Going Over An ABA Therapy Session and Analyzing It, As An Autistic Person, From My Perspective.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2023
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As someone who is autistic and a behavioral therapist. I have no hate towards you. But you are having the wrong idea of ABA as someone who had to be trained to under how ABA works and who has autism what you are saying is not true. Yes I do agree with you this dad should of never video tape that is not ok and I do not agree. But with these children we are trying to help them understand how to communicate. I had children who who can not talk and teach them how to communicate and ran programs to show and help the communication. In that video showing her break the cards to communicate to show can have a break. Another huge part of ABA is children understand accept no to activies, toys, and denied access. With this girl showing can communicate with break, but you have to put your clothes away. If she did not learn to accept no she can have dangerous maladaptive behaviors. I personally had dangerous maladaptive behaviors for my own safety and had to learn in a safe way to communicate and to accept no. I also wanted to say I do agree with you too should of never talked to her in front of her like that. That is also unacceptable. If you have more information or questions. Comment on my page. I hope this was helpful.
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There’s transphobic ads coming up on your videos, if you would be interested in not having those “council of geeks” did a video showing you how to avoid having them on your videos. I know there’s a lot of the trans community here as well, so I was just spreading the word. 😊 thank you for your consideration. 😊
I have a recently diagnosed toddler and I'm really seeing a lot of autistic traits in myself. I was never fully diagnosed as a woman born in the early 90's, but i had a lot of extra help in school and noticed a great deal of sensory issues. You're videos are super helpful for me
I never thought about the vacuum and how headphones might help her. That is helpful information
The distinction that makes it wrong in general is that ABA’s main purpose is making life easier for the caretaker not the autistic child. We don’t need to be forced to be your house pet. If you can’t handle happy stimming definitely it was a wrong choice to have kids. I suggest hamsters.
We need to be taught how to make life work for us. Less transitions, more routines. Less controlled more autonomy. Ability to follow our curiosity instead of be forced to learn shit we don’t care about. It’s not hard it’s just not what the parent wants. This is ab*se.
Parent of an autistic non-verbal boy and YES I agree with you 100%!!
Overall when parents think a child is moldable and should be exactly what the parents wants it will cause manipulation and ab*se. Unfortunately disabled children with those kinds of parents can be harmed the worst by this neglectful and ab*sive type of parenting.
Facts
I had exactly the same thought. This is the same training you use on a dog.
Exactly. They're trying to turn her into a neurotypical person. Rather than let fish swim, they want to for them to climb trees.
They want her to ‘communicate’ more, but also ignore her when she communicates, letting her know it means nothing to even try???
They only want her to communicate on their terms. They don't see her as a full person, clearly.
Exactly, to me that is so frustrating and confusing. it gives me an emotion jam where I feel this overwhelming indescribable emotion where it turns into this jam in my movements and it feels like my movement keeps getting stuck cuz I can’t find a way to regulate
@@RisaPlaysthat's so sad she is more of a person than her parents any day.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
@@glutenfreemuffincake4267I know what you mean buddy.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
Yup! She literally says no! This is so sad 😭
We need to just start calling ABA by what it is: Obedience Training. We have to stop giving it the polite recognition as even a POOR therapy. It is not therapy. At best, it is dog training. At worst, it is torture. Torture is already illegal in many places, so why is this torture not illegal? And, in the United States, it needs to be removed from the list of things that health insurance will pay for.
I train dogs and I wouldn’t trust an ABA therapist to touch my dog even if I just needed them to watch them for a minute. I use scientifically proven methods and they give more autonomy than ABA.
Unfortunately multiple forms of torture are legal and regularly practiced in the U.S. especially for use on marginalized groups. You see that conversion "therapy" is legal. Putting incarcerated folks in windowless rooms for extended periods of time with no socialization is also legal.
Definitely wouldn't treat any living thing like this 😢
I saw a dog trainer writing an article about how ABA is not even dog training. In dog training they respect what a dog is, what they do, and what dogs need, but in ABA they don't respect autistic people and what we need. In dog training they dog train the "dog behavior" out of the dog, but in ABA they try to train the autism away from an autistic person. That is not even dog training, that is just being manipulative.
Unfortunately, the "higher-ups" (researchers, scientists, American Psychology Association/APA, mental health therapists, etc) have decided that ABA therapy is an evidence-based treatment modality. I highly question the research that shows this is evidence-based as it can be abusive and controlling in practice. I also question how the scientists who decided this was an evidence-based therapy calculated results and what variables they were observing and controlling. For instance, if the researchers were looking at the variable of behavioral outcome in the form of obedience, then I could see why this was "approved". However, if the researchers had actually asked the Autistic individuals who participated what it was like, if they felt like they were supported, how this therapy could be different, etc. I think it probably wouldn't have been "approved" as evidence-based because MOST of the negative comments made about this "therapy" come from Neurodivergent individuals. Which makes me think that the people controlling whether or not this is an evidence-based practice, didn't take into account what the "treatment" felt like or if it actually helped the Autistic individual to live successfully. The problem is that there aren't a lot of Autistic mental health practitioners/people open about it because of stigma, etc. and with that, that means that decisions are made FOR us and not WITH us. I am a Neurodivergent mental health practitioner, but it is hard because we're taught not to bring ourselves in the room as providers. "Make it about the client". So it can be hard to show it to people as well as being nervous to tell coworkers due to the stigma. I don't want to lose my job because someone is discriminatory, but I also want to stand up with the community I'm a part of to support the people including myself. I wouldn't want to be treated like people are treated in ABA so we really shouldn't be encouraging and supporting ABA.
Also, for the person that said conversion therapy is legal...it's actually becoming ILLEGAL in many states because it IS abusive and the law just needed time to "catch-up" to the "therapy" that people think of. For instance, Minnesota just passed a bill last year or so that made conversion therapy illegal in the whole state. Part of why this hasn't been illegal the whole time is it's often disguised as a religious or spiritual practice or therapy. So it can be difficult to prove in a court of law without a reasonable doubt that the treatment received at this type of facility was in fact abusive (it of course is, but it often has to be proven). Also, conversion therapy was NEVER an approved evidence-based therapy methodology by the APA or other mental health authority. So, it was really just difficult because it was kind of hush hush, but it also was under the guise of religious or spiritual practices which is protected under the First amendment typically, unless something like abuse or maltreatment is proved. All of this just takes time, but I think we are seeing some work being done to make conversion therapy illegal. It's all about what can be proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt AND part of this is it was never evidence-based to begin with.
Abigail is being aggressively taught that she can't say no to anything. All she's allowed to do is postpone fulfilling demands, and even that is limited. What happens if someone in her life makes inappropriate "adult" demands? I cannot imagine anyone with good intentions ever deliberately training a kid that they have no autonomy. I also find it difficult to believe that this obvious flaw in their parenting has never occurred to her parents, which suggests they know this is a potential outcome but are willing to risk it to get a few household chores done. It's unfathomable.
That is absolutely the risk. I was never in ABA but the way I was treated growing up was similar in terms of a "compliance" approach. Guess how many times I have been sexually assaulted? Only in my early 30s did I realize what was happening. This kind of therapy needs to stop.
I might have ADD. It was often talked about as a child, but idk if they officially diagnosed me. And I have no contact to any of my family, so I can't ask. I was "trained" as a child as well that I need to comply and be very obedient and that I can't say no. We had tasks and a calender where every day we would go through all of my behaviour good and bad and I would get a sun if everything was perfect and a cloud if I made a mistake. Not reacting promptly to anything was a mistake as well.... They thought about training me with a clicker like an animal.
I was r@ped at 18. I told my ex to stop, but he likes "to finish". I was so beaten down from my childhood, that I just accepted that my no didn't matter. It never mattered before what I wanted. I stayed in that relationship for over 2 years and it screwed up my life pretty badly.
So yes you are completly right with that. 36% of women with AD(H)D were s3xually abus3d under 18 years old. I don't know the numbers for autism though.
That's how I ended up assaulted as a kid. I was never allowed to say no to anyone. Ever.
@@mirroreclipsed3954 I'm so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing so any parents in this comments section can be aware of the dangers.
ABA systemically teaches autistic people that their opinions about themselves, their actions, and their autonomy do not matter. It teaches us that we cannot refuse requests of others, especially our "elders".
A quick look to Google scholar shows almost no data regarding autism and sexual victimhood. The only data I saw was from 2005, in it 16% of PARENTS of autistic children reported that their autistic child had been sexually abused. I can personally guarantee you that number is undercounting the problem. My parents would not be able to correctly fill out that survey.
The shocking thing is, Abigale helps to pay for that huge house and the family holidays, by her being used for TH-cam.
And I'm sure they don't put anything aside for her.
Hadn't even thought of that but yea they're essentially monetarily incentivesed to continue hurting her because if she gets to a point of independence they can't continue "riding her coat-tail"
So gross
She does the housework, and her life is broadcasted to make them money. Her life is awful. I feel so mad for her.
Im sure they don’t even get her consent to film her, hiding behind the wall like that
@EmilyandSammm My parents used me to be a domestic servant for so many years. Now I hate cleaning the house. Especially vacuuming. I had to have a house spotless by 5pm after school everday. Every chore you could possibly think of. I am so resentful of their treatment. They were exceedingly cold and cruel.
I burst into tears at the clip at 36:30. I didn't go through ABA but my family constantly demanded compliance with no accommodation or attempt at understanding my distress. I'm so disgusted that this father not only filmed his child when she's clearly upset, but that he went on and on about how inconvenient her distress is for him IN FRONT OF HER. If someone spoke about my overwhelm in front of me like that I would absolutely, justifiably, lose it. Not only does she have to constantly comply and suppress her autism to make these inconsiderate people comfortable but if she, honestly mildly, expresses distress she then gets to hear her parents chuckle and her father go on a demeaning and condescending rant. If you wouldn't treat a "normal" adult that way don't treat autistic children that way. Be a decent human ffs.
YES! That part made me SO angry!
This part made me so sick. He did not need to talk so horribly about her when she clearly needed support in that moment. I think that's emotional abuse tbh
Same absolutely same
My family probably didnt know about ABA, nor that im autistic, but they did this to me when i was a little kid and it fucked me up so hard. Trauma, its litereally trauma, its abuse. I spent most my adult life going to therapy trying to fix what this has done to me. Seeing this also makes me tear up because i just empathize so much and wonder how much better of a life she could have if she was taken from this abusive home.
When i was 18 i moved away from home to get a good education, and up to that point i thought i had loving caring parents. And when i moved away i never missed them a single day, never wanted to see them again. And later in therapy i realized why. Because they were neither loving nor caring. Its just freaking abuse, no matter if your child is NT or ND, you re not being a parent if your needs stand above the needs of your child.
It reminds me of those studies where they would film babies and children who were neglected vs those coming from an healthy environment. You see so many "typically autistic" behaviours in those children who were neglected. i feel like a lot of those "unwanted" behaviours are caused by neglected when needs arent met.
And im also furious about the beginning of the video with the breaks. They want to teach her to communicate but then also teach her that communicating her needs is pointless, because they will do what they want. If she were to communicate she needs a break, they dont give her a break, and then she has a meltdown. Then whats the point of communicating with people.
unfortunately, many fathers do this, my father was the same way and also made fun of me whenever I cried because he was being mean. I still have trauma from this though I am trying as an adult now to get over the damage but being around other people when things get heated is still a hard place for me to express myself and my distaste over a situation that's uncomfortable to me. I go mute and say nothing while I am demeaned but fortunately, for the most part, these types of individuals don't last that long around me.
That part made me so mad! Like, 1) she's not doing ANYTHING to you and 2) she frustrated and overstimulated. She NEEDS to stim in order for her to get that energy out. The dad making a big deal about how hard it is for him makes me think that he knows NOTHING about Autism and shouldn't be posting ANY of this on the internet for everyone to see. I used to watch their content when I was first diagnosed and for travelling issues myself but it always felt like they were speaking to her so mean. Like, you don't speak to ANY of your other kids like that, but you speak to your child with a disability like that?! It makes no sense. They constantly talk down to her and treat her like a child. They infantilize her and I think that's why I just stopped watching. I'm a late diagnosed Autistic AFAB adult and I want to be spoken to with respect so why wouldn't Abigail? They've effectively treated her like a dog and it's disgusting. I wouldn't even treat my dog like that (I don't even have a dog yet).
I was sad for Abby this whole time. She should be taught that it's okay to say "no." She should also be given WAY more accommodations and not have them taken away
they treat it as if her saying no is her being disobident/bad. it's such a toxic way of raising a child - autistic or not. any ability she has to advocate, they've taken away. any time she tries to communicate, they speak over her. they treat her as if she can't communicate, while ignoring her communicating in her own way. i'm an autistic adult. if something makes me uncomfortable i can say no or stop. but abby can't do that, they treat it as if her doing so is some sort of offense. i don't understand it.
@promisemochi exactly. I could see her say "no, I don't want to do this" everytime she was shaking her head and groaning
> She should be taught that it's okay to say "no."
Agreed. Just... not in the same way she's being taught that it's okay to take breaks.
It's sad they don't realize how this is grooming her for abuse. If they're gone down the road and she's in a home she'll be at risk of abuse because they undermine her no all the time.
This is why a lot of us are ab*sed, we're taught not to say no and be compliant
51 year old, newly diagnosed, long-traumatized, autistic woman here.
Thank you Paige. Don’t apologize for your visceral reaction showing through every bit as much as your logic. I find it very validating! My intuitions (and common sense) were the same as and it’s nice to not to be gaslit about it.
I know she’s much older now, but my instinct was to RESCUE her. It’s surreal to watch them not see her.
hey fellow Xer! Im 47, still undiagnosed. This whole thing is sick. I loathe nothing more than controlling parents. No one is smart or competent enough to control their kids like that, isolating them, and it's entirely unnecessary. life is NOT that difficult. even for us NDs..it's fascist.
Yes yes yes I'm having triggering muscle things that are turning into problems watching hurtful things
Go rescue her nobody is holding you back
Reality TV is a weird space. i dont think most people would know where to start although Id suggest writing letters of complaint or contacting authorities about the show.. @@ardaoguzhan8181
@@ardaoguzhan8181Fuck, get over yourself.
the irony is if they stopped putting all of these demands on her, she would be able to calm down and actually be able to do things. years of this therapy has likely made her symptoms worse:/
yess!! when i became an adult and realized "huh, i CAN stim!" suddenly much fewer meltodwns, surprise surprise lol
I have absolutely no proof for this, but the thought has crossed my mind before that Abby may not even be non-verbal, but rather semi-verbal and in a constant state of trauma that prevents her from speaking.
@@fariahcriss5696 It's called selective mutism
@@carterswafford2222 I consciously choose not to use that term because it implies there's a conscious choice being made when that is absolutely not the case
@@carterswafford2222 Selective mutism is its own diagnosis. What this user described may or may not be selective mutism. Autism can cause periods of being unable to speak that are different from selective mutism. Autism and selective mutism can coexist, though.
Paige gives more realistic autistic education in this video than most videos on the internet
Combined
@@kikiy1712 I agree with you on that buddy.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
This 👆 I feel like I just learned so many ways to not treat myself from her analysis of what's going on here...
@@sadie7712 me too I feel so sorry for her to have a family like that.😭🌈🏳️🌈
As someone who’s trained sport and working dogs for about 10 years now, I’m seeing a lot of comparisons of ABA to dog training and I just need to say that I nor my trusted trainers/good trainers wouldn’t even “train” dogs like this… I’m specifically referring to service and therapy dog training which has been my focus for the last 4 years or so. You know what we do with our dogs that apparently they don’t do in ABA? We listen to the dog and try to figure out the core reason for the response or behavior and clearly communicate and teach the dog how to behave differently in a way that is comfortable for them. Each day when training a service dog is adjusted to the individual dog on that specific day. So, it’s Tuesday, and my dog is acting more averse to the sound of traffic than he usually is and so is often focusing on the passing cars more than he is on me. Do I then just get frustrated and repeatedly and unsuccessfully try to force the dog to behave in the way I expect him to? NO! I take a step back, reflect on what he is distracted by (cars), think about what I want to focus on in this situation that would be most productive (I can either meet him where he’s at and just work on confidence and focus around cars by adding distance between us and the road or lessening the intensity of the behaviors I’m asking of him or something along those lines. And if that doesn’t work, I don’t push it and we change location back inside and work on something else. We’ll go back outside somewhere less busy or when there’s less cars). At least if I do this then I’m not risking ruining the dogs current progress by getting sloppy or having something go wrong and we’re still able to work on necessary skills. Additionally, I utilize a lot of free shaping of offered behaviors instead of purely relying on rigid training sessions. This gets the dog to want to offer behaviors as well as making work more fun and seen more as a free choice rather than a forced activity. (I still use structured sessions but they are flexible in frequency and duration and often, like stated earlier, are driven at least partially by the dogs progress and capabilities). Instead of forcing steps forward, we listen to the dog, take a step back, and take a different path entirely that ultimately is still moving in a forward direction. A lot of dog trainers who work with companion animals and “problem dogs” don’t do this and instead also try to force the dog to behave a specific way but I’m continually astonished that people do the same thing to disabled humans. It’s disgusting. No matter how much you try to word salad your way around it and claim this isn’t using punishment, it’s punishment. There are no accommodations, no thoughts into how the autistic person is feeling, you are ultimately forcing a behavior and failing to offer support or really any education let alone “therapy” that allows the autistic person any freedom or way to stand up for themselves.
Yep has a lot of its basis on pavlovian conditioning and straight out reward and punishment with the rewards usually being food. So the comparison to dog training is really accurate. As you said the good/ethical trainers don't even use that training method any more.
Thank you! I've seen many comparisons and I always want to say this, but I'm just an ordinary dog owner. Modern dog training is kind and empathetic to the dog and about establishing communication! You listen to the dog and maybe they can't do something right now because they need to runnnnnnn and you try again tomorrow!
This is partly why I disagree with ABA as an evidence-based "therapy" for ASD. It's based on knowledge of mental health and ASD that is sooooo old!! We know that these "therapies" don't actually work/don't support the person and instead teach how others want you to behave instead of learning how the world works and existing within it. I'm a neurodiverse mental health practitioner and it confuses me how it was "approved" as an evidence-based treatment modality when sooo many Autistic individuals who have been through it say it's abusive and maltreatment.
Glad to see another good trainer here. They make their own job harder by forming negative associations with every single task they force her into. No part of what they're doing is therapy OR training
It's so important with service dogs to honor the dog's feelings and encourage independence because the dog needs to trust the handler in order to safely work in public spaces and one of the most useful SD tasks is alerting which requires intelligent disobedience.
"she's not being defiant, she's just smarter than you" XD brilliant lol I wish someone had been able to say that about me to my parents growing up. So many things didn't make sense to me or my "demand avoidance" drive for autonomy kicked in and I just couldn't.
The tablet removal infuriates me. My son uses a tablet, and towards the end of the school year it was coming home almost out of batteries (it usually takes a week+ of using it to talk for it to run out), and no longer locked on "guided access." I didn't know why. Then one Friday it came out on the main menu, and when I went to put it on the speech program my son's personalized profile was gone. I flipped. My husband was able to recover the profile, minus a few personalized buttons, and when I asked him to show me the last used programs, it was TH-cam on Blue's Clues! I lost it, many angry emails were sent and voice mails left. To this day I do not know if they were putting it on TH-cam for my son to watch, which is weird because he's 8 and never watched that show ever, or if they were talking it from him and giving it to another kid in the class. Neither is acceptable! My contact at special ed was just as pissed off as I was, and it hasn't happened since. It is his VOICE, only his voice and them using it for other things was why he regressed with using it. I told them point blank that this was abusive, that they were silencing him.
I would never, EVER take it away from him!
I’m so sorry that happened to your son😕 his things shouldn’t be messed with PERIOD.
thank you so much for advocating for him!! growing up, we had shared classes with the special ed classes and what is aw was enough to make my skin crawl at age 11. other kids could be cruel but some of the "aids" were worse. but no one seemed to bat an eye. thank you for keeping on the ball with this stuff and just staying vigilant.
I'm a behaviorist, and I agree with you. Never take away one's mode of communication. I'm sorry that happened to you and your son.
@@bunnybaker2289 me too buddy I hope you and your son are doing well today.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
@@hollie7094 me too buddy I hope everyone is doing well today.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
We have been pressured to start ABA with our (recently diagnosed ASD) 6 yo daughter and continually refuse. She doesn’t respond to prompt based “learning” & most therapists seem to use the same methods, and don’t take my daughter’ feelings into consideration-it’s about comply, comply ,comply..We found a therapist that uses DIR floortime therapy and are looking into starting her with her she seems wonderful it’s all nature based with a natural playground/swings/ climbing etc when weather permits, in a yurt 🛖 during cooler weather and the entire family is encouraged to join in during sessions. I think she’s going to enjoy it!
Keep strong and don't give in to their BS
Yup, they push it because, in their view, it's "easiest."
Which is disturbing. Their laziness shouldn't give the green light to abuse children.
Thank you for being such a good parent💜
Reading these kind of passionate statements about the care of ones autistic children can be very encouraging to autistic adults that did not get the same love and grace from our own families. I also feel similar seeing gentle parenting in action, but that is unrelated to being autistic although of course it would have helped a significant amount.
Music therapy, art therapy & occupational therapy can be really beneficial to some autistic people, too. Somethings to consider looking into, as time goes on.
@@nicholaslandry6367 I agree although we haven’t had a very positive experience with OT and discontinued due to practices that seem an awful like ABA) we are definitely looking into music therapy & art therapy in the near future- these are two of her absolute favorite things and she picks up SO quickly, when it’s something she is interested in and doesn’t feel berated! She knows how to play twinkle twinkle little star and jingle bells, sneaks in her brothers room often and turns the keyboard up to max volume and plays 😆💗I think she must have picked it up from a keyboard app she plays lol
this is psychological abuse. they're sending the message that she's so inherently wrong that compliance is the only way she'll ever receive even the tiniest bits of respect from others. that it's ok for people to demand compliance in situations that don't make sense or feel safe.
yes, and that’s why 9/10 autistic women are sexually assaulted. because THIS is how most of us are “taught” consent as children (that it doesn’t exist, that we should comply).
@@rembbokie yes!! and that our "no" isn't valid because 1.) we're either just being obstinate/disobendient 2.) we don't really know what we want and can't speak for ourselves 3.) our "no" is some form of manipulation tactic and we're really trying to "pull one over" on everyone that's "smarter" than us. it's horrific.
Yes ! It’s so true ! She is important and she does matter ! She is allowed to make her own choices and they aren’t allowed to control her !
She will have to deal with so much shame because of her parents. That is a terrible way to end up. Many don't make it out of that toxic shame. I hope she finds peace.
As a parent I realized that there’s lots of times when my kids ask “why” and I don’t really have a reason. Instead of yelling at them to do things for no reason, I change my request so that there IS a reason and the reason is included.
Ex “put the dishes away right now” becomes “I’m starting dinner at 6. You need to put the dishes away by then so I have things to cook with.”
Just a little change gives my kids respect, reason, autonomy, accommodations, and flexibility to find out what works best for them. One of my daughters find doing things as soon as she wakes up is easiest, the other likes to space out her tasks and do them while alone.
Call me crazy, but I think that’s a more helpful thing to learn than immediate compliance to a stranger for no good reason.
I really love this comment.
You sound like a wonderful mother. You're teaching them to manage their own lives while healthily communicating to them that you, and life, will have expectations of them.
Thank you for answering "why"
It makes such a difference to understand the purpose
I think the most infuriating part about this channel is they discussed putting Abby on puberty blockers before. The reason? They didn't want to deal with her actually growing up and having confusing feelings due to puberty. And it is perfectly legal for a parent to put an autistic child on puberty blockers without that child's knowledge or consent in their state, Florida. Even more disturbing, though, is there is an amendment in that law that prevents autistic children who are trans from obtaining puberty blockers when they request it!
They put her on a shot to prevent monthly cycles. Probably because Abbie is a fecal smearer.
I think not stopping her cycles and having to clean up THAT mess every month would be horrible. For Abbie and whoever would clean it up.
Abbie is profoundly Intellectually Disabled. Not so much Autism. Her mind is functioning at about an 18 month old. Imagine an 18 month old with a cycle. Fecal smearing or not.
Use your brain on this.
That's a dumb idea on his part. Doctors do not recommend putting kids on puberty blockers for more than 3 years. So she'll have to go into puberty (either with cross sex hormones or just stopping the puberty blockers) eventually after those 3 years or her health will be in danger from lack of sex hormones. People need sex hormones for things like building bones and creating blood cells. People also need autonomy but nobody cares about that when it comes to kids I guess.../s
It would be one thing if Abby wanted them but it's not ok to just do that to your kid to avoid responsibility. Why can't autistic kids have autonomy over their bodies?
Could you provide links for the puberty blockers for ASD kids? I am putting together a research document
@@brandieschmitt8974 why does anyone need a research document on this? It's common sense. Who would want to deal with someone who functions at 18 months old and smears feces on a monthly cycle?
Nobody sane that's who.
It is for everyone's benefit to do the shots.
@@brandieschmitt8974 If you were able to find some resources, please share. The only thing that comes up when I research this is in relation to gender affirming care
I truly hope her dad watches this with an open mind. I feel awful for Abigail. As an autistic person I cried the whole time watching her struggle. Thank you Paige for sharing and for educating the internet. I really hope this video blows up. Keep educating! You are an amazing teacher
Hes been doing this for years and has gotten responses like this for just as long. Unfortunately, he only has a few 'responses' all of which say that "the Internet just doesnt know abbie as well as I do".
Yeah any response Asa makes will not be kind. I’ve read his comments elsewhere before.
If he doesn't listen to his own daughter, why would he listen to Paige?
He responded and told me “I havnt seen any comments from you” lol
It’s so sad. I feel so bad for her
when they took away her communication device and forced her to vacuum without earplugs or headphones i teared up. i can’t handle vacuuming without ear protection and i’m verbal so i can advocate for myself…. i can’t even imagine how terrible and scary that must feel. i feel so sorry for her. i hope someday she gets people around her who respect her and her boundaries.
She doesn’t like headphones on her. She will take them off. She doesn’t like the sun in her eyes, but won’t leave sunglasses on either.
@@runawayjet3373oh no, so I guess they should never have tried to figure out any other solution or the reason why headphones and glasses are a problem ...
@@runawayjet3373 so then they should have tried to find more solutions. shitty, shitty parenting.
It appears that her comprehension and intelligence is being measured by her ability to vocalize. Since Abby cannot speak in a way that her father understands, he is not taking her needs and wants into consideration.
exactly!! and they don't even bother to realize or learn that SHE IS COMMUNICATING WITH THEM. like i've watched a handful off and on for years. and you know what i have always noticed? abby is funny!! she has a sense of humor and sarcasm. she expresses herself when she's happy and when she's uncomfortable and overwhelmed. she is communicating, they just...for some reason thing verbal is equilivent to intellgience which is so problematic. she has a voice and she's using it!! i wish they'd listen
Telling someone to do something while standing in their way is just the most allistic thing I can imagine.
*The day after Abby's dad learns she has autism*
Dad: "So I immediately started a youtube channel."
Cashier: "...and now you're gonna learn more about autism, right?"
Dad: "...wtf is a 'learn'?"
Yeah I think the dad is the biggest problem here
We're gonna find a cure hyuk hyuk
This comment is so underrated ffs
I need to interject around 17 mins in at the DO NOT TOUCH AUTISTIC PEOPLE to add "unless they ask you to"
Before I found out that I was autistic, I went to a nightclub with some friends, and towards the end of the night, we came across an autistic woman in some distress, inebriated and unable to find her friend. She didn't want to be alone, so we stayed with her.
At the time I knew very little about autism, but I do know that I give really good hugs. I am squishy and use a good amount of pressure. I did know, even then, that physical contact isn't always welcome in anyone, let alone autistic people, so you know what I did? I asked her if she would like a hug, if she thought it would help. She was like actually yeah that sounds great.
Unfortunately, one of my group was a nurse who works with autistic people, and her training was NO TOUCHY. So I had my hand on this girl's back, I think? It was a while ago. And the nurse removed my hand. Totally okay, she's a professional and knows better than me, I didn't want to inadvertently overstimulate her. But the girl puts my hand back, she asks me to stroke her, gently. Nurse lady keeps stopping me, and I'm like look I understand why you're stopping me but I am being ASKED to provide comfort, pressure and mild tactile stimulation. This girl is verbally telling me what she needs and as much as I get that you are trained and I'm not, I would rather listen to her about what she needs.
Obviously now I know I'm autistic so it makes a bit more sense as to why I reacted that way and why it stressed me out so much having simultaneous conflicting demands. My point being that in general, we should listen to autistic people and not assume we know better than them when it comes to their own needs or comfort.
This. When I'm in distress I usually ask my friends for a really long hug, but usually I hate hugs
@phoenixc7245 it really sucks if you're asking for a hug and it's not how you want it, too. I have so many requirements like I can't get too hot, I want to be stroked or pet but not too much or in the same spot, the person hugging me can't have an overpowering scent or be wearing bad fabrics, and I can't tolerate skin on skin contact for very long. Most importantly I need to be able to breathe and escape as soon as it becomes too much to handle
@TheHellthirteen yeah, I don't like tight hugs either. I'm not usually picky about certain fabrics unless it's been a while
Absolutely. F*ck the nurse who thought she got to speak on behalf of someone else.
I hate how their approach isn't "let's make her life more comfortable and safe" and instead it's "let's force her do the things she hates just because those are the 'norms' of our society"
I agree with you on that buddy.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
Yeah I hate it too ! I will be praying for her !
Why do they touch Abby so much and force her to do all these stupid tasks? They are so aggressive towards her. It's terrifying!
I cannot believe they touch her so much
Watch the whole video it's barely any touching. She just knows the family well she knows Abby she knows all of them
@@tonyaboggs5367 it’s a lot of touching in all videos. Not only from family but aides. Regardless, you wouldn’t want to be touched so why would she when they can use their words?
@@tonyaboggs5367 Just by watching this video I saw 7 instances. 15:40 and 25:27 were both for no reason and her mom practically shoves her at 34:22. Just because you know somebody doesn't mean you should touch them like that.
I hope Abby will come out and share her opinion on ABA in the future. I do not support ABA.
I've watched a lot of Fathering Autism, I found a TON of problematic things. The guy gives off strange vibes and I am a good judge of character.
Yeah something wasn't sitting right with me either. Glad to I wasn't the only one
I mean the simple fact of making content out of your disabled kid, seemingly without even her consent, is a BIG FUCKING RED FLAG to me.
Anyone who makes regular content from their kid (except like genuine stuff where the kid is not the center of the video) is weird as fuck and shows a great lack of respect toward that individual that you should be protecting, and not exposing to the world to be more vulnerable.
The father gives off “I’m using you to make me money vibes”
Abby is her family’s meal ticket and it pisses me off
Thank you for sharing your thought. I thought maybe it was just me, but now that I have heard some of this video & read many of the comments, it was not just my perspective.
The vacuum scene makes me want to cry. She cocked her head and stimmed more because she was obviously in actual pain. Where is the empathy in this?! Heartbreaking! 😭😭😭
when the "therapist" took away her communication device i was shocked but actually not. How can they treat their daughter like this and think its acceptable. Theyre just training her like a dog to do tasks and chores. They should get her an occupational therapist who would literally do the exact opposite to ALL of this.
they literally took away her voice. i was shocked.
The tablet was taken away momentarily because if she was using it for task avoidance. There are a lot of things in life that we have to do that We don't want to.. It's life. I don't want to get-up-and-go to work every morning. I want to stay home and lay in bed, but I have bills to pay. Is that a form of abuse on me?
this feels like a conversion camp for neurodivergent to neurotypical
the founder of conversion therapy was actually involved in the development of gay conversion therapy
Gay conversion therapy was directly based on ABA.
The only reason I can watch videos like this is because you are there and commenting on it and saying every thought I have but often can't verbalize.
Actually; 5 minutes in and this video of fathering autism is one of the exact reasons why I now absolutely stop myself from watching videos like these. I find them disturbing to see and despite never having been in ABA (though I might have been, if I was diagnosed earlier) they tend to bring me in a state of emotional flashbacks.
@@alorena_02 I was never in ABA myself either but I still related to a lot of this from how my parents treated me. The part about not assuming your autistic child is being manipulative hit so close to home. That’s something I’m still scared of being called for not doing a task right away :(
I think a lot of autistic people have experiences similar to things in this video
It's so hard to watch. I'm actually grateful that Paige doesn't hold back the rage. It's the only honest reaction and it helps to process why it all feels so wrong.
Yeah my adrenaline is almost making me shake, my fingertips are cold.... I'm constantly going back to the video and the comments.
I could stop watching but I really want to hear Paiges take on it.
And I hope that CameraDad sees this video as well.
I've heard Footless Jo tell a story about a mother taking away her kid's prosthetic leg because the kid wasn't complying. Same thing! Like WTF!!
It is what she needs to function, it's a part of her body! Like the iPad is part of Abby's ability to communicate! You're literally DISABLING SOMEONE as a punishment! Aaarghh.
I was thinking of this as well. Not ok to take away a device that someone needs to live their life.
No one deserves to go through that.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
@@sharkn3rd I agree with you on that buddy.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
I really...I'm not autistic that I know of, but have to wonder how differently Abby wouldve reacted if the therapist started by addressing Abby, talking about the tasks for the session, and letting Abby make choices about order and use her tablet to talk about what she thinks she needs in order to get these things done. You know, maybe treat her as a person who deserves the basic respect due any human being. Because i think about anyone would be at least annoyed by the way they're handling things.
...and there are things like I'm not sure how clear they'd made it to her before that moment in the car that the requested car ride was going to culminate in a party. I just...don't understand treating another person like that.
@@amw6846they don't see us as people. ivar lovaas, the creator of aba therapy, has been quoted saying autistic children are not really children, they're just bodies, and that ABA is how you "build the child." until we are obeying their commands, we literally aren't human to them.
I have no patience for parents who choose to put their own convenience and F*CKING HOUSEHOLD CHORES over their child knowing they are safe and loved. Abigail is aware that her parents see her distress and are choosing a glass getting put in a dishwasher over making sure she is supported and not in pain. Imagine knowing that your parents care more about a carpet getting vacuumed than they do about you having any autonomy or safety whatsoever. Absolutely despicable.
I remember watching this video a long time ago and commenting about how uncomfortable it made me to watch. I hate having to watch it again, but I love your commentary. I have learned nothing more valuable than what I have learned from autistics, and it has helped me be a much better parent to my autistic son. we give him so much freedom to stim as loudly as he wants to, and we get comments all the time about how happy he is. Nothing is more satisfying than seeing a huge smile on his face.
As an autistic adult, this comment made me so happy! Thank you for listening to autistic voices! I’m sure you’re son is so grateful that you allow him to be his authentic autistic self!
@@emmab9545 yessss! Thank God for those who are willing to share their experience and perspective!
This comment warms my heart as unfortunately not every parent believes that ASD is real or that their child is actually struggling and looking for their support. I see a LOT of Autistic parents who still support the puzzle piece or something that isn't fully where the ASD community is at and it bothers me as a late diagnosed Autistic AFAB adult who struggles with my own family accepting certain things as related to my ASD and how it feels for me. We need more parents who are showing their children love and understanding and, supporting the ASD community and our voices. Thank you.
so funny (/s) how dad is pissed off and complaining after the party, and then she also starts complaining and he's immediately like "stop whining" even though he was doing the exact same thing
imagine putting a "/s" after obvious sarcasm 💀💀💀
@@bruhmoment5974 imagine making fun of someone for using tone indicators on a video about autism. SMH
As an autistic person, I recently made a speech on ABA and autism speaks and many misconceptions about autism. I felt the exact same rage as you whenever she was being touched and talked about even when she was there.
Paige, you are so articulate, I always enjoy your videos, especially regarding ABA. This made me so upset as a fellow Autistic person. The vacuuming thing made me so mad. I can’t vacuum either without earplugs, otherwise I am physically in pain and feel so overwhelmed. I felt for her so much in that moment. My heart hurt when the therapist moved her communication device out of the way. I literally gasped and had to put my phone down and take some deep breaths. How dare she do that. So horrible. Everytime they touched her I physically cringed. When people touch me like that, my immediate reaction is to push them as far away from me as possible. As it should be, because nobody should touch someone without their consent, especially an autistic child. It breaks my heart that now she has been conditioned to not react in that way. She has been conditioned to learn that her consent does not matter. I really hope your videos educate a lot of people and the attitudes toward ABA continue to shift bit by bit.
"She has been conditioned to learn that her consent does not matter" you put that perfectly. It is so sad.
Must admit that I have only gotten a vacuum cleaner in the last couple of years, before that I would sweep. These days I do have my headphones on when the main vacuuming is happening, can handle the small amount if it is just a spot clean especially if I am the one doing it.
@@amandamandamands I still prefer sweeping, but then once I've made all the piles of crud, I vacuum them up instead of using the dustpan. Plus for rugs, you can use lint rollers to get the hard-to-reach stuff, so you you don't have to keep vacuuming the same spots over and over.
I physically flinched when they started telling her to vacuum.
I made the mistake of sharing in a “safe space” at work, specifically for people with disabilities my thoughts on ABA. Instantly, someone piped up that they’d used it on their children, and had great results. Reading the room, I felt like pointing out that teaching your kid they can’t trust you with their difficulties only makes YOU feel better, not your kid (even if it mean they “act up” less) would only get me into trouble.
This is part of why I’m quitting that job. I’ve had several managers specifically in charge of disability and queer employee groups ghost me when I ask “If I out myself as autistic, and my boss’ boss’ boss just thinks I’m unreliable, and I get laid off next year… what protections do I have?”. We’re all about supporting queer workers, but invisible disabilities get crickets.
Sorry. This is recent, and I’m still bitter.
You have the right to be bitter!
@@alexdiaz4296 - Yeah. But it doesn’t further the conversation as much as if I were being calm.
And to be honest, I couldn’t watch all of Page’s video. Watching Abby be abused just got to me. Had to walk away.
You're valid, I'm sorry this happened to you. This is as good a place as any to be bitter so maybe you can have the conversation from a more detached viewpoint later but if you still can't that's okay
This was triggering but thank you for it. I have Cerebral Palsy, and attended physical, occupational, , and swim therapy for YEARS. This is very much how I was treated when I was little. I was CONSTANTLY talked about like I wasn’t there, told how to move my body, touched, etc. And I HATED it! HATED IT! But me walking made my parents happy, so I kept doing it. All the while, I believed that I’d be more lovable if I could appear more able bodied. I loved horse back riding, and I loved the independence I gained eventually. But most of the things I learned, I fucking figured out by myself. As someone also studying to be a therapist, I also find ABA abusive and disgusting. DISABLED CHILDREN ARE HUMAN BEINGS. STFU.
I’ve known people with CP who have had surgery and wound up functioning worse because they couldn’t move their bodies naturally anymore. Walking is seen as superior and easier for everyone else.
I'm so sorry you went through similar stuff. Disabled people are, first and foremost, people and should be treated as such.
I bet the daughter is remembering every word being said. This is infuriating. I see from the video that the girl in non-verbal but I'm pretty sure she's understanding a lot more of the conversation than they think. Kids are motivated by what excites them. What excites this girl?
Dang! Limited breaks?! That would drive me crazy! Also saying, "One more thing!" What? Why didn't they inform her of the thing in the first place? Yep, this is making me crazy just watching.
Oh yeah 100% with the remembering stuff thing. I’m also autistic and just today did exactly that when i was feeling really depressed. Just repeating all the little critiques and comments over and over again, word for word. They never think we remember, but we do, and that kind of stuff sticks with you. Especially when you hear it constantly from the people who are supposed to care for you.
Also, how is she this old, non verbal, and getting ABA therapy this whole time? A good therapist would have taught her how to communicate somehow (verbal, ASL, or tablet) by now.
@@themurdernerd she does have an AAC device/tablet, but it's being taken from her as punishment
I agree. I knew a girl who was barely verbal, but she remembered things I would say and would ask people about things they said before, or she’d say something and ask the person she was speaking with to repeat it back to her to show they were listening. She did need support in some areas, but to treat her like she couldn’t comprehend language would have been both to insult her and to dehumanize her. Autistic people are not incapable of understanding language; we’re just not always capable of communicating back in the same way
Yes yes and yes. God, you voiced everything I was thinking so well. When I was 18 before I really understood what ABA was, I accepted a job (under a different name, Behavioral Health Therapist) because I thought it would help me with the degree I was pursuing in Special Education. I quickly realized that what they wanted us to do didn't work and I couldn't force myself to do it ethically. I saw so many things that made me feel sick for the children and when I reported things they were always brushed aside... I was often asked to "get rid of stims" which i felt was heartbreaking and always refused to do. I tried to explain to parents if their kid asked why, how much it benefited to truly explain why. When the kids understand whats going or why they are learning something and how they can apply it in the future, they are able to understand, learn more, and feel comfortable throughout the experience. So many parents refused to learn and just wanted me to "fix" their child who did NOT need fixing, they needed understanding!! I cried every single day I left work and I quit after only 6 months when I realized there was only so much I could do when the parents and other therapists refused to learn. I still miss the kiddos, i had a great connection with them and i feel sad i couldnt help them more.
Thank you for sharing. I was thinking of going to school for ABA for graduate school and this video really helped open my eyes!
This is so sad.
It’s crazy to me that you can be 18 years old and fully qualified to be any kind of therapist lol
I'm an audhd teacher of autistic kids in the US and I'm likely about to leave the public school system because I candidly just can't take it anymore. The goal--especially for ND/autistic kids is compliance over authentic learning, mental health, etc. And what other people see as "progress" because a kid is finally sitting still, I can recognize as a trauma response because they were repeatedly given no other choice but to collapse and retreat inside themselves.
(I've watch fatheringautism for a while as well. I do believe they are good people with nothing but Abigail's best interest in mind. I really hope they listen to voices like yours and continue to adjust things.)
Me too buddy.🥰🫂🌈🏳️🌈
No , I think they are horrible people and abusers ! They probably won’t even listen to Paige , which is sad , because she’s so smart !
Hi Paige, I'm not sure if you would be interested in my story, but I underwent aba therapy and I am not autistic. I have ADHD.
I was misdiagnosed with autism when I was 5 years old. I had developmental delays because I lost my hearing and I have ADHD, which gave me lots of autism like symptoms. A combination of both lead me to getting misdiagnosed. I got put in aba and my grade school treated me like I was stupid. I'm very smart, learned how to read and use a computer at 4, and I understand social cues and I am really good at analyzing people, some call me an empath. Here's what happened to me who is not autistic, but ADHD.
I have lifelong complex PTSD now! My school gaslighted me into believing I was stupid, when in reality I am very smart, just in a more ADHD manner. I was physically abused by both my elementary school and aba therapy. They slapped my hands because I stimmed! One aba therapist said I was "more masculine" because of my hyperactivity from ADHD and justified it to physically abuse me. I was not treated as a human during aba. I was treated as a test subject and held to higher standards than neurotypical children. I was told I did not understand social cues and I had no empathy. I didn't believe I belonged in society and I isolated myself.
My Cptsd makes me biased here, but I firmly believe aba is abusive. Even if children aren't being beaten, aba is abusive. Children in aba are held to unrealistic standards and are not seen as equal to their neurotypical counterparts. I just about started crying when you said they treated the girl like a test subject, because that was my childhood. I was treated like a test subject. All what they tried to do was make me normal. They never cared about my mental health and I was suicidal during my teen years.
There was only one thing aba therapy was good for, it taught me how to watch out for bad people. Bad people are rarely obvious and they might even deceive you by saying they are helping you or that it is good for you. Lots of people with PTSD are highly empathetic because when they are traumatized, they learn how read faces of people who hurt them, so they can protect themselves from the next threat. I am very good at spotting people with bad intentions, as I am constantly trying to protect myself.
I don't know if you will read this Paige, but thank you for speaking out against aba and destigmatizing autism. I'm not autistic, but watching your videos has been very helpful for coping with my trauma. I have started stimming more, and it has done wonders for shielding ptsd triggers, mood regulation and paying attention. Turns out, there's more compactity in your brain when you don't mask, because masking is exhausting.
When they forced her to vacuum without any accommodations I teared up. I have ASD and major hypersensitivity to loud noises to the point of it being painful. So if they supposedly understand that she is hypersensitive to noise, is this not literally torture? Disgusting.
If you think that is bad, wait until you see the video of them at the grocery store, where Abby has a meltdown and they force her to continue helping them grocery shop because leaving early would reward the meltdown
This is just a general parenting rant, but it blows my mind how a couple will spend YEARS trying to conceive a baby, and then when the baby comes, they just WING IT?? Like, maybe spend those YEARS taking parenting classes?? Google??? And then if their kid happens to come out neuroatypical or with a disability, they're just like, "Okay so step 1 is obviously train this kid to be "normal" so I can "handle" them better", when they weren't even prepared for a neurotypical/abled kid to BEGIN WITH. @.@
Hi Paige, I am a doctoral student coerced by my school to take ABA therapy classes and my chair person refused to read my dissertation until I "did my hours." I freaked out when I went into the field and saw what was going on. I totally agree with what you are saying. First of all, the companies are making insane amounts of money putting teenage girls out of high school in homes to boss kids around. The BCBAs are flat broke and stressed out. Many of them are autistic with mental health problems, have little training and are being guided by the company who are guided by an ethics board with little control over what happens. The parents want nothing to do with the kid and use the therpist as a sounding board. The therapist is basically abused by the kids because they are not supposed to be bossing a kid around in their own home. The parents know this. This sit there is a sadist mentality and because they are angry at society (often rich people) they watch the girl get beat up by their child. I am hate this field...a bunch of rich men again getting rich off the weak and fragile while crazy people sit idley by..Im so sickened by it. I told the school they are crazy for promoting it. I spoke up and I am not sorry I did. I plan on writing a paper on how to improve treatment for these people. Its so crazy, making these people go crazy and making teenage girls get beat up. I hope these people enjoy their millions in hell
I suspect I have autism , I hate being touched . I have an autistic child and although we like to cuddle sometimes , we both can feel when we want our personal space . If he’s having a meltdown I ask him how I can help .. I ask him if he wants a hug or his plushies , anything that could possibly comfort him . (He’s only 6yrs old ) I don’t always just go in & hug him bc I want to teach him he can consent ! & he will tell me sometimes not to touch him or hug him & I always tell him it’s ok & I respect his decision . But me being of Mexican decent if you put boundaries with your parents , it’s seen as being disrespectful… but I’m trying to break the cycle to the best of my ability .
I love how this video starts with Paige saying she’s not going to get too mad and yell, then the MOMENT Abby is touched, she loses her MIND. I can’t believe this is happening to kids. So sad.
Paige may be yelling, but she’s not getting too mad. She’s getting the appropriate amount of mad.
Honestly, I got the same amount of mad as Paige did. I don't like light touches, but even things like hugs I just don't like. I do it for my family sometimes like during special occasions or, if I feel like my family members need a hug. But, it's not like I love physical touch. Even my love language says that physical touch is literally the last thing that's important for me in a relationship. AKA DON'T TOUCH ME! It feels a lot like its part of the infantilizing thing with disabilities and ASD specifically. Abigail can understand and I think that's where talking about her right in front of her is so bad. She understands you're talking about her right in front of her. It doesn't feel good, especially when your dad is telling someone outside the family about YOUR behavior and how YOURE not listening. Also, why feel the need to touch so much? I get that NTs do that, but like stop touching people, especially people that don't have as easily a voice to say no. And, also not listening to her body language. Each time someone touched her even a little bit, Abigail started vocalizing more and shifting away from the touch. How hard is that for people to see? Just stop touching other people. If it's not your body, ask. That's literally what consent is all about.
@@Kaye09MNchickjust in trying to teach my son body autonomy, I gave him the freedom to reject or accept hugs from extended family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc). So if one of them asks for a hug and he doesn’t immediately go to them, I always interject and say ‘or a fist bump, high five, wave’ and then he will approach and give a fist bump or high five… I’ve been doing this with him since he was about 2 1/2- 3 years old, and he loves giving high fives and fist bumps, but sometimes I can tell he absolutely does not want to hug people, so I always give him an ‘out’. We have also talked about this subject and how he doesn’t have to give hugs if he doesn’t want to, and that’s how we came up with the high fives or fist bumps. Sometimes adults can be pushy when it’s just a kid saying no about the hug, so if needed, I step in to prevent the adult push back.
A few months ago, he was diagnosed with ASD severity level 1 & ADHD, so with this new information I’ve been given, I am even more pleased with my decision to not force him into those awkward family hugs. 🥰
I am so glad that my autistic daughter was diagnosed as a teenager. Because if she had been diagnosed as a young child, I would probably have searched for resources, and, not knowing much of anything about autism and autistic children, I probably would have subjected my daughter to this therapy. And I would have been so wrong for doing that to her; I can recognize that, even though I’ve only been learning about autism for about two years. Watching this video makes my heart hurt for that precious girl.
As someone who wasn't even diagnosed as a teen, I'm thankful I wasn't for that very reason. My mother is a teacher, and just last month I was talking with her about why Autism Speaks is not to be supported, and she couldn't grasp that "ABA = bad." "But we do ABA in school." Uh huh. And just like how you're not mad at your 1990s self for declawing our family cat before it was widely known that that's bad but you didn't declaw the next one, you can stop that now.
That's a great way of explaining it. Just because we used to do something or just because something has "always been this way" doesn't mean we can't change it when we know it to be wrong or harmful. That excuse is out of laziness and fear out of "what do we do instead?". Like, I could see a LOT of parents with Autistic children who do ABA that would freak out if they couldn't do it anymore because I think it does make things easier to deal with. The actual thing isn't being addressed. I kind of explain it as a band-aid fix that MIGHT fix the behavior for a short time, but then it causes other issues including other behavioral issues that still need to be addressed. I haven't gone through ABA myself (late diagnosed Autistic AFAB adult) and have tried explaining it to my family. They also don't understand. It's hard to explain why it's so bad when for NT it looks like parents who are just trying to discipline their child or change their child's behavior. But, if you look at this with an Autistic lens you start to see stuff that isn't ok and does look more like abuse or maltreatment. I don't think ABA was designed or created BY or FOR Autistic people. I think it was designed/created to control children who were deemed as "disobedient" and a way for parents to control their child's behavior without having to do the hard work of figuring out what's causing the behavior. Cause then you would have to get vulnerable and ask your child what's going on. There's a lot to this that I think is the problem, but I think the biggest is that we know better now that this doesn't work and is harmful, but yet it's still an "evidence-based practice".@@JennaGetsCreative
@@JennaGetsCreative "I'm glad I wasn't diagnosed as a kid, because if I had been you'd have tortured me."
@@Kaye09MNchickHonestly I don't think this approach is okay for almost any kids. It's about obedience and just "doing what you're told" - not because it's an emergency, or you can't handle explaining things right now. Just because. That compliance makes it easy to parent, but it also destroys boundaries and trust with kids.
When I first got diagnosed, I was grieving the life I might have had if I'd been diagnosed earlier. Certainly as a teenager it might have made more things better. But then I considered how my parents treated my sister who was diagnosed with ADHD pretty young, and I realized I might have been worse off getting diagnosed earlier. In addition to the lack of effort put toward understanding my ND brain, they probably just would have gone with whatever the professionals recommended, and I might have ended up in ABA. And the worst part is, I was a goody-two-shoes who tried to please the adults around me, so I would have been *good* at it.
OH MY GOD. TH-cam suggested this family's channel to me and I clicked on them a few times and just felt.... disgusted?? I ended up blocking their channel after seeing a clip of them talking about how difficult and horrible their trip was because of their daughter's meltdowns IN FRONT OF HER. I just can't believe this is the "normal", accepted way to treat an autistic human being.
My son is 5-1/2 and I’ve never thought it’s appropriate for parents to talk about a kid when they’re present.
Unless they’re singing the child’s praise, then scream it from the rooftops (builds confidence). But critical things should be discussed quietly because the child isn’t going to always understand context.
@@QuartzieK agreed!!
I watched a few of their videos a couple years ago and stopped because it was so upsetting how they treated her. She's exploited. There are no accomodations, no understanding. It's just dog training; jumping through hoops. It's hard to believe they are so unwilling to learn about autism. Their ignorance is doing a lot of damage, to Abby, and to others who are trying to 'learn' from their videos.
I agree with everything Paige is saying because this therapy program is a giant pile of shit! I was visited by an ABA therapist a few times over a short period in high school, not knowing she was ABA, and I disagreed with the things she was saying and even signed fake contracts that, I assume, stated I'll go along with what they say. But the worst thing was her telling me, "oh well, that's too bad" when I said I wanted to have an iced capp from Tim Hortons all the time, and I thought to myself, "who the fuck are you to tell me 'that's too bad'?". And these people don't realize they're forcing us to mask and be allistic, but those allistics are also masking themselves and living in a fake society.
i used to watch fathering autism but the more i watched the more i got uncomfortable with everything. and then when i was diagnosed with autism i realized exactly why i hated their defense of ABA so much. i unsubbed years ago and they just kept going.
ABA made me extremely uncomfortable and angry even before I was diagnosed. My visceral (and most likely incorrect) feeling is that ABA is something totalitarian and fascist governments use to program people who think and feel different.
I remember many times that my mom would tell me to do something and I would ask her why, and I'd always get a "just do it" or "does it matter?" Response, and it would drive me crazy omg
The dogs know how distressed she is, they keep following her and keeping an eye on her.
The worst part of this was Abby's crying. I'm Autistic and I've always gotten upset when I hear people crying. She may be nonverbal but the sounds she makes convey pain and distress.
Paige, the more I watch this, the more angry I get. Thank you for getting angry. Them taking the communication device is fucking infuriating. Thank you for doing this video.
ABA seems to be designed to reenforce and create new masking strategies to make the people around the person with autism feel more comfortable, not to assist the person with autism.
I'll never get over an episode I saw where they were like "how does she know the pool is cold?" And they contemplated how for like 5mins.
Something that REALY gets me about ABA is you're literally teaching children who are even more vulnerable than neurotypical children that is is 100% okay for adults to manipulate their bodies however they want, allowed to touch them and move them and tell them to do whatever. That just sounds like setting up autistic kids for disaster by teaching them that adults violating their physical boundaries is alright.
Bingo.
She absolutely should have choices. I’ve never seen an actual session until now but I can see it doesn’t make sense. I feel sad and angry for Abigail. 🙁
I was so uncomfortable watching those clips you can tell how frustrated and overwhelmed she gets. I just dont understand how those parents think this is okay or right. Putting myself in Abby's position while watching literally made me anxious. Very gross.
I'm a special education teacher who works with preschoolers and I specifically try to avoid ABA techniques if I can help it because I know it causes a lot of harm. I also have ADHD and possible autism myself, so I look at it as- would I want to be treated this way? My kiddos are little, but they're also autonomous human beings and it's SO important that their voices are still heard. I never push an activity if it is clearly causing distress-it can ALWAYS be done another time. I'm not perfect, and I still have a lot to learn, but I've learned a lot from this video alone. Thank you!
I was mostly mute through elementary and middle school and it was very common for people to talk about me right in front of me. Sometimes they would whisper to each other, but they mostly just talked at a normal volume and would comment on everything I did, like how I walked or moved and after a while I just started tuning it out. If you can't speak, people like to fill in the blanks themselves. I didn't get diagnosed until 25.
ABA will never be 'done right' as it's main concept does not focus on the clients personal needs and experience.
There's this assumption that Autistic people do not have a thought process rather than, their thought process differs and is sorting through multiple things at once.
Oh Abby, these people are failing to communicate with you on EVERY level. I hear you kiddo 😔
it makes me cry. this poor kid. i hear you too, abby. and i know you'll meet people someday who listen, and hear, and care.
They're not teaching her how to cope with autism, they're teaching her how to ignore it
yes exactly!! and that's why they deny her things that could help. getting her earplugs? she'd be more comfortable, not in pain, and more inclined to help with the vaccuming. but heaven forbid they do that because that's "letting the autism win" (a term i horrifically discovered in an autism facebook group). letting her stim and self-soothe so she isn't so overwhelmed and has less meltdowns? nope! because that'd be "letting the autism win" it's awful
@@promisemochi yeah, and that way she is less happy and paradoxically less functioning or independent
They're teaching her how to behave like "normal" people so THEY can ignore her neurodiversity
The fact that she had her voice for a very small portion of the video is very telling.
less than 2 years ago I read beyond behaviors (book by dr mona delahooke) and watched your video on why aba is abuse . I spent a lot of time listening to autistic voices about ABA. My nonspeaking kid hated going to school and had self injurious behaviors so I pulled my kid out of ABA (public school)and was placed at a school that has DIR floortime. One year at the new school alternative learning school behavioral plans were taken off his IEP. He loves going to school that is based on relationships with educators that respect his autonomy and individuality. School also meets the child developmentally. No more self injurious behaviors ( which were all a threat response) and now hes learnng to type and spell to communicate. Thank you Paige!!!!!!!!!! I value and listen to autistic voices! We greatly benefited from understanding the nervous system as well . No to behaviorism for this fam.
Paige-san, when I was a private tutor I once saw a parent talk about their child in front of them as if they weren't there and found it rather disturbing. But the child wasn't autistic. I think this is more common than you might think. Unfortunately there are a lot of adults who think children shouldn't be allowed to have opinions or any autonomy.
i love that you said you don’t tell your dance students “good job.” i’m not autistic but i have ADHD and struggle with perfectionism and a need to “perform” to feel worthy (gifted kid syndrome). i think it’s incredibly important for this next generation of parents and teachers to think differently about how we praise kids and how even praise that seems kind can be unhelpful and even harmful and cause kids to find their worth in the wrong things.
“Americans are weird”
Hey! … you are absolutely correct.
9:11 Exactly. When I was homeschooled for some of my life as a child, my brain would be bombarded with so much information by my mom, and I wasn't allowed to have breaks in between, except for lunch. And the curriculum was advanced, and I couldn't sit still because I was forced to do more than I could handle as an Autistic human being. But they didn't know, and I wasn't diagnosed until 21', thanks to you actually. But it's so true. Forcing Autistics to do something at an excessive capacity to which makes them feel anxious or uncomfortable is wrong. You should never do anything to purposely trigger an Autistic individual. My mom thought I was playing them all, and manipulating them too, when in reality, I was just Autistic 😅
So fun story. I actually got hired to work in an ABA clinic, and they gave me a bunch of youtube videos to train with. Well, when I finished them, the algorithm brought me here.
The next day, I had my first day of work, and I saw aaaall of the red flags glaring before me. They assigned me to a child who wanted to run away a bunch, wanted to take off his shoes, wanted to play with one puzzle all day. And this clinic completely disregarded everything this poor nonverbal kid was, in my opinion, saying very clearly with his body language.
They threw me into the situation with absolutely no training, and expected me to just immediately start placing demands on him. I told my boss I had to leave, that it would never work.
The saddest part is, I could see how brilliant the kids were, but I could also see so clearly how unethical the entire situation was. Now I'm watching a bunch of your videos, and really seriously contemplating creating my own therapeutic space where kids can just chill and be happy for a while.
tl:dr, thanks for making these videos. they're great.
I am a Speech and Language Therapist (aka Speech and Language Pathologist in US/Australia/Canada) here in the UK and I completely agree with everything you said!
I feel like I'm coming up against ABA/ABA 'approaches' more and more at the moment and the evidence I share against it just falls on deaf ears because their way 'gets results fast' 🙄😡.
It's great hearing your perspective on these problematic approaches because you are able to understand this girl's responses so much better than most people who work with autistics ever could.
I hope people who work in ABA or have anything to do with ABA actually take the time to watch and listen to what you're saying because it is so important.
Another point to add: who on earth is watching this video and calling it 'successful'?! All i could see was a girl who really didn't want to do what she was being told to do, clearly communicating that, and being completely ignored! No wonder she complies in the end!! Infuriating 😡😡
ABA therapy just reminds me of dog training. It's so dehumanizing.
I love seeing your reaction videos paige! Please do more! Whether it's more ABA related videos, or other things you react to!
Please see above comment from a dog trainer. Modern dog training is actually more gentle and listens to do the dog than ABA. A lot of dog trainers wouldn't even use these techniques on dogs.
A lot of dog training is just “this dog going to do dog things, and that’s okay. Instead of telling it NOT to do dog things ever, let’s give this dog an outlet to be a dog.”
(Ex. Training a dog who likes to dig to use a sandbox to accommodate their digging drive)
Autistic kids would probably be better off if they were treated with the same understanding and empathy dog trainers show dogs.
@@melissabennett6571 Didn’t even consider this! Wow, that makes it even more sad.
As an special education preschool paraprofessional AuDHD trying to change my ableism, the limited breaks is really because the educators or therapists are on a time schedule and there is huge pressure to have the student "make progress," or get the thing done. It is also there because the educator/ therapist doesn't invest in the child in connecting with them and their interests or give them choices and control. You are so right. We need to ask why and change what we do for the right why. I am lucky to work with a lot of professionals who are trying to make the shift to neurodivergent affirming strategies that foster autonomy, but there is still so much bad information and practises out there.
Tell your colleagues that the education of the disabled is not “special” education.
@@GhostIntoTheFog Yes! There are also so many things about the IEPs that are anciently written but they are legal documents where so much of the language can't be changed. It's disheartening that a lot of the ableism comes from the system of education meant to support the very people they serve. The most frustrating thing about working with most professionals is the underlying idea that they are supposed to wean the students out of their supports as much as they can, like denying them extra breaks when they are overstimulated is progress. The kids aren't making progress, they just learn to ignore their own needs and mask better.
'She's not being defiant, she's just SMARTER THAN YOU!'
The theme of Fathering Autism videos seems to be “Our daughter doesn’t behave exactly the way we want her to, despite us being mean to her.”
in their eyes they really do equate her non-verbalness with a low intelligence. heck, i even saw a youtube comment saying we need to do away with this "their own way" mindset. deaf people communicate with sign language. that's their way of communicating. so the mindset of these people is just...to not allow sign language, or anything that isn't speech? it's so bizarre to me. i've watched their videos off an on for years. what i see from abby is someone who so funny, who has a sarcastic side, who expresses herself so clearly when she's happy, joyful, angry, scared, and upset. they just choose not to listen. they made up their minds that she's "dumb" and are treating her as such. it breaks my heart to see that.
Ok I just have to come right out and say this. As a Mother to 2 daughters with ASD (one biologically mine, the other being my step daughter, ie my husbands daughter from a previous marriage), and a son who is undergoing testing for ADHD, not to mention my husband himself being on the autism spectrum, I’m really, like REALLY struggling with this video.
Im thankful to you for using your platform to put it out there to people that this crap exists. I’d like to preface this by saying I am in no way a perfect mother, I make mistakes plenty and often, learn from them and move on. I’d also like to preface this by saying that all my children are equal to me in sense of my love for them, my heart forever being attached to them, whether step children or not. We have been able to create a lovely family dynamic where all adults get on super well, in fact my husbands ex wife has turned out now to be one of my dearest friends, and my ex partner is welcomed into the fold and respected and loved. Any partners they may find, so long as they give it at least a year before they slowly and carefully introduce them to the kids (just as I and my husband did with each other), are also welcomed in, shown love and care. The children see everyday that adults can love and support whoever, and as the saying goes, “things only get weird if you make it weird”. But I digress.
This video is so so hard to watch, the sheer lack of basic knowledge about autism is astounding. I’m talking basic basic stuff here! And Abbey isn’t silly, she knows that these are the things she has to do to get through this ridiculous pointless “training programme”, she knows that this will not relate to the real world in any way because things just don’t work like that. The excessive touching, the constant “good listening”, the sense of urgency with these everyday menial tasks … even as a neurotypical mother, I often need micro breaks to just be able to manage throughout each day. The way everything is micro managed for her, she’s being told to do all these things, yet namely her father just takes things from her hands and does it for her…. do they want her to take a moment and work this out, or not? Mixed signals that even I as neurotypical would struggle with. Clothes and shoes, yeah she is likely going to be feeling every tiny detail, every seam and fold, every time fabric touches her skin, the way shoes make your feet go weird to make them squish in there. Again, this is BASIC BASIC STUFF!
My heart hurts seeing this video, and I thank you for using your following to show these things, there may be many unsuspecting parents out there right now who have watched this video after having been told “if you want to be a good and decent parent, you will take your autistic child through this programme, you don’t want to be doing the wrong thing for them now will you, so this is the programme for them”. Maybe they saw this video and thought for a moment, and found courage to say no!! Thank you for that.
One last thing that bugs me, entirely unrelated, but as I’m in rant mode, may as well let it all out 😆. My husband and I are incredibly grateful for the fact that our collective children get on so well and truly love each other as family, in particular the 2 girls who are both 11 and both have autism. We are blessed and we are grateful everyday. But soooo many people say to us “awww, they both get on so well because they are the same age, both girls, and both have autism”. Ummm, actually no. I’m sure the abide factors help in their close bond, but they love each other because they gel together well as individuals. When did it become a thing that when you have autism, any individual traits you have are now void and/or obsolete? Is it really so hard to imagine that they get on well through a mutual love of anime, Comic-Con’s, feeling comfortable enough to let all their weird out in-front of each other? Does that no longer count? Are we to just agree with everyone that they get on so well because they are both autistic girls aged 11??? I’m sure it helps, but autistic people still have opinions, tastes, likes and dislikes …. they are still people!! Thank you for allowing me to vent that.
As I said, as far as parenting goes, I’m far from perfect, learn new stuff everyday. But I have learned that it’s ok to let things spill, fall, break etc, providing it’s not expensive or dangerous to anyone. That’s how we learn, autistic people included. At the dishwasher, would it have really harmed anyone if she had been given ample time and space to figure things out for herself, and likely she would have spilt some water. But, it’s just water, why the big deal? That’s how we put such instances into our memories for next time. All children, in my opinion, need to to fall and learn from these little t😂😂umbles and mistakes. But sweetest Abbey here is given zero opportunity for any of this, it’s rush rush rush, and “oop you took too long, Dads going to grab it and just do it for you. Better luck next time”.
I could truly go on about thus video forever, but I just wanted to thank you from my heart, as a neurotypical mother with a neurodivergent household. Your video today likely prevented a few others from being put through such demoralising, pointless and cruel “programme”
Paige thank you for talking about your experiences with teaching dance. When I started at my first job as a gymnastics coach, I was really worried that I wouldn't be good at it because I'm autistic. But I've since learned that doing things my own way, instead of how an allistic coach might do them, tends to make me better at coaching.
Watching a gymnast notice their improvement on a skill, asking them how the skill felt, listening to what they observed from their perspective, and sharing what I observed from mine - that's the best part of my job. Once I got to know the kids in my classes, I realized that they don't listen to me in the gym just because I have "authority" over them; they've figured out that I know a lot about gymnastics, and they can apply that knowledge to improve much faster than they might alone. They understand that we're all working together towards the same goal: doing sick flips.
The fact that I'm able to ask for their input and learn from them instead of trying to control them all the time - that's the autism! I'm doing for them what I like people to do for me: treat me as an equal, consider my unique experiences and opinions. It's nice to hear you put into words this feeling that I get when I do a good job as a coach.
15:52 THIS. YES. The number of times I was restrained and dragged as a child is INNUMERABLE. Once even saw a clearly Autistic child in Walmart that was clearly undiagnosed (you could tell bc the parents were oblivious to it even though he was walking on his toes, flapping, holding onto a* childish iPad case with happy music), because the parents were yelling at him to keep up and asking him what was wrong with him for straying and lagging behind, and grabbing him to get him to keep up..... Um, WHAT? This world is crazier than it looks from the moon.
Thank you so much for this video. It really helps to understand better how to be a better parent to my kids. It also helps me with how better to explain to my childrens’ therapist and teachers why their methods aren’t working. The work you do on here is invaluable 🙏
I am in ABA. It hasn't helped me much at all, it feels very repetitive with little to no actual guidance.
If you are able to. Get outta there as fast as possible
so maybe tell them that lmao
I’m not sure what to go to graduate school for after my undergrad in psych. Any recommendation that are not ABA?
@@tessreno6997 Hey! I'm currently in a Masters of Social Work program after an undergrad in psych.
Social work is good if you want to be a mental health practitioner. Less time needed to get the degree and it's much more widely applicable than a Masters in Psych, which is basically just a stepping stone to a PhD and working in research. Overall, though, I'd recommend not going into grad school until you have a solid feeling on what you want. It's a lot of time and money to commit and you're really in no rush. Getting a few years of practical experience in something like research would only help.
@@aleaaerktyka1052 there’s nothing i can do. my mom is paying for it and i’m a minor, so i have to do what she says. i’ve tried telling HER, but she won’t listen to me.
Paige, I want to thank you for helping me teach better. I'm a nanny who recently started caring for an autistic kid who's in ABA therapy. I noticed that when i pick him up from therapy, some of the employees talk about the kid like he's not there and stimming is treated as bad even if it's not hurting anyone. After watching your videos, you've helped me realize that I also need to work on how I need to more fricking patient. Getting things done doesn't have to happen on the schedule in my mind and I shouldn't assume that he didn't hear me or understand me if he doesn't start doing something RIGHT AWAY. Wow, there are some things I would hate about myself if I were an autistic kid.
I love your comment about the least transitions possible. Makes total sense! And that’s why this therapy makes no sense. Only one of them million reasons it doesn’t make sense.
At about 10:30 just a chill ran down my spine as I remembered every painful, shameful EMBARASSING time my parent told me to stop it, shut up, be quiet when I was expressing joy. It was crushing every time it happened. It took until age 11 or 12 but I finally learned that I was not supposed to be happy.
Paige, you are (and I mean it very much) one of the best autism activists in the world. Everything you say in the video that criticises ABA makes me feel confident in my lifestyle and in my own personality. LOVE YOU and thank you very much for publishing this amazing yet serious video 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩!!
Seeing this video made me cry because of because of the way Abby is treated and the fact they talk about her as if she isn’t there. No accommodations are made and she gets touched a lot. Hate being touch at random and from behind without warning. I am a very huggy person and I love to hug ( sometimes too much). They took away her iPad aka her communication tool that to me was the worst part. They think that it is ok to do that just because she can’t talk. It is not ok period.
This is very helpful insight. I've always been apprehensive about ABA. We finally after 6 years of wait list got the Ontario funding for ABA and I was able to find some BCBA's that feel the way I do. They don't do the things I'm seeing in this example. They make the sessions fun for Cruz and we work on learning things that focus on specific goals like learning what is safe or not safe. How to tell people your parent's name and address (since he likes to wander). We don't have breaks, or demands or work. And every learning experience is blended into doing activities that he chooses or wants to do.
I do appreciate all the insights you're offering Paige, and yes, I've seen some of these videos and questioned a lot of the same things that you've made much clearer. It's so hard to determine what Autism is. Cruz loves touching and being touched (at times). He asks for arm tickles or back massages.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts as an autistic person. I have zero knowledge on this and I haven’t met any autistic people but I’m glad I know this because I wouldn’t want to offend them. 💜
Dear Paige.... I don't like when kids get picked on.... I seriously believe while watching this vlog the parents are be-littling their daughter and by touching their daughter it can be seen -- by ME -- as being physical, rude and harmful on an emotional level... the end... Always in Good Tastse.... Be Supportive and Suscribe... CHEERS!
Okay so I love your videos and I think the way you explain things are super helpful. I subscribed/found you through your other videos about ABA actually. I work as a Behavior Tech for ABA and I’m only 11 minutes into this current video and I’m already super, super into agreement of you. I’m super fucking angry with how everything is going. I cannot stand this dad either and also posting things about your CHILD online is wild. Also, parents interjecting during sessions is awful. Im eager to continue watching. I have younger sisters on the spectrum and that’s why I entered into this field, to find out what is going on, to help/protect my youngest sister. OKAY so just right into this session, I’m already livid as well. I’m in complete agreement with you as well. Oh. My. Gosh.
You can agree with Paige until you’re blue in the face. That doesn’t make your job ethical. All ABA is based on abusive pseudoscience, including the ABA you practice.
Fundamentally ABA is not a good therapy.
Study RDI therapy instead (Not to be confused with DIR floortime therapy, which is also good but in a different way.)
talking about the kid like they're not in the room is hugeeee in aba. I'm really glad you made this video. I have been sad and upset for Abbey for years now. I cannot believe what her family has done to her. so sad.
Thank you VERY MUCH for this video! Recently I saw a lot of tiktoks with ABA therapy that is heavily promoted in my country and god I feel so mad yet powerless. Its so frustrating bc thats the only support autistic children get here, and I get so angry when then the parents scream and touch their children, meaning that they're implementing the "tools" learned in therapy, its horrible.
So many ppl seem to dehumanize any person that can’t communicate in a way they recognize. The dad and the therapist talk about Abby like she’s not there bc they don’t think of her as a person, they don’t apply any theory of mind to her bc they don’t think she has a mind in the way they do, so they don’t consider how she might feel.
My thoughts on this
Does he think that because she’s autistic… that means she can’t understand the words he’s saying? Like, literally talking about her as if she’s a dog and can’t understand that she’s being talked about like she’s not there. If I were her, I would feel so humiliated all the time.
“Breaks aren’t unlimited.” Wow. Oh my freaking god. When I go to the dentist, I often need to take breaks due to overstimulation. My dentist and hygienists are SO understanding. Limiting breaks is freaking weird????? Like, I’d freak the fuck out and put so much brain power into rationing my breaks????? Like, ABA is supposed to be THERAPY. If I need a break in a therapy session, my therapist is like: okay, let’s talk about your special interest for a bit. If I were to start taking “excessive” breaks, she’d be like: okay, are you having a lot of trouble talking about this? Do you want to do a shorter session today?” Like… LIMITED BREAKS FOR SUPPOSED THERAPY IS INFURIATING
“You need to take that away from your ear, that’s too much.” WHY??? WHY DO YOU CARE THAT SHES DOING THAT SHES NOT HURTING ANYONE BY DOING THAT. And the little upset sound she made as she put it down IMMEDIATELY broke my heart. Before my parents learned I was autistic and what that meant, I made that sound all the time. I felt that. I almost guarantee she wants to cry but knows she’d get in trouble if she did.
Bro I haven’t even gotten to the ABA session yet 💀I’m already pissed.
(Also, I agree with Paige, here. Filming a therapy session makes it no longer therapy. It’s a performance, at that point. And watching your kid’s therapy session is just… so weird. Like… wtf, man.)
(Had to split this into parts because TH-cam has a secret character limit for comments.)
LMAO WHY DID SHE JUST THROW THE PILLOW ON HER??? Like, I know autistic people like pressure but that’s a pillow that won’t do shit lol You couldn’t ask her if she wants the pillow or not? Aren’t you supposed to be helping her communicate? I canttttt
She’s trying to communicate that she doesn’t want to do this right now, which is one of the things that ABA says they want to encourage, and they’re just… not caring. Great.
(Also TIL that autistics hating transitions is the entire reason I despise doing laundry lol Paige teaching me about myself yet again XD)
Omg she’s crowding her and touching her I would get SO uncomfortable omg what the actual-
And why does she keep moving her hands, is she stopping her from stimming??? And what is this weird fusion of verbal language and sign language she’s doing???? Is that supposed to help???? Bro she’s not a dog!!
I swear, the next time someone is like “but I do ✨good ABA✨” I’m gonna ask them if they touch the kids or readjust their hands because that is something I’ve seen in EVERY ABA video and it’s so gross
And that therapist is being so hot and cold??? Like, she’s so menacing when telling Abby to put her jeans away, but she acts so friendly when she lets her have the break??? I would be so annoyed and confused and overwhelmed. You shouldn’t grow to hate your therapist, man. If I was Abby, I would hate that woman lol
(Also 1000% agree with Paige, it’s the illusion of autonomy.)
That poor girl probably spent her entire “break” mentally preparing to put her pants away. And that ABA therapist probably feels so successful but that poor girl is hurting inside. I know it because I’ve been there.
(“If capitalism met junior kindergarten” LMFAO)
(Also, agreed, Paige. If that therapist had touched me after all that crap I absolutely would have at least smacked her hand away)
GOD if I had to go through this therapy I would feel so stupid and broken and useless. Poor Abby…
The three things I hate most as an autistic person are what ABA is. Fake joy/praise, lack of flexibility, unwanted physical contact.
(Yet again Paige teaching me about myself, I’ve always half hated “Good job” / “good girl” style praise but I’ve forced myself to recompute it into praise??? Doesn’t help that half the time my parents don’t mean it lmfao)
OMG THE THERAPIST AND HER DAD MANIPULATING HER LIMBS IS SO INFURIATING. HONESTLY IM NOT SUPER TOUCH SENSITIVE BUT I H A T E WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO MOVE MY BODY FOR ME GRAAAHHH
(“Good wipeout, take a minute” Paige, I aspire to be like you lmao Can you teach a parenting class? I didn’t learn shit about how to respond to anything healthily from my parents lol)
Oh god now they’re making her vacuum. Autism. The disorder that is infamous for making you more sensitive to sound. The solution? FORCED EXPOSURE OF COURSE /s
“See? Your breaks are all gone” BITCH SHES NOT STUPID OR BLIND, SHES AUTISTIC
BRO YOU DID NOT JUST TAKE AWAY HER COMMUNICATION DEVICE BECAUSE SHE WAS REFUSING TO VACUUM OH MY GOD-
Oh my god. The force behind her stims while she’s vacuuming really shows how much discomfort she is going through. She’s fucking crying, man. You’re not teaching her how to vacuum, you’re teaching her that you don’t care when she’s in pain.
And the floor isn’t even dirty??? Like, c’mon man…
(Yet more demonstration as to how I’m not a touch sensitive autistic, I actually don’t mind shoes lol I actually quite like very tight shoes, they make me feel snug lol Not every autistic is like me, tho, and forcing her to wear shoes when she doesn’t have to is just… ugh)
“Look at this wonderful food!” None of that food looks good to me. I am a taste-sensitive autistic with ARFID, bro. 1. That chicken looks dry (the only chicken I can eat is damn near undercooked, it’s a texture thing) 2. That is way too many things??? On one plate??? 3. THÉ FOOD IS *TOUCHING* 4. I guarantee that is way too many smells 5. So… many… different… foods… 6. 90% of foods other people like, I hate. Saying “this is such wonderful food” will not convince me to eat it 7. Are those mushrooms? (Aka, Bad Texture)
God, she probably feels so hungry and left out and sad…
(Honestly Paige, I wish you were my mom. Not in a weird way? In a “I would’ve felt so much more loved” way. I remember the first time that someone offered to just… make me a sandwich instead of forcing me to eat what everyone else was eating. I was so stunned)
“Mad about going to their house, mad about going home” *acts baffled* ITS ALMOST LIKE AUTISTICS STRUGGLE WITH TRANSITIONS OR SOMETHING
Wow, what a roller coaster. Those obviously fake “Good job!”s are so patronizing. I hate it so much.
(Apologies for the kinda random comment lengths, I sorta divided them arbitrarily)
@georgerobins4110 and...she doesn't get any choice about what goes on her plate? Geez...I gave my kids more choices at 3-4 years of age than this girl gets.
Thank you for making this video! Im a former ABA therapist and left because of how abusive it was in my experience for Autistic children. I will say that this form of ABA was very common. We are taught not to talk about the Autistic children in front of them as if they aren't there but it still ran rampant and I felt like because of how a lot of these lessons are more so obedience training, it created a very toxic dynamic. Touching Autistic children unnecessairly in ABA was very common unfortunately, especially because of the prompting procedures so like when you teach something to an Autistic person for the first time they want you to help them, "hand over hand". Also, you can notice this ABAs therapist body language is very dominant and is too comfortable being that way seeing how she is towering over Abigail, touching her, putting the pillow on her like that, another dynamic that I feel occurs because of how we are taught to do ABA, she could also possibly be burned out. I experienced some better forms of ABA with only one BCBA who was neurodivergent in which she would encourage for lessons to be functional and actually make sense so for learning how to dress we would have to create a situation where we had to change clothes like playing with water balloons(usually it was something the child wanted to do), she taught us to never take the AAC device and worked on providing accommodations when we noticed the child needed it. She was the only one to actually listen to all of my concerns and update the teaching style according to new developments and listening to Autistic people but that was only one BCBA out of 10 that I worked with. One thing you said about ABA being capitalism for a daycare is an exact thought I had before! If we didn't have capitalism things like ABA would not be created. I wanted to add some more things for context, parents are encouraged to be in the same room just for safety purposes but it can definitely become a micro managing session when parents are staring the entire time and reprimanding but honestly its better for parents to be watching because you never know, I often encouraged parents to be present just because there have been cases of child abuse before. Sessions are usually 3 - 4 hrs so sometimes therapists feel pressured to do lessons incorrectly since we are monitored for how many tasks we do for hour, in the first company I worked in we had to do 100 tasks per HOUR in a session. Some therapist get payed as little as 12 dollars an hour and drive over an hour to two hours a day for sessions so it's all just a really broken system. Not to mention how ABA affects other therapies such as ST, PT and OT. Also, none of what im saying is to defend ABA. I merely want to provide context and talk about my experience to help others who may still be on the fence about ABA.If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.