There is a MUCH easier fix for the pads. I've been fixing Atari 5200 controllers and remote controls for 30 years using my method. Take the pad and drag it (LIGHTLY) across a piece of copy paper. The first time it will leave a dark mark. By the 3rd time, it won't leave a mark at all and then it will work fine. I have literally never had one that wasn't fixed with this method.
@@chrisjones8741 It will eventually have to be redone, just like you had to do it the first time. They will eventually become dirty and smoothed over. But that is true of the method in the video and even brand new ones.
I've done a lot of PET keyboard repairs and never had to use any paste. A good clean, any wipe down until the contacts are dull, and it all works. When they get shinny, they have issues. Thanks for sharing
The MSDS sheet ("Anders Products Keypad Fix" msds) shows it's mostly PVA (white glue) water (potentially part of the white glue too) and graphite (16% w/w). Not far off with your closing thoughts!
I recently had to do this same thing, but only on 2 pads. I didn't have any of that conductive paint, so I used a tiny dab of silicone RTV and a small bit of aluminum tape. The RTV glued the aluminum tape to the silicone dome. Everything worked. 40 year old device, so let's see if I can get 40 more!
I'd like to see a long term followup, how does it hold up after a week, a month, 6 months, and year(s) after application. I tried the silver stuff, but it kept flaking off and making a big mess.
I've used this product for years for keyboards and remotes. Works wonders. I usually put it on like you did and then afterwards I do the other method that some describe here with dragging it across a copy paper. Very gently and only once or so. It will leave blacks stuff behind on the paper but that is just the graphite sanding off. Once I get a smooth matt surface (not shiny), I know its done. No bumps or cracks like your semicolon key showed here. The biggest problem I've found is that the older the unused product gets, the more clumps it gets and its harder and harder to get the clumps out.. You'll end up throwing it away after 3-4 years and buying a new one, even thought you have like 99% of it left =) And from what I've been told, when you used IPA and a cotton swab on the rubber, the black is the graphite coming off. You don't want that really. If there is enough graphics left, just gently drag it once over a copy paper to remove any crap on them and remove a very fine layer of graphite. Basically, as soon as its not shiny anymore, its fine to go. Only if that does not help should you use the keypadfix product. At least that has worked for me for years.
I do this same process to all my video game controllers and it's amazing the difference. I always think they seem fine but I'll do it anyway until I do it and then it's like night and day at how responsive the games feel after.
Yeah skin contact also has some odd effects on plastic. I never knew just how bad the oil on our skin ate away at plastic until I started wearing glasses a few years ago.
@@RisingRevengeance I know what you mean. I just got a new pair that use silicone nose pads. Hopefully they don't get all skanky like the plastic ones.
If I understand correctly, there's "been a product" for it for decades, it's just that it's also used to produce _some_ (because there's several options, including "we mixed it ourselves" and "we bought them pre-formed") of the originals, and traditionally it just would have been used by repair techs anyways (and half the time they just ordered a new keyboard because that was the _cheap_ part, and those guys basically switched to _always_ replacing keyboards back in the 90s, so no TH-cam traces of most of their work).
4 หลายเดือนก่อน +41
Just my 2 cents, maybe using a Cue-Tip was not the best idea, as far as dosage goes. A long tooth pick would have dispensed a more consistent quantity.
I was trying to follow the directions to a T to have the most "recommended" experience possible. Their directions call out a cotton swap specifically: keypadfix.com/sample-page/ From the experience of using it, I would say that once mixed it is probably too thin to try to apply with a toothpick. I had thought that before starting as well, but it is nothing like a spreadable paste. I'm guessing it is down the the fluid carrier for the conductive material that needs to evaporate quickly.
@@TechTangents I've used this same product before on C64 keyboards that I had previously cleaned the carbon off the pads using isopropyl. I think its a reasonably good product, and I applied it the way you did, and as you've said, you've gotten pretty good results. What is your failure on 100 keys? 2? But also, I have to wonder if adhesive copper pads might work just as well if not better on the bottom of commodore keyboard rubbers, because the problem with the carbon, as you so eloquently mentioned, can be easily fractured with board or contact flex, where as aluminium and copper have a certain elasticity before deformation or stretching occurs, and both a carbon or a copper solution is only going to be as good as the glue adhering it to the pad that I assumed is doped with carbon during manufacture, so there is little you can do to bring it back. And that in-turn makes me wonder if the solution isn't just to remanufacture new carbon pads and maybe the keyboard posts/flexible pads since 3D printed prototyping is so available and the real issue is that soft plastics break down and are sort of disposable iliability n the same way that CRT phosphors can't be re-invigorated.
I use Aluminium coated paper (that you may find in chewing gum packing and such) and glue the paper side to the pads using liquid multipurpose glue (not cyanoacrylate based just ordinary one) it works good enough for me.
I'm suspecting it's probably some kind of graphite suspension. If you get a good feel for how to apply it, it could be a great way to get a consistent coat. Perhaps using a wooden or plastic stick instead of an absorbent cotton swab could yield more consistent results, or maybe a small brush. The upside to using a pencil is that it's easy, the downside is that it's impure (because pencil lead is mixed with clay) so it could wear very inconsistently and one button might fail quickly by chance of the mixture at that point in the pencil. Another option is using graphite powder, commonly sold as a lubricant for hinges and other things, but the downside is that it's messy. That paste sounds like it could be a really good and simple option with a bit of practise and/or some more thorough instructions for how to best apply it. I'm not sure a cotton swab is the best option when you go over the same area more than once as it may thin some parts out too much by reabsorbing some of what you just put down unless it's still thoroughly soaked.
For my PETs I've always managed fine with either the copy paper technique, rubbing each pad with a soft graphite pencil or just a good clean with IPA. However, my Tandata PA's keyboard was eaten by battery alkali so I (with a lot of help, cheers Thilo) designed a new keyboard PCB. The old pads are still there though so I've been looking at these graphite type paints as a solution for the few keys that refuse to work. Your experience is interesting, thanks for the video!
If one is to use pencil lead, head over to your local graphic arts supply shop and buy several lead pencils that have the softest lead in them. The lead will not have much of the clay in it that prohibits the carbon rich lead that one needs. As a retired architect I remember using mechanical pencils that used a 2 millimeter diameter lead stick and we sharpened them in a special "pencil pointer" as they were called back in the day. After six months of continuous drawing at the drafting table we would empty this fine dust. If I only knew then I would have saved it in a pill bottle for use today in my ham radio keypads that Yaesu has conveniently has discontinued. Planned obsolescence.
I dare say to wipe down the contact plates on the keyboard matrix board with some "De Oxit" electronics cleaner. Then pour a bit of it on the 6522s or 6525s interface adapter pins to ensure their connection.
Instead of a pencil I would recommend graphite lock cylinder lubricant rubbed into a piece of paper in the same way. Pencil graphite has clay in it to give it strength. That may cause it to wear down faster or it might keep the contacts clean because of the abrasion I can't say, but it will affect it's conductivity. If it doesn't work you can always go back.
I used "Bare" conductive paint to do this before. It lasted a few years before the keys started getting flaky again. (It was on a label maker that got fairly regular to heavy use.)
Crt tubes are coated with dag. There is a product called aquadag. This might work well though no clue on durability as in CRTs it doesn't undergo mechanical stress.
Is it possible some of your coatings weren't flat enough? 26:36 I can see two pads in the shot that have divots in them which may effect the copper surfaces they come in contact with.
I tried a similar, if not identical product many years ago for remotes. At the time it was just people taking rear window defogger repair paint and taking off the label to sell online. Those gave instructions to use a paper matchstick to apply, but that too was always just as inconsistent, and over time with lots of use can actually wear off and transfer over, caking onto the PCB contacts so they're always 'on.' I'm betting not much has changed in the mix since then. I actually had better luck using a punch to cut out small discs from copper/aluminium tape, but even that didn't last forever. Maybe there's a good adhesive/coating that can prevent the leeching oils from making the tape not adhere over time.
I've used conductive paint pens to bring keys back to life. I would just clean off the dead keys and try them again. If it's supposed to take 2 hrs to dry and it's drying in 30 seconds, maybe the coats aren't thick enough.
If that is solved in water, my guess would be you want the pad uniformly wet, like a good blob of it. Like with paints, most of the paint is water that simply evaporates, and those too take about 1-2 hours to dry. I don't think a cotton swab is the best tool for that. Maybe a dropper, or a filled paint brush.
My grandpa had one of these PET computers. I remember doing a program to generate all the five-letter words that were possible from the alphabet. I earned that $1.
I appreciate you reminding us each time you use your vacuum on a circuit board. Even though I know you grounded it I still feel my skin crawl when you do it.
I'm surprised you didn't start by researching the old 8-Bit Guy video where he does the same PET keyboard repair. I think his keyboard fixer was a metallic conductive paint... Similar method and results.
I did use silver conductive paint on rubber contacts in game controllers and remotes. I am not entirely happy with the outcome, the service life is low. I use rear defroster repair fluid, also sold here as Kemo L100. I have now been preferring the pencil treatment. I do like using the silver paint to repair membrane keyboards, but then i notice i haven't been using membrane keyboards in a very long time. I have just noticed that i have a tub of Anders Wire Glue and i'm not sure whether i tried that, or why i didn't do that. It's basically similar to this product in this video. Oh it's made by the same company!
Those little carbon contacts are common in game controllers; I've always cleaned them with a q-tip and isopropyl alcohol, rubbing them just enough that they are dark black afterward, and not shiny or dusty. I've also heard of rubbing them on paper or some other surface to do the same thing. Occasionally though some don't have much carbon on them and it could come off altogether.
from fixing TV remotes, it seems finger oil (and popcorn oil!) migrates through silicone. the most-used buttons like channel up/down and volume and power are always by far the worst. there's a glaze of oil that forms on just those buttons underneath them, and the oil just effectively insulates it. I clean the PCB with windex on a paper towel until all the oil is removed, then wash the elastomer part in hot soap and water to remove the oil from it, then reassemble. this totally fixes it for another year or two until the oil builds up again. NES and SNES controllers suffer from this problem on the select/start buttons, but not the A/B/X/Y buttons, because the latter have plastic buttons on top of the rubber while select/start do not. some fine grit sandpaper can revitalize the conductive rubber on old keyboards and keypads if it's just dry rotted and not actually covered with oils.
Interesting hypothesis. My feeling is, it can't possibly be making its way through the silicone, that seems absurd. Perhaps there is more surface erosion that encourages polymer breakdown on heavily used keys. It's conceivable that the oil absorbed on the surface end of the key causes release of more mobile compounds that cause the breakdown on the other end chemically, but the possibility appears very very remote, but it might be possible. I wonder if a remote control that has been used in a plastic bag (as some people do) and thus insulated from any chemical contact from hands breaks down in the same way, with the same release of oily product, that would be a possible test for this family of hypothesis. As to the Nintendo controller well the hard buttons and the soft buttons are also bound to experience different wear properties for purely mechanical reasons. You can press the soft ones in as far as you dare, while hard button caps stop against the pcb-silicone sandwich and prevent further pressure on the dome and carbon pill. There is also likely more side to side movement of the carbon pill on the soft buttons as it touches the PCB than on hard capped buttons, as the actuator in the cap is free to slide across the top surface of the dome, while you're forcing soft button pills to go in whichever direction with your grippy fingers.
I've tried to use this stuff for another project (not this specific product but it's sold under many names). I found the conductivity got worse as it dried, and after around 24 hours it was completely non-conductive. It even started flaking off a bit depending on the surface. I'm not sure if there's something we're both doing wrong in the application process, but I'll say it's at least not a very reliable method or product.
It's basically the same thing as the Aquadag they put as a conductive layer on CRT's. You can brew up your own.. any thin binder and graphite powder (file down the rod from inside a zinc-carbon battery is a good source) I have had the most success using the metallic inks from paint pens thinned with the appropriate solvent (smell is good)
@@PaulaXism Hey i should harvest some of those rods maybe for use as electrodes in plating and such. I know they're in there, the thought just never crossed my mind. But you can also just drop by a bicycle store (or home improvement store), they sell graphite powder as a dry lubricant in a bottle.
i like glob mop brand swabs for cleaning, they tend to last longer per swab. found out about them from a head shop but use them for everything now. you can get ones that bend and ones that don't but the wooden handle on the standard ones is very strong for scrubbing and the tips can hold alot of gunk
Lightly use a pen eraser to clean the copper pads. Use one of your wife's cosmetic foam wedges from the dollar store to apply carbon from a wax paper sheet like a stamp pad. Use a hole punch on a card 3x5 and use that as a mask.
Massive coincidence, I needed to learn how to do this to fix my KORG music keyboard. I took it apart once and cleaned the pads and it got worse@! so i knew I need to put some kind of coating on it but i didnt know what
I had an old Holborn computer. The keys were foam and an aluminium pad. I used a thermal blanket and new foam. Had to cut it for every key but that worked perfect!
Oh a repair of a foam-and-foil keyboard was on this very channel 5 years ago! He bought ready made foam and foil replacement pills. As did Adrian Black for his repair. I'm sure someone else made their own. Can't remember who. I'd be too tempted to make my own, given i have a full set of hole punches and most of the things, and if i'm missing something i can buy it locally and don't have to order anything from abroad, unlike the repair kit.
When you’re wiping the pcb with “alcohol” do you mean isopropyl? Because i find it sometimes dissolves the solder mask, especially on vintage boards, and the dissolved soldermask smears onto unmasked areas. Have you not had that issue or are you using something else?
I think the general point is IPA is very good at cleaning. But also quite good at eating things. So occasional, sparing use (especially when it's gunked up enough to need a proper clean) is fine. But some people like to overdo things, if you clean it every 2 months, with a soaking swab and it's going to fail much sooner.
I think when you're rubbing with iso, you're also taking the uppermost loosened layer of carbon with it. Pads excessively cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and not otherwise treated eventually cease working. I also doubt that there's any platiciser in the polymer? I mean if it's silicone, then it couldn't and wouldn't have any, it's merely suffering reversal and falling back into shorter chain polymers and original synthesis products. There's a handful plastics that are used with plasticisers, foremost of them PVC, but sticking a PVC piece onto a silicone piece or any rubber would be a little challenging, and the bond likely wouldn't hold up over 30 years particularly well, these should all be silicone including the contact pads ("carbon pills"). It does happen that manufacturers don't know what they're talking about. Like fundamentally anything you glue onto something, if it's got plasticiser in it, unless the material that you're gluing onto is soluble in that plasticiser and can weld itself onto it perfectly, it's going to just leak into the joint and debond it.
Recently tried a similar product to restore the buttons on an Agilent 54622D oscilloscope. Work's a treat for now but we'll see how it fares for long-term efficacy.
Perhaps the owner can search out a MSDS for the product - it could very well be graphite/carbon in a volatile suspension, especially if it's a bit whiffy while drying.
Wonder if this stuff would work on earlier Alps integrated dome switches used in the TRS-80 Model 4. I've been dreading working on mine as each and every keyswitch would have to be desoldered and disassembled to get to the dome contacts...really wish they hadn't changed the keyboard mechanism from the Model 3.
too bad the individual domes of many modern cheapo keyboards are a bit too big I think. a lot of modern cheapo keyboards like nubwo and the 100 other brand names for them (not logitech cheapos though, but the cheapos that have leds, in like 10 bucks range) have a pcb and all the buttons have their own rubber dome with a conductive thing in the middle, nigh impossible to get them back at their places if you take one open to clean. the feel isn't too bad actually.
Aparently Tech guy ain’t talking to his chat (Unsubscribed)… Anyway I found it, It’s a push top alcohol dispenser… McMaster has a really nice amber glass one with locking lid for something like 43.00…
You could check out Jensen Tools if they are still around. Their price on the push top dispenser might be a bit lower. Also take note, I have seen these dispensers in doctors offices, the original users of these items but one needs to find a medical supply company or a lab ware supply company that might stock them.
I could see this being a pretty good solution (as long as it holds up) with better directions. In hindsight now that I've done this and had some more time to think about it, I think it could be worthwhile to do a test of putting it on some aluminum foil like you were painting a key to see how it dries with a more visible surface. That may be enlightening on what a better application method would be.
Or just get some copper or aluminum tape and cut some tiny strips or circles, and stick em on there, usually you'll find this from HVAC supply for duct work It's just a switch, computer doesn't really care how you complete the circuit Not dealing large amounts of current Maybe 20ma or less
I was thinking of BT/MGChemical's 8[4/3]__ series of conductive {carbon , silver, nickel, copper, etc} coatings including aerosols and 'pens' ... Though visiting their website, I see that they discontinued their carbon keypad-repair kit when they phased out toluene ... along with their urethane-solvent options (except silver). Wait a minute... the ad-copy for the kit they discontinued (because toluene) boasts that it's "acceptable", and includes a primer. I'd assumed that brittle 1L squeeze bottle was _was_ their kit. :/ I'm now questioning if the lid on the bottle (I was handed) didn't fit properly because the bottle was broken, or if the bottle was broken from someone making a lid that didn't fit at all _to_ (since I saw them take turns trying to do the same with the water-indicating paint until the bottle split...)
I bet there's a market for old electronics repair, but I doubt it pays enough for anyone in the US to do it as more than a side thing. Maybe we just don't value old electronics enough, yet.
You were way to sparse with the coating. You should have dipped the swab directly into the container and left enough liquid on the surface so a surface tension was crated. Diasasemble and redo the work. Sloppy work is terrible!!!
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
There is a MUCH easier fix for the pads. I've been fixing Atari 5200 controllers and remote controls for 30 years using my method. Take the pad and drag it (LIGHTLY) across a piece of copy paper. The first time it will leave a dark mark. By the 3rd time, it won't leave a mark at all and then it will work fine. I have literally never had one that wasn't fixed with this method.
Cool! Does that fix last a long time, or have you had to repeat it after some use?
@@chrisjones8741 It will eventually have to be redone, just like you had to do it the first time. They will eventually become dirty and smoothed over. But that is true of the method in the video and even brand new ones.
This is interesting! What is it actually doing?
@@kramerdesign9443 Resurfacing them.
@@tarstarkusz thanks for clarifying, I'm going to give it a try!
I've done a lot of PET keyboard repairs and never had to use any paste. A good clean, any wipe down until the contacts are dull, and it all works. When they get shinny, they have issues. Thanks for sharing
The MSDS sheet ("Anders Products Keypad Fix" msds) shows it's mostly PVA (white glue) water (potentially part of the white glue too) and graphite (16% w/w). Not far off with your closing thoughts!
I recently had to do this same thing, but only on 2 pads. I didn't have any of that conductive paint, so I used a tiny dab of silicone RTV and a small bit of aluminum tape. The RTV glued the aluminum tape to the silicone dome. Everything worked. 40 year old device, so let's see if I can get 40 more!
I'd like to see a long term followup, how does it hold up after a week, a month, 6 months, and year(s) after application. I tried the silver stuff, but it kept flaking off and making a big mess.
I've used this product for years for keyboards and remotes. Works wonders. I usually put it on like you did and then afterwards I do the other method that some describe here with dragging it across a copy paper. Very gently and only once or so. It will leave blacks stuff behind on the paper but that is just the graphite sanding off.
Once I get a smooth matt surface (not shiny), I know its done. No bumps or cracks like your semicolon key showed here.
The biggest problem I've found is that the older the unused product gets, the more clumps it gets and its harder and harder to get the clumps out.. You'll end up throwing it away after 3-4 years and buying a new one, even thought you have like 99% of it left =)
And from what I've been told, when you used IPA and a cotton swab on the rubber, the black is the graphite coming off. You don't want that really. If there is enough graphics left, just gently drag it once over a copy paper to remove any crap on them and remove a very fine layer of graphite. Basically, as soon as its not shiny anymore, its fine to go.
Only if that does not help should you use the keypadfix product. At least that has worked for me for years.
I do this same process to all my video game controllers and it's amazing the difference. I always think they seem fine but I'll do it anyway until I do it and then it's like night and day at how responsive the games feel after.
I've cleaned a lot of remotes and always assumed the oil was from hands touching it. It's cool there's a specific product for this issue now
Yeah skin contact also has some odd effects on plastic. I never knew just how bad the oil on our skin ate away at plastic until I started wearing glasses a few years ago.
@@RisingRevengeance I know what you mean. I just got a new pair that use silicone nose pads. Hopefully they don't get all skanky like the plastic ones.
If I understand correctly, there's "been a product" for it for decades, it's just that it's also used to produce _some_ (because there's several options, including "we mixed it ourselves" and "we bought them pre-formed") of the originals, and traditionally it just would have been used by repair techs anyways (and half the time they just ordered a new keyboard because that was the _cheap_ part, and those guys basically switched to _always_ replacing keyboards back in the 90s, so no TH-cam traces of most of their work).
Just my 2 cents, maybe using a Cue-Tip was not the best idea, as far as dosage goes. A long tooth pick would have dispensed a more consistent quantity.
I was trying to follow the directions to a T to have the most "recommended" experience possible. Their directions call out a cotton swap specifically: keypadfix.com/sample-page/
From the experience of using it, I would say that once mixed it is probably too thin to try to apply with a toothpick. I had thought that before starting as well, but it is nothing like a spreadable paste. I'm guessing it is down the the fluid carrier for the conductive material that needs to evaporate quickly.
@@TechTangents Maybe a small pipette/syringe or something? Or would that be too much liquid and thus uncontrollable
@@james_s60that's already a fair bit more dedicated than either a toothpick or cotton swab though 😮
small paint brush.
@@TechTangents I've used this same product before on C64 keyboards that I had previously cleaned the carbon off the pads using isopropyl. I think its a reasonably good product, and I applied it the way you did, and as you've said, you've gotten pretty good results. What is your failure on 100 keys? 2?
But also, I have to wonder if adhesive copper pads might work just as well if not better on the bottom of commodore keyboard rubbers, because the problem with the carbon, as you so eloquently mentioned, can be easily fractured with board or contact flex, where as aluminium and copper have a certain elasticity before deformation or stretching occurs, and both a carbon or a copper solution is only going to be as good as the glue adhering it to the pad that I assumed is doped with carbon during manufacture, so there is little you can do to bring it back.
And that in-turn makes me wonder if the solution isn't just to remanufacture new carbon pads and maybe the keyboard posts/flexible pads since 3D printed prototyping is so available and the real issue is that soft plastics break down and are sort of disposable iliability n the same way that CRT phosphors can't be re-invigorated.
I use Aluminium coated paper (that you may find in chewing gum packing and such) and glue the paper side to the pads using liquid multipurpose glue (not cyanoacrylate based just ordinary one) it works good enough for me.
I'm suspecting it's probably some kind of graphite suspension.
If you get a good feel for how to apply it, it could be a great way to get a consistent coat. Perhaps using a wooden or plastic stick instead of an absorbent cotton swab could yield more consistent results, or maybe a small brush.
The upside to using a pencil is that it's easy, the downside is that it's impure (because pencil lead is mixed with clay) so it could wear very inconsistently and one button might fail quickly by chance of the mixture at that point in the pencil.
Another option is using graphite powder, commonly sold as a lubricant for hinges and other things, but the downside is that it's messy.
That paste sounds like it could be a really good and simple option with a bit of practise and/or some more thorough instructions for how to best apply it. I'm not sure a cotton swab is the best option when you go over the same area more than once as it may thin some parts out too much by reabsorbing some of what you just put down unless it's still thoroughly soaked.
Or I could be completely wrong about all of that. Just some reflections. 🙂
I trust the comments to inform me about what I've missed or got wrong.
For my PETs I've always managed fine with either the copy paper technique, rubbing each pad with a soft graphite pencil or just a good clean with IPA. However, my Tandata PA's keyboard was eaten by battery alkali so I (with a lot of help, cheers Thilo) designed a new keyboard PCB. The old pads are still there though so I've been looking at these graphite type paints as a solution for the few keys that refuse to work. Your experience is interesting, thanks for the video!
I love niche products like this
If one is to use pencil lead, head over to your local graphic arts supply shop and buy several lead pencils that have the softest lead in them. The lead will not have much of the clay in it that prohibits the carbon rich lead that one needs. As a retired architect I remember using mechanical pencils that used a 2 millimeter diameter lead stick and we sharpened them in a special "pencil pointer" as they were called back in the day. After six months of continuous drawing at the drafting table we would empty this fine dust. If I only knew then I would have saved it in a pill bottle for use today in my ham radio keypads that Yaesu has conveniently has discontinued. Planned obsolescence.
I dare say to wipe down the contact plates on the keyboard matrix board with some "De Oxit" electronics cleaner. Then pour a bit of it on the 6522s or 6525s interface adapter pins to ensure their connection.
Instead of a pencil I would recommend graphite lock cylinder lubricant rubbed into a piece of paper in the same way. Pencil graphite has clay in it to give it strength. That may cause it to wear down faster or it might keep the contacts clean because of the abrasion I can't say, but it will affect it's conductivity. If it doesn't work you can always go back.
I used "Bare" conductive paint to do this before. It lasted a few years before the keys started getting flaky again. (It was on a label maker that got fairly regular to heavy use.)
Fujitsu issued me with the same vacuum !
Crt tubes are coated with dag. There is a product called aquadag. This might work well though no clue on durability as in CRTs it doesn't undergo mechanical stress.
Is it possible some of your coatings weren't flat enough? 26:36 I can see two pads in the shot that have divots in them which may effect the copper surfaces they come in contact with.
I tried a similar, if not identical product many years ago for remotes. At the time it was just people taking rear window defogger repair paint and taking off the label to sell online. Those gave instructions to use a paper matchstick to apply, but that too was always just as inconsistent, and over time with lots of use can actually wear off and transfer over, caking onto the PCB contacts so they're always 'on.' I'm betting not much has changed in the mix since then.
I actually had better luck using a punch to cut out small discs from copper/aluminium tape, but even that didn't last forever. Maybe there's a good adhesive/coating that can prevent the leeching oils from making the tape not adhere over time.
I've used conductive paint pens to bring keys back to life. I would just clean off the dead keys and try them again. If it's supposed to take 2 hrs to dry and it's drying in 30 seconds, maybe the coats aren't thick enough.
If that is solved in water, my guess would be you want the pad uniformly wet, like a good blob of it. Like with paints, most of the paint is water that simply evaporates, and those too take about 1-2 hours to dry. I don't think a cotton swab is the best tool for that. Maybe a dropper, or a filled paint brush.
How well it is mixed likely plays a part, too. As you’re aware, equipment that old can have several different reasons for the same problem.
My grandpa had one of these PET computers. I remember doing a program to generate all the five-letter words that were possible from the alphabet. I earned that $1.
Actual words or just every possible 5 letter combo?
They say that the NYT is still using this program to generate the Wordle to this very day.
@@jeromethiel4323 Every five letter “word” that I then had to go back and manually examine to find the real ones.
I appreciate you reminding us each time you use your vacuum on a circuit board. Even though I know you grounded it I still feel my skin crawl when you do it.
I'm surprised you didn't start by researching the old 8-Bit Guy video where he does the same PET keyboard repair.
I think his keyboard fixer was a metallic conductive paint... Similar method and results.
I did use silver conductive paint on rubber contacts in game controllers and remotes. I am not entirely happy with the outcome, the service life is low. I use rear defroster repair fluid, also sold here as Kemo L100. I have now been preferring the pencil treatment. I do like using the silver paint to repair membrane keyboards, but then i notice i haven't been using membrane keyboards in a very long time.
I have just noticed that i have a tub of Anders Wire Glue and i'm not sure whether i tried that, or why i didn't do that. It's basically similar to this product in this video. Oh it's made by the same company!
Those little carbon contacts are common in game controllers; I've always cleaned them with a q-tip and isopropyl alcohol, rubbing them just enough that they are dark black afterward, and not shiny or dusty. I've also heard of rubbing them on paper or some other surface to do the same thing. Occasionally though some don't have much carbon on them and it could come off altogether.
from fixing TV remotes, it seems finger oil (and popcorn oil!) migrates through silicone. the most-used buttons like channel up/down and volume and power are always by far the worst. there's a glaze of oil that forms on just those buttons underneath them, and the oil just effectively insulates it. I clean the PCB with windex on a paper towel until all the oil is removed, then wash the elastomer part in hot soap and water to remove the oil from it, then reassemble. this totally fixes it for another year or two until the oil builds up again. NES and SNES controllers suffer from this problem on the select/start buttons, but not the A/B/X/Y buttons, because the latter have plastic buttons on top of the rubber while select/start do not. some fine grit sandpaper can revitalize the conductive rubber on old keyboards and keypads if it's just dry rotted and not actually covered with oils.
Interesting hypothesis. My feeling is, it can't possibly be making its way through the silicone, that seems absurd. Perhaps there is more surface erosion that encourages polymer breakdown on heavily used keys. It's conceivable that the oil absorbed on the surface end of the key causes release of more mobile compounds that cause the breakdown on the other end chemically, but the possibility appears very very remote, but it might be possible. I wonder if a remote control that has been used in a plastic bag (as some people do) and thus insulated from any chemical contact from hands breaks down in the same way, with the same release of oily product, that would be a possible test for this family of hypothesis.
As to the Nintendo controller well the hard buttons and the soft buttons are also bound to experience different wear properties for purely mechanical reasons. You can press the soft ones in as far as you dare, while hard button caps stop against the pcb-silicone sandwich and prevent further pressure on the dome and carbon pill. There is also likely more side to side movement of the carbon pill on the soft buttons as it touches the PCB than on hard capped buttons, as the actuator in the cap is free to slide across the top surface of the dome, while you're forcing soft button pills to go in whichever direction with your grippy fingers.
I've tried to use this stuff for another project (not this specific product but it's sold under many names). I found the conductivity got worse as it dried, and after around 24 hours it was completely non-conductive. It even started flaking off a bit depending on the surface. I'm not sure if there's something we're both doing wrong in the application process, but I'll say it's at least not a very reliable method or product.
It's basically the same thing as the Aquadag they put as a conductive layer on CRT's. You can brew up your own.. any thin binder and graphite powder (file down the rod from inside a zinc-carbon battery is a good source) I have had the most success using the metallic inks from paint pens thinned with the appropriate solvent (smell is good)
@@PaulaXism Hey i should harvest some of those rods maybe for use as electrodes in plating and such. I know they're in there, the thought just never crossed my mind.
But you can also just drop by a bicycle store (or home improvement store), they sell graphite powder as a dry lubricant in a bottle.
i like glob mop brand swabs for cleaning, they tend to last longer per swab. found out about them from a head shop but use them for everything now. you can get ones that bend and ones that don't but the wooden handle on the standard ones is very strong for scrubbing and the tips can hold alot of gunk
Lightly use a pen eraser to clean the copper pads. Use one of your wife's cosmetic foam wedges from the dollar store to apply carbon from a wax paper sheet like a stamp pad. Use a hole punch on a card 3x5 and use that as a mask.
Massive coincidence, I needed to learn how to do this to fix my KORG music keyboard. I took it apart once and cleaned the pads and it got worse@! so i knew I need to put some kind of coating on it but i didnt know what
I had an old Holborn computer. The keys were foam and an aluminium pad. I used a thermal blanket and new foam. Had to cut it for every key but that worked perfect!
Oh a repair of a foam-and-foil keyboard was on this very channel 5 years ago! He bought ready made foam and foil replacement pills. As did Adrian Black for his repair.
I'm sure someone else made their own. Can't remember who. I'd be too tempted to make my own, given i have a full set of hole punches and most of the things, and if i'm missing something i can buy it locally and don't have to order anything from abroad, unlike the repair kit.
When you’re wiping the pcb with “alcohol” do you mean isopropyl? Because i find it sometimes dissolves the solder mask, especially on vintage boards, and the dissolved soldermask smears onto unmasked areas. Have you not had that issue or are you using something else?
I think I need to get some of that for my 64 since rebuilding it the keys seem to not work as well
I wonder if that oil on the carbon pads glued the graphite on? 🤔
been cleaning my NAD remote´s carbon pads for close to 10 years with IPA, gently. So far so good.
I think the general point is IPA is very good at cleaning. But also quite good at eating things. So occasional, sparing use (especially when it's gunked up enough to need a proper clean) is fine. But some people like to overdo things, if you clean it every 2 months, with a soaking swab and it's going to fail much sooner.
I think when you're rubbing with iso, you're also taking the uppermost loosened layer of carbon with it. Pads excessively cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and not otherwise treated eventually cease working.
I also doubt that there's any platiciser in the polymer? I mean if it's silicone, then it couldn't and wouldn't have any, it's merely suffering reversal and falling back into shorter chain polymers and original synthesis products. There's a handful plastics that are used with plasticisers, foremost of them PVC, but sticking a PVC piece onto a silicone piece or any rubber would be a little challenging, and the bond likely wouldn't hold up over 30 years particularly well, these should all be silicone including the contact pads ("carbon pills"). It does happen that manufacturers don't know what they're talking about. Like fundamentally anything you glue onto something, if it's got plasticiser in it, unless the material that you're gluing onto is soluble in that plasticiser and can weld itself onto it perfectly, it's going to just leak into the joint and debond it.
Where can I get a vacuum like that?
Recently tried a similar product to restore the buttons on an Agilent 54622D oscilloscope. Work's a treat for now but we'll see how it fares for long-term efficacy.
21:18 going from left to right probably would've helped :)
But then you could get oils from your hands on the pads...unless you use gloves
Perhaps the owner can search out a MSDS for the product - it could very well be graphite/carbon in a volatile suspension, especially if it's a bit whiffy while drying.
Wonder if this stuff would work on earlier Alps integrated dome switches used in the TRS-80 Model 4. I've been dreading working on mine as each and every keyswitch would have to be desoldered and disassembled to get to the dome contacts...really wish they hadn't changed the keyboard mechanism from the Model 3.
too bad the individual domes of many modern cheapo keyboards are a bit too big I think.
a lot of modern cheapo keyboards like nubwo and the 100 other brand names for them (not logitech cheapos though, but the cheapos that have leds, in like 10 bucks range) have a pcb and all the buttons have their own rubber dome with a conductive thing in the middle, nigh impossible to get them back at their places if you take one open to clean. the feel isn't too bad actually.
I would vote for a quick rub of Deoxit to follow that light melamine sponging
The Deoxit would probably be best just before the Melamine, so that the sponge is using it as the liquid in the wet-sanding technique
200k is not far away! Congrats
Brings new meaning to AFK...
That’s an awesome alcohol jar, never seen anything like it…Do I dare ask where you got it?
Also been wanting to know this
Aparently Tech guy ain’t talking to his chat (Unsubscribed)… Anyway I found it, It’s a push top alcohol dispenser… McMaster has a really nice amber glass one with locking lid for something like 43.00…
You could check out Jensen Tools if they are still around. Their price on the push top dispenser might be a bit lower. Also take note, I have seen these dispensers in doctors offices, the original users of these items but one needs to find a medical supply company or a lab ware supply company that might stock them.
I just superglue tiny bits of foil to the pads. works 100% of the time.
Material?
Interesting product… I agree that the instructions aren’t great…
I could see this being a pretty good solution (as long as it holds up) with better directions. In hindsight now that I've done this and had some more time to think about it, I think it could be worthwhile to do a test of putting it on some aluminum foil like you were painting a key to see how it dries with a more visible surface. That may be enlightening on what a better application method would be.
Wonder how well it work work on carbon traces in like game and watches.
I always give the metal contacts a light rub with a magic eraser.
"pop this out like normal..." SIR THATS NOT A CAR ENGINE BAY!
@31:25. What you get "OK basic in rom" at least they're honest,
I am using MG chemicals conductive carbon ink. It is much more conductive I think. Don't buy the pen though, because it's a pain to use!
should get one of those paint mixers minipainters use :P
Dude, it's OK to admit the PET is yours. People won't look down on you.. that much, anyway.
Those contacts could be working again.
Well the easiest way is just clean the carbon pad with isopropyl or contact/pcb cleaner, and take a pencil and scribble on it real good.....
Is that technically graphene???
Or just get some copper or aluminum tape and cut some tiny strips or circles, and stick em on there, usually you'll find this from HVAC supply for duct work
It's just a switch, computer doesn't really care how you complete the circuit
Not dealing large amounts of current
Maybe 20ma or less
Anyone tried this on a PS2 dualshock controller?
❤
Good luck 🍀👍🍀👍
Love you Chan Shelby you need post on TH-cam bro , always look forward TH-cam vids brother :)
Dude, make some coffee already.
That's conductive Carbon black paint... that's all that stuff is LOL
I was thinking of BT/MGChemical's 8[4/3]__ series of conductive {carbon , silver, nickel, copper, etc} coatings including aerosols and 'pens' ...
Though visiting their website, I see that they discontinued their carbon keypad-repair kit when they phased out toluene ... along with their urethane-solvent options (except silver).
Wait a minute... the ad-copy for the kit they discontinued (because toluene) boasts that it's "acceptable", and includes a primer. I'd assumed that brittle 1L squeeze bottle was _was_ their kit.
:/ I'm now questioning if the lid on the bottle (I was handed) didn't fit properly because the bottle was broken, or if the bottle was broken from someone making a lid that didn't fit at all _to_ (since I saw them take turns trying to do the same with the water-indicating paint until the bottle split...)
I bet there's a market for old electronics repair, but I doubt it pays enough for anyone in the US to do it as more than a side thing. Maybe we just don't value old electronics enough, yet.
Try one one then dry for 6 hours then reapply another and wait but seems ok
You should always fix your pets.
^-^
Back in the day, people used aquadag repair "paint" to fix these contacts.
While you're in there change out all those electrolytic capacitors, otherwise what you are doing is a waste of time.
You were way to sparse with the coating. You should have dipped the swab directly into the container and left enough liquid on the surface so a surface tension was crated. Diasasemble and redo the work. Sloppy work is terrible!!!
Easy to comment when you're not making a video at the same time.
He followed the instructions.
It's not sloppy work when he followed specific instructions. Sloppy instructions if anything.
I'm gonna have to try that pencil technique on the remote for my DVD player... and stop cleaning it's pads with IPA!