He didn't use diesels as generators! The Main power of his tank generated by a Diesel. Acceleration systems produced electricity and used with electric motors as support. This is totally different from Porsche's
Somewhere, The Old Gang are smiling down on earth. They designed the TOG1 and TOG2 tanks with Diesel electric drive-trains several years before Ferdinand Porche
It's veeeeeery interesting (IMO); this allows you to build compact 30 & 40 ton armored vehicles that could move like scalded dogs, with above-normal interior space. This system is a game-changer in armored vehicle design. Now if we can just stop the ChiComs from stealing it...
With Ground radar, it doesnt matter about the amount of sound a veh generates, you will be spotted. Also the electric motors/battery pack DOES generate heat and then add in the heat from the generator engine. The time of the MBT tracked veh is coming to an end, they are nothing but expensive targets for the enemy helo's. No more massed tank battles like el Alamein/Kursk/73 easting, Drones/helos rule the field. BTW, this tech is nothing new, some prototype WWII german tanks were electric drive.....
Sany0 oh so if we drive around at night it doesn’t matter if your beeping your horn and flashing lights because a ground radar knows your there anyway. What a load of nonsense. Noise signature is a massive part of not being detected. You often hear armour way before seeing it. One of armours biggest threats is anti tank detachments on the ground. And they have little to no access to ground radar technology. Also it is naive to think that tracked armour has little place in the future considering Russia and China heavily invest in ground forces. Their anti air and anti missile defence along with mechanised infantry is how they operate. Oh and btw electric propulsion and battery technology is seeing the biggest technological growth and will so out perform internal combustion engines if not already in the very near future.
As a Toyota certified technician the Hino medium duty trucks have a Toyota diesel electric drivetrain that allows the diesel engine to be shut off when the truck is idling at a light when the light turns green the driver steps on the gas battery power propels the truck through the intersection at which time the diesel engine restarts and I was wondering if this transmission would allow tanks to turn off their diesel engines to save fuel and everything run off the batteries eliminating hydraulics which every Tanker knows destroys your hearing it from the fuel efficiency point of you is that possible this transmission
As nothing has been announced to replace the Challenger 2 power plant in the current life extension program, they seem to be holding out for something. Could this be it?
Doktor Kranium. The Old Gang. Built the Tog 1 with diesel electric drive 2 years before Porsche even got a contract to build tiger tanks. The patent is British.
@@doktork3406 Seeing as there's a picture of Challenger 2 directly above the transmission on the advertising board I suggest it's very probable. Also what other tracked vehicle requires 1500+ bhp?
I was thinking the same thing, the only thing I can think of is redundancy. You are however introducing more moving parts which makes it more likely to break down in the first place.
@@agt155 He said 4 motors. You can lose 3 of these and as long as 1 of them is not completely trashed and still turns its side of tracks the single remaining one will propel the vehicle. It can compensate as long as another track is not pulling to stop. The best benefit of this system is the silent electric drive. The separated (from the hull) suspension used with rubber tracks gives amazing effects.
Laser for small flying objects like rockets or drones uses at least 1mW. It's not impossible but nobody will store such an amount of energy in a tank. There are better ways to address these types of threats.
1) you play too much COD 2) EMP is not a viable option as it damages doth sides 3) EMP has nothing to do with a transmission and electric engines EMP 2 vehicles ... one with this and one with a diesel engine both will fail the same way 4) i bet you don't know how EMPs are produced...nuclear detonations at high altitudes ... nobody will launch nukes... 6) 4 and 1 should be combined 7) you realised i skipped 5 and you're pissed off
@@doktork34061. I don't play COD or any games 2. The US discovered EMP when testing nuclear weapons in the Pacific and the resultant effect it had on Hawaii's electrical system 3. The US used EMP weapons during the Gulf war on Bagdad
So basically, they have done a diesel-electric submarine operating platform into a land vehicle. Gosh, how long did that idea needed to take to filter up from the briny depths?
You would need a ridiculously large battery pack for electric braking or as a power adder. Just the engine and drive seems like a good idea though, but that tech has been around a long time, must be a reason why it has not been used yet? The generator on the engine will take up a lot of space as well though. I don't know, I'm an electrician, not an engineer,lol. I'm guessing it's much more expensive. The other technology's are well proven, and a heavy tank is not efficient no matter what you do.
Pros: Flexibility with engine placement Simpler to no gearbox, less moving parts Easier driving control More torque at slow speeds with same power applied Cons: Generators massively consume space and weight Power loss on generators, requires bigger engine Complexity reduces maintainability, requires mechanics and elictricians to fix Expensive, since electric equipment is used, which is exp. in production, also requires copper lithiun and other expensive/rare materials etc.
Tracks are never silent, and i doubt silent mode will be available....the battery pack would be too heavy and have zero effective range. EV vehicles today can get 250 miles out of a decent sized pack....BUT...they weigh only 2 tons, have special low friction tyres, use tarmac'd roads and dont have tracks.....Moving a 35 ton IFV, cross country with tracks DESIGNED to have huge friction for traction in all conditions (snow, mud, desert) is totally different...this is just another "concept" that the tax payers are funding.
Whats the torque and or power limitations? Also: Transmission 99% efficient. VS Generator 85% and electric motors 85% = 72.25%. Note how he's not talking about the power pack that powers this system. and how much power that is lost. OH placement? wonderful no mention that the generator will take up more volume... and a battery pack... taking up more volume. What metric is at the biggest premium in any military vehicle? Volume. and mass. Both a problem with battery energy storage. Yes electric drive Efficient. but electric drive was used in place of the huge reduction gearboxes that weighed ungodly amounts to be viable and struggled to change gear, on locomotives a vehicle which you can make as Long as you like, within reason. UNLESS you intend to make something in the 100+Ton range. i don't see the point. the Cons out weigh the Pros. for most military applications.
There's no mechanical tracked vehicle transmission in the world with 99% efficiency. Torque and power limitations will easily be much better than the best diesel tank in the market. Advantages of this design: 1. using the diesel engine at its most efficient point. 2. ability to use a smaller diesel engine (you don't need the engine to provide peak torque requirement), you're not tied to MTU and Renk any more. Generator will not take up more volume. 3. The transmission on this system is much simpler and efficient, only two gears, electronic controlled clutch, no differential. The battery is not large, it's only a buffer, not meant to be that large to move the tank on its own for over a minute. For a comparable heavy duty application research Komatsu electric wheel loaders.
Interesting, but seems overly complex. One of the point of electric drive would be to get rid of what would be considered a conventional transmission. Also, it's a single point of failure. I think I'd wan't two separate units (either front or back), or better four units, one in each corner.
@@michaelwolffs8510 Not really, to cope with the amperage needed to have a system with a single-speed gear reduction which supplies enough torque for low speed operation, you'd need insanely large motors and controllers. Keeping the vehicle going straight without the center differential would require the motors to constantly adjust the power output of the motors, which would likely make them operate inefficiently.
Do the math. An electric motor at X kw requires a generator of a certain size. This requires a diesel engine of a certain size. Steering and breaking is a big plus but engine wise not so much
That's not how it works. A main battle tank engine these days is around 1500 hp but that's only required in certain conditions. Diesel engines are sized to provide maximum torque and power requirement, whereas an electric motor can provide 150% rated torque and power for a few minutes. So you can use a 1000 hp engine and electric motor and top up with a battery or capacitor.
As a guy who has worked on many leaky transmissions in the Army. I give this idea my full blessing.
Use this guy on all your tech videos, he's very good. Interesting tech.
Just jump to 11 seconds... he explains his own project, I bet they can't borrow him for every video :P
I know, but they should hire him
I could tell that he did it and wasn't just the sales guy.
One of the best presentations that I've heard........well done sir!
Somewhere, Ferdinand Porche is smiling down on earth.
Beat me to it....
He didn't use diesels as generators! The Main power of his tank generated by a Diesel. Acceleration systems produced electricity and used with electric motors as support. This is totally different from Porsche's
@@buyrunbenim6513
It's essentially the same thing.
Somewhere, The Old Gang are smiling down on earth. They designed the TOG1 and TOG2 tanks with Diesel electric drive-trains several years before Ferdinand Porche
Lets hope it doesn't catch fire like Porche's did
Wow this guy knows his stuff and can deliver!
This is an interesting development..
It's veeeeeery interesting (IMO); this allows you to build compact 30 & 40 ton armored vehicles that could move like scalded dogs, with above-normal interior space. This system is a game-changer in armored vehicle design.
Now if we can just stop the ChiComs from stealing it...
Electric will also have a lot lower noise signature and thermal signature.
1st thing I thought of watching this. GIves new meaning to the "Whispering Death" nom de guerre.
Never heard a diesel gen set running at full RPM have you?
@@c3pfett That is what Battery is for. Thus the Diesel GenSet is only used when in safe zone.
With Ground radar, it doesnt matter about the amount of sound a veh generates, you will be spotted. Also the electric motors/battery pack DOES generate heat and then add in the heat from the generator engine. The time of the MBT tracked veh is coming to an end, they are nothing but expensive targets for the enemy helo's. No more massed tank battles like el Alamein/Kursk/73 easting, Drones/helos rule the field.
BTW, this tech is nothing new, some prototype WWII german tanks were electric drive.....
Sany0 oh so if we drive around at night it doesn’t matter if your beeping your horn and flashing lights because a ground radar knows your there anyway. What a load of nonsense. Noise signature is a massive part of not being detected. You often hear armour way before seeing it. One of armours biggest threats is anti tank detachments on the ground. And they have little to no access to ground radar technology. Also it is naive to think that tracked armour has little place in the future considering Russia and China heavily invest in ground forces. Their anti air and anti missile defence along with mechanised infantry is how they operate.
Oh and btw electric propulsion and battery technology is seeing the biggest technological growth and will so out perform internal combustion engines if not already in the very near future.
Finally ! I have been looking for this since the nineteen seventies.
@@mcpuff2318 Check out IS-6 or Object 253. Built 1944.
@@marks6030 Or some of the german prototypes in WWII, they had electric drive.
As a Toyota certified technician the Hino medium duty trucks have a Toyota diesel electric drivetrain that allows the diesel engine to be shut off when the truck is idling at a light when the light turns green the driver steps on the gas battery power propels the truck through the intersection at which time the diesel engine restarts and I was wondering if this transmission would allow tanks to turn off their diesel engines to save fuel and everything run off the batteries eliminating hydraulics which every Tanker knows destroys your hearing it from the fuel efficiency point of you is that possible this transmission
As nothing has been announced to replace the Challenger 2 power plant in the current life extension program, they seem to be holding out for something. Could this be it?
no...this set up is totally wrong and a waste of tax payers money
this concept , as made up be Porsche during WW2 is interesting
but not practical now
the Chally is way too heavy for this i thing
Doktor Kranium. The Old Gang. Built the Tog 1 with diesel electric drive 2 years before Porsche even got a contract to build tiger tanks. The patent is British.
@@doktork3406 Seeing as there's a picture of Challenger 2 directly above the transmission on the advertising board I suggest it's very probable. Also what other tracked vehicle requires 1500+ bhp?
Chally 2 can get a modernization program but THIS type of drive is targeted more at Challenger 3 kind of vehicle.
Sounds really good i hope it will be succesful
400 Kwat at each engine? How you cool down that without melting down and prevent burst in smoke?
radiators
Totally different from other hybrid vehicles. Diesels are used as generators astonishing
Diesel power packs are one option... turbine engines become practical as an alternative since it's only running a generator.
Why bother with a conventional differential for steering when each track can have it's own electric motor with variable speed control?
I was thinking the same thing, the only thing I can think of is redundancy. You are however introducing more moving parts which makes it more likely to break down in the first place.
he said that... because you can have constant current in main motors and use steering motors outside of that... so it should increase life span
If you had an electric motor each side then you're limited to the power of that motor each side.
@@agt155 He said 4 motors. You can lose 3 of these and as long as 1 of them is not completely trashed and still turns its side of tracks the single remaining one will propel the vehicle. It can compensate as long as another track is not pulling to stop.
The best benefit of this system is the silent electric drive. The separated (from the hull) suspension used with rubber tracks gives amazing effects.
@@HanSolo__ The two smaller motors are for steering. The two large motors are for drive, you cannot lose both of these and still drive.
Swedish SEP developed by Hägglunds in the nineties. Now BAE systems.
One more benefit: with that generator, you could mount powerful weapons that use electricity instead of gunpowder.
No.
no way a generator can make that much power...
@@catlee8064 To charge them, not to power them constantly.
@@NeblogaiLT
There is also no way to haul such a big capacitor around.
Laser for small flying objects like rockets or drones uses at least 1mW. It's not impossible but nobody will store such an amount of energy in a tank. There are better ways to address these types of threats.
excellent
Waouhhhhh!!!! That's so impressive!!!
SEP flashbacks.
Very sensible.
is a better transmission and still burning disel because bateries are worst than disel on energy density and weight @dennytenny
Oh they looked a Ferdinand Porsches Tiger Design
They will start in small vehicle, and show the reliability.
Would the batteries be incorporated in to the vehicles armour ?
nope
How would it go during an emp attack?
1) you play too much COD
2) EMP is not a viable option as it damages doth sides
3) EMP has nothing to do with a transmission and electric engines
EMP 2 vehicles ... one with this and one with a diesel engine
both will fail the same way
4) i bet you don't know how EMPs are produced...nuclear detonations at high altitudes ...
nobody will launch nukes...
6) 4 and 1 should be combined
7) you realised i skipped 5 and you're pissed off
@@doktork34061. I don't play COD or any games
2. The US discovered EMP when testing nuclear weapons in the Pacific and the resultant effect it had on Hawaii's electrical system
3. The US used EMP weapons during the Gulf war on Bagdad
So basically, they have done a diesel-electric submarine operating platform into a land vehicle. Gosh, how long did that idea needed to take to filter up from the briny depths?
idea is not new there were some pre ww2 ideas like tog 2 tank...but its problematic to make it work
Moving toward carbon neutral conflict, Awesome those armed forces reverting to machetes will receive carbon credits.
Why do you think the Baltics have the best farm land? because the WW2 Eastern Front was a massacre.
And Blood has always been the best fertilizer.
Rhys Hughes
running low fuel up 15 minuets and gone charging hours sitting duck dead. 21 years british army how long did you serve i bet did not
@ThomasG10mtn chill dude they are joking -_-
So Croatia, my country, can produce M95 Degman with Rimac powertrain... Awesome! But not going to happen
Up next, the TESLA TANK.
You would need a ridiculously large battery pack for electric braking or as a power adder. Just the engine and drive seems like a good idea though, but that tech has been around a long time, must be a reason why it has not been used yet? The generator on the engine will take up a lot of space as well though. I don't know, I'm an electrician, not an engineer,lol. I'm guessing it's much more expensive. The other technology's are well proven, and a heavy tank is not efficient no matter what you do.
Pros:
Flexibility with engine placement
Simpler to no gearbox, less moving parts
Easier driving control
More torque at slow speeds with same power applied
Cons:
Generators massively consume space and weight
Power loss on generators, requires bigger engine
Complexity reduces maintainability, requires mechanics and elictricians to fix
Expensive, since electric equipment is used, which is exp. in production,
also requires copper lithiun and other expensive/rare materials etc.
Regulation. Multimegawatt electronic motor controllers only became a reality in the last 15-10 years
We had this on the M113 back in the 90s. It was a wonderful idea. But it died. I'm starting to think that hybrid AFVs aren't possible.
Swedish SEP had it too, died aswell.
Hybrid electric AFV are the future. And always will be.
th-cam.com/video/RbWbkOkTydk/w-d-xo.html&app=desktop
That was the 90s though. This tech has advanced considerably since, no?
@@lancervi1762 not really... yes batteries did improve but the rest not so much.
It's Future Electric Drive give Tanks new Capabilities and Survivability. Every Tank have to Upgrade. No other Option.
Main benefit of this is silent mode.
Tracks are never silent, and i doubt silent mode will be available....the battery pack would be too heavy and have zero effective range. EV vehicles today can get 250 miles out of a decent sized pack....BUT...they weigh only 2 tons, have special low friction tyres, use tarmac'd roads and dont have tracks.....Moving a 35 ton IFV, cross country with tracks DESIGNED to have huge friction for traction in all conditions (snow, mud, desert) is totally different...this is just another "concept" that the tax payers are funding.
@@catlee8064 Tracks is silent when you drive very slowly. In the city firing positions for example.
@@mikemad6092 boy you must be 7 years old.
Silent, have actually heard an electric car? Horrible whiny things, I'm wondering when the americans will claim they invented it.
1:52
Whats the torque and or power limitations? Also: Transmission 99% efficient. VS Generator 85% and electric motors 85% = 72.25%.
Note how he's not talking about the power pack that powers this system. and how much power that is lost.
OH placement? wonderful no mention that the generator will take up more volume... and a battery pack... taking up more volume. What metric is at the biggest premium in any military vehicle? Volume. and mass. Both a problem with battery energy storage.
Yes electric drive Efficient. but electric drive was used in place of the huge reduction gearboxes that weighed ungodly amounts to be viable and struggled to change gear, on locomotives a vehicle which you can make as Long as you like, within reason.
UNLESS you intend to make something in the 100+Ton range. i don't see the point. the Cons out weigh the Pros. for most military applications.
There's no mechanical tracked vehicle transmission in the world with 99% efficiency.
Torque and power limitations will easily be much better than the best diesel tank in the market.
Advantages of this design:
1. using the diesel engine at its most efficient point.
2. ability to use a smaller diesel engine (you don't need the engine to provide peak torque requirement), you're not tied to MTU and Renk any more. Generator will not take up more volume.
3. The transmission on this system is much simpler and efficient, only two gears, electronic controlled clutch, no differential.
The battery is not large, it's only a buffer, not meant to be that large to move the tank on its own for over a minute.
For a comparable heavy duty application research Komatsu electric wheel loaders.
Interesting, but seems overly complex. One of the point of electric drive would be to get rid of what would be considered a conventional transmission. Also, it's a single point of failure. I think I'd wan't two separate units (either front or back), or better four units, one in each corner.
A simpler drive system is overly complex?
@@PistonAvatarGuy The point being, you could do an electric drive system significantly more simply.
@@michaelwolffs8510 Not really, to cope with the amperage needed to have a system with a single-speed gear reduction which supplies enough torque for low speed operation, you'd need insanely large motors and controllers. Keeping the vehicle going straight without the center differential would require the motors to constantly adjust the power output of the motors, which would likely make them operate inefficiently.
yeah... instead of one gear box they have 2... not sure about that...
Thats looks like a 20some years old tech from GD's FCS project
Do the math. An electric motor at X kw requires a generator of a certain size. This requires a diesel engine of a certain size. Steering and breaking is a big plus but engine wise not so much
That's not how it works. A main battle tank engine these days is around 1500 hp but that's only required in certain conditions. Diesel engines are sized to provide maximum torque and power requirement, whereas an electric motor can provide 150% rated torque and power for a few minutes. So you can use a 1000 hp engine and electric motor and top up with a battery or capacitor.
AT LAST ELECTRIC MOTOR IS USED IN MILITARY VIHICLED.
too no use what so ever.....WWII had this
@@catlee8064 TIME GO BY WHAT WE DO RIGHTNOW SHOULD BETTER THAN YESTERDAY .
the wwii was not fully eletric and had more moving parts @@catlee8064
Buy loads
Sad that all this engineering brilliance is dedicated for such a stupid purpose.
I imagine My Khan still won't let you drive it through London lol
Wonder how long before the Russians and Chinese grab the idea.
they are already doing it in the case of the russians