Wray - another great video in this fabulous series on welding! I look forward to a similar test using a MIG welder. I, like you, am not a fan of MIG welding, but it is the most widely used process, and I would be eager to see how the two processes compare, side-to-side. I recently got an email from Volkmar Ewert, in Germany, telling me how much he enjoys your videos. You have a worldwide audience!
Thanks Ron, I'm enjoying the whole process too. I wish I could give gas welding a better example but as much as I practice I still have too many incidents of too much heat or not enough. It will be interesting how the mig welding examples turn out. Keep watching it means a lot too me.
Oh! nice to see Ron Covell chime in. Very happy to see you guys discussing this. All of us viewers are lucky to have you guys willing to share. Much respect given to the both of you. You guys should do a video together! That would be AMAZING! Edit - Ron Covells new nickname......'Bob Ross of metalshaping' calm collected instructions that make feel at ease.
@@proshaper TIG is fine for the work you do Wray as you can access both sides of the panel. On most car restorations or normal autobody work you only have access to one side of the panel and for that MIG is basically the only way to go. Also MIG dumps much less heat into the panel than TIG as with TIG you've got to wait for the puddle to form. Plug welds are also much easier with MIG. For most automotive sheet metal applications 0.023 wire is the best choice.
I did my first full restoration project, a Volvo 1800S. Had to replace the sills, patch several holes, re-construct edge of trunk, replace reinforcement rails etc. I went and bought a top shelf TIG welder and did all welds with it, mainly butt welds and plug welds. Learning by doing. This will be my method of choice in future restorations as well. The pedal is an absolute must, it is not viable option to use the finger trigger.
Thank you for making this series of videos. I use MIG for butt welds on car restoration and considering a TIG machine. I appreciate you putting these out. Thanks, Peter
That’s actually very impressive that you can beat it with a hammer after welding and not get any cracks or show where the welds are, if I did that after butt welding with MIG it would probably start to break apart.
MAN I HAVE SEARCHED AND SEARCHED FOR SOMEONE THAT SHARES THE SETTINGS FOR 19 GAUGE SHEET METAL..... MY 71 C-10 WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU A SPECIAL SHOUT OUT!!!!! THANKS BUD.... SUBBED
MIG certainly has its place. Quick tacks, quick repairs, or fab that requires little perfection or surface finish. Once you need surface finish It’s a lot harder to clean up as the weld is apparently more brittle. If you are a Bondo sculpturer it likely doesn’t matter. It’s also super hot so that can be an issue on sheet. I have seen people “pulse” with it(basically stacking tacks) but I wonder if that would pass your torture test? I’ve gotten to where I clip the oxidized filler before each new start so I would have to clean the last tack and clip each time = not faster, not stronger, too hot, difficult to grind. For building jigs and some framing it’s really great.
I’d recommend a wider gap to get full penetration with lower heat. The HAZ looks a little too wide. Ok for fabbing pieces off car but too much warpage for anything you can’t get to the back of to hammer and dolly out.
TIG rod and MIG wire are the same when puchased as such (ie ER70s2, ER70s6, 308, 309, etc), whenever I need TIG rod under .045 I just unspool whatever I need and cut it. If you need a straight TIG length just pull it through hour clenched fingertips in the gloves opposite to the existing curve.
I've always run a length of wire off my MIG spools when I need .035, 030 or .025 rod... Now I'm curious if there's any difference in the alloy between MIG wire and TIG rod. Great video as usual Wray.
See my method above for straightening MIG wire. To answer your question there is a difference in alloy as MIG wire is ER70-S6 and normal TIG wire is ER70-S2. The ER70-S6 actually flows better than the ER70-S2 as it contains slightly more silicon which improves wet out.
What type of welding gas are using ... what your grind angle on you tungston ..shallow or sharp angle tip. Or dull tip Like to see a follow up video how to repair holes in sheet metal blow threws... during welding..
Hi John, when tig welding thin sheet like 20 gauge ( .035") focus the heat more on the rod rather than the sheet. You have to hold the rod right where it wants to deposit. It provides you with a little insurance against blowing through. You heat the rod and drop it on the joint. Try it.
Thanks for this, Wray. I'm convinced. It looks very good. Now maybe someone will buy me a TIG setup. ;) Hey Santa! You listening? He rarely is. :( I do wonder how small many shops use TIG, putting patches on old junkers. Thin metal.. lots of rust. I mean day to day stuff. Not restos that you would take completely apart to work on. I'd like to try it.
I tried a Harbor Freight Vulcan tig welder about five months ago. One of my students brought it into the class for me to try out. It welded superbly. I was amazed. He purchased it used for $500.00. It had pulse too. I believe Harbor Freight just came out with a new model Vulcan tig it sells for $990.00. I would love to try the new version.
@@proshaper That's interesting. We don't have HF in Canada but we do have something kinda close. I check them out. Most people I know with one isn't interested in selling them. Oh.. a small request. You do fantastic job on the presentations but please slow down for the camera when you are showing results of a weld or whatever. You see it much better than the camera may pick it up so we need time to process it. Thanks, Wray.
the high argon content adds cost to steel work , ,,, but i guess it stops you having to change cylinders ,, , you would probably find 75/25 would work just as well on both metals , but with the value of the stuff your welding who really cares the gas bill is the least of the worries . great series of videos , its nice to take time to play with settings from time to time instead of falling into the '' ive always done it this way '' trap , technology does move on.
Labor is always the highest item on any car bill. To do things right it takes time there are no shortcuts. Yes, technology marches on. I have several friends that are jewelers and in the last 6 years or so most have switched to laser welding instead of torch work. I think eventually the same thing will happen with automotive.
@@proshaper most modern cars truckss are ecoat or zinc coated ie galvanized processs... have to deal with what there.. i light scruf it with rolocs sanding pad... but you can't remove what you cant access ie back side of a door or tigh space between panel in wheel arch in rear quarter panel in patch work.... Just have to deal witrh real world... problems
We're missing some important parameters. You have given your base current (1 Amp per mill) but not your pulse background percentage of base current or pulse time on. Jody Collier (weldingtipsandtricks.com) a welding god uses what he calls the rule of thirds. Using 33% of base and 33% pulse on time. Without these values you can't properly set up the pulse function.
40 amps 40 high or 100% 25 low or 62.5 1 pulse frequency or pulse per second 6 post flow or time of argon flow after finished weld 1.1 pre flow or amount of argon flow before arc strike. It's in the video.
Wray Checkout your high-tech welding supply for a demonstration on .025 wire Mig pulce welding .On my Pow Con wellder they call it STICH it works so easy on steel But joints 🐤🙌👍
Hi again. Always learning from TH-cam. Just watched another video. @UC6JPmJ_aicru8XPWr3EvJnw Dec. 2019, butt weld with mig. does mating cut on 45 degree to close up gap on patch panel. I wonder if that would work with TIG. Problem may be the metal gets to thin. Maybe you could try for us. Thanks Fred
Hi Fred, no need for an angle cut with a tig. I have tried it in the past by grinding an angle on mated edges. No need on aluminum or steel sheet for butt welding.
@@proshaper Wray, it's not hard at all and it's much cheaper. Here's how you do it. You roll out about 30 feet of mig wire. You clamp one end in a vise and chuck the other end into a high rpm drill motor (1500-2500 rpm). The toughest problem is finding a drill motor with a chuck that goes down to basically nothing with respect to the wire the chuck can hold. I have a Milwaukee corded drill with a keyed chuck that goes down to nothing which is unique as most keyless chucks can't hold onto 0.023 or 0.030 wire. In this case you need to fold over about an inch of the wire to double or triple up the wire in order to get it the chuck to clamp it. Stretch the wire out and hit the trigger on the drill to full speed and keep going for about 15 seconds. The twisting of the wire will make the wire ram-rod straight and it will stay that way. The reason this works is Physics as it puts tension into the wire. This doesn't matter at all since you end up melting it anyway which clearly removes the tension.
Need to leave your toungstan over the weld a couple of seconds after u let go of the trigger or pedal to prevent contamination of your tungsten or the weld pool
He does, I learned to tig weld from Wray. I'm sure that he just pulled it off because he was filming. On the other hand look at the results. It didn't seam to matter
Wray - another great video in this fabulous series on welding! I look forward to a similar test using a MIG welder. I, like you, am not a fan of MIG welding, but it is the most widely used process, and I would be eager to see how the two processes compare, side-to-side.
I recently got an email from Volkmar Ewert, in Germany, telling me how much he enjoys your videos. You have a worldwide audience!
Thanks Ron, I'm enjoying the whole process too. I wish I could give gas welding a better example but as much as I practice I still have too many incidents of too much heat or not enough. It will be interesting how the mig welding examples turn out. Keep watching it means a lot too me.
Oh! nice to see Ron Covell chime in. Very happy to see you guys discussing this. All of us viewers are lucky to have you guys willing to share. Much respect given to the both of you. You guys should do a video together! That would be AMAZING!
Edit - Ron Covells new nickname......'Bob Ross of metalshaping' calm collected instructions that make feel at ease.
@@proshaper TIG is fine for the work you do Wray as you can access both sides of the panel. On most car restorations or normal autobody work you only have access to one side of the panel and for that MIG is basically the only way to go. Also MIG dumps much less heat into the panel than TIG as with TIG you've got to wait for the puddle to form. Plug welds are also much easier with MIG. For most automotive sheet metal applications 0.023 wire is the best choice.
I did my first full restoration project, a Volvo 1800S. Had to replace the sills, patch several holes, re-construct edge of trunk, replace reinforcement rails etc. I went and bought a top shelf TIG welder and did all welds with it, mainly butt welds and plug welds. Learning by doing. This will be my method of choice in future restorations as well. The pedal is an absolute must, it is not viable option to use the finger trigger.
Thank you for making this series of videos. I use MIG for butt welds on car restoration and considering a TIG machine. I appreciate you putting these out. Thanks, Peter
Wray, you convinced me and I stepped up and now have a tig!
Just purchased a new Everlast welder haven't even plugged it in yet building a cart first.
I'm going to use these settings for sure.
Another levelling up for my home schooled panel mashing skills thank you!
Great content and excellent camera and audio work!! 👍👍
Took your panel shaping class a while back. Can't wait to take another hopefully soon. John Pavlo
Thanks!
That’s actually very impressive that you can beat it with a hammer after welding and not get any cracks or show where the welds are, if I did that after butt welding with MIG it would probably start to break apart.
Awesome video! I was searching for sheet metal butt welding with Tig techniques and ran across this. Extremely informative! Subcribing...
True craftsman
Thanks Wray ,very helpful lesson
MAN I HAVE SEARCHED AND SEARCHED FOR SOMEONE THAT SHARES THE SETTINGS FOR 19 GAUGE SHEET METAL..... MY 71 C-10 WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU A SPECIAL SHOUT OUT!!!!! THANKS BUD.... SUBBED
More great info Ray! I would be very interested in MIG welding results, keep up the great work, cheers, Doug
MIG certainly has its place. Quick tacks, quick repairs, or fab that requires little perfection or surface finish. Once you need surface finish It’s a lot harder to clean up as the weld is apparently more brittle. If you are a Bondo sculpturer it likely doesn’t matter. It’s also super hot so that can be an issue on sheet. I have seen people “pulse” with it(basically stacking tacks) but I wonder if that would pass your torture test? I’ve gotten to where I clip the oxidized filler before each new start so I would have to clean the last tack and clip each time = not faster, not stronger, too hot, difficult to grind. For building jigs and some framing it’s really great.
Hi Ray how are you doing. I talked to you on metal meet.
I’d recommend a wider gap to get full penetration with lower heat. The HAZ looks a little too wide. Ok for fabbing pieces off car but too much warpage for anything you can’t get to the back of to hammer and dolly out.
Perfect done,congratulations .
TIG rod and MIG wire are the same when puchased as such (ie ER70s2, ER70s6, 308, 309, etc), whenever I need TIG rod under .045 I just unspool whatever I need and cut it. If you need a straight TIG length just pull it through hour clenched fingertips in the gloves opposite to the existing curve.
Great videos. But what if you wanted to avoid warpage for a repair panel that's actually on the car...like a floor pan patch that's butt welded.
I've always run a length of wire off my MIG spools when I need .035, 030 or .025 rod... Now I'm curious if there's any difference in the alloy between MIG wire and TIG rod. Great video as usual Wray.
See my method above for straightening MIG wire. To answer your question there is a difference in alloy as MIG wire is ER70-S6 and normal TIG wire is ER70-S2. The ER70-S6 actually flows better than the ER70-S2 as it contains slightly more silicon which improves wet out.
Cloud you use 0.030" mig wire instead of getting special order rod? Not sure what the metal materials are that would make a difference.
You can but it is a pain to straighten. I believe you can buy a pound of steel .030" or 035" tig welding wire on Ebay.
What type of welding gas are using ... what your grind angle on you tungston ..shallow or sharp angle tip. Or dull tip
Like to see a follow up video how to repair holes in sheet metal blow threws... during welding..
I have the same welder having trouble doing the same thinkness on the car I’m too afraid to blow holes In my trunk pan will try your settings!!
Hi John, when tig welding thin sheet like 20 gauge ( .035") focus the heat more on the rod rather than the sheet. You have to hold the rod right where it wants to deposit. It provides you with a little insurance against blowing through. You heat the rod and drop it on the joint. Try it.
Thanks for this, Wray. I'm convinced. It looks very good. Now maybe someone will buy me a TIG setup. ;) Hey Santa! You listening? He rarely is. :(
I do wonder how small many shops use TIG, putting patches on old junkers. Thin metal.. lots of rust. I mean day to day stuff. Not restos that you would take completely apart to work on. I'd like to try it.
I tried a Harbor Freight Vulcan tig welder about five months ago. One of my students brought it into the class for me to try out. It welded superbly. I was amazed. He purchased it used for $500.00. It had pulse too. I believe Harbor Freight just came out with a new model Vulcan tig it sells for $990.00. I would love to try the new version.
@@proshaper That's interesting. We don't have HF in Canada but we do have something kinda close. I check them out. Most people I know with one isn't interested in selling them.
Oh.. a small request. You do fantastic job on the presentations but please slow down for the camera when you are showing results of a weld or whatever. You see it much better than the camera may pick it up so we need time to process it.
Thanks, Wray.
I search you toutube channel for fusion welding butt welding couldnt find you settings for setting tacks on steel
Hi Wray, I am still wondering what CFM you use on your argon and argon/helium? Series is great!
Hi Fred, CFM usually between 20 to 25
Too much heat in a localized area. You are going to get warpage. Try pulsing with a Mig welder every 1/2 inch.
Definitely a lot easier and better than using .035 flux core MIG. :-(
the high argon content adds cost to steel work , ,,, but i guess it stops you having to change cylinders ,, , you would probably find 75/25 would work just as well on both metals , but with the value of the stuff your welding who really cares the gas bill is the least of the worries .
great series of videos , its nice to take time to play with settings from time to time instead of falling into the '' ive always done it this way '' trap , technology does move on.
Labor is always the highest item on any car bill. To do things right it takes time there are no shortcuts. Yes, technology marches on. I have several friends that are jewelers and in the last 6 years or so most have switched to laser welding instead of torch work. I think eventually the same thing will happen with automotive.
@@proshaper yep I totally agree ..
Can you doing video on tig weld with butt joints on galviized sheet metal do a reply patch panel please
Ie show panel prep...
You don't weld galvanized sheet metal. it will give off harmful fumes.
@@proshaper most modern cars truckss are ecoat or zinc coated ie galvanized processs... have to deal with what there.. i light scruf it with rolocs sanding pad... but you can't remove what you cant access ie back side of a door or tigh space between panel in wheel arch in rear quarter panel in patch work....
Just have to deal witrh real world... problems
@@772777777777777 you have to remove the zinc coating before butt tig welding. You can spot weld zinc coated steel.
We're missing some important parameters. You have given your base current (1 Amp per mill) but not your pulse background percentage of base current or pulse time on. Jody Collier (weldingtipsandtricks.com) a welding god uses what he calls the rule of thirds. Using 33% of base and 33% pulse on time. Without these values you can't properly set up the pulse function.
40 amps
40 high or 100%
25 low or 62.5
1 pulse frequency or pulse per second
6 post flow or time of argon flow after finished weld
1.1 pre flow or amount of argon flow before arc strike.
It's in the video.
What was the setting of fussion tacks setting
Are you using ER70S06?
Yes
Have you used the Esab easy grind? I believe it is made for mig, but you can twist several ones for one rod
Mig weld will crack
Wray Checkout your high-tech welding supply for a demonstration on .025 wire Mig pulce welding .On my Pow Con wellder they call it STICH it works so easy on steel But joints 🐤🙌👍
Will do.
hope have thin plate tig welding ( 1/16" and less )
Put it on right now!!!!
Hi again. Always learning from TH-cam. Just watched another video. @UC6JPmJ_aicru8XPWr3EvJnw Dec. 2019, butt weld with mig. does mating cut on 45 degree to close up gap on patch panel. I wonder if that would work with TIG. Problem may be the metal gets to thin. Maybe you could try for us. Thanks Fred
Hi Fred, no need for an angle cut with a tig. I have tried it in the past by grinding an angle on mated edges. No need on aluminum or steel sheet for butt welding.
Wray, can't I just roll some .030 wire out of my mig gun?
You can. Just a pain
I have found it easier to buy the straight rods. If straightening works for you go for it.
@@proshaper Wray, it's not hard at all and it's much cheaper. Here's how you do it. You roll out about 30 feet of mig wire. You clamp one end in a vise and chuck the other end into a high rpm drill motor (1500-2500 rpm). The toughest problem is finding a drill motor with a chuck that goes down to basically nothing with respect to the wire the chuck can hold. I have a Milwaukee corded drill with a keyed chuck that goes down to nothing which is unique as most keyless chucks can't hold onto 0.023 or 0.030 wire. In this case you need to fold over about an inch of the wire to double or triple up the wire in order to get it the chuck to clamp it. Stretch the wire out and hit the trigger on the drill to full speed and keep going for about 15 seconds. The twisting of the wire will make the wire ram-rod straight and it will stay that way. The reason this works is Physics as it puts tension into the wire. This doesn't matter at all since you end up melting it anyway which clearly removes the tension.
@@satamanschmidt3428 Great tip!!! Thanks for sharing. I've always just dealt with the curve. I'll definitely add this to my arsenal of tricks!
@@satamanschmidt3428 You make some excellent points. I will mention them in the video I do about mig welding automotive sheet metal- thanks.
on steel, do you still recommend 50%argon/50%helium, or just 100%argon?
Both work fine
Need to leave your toungstan over the weld a couple of seconds after u let go of the trigger or pedal to prevent contamination of your tungsten or the weld pool
He does, I learned to tig weld from Wray. I'm sure that he just pulled it off because he was filming. On the other hand look at the results. It didn't seam to matter
Mild steel...
Yes, .040" or 19 gauge, or 1MM
True craftsman