See past Sunday Musings: SundayMusings.com The scriptures are full of examples of God calling a new prophet from outside the established religious hierarchy. Could it happen today?
The Church throughout the 1950s-1960s preached intensely about how we had no greater immediate responsibility than to uphold the Constitution in the tradition of America's founders. During those 20ish years, hardly a General Conference passed without AT LEAST one address about this subject. But this message fell more on figuratively-deaf ears than not, as the Brethren lamented repeatedly. Then-Elder Benson warned us in 1965 Apr in General Conference: "Sometimes the Lord hopefully waits on his children to act on their own, and when they do not, they lose the greater prize, and the Lord will either DROP THE ENTIRE MATTER and let them suffer the consequences or else he will have to spell it out in greater detail." In another General Conference address in 1969, Elder Benson said thrice that we had a prophet but needed a listening ear. From the 1970s onward, it appears that the Lord MOSTLY dropped this matter, as he had warned, because there were only several General Conference addresses about this subject in the 1970s, a few in the 1980s, one in the 1990s, and then none for about 20 years. It's sad that we Latter-day Saints didn't listen better, statistically---but I did and others did and I'm confident that more will listen eventually, although I worry what we may need to endure before enough of us finally open our ears to hear Him about politics.
I've been thinking the same thing for a while. I've been asking how lightly have we treated the prophets? I know that I was definitely in the camp of treating them lightly as a teenager in the 2000s and even in my twenties in the early 2010s. I has only been since the wake-up call of 2020 that I think I've finally started taking them seriously, the way I was supposed to for the entirety of my youth. I've been listening to conference talks from decades in the past, and I marvel at how we seem to have ignored, in general, the stern warnings and admonitions of the Brethren. Pres. Benson saw what was coming, I'm certain of it, he was decades ahead of the events in USA. Now I listen, read and re-read the addresses from our modern General Authorities with great frequency. Even if their mouths are stopped because of the wickedness and hard-heartedness of the Saints, I hope the Spirit can reveal to me the things they wish they could say, and can't.
I am afraid we are past the point of no return. All we can do now is prepare mentally, physically, emotionally and especially spiritually. We must hold fast to Christ and learn to hear what He is telling us and I honestly haven't heard anything coming from the leadership over the past many years warning us and guiding us to a safe place. Sadly I haven't heard Nelson say anything special to us, I hear the same things coming from the self proclaimed prophets here on youtube.
The members of the Church have never followed the prophet on politics. They repealed Prohibition and Utah was the deciding state. The only good thing they do is vote Republican. The Democrats are too far left and their agenda is pure evil. You get what you vote for and you get what you deserve when it comes to God.
I brought up something similar to this topic at church...I said that we believe more scripture will come forth in the last days. What if it came from the wilderness? Like The Book of Mormon...I was told that happening would be highly unlikely. That the Lord would only give us scripture through "The proper channels". Sadly, I think many members today would have rejected the boy Joseph if we had lived back then.
This misconstrues the question, dangerously so. Your statement gives the idea that the Church or some members of it are closing or limiting the canon of scripture we draw from. This is false. Whether or not "more scripture" appears "from the wilderness", it still requires vetting by the proper authority. We will always have two filters against truths and untruths of the world. One is the spiritual gift of discernment, the other is the prophet's word. These are the "proper channels" that the Lord works through.
@@kalosvoss5573 please explain how we can claim to have sole access to revelation from God? If church leaders couldn't tell the difference between actual documents or Hoffman frauds, what gives them the ability to "verify" more scripture coming from the wilderness?
Why not fast & pray and ask the Lord if he is going to or has already sent a true messenger that is teaching repentance and teaching people how to prepare for Zion? God is not going to answer us, if we have already decided what the answer is or isn't. Zion from above has not come down to meet with a zion people here yet. This must happen, and there must be a people that repents and becomes a zion people in order for them to return to. I know that if we ask God with a sincere heart, doubting nothing and acting no hypocrisy, he will guide us to the truth of all things, if that is truly what we want. Study "The Lectures on Faith" (given by Joseph Smith that used to be in our scriptures) & it can help. We must ask, in order to receive.
I've always found it fascinating that Mosiah was a king, prophet, and seer, but God called Alma, the reformed sinner and refugee from a Lamanite occupation, to start the church of God in Zarahemla.
I find it instructive that despite Alma having preached anti-monarchism prior to his reunification with King Mosiah's people, he obtained a charter from Mosiah before establishing an organized church and branches in his kingdom.
Well done, thank you for this. Looking at this modernly I have noticed many who call people to repentance or call out corruption despite their foibles are cast away, written off. In my small town I have seen political and religious bickering and division and just when we start making peace and settling waters and repenting something big happens. Here people refuse to invite and share, because they hold resentment and they favor resentment over repentance. There is corruption in key places and good ole boys yet people are falling away. I noticed when I had been removed by ambitious people the collapse of many things, things that had nothing to do with me but I am sure reflected the leadership of these corrupt and ambitious people. I am in an LDS rural community, and Niniva has a better chance of being saved. I have no authority but a testimony of Jesus Christ, you know me and my shortcomings, but I think us ordinary people have a subtle impact that collectively serves its total purpose. People will reap their reward when even the saints claim to be Christ’s people but prefer anti-Christ behavior. Thanks Connor
Study D&C 101 the parable of the watchmen.... ask God what it means for our day. Study Alma 13 about the priesthood. What does it mean for our day? The Book of Mormon was written for US the LDS who are reading it! We are the ones who are told to Awaken to our Awful Situation both with Government, Our Church and Ourselves! STUDY Mormon 8. and ask God if it applies to our Church?
Nah. Those are dead prophets. Stick with the loving ones. Stay on the covenant path and the Old Ship Zion. Oh wait, Elder Ballard died. Never mind the Old Ship Zion. Just stay on the covenant path.
I prayed about the Book of Mormon, and I prayed about President Nelson. I got a yes to both. I would trust my life to this Church under his direction, and I'll trust my life to his successor. You seem to be seeing phantoms of apostasy in God's organization
Why would God answer with a yes or no, to any question? Doesn’t that sound like a Magic 8 Ball, or a Ouija Board? Wouldn't he want you to have understanding? Joseph Smith said "A fanciful and flowery and heated imagination be aware of, because the things of God are of deep import, and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Your mind, O man, if you will lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost Heavens, and search into and contemplate the lowest considerations of the darkest abyss, and expand upon the broad considerations of eternal expanse. You must commune with God. How much more dignified and noble are the thoughts of God than the vain imagination of the human heart? None but fools will trifle with the souls of men." We must seek, ask, & knock for it to be opened unto us. There are rules/commandments that must be obeyed in order to receive. We must search for them and do / live according to them and be proven in all things. If we choose to listen and do what others tell us to, instead of asking God and receive the spirit/revelation for ourself like all the righteous/prophets/teachers in the scriptures we will never find the truth that we are all searching for which brings true happiness. God will gather us as a hen gathers her chicks if we are willing. Love you.
It's interesting that in most cases these prophets we read about in the scriptures were considered absolute losers and nobodies in their time. Ether would have been practically unknown among his people. This verse stands out to me in Ether 12:5: "And it came to pass that Ether did prophesy great and marvelous things unto the people, which they did not believe, because they saw them not." So most people didn't even realize he had prophesied many things. How many prophets are out there among us making prophesies that nobody even sees or acknowledges? During the Millenium it will be interesting to learn about these unknown people among us.
@@kalosvoss5573if you dont you missed all the nasty stuff they have been saying and doing the last 3 and a half years..... from lgbt to un to nee world order to lies and seeking worldly fame its been awful
Brother Connor, I can tell that you have heard the voice of the Lord being spoken by others within the Body of Christ. Good for you for having the courage to speak on the matter. For myself, I have been surprised to hear Book of Mormon language coming from those who do not know it. These are exciting, unprecedented times! Keep speaking brother. Those with ears to hear are listening.
I was listening to another LDS podcaster and reading the comments when someone said we should look you up so I came straight over and typed in your name. The videos that came up almost shocked me with joy. It was like a smorgasbord of my favorite topics and I couldn't decide which one to try first. I have such a huge problem with worshipping the prophet that I chose this one and you did not let me down. You didn't even followup by saying "I support the prophet" after pointing out things that aren't right. I can't thank you enough.
bless you truly for your struggle and courage. “worshiping the prophet “ is one of the wicked traditions we have assimilated too. We thank God for the prophet and all those he sends to us, but mostly I believe the Holy Ghost to which we are all equally entitled too, gives anyone the huge opportunity to check anything received and being told in a prophetic way. The only thing that keeps us safe and close to God is the constant close companionship to the Holy Ghost, even said by the prophet himself a few years ago. Adding, the only thing the prophet has that separates anyone from the prophet President Nelson are the keys he holds. Being critical of suspect information or charge is not apostasy but everyones’ duty. Our Agency charges and demands ‘trust but verify’. wonderful to meet you. best wishes, Thomas
Great perspective. Love these musings. I have thought this for some time and have recently been asking my wife some of the same questions. Would we ever see Alma find Amulek in our day? What if the Lord wants to do what he has done in the past but we, not He, have shut the door and don't allow it because we have established the hierarchy we put all our trust in and look no further. For me, listening to videos and podcasts like this have greatly impacted my testimony and have helped me from leaving the faith. Even someone like Jordan Peterson has expanded my views and helped me to continue in faith.
God established the hierarchy, not us. He is in charge of it. If we're not sure that He is in charge of it, then it is both our privilege and our duty to find out. As Brigham Young once said: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." If we ask Heavenly Father in humble faith with a sincere hunger to know, and also to act according to whatever answer we are given, then He are in a great position to qualify to receive divine answers through revelation.
I see Denver Snuffer in this role. I didn't look at his teachings based on what I heard people saying, but when I started to actually listen to his messages the Spirit testified to me that He has called him to say what he's saying. It's all I ever wanted to hear in GC but never do. It's a breath of fresh air, even being called to repentance. He's a true messenger of God. Dare I even say prophet? I believe him to be.
@@Kristy_not_Kristine and that’s where things get sticky. Early on in the church one of the few members found a stone that gave him revelation almost exactly like Joseph received from his seer stone. Long story short, he was being deceived and was rebuked because only the prophet will receive revelation for the church. Snuffer has this vibe in my eyes. I think the “prophets” I’m talking about or even spoken of in Lehi’s story were more like missionaries spreading the message of repentance and the truth. Snuffer is pulling people away from the established church.
@@staticrug It is like you didnt watch this at all. We are told to "come into Christ" not come into the Church. "Established Church" has been and is on shaky ground and if pulling people away from shaky ground to Christ is that not ok?
I’ve watched almost every one of your musings. I really like this one. I think you’re spot on with the pattern. You’re describing the Davidic servant to a T!!
@@archangel_one There is a scriptural precedent for a Latter Day servant from the David's line that will lead the righteous against the anti-Christ just prior to the Lord's return. Here's some info on it: th-cam.com/video/w-d3vKLaqpM/w-d-xo.html
@@archangel_oneit is in Isaiah, though that exact term isn’t used. Not sure if he is mentioned elsewhere…still need to study this out. Most Christians believe it refers to Christ. And yes, a lot of cult leaders falsely believe they are the servant. I gotta admit, though, Conner’s video does make it sound like the pattern is for God to send a servant to call repentance before destruction begins, or to prepare people to receive Christ.
@@lisatreelove9278 The term reminds me of the Branch Davidians and Joseph Smith, both false prophets and creepy cult leaders. If you are referring to Isaiah 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. That is Christ Jesus. Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; FYI, I'm a servant of Christ, and I'm in the House of David -- not sure if that makes me a "Davidic servant". But I freely admit that I'm not the Messiah -- that would be my Lord Jesus Christ.
holy crap, you keep reading my mind. one of the things I always say is if Samuel the lamanite reappeared and gave a message to our people, I feel he would be condemned by KSL, the Deseret news and half of BYU. One problem is the background of our leaders. if you look they all come from academic backgrounds. Which is ok for now. however as more time passes. I don't see how loading up the church with more academics is a good thing.
True, I agree. Especially with the twelve, their careers and knowledge are helpful to us. I just also feel that it’s important that we remember that the lord can work with those of us who are lowly and uneducated but work hard. Joseph Smith is a good example of this though so we can see this example in past church history.
@@Ily779 does God need Ivy League schools to educate men to be effective leaders? In the scriptures being learned is always a hinderance. I’m not sure it’s different now.
All of this "outside of hierarchy" business is based on a host of assumptions about the church organization in the Book of Mormon and Old Testament periods. But we have almost zero information about how the Church was organized in Samuel the Lamanite's time when most of the believers were Lamanites. We have almost zero information about Lehi's relationship to Jeremiah. Or Lehi's background. Or his relationship to the church hierarchy. We don't know how prophets and priests worked in Jeremiah's time whose dad was "of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin." We have no idea what the role of those prophets were, how they were organized, how one became a prophet, what their relationship was to prophets in other places, etc. We don't know how the church and authority worked with Alma and King Noah. We have almost zero information on the hierarchy in any of the periods or with any of the people mentioned in the video. It's all assumptions based upon assumptions. For all we know all these prophets were INSIDE the official church hierarchy. All we have about these ancient preachers are little snippets from which we make conjectures. But where we DO have reams and reams about hierarchy and authority is with the Church in the Latter-days. We have direct revelations about Hiram Page and Oliver and Huldah the Prophetess and others. We have the preface to the D&C. We know about keys in these days. We have lots of good information about what the Lord said would be his method today. It's cool to make guesses about ancient things. But why try to contravene what we do know with guesses about stuff we don't?
The opening story in the Book of Mormon is the story of Lehi receiving revelations and ultimately leaving Jerusalem, taking important scriptural records with him. Translated into today's context, it might look something like this: Brother Lehi in your high priest's group at church suddenly starts talking about revelations that he's getting. He starts saying that the laws of God, on which your entire society has staked its identity, won't save you. Remember, as a Jew in Jerusalem (likewise as a Mormon in 2024), you believe that you and your people have unique knowledge of how to have a relationship with the true God, and you've been called to exemplify this on a national scale, to draw all men to God. But Lehi says your entire conception of God is actually incomplete. Rather than save you by His laws, Lehi says, God will have a son with a mortal woman, and that son will save you. He fundamentally changes the understanding of the nature of God. Well, doesn't that sound like hints of impropriety? The psycho-sexual ravings of a madman, perhaps? He blasphemes the holiness of God! To put this fully in the context of the LDS church in Utah: Later, Lehi's kids KILL THE CHURCH HISTORIAN, steal historical records from the church vaults, and escape into the West Desert in Salt Lake County. They high-tail it out to Magna, Utah. Think of how this would be reported and perceived by the public! The murder of the church historian would be all over local news. Lehi would be regarded as a man who lost his mind and began hearing and heeding voices in his head. The national media would be slobbering over the scandal. Everybody would be absolutely sure that Lehi was a criminal, and probably a cult leader. But the Book of Mormon says Lehi was right and the entire religious and social structure was wrong. Certainly, this comparison is imperfect. For example, the LDS church historian does not have a private army. And there is certainly no shortage of pretenders, charlatans, deceivers, psychotics, and cultists. But this story demonstrates that the responsibility for discernment and wisdom falls squarely on each of us. There never was an ironclad guarantee that an organization of mortals with religious and political power would ALWAYS be correct. That's dumb.
There's been people for decades saying, "What if someone outside the Church has to step in and set it in order?" Even if that were to be the case that same person would still have to eventually receive the saving and exalting ordinances from the Church.
3. I was so naïve. I thought, "These guys all grew up in the church. They know the commandments and the scriptures. All I have to do is to remind them of the commandments and they will repent and get rid of the graven image. No Problem." Right? I am old enough to remember when the offices of the church were open to everybody and anybody could just walk in and get an appointment with an apostle on the spot. Times have changed. In the first place, I was surprised by all the images on Temple Square. SLC has become the Vatican of the west. I went to the Church admin building, expecting to get an appointment to see one of the apostles. I was met by the church's Gestapo who told me that if I set one foot on Temple square during conference I would be arrested. I knew it was not my time yet and I left SLC and returned home. I asked the Lord why he had impressed on me to go to SLC at that time. He told me it was so I would be eye witness to their idolatry and corruption.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 Yes, I have seen the symbols. The most telling is the All seeing eye, like you see on the back of the dollar bill, an Illuminati symbol. It is a sure sign that the Illuminati has been in the leadership of the church practically since the beginning.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 You are right. One of the symbols is the all seeing eye like you find on the back of the dollar bill which is an Illuminati symbol. It means the Illuminati has been in church leadership since the beginning and have now taken over.
Very interesting ideas. I have wondered of late about the behavior of the present group of leaders. Also usually most countries and organizations have problems after a couple hundred years so why not the Q15?
You're missing the separating factor from all the world. Matthew 16:18 says what rock the Church will be built on. To question whether the Church is no longer divinely led either means they are falling away... or you are.
Why would the church not be able to fall into apostasy if that is what has happened time and time again in The Book of Mormon and Bible. Mankind always changes and alters God's words since the beginning of time, then falls into apostasy, and God sends messengers from him to help people of faith (those that ask God) to repent and return to the correct way again. Keep his (the Lord’s) commandments and lay everything else aside, hungering & thirsting after righteousness (taught in The Book of Mormon & The Lectures on Faith) and he will help you if you ask with real intent. Follow the path of the prophets in the scriptures, that is why they are written there. They are trying to help us and warn us, before it is too late. Seek after Him and you will find Him. He is who matters.
@@kalosvoss5573you need to get to know the people you trust before relying on the arm of flesh. There is much you do not know about your leaders. You just accept what they say when they tell you they are men of God.
@@kalosvoss5573 You ignore the harsh reality that the Church under Brigham was more like the Kingdom of Noah than the peoples of Alma. The Q15 voted for it at Winter Quarters. But I take it you do not follow the counsel of the Doctrine of Covenants 88:118 and thus remain trapped in ignorance...
See the Parable of the Great Supper. in Luke 14. The Lord's covenant people are invited to the marriage supper or the Feast with the Lord. WHO is sent? The servant. This servant is not from among the covenant people. They do not recognize that he is from the Lord himself, since they do not know the Savior. It is just another dinner, another invitation, blah blah blah. They make excuses. They do not listen to the servant as they do not know the message or the one who sent the message. They see nothing of great importance in it. All is well in Zion, Zion prospereth. So the Lord sends the servant out again into the streets to the downtrodden. I would assume to blood Israel and Lehi's seed who are outside the covenant group. Many of these folks recognize or hearken to the servants message as they know the master. There still are not enough so the servant is sent out again to areas where they have never heard of the Lord and yet they come from all heathen nations. The last, gentiles who got the gospel are the first to get the message. They reject it and it then goes to Israel who rejected it thousands of years ago.
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland once said that there won't be another call-out because Zion is now worldwide and, as such, we can no longer flee from Babylon into the wilderness, but must face Babylon instead---and that, although we will not leave it, some Latter-day Saints will leave the Church.
Zion is not a state of mind, but a physical place. Do you really think we will have to "flee to Zion" to be protected from the coming evils by just staying in our Stake? This doesn't make any sense. Has this ever happened historically?
I would say that most of our church today has fully embraced Babylon and supports it. Take a drive through your average LDS neighborhood in Salt Lake or Utah County in June and there are pride flags in many yards. So there is definitely a huge reason to justify fleeing from Babylon today.
Some have. When I attended BYU, some dormmates spoke about how they couldn't wait until the judgment day to laugh in the faces of homosexual folks as they were thrust down to hell. Now at BYU one can find ample pride flags. But we need both love and law, as President Oaks has explained so well.
This reminds me of how cringed i get when people in the church talk about the two prophets in Jerusalem that will be killed then rise again. They always talk about it be one of the 12. I have never felt that.
Here are two interesting quotes, (Joseph Smith said this in a letter to elder Phelps, (who was the editor of Evening and Morning Star) He wrote: “for if Zion will not purify herself, so as to be approved in all things, in His sight, He will seek another people; For His work will go on until Israel is gathered, and they who will not hear His voice, must expect to feel His wrath." --then Marion G Romney: "It is imperative that they be maintained and observed here in America in order that they may go out from here undiluted to the protection of all flesh. Whether this generation of Americans will live up to its opportunity to obey and preserve them, particularly Gods law of liberty-including the gospel of Jesus Christ, who is the God of this land-remains to be seen. If it does not, the wicked among us will be destroyed, as were the wicked preceding the appearance of the risen Lord to the Nephites. God will spare the righteous and raise up another generation in this land, for out of Zion the law of God will go forth.**
I had a business in Phoenix, Arizona, and there were a few people that came in to my store to buy wheat grinders I was talking to one of them one day and ask him where he came from and he said, all of his people were here from Russia. They had a large community in the west part of Phoenix area, and he said that their prophet had told them to get out of Russia just before it went communist. They were the best and nicest people you would ever want to meet and really good people, and I think they did have a prophet who Told them to get the out of there.
The suppression of inconvenient church history under the sentiment of “not all truths are useful” strikes me as a secret combination. No one is immune from human error, and per D&C 107 no one in the Church is exempt from accountability to the membership.
You should do two musings: 1) The condemnations of the church and the Lord removing His name off of the church going from the Church of Christ to Church of Latter-Day Saints in 1834. 2) reaction to Justin Griffin’s movie who killed Joseph Smith?
Why would we not hear the stinging message from the current leaders? Do we mean prophets outside the church entirely? I think there are some good examples of truth tellers out there today.
I haven't heard any stinging messages for a long long, LONG time. I think the point connor is saying is look for truth, pray for it, seek to discern it.
The current leaders give smooth messages and tell us we are doing fine, we just need to be 1% better. I don’t think we will get stinging messages from any of them.
I have complained of this for many years. I used to complain to my husband after conference how disgusted I was with the mamb pamby crap coming from the pulpit.@@andreab7246
when Jesus visited the Nephites, he asked why the words of Samuel the Lamanite were not written in the records, their answer was crickets. then Jesus asked them to do it. So they back dated the records to include Samuel's words.
I imagine the official prophet, Nephi, felt that Samual was “unauthorized” so therefore didn’t give him any creedence. “Official” authorities are very protective of their turf from outsiders.
No, no… it does mean adulterers in the traditional sense. One of the biggest reason (according to Jacob 1,2, and 3) that Lehi fled from Jerusalem was because of the abomination of polygamy being practiced.
Yes my dear, you are correct. That is one of the main things that God raised up seed by commanding Lehi to take his family and go. Brigham turned verse 30 into meaning that we need polygamy in order to raise up seed. Now we look at verse 30 as needing to have polygamy to produce lots of kids and they don't realize that God's seed was Lehi and those who went with him. Never has God required Polygamy from His people. There was one woman per man to populate in the very beginning, during the flood, sending Lehi away and Brigham didn't need polygamy to build up the church. That is what you call uncontrolled testosterone.
I believe Mosiah was heavily influenced by Alma to abdicate to his newly commissioned democratic kritarchy. Prior to reuniting with the Zarahemla Nephites, Alma had been preaching anti-monarchy based on his bitter experience with Noah's corrupt regime.
What does that mean? "treat" someone like a prophet? I treat President Nelson with the same respect that I would Joseph. I listen to his council with my heart, and intend to apply it. What more is there to "treating" someone like a prophet??
I know several who don't adore President Nelson. Joseph was told that people would be divided because of him. You either love or hate the Prophet Joseph. Most people don't love prophets because they call us to repentance. I love Pres. Nelson
Would you not consider yourself someone who has been called to preach to the people? I think God is doing exactly what you were saying about noninstitutional prophets with work done by you and saints unscripted, and many others. And even on a smaller scale with neighbors reaching out to their communities. The church called us ALL to be member missionaries. If we are doing so, we will be used as "prophets" too
@@akpred It's whoever won't listen to the Word of God. For instance... Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Mat_24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. Luk_16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
@archangel_one members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aka "Mormons" love those verses, too That's the thing about scriptures they can be interpreted many different ways. That's why in Acts 8: 30-31, the eunuch asks how he is to understand scripture without someone to guide him.
@@akpred No problem, I will guide you... Mormonism says that god was once a man like us and that we can all become gods, which says that God is lying here: Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. and then of course this one comes into play... Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Joseph Smith said, "Lo, here is Christ!" Mat_24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. Mat 24:26 (ASV) If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not. And of course... Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Question: Is Joseph Smith a god now?
How are we guaranteed it doesn’t apply to us? It all applies to us! It is happening right before our eyes and people are asleep to it all! The Book of Mormon was also written FOR US because WE the LDS people ARE the Gentiles talked about! Once one understands this one thing, we realize that we have been commanded to wake up to our awful situation and turn to Christ... not an eatablishment... not men who do not speak with the power and authority of the Holy Ghost... 2 Ne 28 is talking about US! We must repent and return to Christ not a church... not a building. Jesus Christ is who saves us...
Loved this musing. It is definitely a pattern that I believe was put there for us to watch for. I always wondered how people found Alma while he was in hiding from the King. How did they end up around the waters of Mormon? How did they qualify for the first group out? I want to be in that group. less death.
Praying the Saints realize ,when those who understand the evil of the covid v a x( of the Covenant endowment) have an audience with the brethren( our prophet and apostles) the power of the priesthood will be Unleashed more fully for the purpose of blessing healing those who have been inflicted with the vaccine worldwide.
You wonder if there were any in the last 200 years? Yes, I think Hugh Nibley and Denver Snuffer. Hugh was on the outside at BYU. Denver was a high councilman who wrote a book saying he had seen Jesus and everyone can. Denver's books are fantastic but he was excommunicated for his 8th book, which was about church history and was a page turner, and he fits the pattern from outside the hierarchy but in the church, he saw the Lord and he was excommunicated. Thank you for your videos, they make me think.
@@archangel_one We are authorized and endowed members of His organization on earth, given the divine charge to call the nations to repentance. "A nation of priests and kings" as Peter foretold. We are His servants, and He has blessed us for it.
@@kalosvoss5573 That's a bit vague. Who are "we"? Who is "His"? What is "His organization"? And so on. The reason why I ask is that the LDS has different meanings to the same words. Also, you seem to be referencing... 1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Rev_1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. The Holy Bible is of course addressing Christians, not Mormons.
So far all I have seen from Nelson and others is to bow to the wicked leaders of nations. I have seen no calling of repentance coming from leaders since Joseph Smith tried to. In fact, the church got greedy and signed on to the 501-c3 to avoid paying taxes and now the evil government owns the church.@@kalosvoss5573
2. I remembered seeing the image back in the 70's in SLC and I wondered how it was that the church had a graven image when, right across the walk way, is engraved the ten commandments that clearly says, "You shall not make unto yourself graven images." I looked at the face on the image. I have seen Jesus and I knew it was not the face of Jesus, and I wondered whose face was on the image. At that time I did not recognize the face. So now when my friend was telling me about his experience, the Lord reminded me whose face it is. It is the face of Lucifer. After doing a little research, I found out the image was erected by Pres. McKay in 1966. Pres. McKay was the prophet when I was a child. We were taught to worship the man. I felt very betrayed that the supposed Prophet had betrayed the Mormon people to erect a graven image, but not just any graven image, but a Catholic graven image with the face of Lucifer on it. I felt moved upon by the spirit to do something. In 2011, I made a trip to SLC, to talk to the leaders of the church about repenting of the Idolatry.
I did alittle research... you are correct in that David McKay had the statue placed on temple Square. The image of Lucifer in the marble statue was made in 1842. The original Cristus was carved in 1833.
President Oaks said he nor any of the Q15 have seen Christ. Do a little homework and you'll find they aren't special witnesses of Christ himself but only His name.
@@kalosvoss5573 When I was 5 years old, it was the first time I remember going to Sunday School. The teacher asked me if I knew who Jesus was. I did not recognize the name so I said, "No." She went on to say he was the creator of the world, the son of God. I remembered being with them before I was born and said, "Oh yeah. I know who you are talking about.." So I guess you could say that was the first time seeing him since I was born. Then, there are dreams where I am walking with Jesus and seeing him. Then there was the time when my memory of him was fading and I saw a picture from the shroud of Turin and wondered if that was really his face, when suddenly, He was standing in front of me and everything around me was not there. The vision only lasted a moment and nothing verbal was said, but as he looked into my eyes, I felt the same peace, joy and Love that I felt when He forgave me of my sins and I was born again. Jesus lives. He is the son of the living God. He is my savior and my best friend.
If Christ were to come to SLC as a homeless preacher and were to call out the leadership and company with the sinners he would be killed in three years
The book of Isaiah prophesies of such a person. Prophet/Servant/Davidic servant/marred servant/ Hand of God. I recommend the “Isaiah Institute” for great information!
The LDS church is going to go through the same things as the Jews. The church has become corrupt as during Lehi's time as well as Christ time. The Lord has said that the enemy has taken over His vineyard (church), and He will send another servant to take His vineyard back, throw down their tower, and scatter them. That servant is now upon the earth and is not part of the leadership. When Christ sends that servant forth, there will be a division among the church as it was during Christ time. That day is coming quickly.
This topic would make a good sacrament talk or Sunday School lesson. Boyer one part your academic does not understand is war. If US never built a military defense, you would multilingual, speaking Japanese, German, Russian, and Chinese. You like it?
@@wallswithstyle He was not ordained and confirmed, but rather he was healed and baptized by Ananias (not to be confused with another Ananias who lied to the Holy Ghost or Ananias who had been High Priest). See Act 9:10-18
Greetings from "Zion". REPENT! See Php 3:12-19, 1Co 1:18-24, Col 2:13-14, Gal 2:20-21, Gal 6:14. Of Joseph Smith: 1Jn 2:18-19, Mat 24:23, Mar 13:2 My great-grandmother was an Amos.
Why do you think that in the Book of Mormon God made such specific prophecies that always came true in every detail, whereas in real life nothing like this ever occurs. Do you think the Book of Mormon could be idealistic fiction?
I get that you're being contentious, but I'll take you up on the question. The Book of Mormon is a post-story review of events. It is literally the Book of (the guy) Mormon, compiled and edited by his hand. Those prophecies, while they might not have been clear at the time, were obvious in hindsight. Mormon had this hindsight, and so could point out the fulfillment of these afterwards. It is the exact same thing with the life of Jesus. Isaiah prophesied a whole lot about him that would not have been clear before or during His ministry, but is obvious to us now.
1. OK Connor you called me out. Let's see how you do. By their fruits you shall know them. The three outward signs of false prophets, 1. idolatry. False prophet always come with graven images. 2. Wealth and power. God's true prophets are humble common men, servants to the people. 3. The sheep's clothing, the uniform of the believer that hides their hypocrisy. In 2010, I was visiting one of my friends who had converted to Christ, not LDS. He was telling me about being visited by the Mormon Missionaries. He told me about them taking him to visit the visitor's center in Independence MO. In the rotunda of visitor's center is a copy of the graven image that stands in the Visitor's center in SLC. He told me how one of the elders waved his hand in the direction of the image and Asked, "What do you think of our God?" My friend replied, "Your god is a rock with a face carved on it? I am sorry, but I cannot be a member of a church that worships idols." My friend asked me if he did the right thing. I told him, Yes. I said, "Who knows whose face is carved on the image."
Are you referring to their statue of Christ? I don't think he meant that they worshiped the statue. They have a much worse problem, Ahman Christ, an impersonator.
@@archangel_one Worship is the highest form of love. When one refers to an image as their god, that is a form of worship. If they do not worship the images, it should not be a problem to take it down. The Mormons do worship the image. I went to SLC in October 2011. There were homeless people wandering the streets. Many were going to the Church welfare offices seeking help but because they were not members, they were turned away. At the same time, there was the image that stands in the visitor's center with air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter and care takers who attend to the image to keep it clean and polished, and worse yet, the tithes of the people are used to showcase the images of the church.
@@josephaney I don't know...if you saw a picture of Jesus, and said that Jesus was God, your God -- is that an idol? Does this mean you are worshiping it, or do you simply love God? Someone gave me a little old picture of Jesus Christ as Shepherd and hung it up for me. They were very poor, I was poor, they thought I'd like it. So I was okay with that. Witches and worshipers of evil would sometimes come into my house, and they would go nuts! Sometimes from outside my house! I had someone force their way through my door, grab the Ten Commandments off the wall, take it outside and smash it to bits. I don't think that they were doing this because I was worshiping the picture of Christ or the 10 Commandments, I think that they did this because I worship God. As for not taking care of the poor and homeless ... Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. Luke 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: Luke 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. But MORE importantly... 1Cor 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. I don't think it's wrong to have air conditioning, to make visitors comfortable, to keep your places of worship clean and respectable. I live close to one of their most holy places, and they do serve the very poor, at least once a week with a dinner. So I guess it's between them and God -- and maybe some individual churches are more honorable than others. And if you are still listening to me rattle on, I'll tell you something, a bit extra. One day I thought that I might die. I didn't want to die alone in my apartment and someone find out days later, partly because I was worried about my cat. So I thought about that pretty place, the statue of Christ, air conditioning, and I decided to go there to die. That sounds wrong, I know, but I really wanted to die comfortable and looking at Jesus. When I got there, it was like I was greeted by the devil. The guy, Elder, was accusing me -- out of nowhere, of being like Joseph Smith, you know, like with the women? It was like Satan told him to lie about me, and he did it instantly, no questions asked. So I went outside to die. The entire time I had a study of Acts chapter 3 playing on the phone. Instead of looking at Jesus, I was looking at the pretty flowers, part of "God's Creation." Probably about a half hour later, my heart stopped hurting so bad and started beating right, so I went on home. It's just something to think about.
@@archangel_one Thank you for your reply. I agree with what you are saying for the most part. Speaking of idolatry, the sin is initiated by the people in power who set up the images. Let me start by telling the the reason for the commandment. There is a fine line between art and idolatry. God said, "You shall have no other gods before me." If you want to know the gods of the people, look at their images. In other words, Gods was saying, you shall not set up any images between him and you. He is saying, "Do not look to an image to save you or comfort you. Look to me and I will heal you and comfort you." There are no true images of God or Jesus. There are only false images to deceive the people. The devil inspires false images to deceive the people to put those images between us and God. The spirits of demons can inhabit images so when people think they are looking to God, when they look to an image, they are looking at a demon disguised as God. When you went to the visitor's center, the demons who live there recognized you as a child of God and wanted you out of their house. I believe God was showing you how deceptive the devil can be. He puts on a show of beauty and peace but his habitations are full of death and evil. When I was young, I felt a bad spirit in the Visitor's center and rarely visited it, knowing that the there was a graven mage there. I was eventually kicked out of the church for being a born again Christian and because I would not deny my relationship with Jesus. God bless you, my friend to find the truth. You will not find it among the Mormons anymore.
@@josephaney I believe the purpose of these commandments is because there is only ONE true God. Listen to the Word, but also listen to the reason why... Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; I believe that these two commandments are basically the same commandment. We CANNOT take these commandments literally, that we are not to make ANY graven images, for God Himself instructed them to make such images and decorate the Temple, the House of the Lord, with them. No one seems to have a problem with the menorah or making images of almonds or trees or pomegranates, etc. Also, they made images of angels. Exo_25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. So I understand these commandments to mean that God does not want us to worship anyone or anything but Him. As long as we all understand this, and don't worship the images, then I do not think God cares about the images. Where you said, "When you went to the visitor's center, the demons who live there recognized you as a child of God and wanted you out of their house." I knew that BEFORE I went. But what you don't know is that I am surrounded by churches, and as far as I can tell, they are all that way. I listened to your getting run over by the dump truck videos and I believe that God truly did a miracle for you. Well, I've died, many times and God keeps sending me back. On one of these occasions, Jesus appeared, escorted me straight in front of God. Jesus was there with me the whole time. I did not get to see God through His Glory. So figured that meant I was going to be sent back -- and I was. I got to meet those in my family who had died who were in Christ, they were there, and I got to meet my grandchildren. At any rate, I don't worship images. But their statue of Christ does resemble what I remember when I saw Jesus, the difference was that Jesus was perfect. Most likely this was the same visitor center that you went to. One reason I picked the spot was because it is less than a block from where I used to live, and I was being a little nostalgic. I know that Mormonism is a lie, and that they lie to themselves and pretend to be Christians. So I figure that some of them might have crossed the line, read too much of the Word of God, and became Christians. I always witness to them, and tell them of Christ Jesus, and that He is the Truth and the Life, the ONLY Way to God. As for bad spirits there, I gave you an example of one. Another example is that one time when I went up to the Temple Lot and saw two demons there. They saw me and instantly fled. I'm wondering if I can't lead many of them out from Mormonism and to Christianity, and I've been trying to do that. The way I figure it is: when I am held accountable for my life and for my actions, I don't want to tell God that I was surrounded by all these pagans and did nothing about it. I don't want to come before God empty-handed. I know that I live in a time when no man can work, it was like that in Noah's time. Noah the Preacher, preached maybe 120 years, and NO converts. But at least he tried.
The Church throughout the 1950s-1960s preached intensely about how we had no greater immediate responsibility than to uphold the Constitution in the tradition of America's founders. During those 20ish years, hardly a General Conference passed without AT LEAST one address about this subject. But this message fell more on figuratively-deaf ears than not, as the Brethren lamented repeatedly. Then-Elder Benson warned us in 1965 Apr in General Conference: "Sometimes the Lord hopefully waits on his children to act on their own, and when they do not, they lose the greater prize, and the Lord will either DROP THE ENTIRE MATTER and let them suffer the consequences or else he will have to spell it out in greater detail." In another General Conference address in 1969, Elder Benson said thrice that we had a prophet but needed a listening ear. From the 1970s onward, it appears that the Lord MOSTLY dropped this matter, as he had warned, because there were only several General Conference addresses about this subject in the 1970s, a few in the 1980s, one in the 1990s, and then none for about 20 years. It's sad that we Latter-day Saints didn't listen better, statistically---but I did and others did and I'm confident that more will listen eventually, although I worry what we may need to endure before enough of us finally open our ears to hear Him about politics.
I've been thinking the same thing for a while. I've been asking how lightly have we treated the prophets? I know that I was definitely in the camp of treating them lightly as a teenager in the 2000s and even in my twenties in the early 2010s. I has only been since the wake-up call of 2020 that I think I've finally started taking them seriously, the way I was supposed to for the entirety of my youth. I've been listening to conference talks from decades in the past, and I marvel at how we seem to have ignored, in general, the stern warnings and admonitions of the Brethren. Pres. Benson saw what was coming, I'm certain of it, he was decades ahead of the events in USA. Now I listen, read and re-read the addresses from our modern General Authorities with great frequency. Even if their mouths are stopped because of the wickedness and hard-heartedness of the Saints, I hope the Spirit can reveal to me the things they wish they could say, and can't.
I am afraid we are past the point of no return. All we can do now is prepare mentally, physically, emotionally and especially spiritually. We must hold fast to Christ and learn to hear what He is telling us and I honestly haven't heard anything coming from the leadership over the past many years warning us and guiding us to a safe place. Sadly I haven't heard Nelson say anything special to us, I hear the same things coming from the self proclaimed prophets here on youtube.
I don't think it is the wickedness and hard heartedness of the members that is the problem.@@TheYgds
The members of the Church have never followed the prophet on politics. They repealed Prohibition and Utah was the deciding state.
The only good thing they do is vote Republican. The Democrats are too far left and their agenda is pure evil.
You get what you vote for and you get what you deserve when it comes to God.
The Saints don’t follow the prophet, period. Never have and never will. But will they save the Constitution from the left?
I brought up something similar to this topic at church...I said that we believe more scripture will come forth in the last days. What if it came from the wilderness? Like The Book of Mormon...I was told that happening would be highly unlikely. That the Lord would only give us scripture through "The proper channels". Sadly, I think many members today would have rejected the boy Joseph if we had lived back then.
This misconstrues the question, dangerously so. Your statement gives the idea that the Church or some members of it are closing or limiting the canon of scripture we draw from. This is false. Whether or not "more scripture" appears "from the wilderness", it still requires vetting by the proper authority. We will always have two filters against truths and untruths of the world. One is the spiritual gift of discernment, the other is the prophet's word. These are the "proper channels" that the Lord works through.
@@kalosvoss5573 You don't believe in scripture?
@ekh1821 They don't accept the real Joseph, only what others say about him.
@@kalosvoss5573 please explain how we can claim to have sole access to revelation from God? If church leaders couldn't tell the difference between actual documents or Hoffman frauds, what gives them the ability to "verify" more scripture coming from the wilderness?
Why not fast & pray and ask the Lord if he is going to or has already sent a true messenger that is teaching repentance and teaching people how to prepare for Zion? God is not going to answer us, if we have already decided what the answer is or isn't. Zion from above has not come down to meet with a zion people here yet. This must happen, and there must be a people that repents and becomes a zion people in order for them to return to. I know that if we ask God with a sincere heart, doubting nothing and acting no hypocrisy, he will guide us to the truth of all things, if that is truly what we want. Study "The Lectures on Faith" (given by Joseph Smith that used to be in our scriptures) & it can help. We must ask, in order to receive.
I've always found it fascinating that Mosiah was a king, prophet, and seer, but God called Alma, the reformed sinner and refugee from a Lamanite occupation, to start the church of God in Zarahemla.
I find it instructive that despite Alma having preached anti-monarchism prior to his reunification with King Mosiah's people, he obtained a charter from Mosiah before establishing an organized church and branches in his kingdom.
Well done, thank you for this. Looking at this modernly I have noticed many who call people to repentance or call out corruption despite their foibles are cast away, written off. In my small town I have seen political and religious bickering and division and just when we start making peace and settling waters and repenting something big happens. Here people refuse to invite and share, because they hold resentment and they favor resentment over repentance. There is corruption in key places and good ole boys yet people are falling away. I noticed when I had been removed by ambitious people the collapse of many things, things that had nothing to do with me but I am sure reflected the leadership of these corrupt and ambitious people. I am in an LDS rural community, and Niniva has a better chance of being saved. I have no authority but a testimony of Jesus Christ, you know me and my shortcomings, but I think us ordinary people have a subtle impact that collectively serves its total purpose.
People will reap their reward when even the saints claim to be Christ’s people but prefer anti-Christ behavior. Thanks Connor
I agree and hear you loud and clear.
Study D&C 101 the parable of the watchmen.... ask God what it means for our day. Study Alma 13 about the priesthood. What does it mean for our day? The Book of Mormon was written for US the LDS who are reading it! We are the ones who are told to Awaken to our Awful Situation both with Government, Our Church and Ourselves! STUDY Mormon 8. and ask God if it applies to our Church?
Amen to all of this!!!!
Nah. Those are dead prophets. Stick with the loving ones. Stay on the covenant path and the Old Ship Zion. Oh wait, Elder Ballard died. Never mind the Old Ship Zion. Just stay on the covenant path.
@@cab9191 Good thing we get more apostles called with the same power to direct us
I prayed about the Book of Mormon, and I prayed about President Nelson. I got a yes to both. I would trust my life to this Church under his direction, and I'll trust my life to his successor. You seem to be seeing phantoms of apostasy in God's organization
Why would God answer with a yes or no, to any question? Doesn’t that sound like a Magic 8 Ball, or a Ouija Board? Wouldn't he want you to have understanding? Joseph Smith said "A fanciful and flowery and heated imagination be aware of, because the things of God are of deep import, and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Your mind, O man, if you will lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost Heavens, and search into and contemplate the lowest considerations of the darkest abyss, and expand upon the broad considerations of eternal expanse. You must commune with God. How much more dignified and noble are the thoughts of God than the vain imagination of the human heart? None but fools will trifle with the souls of men."
We must seek, ask, & knock for it to be opened unto us. There are rules/commandments that must be obeyed in order to receive. We must search for them and do / live according to them and be proven in all things. If we choose to listen and do what others tell us to, instead of asking God and receive the spirit/revelation for ourself like all the righteous/prophets/teachers in the scriptures we will never find the truth that we are all searching for which brings true happiness. God will gather us as a hen gathers her chicks if we are willing. Love you.
It's interesting that in most cases these prophets we read about in the scriptures were considered absolute losers and nobodies in their time. Ether would have been practically unknown among his people. This verse stands out to me in Ether 12:5:
"And it came to pass that Ether did prophesy great and marvelous things unto the people, which they did not believe, because they saw them not."
So most people didn't even realize he had prophesied many things.
How many prophets are out there among us making prophesies that nobody even sees or acknowledges? During the Millenium it will be interesting to learn about these unknown people among us.
Find your missionaries. Ask them. Ask their mission president. You'll get plenty of examples.
I have my own missionary serving on an island in the Caribbean and he tells us about all the miracles he is performing every Monday when he calls.
Interesting to think about.
The fact that there is a hierarchy in the church necessitates an outside servant to come in to rearrange things.
And according to JST Matthew 21 the Lord sees the current leaders as miserable wicked men and will be destroyed and replaced.
Are you assuming the Church is corrupt due to it's organized structure?
It is much deeper than that.@@kalosvoss5573
@@kalosvoss5573if you dont you missed all the nasty stuff they have been saying and doing the last 3 and a half years..... from lgbt to un to nee world order to lies and seeking worldly fame its been awful
@@kalosvoss5573 by its fruits and because of its wicked traditions.
Brother Connor, I can tell that you have heard the voice of the Lord being spoken by others within the Body of Christ. Good for you for having the courage to speak on the matter. For myself, I have been surprised to hear Book of Mormon language coming from those who do not know it. These are exciting, unprecedented times! Keep speaking brother. Those with ears to hear are listening.
Jonathan Cahn a Messianic Jew always reminds me of a wilderness prophet.
Cahn is fabulous!
I was listening to another LDS podcaster and reading the comments when someone said we should look you up so I came straight over and typed in your name. The videos that came up almost shocked me with joy. It was like a smorgasbord of my favorite topics and I couldn't decide which one to try first. I have such a huge problem with worshipping the prophet that I chose this one and you did not let me down. You didn't even followup by saying "I support the prophet" after pointing out things that aren't right. I can't thank you enough.
bless you truly for your struggle and courage. “worshiping the prophet “ is one of the wicked traditions we have assimilated too. We thank God for the prophet and all those he sends to us, but mostly I believe the Holy Ghost to which we are all equally entitled too, gives anyone the huge opportunity to check anything received and being told in a prophetic way. The only thing that keeps us safe and close to God is the constant close companionship to the Holy Ghost, even said by the prophet himself a few years ago. Adding, the only thing the prophet has that separates anyone from the prophet President Nelson are the keys he holds. Being critical of suspect information or charge is not apostasy but everyones’ duty. Our Agency charges and demands ‘trust but verify’. wonderful to meet you. best wishes, Thomas
@@3blenders Thanks.
Great perspective. Love these musings. I have thought this for some time and have recently been asking my wife some of the same questions. Would we ever see Alma find Amulek in our day? What if the Lord wants to do what he has done in the past but we, not He, have shut the door and don't allow it because we have established the hierarchy we put all our trust in and look no further. For me, listening to videos and podcasts like this have greatly impacted my testimony and have helped me from leaving the faith. Even someone like Jordan Peterson has expanded my views and helped me to continue in faith.
God established the hierarchy, not us. He is in charge of it. If we're not sure that He is in charge of it, then it is both our privilege and our duty to find out. As Brigham Young once said: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." If we ask Heavenly Father in humble faith with a sincere hunger to know, and also to act according to whatever answer we are given, then He are in a great position to qualify to receive divine answers through revelation.
@@DaveGarber1975 Didn't the Pharisees essentially say the same thing?
I see Denver Snuffer in this role. I didn't look at his teachings based on what I heard people saying, but when I started to actually listen to his messages the Spirit testified to me that He has called him to say what he's saying. It's all I ever wanted to hear in GC but never do. It's a breath of fresh air, even being called to repentance. He's a true messenger of God. Dare I even say prophet? I believe him to be.
@@Kristy_not_Kristine and that’s where things get sticky. Early on in the church one of the few members found a stone that gave him revelation almost exactly like Joseph received from his seer stone. Long story short, he was being deceived and was rebuked because only the prophet will receive revelation for the church. Snuffer has this vibe in my eyes. I think the “prophets” I’m talking about or even spoken of in Lehi’s story were more like missionaries spreading the message of repentance and the truth. Snuffer is pulling people away from the established church.
@@staticrug It is like you didnt watch this at all. We are told to "come into Christ" not come into the Church. "Established Church" has been and is on shaky ground and if pulling people away from shaky ground to Christ is that not ok?
I’ve watched almost every one of your musings. I really like this one. I think you’re spot on with the pattern. You’re describing the Davidic servant to a T!!
Who is this "Davidic servant"? Please tell me it's not another cult thing.
@@archangel_one There is a scriptural precedent for a Latter Day servant from the David's line that will lead the righteous against the anti-Christ just prior to the Lord's return. Here's some info on it: th-cam.com/video/w-d3vKLaqpM/w-d-xo.html
@@archangel_oneit is in Isaiah, though that exact term isn’t used. Not sure if he is mentioned elsewhere…still need to study this out. Most Christians believe it refers to Christ. And yes, a lot of cult leaders falsely believe they are the servant. I gotta admit, though, Conner’s video does make it sound like the pattern is for God to send a servant to call repentance before destruction begins, or to prepare people to receive Christ.
@@lisatreelove9278 The term reminds me of the Branch Davidians and Joseph Smith, both false prophets and creepy cult leaders.
If you are referring to
Isaiah 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
That is Christ Jesus.
Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
FYI, I'm a servant of Christ, and I'm in the House of David -- not sure if that makes me a "Davidic servant". But I freely admit that I'm not the Messiah -- that would be my Lord Jesus Christ.
to a DJT
Best one yet! Actually listened to this one twice.
holy crap, you keep reading my mind. one of the things I always say is if Samuel the lamanite reappeared and gave a message to our people, I feel he would be condemned by KSL, the Deseret news and half of BYU. One problem is the background of our leaders. if you look they all come from academic backgrounds. Which is ok for now. however as more time passes. I don't see how loading up the church with more academics is a good thing.
Agreed, I’d like some blue collar people in there. Just a bit of balance.
God calls whom He will, for which I'm grateful. He knows best, unlike me.
True, I agree. Especially with the twelve, their careers and knowledge are helpful to us. I just also feel that it’s important that we remember that the lord can work with those of us who are lowly and uneducated but work hard. Joseph Smith is a good example of this though so we can see this example in past church history.
My thoughts go to the book of Alma and how he explains the Holy Order and one is given that priesthood…. It seems like that isn’t how the Q15 works 🤔
@@Ily779 does God need Ivy League schools to educate men to be effective leaders? In the scriptures being learned is always a hinderance. I’m not sure it’s different now.
All of this "outside of hierarchy" business is based on a host of assumptions about the church organization in the Book of Mormon and Old Testament periods.
But we have almost zero information about how the Church was organized in Samuel the Lamanite's time when most of the believers were Lamanites.
We have almost zero information about Lehi's relationship to Jeremiah. Or Lehi's background. Or his relationship to the church hierarchy.
We don't know how prophets and priests worked in Jeremiah's time whose dad was "of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin." We have no idea what the role of those prophets were, how they were organized, how one became a prophet, what their relationship was to prophets in other places, etc.
We don't know how the church and authority worked with Alma and King Noah.
We have almost zero information on the hierarchy in any of the periods or with any of the people mentioned in the video.
It's all assumptions based upon assumptions. For all we know all these prophets were INSIDE the official church hierarchy.
All we have about these ancient preachers are little snippets from which we make conjectures.
But where we DO have reams and reams about hierarchy and authority is with the Church in the Latter-days.
We have direct revelations about Hiram Page and Oliver and Huldah the Prophetess and others. We have the preface to the D&C. We know about keys in these days. We have lots of good information about what the Lord said would be his method today.
It's cool to make guesses about ancient things. But why try to contravene what we do know with guesses about stuff we don't?
The opening story in the Book of Mormon is the story of Lehi receiving revelations and ultimately leaving Jerusalem, taking important scriptural records with him. Translated into today's context, it might look something like this:
Brother Lehi in your high priest's group at church suddenly starts talking about revelations that he's getting. He starts saying that the laws of God, on which your entire society has staked its identity, won't save you. Remember, as a Jew in Jerusalem (likewise as a Mormon in 2024), you believe that you and your people have unique knowledge of how to have a relationship with the true God, and you've been called to exemplify this on a national scale, to draw all men to God. But Lehi says your entire conception of God is actually incomplete. Rather than save you by His laws, Lehi says, God will have a son with a mortal woman, and that son will save you. He fundamentally changes the understanding of the nature of God. Well, doesn't that sound like hints of impropriety? The psycho-sexual ravings of a madman, perhaps? He blasphemes the holiness of God!
To put this fully in the context of the LDS church in Utah: Later, Lehi's kids KILL THE CHURCH HISTORIAN, steal historical records from the church vaults, and escape into the West Desert in Salt Lake County. They high-tail it out to Magna, Utah.
Think of how this would be reported and perceived by the public! The murder of the church historian would be all over local news. Lehi would be regarded as a man who lost his mind and began hearing and heeding voices in his head. The national media would be slobbering over the scandal. Everybody would be absolutely sure that Lehi was a criminal, and probably a cult leader.
But the Book of Mormon says Lehi was right and the entire religious and social structure was wrong.
Certainly, this comparison is imperfect. For example, the LDS church historian does not have a private army. And there is certainly no shortage of pretenders, charlatans, deceivers, psychotics, and cultists. But this story demonstrates that the responsibility for discernment and wisdom falls squarely on each of us. There never was an ironclad guarantee that an organization of mortals with religious and political power would ALWAYS be correct. That's dumb.
There's been people for decades saying, "What if someone outside the Church has to step in and set it in order?" Even if that were to be the case that same person would still have to eventually receive the saving and exalting ordinances from the Church.
3. I was so naïve. I thought, "These guys all grew up in the church. They know the commandments and the scriptures. All I have to do is to remind them of the commandments and they will repent and get rid of the graven image. No Problem." Right? I am old enough to remember when the offices of the church were open to everybody and anybody could just walk in and get an appointment with an apostle on the spot. Times have changed. In the first place, I was surprised by all the images on Temple Square. SLC has become the Vatican of the west. I went to the Church admin building, expecting to get an appointment to see one of the apostles. I was met by the church's Gestapo who told me that if I set one foot on Temple square during conference I would be arrested. I knew it was not my time yet and I left SLC and returned home. I asked the Lord why he had impressed on me to go to SLC at that time. He told me it was so I would be eye witness to their idolatry and corruption.
Try Jesus Christ's Christians'. They are totally different from the Mormons and their Ahman Christ.
Take a look at the symbols on the SLC temple. Not good.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 Yes, I have seen the symbols. The most telling is the All seeing eye, like you see on the back of the dollar bill, an Illuminati symbol. It is a sure sign that the Illuminati has been in the leadership of the church practically since the beginning.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 You are right. One of the symbols is the all seeing eye like you find on the back of the dollar bill which is an Illuminati symbol. It means the Illuminati has been in church leadership since the beginning and have now taken over.
@@icecreamladydriver1606, Satan has taken Heavenly Father's symbols and corrupted them.
Very interesting ideas. I have wondered of late about the behavior of the present group of leaders. Also usually most countries and organizations have problems after a couple hundred years so why not the Q15?
You're missing the separating factor from all the world. Matthew 16:18 says what rock the Church will be built on. To question whether the Church is no longer divinely led either means they are falling away... or you are.
Why would the church not be able to fall into apostasy if that is what has happened time and time again in The Book of Mormon and Bible. Mankind always changes and alters God's words since the beginning of time, then falls into apostasy, and God sends messengers from him to help people of faith (those that ask God) to repent and return to the correct way again. Keep his (the Lord’s) commandments and lay everything else aside, hungering & thirsting after righteousness (taught in The Book of Mormon & The Lectures on Faith) and he will help you if you ask with real intent. Follow the path of the prophets in the scriptures, that is why they are written there. They are trying to help us and warn us, before it is too late. Seek after Him and you will find Him. He is who matters.
@@kalosvoss5573you need to get to know the people you trust before relying on the arm of flesh. There is much you do not know about your leaders. You just accept what they say when they tell you they are men of God.
@@kalosvoss5573are you implying prophets and apostles are infallible?
@@kalosvoss5573 You ignore the harsh reality that the Church under Brigham was more like the Kingdom of Noah than the peoples of Alma. The Q15 voted for it at Winter Quarters. But I take it you do not follow the counsel of the Doctrine of Covenants 88:118 and thus remain trapped in ignorance...
Very interesting thoughts and falls in line with what I’ve been feeling lately.
See the Parable of the Great Supper. in Luke 14. The Lord's covenant people are invited to the marriage supper or the Feast with the Lord. WHO is sent? The servant. This servant is not from among the covenant people. They do not recognize that he is from the Lord himself, since they do not know the Savior. It is just another dinner, another invitation, blah blah blah. They make excuses. They do not listen to the servant as they do not know the message or the one who sent the message. They see nothing of great importance in it. All is well in Zion, Zion prospereth. So the Lord sends the servant out again into the streets to the downtrodden. I would assume to blood Israel and Lehi's seed who are outside the covenant group. Many of these folks recognize or hearken to the servants message as they know the master. There still are not enough so the servant is sent out again to areas where they have never heard of the Lord and yet they come from all heathen nations. The last, gentiles who got the gospel are the first to get the message. They reject it and it then goes to Israel who rejected it thousands of years ago.
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland once said that there won't be another call-out because Zion is now worldwide and, as such, we can no longer flee from Babylon into the wilderness, but must face Babylon instead---and that, although we will not leave it, some Latter-day Saints will leave the Church.
Zion is not a state of mind, but a physical place. Do you really think we will have to "flee to Zion" to be protected from the coming evils by just staying in our Stake? This doesn't make any sense. Has this ever happened historically?
I would say that most of our church today has fully embraced Babylon and supports it. Take a drive through your average LDS neighborhood in Salt Lake or Utah County in June and there are pride flags in many yards.
So there is definitely a huge reason to justify fleeing from Babylon today.
By the way, "Zion is worldwide" is an oxymoron. Zion is not just spiritual, it is also a literal, physical place separate from the world.
Some have. When I attended BYU, some dormmates spoke about how they couldn't wait until the judgment day to laugh in the faces of homosexual folks as they were thrust down to hell. Now at BYU one can find ample pride flags. But we need both love and law, as President Oaks has explained so well.
Yep.@@fightingfortruth9806
This reminds me of how cringed i get when people in the church talk about the two prophets in Jerusalem that will be killed then rise again. They always talk about it be one of the 12. I have never felt that.
Great insight about King Mosiah. I completely agree.
Here are two interesting quotes, (Joseph Smith said this in a letter to elder Phelps, (who was the editor of Evening and Morning Star) He wrote: “for if Zion will not purify herself, so as to be approved in all things, in His sight, He will seek another people; For His work will go on until Israel is gathered, and they who will not hear His voice, must expect to feel His wrath." --then Marion G Romney: "It is imperative that they be maintained and observed here in America in order that they may go out from here undiluted to the protection of all flesh. Whether this generation of Americans will live up to its opportunity to obey and preserve them, particularly Gods law of liberty-including the gospel of Jesus Christ, who is the God of this land-remains to be seen. If it does not, the wicked among us will be destroyed, as were the wicked preceding the appearance of the risen Lord to the Nephites. God will spare the righteous and raise up another generation in this land, for out of Zion the law of God will go forth.**
It could happen.
I had a business in Phoenix, Arizona, and there were a few people that came in to my store to buy wheat grinders I was talking to one of them one day and ask him where he came from and he said, all of his people were here from Russia. They had a large community in the west part of Phoenix area, and he said that their prophet had told them to get out of Russia just before it went communist. They were the best and nicest people you would ever want to meet and really good people, and I think they did have a prophet who Told them to get the out of there.
The suppression of inconvenient church history under the sentiment of “not all truths are useful” strikes me as a secret combination.
No one is immune from human error, and per D&C 107 no one in the Church is exempt from accountability to the membership.
You should do two musings:
1) The condemnations of the church and the Lord removing His name off of the church going from the Church of Christ to Church of Latter-Day Saints in 1834.
2) reaction to Justin Griffin’s movie who killed Joseph Smith?
Why would we not hear the stinging message from the current leaders?
Do we mean prophets outside the church entirely? I think there are some good examples of truth tellers out there today.
I haven't heard any stinging messages for a long long, LONG time. I think the point connor is saying is look for truth, pray for it, seek to discern it.
The current leaders give smooth messages and tell us we are doing fine, we just need to be 1% better. I don’t think we will get stinging messages from any of them.
I have complained of this for many years. I used to complain to my husband after conference how disgusted I was with the mamb pamby crap coming from the pulpit.@@andreab7246
when Jesus visited the Nephites, he asked why the words of Samuel the Lamanite were not written in the records, their answer was crickets. then Jesus asked them to do it. So they back dated the records to include Samuel's words.
I imagine the official prophet, Nephi, felt that Samual was “unauthorized” so therefore didn’t give him any creedence. “Official” authorities are very protective of their turf from outsiders.
No, no… it does mean adulterers in the traditional sense. One of the biggest reason (according to Jacob 1,2, and 3) that Lehi fled from Jerusalem was because of the abomination of polygamy being practiced.
Equating polygamy with adultery is a pretty wild assumption.
@@kalosvoss5573 It is absolutely adultery. They break the hearts of their wives and children. Polygamy is institutionalized adultery.
@@kalosvoss5573 well call the Book of Mormon wild then and go reread Jacob 2.
@@kalosvoss5573 and the story of King Noah
Yes my dear, you are correct. That is one of the main things that God raised up seed by commanding Lehi to take his family and go. Brigham turned verse 30 into meaning that we need polygamy in order to raise up seed. Now we look at verse 30 as needing to have polygamy to produce lots of kids and they don't realize that God's seed was Lehi and those who went with him. Never has God required Polygamy from His people. There was one woman per man to populate in the very beginning, during the flood, sending Lehi away and Brigham didn't need polygamy to build up the church. That is what you call uncontrolled testosterone.
I believe Mosiah was heavily influenced by Alma to abdicate to his newly commissioned democratic kritarchy. Prior to reuniting with the Zarahemla Nephites, Alma had been preaching anti-monarchy based on his bitter experience with Noah's corrupt regime.
1:53 I've noticed how Joseph has been treated vs President Nelson. Only one was treated like a prophet.
What does that mean? "treat" someone like a prophet? I treat President Nelson with the same respect that I would Joseph. I listen to his council with my heart, and intend to apply it. What more is there to "treating" someone like a prophet??
@@kalosvoss5573 Prophets aren't treated well. Joseph is slandered, President Nelson is adored.
Yes.@@amybaker1880
I know several who don't adore President Nelson. Joseph was told that people would be divided because of him. You either love or hate the Prophet Joseph. Most people don't love prophets because they call us to repentance. I love Pres. Nelson
@@terryall4 The scriptures say a true prophet will be hated. RMN has slogans, doesn't call to repentance
Fascinating topic. Thank you for researching and musing
Ron Paul was a Samuel the Lamanite for our day. -Hot take.
Would you not consider yourself someone who has been called to preach to the people?
I think God is doing exactly what you were saying about noninstitutional prophets with work done by you and saints unscripted, and many others. And even on a smaller scale with neighbors reaching out to their communities.
The church called us ALL to be member missionaries. If we are doing so, we will be used as "prophets" too
I can't imagine God talking to a Mormon prophet, other than a call to repentance. But they have Moses and prophets and will not hear them, so...
@archangel_one what do you mean, "but they have Moses and prophets and will not hear them..."?
Is they "Mormons"?
@@akpred It's whoever won't listen to the Word of God.
For instance...
Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Mat_24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Luk_16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
@archangel_one members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aka "Mormons" love those verses, too
That's the thing about scriptures they can be interpreted many different ways. That's why in Acts 8: 30-31, the eunuch asks how he is to understand scripture without someone to guide him.
@@akpred No problem, I will guide you...
Mormonism says that god was once a man like us and that we can all become gods, which says that God is lying here:
Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
and then of course this one comes into play...
Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Joseph Smith said, "Lo, here is Christ!"
Mat_24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:26 (ASV) If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.
And of course...
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Question: Is Joseph Smith a god now?
Aren’t we fortunate that we’ve been guaranteed that Jeremiah 23 and Matthew 23 will never apply to us?! Right? I mean, riiiight?
How are we guaranteed it doesn’t apply to us? It all applies to us! It is happening right before our eyes and people are asleep to it all! The Book of Mormon was also written FOR US because WE the LDS people ARE the Gentiles talked about! Once one understands this one thing, we realize that we have been commanded to wake up to our awful situation and turn to Christ... not an eatablishment... not men who do not speak with the power and authority of the Holy Ghost... 2 Ne 28 is talking about US! We must repent and return to Christ not a church... not a building. Jesus Christ is who saves us...
@@mountain_air7244 How can you be part of this church, with it's revelatory direction and organization, and decide you are more righteous than they?
I see you are joking ;)
Christ himself follows this same pattern
Loved this musing. It is definitely a pattern that I believe was put there for us to watch for. I always wondered how people found Alma while he was in hiding from the King. How did they end up around the waters of Mormon? How did they qualify for the first group out? I want to be in that group. less death.
Praying the Saints realize ,when those who understand the evil of the covid v a x( of the Covenant endowment) have an audience with the brethren( our prophet and apostles) the power of the priesthood will be Unleashed more fully for the purpose of blessing healing those who have been inflicted with the vaccine worldwide.
You wonder if there were any in the last 200 years? Yes, I think Hugh Nibley and Denver Snuffer. Hugh was on the outside at BYU. Denver was a high councilman who wrote a book saying he had seen Jesus and everyone can. Denver's books are fantastic but he was excommunicated for his 8th book, which was about church history and was a page turner, and he fits the pattern from outside the hierarchy but in the church, he saw the Lord and he was excommunicated. Thank you for your videos, they make me think.
What does the LDS have to do with the servants of the Lord?
@@archangel_one We are authorized and endowed members of His organization on earth, given the divine charge to call the nations to repentance. "A nation of priests and kings" as Peter foretold. We are His servants, and He has blessed us for it.
@@kalosvoss5573 That's a bit vague. Who are "we"? Who is "His"? What is "His organization"? And so on.
The reason why I ask is that the LDS has different meanings to the same words.
Also, you seem to be referencing...
1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Rev_1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The Holy Bible is of course addressing Christians, not Mormons.
So far all I have seen from Nelson and others is to bow to the wicked leaders of nations. I have seen no calling of repentance coming from leaders since Joseph Smith tried to. In fact, the church got greedy and signed on to the 501-c3 to avoid paying taxes and now the evil government owns the church.@@kalosvoss5573
I am not a prophet.
I'm just a woman
who loves God.
Do you have any ideas of possible prophets from outside the hierarchy we may have discounted over the last 200 years?
Jesus was outside of the hierarchy of the local church in Jerusalem.
2. I remembered seeing the image back in the 70's in SLC and I wondered how it was that the church had a graven image when, right across the walk way, is engraved the ten commandments that clearly says, "You shall not make unto yourself graven images." I looked at the face on the image. I have seen Jesus and I knew it was not the face of Jesus, and I wondered whose face was on the image. At that time I did not recognize the face. So now when my friend was telling me about his experience, the Lord reminded me whose face it is. It is the face of Lucifer. After doing a little research, I found out the image was erected by Pres. McKay in 1966. Pres. McKay was the prophet when I was a child. We were taught to worship the man. I felt very betrayed that the supposed Prophet had betrayed the Mormon people to erect a graven image, but not just any graven image, but a Catholic graven image with the face of Lucifer on it. I felt moved upon by the spirit to do something. In 2011, I made a trip to SLC, to talk to the leaders of the church about repenting of the Idolatry.
I did alittle research... you are correct in that David McKay had the statue placed on temple Square. The image of Lucifer in the marble statue was made in 1842. The original Cristus was carved in 1833.
You seem pretty confident about the face of God... where did you see Him, relative to the many experiences of the prophets of this Church?
President Oaks said he nor any of the Q15 have seen Christ. Do a little homework and you'll find they aren't special witnesses of Christ himself but only His name.
@@kalosvoss5573 When I was 5 years old, it was the first time I remember going to Sunday School. The teacher asked me if I knew who Jesus was. I did not recognize the name so I said, "No." She went on to say he was the creator of the world, the son of God. I remembered being with them before I was born and said, "Oh yeah. I know who you are talking about.." So I guess you could say that was the first time seeing him since I was born. Then, there are dreams where I am walking with Jesus and seeing him. Then there was the time when my memory of him was fading and I saw a picture from the shroud of Turin and wondered if that was really his face, when suddenly, He was standing in front of me and everything around me was not there. The vision only lasted a moment and nothing verbal was said, but as he looked into my eyes, I felt the same peace, joy and Love that I felt when He forgave me of my sins and I was born again. Jesus lives. He is the son of the living God. He is my savior and my best friend.
If Christ were to come to SLC as a homeless preacher and were to call out the leadership and company with the sinners he would be killed in three years
The book of Isaiah prophesies of such a person. Prophet/Servant/Davidic servant/marred servant/ Hand of God.
I recommend the “Isaiah Institute” for great information!
The LDS church is going to go through the same things as the Jews. The church has become corrupt as during Lehi's time as well as Christ time. The Lord has said that the enemy has taken over His vineyard (church), and He will send another servant to take His vineyard back, throw down their tower, and scatter them. That servant is now upon the earth and is not part of the leadership. When Christ sends that servant forth, there will be a division among the church as it was during Christ time. That day is coming quickly.
This topic would make a good sacrament talk or Sunday School lesson. Boyer one part your academic does not understand is war. If US never built a military defense, you would multilingual, speaking Japanese, German, Russian, and Chinese. You like it?
Could we have a modern day apostle Paul...
Paul was ordained and confirmed by Ananias.
Where is this information found?
@@wallswithstyle He was not ordained and confirmed, but rather he was healed and baptized by Ananias (not to be confused with another Ananias who lied to the Holy Ghost or Ananias who had been High Priest). See Act 9:10-18
I vote Aron Ra for prophet. He's even looks like John the Baptist.
scripture list please?
Ron Paul!
Are you from Maine? Your house reminds me of a home I use to clean... sorry it’s kind off topic lol
C. S. Lewis types...
A split is coming to LDS Inc TM!
Check out Denver Snuffer... what are your thoughts?
A real LDS prophet would be Kwaku El. His Prophecy: "Is gay (temple) marriage on the table?"
Greetings from "Zion". REPENT! See Php 3:12-19, 1Co 1:18-24, Col 2:13-14, Gal 2:20-21, Gal 6:14. Of Joseph Smith: 1Jn 2:18-19, Mat 24:23, Mar 13:2
My great-grandmother was an Amos.
Why do you think that in the Book of Mormon God made such specific prophecies that always came true in every detail, whereas in real life nothing like this ever occurs. Do you think the Book of Mormon could be idealistic fiction?
I get that you're being contentious, but I'll take you up on the question. The Book of Mormon is a post-story review of events. It is literally the Book of (the guy) Mormon, compiled and edited by his hand. Those prophecies, while they might not have been clear at the time, were obvious in hindsight. Mormon had this hindsight, and so could point out the fulfillment of these afterwards. It is the exact same thing with the life of Jesus. Isaiah prophesied a whole lot about him that would not have been clear before or during His ministry, but is obvious to us now.
1. OK Connor you called me out. Let's see how you do. By their fruits you shall know them. The three outward signs of false prophets, 1. idolatry. False prophet always come with graven images. 2. Wealth and power. God's true prophets are humble common men, servants to the people. 3. The sheep's clothing, the uniform of the believer that hides their hypocrisy. In 2010, I was visiting one of my friends who had converted to Christ, not LDS. He was telling me about being visited by the Mormon Missionaries. He told me about them taking him to visit the visitor's center in Independence MO. In the rotunda of visitor's center is a copy of the graven image that stands in the Visitor's center in SLC. He told me how one of the elders waved his hand in the direction of the image and Asked, "What do you think of our God?" My friend replied, "Your god is a rock with a face carved on it? I am sorry, but I cannot be a member of a church that worships idols." My friend asked me if he did the right thing. I told him, Yes. I said, "Who knows whose face is carved on the image."
Are you referring to their statue of Christ? I don't think he meant that they worshiped the statue. They have a much worse problem, Ahman Christ, an impersonator.
@@archangel_one Worship is the highest form of love. When one refers to an image as their god, that is a form of worship. If they do not worship the images, it should not be a problem to take it down. The Mormons do worship the image. I went to SLC in October 2011. There were homeless people wandering the streets. Many were going to the Church welfare offices seeking help but because they were not members, they were turned away. At the same time, there was the image that stands in the visitor's center with air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter and care takers who attend to the image to keep it clean and polished, and worse yet, the tithes of the people are used to showcase the images of the church.
@@josephaney I don't know...if you saw a picture of Jesus, and said that Jesus was God, your God -- is that an idol? Does this mean you are worshiping it, or do you simply love God?
Someone gave me a little old picture of Jesus Christ as Shepherd and hung it up for me. They were very poor, I was poor, they thought I'd like it.
So I was okay with that.
Witches and worshipers of evil would sometimes come into my house, and they would go nuts! Sometimes from outside my house! I had someone force their way through my door, grab the Ten Commandments off the wall, take it outside and smash it to bits.
I don't think that they were doing this because I was worshiping the picture of Christ or the 10 Commandments, I think that they did this because I worship God.
As for not taking care of the poor and homeless ...
Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Luke 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
Luke 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
But MORE importantly...
1Cor 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
I don't think it's wrong to have air conditioning, to make visitors comfortable, to keep your places of worship clean and respectable.
I live close to one of their most holy places, and they do serve the very poor, at least once a week with a dinner.
So I guess it's between them and God -- and maybe some individual churches are more honorable than others.
And if you are still listening to me rattle on, I'll tell you something, a bit extra. One day I thought that I might die. I didn't want to die alone in my apartment and someone find out days later, partly because I was worried about my cat.
So I thought about that pretty place, the statue of Christ, air conditioning, and I decided to go there to die. That sounds wrong, I know, but I really wanted to die comfortable and looking at Jesus.
When I got there, it was like I was greeted by the devil. The guy, Elder, was accusing me -- out of nowhere, of being like Joseph Smith, you know, like with the women? It was like Satan told him to lie about me, and he did it instantly, no questions asked.
So I went outside to die. The entire time I had a study of Acts chapter 3 playing on the phone. Instead of looking at Jesus, I was looking at the pretty flowers, part of "God's Creation."
Probably about a half hour later, my heart stopped hurting so bad and started beating right, so I went on home.
It's just something to think about.
@@archangel_one Thank you for your reply. I agree with what you are saying for the most part. Speaking of idolatry, the sin is initiated by the people in power who set up the images. Let me start by telling the the reason for the commandment. There is a fine line between art and idolatry. God said, "You shall have no other gods before me." If you want to know the gods of the people, look at their images. In other words, Gods was saying, you shall not set up any images between him and you. He is saying, "Do not look to an image to save you or comfort you. Look to me and I will heal you and comfort you." There are no true images of God or Jesus. There are only false images to deceive the people. The devil inspires false images to deceive the people to put those images between us and God. The spirits of demons can inhabit images so when people think they are looking to God, when they look to an image, they are looking at a demon disguised as God. When you went to the visitor's center, the demons who live there recognized you as a child of God and wanted you out of their house. I believe God was showing you how deceptive the devil can be. He puts on a show of beauty and peace but his habitations are full of death and evil. When I was young, I felt a bad spirit in the Visitor's center and rarely visited it, knowing that the there was a graven mage there. I was eventually kicked out of the church for being a born again Christian and because I would not deny my relationship with Jesus. God bless you, my friend to find the truth. You will not find it among the Mormons anymore.
@@josephaney I believe the purpose of these commandments is because there is only ONE true God.
Listen to the Word, but also listen to the reason why...
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
I believe that these two commandments are basically the same commandment.
We CANNOT take these commandments literally, that we are not to make ANY graven images, for God Himself instructed them to make such images and decorate the Temple, the House of the Lord, with them.
No one seems to have a problem with the menorah or making images of almonds or trees or pomegranates, etc.
Also, they made images of angels.
Exo_25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
So I understand these commandments to mean that God does not want us to worship anyone or anything but Him. As long as we all understand this, and don't worship the images, then I do not think God cares about the images.
Where you said, "When you went to the visitor's center, the demons who live there recognized you as a child of God and wanted you out of their house."
I knew that BEFORE I went. But what you don't know is that I am surrounded by churches, and as far as I can tell, they are all that way.
I listened to your getting run over by the dump truck videos and I believe that God truly did a miracle for you. Well, I've died, many times and God keeps sending me back.
On one of these occasions, Jesus appeared, escorted me straight in front of God. Jesus was there with me the whole time. I did not get to see God through His Glory. So figured that meant I was going to be sent back -- and I was.
I got to meet those in my family who had died who were in Christ, they were there, and I got to meet my grandchildren.
At any rate, I don't worship images. But their statue of Christ does resemble what I remember when I saw Jesus, the difference was that Jesus was perfect.
Most likely this was the same visitor center that you went to. One reason I picked the spot was because it is less than a block from where I used to live, and I was being a little nostalgic.
I know that Mormonism is a lie, and that they lie to themselves and pretend to be Christians. So I figure that some of them might have crossed the line, read too much of the Word of God, and became Christians.
I always witness to them, and tell them of Christ Jesus, and that He is the Truth and the Life, the ONLY Way to God.
As for bad spirits there, I gave you an example of one. Another example is that one time when I went up to the Temple Lot and saw two demons there. They saw me and instantly fled.
I'm wondering if I can't lead many of them out from Mormonism and to Christianity, and I've been trying to do that.
The way I figure it is: when I am held accountable for my life and for my actions, I don't want to tell God that I was surrounded by all these pagans and did nothing about it. I don't want to come before God empty-handed.
I know that I live in a time when no man can work, it was like that in Noah's time. Noah the Preacher, preached maybe 120 years, and NO converts. But at least he tried.