she's acting more ridiculous than when the series started. Zoe is such a lame 'woe is me' character that the show trying to force us to like her makes me dislike her more because I know her mere existence comes from a place of spite and the creator's lack of consistency.
If he wanted a character like Chloe to serve as a constant irrational thorn, them don't trick your audience into siding with her and giving them reason to like her, only to act like it was OUR fault for doing what audiences do; get invested in the story and character.
Even if us feeling betrayed “was the point” the show never takes the time to see her betrayal or acknowledge that it was one on level that it greatly affect our main characters in any way.
Personal head-canon, Zoé doesn’t exist and the character is just Chloé’s new “redeemed” outfit, showing she is trying to change and has quite literally let her hair down, also Vesperia is just a clever way to hide her identity by tricking Hawkmoth into thinking there is a new bee miraculous holder. Also Sole Crusher and Queen Banana aren’t canon.
But they are... Oh wait sorry you said it was fanmade
personal head-canon, chloe was always a villain and Zoe was always Vesperia
@@BlackbirdRX i agree with this one 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999%
@@BlackbirdRX although i 100% Agree zoe was always vesperia because she was chloe was 'queen' bee zoe was and always will be vesperia
@Antoine Gédéon how about.. no? Chloe is a bitch and Zoe and Marinette are cool
I didn't hate this episode as much as other people just because imo the scenes between Chloe and Zoe could be a good starting point for development, eve though I know it's not going to happen at this point
Something about Gabriel himself funding the film was extremely satisfying. Like most adults in the show bend easily to the Bourgeois whims and then there is Gabriel, whose presence just screams "this is happening and nothing is stopping it"
I really hate this episode because Chloe continued to act like a spoil selfish brat and she still won't acknowledge her behavious especially now that she turn her back on Adrien. I still don't understand why she really hated Zoey so much because she haven't done anything wrong at all and maybe it's jealousy as Zoey succed what she failed to do in the entire Miraculous Ladybug Series and that's making friends. I think Mayor André Bourgeois should stand up to both his wife and Chloe because they're controling his own lives and surely he's getting tired and fed up with Chloe's behaviour by now instead of being scared of his own daughter..
The answer is because plot and the writer wanted to emotional trick people into sympathizing with Zoe since the Chloe that went through her redemption wouldn't do this. It's a massive character plothole.
Seriously though, Queen Banana was pretty hilarious. I loved "Banana Boom-Boom."
It's just dumb because Astruc hates Chloe so he decided to throw away any chance she had at redemption. She could have had some kind of character development past being the bully but her first outing as a Miraculous Hero she literally tried to crash a train. Like why can't we make Lila the ACTUAL nonredeemable villain and Chloe get some kind of redemption?
At this point the fanfic writers do a much better job handling these characters than the show does
Shadow Moth should create a Akumatized villain with the ability to turn anyone who get hit by them back into a baby again! Then Shadow Moth can take Ladybug's Miraculous after the villain turns her back into a baby and it's like stealing candy from babies like you happened to say!
Zoé seems like an excuse to kick Clhoé out, like "you wanted a nice queen bee? Here, leave us alone now"
I don’t understand how Thomas can hate a character he made? 😂
He never hates his own character.
Yeah there were many moments where hawkmoth could have at least partially succeeded...
Like in MegaLeech...
He LITERALLY had control over Cat Noir, could have had the Mini-Maladictator controlling him take OFF the ring..
BAM reveals identity of at least ONE of the heroes.
Ladybug should give both Luka and also Kagami a Lucky Charm as neither one of them could become Akumatized by Shadow Moth again during this Season or next new Season of Miraculous Ladybug and Cat Noir!
This episode only reminds me of how badly they wrote her character. Shouldn’t have written her a character arc if you didn’t want her to become a better person and instead a 2D bullie. Plus We get more Cat Nior abuse
Zoe could be an interesting character but it seems more like they are using her as a Cloe ripoff, but nice
If only you knew how sad and pathetic Thomas truly is. The fact of the matter is the writers made good and realistic progress with Chloe going toward a redemption, they clearly showed that Chloe suffered from emotional abuse and parental neglect from her mother and to a certain degree her father as well. I mean for God's sake the man is more attentive and a better father to his step-daughter than his own biological daughter, not once has ever stood up for Chole but he does for Zoe? And you know why Thomas is pathetic it's because he's a petty child who can't let go of middle school and will outright deny abuse to do so. Thomas based Chole on a bully he used to have in middle school and he hated the idea of her character getting better so much that he actively sabotaged the character so he could continue to live out his wish-fulfillment revenge against someone he knew in middle school.
He outright denies abuse by saying Chole's mother never abused her because she abandoned her at a very young age so she wasn't around to abuse her as if child neglect and abandonment are not also forms of abuse. He completely ignores the fact that not only does her mother berate her all the time but when Chloe asked her why she didn't love her the woman couldn't even bring herself to say it and you know what the really disgusting part about it is. I'm wrong he doesn't deny that these are forms of abuse because he fully acknowledges these actions as abuse but *only* when they are done to Zoe which means he knows it's abuse but he's fully okay and fine with Chole being abused.
@@aluralovell6829 ooh boy, I’ve heard that he hates Chloe but I’ve never herd that. Don’t look much into creators of shows.
It’s truely sad how this sabatoges the show
@@Brenilla I only really knew this stuff before cause other people have talked about it and then I checked for myself and low and behold it was true, after that a lot more things started to click. Seriously you can check Thomas's twitter and mentions of Chloe that man seriously hates this girl and at first, I found it kind of sad but going deeper in it's just plain gross.
It would make sense for Gabriel to have a green screen of different things why he actually in his lair I mean I would do that if I was a villain.
Unpopular opinion : Chloe has REALLY been developed as a character and KEEPS this development. We see her being jealous for lack of love, we se her cry because she sees that people hate her, being disappointed because Ladybug did not call her against Loveater
But this is the point. Chloé DID NOT UNDERSTAND why people hate her. The problem with her is not being useless as she thinks is Malediktor, it is being arrogant and dishonest. If you are a fair person and feel useless, giving you means like power can fix things. If you give anything for granted, once got some power you will do of it whatever you want. Chloé loves being Queen Bee, to be with her idol and feel loved, and stopped an Akuma saying "I am a superhero".
But Chloe spent all her life in believing genuinely that rich and powerful people like her family are everything and anyone else is rubbish and deserves to be humiliated. She did it for being the Mayor's daughter and for being Queen Bee she treated Sabrina as the "slave" could not understand her, and called vulgar the other heroes. And once not called by Ladybug she did not discuss with Ladybug in a civil way : she sold all the heroes to the enemy to have the Comb and all the jewels. And was not remorseful
Her development was not thrown away: it is consistent with the idea she believes in, according to which some people deserve everything and other count nothing
Sounds like she needed someone on a smaller personal level. Someone willing to spend time with her but has a backbone to call out her behavior. Like Adrian should’ve been.
@@dariusbrown7870 Adrien tried with good manners and a small blackmail in Despair Bear and he was not strict enough. Chloe was rude and arrogant again after every time she did something slightly good. Her idol Ladybug too should have pointed her crap out all the times, not only in Queen Wasp
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT He needed to not only be considerate but also stern, and keep up with her more often to help her change. Redemption doesn’t come immediately and these things take time, and not everyone can change by themselves overnight. I’d expect by the beginning of season four he’d really try and hammer home that she needs to change but he didn’t. It seems too passive for someone you’ve known since childhood.
With Ladybug that’s fair enough. Not like she can take an on hand approach, she has other things to do.
@@dariusbrown7870 such as in Despair Bear he could say "I cannot be friend what person like this: people do not deserve this only because you like it, you must learn what respect is"
Or in Queen Banana: "you cared for power only, do you really think you will be valuable heroine? and you played with the movie disrespecting the plans and the time your changes needed"
Ladybug could scold this idiot sternly, pointing her faults actually rather than being so moved like in Zombizou
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT She can still scold her while still being moved by the good as the let’s say Chloe side leans on her worst tendencies which have a chance to put everything in jeopardy and the good reaffirms that she still has good in her, it just needs a way to come out not just in being a hero, but also in her everyday life.
Here are my solutions to both Chloe and Zoé
1.What if Chloe's true redemption arc started with her protecting her sister from what would basically be a clone of her S1 self. Seeing her sister one of the people she genuinely care for (Sabrina, Adrien, her butler, and dad) be builled by a clone of herself would make her want to better herself
2. Make Zoé a S1 version of Chloe for one episode, this would have probably been a good use of Zoé as well. Chloe has always been looking up to people but her sister would be the only one to look up to Chloe of Chloe saw how bad her or worse her sister was acting because of her influence/actions it would hit Chloe with a dose of reality self. And make her want to be a better role model for her.
This would show to Marinette/Ladybug Chloe isn't as bad as a person the creator wants be to think. And when a akuma goes after her sister Chloe would step in, maybe make Chloe beg alittle to help her sister or to let her use the bee miraculous "one last time" (the beg so Thomas can have his "fun") and the take jt from there. Thoughts?
‘I actually think I prefer Lila at this point.’
That’s saying a lot.
The saddest aspect about this episode is that it, together with Sole Crusher, effectively ended Chloe's chances of redemption. After Miracle Queen, I said to myself, "Okay, so Chloe is in a bad situation, but there's still a chance she can be reformed later." Nope. She has passed the point of no return with Queen Banana. I really want to like Zoe. But she has a major flaw: she is a Mary Sue. Her main distinguishing feature is "she's kinder than Chloe," and she's suddenly the appropriate person to use the Bee Miraculous.
Also I hate Zoe's voice
Same, her voice is really annoying
@@nobody_is_here3646 agree
She sounds too young to be a teenager.
Yeah i love zoe but the squeaky voice no not really I prefer the french dub voice actor for zoe
Chole had the better oufint then zoe
9:03 "Cat Noir has the worst luck I swear"
Yes, exactly. Don't you get it? Ladybugs are a symbol of good luck, while black cats are a symbol of bad luck. It's intended. It's also why Cat Noir gets hypnotized/captured by villains that can do that so often while it almost never happens to Ladybug. At least, that's my interpretation on why Cat Noir gets constantly screwed over.
Also at 9:26 I personally feel the opposite. Yes, having her almost lose but then just barely not seems like plot armor especially since you know she isn't gonna lose, however if they didn't do so, then she would seem like a Mary Sue, someone that never gets captured, unlike Cat Noir, and she always wins without effort. I feel like it's one or the other, and having her get captured and then saved by Cat Noir gives Cat Noir some more screen time/appreciation, so I definitely prefer this.
how is ladybird a symbol of goodluck
I have 4 black cats and they don’t give my family bad luck at all-
@@ariauora yeah I love black cat I just saw one yesterday he's very affectionate and his tail is very... Unique
@@noreenaddilla2343 I don’t know why people say black cats are bad luck. They are normal like other cats-
The problem with Chloe is that she thinks the world runs around her which is why she thinks is she can do what ever she wants especially with her dad not saying no to her demands. This episode really shows how much self-destructive she is being with her breaking her friendship with Adrien and pushing everyone around her. It might affect Sabrina eventually
I feel bad for Chloe... She is just a child.
@@nobody_is_here3646 thats the problem too in the fanndom we treat these characters as if they're adults when in reality they're teens still learning about life, while some of the things they do is understandable its still not excusable, I am looking at you Lila
@@shootingstarssel4182 yes that's right although they should still usne responsibility for example when marinette had stolen alya's phone (she did have a good intention but it was still wrong) she ended up telling alya and owning up to her mistakes. If chloe does that I might like her more
I wish it did as it would show a level of care from Chloe to push Sabrina away from herself and have her do everything Sabrina does for her herself as a sort of punishment she feels she deserves. She could push Sabrina away so she isn’t like her: truly alone. She could say to just join the rest of their class and hate her like the rest of them and say “You’re not even a real friend, you follow my orders without question and doing my stuff for me feels so fake! This all feels so fake!” “You’re a fake friend and you always will be! So just LEAVE ME ALONE!” (Man it feels good to write dialogue out of passion.) While I think Sabrina would try and stay, Chloe would try and push her away at every opportunity with a heavy emotion drive and treat her worse than anyone until she finally leaves her.
I find it weird that for all Ms Bustie believes in Chloe she’s never talked to her much in the show and that’s a shame, though I feel her separating from Sabrina could motivate Ms Bustie to talk to Chloe more and help her. This would probably change the Class President elections as Chloe wins and doesn’t know what to do with her position. She’s has the position but feels she doesn’t deserve it with the schemes she and Lila pulled and crumbles at what she’s done to get here.
She could still team with Lila feeling like she has no other option and no one else to turn to so the enact the same plan in season five.
Zoe would probably be the only one to comfort Chloe who would probably be having an emotional meltdown feeling like she’s caused everything wrong with Ladybug’s situation and has hurt Paris in a irreparable way. She feels that this is all her doing because of the ending season three. In tears she mumbles apologies to Ladybug and the other classmates she knows are heroes. I feel for someone like her and I feel that this is only one way that things would end. Change isn’t impossible for her it only matters when, and when it happens depending on when she changes the weight of her actions will probably crush her into a meltdown. If she needed to act in a more toxic manner than show it in a more realistic light where we already know she’s Queen Bee and not just Chloe. Queen Bee is her heroic side, and a manifest of her desire for true friends and adoration. Chloe is the emotionally damaged spoiled child that she doesn’t want everyone to see in her. And so she apologizes to Queen Bee too “Everyone loved Queen Bee, and I ruined her name too!” Now her heroic side, what she sees as her better side has been permanently tainted and she believes no one will ever truly love her at this point.
This could have a toll on Marionette and Adrian as they didn’t see this coming and thought she could never truly change and to see her at her lowest would probably make them think of all the times they could’ve helped her. As for who’d feel more guilty it would probably be Adrian as they’re childhood friends and he’d realize that putting their friendship on an ultimatum only hurt her chances of changing and made drop to this point on some level. Though let’s not get it twisted, Marianette would probably feel guilty remembering how she didn’t think to give Chloe a chance because she of her jealousy over Kagami. How her jealousy has possibly put them on the road to this path and how she’s partially to blame for all this. She tries to comfort Chloe but Chloe slaps her hand away saying she doesn’t deserve Marianette’s comfort or anyone’s for that matter and runs off hiding in the basement of the school. Everyone runs after her but loses sight of her and Ms Bustie fears for her safety if she has left the school.
Sabrina would feel like Chloe’s meltdown proves what she said, that’s she’s a fake friend who never supported her genuinely, and so she cries alone in the Classroom after everyone tries to find Chloe.
Lila is confused at all this and didn’t expect Chloe to be so emotionally unstable.
Zoe is the only one who’s followed Chloe and found her curled in the corner sobbing and saying how she doesn’t deserve anyone in her life. Zoe takes Chloe home after informing the others of her whereabouts and her condition where the episode ends leaving the main protagonists questioning their actions in both a grounded interpersonal and large scale way.
I think an episode where they deal with this fallout would’ve been better than the episode of Chloe being Mayor of Paris.
(Goodness, I’ve driven myself to tears.) I did not expect to have this much to say on the character in all honesty.
I have to say Chloe had the potential to be one of the best written characters in children’s TV history with a believable arc of either redemption, meltdown, being an anti hero planning on sabotaging both sides both from within on the villain’s end and defeating the heroes from a distance, or just joining the villains knowing she’s a pawn but believes she deserves nothing better with someone like Felix possibly showing her a way out.
Lmao don't blame chloe y'all blame thomas he wants us to hate her 😭😭
We can't do anything. Chloe testing sabrina like trash is still chloe. She's been doing that since their grade school. Chloe trying to mene the movie all about her is still the chloe we had before. In her class report she made it about her self (I wish we could have seen adrien's report. He'd be rambling). This is all chloe. Chloe was nice at times but then changed back to her old self the very next day
She didn't really change
Actual development and growth is the one we see in season 4 for marinette. We see her at her lowest points and then becoming more calm and changing strategy. If Thomas made her back to the her she was Inc season 1 then I wouldn't accept it but chloe was always mean
@@samanrais4006 blame Thomas
@@amitystan why should i? Chloe said sorry a few times and changed for others once or twice but went back to her old self. The point with chloe being nice wasn't that she was going to have a redemption, it was to show that chloe had a chance but choosed not to take it.
@@samanrais4006 dude, stop blaming Chloe, blame Thomas instead, his childly tantrums against Chloe for an unknown reason made Chloe a bitch from season 3 to four, he wants everyone to hate Chloe, creating a Mary Sue character named Zoe, and Zoe isn’t important or interesting for the lore, her only role is to be a Mary Sue and a better person than Chloe
How absurd Ladybug's plan was? Pouring glue into Queen Banana's holster... there was no reason for her to put her "gun" away yet, after shooting at Vesperia... she still had to fight LB and CN...
Frankly this episode rly sheds some light on how Chloe was actually beyond saving, with the banana theme and all implying that she's gone bananas and she's too far gone to even change for the better
And who's fault is that?
@@yourlocalchloesimp Thomas astruc
@@miho3719 That's not what I was going for, but that works too.
@@yourlocalchloesimp ask Thomas Astruc urself
@@yourlocalchloesimp who do you think?
André Bourgeois? But given his backstory in Sole Crusher he was forced in a life he didn't want by an abusive wife.
Zoe? She clearly had nothing to do with how Chloe let that narcissism of hers go too far since obviously she just arrived in Paris a month before the events of Queen Banana
Who do you think is responsible for Chloe being a flop of a superhero then?
I think instead of you asking me the question like you're baiting it, you can at least try to think about it on your own.
Sorry but you are 100% wrong. Chloé is going to get a redemption arc and I have proof of that. In guilttrip at the end Rose is joking around with most of the class except for Chloé and Lila.( because it was revealed Rose has a sickness) this happens:
Chloé: Hey! Whenever I do that no one laughs!
Adrien: Because when you do that it’s always serious.
Chloé: that’s true. Humpf!
Rose: never ever change.
So something happens between the end of episodes 8 and the start of episode 11.
Chloé has to be brought to the absolute breaking point. In either episode 9 or 10 she’s going to lose Sabrina completely. And due to the charm Hawkmoth won’t be able to interfere. This will force Chloé to have a reflection on herself. After all if you want to change someone you need to take away their foundation. Class representative check! Her idol ladybug( miracle Queen) check. Adrien a childhood friend check! Her father CHECK! Sabrina last one standing.
Watch for Sabrina’s betrayal to Chloé it’s going to harsh.
I don't think that's going to happen. We could see her laughing at her mother's insult and then trying to sacrifice zoe for herself in optigami. but your idea can happen though. :)
You don't know that Thomas never confirmed so the probability of it happening is not certain
@@pritigoyal8778
every fans seems to forget one key important thing which is Time.
Get this at the end of season 3 Chloe lost Ladybug. that betrayal had to hurt. ( she never had Sabrina from the start of season 3 as seen in the New York Special where Sabrina went against Chloe. which is cannon) then she lost her childhood friend( Adrien in Queen banana as well as her father) Something is coming in either episode 9( gabreil ageste or episode 10 Megaleech where chloe will have to take a self reflections.
this is going to be the key time. Expect her to be testing the waters to see the reactions before she truly decides. ( that's why we saw her making fun of herself in guilttrip and her being the old chloe in optigami)
I still think she's going to be the one to defeat Akumitized Marinette.
@@eddog6666 she never lost sabrina. She still treats her like her servant. I respect your opinion, but i dont think she is ever going to change. Chloe is one cruel fact of life that states that some people dont change and dont even make an effort.
@@pritigoyal8778
There is away to get people to change. a Disaster. remember the image of a destroyed Paris? everyone though it might be an Awakening spoiler. but what if that image was the season 4 Mega Final episode 22-26 aka epispode 100-104.
Maybe Akumitized Marinette is targeting all the liers in Paris and gets Chloe's family.
we have seen chloe frighten of thought of not being able to save her parents aka Miracle Queen. and she doesn't show it but she does care about Sabrina if she didn't Chloe would have left her to getting akumitized in the ladybug episode.
I say Chloe is going to lose her friend Sabrina and her parents which will push her into a rockbottom breakdown. and it seems the staff is doing Betrayal theme episodes and target chloe alot i can seen her being out of sorts. living through a disaster would be horrifying. and i think we can all agree that Akumitized marinette is a MEGA DISASTER.
I wasn't a huge chloe fan because the writers (especially in the beginning of the series) did a great job of making chloe someone you'd naturally dislike, however overtime as she started to grow with her time as queen bee I started to like her more and more because of how much character development the creators were giving her, like she was the first person to reject an akuma when hawkmoth first asked her to join him because she was starting to grow from a person who depended on others to someone who was being depended on by others and I really started to get invested in her and I loved how she got to shine on miraculer and villians day where she fought alongside ladybug,catnoir,rina rouge and carapace and rejected both hawkmoth and mayura multiple times in favor of ladybug's trust ( even though she immediately revealed her identity upon getting/finding the bee miraculous) she was still rough around the edges but it looked like she was really growing as a character which is why it really broke my heart when they decided to just drop and replace her. At first I saw miracle queen as a message that chloe is just going to be a harder character to redeem because of how thick headed she is but then they just up and replaced her with zoe dropping her character completely as now she's reverted back to her season 1 self with no development at all she's even treating sabrina worse than she's ever treated her and sabrina seems to lost all of her development as well as she's suddenly completely fine with her abuse again. If all of this is intentional for later use I have a theory that there will be a point where chloe will have the bee miraculous in her grasp again and will once again be put in a situation where hawkmoth is depending on her but instead of rejecting him again and using the bee miraculous herself she'll reject him and give the miraculous to zoe encouraging her to fight as her big redemption point. This I believe would mean more for chloe's character because not only would it be her finally letting go of her hate wanting to make up for her actions but it would make it so that chloe is basically saying that zoe is a better fit for the bee miraculous which would show her growth as she's always saying that she's always the one true queen bee.
She's even worse than how she behaved in season 1.
I’d at least support Chloe pushing others away from her like Sabrina because they can’t have a backbone to save their lives and she knows this. She knows who she is and where she is and doesn’t want Sabrina to end up alone like her in the end of her own free will. I’d support a downward spiral arc, an Anti hero arc, a Villain arc, and a Redemption arc because this character feels nuanced enough that all are possible. They just chose to keep her the same while making her actions worse. Chloe could’ve been a constant good thing, a sign that not matter how fillery the show is things are constantly changing and the writers weren’t gonna settle for anything less than their best.
Queen bee and Chloe are one in the same like Chat Noir and Adrian. I wish the writers would acknowledge this. Queen bee is a manifestation of her desire for love and companionship inspired by ladybug. Chloe is an emotionally neglected child who’s father substituted real love and affection for material things and as such she became unhappy as she had the world in the palm of her hand but she knew she was missing something something she found in old simple items and her friend Sabrina, simple emotional care. Though this was not without its flaws as Sabrina is someone who’s probably a lot like Chloe, an isolated child who gravitated towards the other lone child in the group. Her need for Chloe probably manifested as a fear of if Chloe leaves her she’ll end up alone. This is not helped by no one in her class trying to be her friend because she’s friends with Chloe and as such she doesn’t care what Chloe does to her as she’s the only friend she has and she can’t risk losing her. Despite the butler’s best efforts a teddy bear cannot fix all emotional woes. It’s a band aid to a symptom of the problem.
If I had to guess on the Father’s side his wife leaving for New York for a majority of his child’s life while trying to manage his hotel probably made a mark on him as he had to give up on his dreams of filmmaking to try and raise Chloe. Even though he dropped his hobby he still had little time on his hands as he’s managing a hotel so he has little time to spend with his daughter leaving her showered in gifts and items. I wonder why Chloe’s father got into politics and if I had to guess it would probably be for his daughter to make sure she has the best experience with the world outside their home. I think Chloe’s outside world wasn’t kind to her at first as she sees others having, despite it all, the one thing she truly wants. She becomes friends with Sabrina down the line and the rest is history.
Though now I wonder if things properly turned out would Ms Bustie be a sort of surrogate figure for her later in the series? I see it as a likely possibility. Chloe finding comfort in those her give her a chance and those who are true friends willing to call her out and help her change for the better would truly be a beautiful thing to see in a children’s show and give a light on the struggles of those who hurt others not out of a will to hurt other for their own enjoyment but those who haven’t had proper friends and family to teach them how they can be the best versions of themselves.
Oh goodness.
I guess I went a bit overboard.
Who knows what kind of pain Chloe’s father must’ve been feeling when his wife first left. Plus he knew of his half daughter this whole time which makes this worse. This whole Family is a tragedy all caused by the mother’s ego and infidelity. Speaking of which I wonder if Chloe’s mother having been with another partner hurt her in some way. Having a half sibling come in as proof your mother doesn’t care about you must hurt, but I wonder if it’s anything else that bothers her.
Even when trying to make her look bad Astruc manages to make Chloe even more sympathetic by unintentionally making her mother a worse person with Zoe’s existence.
I love the episode but I don't like Zoe's suit and it doesn't look like a bee it looks like a wasp
because Vesperia is a wasp🤦
Yeah but she as the bee miraculous
Plus I don't like her voice either she sounds ridiculous and I thought Rose's voice was annoying
@@miho3719 i like her voice in the French dub
"A famous film director." Famous in the same way as Michael Bay, M. Night Shyamalan, Ed Wood, Raja Gosnell, and Uwe Boll, maybe.
Really wish that the creators would have given Chloe much bigger role than just being a villain cuz no one is born evil there must be a reason of why she's so mean
They even covered why Chloe is mean in season 2 but are ignoring it.
Or at have her be a better villain. Either by being someone who feels they have no where else to turn, or as a double agent fighting for the villains till she sees the opportunity to betray them for the glory of being the one to defeat one of the biggest terrorists France has ever seen.
I'm thinking the banana theme is because they are yellow and Chloe is trying to recreate her Queen Bee outfit. She isn't very smart and couldn't come up with anything good. But she is also endlessly stubborn so she ran with what she had. The show could have said that though. A line from Marinette to the kwamis, Chloe having a shrine to herself as Queen Bee, this could have been communicated, and it would have made us gloriously sad for Chloe. But they didn't, so we aren't.
If she has anything determination is one of them.
They made Zoe so they can throw Chloe's redemption in the trash can. And there's nothing interesting about Zoe, she's just... nice... too nice, but Chloe's not in the first place and she TRIED and LEARN to be nice. Everyone loves nice people and just easily accepts Zoe. Meanwhile, Marinette who just knew her for 2 days, gave her the Bee Miraculous, she's giving miraculous away like candy.
Who do you think plays the Daddy card better, Draco Malfoy or Chloe?
And who does in the more tearjerker *ball-crashing* crying when things go badly for him/her, keeping by the way no respect for anyone else?
Zoe exists so they don't have to redeem Chloe, and so they can show WHY Chloe will never be redeemed.
I wish they'd just given Zoe a different personality. Something more in line with Kagami than Marinette, but if Kagami was more of a people person but also a little meaner. Strict and desperate to prove herself, a little mean but it's clear it's a defense mechanism as she always looks sad or surprised when her words hurt, better at communicating her positive emotions than Kagami is but like Kagami, has difficulty standing up to her family. Basically make her what Chloe might've been if Astruc didn't loathe her.
I think something that really bothers me is how Chloe knows nobody likes her, nor does anyone fear her. Everyone hates her and she has no friends, nor is anyone remotely threatened by her. Which makes her absolutely fail as a "mean girl", because the "mean girl" in every other media is either popular despite it because she's pretty and good at something people like, or is greatly feared. Chloe has none of that- her character design is actually kind of uncanny for the most part imo, so I can't even say she's got the "pretty" thing down all the time. The only "mean girl" trope she has going for her is she's rich and a daddy's girl which are always related things.
I want Chloe to be redeemed so badly. Show little kids that mean classmates CAN change.
The only friends she has is someone who won’t stand up to her most likely out of a fear of losing their only friend, and someone not even willing to actively spend time with her in spite of threatening that their friendship is over if she doesn’t overcome her flaws on her own.
The one good thing about Chloe is her banana outfit. I don't know why she just looks better in that than her actual outfit.
Who thinks that Chloe needs discipline from her parents? Her mother should love her, not neglect her and become a better person but her father should set rules and punish her for such misbehaviour. She deserves a solid grounding for a good few weeks and needs therapy! Come on, parent, don't just let your kid walk all over you and beat up her sister! Support your stepdaughter and discipline that brat, she needs to be out in her place and know that her father is a figure of authority, not someone to just fulfill her every bratty demand! Who agrees Chloe needs discipline and yet, Zoe needs more love and freedom and is the better sister?
Honestly Vesperia’s costume looks like a wasp not to be
Seeing Astruc in this episode is like insult to the injury or him destroying Chloe’s potential
no no no no no lila is ten times worse then chloe
Oh and with how many people keep getting charms... I can imagine hawkmoth might just try to akumatize himself again, so ladybug would give HIM one too, maybe to find a way to get PAST their effects.
the reason why Sabrina gives chloe a banana its logical irl. bananas can calm a person and give them a relaxation mood. if you don't believe me then go search on the internet and you'll find your answer
Huh no wonder I always feel relaxed when I eat them at school
Chloe's character is the magnum opus of Astruc as an incompetent writer, letting petty reasons get in the way of literally the ONLY character with a proper character arc, being seen through. Its clear that season 3 marked his mission to utterly ruin her by keeping her attitude the same, while the other writers desperately try and sneak in the genuine moments they could have had if they were allowed to write well, just to make up for Astruc leading her character down to the pits
Chloe never had a character ark and before you say she did this in x episode it was only to get out of a problem or being forced to see what she did all of this for her to “talk” to her mother and still act the same afterwards. Not every character deserves/needs development. I actually like it better that she’s a neutral character cause it makes sense! Years of traumas and neglect don’t easily get wiped from anyone once they get powers in fact it just made her want to be the center of attention to get said attention from her mom who clearly doesn’t care about her or anyone else so what does Chloe do? Follows after her mom and not caring about anyone to get her way.