Having watched the ruling live (3am my time), what I heard was a de facto ceasefire. What I heard immediately in the media was that because the ruling didn't include the word 'ceasefire' it was meaningless. I was shocked and pleased by the ruling, and hearing the quotes from UN officials made it more powerful. I hope people watch the entire ruling rather than relying on the media's reactions.
The ICJ couldnt order a ceasefire, because it doesnt have jurisdiction over Hamas. It only has jurisdiction over States ie signatories to the Convention. It did order Israel to prevent genocide, by stopping killing and maiming Palestinians.
I think it’s just another sign that the impunity the US/Isreal has been operating with is weakening. The imperial wests own construct ruled in favor of South Africa and Isreal is on trial for genocide. It’s definitely a win for the resistance and can only help as the struggle continues
Trolls have already started saying everywhere that what we did so far was not genocide according to court ruling!!! Why did the court use terms such as "risk of genocide" or "to prevent genocide" While we and them know that genocide has already happened and is ongoing? Not that it matters anyway because the law was back dated for Germany even though the genocide was finished a couple of years before the law came into effect (back dating a law is unheard of!). The court is bought and paid for. They are leaving loop holes in there so they can use it later to their advantage (this is what west ALWAYS does.@@justinpodur
@@justinpodur i hope you guys are saving any video, comments, etc (before removed) in a safe place to pas to SA lawyers. We need to ensure the blood of slaughtered children of Gaza are not wasted and that Israel is indicted with genocide or something above genocide if one exists. Israelis think their genocide was the only genocide or the greatest genocide. Thee world doesn't see it that way. That one was just another genocides and the one in Gaza is the newest one. He thinks the world MUST differentiate between them because? If anything, the genocide on Gaza is way worse than what Germany did. When Germany was committing genocide, there was no law to make it a crime. The law passed and It became a crime a couple of years AFTER WWII and yet, Germany was indicted! Israel is committing the genocide knowing full well it is a crime so if anything, I say this one's accountability is 100 times higher than the one Germany did! and should be punished to the highest degree possible. This is aside from humanity and morality.
Big big thanks to the new multi layered model of resistance developed by the Palestinian People A most striking component was the population of ethical public interest journalists who report what is happening in Gaza & at each citizens' marching to stop genocide We the people know we are driving the change needed to actually stop the genocide. We the people en masse fostered conditions supportive of the STH AFRICAN intervention for example..and it is just starting. WE THE PEOPLE ARE DEEPLY GRATEFUL TO THE JOURNALISTS & THE IT ACTIVISTS THAT TURN TGE JOURNALISTS' WORK INTOVWORLWIDE INFO .
The ICJ has upped the ante on each govts' responsibility to prevent genocide. We each examine our repective Govts for evidence of their "failure" to do this. Every govt that supply/supplied weapons top the list. Govt statements inciting genocide draes in a wider group of failures. Countries in say AUKUS or NATO style agreements are certainly in line
The Ugandan judge's decision has nothing to do with Afropessimism (read Frank Wilderson carefully). Uganda is one of the many faithful servants/proxies of Empire.
It’s a bit positive as we have so little , or no expectation from any international body that even this lukewarm response gave us some hope . Alhamdullilah
The ICJ president mentioned a dissenting opinion from Sebutinde. But whether or not it will be released, I am not sure. It's not on the ICJ site that I can find.
@@ja9.b73I’ve seen screenshots on Twitter. Not sure if they’re real. But there she links South Africa to Hamas and says South Africa has no right to make its claims to the ICJ.
@JescoMr Her full dissent is available online now. I can't post the link as TH-cam will delete my comment. But I found it under the Orders section of the ICJ site. It's for Case 192. It's worth the read. It's a bit wild how she comes to some of the conclusions she does. Like at one point, she says one of the reasons it can't be genocide is because the Israeli military's actions have been targeted, which is just the opposite of the reality when they've been so indiscriminate. I have no legal experience, so I can't say for sure, but her dissent seemed politically motivated.
Trolls have already started saying everywhere that what we did so far was not genocide according to court ruling!!! Why did the court use terms such as "risk of genocide" or "to prevent genocide" While we and them know that genocide has already happened and is ongoing? Not that it matters anyway because the law was back dated for Germany even though the genocide was finished a couple of years before the law came into effect (back dating a law is unheard of!). The court is bought and paid for. They are leaving loop holes in there so they can use it later to their advantage (this is what west ALWAYS does.
Don't worry about the trolls, they are ATTEMPTING to upset you!!!:The facts are obvious for us all to see! Innocents are being indiscriminately killed and homes/infrastructure destroyed, people are being starved etc. It IS a genocide because the action and words of the israel government align. God is here! Those in power know! I expect much to change!!!🕊🌍💚
International law states that armed resistance is the LEGITIMATE RIGHT of occupied peoples!
Having watched the ruling live (3am my time), what I heard was a de facto ceasefire. What I heard immediately in the media was that because the ruling didn't include the word 'ceasefire' it was meaningless. I was shocked and pleased by the ruling, and hearing the quotes from UN officials made it more powerful. I hope people watch the entire ruling rather than relying on the media's reactions.
The ICJ couldnt order a ceasefire, because it doesnt have jurisdiction over Hamas. It only has jurisdiction over States ie signatories to the Convention. It did order Israel to prevent genocide, by stopping killing and maiming Palestinians.
I think it’s just another sign that the impunity the US/Isreal has been operating with is weakening. The imperial wests own construct ruled in favor of South Africa and Isreal is on trial for genocide. It’s definitely a win for the resistance and can only help as the struggle continues
The judgement was better than I anticipated.
same
Trolls have already started saying everywhere that what we did so far was not genocide according to court ruling!!! Why did the court use terms such as "risk of genocide" or "to prevent genocide" While we and them know that genocide has already happened and is ongoing?
Not that it matters anyway because the law was back dated for Germany even though the genocide was finished a couple of years before the law came into effect (back dating a law is unheard of!).
The court is bought and paid for. They are leaving loop holes in there so they can use it later to their advantage (this is what west ALWAYS does.@@justinpodur
@@justinpodur i hope you guys are saving any video, comments, etc (before removed) in a safe place to pas to SA lawyers. We need to ensure the blood of slaughtered children of Gaza are not wasted and that Israel is indicted with genocide or something above genocide if one exists.
Israelis think their genocide was the only genocide or the greatest genocide. Thee world doesn't see it that way. That one was just another genocides and the one in Gaza is the newest one. He thinks the world MUST differentiate between them because? If anything, the genocide on Gaza is way worse than what Germany did. When Germany was committing genocide, there was no law to make it a crime. The law passed and It became a crime a couple of years AFTER WWII and yet, Germany was indicted! Israel is committing the genocide knowing full well it is a crime so if anything, I say this one's accountability is 100 times higher than the one Germany did! and should be punished to the highest degree possible.
This is aside from humanity and morality.
Never forget- the real ICJ is the Axis of Resistance!
Big big thanks to the new multi layered model of resistance developed by the Palestinian People
A most striking component was the population of ethical public interest journalists who report what is happening in Gaza & at each
citizens' marching to stop genocide
We the people know we are driving the change needed to actually stop the genocide. We the people en masse fostered conditions supportive of the STH AFRICAN intervention for example..and it is just starting.
WE THE PEOPLE ARE DEEPLY GRATEFUL TO THE JOURNALISTS
& THE IT ACTIVISTS THAT TURN TGE JOURNALISTS' WORK INTOVWORLWIDE INFO
.
The ICJ has upped the ante on each govts' responsibility to prevent genocide.
We each examine our repective Govts for evidence of their "failure" to do this. Every govt that supply/supplied weapons top the list. Govt statements inciting genocide draes in a wider group of failures.
Countries in say AUKUS or NATO style agreements are certainly in line
It was good ! I think it was well carved as to prevent the US from vetoing
Yes, I think that may have been a reason. Perhaps, also, it was a way to get out majority opinions (15-2 and 16-1) without delay?
The Ugandan judge's decision has nothing to do with Afropessimism (read Frank Wilderson carefully). Uganda is one of the many faithful servants/proxies of Empire.
Uganda judge is been disowned by Ugandan government😅. She is a awful.
You lead a fruitful conversation. Thank you!
EI and tankie therapy in one day?? I don't deserve this!!!
Great discussion guys 😂
I appreciate these chats at this madness-inducing and potentially isolating time, thank you. (And I'm not even a tankie. I'm an anarchist).
It’s a bit positive as we have so little , or no expectation from any international body that even this lukewarm response gave us some hope . Alhamdullilah
Thank you! I’m very surprised about this ruling but happy!
Maybe Sebutinde thought that "against" meant the complete opposite of what she was voting for.
Did Judge Sebutinde just vote, or did she write her dissenting opinion? If so has it been published by the court?
The ICJ president mentioned a dissenting opinion from Sebutinde. But whether or not it will be released, I am not sure. It's not on the ICJ site that I can find.
@@ja9.b73I’ve seen screenshots on Twitter. Not sure if they’re real. But there she links South Africa to Hamas and says South Africa has no right to make its claims to the ICJ.
@JescoMr Her full dissent is available online now. I can't post the link as TH-cam will delete my comment. But I found it under the Orders section of the ICJ site. It's for Case 192. It's worth the read. It's a bit wild how she comes to some of the conclusions she does. Like at one point, she says one of the reasons it can't be genocide is because the Israeli military's actions have been targeted, which is just the opposite of the reality when they've been so indiscriminate. I have no legal experience, so I can't say for sure, but her dissent seemed politically motivated.
@JescoMr Oh, I forgot to add: what you wrote in your comment checks with my memory of the full document, so the screenshots you saw are probably real.
They didn’t do this cuz they wanted to they did this cuz otherwise the Islamic world would have shit on the ICJ
thanks guys, great discussion.
I used to think that Tankie is a pejorative.
But now I see how it can be worn as a medal.
oh well. at least we know all peaceful mean have been exhausted.
❤
Trolls have already started saying everywhere that what we did so far was not genocide according to court ruling!!! Why did the court use terms such as "risk of genocide" or "to prevent genocide" While we and them know that genocide has already happened and is ongoing?
Not that it matters anyway because the law was back dated for Germany even though the genocide was finished a couple of years before the law came into effect (back dating a law is unheard of!).
The court is bought and paid for. They are leaving loop holes in there so they can use it later to their advantage (this is what west ALWAYS does.
Don't worry about the trolls, they are ATTEMPTING to upset you!!!:The facts are obvious for us all to see! Innocents are being indiscriminately killed and homes/infrastructure destroyed, people are being starved etc. It IS a genocide because the action and words of the israel government align. God is here! Those in power know! I expect much to change!!!🕊🌍💚
I think Ugandan judge voted no coz she is just happy they didn’t go to Uganda and she wants to keep them there. That’s my theory