Excellent presentation from Dr Tabor. I was actually quite convinced by Mark Goodacre's presentation of the Farrier hypothesis about a month ago, but now I'm swinging the other way. I'd love to hear Tabor and Goodacre discussing this directly.
48:40 Mark 16:8 I've heard a number of scholars say that this is where Mark originally ended and that what came after was added later. I'm not doubting that. But how do we know that? What's the evidence for that? If I were talking to a non-scholarly Christian they would likely doubt me. I'd need to be able to point them towards evidence.
This might help your research: "[the long ending] is a general summary of the material concerning the appearances of the risen Jesus, reflecting, in particular, traditions found in Lk 24 and Jn 20."
I think it's acknowledged by some church Father's. We have reliable ancient manuscripts that show no long ending or a different ending. And narratively it seems tacked on. I think this are the indicators you will hear.
We know this because the earliest manuscripts don't contain those verses. Another example of this is the story in John of the paralyzed man at the pool where an angel would stir the water and people would go in to be healed.
At 58:41 there's a comment about how codex doesn't come before late 3rd/early 4th century but what about P52? "Containing part of the Gospel of John, P52 dates to the early second century. Most experts regard the fragments of P52 as the oldest extant canonical Christian text. On the front appears John 18:31-33 with 18:37-38 on the back, in which Pilate questions Jesus before the crucifixion. Written in Greek, this fragment came from a codex-not a scroll. Discovered in Egypt, P52 was published in 1935 and is housed in the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England. (Its full name is John Rylands Papyrus P52, with the acquisition number John Rylands Greek 457.) The fragment measures 3.4 by 2.5 inches. Authorities Kurt and Barbara Aland date the fragment to “about 125” A.D., allowing for a margin of error of 25 years on either side. However, other scholars prefer to give P52 a more conservative date of 140 A.D."
The presentation overall was quite good. I'm perplexed that Dr. Tabor mentions that Matthew somehow had a later version of Q. Matthew is quite happy to reword his sources to fit his goals and theology, as Dr. Tabor discusses at length here. So why this remark that implies that Matthew and Luke were slavishly following their sources, while their sources had absolute freedom to make up anything? This seems to be the assumption of many of the professionals in this field, but all of the evidence is to the contrary.
I recently heard the idea that Q was simply an expanded version of Mark with extra dialogue added and that both Matthew and Luke used this expanded version of Mark. Therefore Q probably dates to the 80s or later. The key argument for this was that the Q material is sufficiently tightly integrated into Mark in such a way that Matthew and Luke are extremely unlikely to have independently integrated Q material into Mark in the same way. It also is based on the idea that some of the Q material is clearly based on or reacting to stories that are clearly the fictional invention of Mark. Therefore if they are reacting to Mark they must be post Mark. I haven’t carefully reviewed the evidence for this theory, but the reasoning makes a lot of sense. It is similar to the Farrer hypothesis but has some additional explanatory power that seems to make more sense than the idea that Luke used Matthew. Jacob, it would be nice if you could ask some of the experts on your show what they think about this idea of Q as expanded Mark.
One good thing about Kermit Zarley is that he's not a trinitarian. Good for him. Seeing that the trinity is not in the text was the start of my 'wisdom.' The whole house-that-dogma-built came crashing down a few years later.
Besides the Yom Kippur war, James Tabor could have mentioned the Tet Offensive when the Viet Cong penetrated the US embassy in Saigon - according to the Vietnam tourism bureau, "during [the week of Tet] families reunite and honour their ancestors, while praying for luck, prosperity and health in the new year."
If you closely examine Qvelle (‘source’ in German) aka ‘Q’ (c. 196 sayings of Jesus common to ‘Matthew’ & ‘Luke’ [whoever they were] but curiously absent in ‘Mark’ -whoever he was - about 1/2 of the Greek words plac’d into the mouth of a ‘Greek-speaking Jesus’ in Q are very close linguistically in terms of word for word in exact repetition in Greek (Gk-Q) and roughly the other half of the sayings collection seem to be independent translations from Aramaic into Greek (Aram-Q) such as the mess we find in Matthew 11:12-13 & Luke 16:16 (‘the Torah & the testimony of the prophets was taught amidst a background of violence from the days of John the Baptist until this day- but now when the Kingdom of David is being proclaim’d men of violence have bored their way into it & now have taken it over by force !’) seems to be what the Aramaic underlay is trying to say (without alerting the Roman authorities) - but we must always separate Q-Gk from Q-Aram if we are to discuss these 196 overlap sayings intelligently - ‘Mark’ may once have been much longer and contain’d parts of Q (‘Ur-Markus) but for some reason (like Luke’s Great Omission of Mark ch 5, 6 & 7 in a single 8-sided papyrus folio text) may indicate that pieces of ‘Mark’ had fallen out of the earliest & therefore most worn & damag’d hand written copies …
@@rochesterjohnny7555 / you raise a very valid point / for example the Nazis destroy’d ALL traces of the ‘holocaust ovens’ (zero were ever found) and gas-chambers (zero were ever found) - ‘so call’d (ahem) eyewitnesses’ to the holocaust (some old blurry BW photos which shewing a pile of naked dead white people stack’d on top of each other that turn’d out to be moribund (‘ill’) patients, murderers, old people, the mentally disabled, homosexuals & ‘gypsies’ & ‘politicals and not evidence of holocausted Jews’ -even tho’ there were a few Jews in the stack of dead bodies were part of those falling into several of those categories (especially ‘politicals’ i.e. Marxist Communists’ which Adolf Hitler (‘Dolphy’) call’d ‘Jews’ because Karl Marx was an (atheist) Jew… Any ‘examples of Nazi gas chambers & ovens are ‘historical reconstructions of what they MUST (!) have look’d like bas’d on the memories of ‘survivors’ etc So yes does that mean the holocaust of murders, rapists, old people, fat people, disabl’d, mentally retarded, sexual defectives, homosexuals & Jews never happen’d ? By no means !! You don’t always have to have an archaeological hard-example to examine to draw real conclusions from the evidence / in this case Qvelle falls into two broad categories for the c. 196 verses in question - those that match nearly word for word between these c. 196 sayings in ‘Matthew’ (whoever he was…) & ‘Luke’ (whoever he was…) = Qvelle Gk Then there are about 45% of the rest that are not very close but seem like independent renderings from the Aramaic into koine Greek = Qvelle-Aram; So a close reading of ‘Qvelle’ does seem to indicate at least two separate sources - In chapter 1:1-2 ‘Luke’ informs ‘His Excellency Theophilos’ (whoever he was) that : ‘since many persons have taken it into their heads to write accounts of what has been done among us including both eyewitnesses & preachers of the word, it seem’d a good idea for me too to compile an ‘orderly account’ of what we stand for so that you might have an inkling of the truth of these things…’ And it seems that chapters 1,2 and other large portions of his gospel are bas’d on Aramaic hagaddic midrashic legendary expansions of ‘messianic prophecies’-whilst other sources seem to have been in Greek (e.g. the ‘Sayings Gospel of Thomas’ which seems to be an exemplar of what Qvelle may well have resembl’d in the form of a ‘sayings gospel’ but remember Carl Sagan’s favourite dictum : ‘absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence’ so serious modern biblical researchers have to isolate Qvelle & compare the c. 196 sayings very very very closely in order to draw what is call’d ‘inferences’ … Have you isolated the c.196 sayings yet? Can you speak, read & write Hebrew, Coptic, Ethiopic Ge’z, koine Greek & Aramaic to make value judgements about the material at hand that has surviv’d in so many mangl’d Greek & Coptic hand written MSS ? If you are not conversant in these original source materials, how on earth can you pontificate on the existence/non existence of Qvelle as a document or even as half-documents & half oral sources ?
25:50 I'm no expert so my generalization may not be entirely accurate. But it seems Matthew tends to elaborate and expand compared to Luke. If we were to look at that and ask the question which came first, the short version of the longer, I'd lean in favor of the short coming first. The reason is that it seems like if a message resonated with the with a congregation, or new converts, then there would be a tendency to want to expand on that portion, since it's successful. If people like something, you want to give them more of it. What do you think? Am I on to something here? edit - 35:30 Well, we just had 2 examples of Luke being longer than Matthew. So I guess my generalization is not true. Nonetheless, can we draw a conclusion about the possible priority of one of these, Matthew or Luke, over the other, based on how the common material is handled? If we can then Q would not be needed. The common material would be sourced to whichever, Matthew or Luke, came first.
28:22 Expanding on that. If Matthew came after Luke and embellished Luke, then isn't it possible that Q didn't exist? The material described as Q would simply be more L.
Interesting that there exists a university of Jerusalem school on the NT. I know they do a lot of good scholarship with the Hebrew Bible but never thought they did much study of the new testament.
I thought it was general knowledge among biblical scholars that the "gospels", Book of Acts, Romans, several letters of "Paul", and Revelation, were all written by the Pisos Flavian family of Rome. Their names are numerologically encoded in the texts.
Your life's work is going down in history among scholars and Christians...just so you know. I teach my sons information from your studies frequently and I'm Christian. Truth seekers fear no critical analysis, because truth is king and the truth will set you free (redemption). Some dude said that once a couple thou ago.
How would you explain Jerome and others that mentioned there being a Hebrew version of Matthew that was kept at Cesarea ? It was supposed to have been the original and the Greek version was translated from it , as well as Luke using it to make his Gospel . The Ebionites would have been using this Hebrew version and they also didn't have a problem with Luke's Gospel , probably because it borrowed from their Hebrew Matthew . Apparently this original Hebrew Matthew didn't have the genealogy or the virgin birth account
We have around 94 stories about Iesous and only 4 made it into one story collection we call new testament. So we have at least 90 texts or about 95% of texts by Christians for Christians considered as fraud. So how do we know that 5% that made it into the New Testament aren't fraut? The answer is we do not know.
It is amazing that the writer of Luke and the writer of Matthew both value Mark enough to include so much of it, yet they have they dare to cut some parts out and add some points in. Did they value Mark because of who they think wrote it, or because it was so wide spread by their time. Did they change things readily because they thought their works would replace Mark?
They don't, they both consider Mark crap and so they correct it and fill in their theology. They do not care at all for Mark they are just too lazy or inept to formulate it freely as John who used all three and made his fictional story sound a bit different.
Jacob, IMO, the nerdy mormon guy , ( I will call him NMG) .....quietly demolishes "Markan Priority". He focuses on the well-known event-order phenomenon of the synoptics. - for his argument in a nutshell, see time hack 5:37 of th-cam.com/video/L6iBtu9FQCw/w-d-xo.html... 1. In ALL passages where Matthew departs from markan event-order , Luke's do not AND VICE VERSA. 2.where Matthew and Luke agree on event-order, Mark ALWAYS agrees. NMG simply points out that these phenomena are exactly what would be predicted if Mark was using scrolls of both Matthew and Luke and had to choose between event-orders when the latter two deviated from one another..... Mark certainly displays's what criminal investigators would term 'guilty knowledge'. i e there is no way that Mark could have internalized or mimicked BOTH Luke and Mathew's orders unless Mark wrote third. Tabor's Markan priority cannot explain this event-order anomaly other than to say that if Mark came first then Matthew and Luke performed an INEXPLICABLE delicate dance where if one deviated from Mark's event-order then the other would make sure to snap back to it....each necessarily being aware of how the other had treated Mark. Yhis is a choreography that at the very least makes the Q theory impossible because , in Q, neither Evangelist Luke nor Matthew was supposed to know the others Work. Mark is like the kid who sits between the valedictorian and salutatorian and whose test answers ALWAYS match either his classmate sitting on his left or else the one on his right and never has an original answer. of his own. NTL Tabor's Q is what most modern scholars accept these days without question or even the least bit of curiosity. you really should invite that Nerdy Mormon Guy on to discuss Markan priority...(but please dont ask him about planet Kolob or I'll boycott that one😀)😂
Listen to proponents of early gospel writings before you conclude. If Paul dies mid 60s and Luke writes about him and never mentions his death means he wrote before his death surely The mentipn of destruction of temple in yerusalem was written before it happened so before 70AD. So mark matthew luke acts before 70AD
@carefullychristian8657 We dont have any copy of anything before late in the second century so make it up however you like. Non of your arguments means anything. I read tons of american books written after 9/11 and non mentioned it. So we have no clue when they anonymous fan fiction about a dead arameic preacher was produced in greek. This is greek-roman literature. I
@@TorianTammas This is a nonsense response. Lots of books don't mention 9/11 because they are not relevant to the subject matter. However, the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70AD is extremely relevant to the subject matter of the New Testament documents. The fact that it isn't mentioned in any of them requires explanation, not a lazy dismissal. Yet I wouldn't expect much else from someone who describes the New Testament documents as "fan fiction." This demonstrates your deep ignorance about the genre of these various and numerous texts and provides no explanation for the origins of Christianity with its very distinctive claims.
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Son of Man is lord of sabbath = Roman Emperor is greater than your local divinity.
Matthew has Jesus Resurrection" from the cross ??? Lol, which contradicts marks rising from the tomb account???.. show you the credibility of the Gospels!!!
These synoptics discussions are somewhat interesting. However, I've never seen a discussion about how and why the Holy Spirit inspired these gospels to be written in the words they were. Scholastic thinking seems to discount the Holy Spirit's influence on the gospel accounts. Harmonizing seems, to me, the better approach for Christians. What do the three accounts say, as a whole, about a certain event or teaching?
We have either exact copies, we have before and later copied text but changed events, and a lot of times the event was not invented and is so missing in other texts.
@@TorianTammas considering all textual variations and traditions, I cannot think of anything that would change the spiritual realities of the doctrines taught therein. Amazing! In the end, I'm glad the critics spent so much time, study, debate and effort affirming my faith in the unity and perfection of the Holy Spirit's message of Christ in God!
@@studiodemichel Did no one tell you of the 150 years of utter silence where we have nothing? So anyone could have produced, altered, and modified that stuff. We have 94 anonymous fan fiction accounts in Greek. Christians used all 94 and then other Christians decided 90 are false and 4 are not based on everyone can be fantasy. So it is Greek-roman literature that is influenced by Homer, Vergil, and Eusebius. Personally, I do not care why people do not get it that it is fan fiction like every religious text. Time to grow up so you can believe what you want and need no one to allow it to you.
@@studiodemichel You can belief what you want. Fact is we have 150 years of utter silence in which no text exists. We have then scrabs and nobody knows what these anonymous grrek roman literature holds. Itvshows clear signs of a literary tradition that incorporates greek philosophy, Homer, Vergil and even Josephus. So it is a greek product in which a dead arameic preacher is mentioned. What exists beyond the 94 stories is up for imagination. Yes you know only ablut 4 stories as others do not trust you and your judgement. They prefer to keep you in the darkness of gheir prison build by their opinions.
@@TorianTammas AND...you can "belief" what you want, as well. There is no ancient literature with more attestation and witness in the world. Your theory of the New Testament as being Greco-Roman propaganda flies in the face of evidence. Bottom line, for me, is that there is no adequate explanation for the existence of this universe than it being a designed thing. You can see that in something so simple as a blade of grass or in cell structure. I'm sure that I'm not the blind one.
39:53. I never got this argument. In the Hebrew Bible David is far from a role model, by the contrary, he was a murderous adeulterer, that happened to be chosen by God.
David was never meant as a role model for American suburbian soccer mom and in a cubicle working dad. This is a story for a long-dead culture in a foreign language.
The Real, Hebrew, Son Of God, was a bilingual, person, a dark skin man, with a very, strong Spiritual ity. The Romans shifted, His personality, and disposition, to , Pagan Jesus.
Cornelius is the common denominator of the four Gospels and Acts. The Gospels are structurally harmonized by the Cross and a feature of the critical historic analysis of the Post Modern Historic Deconstruction is to de-harmonize the individual Gospels in the forensic processes of this method of inquiry. In the resulting de-harmonized Gospel, Jesus remains the singular Figure of the Historic Gestalt in the particular Field of sociology and anthropology of the particular perspective and context of each Gospel. The sin of harmonization only occurs when moving from the critical historic method of the dialectical Marxism of the Bart Ehrman/Jesus seminar to the critical literary method of Hegel's dialectical synthesis. In regards to the Post Modern Historic Deconstruction of the 60s Cultural Warriors, the difference between Jimmy Tabor's version of Paul's theology and N.T.. Wright's version of Paul's theology is the difference between the dialectic Marxism of John Dominic Crossan that obviates the Christology of the Gospels and dialectical Idealism. of Wright which is suffused with the unalloyed Christology of Jesus.. pure and uncorrupted. The de-harmonization of the critical historic method violates the 4th law of Logic: You cannot reduce a paradox. Dialectical Marxism compels Paradox to be devolved to dilemma and a decision be made in favor of one of the horns. That captures perfectly the product of the Jesus Seminar.
Everything that came after Yehoshua the teacher of what is called the Matthew gospel is of the false christ created after the gospel, after the good news preached in the gospel, that christ is false, a deception its name jesus and its cross never happened except in the man of sins lying epistles, the writings of Paul of tarsus and the rest of the ones who come in the name if jesus and not in the name of God alone as all true lost sheep will. We serve God alone not any christ! I know God, I walk in covenant with God and I Love God. I fear God as well and that is the beginning of Love because until you fear disobeying God and causing God to look upon you in shame so you feel horrible then you can not love Him. I started this walk when I was 32, to look for God. I started to actually begin to find God when I was 39 and sealed myself to God as the gospel tells us to, those of us who listen to the gospel teacher and not the ones who came after him, know to take up the commandments of God and to seek out our roots back to Abraham and to Moses and Yehoshua and the prophets so we become firm in knowledge of what GOD ALONE asked of us. It took me several years of fighting sin and the devil by obeying God. I fought the sin out of me with God's help, by his instructions in the written word. It is a very narrow road and as the mattan/Matthew gospel says very few will find it. We have to fight Satan and the whole world that serves him in sin in order to get out and the one who will help is God alone because we can't trust anyone else. I am with God, God provides for myself and my family and yes there is absolutely evidence BUT not until you absolutely come clean, in thought, word and deed, the absolute opposite of all the lying religions. The gospel was sent down to free us from sin by sending us to our teacher and if you reject it then you are freed from God into sin perpetually and to death spiritually from God which as I can now see is absolutely hell on earth, your light you pretend to have is absolutely darkness caused by your unwillingness to even try to obey God. I speak to 99% of the population. If you can't put everyone first after God and stop yourself from all sin THEN YOUR NOT WORTHY AND YOU ARE ALREADY FINISHED BEFORE YOU EVEN STARTED. So come out of all sun, take up the commandments and begin your battle, call to GOD ALONE, LEARN YOUR ROOTS, BE GOD'S PEOPLE. FIGHT SATAN WHO IS THE SINNERS INNER VOICE, THE CONSCIENCE THAT LEADS YOU TO HURT YOU, that's not you, it's Satan the deceiver. If you come to God and pass the trials cleansing yourself by obedience then GOD WILL BECOME YOUR CONSCIENCE AND YOU WILL LOVE GOD AND HATE SIN, SATAN WILL FLEE FROM YOU. SO there it is. Peace, the ball in in your court Be wary of this world, it is the valley of death, you need God's light and God doesn't dwell with sin or sinners. Not until they begin the journey to stop sin.
But you speak like Gospels are stand alone. Clearly jesus Apostles and paul all show that tsnakh ecpkains the NT thats why there are over 300 direct or not quites from OT. so guys linked them in a smart way if its not inspiratio
Everything that came after Yehoshua the teacher of what is called the Matthew gospel is of the false christ created after the gospel, after the good news preached in the gospel, that christ is false, a deception its name jesus and its cross never happened except in the man of sins lying epistles, the writings of Paul of tarsus and the rest of the ones who come in the name if jesus and not in the name of God alone as all true lost sheep will. We serve God alone not any christ! I know God, I walk in covenant with God and I Love God. I fear God as well and that is the beginning of Love because until you fear disobeying God and causing God to look upon you in shame so you feel horrible then you can not love Him. I started this walk when I was 32, to look for God. I started to actually begin to find God when I was 39 and sealed myself to God as the gospel tells us to, those of us who listen to the gospel teacher and not the ones who came after him, know to take up the commandments of God and to seek out our roots back to Abraham and to Moses and Yehoshua and the prophets so we become firm in knowledge of what GOD ALONE asked of us. It took me several years of fighting sin and the devil by obeying God. I fought the sin out of me with God's help, by his instructions in the written word. It is a very narrow road and as the mattan/Matthew gospel says very few will find it. We have to fight Satan and the whole world that serves him in sin in order to get out and the one who will help is God alone because we can't trust anyone else. I am with God, God provides for myself and my family and yes there is absolutely evidence BUT not until you absolutely come clean, in thought, word and deed, the absolute opposite of all the lying religions. The gospel was sent down to free us from sin by sending us to our teacher and if you reject it then you are freed from God into sin perpetually and to death spiritually from God which as I can now see is absolutely hell on earth, your light you pretend to have is absolutely darkness caused by your unwillingness to even try to obey God. I speak to 99% of the population. If you can't put everyone first after God and stop yourself from all sin THEN YOUR NOT WORTHY AND YOU ARE ALREADY FINISHED BEFORE YOU EVEN STARTED. So come out of all sun, take up the commandments and begin your battle, call to GOD ALONE, LEARN YOUR ROOTS, BE GOD'S PEOPLE. FIGHT SATAN WHO IS THE SINNERS INNER VOICE, THE CONSCIENCE THAT LEADS YOU TO HURT YOU, that's not you, it's Satan the deceiver. If you come to God and pass the trials cleansing yourself by obedience then GOD WILL BECOME YOUR CONSCIENCE AND YOU WILL LOVE GOD AND HATE SIN, SATAN WILL FLEE FROM YOU. SO there it is. Peace, the ball in in your court Be wary of this world, it is the valley of death, you need God's light and God doesn't dwell with sin or sinners. Not until they begin the journey to stop sin. 23 “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. 25 See, I have warned you about this ahead of time. 26 “So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it! Know, therefore, that only your God יהוה is God, the steadfast God who keeps the divine covenant faithfully to the thousandth generation of those who love [God] and keep the divine commandments, www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.7.9 MATHEW gospel Joshua(not jesus) told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many. They made up the jesus idol based on the true teacher in the matthew gospel, the quick note left for the lost sheep of Isra'el, like myself and probably most of those they falsely labeled noachides. We who want to obey God must but all religions tell us not to or we cannot obey our God. See deuteronomy chapter 30, that is how we wake up out here.
@TorianTammas no,sorry, the gospel teacher is Yehoshua/Isa and the fake man god the weed that came after is iasous/jesus. Yehoshua taught me, a lost sheep to go back to Abraham to find my roots and stop sinning by learning the Law of Moses as given to Moses and Yehoshua. Yehoshua the gospel teacher taught this, matthew gospel chapter 5,7,18,19. Do you see anywhere that he gave anyone a break to not obey GOD? NO, the teacher does not. And so those who came and taught different than he did are liars. They teach against the gospel and tell you not to obey GOD ALONE. Instead Paul's jesus idol is supposed to replace GOD,because all of you think God is mean and to hard to obey! The broad road is filled with the religions that refuse to obey God and those who do want to obey take the narrow path laid out in the gospel and scripture, no additions and no subtracting from what GOD alone taught us. I am in the Abrahamic covenant and the covenant of Deuteronomy and Jeremiah chapter 31 and the gospel, all the same. What do you do for your man god?
@TorianTammas read and tell me how any Christian can deny this. The Narrow Gate 13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell[f] is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. The Tree and Its Fruit 15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. 16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. 19 So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions. True Disciples 21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’
This was a wonderful discussion my friend.
Dr. Tabor is the only man that I've encountered who can make this understandable to the layman. A true gem; irreplaceable.
One of the best Tabor guest episodes ever. Jacob is the best interviewer ever.
I love the way Jacob conducts these interviews - intense listening, with no distracting interruptions and very smart questions. Thank you.
This channel is one of the finest I have seen in terms of scholarship, and I mean among all disciplines. He brings out the best in his interviewees.
Excellent presentation from Dr Tabor.
I was actually quite convinced by Mark Goodacre's presentation of the Farrier hypothesis about a month ago, but now I'm swinging the other way.
I'd love to hear Tabor and Goodacre discussing this directly.
You make a great case for Matthew using Luke as a source
Dr Tabor is so knowledgable thank you for the presentation, Jacob
Very interesting and useful lessons on literary criticism of New Testament texts! James Tabor is a joy to listen to.
Thank you
Excellent!
Jacob you're doing very important work here
One of the better vids on redaction criticism.
This was really awesome. Liking Dr. Tabor more and more. Thanks for introducing me to his work, Jacob. Keep up the great work.
48:40 Mark 16:8 I've heard a number of scholars say that this is where Mark originally ended and that what came after was added later. I'm not doubting that. But how do we know that? What's the evidence for that? If I were talking to a non-scholarly Christian they would likely doubt me. I'd need to be able to point them towards evidence.
This might help your research: "[the long ending] is a general summary of the material concerning the appearances of the risen Jesus, reflecting, in particular, traditions found in Lk 24 and Jn 20."
I think it's acknowledged by some church Father's. We have reliable ancient manuscripts that show no long ending or a different ending. And narratively it seems tacked on.
I think this are the indicators you will hear.
Thanks for the replies.
We know this because the earliest manuscripts don't contain those verses. Another example of this is the story in John of the paralyzed man at the pool where an angel would stir the water and people would go in to be healed.
At 58:41 there's a comment about how codex doesn't come before late 3rd/early 4th century but what about P52?
"Containing part of the Gospel of John, P52 dates to the early second century. Most experts regard the fragments of P52 as the oldest extant canonical Christian text. On the front appears John 18:31-33 with 18:37-38 on the back, in which Pilate questions Jesus before the crucifixion. Written in Greek, this fragment came from a codex-not a scroll.
Discovered in Egypt, P52 was published in 1935 and is housed in the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England. (Its full name is John Rylands Papyrus P52, with the acquisition number John Rylands Greek 457.) The fragment measures 3.4 by 2.5 inches.
Authorities Kurt and Barbara Aland date the fragment to “about 125” A.D., allowing for a margin of error of 25 years on either side. However, other scholars prefer to give P52 a more conservative date of 140 A.D."
Interesting book "A Hebrew Translation Of The Gospel Of Mark by Robert L. Lindsey" has a great discussion on the synoptic problem
The presentation overall was quite good. I'm perplexed that Dr. Tabor mentions that Matthew somehow had a later version of Q. Matthew is quite happy to reword his sources to fit his goals and theology, as Dr. Tabor discusses at length here. So why this remark that implies that Matthew and Luke were slavishly following their sources, while their sources had absolute freedom to make up anything? This seems to be the assumption of many of the professionals in this field, but all of the evidence is to the contrary.
I recently heard the idea that Q was simply an expanded version of Mark with extra dialogue added and that both Matthew and Luke used this expanded version of Mark. Therefore Q probably dates to the 80s or later. The key argument for this was that the Q material is sufficiently tightly integrated into Mark in such a way that Matthew and Luke are extremely unlikely to have independently integrated Q material into Mark in the same way. It also is based on the idea that some of the Q material is clearly based on or reacting to stories that are clearly the fictional invention of Mark. Therefore if they are reacting to Mark they must be post Mark. I haven’t carefully reviewed the evidence for this theory, but the reasoning makes a lot of sense. It is similar to the Farrer hypothesis but has some additional explanatory power that seems to make more sense than the idea that Luke used Matthew. Jacob, it would be nice if you could ask some of the experts on your show what they think about this idea of Q as expanded Mark.
Dr Tabor. The South Chicago streetwise approach to Biblical exegesis
One good thing about Kermit Zarley is that he's not a trinitarian. Good for him. Seeing that the trinity is not in the text was the start of my 'wisdom.' The whole house-that-dogma-built came crashing down a few years later.
Besides the Yom Kippur war, James Tabor could have mentioned the Tet Offensive when the Viet Cong penetrated the US embassy in Saigon - according to the Vietnam tourism bureau, "during [the week of Tet] families reunite and honour their ancestors, while praying for luck, prosperity and health in the new year."
If you closely examine Qvelle (‘source’ in German) aka ‘Q’ (c. 196 sayings of Jesus common to ‘Matthew’ & ‘Luke’ [whoever they were] but curiously absent in ‘Mark’ -whoever he was - about 1/2 of the Greek words plac’d into the mouth of a ‘Greek-speaking Jesus’ in Q are very close linguistically in terms of word for word in exact repetition in Greek (Gk-Q) and roughly the other half of the sayings collection seem to be independent translations from Aramaic into Greek (Aram-Q) such as the mess we find in Matthew 11:12-13 & Luke 16:16 (‘the Torah & the testimony of the prophets was taught amidst a background of violence from the days of John the Baptist until this day- but now when the Kingdom of David is being proclaim’d men of violence have bored their way into it & now have taken it over by force !’) seems to be what the Aramaic underlay is trying to say (without alerting the Roman authorities) - but we must always separate Q-Gk from Q-Aram if we are to discuss these 196 overlap sayings intelligently - ‘Mark’ may once have been much longer and contain’d parts of Q (‘Ur-Markus) but for some reason (like Luke’s Great Omission of Mark ch 5, 6 & 7 in a single 8-sided papyrus folio text) may indicate that pieces of ‘Mark’ had fallen out of the earliest & therefore most worn & damag’d hand written copies …
How can you examine something that doesn't exist
@@rochesterjohnny7555 / you raise a very valid point / for example the Nazis destroy’d ALL traces of the ‘holocaust ovens’ (zero were ever found) and gas-chambers (zero were ever found) - ‘so call’d (ahem) eyewitnesses’ to the holocaust (some old blurry BW photos which shewing a pile of naked dead white people stack’d on top of each other that turn’d out to be moribund (‘ill’) patients, murderers, old people, the mentally disabled, homosexuals & ‘gypsies’ & ‘politicals and not evidence of holocausted Jews’ -even tho’ there were a few Jews in the stack of dead bodies were part of those falling into several of those categories (especially ‘politicals’ i.e. Marxist Communists’ which Adolf Hitler (‘Dolphy’) call’d ‘Jews’ because Karl Marx was an (atheist) Jew…
Any ‘examples of Nazi gas chambers & ovens are ‘historical reconstructions of what they MUST (!) have look’d like bas’d on the memories of ‘survivors’ etc
So yes does that mean the holocaust of murders, rapists, old people, fat people, disabl’d, mentally retarded, sexual defectives, homosexuals & Jews never happen’d ? By no means !! You don’t always have to have an archaeological hard-example to examine to draw real conclusions from the evidence / in this case Qvelle falls into two broad categories for the c. 196 verses in question - those that match nearly word for word between these c. 196 sayings in ‘Matthew’ (whoever he was…) & ‘Luke’ (whoever he was…) = Qvelle Gk
Then there are about 45% of the rest that are not very close but seem like independent renderings from the Aramaic into koine Greek = Qvelle-Aram;
So a close reading of ‘Qvelle’ does seem to indicate at least two separate sources -
In chapter 1:1-2 ‘Luke’ informs ‘His Excellency Theophilos’ (whoever he was) that : ‘since many persons have taken it into their heads to write accounts of what has been done among us including both eyewitnesses & preachers of the word, it seem’d a good idea for me too to compile an ‘orderly account’ of what we stand for so that you might have an inkling of the truth of these things…’
And it seems that chapters 1,2 and other large portions of his gospel are bas’d on Aramaic hagaddic midrashic legendary expansions of ‘messianic prophecies’-whilst other sources seem to have been in Greek (e.g. the ‘Sayings Gospel of Thomas’ which seems to be an exemplar of what Qvelle may well have resembl’d in the form of a ‘sayings gospel’ but remember Carl Sagan’s favourite dictum : ‘absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence’ so serious modern biblical researchers have to isolate Qvelle & compare the c. 196 sayings very very very closely in order to draw what is call’d ‘inferences’ …
Have you isolated the c.196 sayings yet? Can you speak, read & write Hebrew, Coptic, Ethiopic Ge’z, koine Greek & Aramaic to make value judgements about the material at hand that has surviv’d in so many mangl’d Greek & Coptic hand written MSS ?
If you are not conversant in these original source materials, how on earth can you pontificate on the existence/non existence of Qvelle as a document or even as half-documents & half oral sources ?
25:50 I'm no expert so my generalization may not be entirely accurate. But it seems Matthew tends to elaborate and expand compared to Luke. If we were to look at that and ask the question which came first, the short version of the longer, I'd lean in favor of the short coming first.
The reason is that it seems like if a message resonated with the with a congregation, or new converts, then there would be a tendency to want to expand on that portion, since it's successful. If people like something, you want to give them more of it.
What do you think? Am I on to something here?
edit - 35:30 Well, we just had 2 examples of Luke being longer than Matthew. So I guess my generalization is not true. Nonetheless, can we draw a conclusion about the possible priority of one of these, Matthew or Luke, over the other, based on how the common material is handled? If we can then Q would not be needed. The common material would be sourced to whichever, Matthew or Luke, came first.
28:22 Expanding on that. If Matthew came after Luke and embellished Luke, then isn't it possible that Q didn't exist? The material described as Q would simply be more L.
Where did mark get his source?
Interesting that there exists a university of Jerusalem school on the NT. I know they do a lot of good scholarship with the Hebrew Bible but never thought they did much study of the new testament.
Why were all episodes with Dr Robert Price removed? Big loss
Really?!
I hope that isn't true. RMP is one of the best
@@jimnasium3979 Apparently it is. See the comments on the latest HV video
Why is Dennis Miller’s picture in the thumbnail???
I thought it was general knowledge among biblical scholars that the "gospels", Book of Acts, Romans, several letters of "Paul", and Revelation, were all written by the Pisos Flavian family of Rome. Their names are numerologically encoded in the texts.
Your life's work is going down in history among scholars and Christians...just so you know. I teach my sons information from your studies frequently and I'm Christian. Truth seekers fear no critical analysis, because truth is king and the truth will set you free (redemption). Some dude said that once a couple thou ago.
I believe John Robinson, many many years ago, wrote a paper to show that you could make a strong argument for the primacy of John.
How would you explain Jerome and others that mentioned there being a Hebrew version of Matthew that was kept at Cesarea ? It was supposed to have been the original and the Greek version was translated from it , as well as Luke using it to make his Gospel . The Ebionites would have been using this Hebrew version and they also didn't have a problem with Luke's Gospel , probably because it borrowed from their Hebrew Matthew . Apparently this original Hebrew Matthew didn't have the genealogy or the virgin birth account
We have around 94 stories about Iesous and only 4 made it into one story collection we call new testament. So we have at least 90 texts or about 95% of texts by Christians for Christians considered as fraud. So how do we know that 5% that made it into the New Testament aren't fraut? The answer is we do not know.
It is amazing that the writer of Luke and the writer of Matthew both value Mark enough to include so much of it, yet they have they dare to cut some parts out and add some points in. Did they value Mark because of who they think wrote it, or because it was so wide spread by their time. Did they change things readily because they thought their works would replace Mark?
They don't, they both consider Mark crap and so they correct it and fill in their theology. They do not care at all for Mark they are just too lazy or inept to formulate it freely as John who used all three and made his fictional story sound a bit different.
Jacob,
IMO, the nerdy mormon guy , ( I will call him NMG) .....quietly demolishes "Markan Priority". He focuses on the well-known event-order phenomenon of the synoptics.
- for his argument in a nutshell, see time hack 5:37 of th-cam.com/video/L6iBtu9FQCw/w-d-xo.html...
1. In ALL passages where Matthew departs from markan event-order , Luke's do not AND VICE VERSA.
2.where Matthew and Luke agree on event-order, Mark ALWAYS agrees.
NMG simply points out that these phenomena are exactly what would be predicted if Mark was using scrolls of both Matthew and Luke and had to choose between event-orders when the latter two deviated from one another.....
Mark certainly displays's what criminal investigators would term 'guilty knowledge'. i e there is no way that Mark could have internalized or mimicked BOTH Luke and Mathew's orders unless Mark wrote third. Tabor's Markan priority cannot explain this event-order anomaly other than to say that if Mark came first then Matthew and Luke performed an INEXPLICABLE delicate dance where if one deviated from Mark's event-order then the other would make sure to snap back to it....each necessarily being aware of how the other had treated Mark. Yhis is a choreography that at the very least makes the Q theory impossible because , in Q, neither Evangelist Luke nor Matthew was supposed to know the others Work.
Mark is like the kid who sits between the valedictorian and salutatorian and whose test answers ALWAYS match either his classmate sitting on his left or else the one on his right and never has an original answer. of his own.
NTL Tabor's Q is what most modern scholars accept these days without question or even the least bit of curiosity.
you really should invite that Nerdy Mormon Guy on to discuss Markan priority...(but please dont ask him about planet Kolob or I'll boycott that one😀)😂
Listen to proponents of early gospel writings before you conclude.
If Paul dies mid 60s and
Luke writes about him and never mentions his death means he wrote before his death surely
The mentipn of destruction of temple in yerusalem was written before it happened so before 70AD.
So mark matthew luke acts before 70AD
@carefullychristian8657 We dont have any copy of anything before late in the second century so make it up however you like. Non of your arguments means anything. I read tons of american books written after 9/11 and non mentioned it. So we have no clue when they anonymous fan fiction about a dead arameic preacher was produced in greek. This is greek-roman literature. I
@@TorianTammas This is a nonsense response. Lots of books don't mention 9/11 because they are not relevant to the subject matter. However, the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70AD is extremely relevant to the subject matter of the New Testament documents. The fact that it isn't mentioned in any of them requires explanation, not a lazy dismissal. Yet I wouldn't expect much else from someone who describes the New Testament documents as "fan fiction." This demonstrates your deep ignorance about the genre of these various and numerous texts and provides no explanation for the origins of Christianity with its very distinctive claims.
Son of Man is lord of sabbath = Roman Emperor is greater than your local divinity.
Matthew has Jesus Resurrection" from the cross ??? Lol,
which contradicts marks rising from the tomb account???..
show you the credibility of the Gospels!!!
These synoptics discussions are somewhat interesting. However, I've never seen a discussion about how and why the Holy Spirit inspired these gospels to be written in the words they were. Scholastic thinking seems to discount the Holy Spirit's influence on the gospel accounts. Harmonizing seems, to me, the better approach for Christians. What do the three accounts say, as a whole, about a certain event or teaching?
We have either exact copies, we have before and later copied text but changed events, and a lot of times the event was not invented and is so missing in other texts.
@@TorianTammas considering all textual variations and traditions, I cannot think of anything that would change the spiritual realities of the doctrines taught therein. Amazing! In the end, I'm glad the critics spent so much time, study, debate and effort affirming my faith in the unity and perfection of the Holy Spirit's message of Christ in God!
@@studiodemichel Did no one tell you of the 150 years of utter silence where we have nothing? So anyone could have produced, altered, and modified that stuff. We have 94 anonymous fan fiction accounts in Greek. Christians used all 94 and then other Christians decided 90 are false and 4 are not based on everyone can be fantasy. So it is Greek-roman literature that is influenced by Homer, Vergil, and Eusebius. Personally, I do not care why people do not get it that it is fan fiction like every religious text. Time to grow up so you can believe what you want and need no one to allow it to you.
@@studiodemichel You can belief what you want. Fact is we have 150 years of utter silence in which no text exists. We have then scrabs and nobody knows what these anonymous grrek roman literature holds. Itvshows clear signs of a literary tradition that incorporates greek philosophy, Homer, Vergil and even Josephus. So it is a greek product in which a dead arameic preacher is mentioned. What exists beyond the 94 stories is up for imagination. Yes you know only ablut 4 stories as others do not trust you and your judgement. They prefer to keep you in the darkness of gheir prison build by their opinions.
@@TorianTammas AND...you can "belief" what you want, as well. There is no ancient literature with more attestation and witness in the world. Your theory of the New Testament as being Greco-Roman propaganda flies in the face of evidence. Bottom line, for me, is that there is no adequate explanation for the existence of this universe than it being a designed thing. You can see that in something so simple as a blade of grass or in cell structure. I'm sure that I'm not the blind one.
39:53. I never got this argument. In the Hebrew Bible David is far from a role model, by the contrary, he was a murderous adeulterer, that happened to be chosen by God.
David was never meant as a role model for American suburbian soccer mom and in a cubicle working dad. This is a story for a long-dead culture in a foreign language.
The Real, Hebrew, Son Of God, was a bilingual, person, a dark skin man, with a very, strong Spiritual ity. The Romans shifted, His personality, and disposition, to , Pagan Jesus.
Cornelius is the common denominator of the four Gospels and Acts. The Gospels are structurally harmonized by the Cross and a feature of the critical historic analysis of the Post Modern Historic Deconstruction is to de-harmonize the individual Gospels in the forensic processes of this method of inquiry. In the resulting de-harmonized Gospel, Jesus remains the singular Figure of the Historic Gestalt in the particular Field of sociology and anthropology of the particular perspective and context of each Gospel.
The sin of harmonization only occurs when moving from the critical historic method of the dialectical Marxism of the Bart Ehrman/Jesus seminar to the critical literary method of Hegel's dialectical synthesis.
In regards to the Post Modern Historic Deconstruction of the 60s Cultural Warriors, the difference between Jimmy Tabor's version of Paul's theology and N.T.. Wright's version of Paul's theology is the difference between the dialectic Marxism of John Dominic Crossan that obviates the Christology of the Gospels and dialectical Idealism. of Wright which is suffused with the unalloyed Christology of Jesus.. pure and uncorrupted.
The de-harmonization of the critical historic method violates the 4th law of Logic: You cannot reduce a paradox. Dialectical Marxism compels Paradox to be devolved to dilemma and a decision be made in favor of one of the horns. That captures perfectly the product of the Jesus Seminar.
All the world's holy books are literature. Period. Early man's attempts to understand the world.
Everything that came after Yehoshua the teacher of what is called the Matthew gospel is of the false christ created after the gospel, after the good news preached in the gospel, that christ is false, a deception its name jesus and its cross never happened except in the man of sins lying epistles, the writings of Paul of tarsus and the rest of the ones who come in the name if jesus and not in the name of God alone as all true lost sheep will. We serve God alone not any christ!
I know God, I walk in covenant with God and I Love God. I fear God as well and that is the beginning of Love because until you fear disobeying God and causing God to look upon you in shame so you feel horrible then you can not love Him. I started this walk when I was 32, to look for God. I started to actually begin to find God when I was 39 and sealed myself to God as the gospel tells us to, those of us who listen to the gospel teacher and not the ones who came after him, know to take up the commandments of God and to seek out our roots back to Abraham and to Moses and Yehoshua and the prophets so we become firm in knowledge of what GOD ALONE asked of us. It took me several years of fighting sin and the devil by obeying God. I fought the sin out of me with God's help, by his instructions in the written word. It is a very narrow road and as the mattan/Matthew gospel says very few will find it. We have to fight Satan and the whole world that serves him in sin in order to get out and the one who will help is God alone because we can't trust anyone else. I am with God, God provides for myself and my family and yes there is absolutely evidence BUT not until you absolutely come clean, in thought, word and deed, the absolute opposite of all the lying religions. The gospel was sent down to free us from sin by sending us to our teacher and if you reject it then you are freed from God into sin perpetually and to death spiritually from God which as I can now see is absolutely hell on earth, your light you pretend to have is absolutely darkness caused by your unwillingness to even try to obey God. I speak to 99% of the population. If you can't put everyone first after God and stop yourself from all sin THEN YOUR NOT WORTHY AND YOU ARE ALREADY FINISHED BEFORE YOU EVEN STARTED.
So come out of all sun, take up the commandments and begin your battle, call to GOD ALONE, LEARN YOUR ROOTS, BE GOD'S PEOPLE. FIGHT SATAN WHO IS THE SINNERS INNER VOICE, THE CONSCIENCE THAT LEADS YOU TO HURT YOU, that's not you, it's Satan the deceiver. If you come to God and pass the trials cleansing yourself by obedience then GOD WILL BECOME YOUR CONSCIENCE AND YOU WILL LOVE GOD AND HATE SIN, SATAN WILL FLEE FROM YOU.
SO there it is.
Peace, the ball in in your court
Be wary of this world, it is the valley of death, you need God's light and God doesn't dwell with sin or sinners. Not until they begin the journey to stop sin.
But you speak like Gospels are stand alone.
Clearly jesus Apostles and paul all show that tsnakh ecpkains the NT thats why there are over 300 direct or not quites from OT.
so guys linked them in a smart way if its not inspiratio
they filled the emptiness with jewish scripture.
Is this a joke .
Is this a comment .
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
Is this a question?🙄
No the joke is that Matthew, Mark Luke and John actually wrote the Gospels that are so named.😂
So Mythvision, Gnostic informant, Tabor, and Tovia Singer are all in this together.
Everything that came after Yehoshua the teacher of what is called the Matthew gospel is of the false christ created after the gospel, after the good news preached in the gospel, that christ is false, a deception its name jesus and its cross never happened except in the man of sins lying epistles, the writings of Paul of tarsus and the rest of the ones who come in the name if jesus and not in the name of God alone as all true lost sheep will. We serve God alone not any christ!
I know God, I walk in covenant with God and I Love God. I fear God as well and that is the beginning of Love because until you fear disobeying God and causing God to look upon you in shame so you feel horrible then you can not love Him. I started this walk when I was 32, to look for God. I started to actually begin to find God when I was 39 and sealed myself to God as the gospel tells us to, those of us who listen to the gospel teacher and not the ones who came after him, know to take up the commandments of God and to seek out our roots back to Abraham and to Moses and Yehoshua and the prophets so we become firm in knowledge of what GOD ALONE asked of us. It took me several years of fighting sin and the devil by obeying God. I fought the sin out of me with God's help, by his instructions in the written word. It is a very narrow road and as the mattan/Matthew gospel says very few will find it. We have to fight Satan and the whole world that serves him in sin in order to get out and the one who will help is God alone because we can't trust anyone else. I am with God, God provides for myself and my family and yes there is absolutely evidence BUT not until you absolutely come clean, in thought, word and deed, the absolute opposite of all the lying religions. The gospel was sent down to free us from sin by sending us to our teacher and if you reject it then you are freed from God into sin perpetually and to death spiritually from God which as I can now see is absolutely hell on earth, your light you pretend to have is absolutely darkness caused by your unwillingness to even try to obey God. I speak to 99% of the population. If you can't put everyone first after God and stop yourself from all sin THEN YOUR NOT WORTHY AND YOU ARE ALREADY FINISHED BEFORE YOU EVEN STARTED.
So come out of all sun, take up the commandments and begin your battle, call to GOD ALONE, LEARN YOUR ROOTS, BE GOD'S PEOPLE. FIGHT SATAN WHO IS THE SINNERS INNER VOICE, THE CONSCIENCE THAT LEADS YOU TO HURT YOU, that's not you, it's Satan the deceiver. If you come to God and pass the trials cleansing yourself by obedience then GOD WILL BECOME YOUR CONSCIENCE AND YOU WILL LOVE GOD AND HATE SIN, SATAN WILL FLEE FROM YOU.
SO there it is.
Peace, the ball in in your court
Be wary of this world, it is the valley of death, you need God's light and God doesn't dwell with sin or sinners. Not until they begin the journey to stop sin.
23 “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. 25 See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.
26 “So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it! Know, therefore, that only your God יהוה is God, the steadfast God who keeps the divine covenant faithfully to the thousandth generation of those who love [God] and keep the divine commandments,
www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.7.9
MATHEW gospel
Joshua(not jesus) told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many.
They made up the jesus idol based on the true teacher in the matthew gospel, the quick note left for the lost sheep of Isra'el, like myself and probably most of those they falsely labeled noachides. We who want to obey God must but all religions tell us not to or we cannot obey our God.
See deuteronomy chapter 30, that is how we wake up out here.
The guys name is Iesous to begin with.
@TorianTammas no,sorry, the gospel teacher is Yehoshua/Isa and the fake man god the weed that came after is iasous/jesus. Yehoshua taught me, a lost sheep to go back to Abraham to find my roots and stop sinning by learning the Law of Moses as given to Moses and Yehoshua. Yehoshua the gospel teacher taught this, matthew gospel chapter 5,7,18,19.
Do you see anywhere that he gave anyone a break to not obey GOD? NO, the teacher does not. And so those who came and taught different than he did are liars. They teach against the gospel and tell you not to obey GOD ALONE.
Instead Paul's jesus idol is supposed to replace GOD,because all of you think God is mean and to hard to obey!
The broad road is filled with the religions that refuse to obey God and those who do want to obey take the narrow path laid out in the gospel and scripture, no additions and no subtracting from what GOD alone taught us.
I am in the Abrahamic covenant and the covenant of Deuteronomy and Jeremiah chapter 31 and the gospel, all the same.
What do you do for your man god?
@TorianTammas read and tell me how any Christian can deny this.
The Narrow Gate
13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell[f] is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.
The Tree and Its Fruit
15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. 16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. 19 So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
True Disciples
21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’