Running Awesome D&D Combat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Mike discusses tips for running awesome D&D combat. Click "show more" for notes and links.
00:00 Intro
00:18 Run with four players.
00:57 Run lower level games. Level 3 is the sweet spot.
01:38 Use static monster damage.
02:15 Run theater of the mind combat for small battles.
03:02 Inject the story and fiction into large battles.
04:49 Draw characters in off-turn with skill checks and info.
05:36 Use abstract maps - break out of the grid.
08:04 Ask for intent.
09:13 Have alternative goals - Add a Combat Out.
11:04 Don't say "Let's Call it Right Here".
11:53 Adjusting the dials (HP, Damage, Number of Monsters, Number of Attacks).
13:11 Offer Cinematic Advantage
15:10 Randomly select targets
16:06 Make boss fights interesting
Guide to Theater of the Mind Combat:
slyflourish.com/guide_to_narr...
The Abstract Battlemap:
slyflourish.com/the_abstract_...
Replacing Flanking with Cinematic Advantage:
slyflourish.com/cinematic_adv...
Collected Experiences Running Boss Fights:
slyflourish.com/improving_bos...
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"Was Aragorn ever 5 feet away from a monster?" Love this, it's really freeing.
"I provoke an attack to use my misty escape reaction to teleport into the gnolls and then thunder step away to blow them all up." That's one hell of a dope move.
It was pretty awesome.
@@SlyFlourish Mike, in your talk about better combat, you mention using HP pools. That is all fun and great, but I don't completely understand "how to" do it?
I am running an older edition module, Night Below, and the players have reached the laircity of the aboleths. I dont want to run the combats in rounds - that would take 3-6 10hours sessions and be boring AF!
in the first combat we(read I) tried using HP pools, but I dont felt it was any faster or better.....
Do you have a video link so I can see how you did/do it irl?
I found you can have a fantastic transition by asking for initative before the game starts and after combat. Makes a seamless transitions from RP to Combat.
Great idea!
Old school. That's how 1e and 2e did it.
@@SlyFlourish :) thanks
@@TheEldarGuy no school like the old school.
I will try that on Saturdays session. I have some exploration, and likely combat.. Why not pre-roll initiatives at start of the game. You're correct al though it's fun to say roll initiative.. it does take you of of the moment.
I particularly support the ideas of declaring intent and sandwiching mechanics between story. I do both as much as I can and it really makes combat so much more fun for everyone. One thing I do is to periodically award inspiration to characters who come up with interesting or fun described actions.
Most of the time I see videos for "better combat", people focus on simply speeding it up. This video is actually about making it *better*. And I couldn't agree more: combat is one of the pillars of the game, and if you are just trying to get it over with so you can go back to having fun, DnD is probably not the best system for you.
Anyway, congrats on the great content. Excellent video!
agreed
Something that has really helped me of late with engaging combat strategy is " Preparing Battle Plans for Combat Roles, but not Characters". Decide how the monsters might deal with the Tank (meatshield), Skirmisher ( Position-Damager), Blaster ( Glass Canon/ranged), Support (Buff/heal), Controller (CC), & Specialist (Skills/Debuff). When foes can counter those roles my players seem to get creative, but their individual customization shines through as well since the battle plan wasn't designed to 'shut them down perfectly'.
Static damage really has smoothed out my table. Looking forward to using some more of these techniques in game. Thanks again Mike
"Take parts out of the mechanics to simplify it..." Amen, brother. It seems like a lot of players could benefit from an official set of quick & dirty combat rules for when players don't want to slog through the drudgerous standard combat procedure. Our permission to make it our game is right there in the rules, but a lot of players cling to the belief that doing anything not exactly by the letter of the rules is doing it wrong. The solution would be an official abstract combat rule variant. Even better if it can also handle mass battles and mook fights well.
In regards to your last point on exciting changes in Boss fights- Have you seen Matt Colville's thought on Villian Actions and Action-Orientated Monsters? I think that would help in the kind of narrative structure of a fight
I have! I got a chance to ask him about it on one of his livestreams and he gave some excellent advice:
Criteria for Action Oriented Monsters
1. They're intended for bosses who can hold their own against a group (like a legendary foe).
2. They have "villain actions" which are a lot like legendary actions except different:
1. The boss has their typical array of actions, bonus actions, and reactions but also has these boss actions. They're often spell-like abilities but aren't as complicated as spells.
2. The design is simpler than we might otherwise expect. The intent is a highly usable boss monster without an overly complicated stat block.
3. The boss actions are keyed to the rounds of a battle which are also the beats of a story. These beats follow the flow of combat which is predictable.
1. First Action: Move into position.
2. Second action: Get out of a bad position; avoid being ganged up on by the characters; change the battlefield.
3. Third action: You are about to die; make the characters regret they ever tangled with you before you do.
Hankerin' at Runehammer and PDM at Dungeon craft turned me into zones. It works perfect. Especially theatre of minds.
As DM the hardest thing I found in combat was keeping track of monster hit points and capabilities especially if they have spells. When there’s a lot of monsters/villains it’s much more work to keep track of hp & what combat skills each monster/villain has. My PCs tend not to take prisoners so it makes no sense for the bad guys to surrender (they could still run away). And the baddies should use their deadliest skills first rather than saving them for later which they may never get a chance to use if the PCs kill them
Excellent video. I love the idea of the "combat out". I've toyed with a similar idea for a while but i called it "the detonation". I'd love to see a long list of various "outs" that might work.
Regarding randomly determining targets, not chess-gaming battles, and thinking like the monsters - I recently watched your interview with Keith Ammann and then bought his book The Monsters Know What They're Doing. I'm reading it now! My hope is it will help me learn to intuitively read tactics out of stat blocks better, the way that Hamlet's Hit Points is supposed to help us intuitively create effective up and down beats at our tables.
Please interview Keith Ammann again for a post mortem on his run of The Curse of Stahd!
I think people misinterpret what Keith is showing in the book which is to look at the stat block of a monster and consider what that means about the monster in the world. It's not just about tactics. It's about getting into the head of the monster which is really useful.
On static damage: I found static damage too predictable as a player and as a DM so now when I DM I roll 4 Fate Dice (dice with two plus symbols, two minus symbols and two blanks) and add the total to the average damage. This gives a nice averaged range (of - 4 to +4) to any monster damage. My players are none then wiser and as its always the same four dice every time I can roll it with the d20 attack roll and therefore cut down massively on math time and dice rolling time. Also I can narrate the attack in one go rather than having to deliver it in chunks after the attack roll and damage rolls separately. I think its a worth a try if you can get your hands on some Fate Dice.
I think Chris Perkins mentioned he does the same thing (with a normal d4, though the fate die sounds more useful)
@@derthwen1232 Yeah, if you do average - 3 + 1d6 it works. You might also just add 1d6 and make things a little harder...
This is great! I'm going to start doing this...
This is an amazing guide. Some things I already do, many things I now will do. Love these ideas, thanks!
Completely agree that having to move tokens around slows combat, as long as the DM is adequately able to describe relevant (and relative) details spatial relations, and get players to simply describe what they want to try to do.
As a player I can tell you I hated when DMs used static monster damage. It removed a lot of the dynamism of each attack being its own unique event, and subsequently the creative descriptiveness of the results. We all began calculating how many attacks we could take before going down, and I don't understand how this response is not guaranteed. And as a DM, rolling damage takes a negligible amount of time and gives me more control over the outcome. (You yourself have suggested that damage was one of the things you might alter to keep a party alive.)
When I’ve run large battles, I run combat focused on the PCs and describe the larger battle narratively, taking into consideration anything the PCs have done to alter its course.
While I don’t put tokens on a grid, I’m not a fan of ignoring distance limitations. What I prefer, is to offer skill checks trades (like what you call Cinematic Advantage) where something like a successful Athletics check can get you that extra 5-10’ but a bad enough failure might leave you prone. It’s worth noting that these trades are not mutually exclusive with flanking. They can both be available at the same time. (Playing Theater of the Mind makes it a lot easier to not allow flanking advantage on a target when one of the allies is themselves surrounded on the far side.)
Great tips overall. Always good to have these reminders.
really good advice! I have found that by running a Dungeon World campaign I have brought a lot of these methods to my D&D game - it really pushes these narrative/statement of intent and risk reward techniques. Thanks Mike!
Yes!! Running other TTRPGs can be an excellent way to both branch out and get some great new ideas to bring back to playing D&D.
Yeah. Playing other RPGs like Dungeon World, Numenera, 13th Age, and Fate has brought a lot of new ideas to my D&D game.
Dungeon World for the win! Along with The One Ring, these two are my favorite fantasy RPGs to date (been gaming TTRPGs since 1982).
I’m really happy I watched this cause I feel like I do about 90% of this, but I learned a couple of things to make it better! Thank you for making this!
Great video. What has been helping me with adding story into battles lately was phrasing it this way "Narrate the transitions between turns." If I can finish a character or monster's turn with a cool narration of an attack or action and then link that to a quick description of what the next character up sees around them it adds a ton of excitement to the combat. Before I was describing attacks and actions and it was ok, but thinking of it as “narrating the transitions” really helped with the flow and story. I started having to think more about what the monsters are actually doing and what they look like doing it, because for every character turn I am giving a very quick description of the current characters situation.
Could you give one example of narrating the transition please?
Outstanding content in this video. Tuning the dials, cinematic encouragement, defeating the enemy at approximate half marks, etc. is all great
I have felt the same way about D&D 5e since it was released, that 3rd Level is the sweet spot. But then, I felt that 1st - 3rd level was/is also the sweet spot with D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. (I never ran 4e, and only played it briefly once.)
Enjoying you laying out some many ideas (many we are using - sometimes). Greatly appreciate you have the points to look at!
Agreed re the bullet points!
Ive been DMing with level 3 start for pretty much all of 5e. Only with new players do I start with level 1. I also borrowed a system from fantasy age for non 1 shots. At level 1 I give max hp for level 3, up front. This does a few things. It makes level 1 character's beefy. 1 lucky crit wont down any 1 character. I can go a bit harder without pulling punches especially for new player. If someone is downed they learn how much they can take a bit better. And I don't feel bad killing a character or for tpk. Not that that happens a lot.
I say use the distances and if they're 5 ft short they can make an athletics check as a bonus action to gain That 5 ft for the attack action, I know that's not totally 5e rules just something I'd do, or expend a hit die or two for the extra movement. Just thoughta
I use static damage on tabletop; on VTT (I use Roll20 currently) the dynamic damage is just as fast because the computer does the math for you.
I tried the relaxed movement in my last session, for the most part it worked great and the Players loved it.
Where it got a bit unstuck was area of effect spells, especially ones like Ice-shard where effect creatures in 5ft, it got a little bit confusing. It ended with me asking the players if they were in that radius which was fine as my players are fairly honest but it felt clunky.
Yeah, some stuff like that can be hard. Check out my theater of the mind guidelines for some options: slyflourish.com/guide_to_narrative_combat.html
This is exactly how I run my AD&D games. It DOES take a lot of practice and sync with the players. With new players, at the 1st and 2nd encounter they get confused so the DM has to be patient and rephrase the scene. Eventually, with practice the players and DM get in sync. Then battles will go smoothly. Sly, wow you can talk fast and succinctly! I cant do that lol.
Good editing!!
Using some morale rules can REALLY help to cut down time . I do this with predator type monsters, who tend to nope out when they hit about 50% hit points. This means they can hit harder than they would be otherwise, but the strategy is to beat on them to get them to run. Other monsters fight to the death, such as mindless undead or golems, and that makes them feel much more threatening... there's no breaking them (short of Turn Undead). I also don't make the creatures tactical masterminds unless the monsters SHOULD be: Hobgoblins, for instance, are tactical masterminds and they fight like they are. This helps differentiate the monsters.
Another thing to do is not have all the monsters appear at once. This lets the PCs concentrate resources on one monster and possibly break contact if they want to.
More immunities, resistances, and vulnerabilities also help. I think 5E really missed the boat on this. They give PCs a new and interesting dial to add in, giving PCs resons to carry a few different weapons, for example, or get benefits from cantrips that seem typically not so useful.
I'm also running without cyclic initiative. I really hate cyclic initiative and am using what I call "Alternate Side Initiative" (I live in NYC... you'd get it if you lived here). This seems to speed things up and make for more possible planning. It's actually pretty easy:
-PCs roll every round versus a DC set by the monsters (typically 10+Dex of best monster, with "leader" type monsters or Legendary monsters getting their proficiency bonus).
-Only one player rolls in a given round, in an order chosen by the players, using the ordinary Initiative modifier. The caveat is that once a player has rolled, that player cannot roll again until everyone else has gone (even across combats). If the PCs meet the monster's DC, they go first (and can choose to wait if they want, e.g., if the monsters are across the board). Otherwise the monsters win.
-Only PCs can roll; NPC allies, pets, etc., go in their side but do not roll initiative.
-The player who rolls declares first and goes clockwise around the table. A player can pass to the next person, going later.
-The only actions outside of your side's turn are via Reactions.
It's taken a bit of time to get used to this but I think it leads to players being more engaged and to speedier fights.
I enjoyed this partly because it gave me some good ideas (as always, ty SF!), but also because it reinforces things that I'm already doing that I might be a little uncertain about because "not everyone does it this way!" It's not just useful but it boosts my confidence, and that's a real help, so thank you.
Very interesting tips ! thank you (I already simplify some things but you offered new options !) Great video
Brilliant tips! Thanks for sharing. Rule of Cool is SO important - great to see you championing it.
So much great advice! Thank you.
Awesome video, thank you Mike!
Totally with you on the joy of the story vs the table top mini battle game. Theatre of the mind offers a far better/flexible and rewarding environment
I disagree. Yes if your using theater of the mind vs some minis on a plain hex battle map sure . But making a boss room or using scattered terrain helps spark creativity when people can see the obstacles on the battle field .
Good collection of tips! Great stuff, as usual.
Thank you!
I really enjoy having 5 players in my game. I agree with 3rd level! It's also a good starting point for newer players not to get overwhelmed
I still like starting at 1st level but they get to 2nd and 3rd level pretty quickly.
@@SlyFlourish Do you play an equivalent of Epic6 in 5e? I've tried it with a L5 cap (so they get access to L3 spells) and it worked OK as long as you've got a group that enjoys the storytelling aspect and aren't on a power trip to the higher tiers. Magic items then play more of a part than they would normally in 5e to add the extra capabilities in when you want the PCs to have them - which keeps things interesting for the players, but under a measure of control.
Great video! Learned a lot.
i find it difficult to DM and i think i’m better off as a player, but damn these vids are inspiring me to try DMing again
Do it!
Great video - thanks Mike!
Glad you liked it!
also, with regards different movement rates, I have found it more useful in other areas - such as chases and narrative wilderness travel - the dwarves not keeping up with the others when a surprise encounter starts, for example
Really helpful advice as usual sir!
Thank you!
This is excellent!
My campaign turned into "The Four Winds" by accident. It was meant to be a oneshot, but the four players accidentally created a thematic party. So imagine my surprise when I start watching this video...
Love this video
This is just great
Cinematic Advantage: Where do you draw the line on ability tests in combat though? At what point should that test use the character's action?
Depending on their intent, you would probably use their movement or action for the skill check. In the ogre example, going for the jump off the rock would take up the PC's movement (in my opinion).
If its just to give advantage on an attack, I don't think it should take an action.
Thx for the cool ideas. I like being flexible. Dont want to ruin the fun
Hi sly , you said in this video “don’t make the check character-specific “ but I don’t understand why , if the rogue is really good at acrobatics shouldn’t it be easier for him ? Great video by the way thank you very much
Don't make the DC specific to the character. That's what their bonus is for. A DC 12 rock climb is DC 12 no matter who is making it.
@@SlyFlourish ah yes understandable , thanks man , great stuff and great books ,looking forward for your next one !
If you're going to change the dials during combat, have a good reason.
I.E. the orc smash a ritual rock against their heads and now they seem way more resilient (increase hp).
Messing with stats with no reason is a bad idea.
Some dials need a good in-world reason like an ogre setting their club on fire. Others, like hit points, can be tweaked behind the screen (both directions), to keep the pacing and energy of the battle at a good level.
@@SlyFlourish We agree on many points. This particular one we diverge.
Experienced players will catch on. They won't say anything most of the time but it affects the fun.
Take a poll about DMs fudging dice and stats mid combat.
You and I like to collect data this way. You'll see there is a large contingency of players that are not for it.
Of course there is not right or wrong way to play. Just personal preferences.
@@edathompson2 yeah. My table is not ok without some narrative justification. I may not have the HP/AC set at the beginning of combat, but once it's set it's set unless something happens. Some tables won't care, but mine definitely does.
I'm all for twisting dials narratively, but my table would flip if they discovered I was messing with hitpoints after I set them without a narrative explanation. That would be a major breach of trust for them.
Sly, what are you using to show your outline on the left? Is that Word with some styling thrown in?
Notion.so. more here: slyflourish.com/lazy_dnd_with_notion.html
@@SlyFlourish This is exactly what I've been looking for! Thank you!
I tried using static damage for monsters but my players didn't like that. They asked me to roll damage for the monsters.
I freaking love low level D&D.
9:15 - What if the character is Mcbain, and he wants to kill every henchman before targeting Mendoza?
Mike, in your talk about better combat, you mention using HP pools. That is all fun and great, but I don't completely understand "how to" do it?
I am running an older edition module, Night Below, and the players have reached the laircity of the aboleths. I dont want to run the combats in rounds - that would take 3-6 10hours sessions and be boring AF!
in the first combat we(read I) tried using HP pools, but I dont felt it was any faster or better.....
Do you have a video link so I can see how you did/do it irl?
Easy way to signal a difficulty adjustment:
If you want to make it easier, then have their next attack cause a debilitating wound to the target and terrify the rest of their forces.
If you want to make it harder have the next attack enrage the antagonist and have them inspire their forces.
One issue with 5e DnD is that it isn't really built for Theatre of the Mind, with its fiddly movement ranges. I think that games that use descriptive language for distance work better in the sense that movement abilities are designed around those descriptive terms, and if you really want to use a battlemap, you easily can. Most of these games will tell you how many feet away something is before it stops being 'close'
I love zone systems in other games...but I find adjudicating AOE effects in DND if I'm doing zones FEELS bad.
The only problem I see with ignoring 5' distances is some characters and classes gain extra movement from feats, a class feature (bonus action move to dash), etc. So by allowing the paladin to just dash for free then should the rogue be able to do a divine smite for free? I am not an expert DM and I like 5E. The issue is making a change in 5E to a rule can seem very minor but actually has significant implications if said change mimics a feature that one would have to gain a few levels in a class or a feat to obtain but X rule is just given to a PC for free for the sake of player convenience or story.
I talk about some of these concerns here: slyflourish.com/guide_to_narrative_combat.html
STATIC DAMAGE
I like the simplicity but the tradeoff is of course no variability.
What I do is use the static dmg as a reference and then scale it up or down commensurate to how much the attack roll beat the AC.
If for instance you beat the AC by 9 or more I'll do Max damage.
If I beat the on the nose - minimum damage. Beating the AC by 3-5 or so is the "static" damage listed.
A critical roll is 2x the Static Damage.
FOR INSTANCE: 1d10+4 dmg output = 5-14 dmg. Static is 9. If I just hit the AC, ill assign 5, If I beat the AC by 9, it's 14 dmg, and slide that scale up or down based on how good the attack roll was. A Nat-20 (critical) would do 18.
Another thing you can do is let the player roll the damage. that way the DM can say - Oh - AC 18! I hit - d8+4, then turn to the next player in initiative - so you're keeping thing moving along.
14:02 Don't do this for easy things. A "0/10" difficulty activity becomes DC10, as in something that the average person would fail at half of the time.
If it's that easy, don't bother to roll at all.
Round 1..... FIGHT!!!
I think the title is a little misleading. This is all good advice for running NARATIVE style combat, only some for ANY style. I, for instance, like combat to be strategic and rich in problem solving and tough choices. Some of this advice would make MY combat less awesome. I love the content though, keep it up.
My thoughts and advice aren't intended to be universally useful. I definitely have opinions =)
Eh, you're right - the resolution of 5 feet increments isn't important / relevant to the story. But my response wouldn't be to ignore it if I'm on a grid. Because it is relevant to the game and many creatures and PCs have varied movement rates, so why ignore it rather than, like, having the PC wait an additional turn and not fixate on it? It's not the end of the world and hardly breaks pacing.
Yeah, I can remember a battle where a boss was one square out of reach, so I had to choose between spending a turn getting to them or attacking a minion instead. And if I would have had the foresight the turn before I could have positioned myself better and would have been able to get to the boss and attack this turn. To me that is an interesting narrative beat that I would not want to sacrifice by fudging the distance.
Maybe I'm just that guy you don't wanna play with cause I can't begin to imagine not fixating on the damage if I heard the same number twice 😂
Disagree with some of these, 5 or 6 is best when you have experienced DM and players. 3rd to 6th level is a sweet spot but up to 12th is fun again with experienced players and DM. Not a fan of static damage a good roll can create drama, there is a 'narrative speed' the game session runs at, the question is, is the combat significant? Even an insignificant combat can be to use up resources or can be used to focus your players. Agree with the skill checks, one of the things I have done is 'relational' skill checks, one pc notices something of significance to another pc, this gives the character additional options in a 'story' way. Another way to flesh this out is to notice a narrative to the other side, e.g. one enemy is protecting another for some reason, how do the pcs exploit this? This has ended encounters with diplomacy.
I will give an exception for ending combat early by saying "You guys are obviously going to win." In my first game, we were supposed to face an epic boss battle. Instead, the wizard cast Create Pit, I (the barbarian) shoved him into the pit, and the wizard then cast Grease on the pit so he couldn't climb out. Our DM paused, then said, "You know what? I'm just going to assume you guys shoot arrows down the hole until he dies. Congratulations on beating the boss." It was a GREAT feeling.
disagree on the sweetspot. 5-10 is the sweet spot
"Don't change the difficulty based on the character."
I'm gonna disagree on this one, sort of, but going in the opposite direction from what is implied. The difference between "pretty good" and "extremely good" is usually fairly small in D&D, and that's generally a good thing for the mechanics and math of the game, but in terms of doing cool things I would let the guy who is "extremely good" at something get away with a lot more bullshit.
Mechanically 20 strength is not that much stronger than 15 strength. Fluff wise, it's halfway between a strong man and an adult blue dragon! More powerful than a werebear, almost as strong as a hill giant!
Really high stats only gives you slightly bigger numbers, but as far as what you can fundamentally _do,_ I think it should open up a lot of doors.
Mmmm... sandwich mechanics... *drools*
Just play Forbidden Lands lol
But static damage means less dice rolling 😭