Interview with Senior JS Developer

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ม.ค. 2022
  • 👔 Merch drop 2023: posix.store
    Javascript programming language
    Interview with a Javascript developer with Jack Borrough - aired on © The Javascript.
    Find more Javascript opinions under:
    hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-t...
    Programmer humor
    Javascript humor
    Programming jokes
    Programming memes
    Javascript
    Js memes
    js jokes
    callbacks
    async await
    promises
    react
    typescript
    coffescript
    webassembly
    #programming
    #jokes
    #javascript
  • แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต

ความคิดเห็น • 2.2K

  • @IcaroAlvarez
    @IcaroAlvarez 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1260

    I like your sweater. Would you mind telling the brand? Great video btw!

    • @programmersarealsohuman5909
      @programmersarealsohuman5909  2 ปีที่แล้ว +855

      Jack & Jones Men's Jprblastudio Sweat Hood Noos Sweatshirt Dark Coat Sweat Fit .js

    • @hectorg362
      @hectorg362 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@programmersarealsohuman5909 Ima steal your look

    • @bitcoinmechanic
      @bitcoinmechanic 2 ปีที่แล้ว +63

      @@programmersarealsohuman5909 Can it be transpiled into a pair of jeans?

    • @evenzero
      @evenzero 2 ปีที่แล้ว +58

      @@programmersarealsohuman5909 is it portable?

    • @josh1234567892
      @josh1234567892 ปีที่แล้ว +39

      @@evenzero not really

  • @Chrisxantixemox
    @Chrisxantixemox 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4702

    "Easy fix, will just take me 3-5 days to *find* it".
    No truer words have ever been said.

    • @charisginn6932
      @charisginn6932 2 ปีที่แล้ว +58

      That deeply hurt my soul 🤣😭

    • @bastisprogrammingcorner
      @bastisprogrammingcorner 2 ปีที่แล้ว +58

      That is assuming his estimation is correct. ;-)

    • @robsands6656
      @robsands6656 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      I was already laughing but this is the line where I lost it

    • @lukeglasscock4094
      @lukeglasscock4094 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      hilarious! and true

    • @anywallsocket
      @anywallsocket ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The Linux video he says the same but it takes WEEKS

  • @leoselbach_
    @leoselbach_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3027

    "The strength of JavaScript is that you can do anything. The weakness is that you will." - Reg Braithwaite

    • @laas29
      @laas29 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      the perfect phrase, there are a lot of ergonomics in JS but is a bad idea to do everything in JS, specially because is one of the languages that changes a lot.

    • @AdamWestish
      @AdamWestish ปีที่แล้ว +30

      ​@@laas29 with only 30 years or so of cruft accumulated from sixteen major groups developing JS to run on 5,000 different software stacks that change every month, what could possibly go wrong with a language that allows you to load an infinite number of possibly conflicting libraries into memory on every single tab and window open on machines with already poor security?

    • @__mac
      @__mac 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      love it!

  • @zacanger
    @zacanger ปีที่แล้ว +3136

    I used to be a frontend guy, really got sick of it due to the constant churn ("what do you mean we need to rewrite all our forms to use the newest library? we haven't even finished the LAST two form-rewrites!"). Moved to what I thought was my real passion, devops, got into the same situation with cloud providers and container orchestrators, and then realized this is a problem in every area of tech and I should really just move into a cave in the woods and raise chickens.
    Edit: due to Blackrock buying up all the houses, caves are now trendy and selling for $800k on Zillow. I might need a new plan.

    • @Littlefighter1911
      @Littlefighter1911 ปีที่แล้ว +68

      Or you know, don't always run after the newest tech.
      There is a reason C is still used, especially in critical areas and that even though it's factually bullshit for safe applications.
      (A shit ton of unsafe functions that nobody needs are part of most standards, like "strcmp", "memcpy", "malloc", "setjmp" etc.)
      People still try to sell a shit ton of linters on conventions for embedded computing, as that's the biggest problem there.
      But C didn't really change, even with C11 or newer. The "newest" feature there coming is finally being able to write in a binary notation like "0b0011101",
      that should have been there 40 years ago, because it's importance for embedded can't be understated.
      At the end of the day, if the user can't feel the difference (for example because you will be able to deliver features much faster, or because it fixes certain visible annoying bugs),
      updating libraries beyond vulnerability patches should be on the buttom of your priorities, imo.
      My brother works in GameDev and every time they update UnrealEngine I get pissed for him, because I know it will be another week or two spent on going through all obsolete or changed functions and adjustments to their new behavior.
      But that's the great thing, most libraries offer some sort of LTS version with only security patches being applied as not to break your application.

    • @zacanger
      @zacanger ปีที่แล้ว +41

      @@Littlefighter1911 I agree with you, but churn is unavoidable in some areas of software development. Security is fast-paced because it has to be, because there are always new exploits. Frontend dev is constantly evolving because needs and platforms are constantly expanding. Even if you don't chase new tech, you're forced to try to keep up because if you don't, engagement/revenue/whatever KPIs fall off, vulnerabilities get exploited, etc. You're comparing software areas that are completely different from each other, like saying "oil painting almost never changes, the last major change was switching to synthetic brush bristles because wild boar hair is hard to come by, why don't those 3d film animators just stop chasing new shiny stuff like me?" - they're different fields.

    • @zacanger
      @zacanger ปีที่แล้ว +74

      @podcouchcast Everything is C (or C++, or Rust sometimes, or whatever), if you look deep enough. The world of software is much larger than just web and mobile apps, and JS engines running those TypeScript apps are written in C++, and the OS running that engine is written in C, and all the system software on the box running the webserver is written in C and C++.

    • @sixstanger00
      @sixstanger00 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      Yeah, I've been kind of bringing my knowledge of the latest programming practices up to par and I'm starting to notice that particularly with frontend dev, the tech world has become over-saturated with libraries, and there's seems to be a rat race to 1UP last year's number 1 with yet another. Everybody and their mama seems obsessed with trying to compartmentalize JS & CSS into libraries.
      Most of the libraries I've learned about - particularly Bootstrap, React, & Tailwinds - are nothing more than "templates" that developers can use to speed up the dev process. I get that most clients want their stuff done last week, but honestly I prefer the absolute control working in pure JS & CSS offers. Using Bootstrap regularly is just one step above using WordPress; you end up with a bunch of different sites that all look the same. Even JS itself has undergone some recent practice changes that for me, are real head scratchers. For example, "var" has been the keyword used to declare variables in JS since the 90s, but only recently...some 25 years later, we decide to start using "let" and "const?" Why? JS worked fine without this distinction, so I've yet to understand why this was implemented?
      Nothing wrong with occasionally updating a code base with new features or tech, but let's be honest here....what has React honestly done for JS dev? For all I can make out, it's just another way of modifying/writing to the DOM, which JS can already do *_without_* React.
      If a company wants to pay me $80k a year to forever rewrite existing code stacks, fine. Their money, their problem. But for my own personal projects? Never. I wouldn't rewrite my stack every two years, let alone every month. Tech evolves too quickly for that sort of pursuit to be fruitful. By the time you finish a rewrite, tech has already moved on.

    • @shannongfm9945
      @shannongfm9945 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      What version of Chicken are you running?

  • @4friends1channel
    @4friends1channel 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +73

    "This is not production code.
    It will be tomorrow though."
    Was the highlight for me

  • @d.sherman8563
    @d.sherman8563 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6109

    "My job is to keep our code running while other packages are changing theirs." That's gold 😆

    • @steviebuilds1715
      @steviebuilds1715 2 ปีที่แล้ว +379

      "The major version breaks our code, but our code breaks the minor version"

    • @nikluz3807
      @nikluz3807 2 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      I felt that

    • @ogcontraband
      @ogcontraband 2 ปีที่แล้ว +52

      DLL hell - recreated

    • @mohsin6312
      @mohsin6312 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      LOL 😂😂😂😂

    • @AlbertWessling
      @AlbertWessling 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@ogcontraband right in the feels

  • @traktor6844
    @traktor6844 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4227

    best part: "how do you debug node apps? you don't! you just write good code"

    • @MohammedAliUno
      @MohammedAliUno 2 ปีที่แล้ว +145

      We can't. We won't. We wouldn't. We don't.

    • @decentlabs
      @decentlabs 2 ปีที่แล้ว +56

      "node inspect script.js"
      But how do you debug the transpilers?

    • @fullstack_journey
      @fullstack_journey 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@decentlabs probably end to end testing

    • @chuxmyk
      @chuxmyk 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Lmao. Me too. 🤣🤣

    • @alexandermercer5363
      @alexandermercer5363 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@decentlabs you don't.

  • @ChristopherSalisburySalz
    @ChristopherSalisburySalz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +854

    "Is it scaleable? No. Is it maintainable? No. Is it portable? No. " that made me laugh so hard!! 😂🤣 This is one of the best ones.

    • @mikicerise6250
      @mikicerise6250 ปีที่แล้ว +68

      This isn't our production code.
      It will be tomorrow, though.

    • @PixelPenguin77
      @PixelPenguin77 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      "now we're stuck with this messy language"

    • @nopalfi1409
      @nopalfi1409 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@PixelPenguin77 "I love it - Javascript"

    • @3DGrunge
      @3DGrunge หลายเดือนก่อน

      sounds like he is talking about using frameworks rather than js and a proper serverside language. Tip never use react.

  • @Jerad2142
    @Jerad2142 2 ปีที่แล้ว +968

    Imagine a language so good that you put as many libraries/packages on top of it as possible to not actually touch that language itself.

    • @Microphunktv-jb3kj
      @Microphunktv-jb3kj ปีที่แล้ว +29

      js needs standard library.

    • @SiLintDeath
      @SiLintDeath ปีที่แล้ว +151

      @@Microphunktv-jb3kj congratulations we now have a new whaterverJS library. 😂💀

    • @oscarlove4394
      @oscarlove4394 ปีที่แล้ว +183

      @@Microphunktv-jb3kj xkcd 927
      "what do you mean there are 14 competing standards? that's too many we need a universal standard that everyone uses"
      2 weeks later: "there are now 15 competing standards"

    • @charlesnathansmith
      @charlesnathansmith 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +27

      It's built for the Internet, so it's designed to be compatible with as many different devices as possible. And isn't fully compatible with any of them

    • @bocoroth915
      @bocoroth915 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      @@Microphunktv-jb3kj It has one. It's called jQuery. Or in our case, jjQuery.

  • @a2xd94
    @a2xd94 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1188

    “Documentation…hehehehe”
    This hits way too hard

    • @NevelWong
      @NevelWong 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I don't get it. JSDoc has been the de-facto standard for longer than even Node has been around. It's so well implemented, it can even be used as a typescript replacement in both vscode and jetbrains. And you can generate an html documentation from it by just typing like 3 npm commands. How could this possibly be easier?

    • @somerandomchannel382
      @somerandomchannel382 2 ปีที่แล้ว +75

      ​@@NevelWong because.... they rewrite their codebase nine times each month. It's a little overstatement but yeah, if you have documentation, rewrite your code and update documentation, then do it again and again.. Documentation is just more work to rewrite when the updates come out. You can litterly write a perfect application today, Sleep for 3 months and come back that app is so outdated you need to update everything again...
      ITS SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS. NOT REACTIVE DEVELOPERS.

    • @thyscott6603
      @thyscott6603 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It's so truuu tho

    • @a2xd94
      @a2xd94 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      @@NevelWong its not about the tools, its about the workflow. Many teams that are staffed lean have the mentality of 'just ship it and we'll perfect later'...and later never comes

    • @wybren
      @wybren 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Documentation? The code is self explainable. For me atleast when I look at my code.

  • @Jared-Cruz
    @Jared-Cruz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2820

    “Nobody knows what type a variable is … I mean, we use typescript, and we still don’t know.” That part got me laughing so hard.

    • @xxwaldi
      @xxwaldi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +39

      cracked me up the way he delivered it

    • @Ryan-hp6xt
      @Ryan-hp6xt 2 ปีที่แล้ว +161

      This is so true though, I had such a hard time explaining this to people... Typescript is just design time guards, it doesn't really do anything at runtime, it's just developer time type checking basically.
      So if you have an http fetch to an interface in typescript and then it actually runs in the browser that api might return a field that's not on your typescript type, Javascript doesn't care, the field will be on the object even though typescript says it won't be.
      Typescript is really just to help developers write better code, it's like training wheels for developers. Putting training wheels on a bicycle doesn't mean it won't go 50mph down a hill and end up wrecking horribly in a ditch.

    • @nickjunes
      @nickjunes 2 ปีที่แล้ว +69

      Typescript is a great way to add a lot of complexity and boilerplate to a problem and then solve it half way.

    • @limbo3545
      @limbo3545 2 ปีที่แล้ว +41

      Expected null, received undefined and type is declared as unknown. I wonder why it doesn't work as expected...

    • @MunyuShizumi
      @MunyuShizumi ปีที่แล้ว +42

      @@Ryan-hp6xt Just use class-validator.
      Not that we do..

  • @tjkoury4543
    @tjkoury4543 ปีที่แล้ว +216

    I’ve started saying “I love it” when something explodes while I’m developing. This video is too accurate.

    • @AntonAdelson
      @AntonAdelson 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      👍👍👍😂😂

    • @temp50
      @temp50 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AntonAdelson I'm doing the same thing! I love it! :D

  • @EvilTim1911
    @EvilTim1911 2 ปีที่แล้ว +212

    Man you can't even write comedy this accurate without having spent years with JS

  • @joephus24
    @joephus24 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3512

    hahah, "no one really knows what the value is, until you get an error" 🙌absolutely killed it.

    • @lmaoiwaslikelmao1132
      @lmaoiwaslikelmao1132 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Lol

    • @marcgoodman4862
      @marcgoodman4862 2 ปีที่แล้ว +69

      It's funny because the code works perfectly when I put a breakpoint on line 32.

    • @JackPunter2012
      @JackPunter2012 2 ปีที่แล้ว +115

      @@marcgoodman4862 Well time to package up the debugger and ship it with the breakpoint lol

    • @joephus24
      @joephus24 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@JackPunter2012 lmaooo

    • @lot.bajrami
      @lot.bajrami 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Typescript helps alot, you can avoid these types of behaviour easily

  • @edez1t
    @edez1t 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1272

    "we rewrote our codebase around 9 times... THIS month" 😂😂

    • @MyBinaryLife
      @MyBinaryLife 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      that one had me dying

    • @22981991
      @22981991 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      his untrimmed beard is the witness of the endeavors

    • @MikkoRantalainen
      @MikkoRantalainen 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Seems legit.

    • @nicholas_as
      @nicholas_as ปีที่แล้ว +1

      so basically he rewrote his entire codebase every 3 days

    • @psymoozoo
      @psymoozoo ปีที่แล้ว

      I caught that too😂

  • @JanMichalSzulew
    @JanMichalSzulew 2 ปีที่แล้ว +339

    I can't believe how great this is. I've watched it 5 times since discovering it yesterday and I can't stop laughing out loud. I thought that the C++ developer was the best, but no, this one wins hands down. The editing is absolutely brilliant. One hell of a comedic genius, too bad this is such a niche subject. Kudos.

    • @bartzalewski
      @bartzalewski 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      agreed. this is brilliant comedic execution that so few people will understand.

    • @aylictal
      @aylictal 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      honestly he coulda just talked about npm or node_modules the entire time, let alone javascript as a whole, as its probably javascripts biggest fuckup pattern. the babel / typescript crap is funny too though.

    • @JanMichalSzulew
      @JanMichalSzulew 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@aylictal "JavaScript is probably biggest JavaScript's fuckup" does indeed sound like something straight out of this video :))) possibly with an editing cut after the first "JavaScript"

    • @terryriley6410
      @terryriley6410 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It's not a niche subject.

    • @terryriley6410
      @terryriley6410 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@aylictal npm is not owned or created by js. js' biggest fuckup would be anything related to the weak and quirky dynamic typing it has.

  • @silvanpaul2531
    @silvanpaul2531 ปีที่แล้ว +118

    the fact that this guy made a jjquery website just for this joke is dedication to the max

    • @Spax_
      @Spax_ หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      LMAOOOOOO best website ever actually

    • @Jestranged
      @Jestranged 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      honestly tho i'd just go straight to jkjquery

  • @kim_nguyen_
    @kim_nguyen_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2079

    "We had callback hell, and then we went to promises. Await came out, we went back to promises. And now we wrote everything back to callbacks... because it's just more comfortable." 🤣🤣 God dammit.

    • @romulloqueiroz
      @romulloqueiroz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +149

      At least you know it's bad...

    • @MrBrax
      @MrBrax 2 ปีที่แล้ว +58

      Promises and await are great

    • @marcgoodman4862
      @marcgoodman4862 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Savage.

    • @walterlotte4215
      @walterlotte4215 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@JDLuke Glad I don't have such a negative approach to learning. I enjoyed the process. Crazy that I needed less time than you, though, being a new dev. But that's probably because of the approach.

    • @magne6049
      @magne6049 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      pretty accurate tho

  • @pumaGCB
    @pumaGCB 2 ปีที่แล้ว +973

    I like the fact that out of all the parodies you made, the javascript guy feels the most deranged of them all, and this is exactly how I feel as a javascript dev.

    • @mikicerise6250
      @mikicerise6250 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      That's because you haven't met the Javascript guy who uses vim. ;)

    • @asimplenameichose151
      @asimplenameichose151 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      @@mikicerise6250 I am that guy

    • @Feedback406
      @Feedback406 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      🤣

    • @Hexanitrobenzene
      @Hexanitrobenzene ปีที่แล้ว +38

      The feeling of "derangeness" comes because the guy keeps contradicting himself.
      - Such a messy language... I love it ! :)

    • @mikicerise6250
      @mikicerise6250 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@Hexanitrobenzene No, I don't recommend it.

  • @ssjgogetta
    @ssjgogetta 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    "I still don't know how to fix peer dependencies to this day."
    I felt that.

  • @ijustsawthat
    @ijustsawthat 2 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    "I don't want to do the Sub Zero Fatality, I just want to show data in the table from the server."
    Best JS phrase I ever heard.

  • @KT-ut9zg
    @KT-ut9zg 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3739

    As a 'fullstack' JS developer I laughed so hard at this, all the way through until the end (but to be honest at the end I realise I was actually crying) XD

    • @Seanage
      @Seanage 2 ปีที่แล้ว +103

      Imagine spending nearly 2 decades in a strongly typed language and the jobs in JS simply are more common and pay more.. whelp, guess I'm in JS.

    • @sergiosegaty8367
      @sergiosegaty8367 2 ปีที่แล้ว +40

      Me too man. I mean, love TS, love JS, to death. Was the first language I noticed i was fluent. But man, all his points are true.

    • @ABC-ip6jq
      @ABC-ip6jq 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ???

    • @molomono9481
      @molomono9481 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@R67K There is a followup video, Junior JS developer, just for you.

    • @marcgoodman4862
      @marcgoodman4862 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Oh, you're a fullstack JS developer? You must know how the foreign language interface in C works then.

  • @mazymetric8267
    @mazymetric8267 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2312

    As Bjarne Stroustrup once said: "There are two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses".

    • @ds_7
      @ds_7 2 ปีที่แล้ว +151

      Kind of false, most people don’t think Python is crap, but everyone thinks JavaScript is crap

    • @mazymetric8267
      @mazymetric8267 2 ปีที่แล้ว +264

      ​@@ds_7
      There are definitely a lot of problems with python.
      It is slow.
      It's a scripting language so it doesn’t scale to large projects.
      It is only best for AI, data science. In most cases outside of those fields, it's not the best option available. For example:
      You can write native android/iOS apps in python but Swift/Java/Kotlin do it better.
      You can write cross-platform mobile apps in python but flutter does it better.
      You can write web apps in python but JS, php do it better.
      You can write rest apis in python using flask but spring boot does it better.
      Granted Python isn't hated as much as JS but there is a portion of devs that hate python with a passion.

    • @ds_7
      @ds_7 2 ปีที่แล้ว +60

      @@mazymetric8267 As I said, *most people* don’t think it’s crap. I never said it was the best choice for all use cases or that there aren’t haters. And Spring boot means you have to use Java -> I’d honestly rather quit programming forever than use Java, and this is coming from someone who grins and bears JS. And yes, I have written a bunch of Java. Ugh.

    • @aquarius_gaurav
      @aquarius_gaurav 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@ds_7 why do you hate to code in Java?

    • @ugurunver2403
      @ugurunver2403 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      There is also Python as a third kind.

  • @TheTwober
    @TheTwober ปีที่แล้ว +63

    As a senior developer I can confirm that this is exactly how JavaScript developers sound like.
    They make all these strange noises this guy makes, also they always seem to be busy rewriting their code to match some new library that came out.

  • @CyberTechBits
    @CyberTechBits 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    That first line...."I have three production outages named after me....four"... OMG I was rolling 😂

  • @happysunshinekid7184
    @happysunshinekid7184 2 ปีที่แล้ว +249

    "So the major version breaks our code but... our code breaks the minor version"

    • @bozhu9868
      @bozhu9868 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Best line out of many amazing ones

  • @mastornadettofernet
    @mastornadettofernet 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1389

    I have written javascript for the last 10 years and this is painfully accurate

    • @JC-hp7pc
      @JC-hp7pc 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      React has had essentially 0 breaking changes over several major versions. React 17 brought 0 new features, just switched the render functionality to babel so you don’t have to import the default react library. React is actually quite stable, that is one reason it destroyed Angular and Vue 3 is a fragmented dumpster fire now.

    • @alivepenmods
      @alivepenmods 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      @@JC-hp7pc It's not React alone that's the problem. It's the potentiation of the different JS tools and the disdain towards old-and-stable technologies that makes for a mess, especially when trying to apply client-side concepts to server scripts.

    • @JC-hp7pc
      @JC-hp7pc 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@alivepenmods Fair points. Personally I have always felt javascript data types were insufficient. Even with lodash, the tools for manipulating data are very under-developed. If javascript had an associative array, it would become 1 billion percent less awkward so you could avoid stuffing associated data into objects which have 0 tools for parsing. So when you look at what JavaScript was created with, it is easy to see why everyone decided “hey this language cannot do what I want, I am going to build an abstraction on top to try to make things easier.” JavaScript by itself feels incomplete.

    • @aylictal
      @aylictal 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@JC-hp7pc wtf are you talking about. objects are literally the definition of an associative array. if you need an ordered associative array there is map.

    • @JC-hp7pc
      @JC-hp7pc 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@aylictal wtf are you talking about. You cannot perform map, sort, forEach, etc on an object. You can transform it with Object.entries() if you want a key, value pair, but it doesn't return an associative array as the result after you map the object. An object is an associative array that you cannot perform data manipulation on. Javascript data manipulation is garbage and full of hacks.
      Tell me more about things I already know.

  • @daveice20
    @daveice20 ปีที่แล้ว +82

    I saw this video 1 year ago and I said to myself: "I'm going to learn programming with Javascript"
    At the time, I had no clue what 90% of this video meant, I just loved the chaotic nature and figured if the jokes are like this the job is probably for me.
    Now, I understand everything in this video, and it's just as funny as the 1st time I saw it with zero knowledge.

    • @theseangle
      @theseangle ปีที่แล้ว

      Lol I love your experience

    • @joshcarter-com
      @joshcarter-com 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Don’t say you weren’t warned…

    • @paultapping9510
      @paultapping9510 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      but was the industry for you?

    • @daveice20
      @daveice20 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@paultapping9510 yes, I enjoy it so much that I got my GED, now I'm enrolled in online uni for CompSci Bach; although, I likely won't stay Javascript long term as it's way too saturated for my tastes; lately I've been looking into ADA, and I've had PERL bookmarked for learning

  • @jkbenedict
    @jkbenedict ปีที่แล้ว +7

    "We rewrote everything back to callbacks" = GOLD!

  • @Katanotkate
    @Katanotkate 2 ปีที่แล้ว +92

    "Do you know there is a library for that?"
    This is soooo javascript

  • @nothke
    @nothke 2 ปีที่แล้ว +129

    Also sprinkling "rust" in the conversation as if it will solve every problem, but they haven't even tried it, is 100% accurate.

    • @felixjohnson3874
      @felixjohnson3874 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      "For the fifth consecutive year in a row 98% of JS devs say they plan on learning Rust sometime next year"

    • @segueoyuri
      @segueoyuri 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@felixjohnson3874 I'm not even sure JS devs are able to learn a language that actually works and is predictable. "What?? You can't compare NULL to an int?"

    • @arnerademacker
      @arnerademacker 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I have literally starting learning rust to spite the trend

    • @aoeu256
      @aoeu256 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@segueoyuriDoesn't Rust simply upfront all your problems into before your program compiles?

    • @segueoyuri
      @segueoyuri หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@aoeu256 I don't follow, my dear sir. What that has to do with anything I said?

  • @dahliaspumpski5837
    @dahliaspumpski5837 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is still absolute gold and I’ve rewatched it so many times

  • @WrestlingTournamentsDotCom
    @WrestlingTournamentsDotCom ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I keep coming back to this one. It's perfect.

  • @garrettgreen242
    @garrettgreen242 2 ปีที่แล้ว +126

    “It’s a bit hacky, I admit it... but JavaScript is hacky by design”

  • @joshuaalan7580
    @joshuaalan7580 2 ปีที่แล้ว +83

    "Node is technically multi-threaded"
    I've never felt so attacked by a portrayal in my life 🤣

  • @IsaacAbotsi
    @IsaacAbotsi ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Every sentence here is gold. Thank you so much for this caricature of our job!

  • @TGX999
    @TGX999 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Flipping dying.
    This is the best one you guys have done so far.
    Honestly thank you, hosing myself all the way through.

  • @ChessFlix
    @ChessFlix 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1125

    Ha, lot of these are really funny.
    "We use typescript, and still don't know the types"
    "I still don't know how to fix peer dependencies to this day"

    • @flying-sheep
      @flying-sheep 2 ปีที่แล้ว +68

      hey, yarn 2 actually fixes peer dependencies.
      shame that it breaks everything else though

    • @Melvin420x12
      @Melvin420x12 2 ปีที่แล้ว +89

      npm audit fix and then it tells you to fix it manually so you just give up

    • @macicoinc9363
      @macicoinc9363 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@flying-sheep You win some, you lose some.

    • @matzieq
      @matzieq 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@flying-sheep I love it!

    • @Kevin-jc1fx
      @Kevin-jc1fx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      It's reassuring to know that seniors face the same harshness from JavaScript. 😂

  • @habibsspirit
    @habibsspirit 2 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    JavaScript is like smoking crack. It's good at first but eventually it starts destroying your life.

  • @horusOsiris22
    @horusOsiris22 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    You are a legend sir. I return to this video periodically and somehow it just gets funnier

  • @BenjaminMaggi
    @BenjaminMaggi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Been doing exclusively JS for over 10 years now, and this is 100% accurate !

  • @nikitak9628
    @nikitak9628 2 ปีที่แล้ว +756

    This skit is hilarious. Also quite realistic. Keep em coming!

    • @leyasep5919
      @leyasep5919 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      it is hilarious BECAUSE it is eerily realistic.
      It might even BE the reality.

    • @leyasep5919
      @leyasep5919 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Bunty793 if you're starting the ad hominems, who am I to take such an advice from a gamer ? ;-)
      Oh that might be why your sarcasm translator would be off, which is risky on such a website.

  • @RonAday
    @RonAday 2 ปีที่แล้ว +105

    "I have three production outages named after me". ROFL. I am a Systems Architect w 30 actual years of experience (I'm old). I can vet all of the videos on this channel as being 100% spot on. PERFECT.

    • @rykehuss3435
      @rykehuss3435 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Four

    • @Hexanitrobenzene
      @Hexanitrobenzene ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Oh, he said "outages"... hilarious :)
      Thank you for pointing out.

  • @chubbyBunny94
    @chubbyBunny94 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I’m a frontend designer ( making things look pretty) but somehow got a job as a junior software engineer. And this skit is 100% accurate. This dev teams methods are nonsensical. If there’s a way to overengineer something, they will do it. Every Friday in our tech stand ups, they’re always talking about the lasted ‘cool’ new package, that come out 30-seconds ago, to ram into the enterprise-grade application. Boy, if only the CEO would see the people that are leading his products development.

  • @bobblue_west
    @bobblue_west 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    0:30 Did you know JS was written in 7 days?
    Handel wrote the entire score for his Messiah Requiem in just 24 days. 53 movements for full orchestra. So of course a tidily-wink language like JavaScript could be run off in a week.
    It was done by copy and pasting the Java compiler and taking out type checking and casting.
    (BTW: I copy and pasted the previous sentence from a History of JS website. But then most of programming career was just copy and paste from Stackoverflow.)

    • @dekumarademosater2762
      @dekumarademosater2762 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      "We need a scripting language in the browser. Yesterday."
      "Oh, ok, Scheme then."
      "NO! It needs to be new, and modern, and Java-like!"
      "Scheme with Java syntax, ok."
      "And objects! It must have objects!"
      "Oh. You realise that'll double the time, right? Really, this could blow out to, uh, 4 weeks."

  • @hasancanboga7976
    @hasancanboga7976 2 ปีที่แล้ว +610

    We definitely need a PHP version of this

    • @none42069
      @none42069 2 ปีที่แล้ว +78

      It’s been a few decades my friend

    • @cdickson627
      @cdickson627 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Oof

    • @worstedwoolens
      @worstedwoolens 2 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      @@none42069 tell that to e-commerce

    • @Masniization
      @Masniization 2 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      @@none42069 well, WP is basically half of the internet, which is written in php

    • @jerrygreenest
      @jerrygreenest 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      PHP version of JavaScript already happen. That was when we switched from SPA to MPA.

  • @jamesmcgeachie
    @jamesmcgeachie 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    "this is not production code... it will be tomorrow though"

  • @jasonma1904
    @jasonma1904 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I laughed at every single word of this video. Love it. Thanks for making this brilliant video on TH-cam.

  • @ThePhyskid
    @ThePhyskid 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    This is brilliant. This perfectly represents my experience with JS.

  • @yourix2
    @yourix2 2 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    "Atleast you know its bad." I felt this one

  • @frankhu5418
    @frankhu5418 2 ปีที่แล้ว +148

    I've watched this three times. This is a work of art.
    JavaScript, I love it.

    • @BboyKeny
      @BboyKeny 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Same I love JS and don't recommend it. If you can't understand why NaN doesn't equal NaN because NaN is a number and therefore it is not NaN, then why even program?

    • @GiI11
      @GiI11 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Do I recommend it? No.

    • @leoMC4384
      @leoMC4384 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Do you have another option?? No.
      Such a messy language... I love it.

    • @VeytorVellah
      @VeytorVellah 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      To be honest, NaN != NaN is a requirement of IEEE 754 and not a fault of Javascript. You get the same in C, Java, Rust...

    • @Hewanliar1
      @Hewanliar1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Do I reccomend it? undefined

  • @jamescomstock7299
    @jamescomstock7299 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I nearly chocked to death watching this video. 11/10 would and did watch again.

  • @asimplenameichose151
    @asimplenameichose151 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Senior JS engineer here - this is so accurate I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry :D

  • @L-E-son
    @L-E-son 2 ปีที่แล้ว +92

    this has got to be one of the funniest programming-related skits I've ever seen

  • @neociber24
    @neociber24 2 ปีที่แล้ว +65

    Why use Typescript when you can just compile your JS to TS and them transpile it to ES6

  • @ascourter
    @ascourter ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh man, I was on the floor laughing for most of this. Great video and excellent delivery!

  • @vampyweekies
    @vampyweekies ปีที่แล้ว

    Always love to come home and kick back with a cold one and this vid after a long day of trying to figure out how to fix something that has a lot of busted dependencies (and giving up, and just rewriting it obviously)

  • @baumannalexj
    @baumannalexj 2 ปีที่แล้ว +628

    Made me cry: "transpile it to es5, load it with system.js, file for bankruptcy, bundle it all up with webpack"
    I set up a build pipeline and was proud that I learned all these steps needed. Created a PR, and got a "☹️ approved."

    • @KingJellyfishII
      @KingJellyfishII 2 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      Don't forget filing for bankruptcy, it's the most important step

    • @knuffle9872
      @knuffle9872 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@KingJellyfishII
      This step is optional, but you'd have to rewrite the codebase to make it more stable so that you don't have to rewrite it again... till next month.

    • @ReshiramR52
      @ReshiramR52 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@KingJellyfishII Maybe I don't get the joke but why is it an important step? In case something goes wrong?

    • @KingJellyfishII
      @KingJellyfishII 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ReshiramR52 oh it's just a joke because they're spending so much time rewriting the codebase that they don't have enough money to survive so they must file for bankruptcy

    • @Hewanliar1
      @Hewanliar1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@ReshiramR52 its a joke. It basically declare your company dead. nothing to do with the code.

  • @deem3365
    @deem3365 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    4:29 "Documentation? *Nervous laugh*"
    too real man... too real...

  • @Anonymous-nj2ow
    @Anonymous-nj2ow ปีที่แล้ว +3

    my senior project was in node/js/express, i've never self taught anything so quick in my life, and it was still a struggle. LUCKILY theres like 100k tutorials out there for some version of whatever monster you're putting together for basic stuff.
    but man when i got express working it was like hallelujah

    • @YourWishes
      @YourWishes ปีที่แล้ว +2

      *whatever.js

  • @_ceo9920
    @_ceo9920 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Easily his best so far... the perl one was hilarious but this is truly a work of art. Genius!

  • @promisesheggs8863
    @promisesheggs8863 2 ปีที่แล้ว +88

    Watching this as a Full Stack dev and realizing how true and funny this is, you are great man, I love this channel and your contents, you got me cracking today

    • @marcgoodman4862
      @marcgoodman4862 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Oh, you're a full stack dev? You must know how the C foreign language interface works then.

  • @nikosgiaglis9027
    @nikosgiaglis9027 2 ปีที่แล้ว +121

    Just watched it 3 times straight. This guy is a genius.

    • @JanMichalSzulew
      @JanMichalSzulew 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I'm on my 6th rewatch and I still keep literally LOLing. The editing is brilliant.

  • @thecoderui
    @thecoderui 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    We need another one for Interview with Senior Android Developer

  • @soulrecalibration
    @soulrecalibration 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I've watched this over 9 times since yesterday and I still can't stop laughing. Please make a making of of this.

  • @TheSpacecraftX
    @TheSpacecraftX 2 ปีที่แล้ว +271

    A lot more honest about the JS shortcomings than most JS developers.

    • @kathrynnlynn9790
      @kathrynnlynn9790 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      tbh, most of the time, you either get people who don't understand the language, so when it does something they don't expect they bitch about it, or you get people who evangelize the hell out of the language and think it needs to be used everywhere.
      everyone else just does their job and doesn't make opinion posts on the internet about the hammer they happen to be using at the time.

    • @justSomeUserOnYT
      @justSomeUserOnYT 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      ​@@kathrynnlynn9790 you hit the nail on the head (no pun intended).
      These arguments about which language is good, better, best is really non productive and just confuses new developers.
      Find the best tool for the job, and use it. You don't need to compare it to other tools; there are simply too many now.

    • @HerbertBraun
      @HerbertBraun 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      The problem is not the language (it's not perfect but what is) - it's the ecosystem which got out of control. And that's what this video is about. (And about null, of course ...)

    • @ilikecanes
      @ilikecanes 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kathrynnlynn9790 based take

    • @TeaRm34paRt
      @TeaRm34paRt ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@kathrynnlynn9790 but it helps us newbies when other people share personal ins and outs about using that hammer, even if they cannot explain them in detail. We learn by example even from bad examples.

  • @logiconabstractions6596
    @logiconabstractions6596 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    "No one really knows what the value is. Until we get an error"
    Sounds about right, yes.

  • @GudieveNing
    @GudieveNing ปีที่แล้ว

    The very point this hilarious video makes is what I hinted at to one of our engineers a few days ago in a lengthy warning about the flaws of not applying the vertical integration strategy.

  • @rabumalal
    @rabumalal 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is gold. Thank you!

  • @mrdesperate1
    @mrdesperate1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +186

    As a "modern" UI engineer that specializes in all things javascript. I absolutely loved this. And yes, it is accurate.

    • @TheCsakbalint
      @TheCsakbalint 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      uI eNgInEeR

    • @niazfaridani-rad2147
      @niazfaridani-rad2147 2 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      @@TheCsakbalintBro, you can't even center a div.

    • @TheCsakbalint
      @TheCsakbalint 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@niazfaridani-rad2147 nice reaction :D

    • @Xfacta12482
      @Xfacta12482 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      ​@@TheCsakbalint fRoNt EnD dEv Is EaSy
      > ships electron notetaking app w/ 100% RAM usage

  • @gregm1457
    @gregm1457 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Best javascript documentation ive ever heard

  • @vladoz9299
    @vladoz9299 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I learned Doug Crockford vanilla JS like 10 years ago. Also used jQuery and Bootstrapjs. This is crazy already

  • @mwdcodeninja
    @mwdcodeninja 2 ปีที่แล้ว +64

    I have been up to my eyeballs in JS infrastructure for years. Everything this man said is correct.

  • @xynko4513
    @xynko4513 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    As a DevOps Engineer the "Documentation?.. heh heh.." part gets me every time.

  • @phee3D
    @phee3D 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I worked as web developer for 4-5 years, started with vanilla js, html and css. Ended with vanilla js html and scss. This video makes me feel good about my choices, frameworks felt over complicated, unnecessary and unstable. Even typescript feels very hacky and janky, used it for a bit then got sick of wrangling with it.
    My final verdict is to not use javascript anywhere except for making web pages (web pages, not web applications) and when you do use it, use it without any frameworks/libs. Js is great for doing that. For other applications use languages better suited for those tasks. Don't abuse js, it's been through too much already.

    • @jextra1313
      @jextra1313 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Vanilla JS/HTML/CSS can do anything you'd ever want in the DOM. If you want backend, use PHP and an SQL server. This is how the web should be structured, not because I said so, but because these are the technologies that the web is designed for, they have the most documentation, and it has been proven over decades that they work. Typescript tries something that will never work because JS wasn't designed with types in mind.
      Very few people actually care about getting good at Vanilla JS, they want to `improve` JS, even though JS is the only thing in the JS ecosystem that isn't broken.
      Package managers have ruined any hope of an understandable, standardized web dev methodology. JS devs are fueled by chaos for some reason.

  • @williamcraigz
    @williamcraigz 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This is so accurate, scary, depressing and funny at the same time.

  • @neuzen
    @neuzen 2 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    Senior JS dev is actually 19 yo guy w/o beard.

    • @jean4j_
      @jean4j_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Looool 😂

  • @TheOriginalJohnDoe
    @TheOriginalJohnDoe 2 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    As someone who has spent years and years of working as a front-end dev, this hurts on another level, I can tell you that.

  • @maddman0
    @maddman0 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Honestly, I come back to this video every time I need to a boost in my day

  • @luishenriquetrindadedepaula
    @luishenriquetrindadedepaula 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I just can't stop to watch this vídeo over and over again, I back to this vídeo monthly, it's a masterpiece!

  • @taoteg1941
    @taoteg1941 2 ปีที่แล้ว +201

    This is 100% my life every single day (just add a little Python to spice up the back end). You had me rolling I was laughing so hard. I almost spit out my coffee.... almost.

    • @aryanmn1569
      @aryanmn1569 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      And I love it 😂

    • @mon0t0n
      @mon0t0n 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      And you like Zidialav Beksinski...
      I like you :)

    • @rossgeography
      @rossgeography 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      php as horrible as that syntax is (possibly uglier than javascript) at least you can avoid A LOT of this JS framework/library nonsense (people seem largely settled on Laravel/Composer as the framework - though it did go through these JS growing pains)

    • @jerrygreenest
      @jerrygreenest 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Don't spit your coffeescript

    • @somedatussr4323
      @somedatussr4323 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Javaspit

  • @millertime6
    @millertime6 2 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    “Load it with system JS, file for bankruptcy, load it all up with webpack…” I choked when I heard this 😂

    • @thatryanp
      @thatryanp 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      How did we end up here? Who is steering this ship? Oh well, hopefully there's a zero config bundler that will fix it all

  • @shambhangal438
    @shambhangal438 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    'No one really knows what the value is... until they get the error'.
    Genius.

  • @James-fe7wd
    @James-fe7wd ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This has me in stitches every time I watch it. What a painful course of life.

  • @timvigneau867
    @timvigneau867 2 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    “all of this just to avoid using jQuery” lol

    • @rebeccakeller4666
      @rebeccakeller4666 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Felt it was missing an inserted "..but we still use jQuery" - because, like, of course there's still jquery floating around in the codebase. This video was 🔥🔥🔥 so painful it hurt. I love the "we don't use global variables.. it must be in window...." 🤣

  • @AntonioSantos-ve6zv
    @AntonioSantos-ve6zv 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Nice! These doubts down the road are exponentially bigger for learners like me...doubts/issues that set you up all the time!

  • @quachhengtony7651
    @quachhengtony7651 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I didn't hear any "blazingly fast"

  • @dipeshsapkota6168
    @dipeshsapkota6168 ปีที่แล้ว

    We need part 2 of thisss ,pls man from one js dev to another one .
    This speaks all though 🙌 👏 👌 🤣 😂 💯

  • @Ordnas95
    @Ordnas95 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    "Global variables? no one uses them"
    "it must be somewhere in the window"
    XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

  • @thebibeksaha
    @thebibeksaha 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    This channel is going to blow up bro.. quality content

  • @miguelescalantemilke7204
    @miguelescalantemilke7204 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    “All of this just to avoid using Jquery”

  • @77thTrombone
    @77thTrombone 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Yeah, I worked for a web app co for a few l years. Hired to code one language, but that changed before I was there 2 weeks-and I was in the back end! Even in the back end, the library bloat was incredible.

  • @gozhora6451
    @gozhora6451 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    "Noone knows what the value is until we get an error" too trueeee!

  • @tacokoneko
    @tacokoneko 2 ปีที่แล้ว +81

    I primarily use C, C++, Rust, PowerPC assembly and it's clear this channel writer uses javascript the most because his javascript ones are the best

    • @HermanWillems
      @HermanWillems 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      yeah :D no wonder its the most used language.

    • @theterribleanimator1793
      @theterribleanimator1793 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      "PowerPC assembly" jesus fucking christ. Hope they are paying you well.

    • @RiwenX
      @RiwenX 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I use Rust for almost everything these days

    • @HermanWillems
      @HermanWillems 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RiwenX it can be broadly applied from embedded to front end...

    • @SnowyPup
      @SnowyPup 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Have you ever tried intel itanium assembly? Also, that’s cool, I used to have an iMac G4 and an Xserve G5 dual core

  • @moustafamohsen
    @moustafamohsen ปีที่แล้ว +3

    ""I still don't know how to fix peer dependencies to this day"" The best line

  • @srele96
    @srele96 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    love it, been smiling during the whole video :D

  • @EvanBoldt
    @EvanBoldt 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    “We actually use typescript. We still don’t know what the types are.”

  • @aronsz
    @aronsz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    i like how 'filing for bankruptcy' is just another part of their workflow.

  • @nickthomas1759
    @nickthomas1759 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is the best video I have seen in my live. I'm happy and can die now! Bravo!

  • @N....
    @N.... 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    3:32 "Global variables? No one uses them." "It must be somewhere in the `window`..." LOL