I think that the best times to use epithets are when 1. The POV character doesn’t know the other character’s name. 2. The epithet is actually important to the character in canon. ((An example I have of this is “The Archivist” for Jon Sims from TMA))
I feel like it definitely depends on the characters' mindsets as well. I wouldn't use 'The Archivist' for Jon in any normal stretch of text, only when he's actively channeling Beholding powers
@@stygian6642 like elias using "The Archivist" is actually perfect, and it's always used to supplement jon's struggle of changing into something else. every time it's used it feels like a slap in the face that makes perfect sense to the world johnny built (can you tell i really like this podcast)
Epithets are useful if you want to show the viewpoint character distancing themselves from a character. But they should definitely not be used thoughtlessly.
Agreed! This video's focus on the underlining causes behind "thoughtless" epithet use meant that there wasn't a clean place to insert "when epithets are actually useful" section
Yeah basically in my fanfic, when in the main character POV there's one character addressed in paragraphs as "the blue bastard", "the horned bastard" a lot because the main character doesn't trust this one character she despises. Other than that I try to be thrifty of epithet use when addressing other characters
thank you for putting my thoughts into words!! I think the most bizarre epithet I saw was "the four-eyed girl" used seriously without a HINT of humor to refer to a character with glasses
I don’t think epithets are really that bad, you just have to use them well. Overusing them or putting them in sentences awkwardly among other improper uses makes them bad but epithets themselves are not all that bad.
I do agree that they have their place, such as sometimes you want to lean into that distance or ridiculousness they create, or use terms of endearment as epithets, or when you don't know a character's name. Since this video is using epithets as a Trojan horse to explain a different issue, there wasn't a neat opportunity to discuss the benefits of well-placed epithets without distracting from the main point, but I might make a follow up video later about how to do them well, just like I have an upcoming trilogy about how to write in-character that also includes a video about why someone might choose to write out-of-character deliberately.
There are reasons to use them, if the POV character doesn't know the names of the people they interact with (the short one grinned, and stuck out his hand, "I'm your new crew member!"), or if the narration/character dehumanises the people they are describing (Evil McBaddy walked away from the cell, and order his henchmen to "take the blond one, kill the rest." Brave McHero grit his teeth as his best friend was carted off), but those situations are not very common and in the vast vast vast majority of cases it's used to talk about a main character, whose name is very definitely not in question.
As with most things, epithets are not good or bad, they're neutral. The trick is to use them with a reason and for a good purpose; "because I don't want to say the character's name again" is a terrible purpose.
It is funny how pretty much this entire video directly contradicts the advice I got in an academic writing class at my uni and I think that is because of the goal of the writing. That class gave all kinds of advice on how to make your writing, as this video put it, more repetitive. However, this was all in service of the goal in making academic writing full of complicated theory and concepts more readable. In academics writing isn’t an artform, it is a practical way to communicate information and thus it is best to make the writing as straightforward and with as little flourishes as possible so as many people can understand it as possible. The subject matter is often complicated enough without the writing style making it worse. It is important to keep the goal of your writing in mind and I think depending on your goal both writing philosophies can be useful. There is no wrong way to write as long as others can read it and enjoy it.
This. I once wrote a fanfic that my mother couldn't read despite wanting to because she didn't know the characters. Epithets are encouraged in writing for many reasons.
@Draconicdisciple There are ways to describe characters without using constant epithets. It isn’t that you should never once describe your character as “green haired” or whatever, it’s that many beginner writers use them ALL THE TIME.
We naturally use epithets when we've just met a group of people and we're trying to figure out who is who, so it makes sense in this context to use epithets. On the other hand, it would be bizarre to refer to people you've known for years as anything other than their name.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard about this happening. Academic writing really does butt heads with artistic writing. I've proofread for people who can't stop using paragraphs that are way too big, just because school left them afraid of making paragraphs that are too small. I have a friend who is an English teacher and he said how sometimes the advice they give is not for the sake of good writing, but rather for the sake of encouraging students to practice in other areas of writing. For instance, stories that try to avoid using "said" at every opportunity can read very awkwardly, but by encouraging students to do it, they will learn a broad vocabulary of words that resemble "said". Thus ,they are encouraged to do it in school.
@@Draconicdisciple this is a really weird example. epithets should definitely NOT be used to label the characters for someone who has no idea what's going on in the story-- unless you're doing something specific, the whole point is that your reader is fully aware of who is who and what's going on. That would be like using an epithet such as "the man who was deeply in tune with the force" in a mid-series star wars novel because some random reader might not know who Luke Skywalker is if they picked up the book, opened it to a random page, and started reading. It's actually extremely jarring to be whipped out of familiarization with the characters and distanced by epithets when the prose has already established a familiarity with them
There's a big difference, however, between "pumpkin soup bubbled in the cauldron" and "he smelled pumpkin soup bubbling in the cauldron." The first is just describing the setting; the second actually describes Link's _sensory experience_ within the setting. It puts you in Link's POV, letting you share his experience of smelling the soup - and creates a more vivid experience for the reader. Don't underestimate the power of sensory details in fiction.
Yes. The replacement should have been something like "the [adjective] scent of pumpkin soup wafted across the room" or "the warm, comforting scent of pumpkin soup filled the air; its source, a bubbling cauldron on the fire." This removes the distancing language of "he smelled" and just tells us what it smells like/what the smell evoked.
@@schoo9256 - I think leaving the POV character out of the sentence is _more_ distancing, not less. You're supposed to be in the head of the POV character, experiencing everything through their perspective. Leaving Link out of the descriptions makes him invisible...just a blank space into which the reader inserts themselves. That's fine if that's the effect you're going for, I guess (and it mirrors the way many video games operate, so fair enough), but to me, that feels a little bland. If your POV character is a blank slate who's a placeholder for the reader, I feel like you should just write a "Y/N" reader insert and be done with it.
The idea I had was "Link entered the house, smelling pumpkin soup bubbling in a cauldron." I do sometimes over use the false present tense verbs (I don't know their technical name haha) but I do think this one fits in the context.
@@goldegreen - Not bad, but in general, you should use normal past tense rather than "ing" word present tense most of the time. Readers tend to perceive "ing" words (gerunds) as something similar to passive verbs, and it "slows down" the narrative and makes it feel hard to get through. I'm not sure why, but it seems to be true. I'd say something more like "Link walked in the door, and smelled pumpkin soup, rich and sweet, from where it bubbled in the cauldron. His stomach gave an eager little jump."
I think most of the time when i use epithets, i tend to use them to describe someone before “the reveal” or when i want a sort of “mysterious” undertone. I feel like my most common epithets are probably “the blonde, the brunette, etc” but THE _GREENETTE_ EXISTS??? (another common one I use is less words used to describe them, and more what they are - the necromancer, the water mage, etc.) anyways let me go back and fix _every single work in progress fanfic i have_ 🤩
Cases where the POV character doesn't know the name of a character (or doesn't immediately recognise) are when epithets are very useful! That's why I specified "named characters" in the video, but ultimately epithets do have their places in prose: they just have to outweigh the cons of using them ☺ Ah, fixing old works is suuuuuuuch a mood! I've been doing that too, but for overwriting rather than epithets/repetitive sentence structure lol
Also good rather than having to do a full character description near the start of a story (especially for characters from a fandom that some readers will know) that lets new to fandom readers get a picture of them or their job before going to simply names
The MOST hilarious thing about anime fans who insist on referring to special-haired people by their special hair color is that WITHIN the story, the character may be considered plain and average-looking. In My Hero Academia, green-haired Deku is described as painfully dull-looking. In Naruto, no one considers pink-haired Sakura a beauty; instead she's self-conscious when standing next to a more regular blonde. Literally no one in Yu-Gi-Oh comments on Yugi's multi-colored hair. But Western fanfiction writers are positively giddy about describing it and having characters comment on it as much as possible.
A post recently going around Tumblr pointed out - correctly - that epithets are *dehumanizing.* It's deliberately reducing a character down to a single attribute - and if you're keeping a close third POV, the POV character should have a reason to essentalize the character to that attribute. This is why it's jarring for characters to consider _themselves_ "the taller man" and similar, but also why epithets are particularly jarring during, er, intimate scenes. Why would character A reduce character B, whom they love, down to "the [X]" in their head during such a heated moment? That's not actually a rhetorical question - if you put your noodle to it you may reveal some pretty interesting characterization answers. If, for example, Senshi from Dungeon Meshi thinks of Marcille as "the elf," that says much more about him and his worldview than it says about her - and that's not necessarily an inaccurate observation about him. It would be more out of character for Laios to use the same epithet on Marcille - why so? Because they've been in the same party for longer and know each other better, but also because Laios doesn't tend to essentialize people to their races in the same way. If POV character A is referring to character B as "the tall man," "the larger man," and the like, then A is kinking on - or more accurately fetishizing - B's size disparity over them. If in an omegaverse setting someone is "the alpha" to the narrator, then they're being essentialized to their alpha-ness, to the prowess and dominance all alphas are presumed to exert. "The bluenette" might, I suppose, be being fetishized for their hair (although to be honest, I've never seen hair epithets done well, least of all the weeby rainbow hair epithets). A well-thought-out epithet lands like a bomb.
this is actually such a great point bc my singular character that has a couple actual canonical epithets for his name has a big thing in his story about being dehumanized and being only seen as what those epithets are lol
It's especially icky with something I've personally seen a lot of in fanfiction, that being racial epithets. Ie: the narrative specifically referring to POC characters as 'the Indian boy' or 'the Latina girl' even within their own narration, and it never being carried over to their White counterparts, who when epithets are used, will be referred to using the more normalised 'Brunet boy' or 'Blue-Eyed girl' etc.
I read a one shot collection where for the chapter with one of my ships, one girl was referred to as “the ravenette” more times then as her name, and it drove me insane. Tbf fair I didn’t really like that authors writing style in general, but they never did that for any character in any chapter before or after?? 😭
Am I the only one who likes epithets when they’re used to emphasize a certain quality of a character? For example, if you want to highlight how young a character is, then referring to him as “the teenager” instead of “he” or “[teen boy’s name]” occasionally can be really useful. Especially if the POV character is an adult, who it makes sense would feel responsible for the younger character.
I'm no professional but I do find myself reacting differently to it depending on context. Sometimes it feels fine and like a natural way to tell apart two characters. But if it's repeated a couple of times it starts to get grating. I'm not sure why, it just instinctively feels wrong
I like using a variety of epithets for characters so even if the chapter only has two or three people, if they're all guys (for instance) using "he" constantly doesn't narrow down anything. But having a few "titles" keeps it from getting stale while also reminding of different traits or jobs that might be important for the audience to remember. "The blond" and "the brunette" may distinguish characters but depending on the scene it may be better to have "the old soldier" "the young delivery girl" or something to convey why they may act the way they do because of their background. One of my favorite fics though, I used the basic age epithets to sneak in a secret before it was revealed. In this case we had "the boy" and "the teen" for most of the story but then the teen was cursed and where he's growing physically older. The kids don't think much about it because of bigger problems, but it does cause a bit of panic once they finally realize one is changing while the other hasn't. However, even before the reveal, I had already started using "the young man" and "the former Champion" for the teen to signify a shift had happened.
Epithets can be great when used in this way. I like to sprinkle a few in to i'm not constantly repeating the character's name, often to describe things like the character's occupation, hobbies or characteristics. For example: 'She smiled softly before inhaling the smoke and blowing it in the assassin's face.' This is a line in one of my wips and creates contrast between the first character, who is playful in nature, and an assassin, who is considered to typically be more serious or demure in nature. Some other ones I like that I've used in this same fic are 'the bashful bard', 'the young scion', 'her parasitic companion'. All of these tell a story and add to the characterisation of each person being referred to. I even took an epithet from canon that is used frequently and that works well, 'The Master', referring to one of the main character's former enslavers. The reason The Master works so well is because that is all this character knows her enslaver as. She doesn't know his name, or much about him really, just that he used to own her. Reducing him to just being her enslaver is actually quite powerful narratively and something I quite like about the canon narrative, the tables are turned from the victim being dehumanised to her overpowering her abuser.
Epithets have to be extremely relevant to what is currently happening or they're distracting. To me, virtually any physical descriptor as an epithet is going read as bad writing (basically making it clear that someone is unable to write in a way that keeps the characters straight without resorting to epithets). However, if the character is doing something, using their career or title as an epithet would be highly relevant and make sense (i.e. "the experienced pilot reacted to the cockpit alarm with practiced efficiency"). If the character has had something happen to them that affects how they act going forward, that would be highly relevant and make sense (i.e. "the wounded woman struggled to regain her footing as she turned to face her attacker."). The only time a physical descriptor doesn't immediately jump out at me as distracting is when a physical characteristic is relevant to what's happening. (i.e "The burly thief easily pinned the duke to the wall while his partner in crime rifled through his pockets.") Furthermore, the POV character, the one we're following along with as readers, should NEVER be referred to by an epithet. That immediately throws you out of the story and changes the POV of the entire work. Unless that is the intended stylistic effect, it will come across as bad writing to the reader.
In the MLP fanfic site 'FiMfiction' they even gave a name to this phenomenon: Lavender Unicorn Syndrome :p I usually avoid epithets in writing, but I still sometimes found my sentences sounded stilted and repetitive, so this advice is quite useful ^c^
Fimfic mention! Yes I’ve read the writing advice of the site, and sometimes in the comments I see the mention of this syndrome. I find it hilarious Twi has a whole syndrome name after her.
Oh the tip on changing up the subject-verb-object order is a gamechanger, I've always seen people give examples of that but I've never been able to recognize what exactly they do thank you!
Rewriting the first paragraph in my style as an exercise, I invite you to do the same! ^^ When Link entered the house, the warm scent of Uncle Rusl’s good’ol pumpkin soup filled the room. The old man greeted him over the cauldron’s loud bubbles and ladled a bowl to him. They both sat at the dinner table after Rusl served himself, two cold empty seats alongside them.
Okay let me try: The house smelt like pumkin soup when Link entered, he could hear it bubbling in the caulron. A bowl was ladled to him with a greeting and a sombre smile from Uncle Rusl. The old man severed himself before they both sat down at the diningtable.
OOH this is cool. here’s mine, i interpreted and added a lot of stuff besides just restructuring it lol: Link crossed the threshold to the house, and as soon as he adjusted to his new surroundings, he was met with the scent of pumpkin soup coming from his uncle Rusl’s cauldron from across the room. The man greeted him, grinning somberly, and offered him a bowl, before serving himself. Link sat at the table, staring down into the bowl. It was orange and bubbling and visibly thick, garnished with a small clove of Hylian greenherb. Warm air rose into his face as the soup steamed-in fact, the cooking had made the entire room warm, even comfortable. But an undeniable sadness hung over the two-it was difficult to put out of mind the two empty seats they dined with, cold and lifeless. Once they began to eat, however, the soup filled their bodies and spirits with warmth, and the absence became that much easier to bear.
When Link opened the door he was greeted by the smell of warm pumpkin soup, and the somber smile of Uncle Rus, who stood over the bubbling cauldron. He ladled soup into a bowl and offered it to Link, then poured some for himself when Link accepted. The pair sat in silence with only each other, and two cold empty seats for company. I tried lol
Lemme try (but i havent been involved in Zelda fandom for years) Led in by the overpowering scent of pumpkin, Link entered the house to see the source--- soup of the same flavor bubbling up in a cauldron, on the brink of overflowing, a few orange-brown drops already having slipped over the edges. As if by routine, he crossed the room with his bowl, letting Uncle Rusl fill it up with a plain yet familiar ladle. With nothing more to say, they sat immediately after Rusl served himself, the two men in chairs awkwardly perpendicular, the matching chairs empty and cold from disuse. hehe i mightve corrupted it a bit with my own interpretations of the paragraph... havent written in a while but i think i still got it :)
it’s so cool seeing everyone’s writing style!! here’s mine: As Link entered the house, the smell of pumpkin soup emanating from the cauldron greeted him. Uncle Rust offered him a bow with a sombre smile, and he briskly crossed the room to collect it. He sat down at the table, Uncle Rust joining him with a bowl of his own. The soup was warm on his tongue, but two seats remained cold and empty.
Omgggg the examples of epithets you mentioned blasted me back in time to when I was first getting into reading fic and got blindsided by “the green-haired man”….😭😂 I have always been an avid avoider of epithets, but that certainly doesn’t mean my prose is free from this issue! Thanks so much for this great advice-the example you edited was such a glow up! I’ll look out for repetitive sentence structure in my editing now I know what to look for!😁
The MOST hilarious thing about anime fans who insist on referring to special-haired people by their special hair color is that WITHIN the story, the character may be considered plain and average-looking. In My Hero Academia, green-haired Deku is described as painfully dull-looking. In Naruto, no one considers pink-haired Sakura a beauty; instead she's self-conscious when standing next to a more regular blonde. Literally no one in Yu-Gi-Oh comments on Yugi's multi-colored hair. But Western fanfiction writers are positively giddy about describing it and having characters comment on it as much as possible.
@@Cityweaver HAHA literally it was a MHA fic i was reading that had “green-haired man” LMAO! And I absolutely agree. It really takes me out of the story when unnaturally-coloured hair is mentioned unless it’s canonically unusual or dyed or something. I see the fun hair colours in anime as more of a stylistic choice of the medium that doesn’t really translate to written word.
@@trashcan-train I have never seen a more body conscious fandom than MHA. It's like a wormhole of secondary school puberty angst. 🤣 In a story where people are half-frog, have four arms, or can manifest cameras from their hands, people write fanfics about Deku's feelings about having curly hair, freckles, or being short. 🤣
@@Cityweaver HAHAHA awww bless. To be honest, the feelings of puberty and body consciousness to dysmorphia would be super interesting to explore in a fic for characters OTHER than Deku who are more non-human in appearance.👀
My introduction to fanfiction was Naruto fanfiction, so I grew up reading the epithets "blond-haired fox" and "raven-haired boy." To me, I was never confused as to who they were referring to, but they were used in excess to the point where it became kind of off-putting to read. Also, they were regularly used in romantic contexts, so they became really awkward to read. This video was insightful and funny, because I never realized how much hell people were raising about them.
"Blond-haired fox" is a new one! And using epithets (especially physical descriptors) in romantic contexts -a situation where your goal is to build intimacy and chemistry- is suuuuuper counter-productive! The only epithets that work in romantic contexts are terms of endearment: his beloved, her lover, their darling, etc. I have the characters in my fic think of each other as "his shadow" and "her wolf" when they're feeling particularly intimate, because it makes sense in the context of the story.
Except it's not just the eye and hair colour epithets that are an issue. It's any that serve no purpose other than to hide repetition. Bad epithets for named characters can also be things like "the older sibling", "the taller man", "the [insert fictional race here]", etc. How many of us look at someone we know and think "ah yes, the taller man!" in our heads? How many of us think of ourselves as "the younger one"? It makes the POV we're in less immersive, and in the case of epithets that rely on comparing age or height, fans can't be relied on to remember who is taller or who is older, so again, it makes things not only distant, but confusing. However, epithets are useful for characters that the POV character doesn't know the name of, or when you want to reinforce a particular relationship during key moments for a little extra punch, such as "For the first time in months, he kissed his beloved" or "her childhood friend, her rock, her pillar was dead, and there was no one left to stop her from unraveling."
@@CoraMaria I don't disagree that a lot of inexperienced writers often use epithets as a crutch to hide repetitive writing, and that there are others ways to avoid repetitive writing without using epithets. But I personally think there are some situations where using epithets is alright, such as when you want to describe an important description/trait of the character without delving too deep into their appearance. Or maybe you want to briefly mention their occupation, such as "the prosecutor" or "the chemistry teacher". Basically, if you want to use epithets, you must have a purpose for it. Maybe I'm an outlier, but I personally don't really mind epithets as long as the situation calls for it and the writer doesn't overdo it.
@@CoraMaria Well, in stories where seniority means hierarchy it is sometimes important to reminds the reader of who is the older one in a given situation. Also if one wishes to remind the reader of the skintone of a character...
@@LadyBelleslettres I do agree that epithets should have a purpose in order to outweigh the potential cons. I just found the idea of "as long as they don't mention eye or hair colour" to not be broad enough 🙂
@@CoraMaria I strongly agree with your point that epithets should be used in meaningful situations and reveal something relevant about the relationship, the character being referred to, or the character doing the referring. For instance, in my own fanfic, one of my characters has sort of questionable morals and tends to get frustrated easily with other characters. So, sometimes I'll use specific epithets when in her POV that are meant to dehumanize the other characters and thus show her frustration. She often refers to certain other characters of mine in charming ways such as "that clueless prince" or "that stupid girl." I'm careful not to do things like this too often, of course, but I do believe it serves a narrative purpose and gets a point across! I also agree with @LadyBelleslettres that occupations such as "the chemistry teacher," or in another one of my own fics, "the doctor," can be used on occasion, especially in times when their occupation is relevant, such as when said doctor is performing a checkup on the POV character. Alternatively, if you don't know someone's name, you often will refer to them by their occupation or by a different defining trait of theirs. If I don't know my doctor's name, I refer to them in my head as "the doctor" until I know their name.
My sibling and I both read a lot of fanfic, and so they created a shared google doc where we both write down the worst epithets we’ve seen! It’s quite long by now and has 5 separate fandoms on it 😂 We realise fanfic writers are often young/new to writing or don’t edit their work before posting, and we’d never publicly mock someone’s writing, but it’s just a funny thing for us to look back at! This video was a really good explanation of why authors use epithets though, and I’ll definitely keep this in mind next time I’m writing!
I love how you are so positive and encouraging, pointing out the surface problem, the underlying issue, and giving helpful advice and examples to fix it without harping on people for being terrible writers! Now I know what to watch out for to avoid this issue :)
My English teacher would always tell us not to start sentences with names and pronouns but never really explained why or how to avoid it. Your video structured the issue perfectly and made it easy to understand. When I started writing FanFiction I found epithets ans thought that was the solution to not finding ways to restructure my sentences. I’ve grown out of the usage as I’ve gotten older but you definitely brought up some good points to keep in mind when writing. Thank you for sharing this video it has been quite eye opening.
I think epithets are fine in small doses. But gosh if I have to read “the pinkette” one more time I’m throwing my phone. 😭 I probably overuse age related ones the most. “The teen”, “The elderly woman” etc.
This is really helpful, thank you! I couldn't put my finger on why epithets in fics irked me. Knowing how to vary the sentences will really help my writing, I often fall into the repetitive sentence and filter word trap. I really appreciate that your videos are captioned, it helps my auditory processing!
One of the most egregious cases of trying to avoid repetitiveness I've come across wasn't actually epithets, it was names. There were two Japanese characters in the scene, and the writer constantly alternated calling them by their family names and their given names, which created a very... awkward effect, to put it mildly.
I do think there is a good reason to use an epithet. It’s to highlight a relevant trait of the character. Like: --- The rich boy looked at him, confused. “Why don’t you just ask your parents for more money?” --- “Trust me, you won’t find wool this fine anywhere else in the land,” the shrewd merchant said enticingly. --- Both characteristics are relevant to the discussion at hand. The guy is confused *because* he’s rich. Also, if the character is a grown man, it’ll highlight his immaturity. The merchant is probably trying to pull wool over customer’s eyes with his shrewdness. Etc.
3:24 I would change it to something along the lines of “The smell of pumpkin soup wafted from the bubbling cauldron” to appeal to all of the readers senses. It helps with immersion, and most, if not all, good fics and books appeal to all 5 senses.
Another fantastic video! I absolutely agree that epithets are used most often to disguise poor sentence construction and repetitiveness in their writing. I do have to disagree about the 'She soared to the clouds' vs 'To the clouds she soared' example - the latter feels like a quite dated phrasing, to me, which would stick out in my mind when reading. I think the important thing to remember is that the most common sentence structure in English is SVO (subject verb object), and so if most of your writing is not that people will think something's up - but animate objects can be the subject as much as any character, case in point 'the nostalgic aroma of pumpkin soup welcomed him' where the smell of pumpkin soup is personified as welcoming Link, who is the object. Your characters do not always need to be the subject in a sentence, and a sentence does not always need to start with its subject, especially if you have events occuring concurrently (ie 'with a somber smile, he...'). I know I certainly have a tendency to over-use the present participle for this purpose 😅
also forgot to say that there are places in a story where the use of epithets are acceptable to me. The first, of course, is prior to knowing a person's name such that their epithets and pronouns are the only ways to reference them. The second instance is to take advantage of the fact that an epithet describes a person by one of their features (like 'taller man' or 'brunette' or even 'his friend' or 'the drunkard' etc etc) and so, if you wanted in a moment to highlight that feature for comedic, ironic, dramatic purposes etc, it becomes reasonable to want to describe them as such. For example, you might describe somebody by an epithet because that epithet combined with the action they're performing makes them a hypocrite, like if a daredevil character was getting on another's case for being reckless, for ironic comedy purposes. Or for another example, if you have a character saving or failing to save their friend, using that epithet could make the event more emotionally powerful by reminding the reader of that key piece of information about them that colours the interaction. The risk, of course, is that when you use the epithet you could create distance from your reader and thereby weaken an emotional resolution or a comedic moment instead of strengthen it, so it's up to a writer and if they think they can pull it off - for me, since there are other ways to do these effects that are less risky, I don't tend to go for it myself. YMMV tho Again, fantastic video!
You make a lot of good points, but with regards to the specific "To the clouds, she soared" example, I'm a proponent that powerful prose will end its sentences on the words it wants to emphasise the most. If it's the soaring part you want to emphasise, then that would be the word to end on.
@@AshBreeX Yeah this video didn't have much of an opportunity to go into the good uses for epithets, mostly because I was using epithets as a Trojan Horse to explain a different issue, but I do agree that they have their place sometimes (plus leaving the 'Here's when epithets are good to use' part out at least serves as engagement bait lol😜)
@@CoraMaria i get ending on the word you want to emphasize, but "to the clouds she soared" definitely sounds kinda weird. i'm much less bothered by "into the clouds she soared," but that sentence structure still feels sort of...idiomatic?...to me, like "there she goes." "and off she went." "away she flew." "into the clouds she soared." there's a specific connotation there. i think it has to do with the way verbs that involve going to a place work-i have no issue with "in the clouds, she soared," because the action here is soaring and "in the clouds" is just a description of where it happens, whereas in your example, the full action is soaring to the clouds. also, for the record, the fundamental SVO structure in english almost never changes (you shouldn't really say stuff like "the apple, timmy ate"). what you can move is stuff like adverbial phrases and prepositional phrases (you could say either "timmy ate the apple slowly and carefully," "timmy slowly and carefully ate the apple," or even "slowly and carefully, timmy ate the apple"). sorry to go all "well actually" on you though. good video
Whattt this video's everything I've ever needed regarding this particular topic: it's to the point and tackles the root of the problem. I'd never realized the cause was repetitive writing! I have scrapped epithets a long time ago, but something still felt off and now I know why. Honestly, your channel is everything the fanfic writing community needed, I just wish I'd found it sooner. It's honest, good-natured and thoughtful advice. Thanks for the great video!
i actually recently discovered this exact issue in my writing and have been fixing it accordingly ever since! i never connected it to the use of epithets though, as i tend to avoid them anyway, so this video was really insightful even after already having realized this :) perhaps the oddest epithets i've seen are "the ravenette" (also he was a man so "ette" doesn't really make sense?) and "the sword-wielding male" like if you must use an epithet just say swordsman?? swordsman is a far more appealing word anyway good vid!!
I didn't even realize this problem, probably because I naturally avoid epithets in my writing, only really using them sparingly, if at all. Though I will keep an eye out for repetitive writing now! I struggle with that a bit, but I think I know how to solve the issue now.
I am an old fic veteran of many a fandom war so I was like, "pfft, I don't need this." But I clicked for your adorable vibe and am so pleased with your insightful advice. Subbed!
Ok but this video did a better job at explaining how to add sentence structure variety than most educational videos and I kind of want to use this with my students next year...
The sentence structure thing is gonna be so helpful for me. I'm someone who likes writing very dialogue-heavy stuff, and the constant paragraph breaks have made writing out the descriptors (filling in the blanks I call it) my least favorite part of writing due to that repetition. I've been slogging through a single chapter for months now because i don't like it that much. This is gonna help a lot!
I thought I was overusing them but I looked back and it was only really a problem in my older fics. All my WIPs don’t seem to have this problem. Maybe I subconsciously noticed and started trying to correct it myself
Improvement is often intuitive. I know this because sometimes people will ask me to do a video on a particular topic (like dialogue) and I'm just like "I know I do it well but I don't know how I do it well?"
My dumbass self thought you were referring to show/book Epithet Erased, and i was so genuinely confused because that's whay they call the superpowers in that world lol-
Guess I'll join in the rewrite-the-Zelda-paragraph challenge: The moment Link entered the house, the smell of pumpkin soup seemed to bore into his chest. He listened to the cauldron bubbling softly over the heat of the fire as he closed the door behind him, shutting out the draughts of nighttime air. Uncle Rusl simply greeted him with a somber smile and ladled him a bowl, and Link crossed the room to take it. Once Rusl had served himself as well, they sat down at the dining table together, two more seats looming cold and empty across from them.
It’s me I’m the epithet over user lets goooo 🔥🔥🔥 but omg bluenette and similar ones are always my last straw personally lmao 😭 but then I’m a hypocrite and not much better with my “the blue haired girl-😋” anyways this was really helpful and I like your energy!! subscribing 👍
This definitely brought back memories of my own fanfics. I haven't written a fanfic in a while, but writing original works has helped fix the epithet problem for me. Here's my version of the example: The calm bubbling and comforting smell of pumpkin soup greets Link as he enters the house. With a sombre smile, Uncle Rusl holds out a bowl which Link takes with careful hands. After Rusl serves himself, they sit at the table together with only two cold, empty seats and the occasional crackle of the fire for company.
Love this! I had a quit reading a really good story due to not being able to take one more ridiculous epithet. This will help my own writing. Thank you.
I think bluenette and pinkette, both used in the same fic, might be one of the more egregious ones- they’re definitely the most memorable, considering it was a fossil fighters fic I read upwards of ten years ago now. I tend to avoid epithets but I know I’ve slipped into them before- especially the taller/shorter one when writing two characters with the same pronouns- but even though I try to avoid them I feel like I do tend to fall into the issues of repetitive sentence structure you talked about even still, so this is pretty helpful!
I'm glad you learned something valuable from this vid! And as someone who has written a chapter where all three characters used they/them, I totally get the pronoun issue. I wouldn't be surprised if I have to pick out a few epithets myself when it's time to edit it 😂
This is great advice! As someone who takes creative writing classes, and as someone who used to be notorious for using epithets in an attempt to avoid repetition, my tutor offered the same advice! This video is so helpful for authors in general because it also offers advice on how to avoid it, and how to improve sentence structure/variety in general! :D
I used to be sooooooooo bad about this and I could TELL it was making my prose weird but I couldn't figure out why. This is a great video! Thank you for makin it.
I edit irl and epithets are something I crush immediately. There was one short story I'll never forget because its author repeatedly referred to her MC as "the blonde". I think it's a consequence of having "show, don't tell" drilled in. People don't want to just say a physical detail because they're being told it's incorrect. You really don't need to describe a character more than twice, less so in fanfic because we already know what the characters look like. It's also more common in fics that are short on dialogue. People want to pad their writing, and purple prose is a great way to do it. They (usually) grow out of it, if given direction.
THANK YOU. I often find myself using these and going "Why. Why am I still doing this." and you've outlined REASONS and offered actual fixes! Thank you for going deeper on it! That said, does anyone else ever have the secondary, barely related problem where you're kind of a shameful person by default (as in you shame yourself a lot) and you try writing something intimate (either in the spicy way or just the emotional way) and you realize, as you are typing out the names that specifically belong to only one specific fandom and only ever have, that you are writing ROMANCE FIC of a CHARACTER who has long been known in the public eye as NOT A ROMANCE HERO and so then you feel compelled to write stuff like "He tenderly kissed the other" so that you don't have to confront the fact that the two people kissing are, like, Disney Villains or Decepticons or Jedi who have never done that in canon, and you know YOU might love envisioning these fantasies with them but you're not sure how others will take it so you try to dull the reality?
CORA MARIA YOU’VE ONCE AGAIN SAVED MY WRITING I LOVE YOU I’ll edit my in-the-works works better now!! I’ve only learned about the distancing habits from an amazing writer and friend and Quotev recently when she read my most recent book/chapter! I never knew, I’m so grateful and this is already giving me tons of ideas!! I liked the first paragraph with the epithets tbh, but yeah if not used well enough they do suck. You did great, though! I’ll limit them to when they are actually giving useful information.
I don't like it with the epithets because it pulls us out of Link's head and makes us view him as an outsider, while also making his relationship with Rusl feel more distant. None of those epithets make sense to what Link would be thinking about himself or Rusl.
This is a good video! But also so funny that it was recommended to me because I'm currently planning out a Norse Mythology inspired fic and for stylistic reasons I have deliberately been trying to give each character as many epithets as possible while still making it clear which character I'm talking about in the moment. :) It's very self- indulent but I love reading works where it is done well
This randomly appeared in my recomended and i think im going to binge all your content now!! I write- mostly my ocs but i have a fanfics set in franchises I like (with my ocs, of course) and i dont post it anywhere (nor do my friends read it when i show it to them... sigh). Though ive written for awhile i very much think i'm still a beginner. the few tips shared here about restructuring sentences made me really think. When i finally get around to editing my (unfinished) fic i'll def have to do that!!! and unrelated but i love your aesthetic. The wall behind you is so fun and colorful and the fact your outfit matches? awesome. v colorful, fun and cozy vibe.
Thanks for the pointers! Seeing this video was such a relief because I didn't even know what those were called or that people found them to be a problem. I'm thankful that I now know and have the tools to avoid doing this with my future writing ^^
Mood! I've been editing my old chapters too, though for reasons other than epithets. I'm just an overwriter who has too much rambling monologue 😂 I very much appreciate the second kudos~!
I feel like it's harder when you have to people of the same gender interacting. For example, "he touched him" doesn't work very well as it causes confusion over who's touching who, or if he's touching himself, stuff like that.
Holy frigg I'm super guilty of this! I'm writing my first fanfiction though, so I'm a bit excused... by the way I was already trying not to overused them, by writing sentences structured in a way that you know who is talking/acting. But I still have a long way too go, this video was indeed enlighting! By the way here's the epithet I use way too often (I challenge you to guess the fantom I'm writing for): - the King - the fallen angel - the princess - the former exorcist
Honestly my mind is only going to 'Blue Exorcist' which I haven't even watched 😅 I'm glad you're already doing what you can to avoid epithet overuse! It takes time, practice, and plenty of editing to create dynamic prose 💖
Thank you so much for this video. I have always struggled with my writing being repetitive and filled with fillers and epithets so you’ve absolutely helped me with this video and got an immediate subscribe from me.
I’ve recently became a fanfic writer on AO3 because TADC has me by its hooks right now, and one of the most common obstacles I’ve come across in my writing is knowing/ choosing when to use epithets sparingly or when not to use them at all so this video has given some very good advice that I can implement for future works. Thank You I also really like that you pointed out how using epithets unnecessarily can come across as dehumanizing for the characters that you are writing for, but something that I’ve found to be rather compelling about writing/reading stories for TADC is that using epithets (when not done excessively) kinda highlights how messed up it is that these characters, despite being human, are sometimes not described/ referred to as such because of how inhuman they look. For instance, when I use epithets like “the jester”, “the doll”, or “the rabbit” when referring to one the characters in the sentence, I usually try to use it when something is happening that is relevant to that description. Otherwise, yes, I try my best not to make my writing feel too over bloated with unnecessary epithets. I’m actually gonna try and practice with a new story.
@@St0rmiiDayz450 Easiest would be "the ringmaster", but let's see... If you want a long one for some specific scene: "the all-seeing dentures". Maybe "gnawing AI" could be somewhere, like if he's being annoying to someone? "Chomp on googly-eyes"...?
@@St0rmiiDayz450 Yeah, which is why I don’t use physical descriptors as epithets for him because then it would get wordy. Instead I like referring to him as “the A.I.” or the “the ringmaster”.
I have to ask. If we stop using words like Bluenette and Silverette, where is the fun? You are right, it breaks up the writing for the author who feels like they are seeing the characters name too much or starting every sentence with a name but this is about fun overall and doesn’t need a witchhunt.
Thank you. I was trying to hide the name of my main character for one chapter, but the constant repetitive use of epithets were driving me crazy--and I didn't even know that was what they were called. Unwittingly, I had also used those exact writing tips to maneuver around my epithets. Now I worry since a good chunk of my book will initially involve epithets until they are not needed by the plot. I'll keep this repetitiveness in mind.
this video is really well put and concise ! i struggle to follow a lot of writing advice videos because of their length and wording. this is one of the few i've understood properly on a first viewing !! great video !!!
I'm not even two minutes in yet, but the intro reminded me of a writer I left a review for on HPFF. I asked why they couldn't just use the character's names because all of the epithets were confusing and they told me that not using them was boring and they wished JKR had used more of them in her work, the writing wasn't descriptive enough. This was also someone who would describe in painstaking detail every article of clothing a person wore and the food they ate and the rooms they were in, but yeah. I knew that this sort of overly descriptive writing just pulled me from the story because I want to imagine their hair color or eye color or height every time it's mentioned, and I don't need to imagine hair color in the middle of an argument, unless its about how the POV character wants to put their hands in it or destroy it.
At first I was confused because I’ve never seen comments like that about epithets. But your video explained it really well, and now I know how to get better at writing. Thank you. And I love your outfit and your background ! (I hope my english is not too bad-)
Kouhei Kadono uses epithets in his light novel, "Boogiepop and Others: Boogiepop Doesn't Laugh." He uses the epithet, "the Fire Witch" to describe one of his characters, Nagi Kirima, to describe her fearsome reputation. Guess how many times he uses this in 236 pages, he uses it 10 times in the entire book, 10.
Oh my God, I'm so glad your channel came up in my recommendations! For the longest time, I've been looking for a writing advice channel that's not JUST catered to beginners. Epithets haven't been a problem for me personally, but repetition in my writing definitely has been. Your suggestions, along with your examples, are perfectly straightforward. I feel like I can still take away some stella advice from this video even though epithets aren't my problem. I can't wait to check out some of your other videos!
Oh, so I got this in my recommended and I clicked it without knowing what to expect since I've never seen your channel before. And it was so nice! So useful and well explained! I love it For starters, I didn't expect that background music, I've never seen someone choose something like... a music box, I think? As background music. And it fits so well, not sure why, but I really like that choice. Oh and the color palette is very nice too! Regarding the writing stuff, I love the advice given here. It has explanations, examples and is given in a respectful manner. I think the one that will help me the most will be the last one, 'switch the order'. Writing in my mother tongue is much easier for me, and switching the order around comes fairly naturally. It's somewhat flexible, imo. As long as you are careful, verbs, subject, object and adverbs can be moved around more or less freely. But when I try writing in English, everything I know about writing seems to fly out the window... so I hadn't even noticed I could do that. While there is such a thing as 'too much', there's more freedom than I previously thought. I think I'll give it a try tomorrow. I haven't written a fic in so long. Years, in fact. I'm happy I get to do it again. I think I'll check your other videos... And epithets! I have seen _the pinkette_ in English and _the greenette_ translated to my first language!! That was... definitely SOMETHING hahaha
Some years ago I used epithets all the time, and I remember saying I used them because I didn't want my writing to be too repetitive. I don't use them nearly as much as I do now, but this is still good advice to keep in mind. Repetitiveness in my writing is always a huge concern of mine.
Oh, my gosh. A fanfic writer running a TH-cam channel who regularly uses The Legend of Zelda to make examples. I love your style so much! Count me in for whatever you do next
this was so helpful! epithets are awful and there are times when i'm writing that i think "ugh, an epithet here would be so useful if i didn't absolutely hate them". i didn't realise it could be an "easily" fix like this! thank you for the tips, i will put them into practice :)
Of course! It goes to show why the conversation should never end with "Epithets are annoying so don't use them!" You need to show them how to leave them behind.
Yea, I tend to stick to epithets for characters that I have yet to reveal the name of, and even then, I tend to write from the point of view of characters that would quickly come up with a nickname for someone in their head if they don't know their actual name.
Bro, I didn't even know what an epithet was before I came here, I just saw the coolest looking person on the planet in the thumbnail and had to click 😭😭
This is absolutely fantastic advice, but I do have an issue with the 4:35 example in that all 3 sentences are the same structure again. *"With/upon something, subject does this as/with something else happening".* I feel this example would be stringer if the Uncle Rusl sentence and only that sentence started with him as the subject to have variety in sentence length. *"When Link entered the house, the nostalgic aroma of soup welcomed him from the cauldron. Uncle Russl welcomed Link as well, handing him a freshly-ladled bowl. Once Russl served himself, they sat at the dining table together, with two more cold, empty seats for company."* The variety of sentence length and structure in the middle may make this scene flow better
It’s a long tradition. The oldest attributes are associated with Gods of Death, and Cthonia. Gods you normally don’t want to notice you- which, is why these terms of non endearment exist in the first place. Typically, they’re in reference to an event, character trait, or physical attribute. Hades, Greek God of the Dead, was known as ‘The Stoic’. Persephone- today, perceived as a spring princess, was at the time referred to as ‘The Dreaded’. Epithets are a very valuable tool, harkening back countless millenia. However, to use them lightly is an abuse of the tradition- they should not be bandied about, passed off so carelessly as affectionate nicknames. They should be treated with more weight, and will ideally reveal something about both the bearer of the title, and the one speaking it.
This gets a lot harder to do in quick-shot, fast-paced dialogues that need tags (which is a difficulty of mine), but this is great advice. I've been doing that without noticing, and I thought that because of that, my writing was annoying, difficult and too poetic (I started writing poetry and then moved to prose when I was a kid), but it's good to know the effort is appreciated (at least by some readers). We'll never be everybody's cup of tea anyway /shrug. I think playing with the rules for a certain effect is also nice, but then again that's the poet in me speaking. Let us all keep in mind that it's good, it's awesome, to get better at writing, but never forget to have fun!
This is actually very helpful!! I tend to be an epiphet user, mostly because i write about my own characters, and a lot of them tend to be similar to each other [i.e. the ones im currently writing are a group of male clowns and/or toys], perhaps this advice doesn't particularly apply to original work, but nonetheless, your advice is very helpful and I'll try to put it in my current and future works!
Lets not forget that repetition, especially repetitive sentence structure, can still be effective tools when used properly. I personally enjoy when short, simple, repetitive sentences are used when the narrative reaches some sort of climax or moment of tension. It’s a great way to make the reader feel racing thoughts, just like the characters in the story may be experiencing.
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I think that the best times to use epithets are when
1. The POV character doesn’t know the other character’s name.
2. The epithet is actually important to the character in canon. ((An example I have of this is “The Archivist” for Jon Sims from TMA))
TMA MENTION LET'S GO
@@jazzolinejazzHELL YEAH
I feel like it definitely depends on the characters' mindsets as well. I wouldn't use 'The Archivist' for Jon in any normal stretch of text, only when he's actively channeling Beholding powers
@@stygian6642 like elias using "The Archivist" is actually perfect, and it's always used to supplement jon's struggle of changing into something else. every time it's used it feels like a slap in the face that makes perfect sense to the world johnny built (can you tell i really like this podcast)
tma jumpscare
Epithets are useful if you want to show the viewpoint character distancing themselves from a character. But they should definitely not be used thoughtlessly.
Agreed! This video's focus on the underlining causes behind "thoughtless" epithet use meant that there wasn't a clean place to insert "when epithets are actually useful" section
Yesss
@@CoraMaria And the advice is useful for more than just epithet problems.
Yeah basically in my fanfic, when in the main character POV there's one character addressed in paragraphs as "the blue bastard", "the horned bastard" a lot because the main character doesn't trust this one character she despises. Other than that I try to be thrifty of epithet use when addressing other characters
@@fz_dracohart1255Sounds like us and one of our characters, thus far...
thank you for putting my thoughts into words!! I think the most bizarre epithet I saw was "the four-eyed girl" used seriously without a HINT of humor to refer to a character with glasses
THE FOUR-EYED GIRL omg 😂
Buhaha!😂
Next thing you know someone will unironically write "the five head" 😆
@@ShoulderMonster book where the narrator is just fucking mean
Sounds like bully POV lol 😂
The craziest one I’ve come across was definitely “the greenette.” I am unfortunately not kidding
i've even seen people say the bluette and the ravenette before
The craziest one I've seen is probably "the Chinese" 😭
I've seen a lot of the "the pinkette" and "the bluette" too, drives me absolutely insane
@@starsoullove127 i've read a fic where one of the characters was consistently called 'the Chinese' and his love interest was called 'the ginger' 😩
I’ve seen the pinkette before
I don’t think epithets are really that bad, you just have to use them well. Overusing them or putting them in sentences awkwardly among other improper uses makes them bad but epithets themselves are not all that bad.
I do agree that they have their place, such as sometimes you want to lean into that distance or ridiculousness they create, or use terms of endearment as epithets, or when you don't know a character's name.
Since this video is using epithets as a Trojan horse to explain a different issue, there wasn't a neat opportunity to discuss the benefits of well-placed epithets without distracting from the main point, but I might make a follow up video later about how to do them well, just like I have an upcoming trilogy about how to write in-character that also includes a video about why someone might choose to write out-of-character deliberately.
There are reasons to use them, if the POV character doesn't know the names of the people they interact with (the short one grinned, and stuck out his hand, "I'm your new crew member!"), or if the narration/character dehumanises the people they are describing (Evil McBaddy walked away from the cell, and order his henchmen to "take the blond one, kill the rest." Brave McHero grit his teeth as his best friend was carted off), but those situations are not very common and in the vast vast vast majority of cases it's used to talk about a main character, whose name is very definitely not in question.
As with most things, epithets are not good or bad, they're neutral. The trick is to use them with a reason and for a good purpose; "because I don't want to say the character's name again" is a terrible purpose.
It is funny how pretty much this entire video directly contradicts the advice I got in an academic writing class at my uni and I think that is because of the goal of the writing. That class gave all kinds of advice on how to make your writing, as this video put it, more repetitive. However, this was all in service of the goal in making academic writing full of complicated theory and concepts more readable. In academics writing isn’t an artform, it is a practical way to communicate information and thus it is best to make the writing as straightforward and with as little flourishes as possible so as many people can understand it as possible. The subject matter is often complicated enough without the writing style making it worse.
It is important to keep the goal of your writing in mind and I think depending on your goal both writing philosophies can be useful. There is no wrong way to write as long as others can read it and enjoy it.
This. I once wrote a fanfic that my mother couldn't read despite wanting to because she didn't know the characters. Epithets are encouraged in writing for many reasons.
@Draconicdisciple There are ways to describe characters without using constant epithets. It isn’t that you should never once describe your character as “green haired” or whatever, it’s that many beginner writers use them ALL THE TIME.
We naturally use epithets when we've just met a group of people and we're trying to figure out who is who, so it makes sense in this context to use epithets. On the other hand, it would be bizarre to refer to people you've known for years as anything other than their name.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard about this happening. Academic writing really does butt heads with artistic writing. I've proofread for people who can't stop using paragraphs that are way too big, just because school left them afraid of making paragraphs that are too small.
I have a friend who is an English teacher and he said how sometimes the advice they give is not for the sake of good writing, but rather for the sake of encouraging students to practice in other areas of writing. For instance, stories that try to avoid using "said" at every opportunity can read very awkwardly, but by encouraging students to do it, they will learn a broad vocabulary of words that resemble "said". Thus ,they are encouraged to do it in school.
@@Draconicdisciple this is a really weird example. epithets should definitely NOT be used to label the characters for someone who has no idea what's going on in the story-- unless you're doing something specific, the whole point is that your reader is fully aware of who is who and what's going on. That would be like using an epithet such as "the man who was deeply in tune with the force" in a mid-series star wars novel because some random reader might not know who Luke Skywalker is if they picked up the book, opened it to a random page, and started reading. It's actually extremely jarring to be whipped out of familiarization with the characters and distanced by epithets when the prose has already established a familiarity with them
There's a big difference, however, between "pumpkin soup bubbled in the cauldron" and "he smelled pumpkin soup bubbling in the cauldron." The first is just describing the setting; the second actually describes Link's _sensory experience_ within the setting. It puts you in Link's POV, letting you share his experience of smelling the soup - and creates a more vivid experience for the reader. Don't underestimate the power of sensory details in fiction.
Yes. The replacement should have been something like "the [adjective] scent of pumpkin soup wafted across the room" or "the warm, comforting scent of pumpkin soup filled the air; its source, a bubbling cauldron on the fire."
This removes the distancing language of "he smelled" and just tells us what it smells like/what the smell evoked.
@@schoo9256 - I think leaving the POV character out of the sentence is _more_ distancing, not less. You're supposed to be in the head of the POV character, experiencing everything through their perspective. Leaving Link out of the descriptions makes him invisible...just a blank space into which the reader inserts themselves. That's fine if that's the effect you're going for, I guess (and it mirrors the way many video games operate, so fair enough), but to me, that feels a little bland. If your POV character is a blank slate who's a placeholder for the reader, I feel like you should just write a "Y/N" reader insert and be done with it.
The idea I had was "Link entered the house, smelling pumpkin soup bubbling in a cauldron."
I do sometimes over use the false present tense verbs (I don't know their technical name haha) but I do think this one fits in the context.
@@goldegreen - Not bad, but in general, you should use normal past tense rather than "ing" word present tense most of the time. Readers tend to perceive "ing" words (gerunds) as something similar to passive verbs, and it "slows down" the narrative and makes it feel hard to get through. I'm not sure why, but it seems to be true.
I'd say something more like "Link walked in the door, and smelled pumpkin soup, rich and sweet, from where it bubbled in the cauldron. His stomach gave an eager little jump."
You need to appeal to all 5 senses in writing. Insane difference, trust
I think most of the time when i use epithets, i tend to use them to describe someone before “the reveal” or when i want a sort of “mysterious” undertone. I feel like my most common epithets are probably “the blonde, the brunette, etc” but THE _GREENETTE_ EXISTS???
(another common one I use is less words used to describe them, and more what they are - the necromancer, the water mage, etc.)
anyways let me go back and fix _every single work in progress fanfic i have_ 🤩
Cases where the POV character doesn't know the name of a character (or doesn't immediately recognise) are when epithets are very useful! That's why I specified "named characters" in the video, but ultimately epithets do have their places in prose: they just have to outweigh the cons of using them ☺
Ah, fixing old works is suuuuuuuch a mood! I've been doing that too, but for overwriting rather than epithets/repetitive sentence structure lol
@@CoraMaria the overwriting is so real 😭
Also good rather than having to do a full character description near the start of a story (especially for characters from a fandom that some readers will know) that lets new to fandom readers get a picture of them or their job before going to simply names
The MOST hilarious thing about anime fans who insist on referring to special-haired people by their special hair color is that WITHIN the story, the character may be considered plain and average-looking. In My Hero Academia, green-haired Deku is described as painfully dull-looking. In Naruto, no one considers pink-haired Sakura a beauty; instead she's self-conscious when standing next to a more regular blonde. Literally no one in Yu-Gi-Oh comments on Yugi's multi-colored hair.
But Western fanfiction writers are positively giddy about describing it and having characters comment on it as much as possible.
A post recently going around Tumblr pointed out - correctly - that epithets are *dehumanizing.* It's deliberately reducing a character down to a single attribute - and if you're keeping a close third POV, the POV character should have a reason to essentalize the character to that attribute. This is why it's jarring for characters to consider _themselves_ "the taller man" and similar, but also why epithets are particularly jarring during, er, intimate scenes. Why would character A reduce character B, whom they love, down to "the [X]" in their head during such a heated moment?
That's not actually a rhetorical question - if you put your noodle to it you may reveal some pretty interesting characterization answers. If, for example, Senshi from Dungeon Meshi thinks of Marcille as "the elf," that says much more about him and his worldview than it says about her - and that's not necessarily an inaccurate observation about him. It would be more out of character for Laios to use the same epithet on Marcille - why so? Because they've been in the same party for longer and know each other better, but also because Laios doesn't tend to essentialize people to their races in the same way.
If POV character A is referring to character B as "the tall man," "the larger man," and the like, then A is kinking on - or more accurately fetishizing - B's size disparity over them. If in an omegaverse setting someone is "the alpha" to the narrator, then they're being essentialized to their alpha-ness, to the prowess and dominance all alphas are presumed to exert. "The bluenette" might, I suppose, be being fetishized for their hair (although to be honest, I've never seen hair epithets done well, least of all the weeby rainbow hair epithets).
A well-thought-out epithet lands like a bomb.
Yes! So much this! Please link me that Tumblr post if you can because I would love to read it 👀
this is actually such a great point bc my singular character that has a couple actual canonical epithets for his name has a big thing in his story about being dehumanized and being only seen as what those epithets are lol
It's especially icky with something I've personally seen a lot of in fanfiction, that being racial epithets. Ie: the narrative specifically referring to POC characters as 'the Indian boy' or 'the Latina girl' even within their own narration, and it never being carried over to their White counterparts, who when epithets are used, will be referred to using the more normalised 'Brunet boy' or 'Blue-Eyed girl' etc.
it’s definitely the same sorta vibe as dudes who call girls “females,” you sound like you’re on national geographic dawg please
This was so interesting to read and explained A LOT!
"The purplette" broke my brain.
Oh god any epithet that has unnatural hair colours (in the context of our world) are an instant no for me
It's quite Purplettexing.
@@CoraMaria once saw someone (jokingly) suggest "smurfette" for blue haired characters and it still haunts me sometimes.
@@CoraMariaIs it worse than when we called one of our characters "the orange"?
I read a one shot collection where for the chapter with one of my ships, one girl was referred to as “the ravenette” more times then as her name, and it drove me insane. Tbf fair I didn’t really like that authors writing style in general, but they never did that for any character in any chapter before or after?? 😭
Am I the only one who likes epithets when they’re used to emphasize a certain quality of a character? For example, if you want to highlight how young a character is, then referring to him as “the teenager” instead of “he” or “[teen boy’s name]” occasionally can be really useful. Especially if the POV character is an adult, who it makes sense would feel responsible for the younger character.
I'm no professional but I do find myself reacting differently to it depending on context. Sometimes it feels fine and like a natural way to tell apart two characters. But if it's repeated a couple of times it starts to get grating. I'm not sure why, it just instinctively feels wrong
I like using a variety of epithets for characters so even if the chapter only has two or three people, if they're all guys (for instance) using "he" constantly doesn't narrow down anything. But having a few "titles" keeps it from getting stale while also reminding of different traits or jobs that might be important for the audience to remember. "The blond" and "the brunette" may distinguish characters but depending on the scene it may be better to have "the old soldier" "the young delivery girl" or something to convey why they may act the way they do because of their background.
One of my favorite fics though, I used the basic age epithets to sneak in a secret before it was revealed. In this case we had "the boy" and "the teen" for most of the story but then the teen was cursed and where he's growing physically older. The kids don't think much about it because of bigger problems, but it does cause a bit of panic once they finally realize one is changing while the other hasn't. However, even before the reveal, I had already started using "the young man" and "the former Champion" for the teen to signify a shift had happened.
Epithets can be great when used in this way. I like to sprinkle a few in to i'm not constantly repeating the character's name, often to describe things like the character's occupation, hobbies or characteristics.
For example: 'She smiled softly before inhaling the smoke and blowing it in the assassin's face.'
This is a line in one of my wips and creates contrast between the first character, who is playful in nature, and an assassin, who is considered to typically be more serious or demure in nature.
Some other ones I like that I've used in this same fic are 'the bashful bard', 'the young scion', 'her parasitic companion'. All of these tell a story and add to the characterisation of each person being referred to.
I even took an epithet from canon that is used frequently and that works well, 'The Master', referring to one of the main character's former enslavers. The reason The Master works so well is because that is all this character knows her enslaver as. She doesn't know his name, or much about him really, just that he used to own her. Reducing him to just being her enslaver is actually quite powerful narratively and something I quite like about the canon narrative, the tables are turned from the victim being dehumanised to her overpowering her abuser.
Epithets have to be extremely relevant to what is currently happening or they're distracting. To me, virtually any physical descriptor as an epithet is going read as bad writing (basically making it clear that someone is unable to write in a way that keeps the characters straight without resorting to epithets). However, if the character is doing something, using their career or title as an epithet would be highly relevant and make sense (i.e. "the experienced pilot reacted to the cockpit alarm with practiced efficiency"). If the character has had something happen to them that affects how they act going forward, that would be highly relevant and make sense (i.e. "the wounded woman struggled to regain her footing as she turned to face her attacker."). The only time a physical descriptor doesn't immediately jump out at me as distracting is when a physical characteristic is relevant to what's happening. (i.e "The burly thief easily pinned the duke to the wall while his partner in crime rifled through his pockets.") Furthermore, the POV character, the one we're following along with as readers, should NEVER be referred to by an epithet. That immediately throws you out of the story and changes the POV of the entire work. Unless that is the intended stylistic effect, it will come across as bad writing to the reader.
In the MLP fanfic site 'FiMfiction' they even gave a name to this phenomenon: Lavender Unicorn Syndrome :p
I usually avoid epithets in writing, but I still sometimes found my sentences sounded stilted and repetitive, so this advice is quite useful ^c^
I heard it referred to as "Purple Unicorn Syndrome" hence why I had to make that reference in the video lol
Fimfic mention! Yes I’ve read the writing advice of the site, and sometimes in the comments I see the mention of this syndrome. I find it hilarious Twi has a whole syndrome name after her.
Oh the tip on changing up the subject-verb-object order is a gamechanger, I've always seen people give examples of that but I've never been able to recognize what exactly they do thank you!
Awesome! Always good to have that trick in your back pocket 😉
Rewriting the first paragraph in my style as an exercise, I invite you to do the same! ^^
When Link entered the house, the warm scent of Uncle Rusl’s good’ol pumpkin soup filled the room. The old man greeted him over the cauldron’s loud bubbles and ladled a bowl to him. They both sat at the dinner table after Rusl served himself, two cold empty seats alongside them.
Okay let me try:
The house smelt like pumkin soup when Link entered, he could hear it bubbling in the caulron. A bowl was ladled to him with a greeting and a sombre smile from Uncle Rusl. The old man severed himself before they both sat down at the diningtable.
OOH this is cool. here’s mine, i interpreted and added a lot of stuff besides just restructuring it lol:
Link crossed the threshold to the house, and as soon as he adjusted to his new surroundings, he was met with the scent of pumpkin soup coming from his uncle Rusl’s cauldron from across the room. The man greeted him, grinning somberly, and offered him a bowl, before serving himself. Link sat at the table, staring down into the bowl. It was orange and bubbling and visibly thick, garnished with a small clove of Hylian greenherb. Warm air rose into his face as the soup steamed-in fact, the cooking had made the entire room warm, even comfortable. But an undeniable sadness hung over the two-it was difficult to put out of mind the two empty seats they dined with, cold and lifeless. Once they began to eat, however, the soup filled their bodies and spirits with warmth, and the absence became that much easier to bear.
When Link opened the door he was greeted by the smell of warm pumpkin soup, and the somber smile of Uncle Rus, who stood over the bubbling cauldron. He ladled soup into a bowl and offered it to Link, then poured some for himself when Link accepted. The pair sat in silence with only each other, and two cold empty seats for company.
I tried lol
Lemme try (but i havent been involved in Zelda fandom for years)
Led in by the overpowering scent of pumpkin, Link entered the house to see the source--- soup of the same flavor bubbling up in a cauldron, on the brink of overflowing, a few orange-brown drops already having slipped over the edges. As if by routine, he crossed the room with his bowl, letting Uncle Rusl fill it up with a plain yet familiar ladle. With nothing more to say, they sat immediately after Rusl served himself, the two men in chairs awkwardly perpendicular, the matching chairs empty and cold from disuse.
hehe i mightve corrupted it a bit with my own interpretations of the paragraph... havent written in a while but i think i still got it :)
it’s so cool seeing everyone’s writing style!! here’s mine:
As Link entered the house, the smell of pumpkin soup emanating from the cauldron greeted him. Uncle Rust offered him a bow with a sombre smile, and he briskly crossed the room to collect it. He sat down at the table, Uncle Rust joining him with a bowl of his own. The soup was warm on his tongue, but two seats remained cold and empty.
At first I clicked on this video thinking it was about Epithet Erased, and was very confused until I realized what you were actually talking about.
Same lol
Same
same💀
...same. Even though that makes no sense 😭
Omgggg the examples of epithets you mentioned blasted me back in time to when I was first getting into reading fic and got blindsided by “the green-haired man”….😭😂 I have always been an avid avoider of epithets, but that certainly doesn’t mean my prose is free from this issue! Thanks so much for this great advice-the example you edited was such a glow up! I’ll look out for repetitive sentence structure in my editing now I know what to look for!😁
Not you calling out my first ever chapter😭
The MOST hilarious thing about anime fans who insist on referring to special-haired people by their special hair color is that WITHIN the story, the character may be considered plain and average-looking. In My Hero Academia, green-haired Deku is described as painfully dull-looking. In Naruto, no one considers pink-haired Sakura a beauty; instead she's self-conscious when standing next to a more regular blonde. Literally no one in Yu-Gi-Oh comments on Yugi's multi-colored hair.
But Western fanfiction writers are positively giddy about describing it and having characters comment on it as much as possible.
@@Cityweaver HAHA literally it was a MHA fic i was reading that had “green-haired man” LMAO! And I absolutely agree. It really takes me out of the story when unnaturally-coloured hair is mentioned unless it’s canonically unusual or dyed or something. I see the fun hair colours in anime as more of a stylistic choice of the medium that doesn’t really translate to written word.
@@trashcan-train I have never seen a more body conscious fandom than MHA. It's like a wormhole of secondary school puberty angst. 🤣 In a story where people are half-frog, have four arms, or can manifest cameras from their hands, people write fanfics about Deku's feelings about having curly hair, freckles, or being short. 🤣
@@Cityweaver HAHAHA awww bless. To be honest, the feelings of puberty and body consciousness to dysmorphia would be super interesting to explore in a fic for characters OTHER than Deku who are more non-human in appearance.👀
My introduction to fanfiction was Naruto fanfiction, so I grew up reading the epithets "blond-haired fox" and "raven-haired boy." To me, I was never confused as to who they were referring to, but they were used in excess to the point where it became kind of off-putting to read. Also, they were regularly used in romantic contexts, so they became really awkward to read. This video was insightful and funny, because I never realized how much hell people were raising about them.
"Blond-haired fox" is a new one! And using epithets (especially physical descriptors) in romantic contexts -a situation where your goal is to build intimacy and chemistry- is suuuuuper counter-productive! The only epithets that work in romantic contexts are terms of endearment: his beloved, her lover, their darling, etc. I have the characters in my fic think of each other as "his shadow" and "her wolf" when they're feeling particularly intimate, because it makes sense in the context of the story.
I feel like epithets are alright if used sparingly and if the epithets refer to traits other than the character's hair and/or eyes.
Except it's not just the eye and hair colour epithets that are an issue. It's any that serve no purpose other than to hide repetition. Bad epithets for named characters can also be things like "the older sibling", "the taller man", "the [insert fictional race here]", etc. How many of us look at someone we know and think "ah yes, the taller man!" in our heads? How many of us think of ourselves as "the younger one"? It makes the POV we're in less immersive, and in the case of epithets that rely on comparing age or height, fans can't be relied on to remember who is taller or who is older, so again, it makes things not only distant, but confusing.
However, epithets are useful for characters that the POV character doesn't know the name of, or when you want to reinforce a particular relationship during key moments for a little extra punch, such as "For the first time in months, he kissed his beloved" or "her childhood friend, her rock, her pillar was dead, and there was no one left to stop her from unraveling."
@@CoraMaria I don't disagree that a lot of inexperienced writers often use epithets as a crutch to hide repetitive writing, and that there are others ways to avoid repetitive writing without using epithets. But I personally think there are some situations where using epithets is alright, such as when you want to describe an important description/trait of the character without delving too deep into their appearance. Or maybe you want to briefly mention their occupation, such as "the prosecutor" or "the chemistry teacher". Basically, if you want to use epithets, you must have a purpose for it.
Maybe I'm an outlier, but I personally don't really mind epithets as long as the situation calls for it and the writer doesn't overdo it.
@@CoraMaria Well, in stories where seniority means hierarchy it is sometimes important to reminds the reader of who is the older one in a given situation. Also if one wishes to remind the reader of the skintone of a character...
@@LadyBelleslettres I do agree that epithets should have a purpose in order to outweigh the potential cons. I just found the idea of "as long as they don't mention eye or hair colour" to not be broad enough 🙂
@@CoraMaria I strongly agree with your point that epithets should be used in meaningful situations and reveal something relevant about the relationship, the character being referred to, or the character doing the referring.
For instance, in my own fanfic, one of my characters has sort of questionable morals and tends to get frustrated easily with other characters. So, sometimes I'll use specific epithets when in her POV that are meant to dehumanize the other characters and thus show her frustration. She often refers to certain other characters of mine in charming ways such as "that clueless prince" or "that stupid girl." I'm careful not to do things like this too often, of course, but I do believe it serves a narrative purpose and gets a point across!
I also agree with @LadyBelleslettres that occupations such as "the chemistry teacher," or in another one of my own fics, "the doctor," can be used on occasion, especially in times when their occupation is relevant, such as when said doctor is performing a checkup on the POV character.
Alternatively, if you don't know someone's name, you often will refer to them by their occupation or by a different defining trait of theirs. If I don't know my doctor's name, I refer to them in my head as "the doctor" until I know their name.
My sibling and I both read a lot of fanfic, and so they created a shared google doc where we both write down the worst epithets we’ve seen! It’s quite long by now and has 5 separate fandoms on it 😂 We realise fanfic writers are often young/new to writing or don’t edit their work before posting, and we’d never publicly mock someone’s writing, but it’s just a funny thing for us to look back at!
This video was a really good explanation of why authors use epithets though, and I’ll definitely keep this in mind next time I’m writing!
I love how you are so positive and encouraging, pointing out the surface problem, the underlying issue, and giving helpful advice and examples to fix it without harping on people for being terrible writers! Now I know what to watch out for to avoid this issue :)
My English teacher would always tell us not to start sentences with names and pronouns but never really explained why or how to avoid it. Your video structured the issue perfectly and made it easy to understand. When I started writing FanFiction I found epithets ans thought that was the solution to not finding ways to restructure my sentences. I’ve grown out of the usage as I’ve gotten older but you definitely brought up some good points to keep in mind when writing. Thank you for sharing this video it has been quite eye opening.
I think epithets are fine in small doses. But gosh if I have to read “the pinkette” one more time I’m throwing my phone. 😭
I probably overuse age related ones the most. “The teen”, “The elderly woman” etc.
This is really helpful, thank you! I couldn't put my finger on why epithets in fics irked me. Knowing how to vary the sentences will really help my writing, I often fall into the repetitive sentence and filter word trap.
I really appreciate that your videos are captioned, it helps my auditory processing!
Yes I'm so glad this video was enlightening for you! And I also struggle with auditory processing sometimes so captions are a must!
One of the most egregious cases of trying to avoid repetitiveness I've come across wasn't actually epithets, it was names. There were two Japanese characters in the scene, and the writer constantly alternated calling them by their family names and their given names, which created a very... awkward effect, to put it mildly.
Yeeeep at that point they're trying to "hide" the issue the same way we use epithets XD
I do think there is a good reason to use an epithet. It’s to highlight a relevant trait of the character. Like:
---
The rich boy looked at him, confused. “Why don’t you just ask your parents for more money?”
---
“Trust me, you won’t find wool this fine anywhere else in the land,” the shrewd merchant said enticingly.
---
Both characteristics are relevant to the discussion at hand. The guy is confused *because* he’s rich. Also, if the character is a grown man, it’ll highlight his immaturity. The merchant is probably trying to pull wool over customer’s eyes with his shrewdness. Etc.
I thought this was about epithet erased and I was confused about who was also using the epithet power system in media. Carry on
3:24 I would change it to something along the lines of “The smell of pumpkin soup wafted from the bubbling cauldron” to appeal to all of the readers senses. It helps with immersion, and most, if not all, good fics and books appeal to all 5 senses.
Another fantastic video! I absolutely agree that epithets are used most often to disguise poor sentence construction and repetitiveness in their writing. I do have to disagree about the 'She soared to the clouds' vs 'To the clouds she soared' example - the latter feels like a quite dated phrasing, to me, which would stick out in my mind when reading. I think the important thing to remember is that the most common sentence structure in English is SVO (subject verb object), and so if most of your writing is not that people will think something's up - but animate objects can be the subject as much as any character, case in point 'the nostalgic aroma of pumpkin soup welcomed him' where the smell of pumpkin soup is personified as welcoming Link, who is the object. Your characters do not always need to be the subject in a sentence, and a sentence does not always need to start with its subject, especially if you have events occuring concurrently (ie 'with a somber smile, he...'). I know I certainly have a tendency to over-use the present participle for this purpose 😅
also forgot to say that there are places in a story where the use of epithets are acceptable to me. The first, of course, is prior to knowing a person's name such that their epithets and pronouns are the only ways to reference them. The second instance is to take advantage of the fact that an epithet describes a person by one of their features (like 'taller man' or 'brunette' or even 'his friend' or 'the drunkard' etc etc) and so, if you wanted in a moment to highlight that feature for comedic, ironic, dramatic purposes etc, it becomes reasonable to want to describe them as such. For example, you might describe somebody by an epithet because that epithet combined with the action they're performing makes them a hypocrite, like if a daredevil character was getting on another's case for being reckless, for ironic comedy purposes. Or for another example, if you have a character saving or failing to save their friend, using that epithet could make the event more emotionally powerful by reminding the reader of that key piece of information about them that colours the interaction. The risk, of course, is that when you use the epithet you could create distance from your reader and thereby weaken an emotional resolution or a comedic moment instead of strengthen it, so it's up to a writer and if they think they can pull it off - for me, since there are other ways to do these effects that are less risky, I don't tend to go for it myself. YMMV tho
Again, fantastic video!
You make a lot of good points, but with regards to the specific "To the clouds, she soared" example, I'm a proponent that powerful prose will end its sentences on the words it wants to emphasise the most. If it's the soaring part you want to emphasise, then that would be the word to end on.
@@AshBreeX Yeah this video didn't have much of an opportunity to go into the good uses for epithets, mostly because I was using epithets as a Trojan Horse to explain a different issue, but I do agree that they have their place sometimes (plus leaving the 'Here's when epithets are good to use' part out at least serves as engagement bait lol😜)
@@CoraMaria i get ending on the word you want to emphasize, but "to the clouds she soared" definitely sounds kinda weird. i'm much less bothered by "into the clouds she soared," but that sentence structure still feels sort of...idiomatic?...to me, like "there she goes." "and off she went." "away she flew." "into the clouds she soared." there's a specific connotation there. i think it has to do with the way verbs that involve going to a place work-i have no issue with "in the clouds, she soared," because the action here is soaring and "in the clouds" is just a description of where it happens, whereas in your example, the full action is soaring to the clouds.
also, for the record, the fundamental SVO structure in english almost never changes (you shouldn't really say stuff like "the apple, timmy ate"). what you can move is stuff like adverbial phrases and prepositional phrases (you could say either "timmy ate the apple slowly and carefully," "timmy slowly and carefully ate the apple," or even "slowly and carefully, timmy ate the apple").
sorry to go all "well actually" on you though. good video
Whattt this video's everything I've ever needed regarding this particular topic: it's to the point and tackles the root of the problem. I'd never realized the cause was repetitive writing! I have scrapped epithets a long time ago, but something still felt off and now I know why.
Honestly, your channel is everything the fanfic writing community needed, I just wish I'd found it sooner. It's honest, good-natured and thoughtful advice. Thanks for the great video!
Ahhh I'm so glad I could help you out! It's so awesome when you find that resource that just makes it click for you💖
i actually recently discovered this exact issue in my writing and have been fixing it accordingly ever since! i never connected it to the use of epithets though, as i tend to avoid them anyway, so this video was really insightful even after already having realized this :)
perhaps the oddest epithets i've seen are "the ravenette" (also he was a man so "ette" doesn't really make sense?) and "the sword-wielding male" like if you must use an epithet just say swordsman?? swordsman is a far more appealing word
anyway good vid!!
The virgin "sword-wielding male" vs the chad "swordsman" vs the gigachad "[Insert Name Here]" lol
@@CoraMaria LMAO FR
@@CoraMaria The gigachad "[Insert Name Here] THE BLADE"
I didn't even realize this problem, probably because I naturally avoid epithets in my writing, only really using them sparingly, if at all. Though I will keep an eye out for repetitive writing now! I struggle with that a bit, but I think I know how to solve the issue now.
I am an old fic veteran of many a fandom war so I was like, "pfft, I don't need this." But I clicked for your adorable vibe and am so pleased with your insightful advice. Subbed!
I didn't know people hate epithets 😔, I quite like reading them in the story cause it makes it more descriptive but this advice is real nice
Ok but this video did a better job at explaining how to add sentence structure variety than most educational videos and I kind of want to use this with my students next year...
The sentence structure thing is gonna be so helpful for me. I'm someone who likes writing very dialogue-heavy stuff, and the constant paragraph breaks have made writing out the descriptors (filling in the blanks I call it) my least favorite part of writing due to that repetition. I've been slogging through a single chapter for months now because i don't like it that much. This is gonna help a lot!
I thought I was overusing them but I looked back and it was only really a problem in my older fics. All my WIPs don’t seem to have this problem. Maybe I subconsciously noticed and started trying to correct it myself
Improvement is often intuitive. I know this because sometimes people will ask me to do a video on a particular topic (like dialogue) and I'm just like "I know I do it well but I don't know how I do it well?"
My dumbass self thought you were referring to show/book Epithet Erased, and i was so genuinely confused because that's whay they call the superpowers in that world lol-
Guess I'll join in the rewrite-the-Zelda-paragraph challenge:
The moment Link entered the house, the smell of pumpkin soup seemed to bore into his chest. He listened to the cauldron bubbling softly over the heat of the fire as he closed the door behind him, shutting out the draughts of nighttime air. Uncle Rusl simply greeted him with a somber smile and ladled him a bowl, and Link crossed the room to take it. Once Rusl had served himself as well, they sat down at the dining table together, two more seats looming cold and empty across from them.
This is SO helpful for me! Although I heard these tips before, actually seeing them all in one video and with examples is great
I'm glad~!
I didn't expect to learn a new writing term from a sweet shop owner today, but I'm now painfully aware of how often I do this, thank you.
It’s me I’m the epithet over user lets goooo 🔥🔥🔥 but omg bluenette and similar ones are always my last straw personally lmao 😭 but then I’m a hypocrite and not much better with my “the blue haired girl-😋” anyways this was really helpful and I like your energy!! subscribing 👍
Yay, thank-you! (shakes fist) One day I shall convince you to leave your epithet ways behind! 😛
This definitely brought back memories of my own fanfics. I haven't written a fanfic in a while, but writing original works has helped fix the epithet problem for me. Here's my version of the example:
The calm bubbling and comforting smell of pumpkin soup greets Link as he enters the house. With a sombre smile, Uncle Rusl holds out a bowl which Link takes with careful hands. After Rusl serves himself, they sit at the table together with only two cold, empty seats and the occasional crackle of the fire for company.
Love this! I had a quit reading a really good story due to not being able to take one more ridiculous epithet. This will help my own writing. Thank you.
No problem!
Oh my god THANK YOU. I've been trying to figure out how to fix this for A WHILE.
I think bluenette and pinkette, both used in the same fic, might be one of the more egregious ones- they’re definitely the most memorable, considering it was a fossil fighters fic I read upwards of ten years ago now. I tend to avoid epithets but I know I’ve slipped into them before- especially the taller/shorter one when writing two characters with the same pronouns- but even though I try to avoid them I feel like I do tend to fall into the issues of repetitive sentence structure you talked about even still, so this is pretty helpful!
I'm glad you learned something valuable from this vid! And as someone who has written a chapter where all three characters used they/them, I totally get the pronoun issue. I wouldn't be surprised if I have to pick out a few epithets myself when it's time to edit it 😂
YOU'RE JOKING I THOUGHT FOSSIL FIGHTERS WAS A FEVER DREAM
People write Fossil Fighters Fanfics? It better be crawling with Duna Angst fics
This is great advice! As someone who takes creative writing classes, and as someone who used to be notorious for using epithets in an attempt to avoid repetition, my tutor offered the same advice! This video is so helpful for authors in general because it also offers advice on how to avoid it, and how to improve sentence structure/variety in general! :D
Dude I've been grappling with repetitive sentence structure in my writing so much, this was so helpful
I’m so glad that I’m dyslexic, have a horrible time remembering names in general while reading and just give nicknames to everyone.
I used to be sooooooooo bad about this and I could TELL it was making my prose weird but I couldn't figure out why. This is a great video! Thank you for makin it.
I edit irl and epithets are something I crush immediately. There was one short story I'll never forget because its author repeatedly referred to her MC as "the blonde". I think it's a consequence of having "show, don't tell" drilled in. People don't want to just say a physical detail because they're being told it's incorrect. You really don't need to describe a character more than twice, less so in fanfic because we already know what the characters look like. It's also more common in fics that are short on dialogue. People want to pad their writing, and purple prose is a great way to do it. They (usually) grow out of it, if given direction.
THANK YOU. I often find myself using these and going "Why. Why am I still doing this." and you've outlined REASONS and offered actual fixes! Thank you for going deeper on it!
That said, does anyone else ever have the secondary, barely related problem where you're kind of a shameful person by default (as in you shame yourself a lot) and you try writing something intimate (either in the spicy way or just the emotional way) and you realize, as you are typing out the names that specifically belong to only one specific fandom and only ever have, that you are writing ROMANCE FIC of a CHARACTER who has long been known in the public eye as NOT A ROMANCE HERO and so then you feel compelled to write stuff like "He tenderly kissed the other" so that you don't have to confront the fact that the two people kissing are, like, Disney Villains or Decepticons or Jedi who have never done that in canon, and you know YOU might love envisioning these fantasies with them but you're not sure how others will take it so you try to dull the reality?
CORA MARIA YOU’VE ONCE AGAIN SAVED MY WRITING I LOVE YOU
I’ll edit my in-the-works works better now!! I’ve only learned about the distancing habits from an amazing writer and friend and Quotev recently when she read my most recent book/chapter! I never knew, I’m so grateful and this is already giving me tons of ideas!!
I liked the first paragraph with the epithets tbh, but yeah if not used well enough they do suck. You did great, though! I’ll limit them to when they are actually giving useful information.
I don't like it with the epithets because it pulls us out of Link's head and makes us view him as an outsider, while also making his relationship with Rusl feel more distant. None of those epithets make sense to what Link would be thinking about himself or Rusl.
This is a good video! But also so funny that it was recommended to me because I'm currently planning out a Norse Mythology inspired fic and for stylistic reasons I have deliberately been trying to give each character as many epithets as possible while still making it clear which character I'm talking about in the moment. :) It's very self- indulent but I love reading works where it is done well
I love your style. The colors makes me happy without being overwhelming. Thank you for the video.
This is such a helpfull tip ! Thank you so much. This motivated to open my wip fic and do some editing.
Glad I could help! Hope those edits go well :)
This randomly appeared in my recomended and i think im going to binge all your content now!! I write- mostly my ocs but i have a fanfics set in franchises I like (with my ocs, of course) and i dont post it anywhere (nor do my friends read it when i show it to them... sigh). Though ive written for awhile i very much think i'm still a beginner. the few tips shared here about restructuring sentences made me really think. When i finally get around to editing my (unfinished) fic i'll def have to do that!!!
and unrelated but i love your aesthetic. The wall behind you is so fun and colorful and the fact your outfit matches? awesome. v colorful, fun and cozy vibe.
Ahh thank-you! I hope you enjoy them all 💖
Thanks for the pointers! Seeing this video was such a relief because I didn't even know what those were called or that people found them to be a problem. I'm thankful that I now know and have the tools to avoid doing this with my future writing ^^
Commenting as second kudos. I need to edit some of my older works I think!😅
Mood! I've been editing my old chapters too, though for reasons other than epithets. I'm just an overwriter who has too much rambling monologue 😂
I very much appreciate the second kudos~!
I feel like it's harder when you have to people of the same gender interacting. For example, "he touched him" doesn't work very well as it causes confusion over who's touching who, or if he's touching himself, stuff like that.
Can I just say, I just found your channel and I LOVE your aesthetic!! It’s so pleasing to look at the color palette in your outfit for this one!!
This the most useful advice on how to edit I've ever seen and it's already started to improve my writing. Thank you so much!
Holy frigg I'm super guilty of this! I'm writing my first fanfiction though, so I'm a bit excused... by the way I was already trying not to overused them, by writing sentences structured in a way that you know who is talking/acting. But I still have a long way too go, this video was indeed enlighting! By the way here's the epithet I use way too often (I challenge you to guess the fantom I'm writing for):
- the King
- the fallen angel
- the princess
- the former exorcist
Honestly my mind is only going to 'Blue Exorcist' which I haven't even watched 😅
I'm glad you're already doing what you can to avoid epithet overuse! It takes time, practice, and plenty of editing to create dynamic prose 💖
Hazbin Hotel
@@evelynjones7118 yep XD
As someone who uses Epithets in a manner inspired by classicaal literature, I was so confused by this whole thing 😂
Thank you so much for this video. I have always struggled with my writing being repetitive and filled with fillers and epithets so you’ve absolutely helped me with this video and got an immediate subscribe from me.
omg I love your style and your advice! Thank you, TH-cam algorithm, for recommending this channel to me!! 💖💖
I’ve recently became a fanfic writer on AO3 because TADC has me by its hooks right now, and one of the most common obstacles I’ve come across in my writing is knowing/ choosing when to use epithets sparingly or when not to use them at all so this video has given some very good advice that I can implement for future works. Thank You
I also really like that you pointed out how using epithets unnecessarily can come across as dehumanizing for the characters that you are writing for, but something that I’ve found to be rather compelling about writing/reading stories for TADC is that using epithets (when not done excessively) kinda highlights how messed up it is that these characters, despite being human, are sometimes not described/ referred to as such because of how inhuman they look.
For instance, when I use epithets like “the jester”, “the doll”, or “the rabbit” when referring to one the characters in the sentence, I usually try to use it when something is happening that is relevant to that description.
Otherwise, yes, I try my best not to make my writing feel too over bloated with unnecessary epithets. I’m actually gonna try and practice with a new story.
yo fellow TADC fan 😧
Also what epithet would you use to describe Caine because I feel like it would be pretty hard to describe him appearance-wise lol
@@St0rmiiDayz450 Easiest would be "the ringmaster", but let's see... If you want a long one for some specific scene: "the all-seeing dentures". Maybe "gnawing AI" could be somewhere, like if he's being annoying to someone? "Chomp on googly-eyes"...?
DAPPER PEARLY-WHITES?! Does the word peepers fit in one...? Heh...
@@St0rmiiDayz450 Yeah, which is why I don’t use physical descriptors as epithets for him because then it would get wordy. Instead I like referring to him as “the A.I.” or the “the ringmaster”.
This video has actually changed my life, thank you so much ;0;
I have to ask. If we stop using words like Bluenette and Silverette, where is the fun? You are right, it breaks up the writing for the author who feels like they are seeing the characters name too much or starting every sentence with a name but this is about fun overall and doesn’t need a witchhunt.
Thank you. I was trying to hide the name of my main character for one chapter, but the constant repetitive use of epithets were driving me crazy--and I didn't even know that was what they were called. Unwittingly, I had also used those exact writing tips to maneuver around my epithets. Now I worry since a good chunk of my book will initially involve epithets until they are not needed by the plot. I'll keep this repetitiveness in mind.
I do wanna say this is the first video i saw of you and its fantastic! Im definjtely subscribing and i wanna see more videos like this in the future!
Thanks so much! I have a trilogy all about writing in/out of character on the way, and it's some of my best work 💖
Most useful writing advice I’ve ever heard. And delivered efficiently, too!! Awesome video, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
this video is really well put and concise ! i struggle to follow a lot of writing advice videos because of their length and wording. this is one of the few i've understood properly on a first viewing !! great video !!!
I'm so glad! Clear and concise is the way to go! 💖
I'm not even two minutes in yet, but the intro reminded me of a writer I left a review for on HPFF. I asked why they couldn't just use the character's names because all of the epithets were confusing and they told me that not using them was boring and they wished JKR had used more of them in her work, the writing wasn't descriptive enough. This was also someone who would describe in painstaking detail every article of clothing a person wore and the food they ate and the rooms they were in, but yeah. I knew that this sort of overly descriptive writing just pulled me from the story because I want to imagine their hair color or eye color or height every time it's mentioned, and I don't need to imagine hair color in the middle of an argument, unless its about how the POV character wants to put their hands in it or destroy it.
At first I was confused because I’ve never seen comments like that about epithets. But your video explained it really well, and now I know how to get better at writing. Thank you.
And I love your outfit and your background !
(I hope my english is not too bad-)
Kouhei Kadono uses epithets in his light novel, "Boogiepop and Others: Boogiepop Doesn't Laugh." He uses the epithet, "the Fire Witch" to describe one of his characters, Nagi Kirima, to describe her fearsome reputation. Guess how many times he uses this in 236 pages, he uses it 10 times in the entire book, 10.
I don't write fanfiction, but this still helps with writing my novel, thank you
Lowkey this is just good writing advice in general
Thank you! I didn't know about Epithets, but I do use them at times. I will have to keep an eye on them in the future!
You, your style, the background. This video is filling me with aesthetic feelings
Subscribed. You break down writing rules really effectively.
Nah bc why was this more helpful than my ELA teacher
Oh my God, I'm so glad your channel came up in my recommendations! For the longest time, I've been looking for a writing advice channel that's not JUST catered to beginners. Epithets haven't been a problem for me personally, but repetition in my writing definitely has been. Your suggestions, along with your examples, are perfectly straightforward. I feel like I can still take away some stella advice from this video even though epithets aren't my problem. I can't wait to check out some of your other videos!
Omg writing advice
oh my god... I literally needed this!! I always start creative writing with the same structure and never knew how to fix it. Thank you so much!
I'd never heard of epithets before and I'm so glad I watched this video because this is such a useful thing to know when writing!!
Oh, so I got this in my recommended and I clicked it without knowing what to expect since I've never seen your channel before. And it was so nice! So useful and well explained! I love it
For starters, I didn't expect that background music, I've never seen someone choose something like... a music box, I think? As background music. And it fits so well, not sure why, but I really like that choice. Oh and the color palette is very nice too!
Regarding the writing stuff, I love the advice given here. It has explanations, examples and is given in a respectful manner. I think the one that will help me the most will be the last one, 'switch the order'. Writing in my mother tongue is much easier for me, and switching the order around comes fairly naturally. It's somewhat flexible, imo. As long as you are careful, verbs, subject, object and adverbs can be moved around more or less freely. But when I try writing in English, everything I know about writing seems to fly out the window... so I hadn't even noticed I could do that. While there is such a thing as 'too much', there's more freedom than I previously thought. I think I'll give it a try tomorrow.
I haven't written a fic in so long. Years, in fact. I'm happy I get to do it again. I think I'll check your other videos...
And epithets! I have seen _the pinkette_ in English and _the greenette_ translated to my first language!! That was... definitely SOMETHING hahaha
Very helpful as always!!
(Not my books having 1 different writing style per chapter)
Some years ago I used epithets all the time, and I remember saying I used them because I didn't want my writing to be too repetitive. I don't use them nearly as much as I do now, but this is still good advice to keep in mind. Repetitiveness in my writing is always a huge concern of mine.
Oh, my gosh. A fanfic writer running a TH-cam channel who regularly uses The Legend of Zelda to make examples. I love your style so much! Count me in for whatever you do next
this was so helpful! epithets are awful and there are times when i'm writing that i think "ugh, an epithet here would be so useful if i didn't absolutely hate them". i didn't realise it could be an "easily" fix like this! thank you for the tips, i will put them into practice :)
Of course! It goes to show why the conversation should never end with "Epithets are annoying so don't use them!" You need to show them how to leave them behind.
Yea, I tend to stick to epithets for characters that I have yet to reveal the name of, and even then, I tend to write from the point of view of characters that would quickly come up with a nickname for someone in their head if they don't know their actual name.
Wow, after this video I'm genuinly going to become a better writer! Thanks!
Wonderful! May your writing improve by leaps and bounds
Bro, I didn't even know what an epithet was before I came here, I just saw the coolest looking person on the planet in the thumbnail and had to click 😭😭
It's really the same problem as thesaurus-y synonyms used to mask that a paragraph is just repeating the same idea over and over.
I love your background!
This is absolutely fantastic advice, but I do have an issue with the 4:35 example in that all 3 sentences are the same structure again. *"With/upon something, subject does this as/with something else happening".* I feel this example would be stringer if the Uncle Rusl sentence and only that sentence started with him as the subject to have variety in sentence length. *"When Link entered the house, the nostalgic aroma of soup welcomed him from the cauldron. Uncle Russl welcomed Link as well, handing him a freshly-ladled bowl. Once Russl served himself, they sat at the dining table together, with two more cold, empty seats for company."* The variety of sentence length and structure in the middle may make this scene flow better
It’s a long tradition. The oldest attributes are associated with Gods of Death, and Cthonia. Gods you normally don’t want to notice you- which, is why these terms of non endearment exist in the first place. Typically, they’re in reference to an event, character trait, or physical attribute. Hades, Greek God of the Dead, was known as ‘The Stoic’. Persephone- today, perceived as a spring princess, was at the time referred to as ‘The Dreaded’.
Epithets are a very valuable tool, harkening back countless millenia. However, to use them lightly is an abuse of the tradition- they should not be bandied about, passed off so carelessly as affectionate nicknames. They should be treated with more weight, and will ideally reveal something about both the bearer of the title, and the one speaking it.
This gets a lot harder to do in quick-shot, fast-paced dialogues that need tags (which is a difficulty of mine), but this is great advice. I've been doing that without noticing, and I thought that because of that, my writing was annoying, difficult and too poetic (I started writing poetry and then moved to prose when I was a kid), but it's good to know the effort is appreciated (at least by some readers). We'll never be everybody's cup of tea anyway /shrug. I think playing with the rules for a certain effect is also nice, but then again that's the poet in me speaking. Let us all keep in mind that it's good, it's awesome, to get better at writing, but never forget to have fun!
This is actually very helpful!! I tend to be an epiphet user, mostly because i write about my own characters, and a lot of them tend to be similar to each other [i.e. the ones im currently writing are a group of male clowns and/or toys], perhaps this advice doesn't particularly apply to original work, but nonetheless, your advice is very helpful and I'll try to put it in my current and future works!
Lets not forget that repetition, especially repetitive sentence structure, can still be effective tools when used properly. I personally enjoy when short, simple, repetitive sentences are used when the narrative reaches some sort of climax or moment of tension. It’s a great way to make the reader feel racing thoughts, just like the characters in the story may be experiencing.