I'm glad you liked it. I have often wondered how a flyball governor would respond to changes in the load of a steam engine, so carrying out the experiment was quite interesting for me as well.
@@RetroTechyNerdyStuff I taught it was pressure differense at first caused by the cavity until i realized that now when You did setup this demonstration which showed this outcome.
@@sheep1ewe Yes, the pressure reaching the engine is regulated by the flyball governor and depends on the engine's speed. One interesting thing that I wasn't able to show in the video is this: the engine keeps almost the same speed regardless of the pressure setting on my compressor; the governor simply closes the valve to limit the engine's speed. Also, if I lower the pressure on the compressor, the governor opens the valve to try to maintain the engine's speed. This is equally impressive because it meant that a a steam engine could be kept running at almost the same speed even if the boiler pressure changed significantly.
@@RetroTechyNerdyStuff Interesting! I hawe read about the theory about them before, but non of my models has a funtional one, they all seem to be mockups that looks like one but does not hawe the valve part. By the way, I hawe seen pictures of old car engines which had a silimar regulator in the sprakplug distribution regulator. I also remember long time ago whan i was an aprentice on an old blacksmith factory here they where cleaning out the cellar storage from some old stuff and among it there was some type of very old style hydraulic regulator from an old watermill, i asked if i could take it home (which almost brooke the springs on my fathers car... ha ha) it looked like a hydraulic lever with a small and a bigger piston inside and an incoming axel connected to a centrifugal regulator on the top which controlled the small piston, the large piston had a lever out which i assume was for controlling the intake of the turbine. (i later sold it to a guy who was building a watermill on he's farm so i don't hawe it anymore but i had not seen those before)
I got this with my Retrol Beam Engine, but I adjusted the governor, to allow the engine to run at a steady speed, to keep a good head of steam in the boiler. The valve the flyballs operate has some adjustments on my flyball governor.
This type of control is called proportional control. One of the problems with this type of control is that the steam engine will run at different speeds for different loads. IE for a large load, the steam valve must be way open, while for small load, it will be almost closed. The only way to attain this if for the fly weights to be in different positions. The only way they can be in different positions is to be at different speeds. Modern control systems use proportional integral and derivative control(PID). I have never seen a fully mechanical way of doing PID control. Is anyone here aware of any?
Full mechanical PID control does not seem like an easy thing to do since it will require some sort of memory to be built into the controller. Wikipedia does show an example of a PID controller implemented with pneumatics where each of the PID terms are adjusted with dials.
@@RetroTechyNerdyStuff Yes. Pneumatic and hydraulic controllers are available. I kinda have an idea how to build a mechanical PI control, but the D eludes me.
very useful info as i want to build one for my steam engine.Puts a smile on my face to see fischertechnik used.I use fischertechnik a lot for prototyping mechanical stuff. Thanks for the video.
I'm glad you found the material useful. I did the experiment because I was curious about what would happen, and I'm glad you found the results interesting. I also enjoy using Fischertechnic. For prototyping Fischertechnic has almost replaced Lego Technic because it's so easy to work with. I still own and use Lego Technic, but for other duties.
Not a bad guess; the rubber band's elasticity doesn't help, but I've made a similar experiment with another steam engine where I could connect the regulator directly to the main shaft with a universal joint, and it is still possible to induce oscillations in that case.
Finally a video that explains it while in action, thx
This was a pretty cool experiment. Thank You for uploading the videos!
I'm glad you liked it. I have often wondered how a flyball governor would respond to changes in the load of a steam engine, so carrying out the experiment was quite interesting for me as well.
@@RetroTechyNerdyStuff I taught it was pressure differense at first caused by the cavity until i realized that now when You did setup this demonstration which showed this outcome.
@@sheep1ewe Yes, the pressure reaching the engine is regulated by the flyball governor and depends on the engine's speed. One interesting thing that I wasn't able to show in the video is this: the engine keeps almost the same speed regardless of the pressure setting on my compressor; the governor simply closes the valve to limit the engine's speed. Also, if I lower the pressure on the compressor, the governor opens the valve to try to maintain the engine's speed. This is equally impressive because it meant that a a steam engine could be kept running at almost the same speed even if the boiler pressure changed significantly.
@@RetroTechyNerdyStuff Interesting! I hawe read about the theory about them before, but non of my models has a funtional one, they all seem to be mockups that looks like one but does not hawe the valve part.
By the way, I hawe seen pictures of old car engines which had a silimar regulator in the sprakplug distribution regulator.
I also remember long time ago whan i was an aprentice on an old blacksmith factory here they where cleaning out the cellar storage from some old stuff and among it there was some type of very old style hydraulic regulator from an old watermill, i asked if i could take it home (which almost brooke the springs on my fathers car... ha ha) it looked like a hydraulic lever with a small and a bigger piston inside and an incoming axel connected to a centrifugal regulator on the top which controlled the small piston, the large piston had a lever out which i assume was for controlling the intake of the turbine. (i later sold it to a guy who was building a watermill on he's farm so i don't hawe it anymore but i had not seen those before)
I got this with my Retrol Beam Engine, but I adjusted the governor, to allow the engine to run at a steady speed, to keep a good head of steam in the boiler. The valve the flyballs operate has some adjustments on my flyball governor.
Adding a bit of friction to the ball mechanism should help to alleviate this. We see this type of oscillation with a governed lawnmower.
This type of control is called proportional control. One of the problems with this type of control is that the steam engine will run at different speeds for different loads. IE for a large load, the steam valve must be way open, while for small load, it will be almost closed. The only way to attain this if for the fly weights to be in different positions. The only way they can be in different positions is to be at different speeds. Modern control systems use proportional integral and derivative control(PID). I have never seen a fully mechanical way of doing PID control. Is anyone here aware of any?
Full mechanical PID control does not seem like an easy thing to do since it will require some sort of memory to be built into the controller. Wikipedia does show an example of a PID controller implemented with pneumatics where each of the PID terms are adjusted with dials.
@@RetroTechyNerdyStuff Yes. Pneumatic and hydraulic controllers are available. I kinda have an idea how to build a mechanical PI control, but the D eludes me.
need an isochronic governor with a speed droop leaver
very useful info as i want to build one for my steam engine.Puts a smile on my face to see fischertechnik used.I use fischertechnik a lot for prototyping mechanical stuff.
Thanks for the video.
I'm glad you found the material useful. I did the experiment because I was curious about what would happen, and I'm glad you found the results interesting. I also enjoy using Fischertechnic. For prototyping Fischertechnic has almost replaced Lego Technic because it's so easy to work with. I still own and use Lego Technic, but for other duties.
This was minimized by Woodward through feedbacks and dampening.
Interesting; I wasn't aware of that aspect. Thanks for sharing.
Elasticity in the drive band ?
Not a bad guess; the rubber band's elasticity doesn't help, but I've made a similar experiment with another steam engine where I could connect the regulator directly to the main shaft with a universal joint, and it is still possible to induce oscillations in that case.
Called speed droop.