Great video! You remind us that these old rifles aren't just outdated , antiquated relics of a time past, but rather a snapshot of history. The science and attention to detail you display in your videos show how at one time these ruled the battlefield and have interwoven themselves into our history as Canadians. Point of interest, my grandfather shot his first whitetail with a snider Enfield 😉. Keep up the great work Rob, and I'll be damned if the federal government shouldn't give you some sort of grant to help your research, 🤔
Thanks Matt. You are very kind with your take on the channel. Grant? This government? Not a snowball's chance in hell, I fear... :-) Though, wouldn't that be cool..... the possibilities...
Hiya Rob,again another great show.I spoke with you a few days ago regarding problems with my P/HNaval model .Just to let you know that your Gods smiled upon me over here in France this last Sunday.Admittedly it was only @50m but I achieved my best group since owning it 7 shots (!) in a two inch group due to a severe reduction in powder from 65grns to 40 of Swiss.It was a long time in finding out about this rifles peculiarities but a great relief to me because I know how well these rifles are built.Cheers and thanks again Kevin.
I used to shoot muzzleloaders for fun and in competition at the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association in Friendship, Indiana and I know how much of a pain they can be. You don't know frustration until you put all your efforts into consistently cleaning, loading, and firing just to miss then, cleaning again, loading again, and firing again just to miss again. Especially when you have a bad day and you can't seem to shoot for shit no matter what, that's when you think "Man this sucks. Why am I doing this anyway? I just want to go home." I know the feeling, that's why I don't shoot much at the NMLRA these days. So, sincerely, with the utmost respect and empathy, thank you for your efforts, they are greatly appreciated.
It never ceases to amaze me, the fact that you can actually SEE the bullet dropping onto the target! So often we think of projectiles as flying way too fast to see but these old war horses, despite being slower and more cumbersome, still prove that they can hit like Mike Tyson! Also, you're patience is beyond compare, sir! I know for a fact that I would have lost my rag by the second day and launched the rifle into the valley and left it there forever more! Hahahaha Just goes to prove though, that a methodical approach is the ONLY way to succeed! We all salute your tenacity, I'm certain. Much love.
Seeing the bullet does depend on the lighting being just so and the range being of a decent stretch... and typically you can only see it on video or if you we looking through binoculars... That said, they aren't going that fast. Glad you enjoyed it!
So glad I found this channel, you can really tell how much care and devotion you put into your videos. The editing and production value is worthy of 1 million subscribers.
Very happy you enjoy things here on the Channel. You kind sentiments are very appreciated. What brought you here? A search for "rich, Corinthian leather"?.... :-)
I finally got a Parker hale 2 band, I will be doing a living impression of an Imperial Japanese rifleman Bakufu during the Boshin war of 1868-69. who had been armed with Enfield rifles. In time I will do a British Ghurka as well. Thank you for the videos! It made me committed to Black powder!!
Excellent videos. Viewed quite a few of them and found them to be very informative. Cleared a number doubts that I had of certain weapons. Thanks a lot for your efforts.
Another beautifully done with attention to historical detail video! I'll bet those flies are nasty out there. Thanks for all of your hard work and passion that you place into your videos! Cheers from Florida.
awesome, remember a bad days shooting is far better than a good day working. Also I too am a big fan of the .303 case and oily rag for blackening sights!
Another great video. When ever I see one of you're videos in my subscription list it brightens the day! You certainly showed dedication with that pesky p61 there. I'd have given up after 40 shots haha. However an excuse to head up into thoes hills and shoot would change that I suppose.
Really awesome video, extremely informational and well executed. This dude is a BOSS and I'm sure his shoulder was sore after this. I really appreciate the time and effort put into this, like wow. Love it, and he helped me decide to get one too. Thanks comrade in arms
Enjoy your videos. I had a Springfield 1863 replica, but it was hopelessly inaccurate. I now shoot a model 1863 Sharps 3 band military rifle that is very accurate.
YOU keep an OAP in uk very happy.just love thing's that go bang.with or with out wheels.thank for all the effort and info you put in to your videos..THANKS
I never realized how tall and heavy these rifles are like I'm 5'6 and I recently got to hold a Enfield and the thing felt 7 feet tall and you just carry it along with such ease like it's as light as a feather.
Hi Rob, everytime I log in on TH-cam I first look (with great hope) if you uploaded a new video. It's the months event on TH-cam! Your videos are unbeatable! I would be glad if you expand your topic to French or German muzzleloaders some Time. Especially German, because the German states issued different calibres and weapons to their men and did not only used the Minie-Bullet. ;D
As much as I appreciate other countries weaponry, and I do find them interesting, I find that I am not quite "there" yet. The Dreyse, in particular has a bit of a draw to my ammunition manufacturing side, for sure!
I must admit I enjoy watching these videos immensely. I haven't gotten in to black powder yet, mainly staying with my Mk1 No3 and my Mk4 No1 Enfields. But what I enjoy is how you present how these were used in the order of the day. Not just load and shoot but kit and drill as well. Have you or do you have any plans or thoughts on possibly doing a video on the (I believe) P37 equipment? Little new for what you normally do but I would love to learn how it was configured and worn. With the overwhelming amount of information on the web hard to know what is accurate and what isn't.
Hi Mike. Glad you enjoy things here on the channel. I have a set of '37 but I typically don't use it much .... Maybe one day, when I do a No 4 video... Sound OK?
Man..I love watching your video's. Only problem is I get the 'gotta-have-its' for a black powder firearm and, as my wife says, I already have too many modern ones. :) Great video!
You know, if she doesn't give in, then she'll have to listen to all the wishing, and pining, and overall grumpiness that comes with not having one.... :-)...... Her choice.... haha.. Thanks!
Really nice these videos! I'm watching them all! I like to see the operation of the British and Scottish army weapons, with these reconstructions that make us live the historical context in which they were used!
Thanks! Just to be clear.... there was no "Scottish" (National) Army in the Victorian era..... :-)... Scottish units in the British Army (and about the Empire), yes...
Excellent and Truly scientific Outdoor tests...your shoulder must be Blue after this. I am a BLBPcart. Conversion collector ( Sniders,Albinis Springfield Trap Door, etc.) and I intend using a similar test schedule on my rifles. Thanks again, Saved to my HD. Doc AV
First off, You make wonderful videos! Secondly, you have nerves of steel with all the bugs flying around lol... and I thought we had it bad here in Louisiana.
I absolutely love this channel! This is the closest we'll get to the School of Musketry at Hythe! I have a reproduction of the P53 manufactured by ArmiSport/Chiappa. After googling the barrel stamps, it appears it was manufactured in 1977! I bought this rifle new, in the box, in 1993. I realise the Parker Hales is the best, but could you give your opinion on the quality of these old ArmiSport guns, please? Very best regards, JA
HI there. I have never owned an Armi-Sport P53. I have owned a Euroarms version though... the bore was very large at around .582 and getting bullets to properly fit was a bit of a chore. The lock was serviceable but lacked the solid feeling that an original or, to some extent, a PH lock has. It was a fun way to get my feet wet in the era, for sure.
Noticing the movement of vegetation in the background, I wonder how much wind drift plagues shooting results in your tests? Anyway, a thoroughly entertaining and informative video, as usual!
The wind was not inconsiderable but quite consistent, so it's effect would have been equal for both rifles and for all, if not most, of the rounds... May have impacted the MPI, of course.
I think that this shows that the difference between the two isn't as pronounced as one might expect. Not definitive, of course, but interesting none the less.
Hello Mr. Rob, I really enjoy your shooting, reloading and historical videos. I really want to get started on muzzleloader and I was wondering where you buy those beautiful rifle. cheers Fred
Puzzled by the sudden deterioration of the P-61's group as it seemed to be doing very well in the beginning. Did something come loose that shouldn't have? Plowing through clouds of insects perhaps? I lived 10yrs in the E. Kootenays, I can relate.
yet another great video ,very interesting, and I load my springfield with 63 grains of F2 I'm now thinking to drop down to 60 grains of f2, something to look forward to and practiceone day I will get around to buying a three band p60, Thank'you.
Hi Paul. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks. If there is no reason to change the charge then don't, I say... If you are going to, then make sure to pick a range and test each load to find the best performing one... Then you'll get the most satisfaction from you rifle. By the way, there is no such thing as three band P60... All three band Enfield are P53s... :-)
hello, thank 'you I meant the last of the 3 band parker hale Enfields , they hold there value here in Europe and are not cheap, but to have a rifle the was built with the original tools from the 1850s must be worth waiting for ......................................... my Minie balls after casting are recalibured to .577ins.. and weigh 620 grains......my shots with 63gns of 2f went allways top right of the target that's a 100cm by 100cm target at 100 meters distance. obvioursly holding bottom left corner to get the shots in the middle and I haven't being able to get my group tighter than 8ins. i'll keep watching your videos..that's part of the fun and adds to my intrest in black powder shooting.
Paul Newmarch Wow.. That's one heavy bullet! Must have quite a wallop. As you have experienced, these rifles typically shoot high.. Have you measured the bore? You should be able to get things down to about 6"... In my experience, that's about as good as they get, and that is WAY better than the historical standard. That's with minimum 10 rounds. If your Figure of Merit gets to around 2" then I found that's where things seem to top out. Cheers, and happy shooting!
britishmuzzleloaders I'm also really starting to appreciate "figure of merit" in the past I never gave such formulas much "merit" but as your videos have shown it does help simplify the process of comparing groups.
murpheysmuskets Not to harp, but the FoM really is a better way to judge how well a rifle is shooting. It does, however, need a little more effort to get it, what with all the calculations. After that is done though, it's all there for you to see!
Rob, Seems like you might be a bit partial to the 2 band rifle since it got 3 chances to the 3 band one chance :). Also how about the wind humidity conditions each day?. Those flys look like they would drive me crazy :)
Tell me about it, eh?... Things were a bit blustery but not ridiculously so. The weather ws good for the "shorts" outings, and cloudy and wet for the "pants" outing.... The bugs were really bad, but I bathed in bug dope and that kept them at bay enough to concentrate for a shot.... :-)
In regards to your P53, at what range did you zero your rifle? And what sight picture did you use? I would assume I should use a 100 yd zero with a half sight. Under the premise of the three sight pictures referenced, Fine, Half and Full. I have a just installed new sights on my P53 Repro and will be zeroing it in soon. I will be using the Pritchett rounds from PaperCartirdges and a load of 60 grn FFF. is this a good load workup to start with? Sorry for the extensive amount of questions.
Remember that every rifle will have it's own sweet spot, which will probably not correspond to anything historical. My P53 has a slightly modified backsight in order to get a better zero. It has a very small notch and therefore only has one sight picture. It is zeroed at 100 with a 6 o/clock hold. Somewhere between 50 and 70 gr FFg or slightly less of FFFg will be the range of loads for most work up activities..
@@britishmuzzleloaders I'm still confused on the metal of the hardware, the barrel twist rates, the sight gradations, etc. I feel like there could be a great dedicated video that shows the lineage and differences of these guns.
I actually have the 2 band version, I reenact as a Jäger, and for now I will keep use it (waiting for the money for a Jägerstutzen) thanks for all the infos
@@britishmuzzleloaders I know this is a very late comment, sorry for that. You just keep watching these great videos over and over again and always learning something new! Came to mind, the traditional way to blacken sights in Finland was to set piece of birch bark on fire and use that. Makes very heavy matte black soot, great on sights. Try it, you may just like it! 😀
Wonderful,informative video,but...can you tell me why some of the Jocks in the old photos had wonderful,bushy beards and others just moustaches and sideburns ? Was the first obligatory or was it just the fashion of the day for certain regiments ? Again,lovely vids.
Beards have been a fashion that has come and gone and come and gone. They first became fashionable during and after the Crimea (where they were actually beneficial) and there after, mostly on active service. It seems to have died out by the 1890s, service hardships aside...
Thanks for this video, Rob. It is one of the first to spark an interest (my wife calls it an obsession) with these Enfield rifle muskets. I thought the artillery carbine, or musketoon, was the P61, and the two band was the P58. Did the artillery carbine come out at the same time as the improved P58? It looks like you shot the same Pritchett cartridges in both rifles. Have you tried a minie or trashcan bullet in the shorter rifle? I'd be very happy if I got your results at 100 yards. I wouldn't even attempt 300 yards at this point. Well done.
The modern and commonly understood designation for these rifles comes from the Parker Hale model line produced in the 1970s. It does not reflect the actual extent of the family or arms. The patterns produced were (here goes)...... The P53 Rifle-Musket, P53 Artillery Carbine, P55 Sappers and Miners Carbine (Lancaster) (later Royal Engineers), P56 Short Rifle, P56 Cavalry Carbine, P58 Short Rifle (Bar on Band), P58 Naval Rifle, P60 Short Rifle, P61 Short Rifle, P61 Artillery Carbine, the P61 Cavalry Carbine.
Beautifully shot (pun intended) and as always very informative. And I know the the fickle nature of the muzzleloader gods all too well, sometimes they give me hell too. Defiance like you've shown is the only way!
Another excellent video mate. The interesting part is that even the worst grouping seems to have put enough shots into a group comparable to your upper body at 300 yards to show a competent rifleman would take a static man sized target down with most shots. I wouldnt want to be the poor sucker charging a line of Victoran riflemen armed with the Enfield.
I was wondering what exactly you were using for ammunition and where to possibly get a mould! I have two p53 3 band enfields and ive tried using two different types of ammunition and both unfortunately are very inaccurate and seeing the results of what your using I would definitely be interested in at least giving the pritchett a go. if you wouldnt mind throwing a bit of info at me id be much obliged sir!
Hi there. There are a number of videos (admittedly quite old) on the Channel dealing with what I use for the Enfield series of rifles. That said, the only commercially available mould is from NOE as of now. They offer a .55 and a .568 version... be careful with the latter as your paper needs to be quite thin in order for it to work. Thee .55 version performed better with a base plug that can be made with NOEs plug mould.
The Army of Northern Virginia tested rifle accuracy and determined that the 2 band Enfield was best so they tried to reserve these for their sharpshooters. Their testing had the advantage of using multiple new rifles.
"Shock Troops of the Confederacy" by Fred Ray. "...the superiority of the Enfield rifle for service at long range, from 600 to 900 yards, was clearly demonstrated..." "Every short Enfield which came into possession of any of our men was taken away and given to these men (the sharpshooters)". A soldier in Mahone's brigade reported that the sharpshooters used "a long English-made cartridge. We never used any ammunition made by the Confederate government." I would swear that I had seen another report about the testing but couldn't find it in my books. Of course, it may have been on a website. You might also be interested that they reported sharpshooters firing at such long range that they set their sights to max range, then aimed at the tops of the trees behind their targets. PS Looked some more and found that the quote about "superiority of the Enfield" seems to have come from "Lee's Sharpshooters" by Major Dunlop. He was describing a demo during training in 1864. Sharpshooter units had been formed in 1862 so there must have been earlier demonstrations. @@britishmuzzleloaders
This is like looking through a window in time to the School of Musketry at Hythe Outstanding channel! Where can I get a mould to make Pritchetts for my enfield?JA!
It's from many different places and some of it is made by me (most of the belts). The cartridge pouch and expense pouch are from a company called heritage leather that sadly is no longer trading. High quality stuff though.
You know as an American Civil War reenactor I did find a bullet that were fired from the P56 short rifle at Gettysburg and I still own that bullet today
@@ReconstructedYankee1882 Wait,... it said on a label that it had been fired by someone 200-50 yds away from where it was found, during one of the most intense battles of the American Civil War?.... Sorry,... not a chance.
Thanks! I have a couple Springfield replicas, but due to watching your videos, I really want to get into the history, and shooting of the Enfield rifled muskets. Keep the videos coming!!
Very nice and interesting...but it seemed like the 61 got more of an opportunity to get settled 8n than the 53...the 53 only got one round, seems like the 53 with the longer barrel would be more accurate...enjoyed it
Yes, you are right.. a more comprehensive test would be required to arrive at a more definitive conclusion... They shoot about the same as the P61 has a faster twist and heavier barrel.
I do have to say you have the most prettiest shooting ranges ever. Need to break out .my 2 banded Enfield. Down here below your below your boarder (U.S.) They call almost all two banded Zoave's, which i do not get as there are No Nomenclatured Rifles I can find with that.
I have two questions here. Number one, if you were to go on a deer hunt with either rifle would you take the P53 or the P61 ? Secondly number two, I have been looking into getting a 2 band or 3 Band Enfield rifle. Should I aim for an original or settle with a reproduction ? If reproduction is Parker Hale the best one out there out of them all ? Thank you for the great video. I cant get enough of these videos, because of your content Ive stopped using modern firearms for hunting and target competitions and have started going into Muzzleloading. Your Snider Vids made me drive the State of Virginia to pick up an 1857 Snider Rifle and I watched your vids to reload for them. Next up is going to be a ML Enfield and a Martini. If only I had enough rifle assembly knowledge to build a Baker Rifle kit from the Rifle Shoppe.
Is it likely that your powder charge was the principle pest in your calculations ? I've understood that at ranges greater than 200 yards, "Lighter" charges tend to be much more affected by weather (wind, direction of wind, humidity, and optical distortions not consciously noticed by the shooter) ?
The loads for each rifle were arrived at after many hundreds of rounds using all kinds of combinations... I am confident that they represent the best for each rifle.... :-) Both rifles have been shot regularly at 300 using the gong and part of my frustration was that the Short Rifle was off it's zero when that load and sight setting typically get the job done.... That's the muzzleloading Gods for you.... Cheers.
You know, I haven't... I always go for the best performing load and that is typically less than the service version... Chances are that they are shooting a bit slower.. They are still good for 700yds...!
@@britishmuzzleloaders Nice! The closest reproduction sling I could find is by S. E. Libby & Co.. I finally got it in the mail today after waiting three long months, but its constructed identical to yours except its in black leather.
I have a question. It's known that the P58 with its faster twist and 5 groove barrel is more accurate than the P53 then why did they use the P53 at all after it was known?
After the research I have done, the difference between the two is surprisingly small. This test sort of proves it.... The real difference is between the slow twist short rifles (the P56/58) and the fast twist ones (the P58 Naval, P60/61). This is supported by practice and testimony from those who shoot these competitively out to 800yds. I don't have a huge amount of experience at those ranges but the consensus is that the fast twist short rifle only begins to hold a bit of an advantage over 600 yds. The long rifle being a match up to that range. In all my testing and shooting of these two, there is not really any practical difference at the ranges I have shot them. As for the general use of the short rifle, it must be remembered to keep things in the right context. This is still the era where the reach of ones bayonet, defence against cavalry and close quarter fighting were all still very much real. A long weapon was relatively important. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders Thanks for your reply. Then all I've read about the P58 Naval gun with its 1:48 twist is not really so significant as some posts on internet forums might make it seem to be. I've read something like during competition shootings shooters with the P58 Naval rifle would lose 10% of their score from start to those shooting the P53 because of its "inherently" higher accuracy.
I remember reading somewhere the 1858 naval musket was more accurate than the 1853. What the article said was the longer rifle had issues with vibrations which were less of an issue with the shorter, slightly thicker barrelled naval musket. At 300 yards, the longer sight radius of the 1853 would be a definite advantage. Is it possible the shorter barreled rifle was more accurate at 50 to 100 yds and the longer barreled rifle more accurate at 300 yds?
The historical indications were that the first pattern short rifles (which had 1-78 twist and light barrel) were sub-standard to the P53. By making the changes WRT rifling and barrel weight, that parity was restored.
Oddly enough reports I’ve read from federal sharpshooters was that the Springfield 1861 was preferred. But if possible, a sharps infantry rifle was ideal.
Another great video. This is an invaluable resource. Must have been very frustrating getting that sighting in! Do you feel that a spotter might be necessary for this kind of shooting?
Not necessary but very valuable... Unfortunately, I am a bit of a one man show... The best I can do, is to video each shot and then review the footage to check for but strike.... Its a long process, for sure.
I really appreciate the amount of effort you're putting into these.
And I, yours, Othias. You guys set the standard for sure.
Fantastic video.
Thanks, Matt. Nice to have you by.
Great video!
You remind us that these old rifles aren't just outdated , antiquated relics of a time past, but rather a snapshot of history. The science and attention to detail you display in your videos show how at one time these ruled the battlefield and have interwoven themselves into our history as Canadians.
Point of interest, my grandfather shot his first whitetail with a snider Enfield 😉. Keep up the great work Rob, and I'll be damned if the federal government shouldn't give you some sort of grant to help your research, 🤔
Thanks Matt. You are very kind with your take on the channel. Grant? This government? Not a snowball's chance in hell, I fear... :-) Though, wouldn't that be cool..... the possibilities...
Only a with a manstache such as that can you command such respect from your subordinates!
I must say not only are you a great shot, but a great camera man! haha. The camera angles, editing etc are superb! Well done Rob!
Thank you for your kind words. Very glad you enjoyed it!
New viewer referred by Forgotten Weapons. I've enjoyed it. Your discipline is to be admired.
Thanks, Mark. Ian was very kind in mentioning the Channel.
Hiya Rob,again another great show.I spoke with you a few days ago regarding problems with my P/HNaval model .Just to let you know that your Gods smiled upon me over here in France this last Sunday.Admittedly it was only @50m but I achieved my best group since owning it 7 shots (!) in a two inch group due to a severe reduction in powder from 65grns to 40 of Swiss.It was a long time in finding out about this rifles peculiarities but a great relief to me because I know how well these rifles are built.Cheers and thanks again Kevin.
HI Kevin. Very happy that you have had success... so much of getting these to shoot well is putting in the time for experimentation....
I used to shoot muzzleloaders for fun and in competition at the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association in Friendship, Indiana and I know how much of a pain they can be. You don't know frustration until you put all your efforts into consistently cleaning, loading, and firing just to miss then, cleaning again, loading again, and firing again just to miss again. Especially when you have a bad day and you can't seem to shoot for shit no matter what, that's when you think "Man this sucks. Why am I doing this anyway? I just want to go home." I know the feeling, that's why I don't shoot much at the NMLRA these days.
So, sincerely, with the utmost respect and empathy, thank you for your efforts, they are greatly appreciated.
Your understanding of the realities of BP shooting are spot on!.... :-) Cheers.
It never ceases to amaze me, the fact that you can actually SEE the bullet dropping onto the target! So often we think of projectiles as flying way too fast to see but these old war horses, despite being slower and more cumbersome, still prove that they can hit like Mike Tyson!
Also, you're patience is beyond compare, sir! I know for a fact that I would have lost my rag by the second day and launched the rifle into the valley and left it there forever more! Hahahaha
Just goes to prove though, that a methodical approach is the ONLY way to succeed! We all salute your tenacity, I'm certain.
Much love.
Seeing the bullet does depend on the lighting being just so and the range being of a decent stretch... and typically you can only see it on video or if you we looking through binoculars... That said, they aren't going that fast. Glad you enjoyed it!
Hats off to you Sir another lovely video
Cheers!
Thank you for another fine video. Truly one of the finest channels in the Western Hemisphere.
This. ^^ This is the correct answer. :)
And I feel that it can be said with some confidence that he's bested the eastern hemisphere as well.
So glad I found this channel, you can really tell how much care and devotion you put into your videos. The editing and production value is worthy of 1 million subscribers.
Very happy you enjoy things here on the Channel. You kind sentiments are very appreciated. What brought you here? A search for "rich, Corinthian leather"?.... :-)
I finally got a Parker hale 2 band, I will be doing a living impression of an Imperial Japanese rifleman Bakufu during the Boshin war of 1868-69. who had been armed with Enfield rifles. In time I will do a British Ghurka as well. Thank you for the videos! It made me committed to Black powder!!
What a great find! Hopefully you'll get to a point where you can shoot it!
Very good movies you make . Much thanks from a Norwegian gun and rifle bug .
You are welcome! Thanks for stopping by!
Always enjoy the quality of your videos! Was fun and informative to watch.
Happy that they appeal. Cheers.
Once more an excellent and inspiring video on black powder rifles, thank you Rob.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent videos. Viewed quite a few of them and found them to be very informative. Cleared a number doubts that I had of certain weapons. Thanks a lot for your efforts.
You are most welcome! Cheers!
Another beautifully done with attention to historical detail video! I'll bet those flies are nasty out there. Thanks for all of your hard work and passion that you place into your videos! Cheers from Florida.
Thanks for your kind words. Very happy that you enjoy the clips. Cheers.
Great video! Thoroughly enjoyed watching it!
Thank you!
awesome, remember a bad days shooting is far better than a good day working. Also I too am a big fan of the .303 case and oily rag for blackening sights!
Hear! Hear!
Very Instructive!!
Thank you for the history and explanation of difference between these two fine English rifle muskets.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I really enjoy your methods, looking forward to more videos!
Thanks Matthew!
Another great video. When ever I see one of you're videos in my subscription list it brightens the day! You certainly showed dedication with that pesky p61 there. I'd have given up after 40 shots haha. However an excuse to head up into thoes hills and shoot would change that I suppose.
It wasn't so much that it wasn't shooting, as much as my zero was off.... Just had to adjust things and it was all OK!... :-)
Great video and enjoy all the hard work you put in to making the comparison ,,,, 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for another great video. I just wish you had more subscribers, you defiantly deserve more.
Thank you for the kind sentiments. Glad you enjoyed the clip.
Really awesome video, extremely informational and well executed. This dude is a BOSS and I'm sure his shoulder was sore after this. I really appreciate the time and effort put into this, like wow. Love it, and he helped me decide to get one too. Thanks comrade in arms
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers.
Excellent video as always.
Thank you!
Great video as usual!
Cheers!
Outstanding video.
Thanks!
Fascinating ... again. Thanks.
You are welcome.
Another great video buddy!
Cheers!
Good job again Rob and thank's for the name check!
Duncan, it was such a good idea, I had to give the credit where it was due!
Dear Sir, many thanks for this splendid video.
You are quite welcome. Cheers.
Enjoy your videos. I had a Springfield 1863 replica, but it was hopelessly inaccurate. I now shoot a model 1863 Sharps 3 band military rifle that is very accurate.
Thank you! Glad you find them interesting.
Jolly good job sir...as always!
Thank you, as always.
Ahh,yet again you entertain me to the max😀Regards from Norway,Alf!
Thanks Alf!
Best channel on TH-cam. Brilliant.
Cheers.
Well done, I really enjoy your videos.
Thank you! Glad you find them watchable!.. :-)
2 band!!
In all seriousness though, your vids are excellent Rob. They're an excellent resource.
Best wishes from a proud P58 owner!
Cheers! Glad you enjoyed it!
Now up there with the most informative gun sites on U.T.thanks.
Cheers!
YOU keep an OAP in uk very happy.just love thing's that go bang.with or with out wheels.thank for all the effort and info you put in to your videos..THANKS
tony Wyatt Do I detect a former Gunner?.. :-)
Love the P61.
Cheers!
I never realized how tall and heavy these rifles are like I'm 5'6 and I recently got to hold a Enfield and the thing felt 7 feet tall and you just carry it along with such ease like it's as light as a feather.
They certainly aren't little bits of plastic, that's for sure.
Hi Rob,
everytime I log in on TH-cam I first look (with great hope) if you uploaded a new video.
It's the months event on TH-cam!
Your videos are unbeatable!
I would be glad if you expand your topic to French or German muzzleloaders some Time.
Especially German, because the German states issued different calibres and weapons to their men and did not only used the Minie-Bullet.
;D
As much as I appreciate other countries weaponry, and I do find them interesting, I find that I am not quite "there" yet. The Dreyse, in particular has a bit of a draw to my ammunition manufacturing side, for sure!
Great channel
Thank you sir.
Back in my ACW reenacting days we used the 3 band P-53 because the longer length was safer for the front rank men and there ears!
The may be so, but that has no historical bearing in British and Empire service whatsoever... A modern consideration for sure. Cheers!
Great video....as always old chap.
Thank you!
I must admit I enjoy watching these videos immensely. I haven't gotten in to black powder yet, mainly staying with my Mk1 No3 and my Mk4 No1 Enfields. But what I enjoy is how you present how these were used in the order of the day. Not just load and shoot but kit and drill as well. Have you or do you have any plans or thoughts on possibly doing a video on the (I believe) P37 equipment? Little new for what you normally do but I would love to learn how it was configured and worn. With the overwhelming amount of information on the web hard to know what is accurate and what isn't.
Hi Mike. Glad you enjoy things here on the channel. I have a set of '37 but I typically don't use it much .... Maybe one day, when I do a No 4 video... Sound OK?
Man..I love watching your video's. Only problem is I get the 'gotta-have-its' for a black powder firearm and, as my wife says, I already have too many modern ones. :)
Great video!
You know, if she doesn't give in, then she'll have to listen to all the wishing, and pining, and overall grumpiness that comes with not having one.... :-)...... Her choice.... haha.. Thanks!
Really nice these videos! I'm watching them all! I like to see the operation of the British and Scottish army weapons, with these reconstructions that make us live the historical context in which they were used!
Thanks! Just to be clear.... there was no "Scottish" (National) Army in the Victorian era..... :-)... Scottish units in the British Army (and about the Empire), yes...
I'm an ignorant in the matter! thank you!
Not a problem! Just thought that you'd like to know, that's all... :-)
Excellent and Truly scientific Outdoor tests...your shoulder must be Blue after this.
I am a BLBPcart. Conversion collector ( Sniders,Albinis Springfield Trap Door, etc.) and I intend using a similar test schedule on my rifles.
Thanks again, Saved to my HD.
Doc AV
Naw, it's OK.
Another great one. and as Funky said. "Of course you have no 9mm cases."
Haha... of course! Cheers.
First off, You make wonderful videos! Secondly, you have nerves of steel with all the bugs flying around lol... and I thought we had it bad here in Louisiana.
Thanks very much! It was a particularly bad day up there.... Good thing the moustache acts as a filter...
brilliant video :)
Cheers.
I absolutely love this channel! This is the closest we'll get to the School of Musketry at Hythe! I have a reproduction of the P53 manufactured by ArmiSport/Chiappa. After googling the barrel stamps, it appears it was manufactured in 1977! I bought this rifle new, in the box, in 1993. I realise the Parker Hales is the best, but could you give your opinion on the quality of these old ArmiSport guns, please? Very best regards, JA
HI there. I have never owned an Armi-Sport P53. I have owned a Euroarms version though... the bore was very large at around .582 and getting bullets to properly fit was a bit of a chore. The lock was serviceable but lacked the solid feeling that an original or, to some extent, a PH lock has. It was a fun way to get my feet wet in the era, for sure.
This is awesome. I'm currently taking my p53 muzzlerloader hunting for mule deer in Saskatchewan.
Nice. That sounds like a great way to do it. Cheers.
Ive carried an 1858 ph for about 38 years and only had 1 deer present itself for a shot. Some rifles just seem to be jinxed
"Men of Harlech all eat garlic..."
Noticing the movement of vegetation in the background, I wonder how much wind drift plagues shooting results in your tests? Anyway, a thoroughly entertaining and informative video, as usual!
The wind was not inconsiderable but quite consistent, so it's effect would have been equal for both rifles and for all, if not most, of the rounds... May have impacted the MPI, of course.
Tally Ho Lads! Great Video my Friend! Greetings from Germany!
Thanks very much!
Another great video! I would have put my money on the p61 due to the greater twist.
I think that this shows that the difference between the two isn't as pronounced as one might expect. Not definitive, of course, but interesting none the less.
Hello Mr. Rob, I really enjoy your shooting, reloading and historical videos. I really want to get started on muzzleloader and I was wondering where you buy those beautiful rifle.
cheers
Fred
Thanks Fred! The Rifles are from all over... googling and knowing what to look for, mostly...
Puzzled by the sudden deterioration of the P-61's group as it seemed to be doing very well in the beginning. Did something come loose that shouldn't have? Plowing through clouds of insects perhaps? I lived 10yrs in the E. Kootenays, I can relate.
Insects, that was it...
yet another great video ,very interesting, and I load my springfield with 63 grains of F2 I'm now thinking to drop down to 60 grains of f2, something to look forward to and practiceone day I will get around to buying a three band p60, Thank'you.
Hi Paul. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks. If there is no reason to change the charge then don't, I say... If you are going to, then make sure to pick a range and test each load to find the best performing one... Then you'll get the most satisfaction from you rifle. By the way, there is no such thing as three band P60... All three band Enfield are P53s... :-)
hello, thank 'you I meant the last of the 3 band parker hale Enfields , they hold there value here in Europe and are not cheap, but to have a rifle the was built with the original tools from the 1850s must be worth waiting for ......................................... my Minie balls after casting are recalibured to .577ins.. and weigh 620 grains......my shots with 63gns of 2f went allways top right of the target that's a 100cm by 100cm target at 100 meters distance. obvioursly holding bottom left corner to get the shots in the middle and I haven't being able to get my group tighter than 8ins. i'll keep watching your videos..that's part of the fun and adds to my intrest in black powder shooting.
Paul Newmarch Wow.. That's one heavy bullet! Must have quite a wallop. As you have experienced, these rifles typically shoot high.. Have you measured the bore? You should be able to get things down to about 6"... In my experience, that's about as good as they get, and that is WAY better than the historical standard. That's with minimum 10 rounds. If your Figure of Merit gets to around 2" then I found that's where things seem to top out. Cheers, and happy shooting!
Damn fine shooting if you ask me and excellent presentation! Especially considering the ungodly amount of bugs!
Thanks Murph. They were rather thick...
britishmuzzleloaders
I'm also really starting to appreciate "figure of merit" in the past I never gave such formulas much "merit" but as your videos have shown it does help simplify the process of comparing groups.
murpheysmuskets Not to harp, but the FoM really is a better way to judge how well a rifle is shooting. It does, however, need a little more effort to get it, what with all the calculations. After that is done though, it's all there for you to see!
Good video once again!
You know, they did use spotting telescopes, back in those days. ;)
Yes, I am aware of that.. :-) Mine isn't good enough to spot the holes at 400, though...
.....and you wouldn't have as much fun shooting at the gong! :D
Rob, Seems like you might be a bit partial to the 2 band rifle since it got 3 chances to the 3 band one chance :). Also how about the wind humidity conditions each day?. Those flys look like they would drive me crazy :)
Tell me about it, eh?... Things were a bit blustery but not ridiculously so. The weather ws good for the "shorts" outings, and cloudy and wet for the "pants" outing.... The bugs were really bad, but I bathed in bug dope and that kept them at bay enough to concentrate for a shot.... :-)
I visited HMS Warrior at the Royal Naval Dockyard last year and I saw those rifles. They have loads of them and they were all made by Parker Hale.
Sadly, all in relic condition....
In regards to your P53, at what range did you zero your rifle? And what sight picture did you use? I would assume I should use a 100 yd zero with a half sight. Under the premise of the three sight pictures referenced, Fine, Half and Full. I have a just installed new sights on my P53 Repro and will be zeroing it in soon. I will be using the Pritchett rounds from PaperCartirdges and a load of 60 grn FFF. is this a good load workup to start with? Sorry for the extensive amount of questions.
Remember that every rifle will have it's own sweet spot, which will probably not correspond to anything historical. My P53 has a slightly modified backsight in order to get a better zero. It has a very small notch and therefore only has one sight picture. It is zeroed at 100 with a 6 o/clock hold. Somewhere between 50 and 70 gr FFg or slightly less of FFFg will be the range of loads for most work up activities..
I would love to see a video that details the difference between the P53, P56, P58, and P61 muskets.
Doesn't this one do that to a degree?
@@britishmuzzleloaders I'm still confused on the metal of the hardware, the barrel twist rates, the sight gradations, etc. I feel like there could be a great dedicated video that shows the lineage and differences of these guns.
Love from india sir❤️
Thanks! And to you!
Dear Sir, nice video.
Thanks!
I actually have the 2 band version, I reenact as a Jäger, and for now I will keep use it (waiting for the money for a Jägerstutzen) thanks for all the infos
You are most welcome!
@12:53 ..."Damn" You are more restrained than I would have been :)
There was a lot more *%$%^&%#$*&%*^%&^%!!!!.......... *(&%^%*&^$^&%&^%!!!! after the camera was turned off... :-)
Good to hear! A penchant for punctuation is what makes us human after all! :)
used to black off iron sights with an oil soaked patch in a used casing 'a la candle' in competition :)
and just seen the end of the video ..... good ideas never fail :)
Glad I included it in at the end then!.... :-)
@@britishmuzzleloaders I know this is a very late comment, sorry for that. You just keep watching these great videos over and over again and always learning something new! Came to mind, the traditional way to blacken sights in Finland was to set piece of birch bark on fire and use that. Makes very heavy matte black soot, great on sights. Try it, you may just like it! 😀
@@JaHa216 Thanks! When I come across some birch bark, I'll try it!
That intro was pretty good XD
Glad you enjoyed it.. cheers.
Wonderful,informative video,but...can you tell me why some of the Jocks in the old photos had wonderful,bushy beards and others just moustaches and sideburns ? Was the first obligatory or was it just the fashion of the day for certain regiments ? Again,lovely vids.
Beards have been a fashion that has come and gone and come and gone. They first became fashionable during and after the Crimea (where they were actually beneficial) and there after, mostly on active service. It seems to have died out by the 1890s, service hardships aside...
These guys: three or two band
Me an intellectual: clamp it in the vice and use duct tape
Sure.
Thanks for this video, Rob. It is one of the first to spark an interest (my wife calls it an obsession) with these Enfield rifle muskets. I thought the artillery carbine, or musketoon, was the P61, and the two band was the P58. Did the artillery carbine come out at the same time as the improved P58? It looks like you shot the same Pritchett cartridges in both rifles. Have you tried a minie or trashcan bullet in the shorter rifle? I'd be very happy if I got your results at 100 yards. I wouldn't even attempt 300 yards at this point. Well done.
The modern and commonly understood designation for these rifles comes from the Parker Hale model line produced in the 1970s. It does not reflect the actual extent of the family or arms. The patterns produced were (here goes)...... The P53 Rifle-Musket, P53 Artillery Carbine, P55 Sappers and Miners Carbine (Lancaster) (later Royal Engineers), P56 Short Rifle, P56 Cavalry Carbine, P58 Short Rifle (Bar on Band), P58 Naval Rifle, P60 Short Rifle, P61 Short Rifle, P61 Artillery Carbine, the P61 Cavalry Carbine.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Thank you so much for that list, Rob. I hope you write a book. Cheers
Very nice! How do these rifles shoot at closer range?
They have a Figure of Merit at 110 yds of just over 2". Which translates to about a 6-8" group with 20 rounds.
Beautifully shot (pun intended) and as always very informative. And I know the the fickle nature of the muzzleloader gods all too well, sometimes they give me hell too. Defiance like you've shown is the only way!
Huzza! Push on through! Cheers.
Another excellent video mate.
The interesting part is that even the worst grouping seems to have put enough shots into a group comparable to your upper body at 300 yards to show a competent rifleman would take a static man sized target down with most shots.
I wouldnt want to be the poor sucker charging a line of Victoran riflemen armed with the Enfield.
Glad you enjoyed it. Definitely a powerful weapon in the right hands.
I was wondering what exactly you were using for ammunition and where to possibly get a mould! I have two p53 3 band enfields and ive tried using two different types of ammunition and both unfortunately are very inaccurate and seeing the results of what your using I would definitely be interested in at least giving the pritchett a go. if you wouldnt mind throwing a bit of info at me id be much obliged sir!
Hi there. There are a number of videos (admittedly quite old) on the Channel dealing with what I use for the Enfield series of rifles. That said, the only commercially available mould is from NOE as of now. They offer a .55 and a .568 version... be careful with the latter as your paper needs to be quite thin in order for it to work. Thee .55 version performed better with a base plug that can be made with NOEs plug mould.
The Army of Northern Virginia tested rifle accuracy and determined that the 2 band Enfield was best so they tried to reserve these for their sharpshooters. Their testing had the advantage of using multiple new rifles.
Do you have a link or reference for that? Cheers.
"Shock Troops of the Confederacy" by Fred Ray. "...the superiority of the Enfield rifle for service at long range, from 600 to 900 yards, was clearly demonstrated..." "Every short Enfield which came into possession of any of our men was taken away and given to these men (the sharpshooters)". A soldier in Mahone's brigade reported that the sharpshooters used "a long English-made cartridge. We never used any ammunition made by the Confederate government." I would swear that I had seen another report about the testing but couldn't find it in my books. Of course, it may have been on a website. You might also be interested that they reported sharpshooters firing at such long range that they set their sights to max range, then aimed at the tops of the trees behind their targets. PS Looked some more and found that the quote about "superiority of the Enfield" seems to have come from "Lee's Sharpshooters" by Major Dunlop. He was describing a demo during training in 1864. Sharpshooter units had been formed in 1862 so there must have been earlier demonstrations. @@britishmuzzleloaders
This is like looking through a window in time to the School of Musketry at Hythe Outstanding channel! Where can I get a mould to make Pritchetts for my enfield?JA!
NOE Moulds makes a version. Mine is a custom mould from Brooks Moulds in Montana USA...
@@britishmuzzleloaders Thank you so much! JA
Where do you get your leather equipment? PS love your channel.
It's from many different places and some of it is made by me (most of the belts). The cartridge pouch and expense pouch are from a company called heritage leather that sadly is no longer trading. High quality stuff though.
cool, thanks very much, and again love your channel.
You know as an American Civil War reenactor I did find a bullet that were fired from the P56 short rifle at Gettysburg and I still own that bullet today
How did you know it was fired from a P56 Short Rifle?
@@britishmuzzleloaders It said on a label when I picked it up at a souvenir shop. It was revealed to have been fired from a Rebel Sgt Maj.
@@ReconstructedYankee1882 Wait,... it said on a label that it had been fired by someone 200-50 yds away from where it was found, during one of the most intense battles of the American Civil War?.... Sorry,... not a chance.
@@britishmuzzleloaders maybe he missed the target but I can see that
Great video! What do you think about the Pedersoli Enfields?
I don't own one but I have heard that they are well made and a step above the offerings of the other Italian makers. Cheers.
Thanks! I have a couple Springfield replicas, but due to watching your videos, I really want to get into the history, and shooting of the Enfield rifled muskets. Keep the videos coming!!
what a great video. where can I buy these great uniform? Thank you
It isn’t a uniform…. But details in the “Kit” series…
Where do you go to shoot? That countryside is absolutely beautiful
In the woods.... :-) very scenic, yes.
britishmuzzleloaders my neck of the woods definitely isn’t as scenic as that
Very nice and interesting...but it seemed like the 61 got more of an opportunity to get settled 8n than the 53...the 53 only got one round, seems like the 53 with the longer barrel would be more accurate...enjoyed it
Yes, you are right.. a more comprehensive test would be required to arrive at a more definitive conclusion... They shoot about the same as the P61 has a faster twist and heavier barrel.
I do have to say you have the most prettiest shooting ranges ever.
Need to break out .my 2 banded Enfield.
Down here below your below your boarder (U.S.) They call almost all two banded Zoave's, which i do not get as there are No Nomenclatured Rifles I can find with that.
Yes, an American euphemism.
I have two questions here. Number one, if you were to go on a deer hunt with either rifle would you take the P53 or the P61 ? Secondly number two, I have been looking into getting a 2 band or 3 Band Enfield rifle. Should I aim for an original or settle with a reproduction ? If reproduction is Parker Hale the best one out there out of them all ? Thank you for the great video. I cant get enough of these videos, because of your content Ive stopped using modern firearms for hunting and target competitions and have started going into Muzzleloading. Your Snider Vids made me drive the State of Virginia to pick up an 1857 Snider Rifle and I watched your vids to reload for them. Next up is going to be a ML Enfield and a Martini. If only I had enough rifle assembly knowledge to build a Baker Rifle kit from the Rifle Shoppe.
Nice! AS far as deer hunting.. Typically shorter is better....
Is it likely that your powder charge was the principle pest in your calculations ? I've understood that at ranges greater than 200 yards, "Lighter" charges tend to be much more affected by weather (wind, direction of wind, humidity, and optical distortions not consciously noticed by the shooter) ?
The loads for each rifle were arrived at after many hundreds of rounds using all kinds of combinations... I am confident that they represent the best for each rifle.... :-) Both rifles have been shot regularly at 300 using the gong and part of my frustration was that the Short Rifle was off it's zero when that load and sight setting typically get the job done.... That's the muzzleloading Gods for you.... Cheers.
if you ever get a chance to chronograh these wonderful rifles
You know, I haven't... I always go for the best performing load and that is typically less than the service version... Chances are that they are shooting a bit slower.. They are still good for 700yds...!
Points added for perseverance :)
Stubbornness, more like.... :-)
Where did you get your slings from? I've been looking all over for slings like those but I'm having a hard time finding any.
These are originals, modified for use with the Enfields.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Nice! The closest reproduction sling I could find is by S. E. Libby & Co.. I finally got it in the mail today after waiting three long months, but its constructed identical to yours except its in black leather.
I have a question. It's known that the P58 with its faster twist and 5 groove barrel is more accurate than the P53 then why did they use the P53 at all after it was known?
After the research I have done, the difference between the two is surprisingly small. This test sort of proves it.... The real difference is between the slow twist short rifles (the P56/58) and the fast twist ones (the P58 Naval, P60/61). This is supported by practice and testimony from those who shoot these competitively out to 800yds. I don't have a huge amount of experience at those ranges but the consensus is that the fast twist short rifle only begins to hold a bit of an advantage over 600 yds. The long rifle being a match up to that range. In all my testing and shooting of these two, there is not really any practical difference at the ranges I have shot them. As for the general use of the short rifle, it must be remembered to keep things in the right context. This is still the era where the reach of ones bayonet, defence against cavalry and close quarter fighting were all still very much real. A long weapon was relatively important. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders Thanks for your reply. Then all I've read about the P58 Naval gun with its 1:48 twist is not really so significant as some posts on internet forums might make it seem to be. I've read something like during competition shootings shooters with the P58 Naval rifle would lose 10% of their score from start to those shooting the P53 because of its "inherently" higher accuracy.
I remember reading somewhere the 1858 naval musket was more accurate than the 1853. What the article said was the longer rifle had issues with vibrations which were less of an issue with the shorter, slightly thicker barrelled
naval musket. At 300 yards, the longer sight radius of the 1853 would be a definite advantage. Is it possible the shorter barreled rifle was more accurate at 50 to 100 yds and the longer barreled rifle more accurate at 300 yds?
The historical indications were that the first pattern short rifles (which had 1-78 twist and light barrel) were sub-standard to the P53. By making the changes WRT rifling and barrel weight, that parity was restored.
The P53 was used in the American Civil War, by both Union & Confederate armies.
Oddly enough reports I’ve read from federal sharpshooters was that the Springfield 1861 was preferred. But if possible, a sharps infantry rifle was ideal.
What brand of cleaning rod do you use? Mine gets patches constantly stuck down the bore of my P58
I have numerous... Nylon,... wood,..... metal...... I use brass jags as found in the cleaning video on the Enfield Muzzleloaders playlist. Cheers!
Another great video. This is an invaluable resource. Must have been very frustrating getting that sighting in! Do you feel that a spotter might be necessary for this kind of shooting?
Not necessary but very valuable... Unfortunately, I am a bit of a one man show... The best I can do, is to video each shot and then review the footage to check for but strike.... Its a long process, for sure.
britishmuzzleloaders Well splendid isolation in those mountains looks magnificent. Most envious!