Ithaca Auto & Burglar
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2025
- / forgottenweapons
Before 1934, there was no legal restriction on short-barreled shotguns, and several companies offered pistol-style shotguns for personal protection. One of the best of these was the Ithaca Auto & Burglar. These were made mostly in 20ga, but could also be ordered in .410, 16ga, or even 12ga. They were basically a short version (typically 10" barrels) of Ithaca's standard SxS shotgun action with a special stock intended to be held like a pistol.
The stock changed style in 1925, when Ithaca made some changes to the shotgun action as well. The early stocks had a small wooden spur that was reportedly fragile and prone to breaking. This replaced with a more squared-off looking design for the remainder of production.
Production and sale of the Auto & Burglar (and the other guns like it) ended abruptly in 1934, when passage of the National Firearms Act placed a massive tax on their sale or transfer. The guns had already been expensive at $40, and the NFA tax added on an addition $200 to that (this would be changed to $5 for AOWs in 1968). Obviously, nobody was going to legally purchase one of these with a 500% federal tax, so Ithaca stopped making them.
Perfect weapon for driving around in the Wasteland in my V8 Interceptor.
@igor šajinović no idea what you said besides WITNESS ME
@@shinobi-no-buenoits language of gods, you wouldnt understand
Walk away ! Leave the fuel.
@@uros3250 Jesus spoke English so why shouldn't everybody else
@@festival3051 because serbian was the first language
"It's for highway robbery. $40."
"That *is* highway robbery."
"Glad to see you know what you're doing. $40"
"40 clams"
My grandfather used to have a car gun like the Ithacas you displayed at one time. I never got to see it. He presumably sold it long ago.
It was cool to see a car gun from that era.
The government actually recommended carrying a firearm in your car back then, for exactly the reason Ian references.
I imagine this thing filled quite a few Chicago overcoats in it's day.
They were custom tailored to have narrow, inside pockets, on left and right sides. These coats and jackets were also altered to carry shells, custom, hand made, paraffin wax & steel shot mixture,great for cold weather & tight shots. As for reloading , the spent shells had to be hand removed because no ejector. Bad Ass; -/👤👥
+I Am The SONOFOVERBROOK Steel shot in the 20's? I doubt it. Steel shot came out of 60's and 70's environmentalism. Water foul dying from picking up spent lead shot at the bottom of marches etc.
+commissarpistols Oh sure they had access to ever ball bearing on the planet. :-)
I'd love to listen to old guns (if they could talk)...same for swords and artillery pieces :)
Sure, if you had the clams to get one😄
the police department I retired from had two of these in 12-guage. They were actually carried by the SWAT team for high-risk entries. We had both models and also 2 tommy guns with the drum magazines and several Ruger mini-14s. I was fortunate enough to shoot them in the Academy. Last I knew, the City sold them and modernized out team with MP5s and M40s.
"This here Ithica, is a fully, semi-automatic, pump action shotgun."
Ryan Moulder *Ithaca
How many magazine clips does it hold?
@@m.b.82 All of them
@@m.b.82 It can hold a .357 round, 9mm bump stock dual carbine clipazine with a shoulder thing that goes up, and can fire 1200 rounds of fully semiautomatic tomahawk missiles per nanosecond!. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Love the demo ranch reference
Clams, simoleons, know your onions, see a man about a dog....Ian, did someone dare you to use as much old timey slang as you possibly could in this video?
Now you're on the trolley!
I think he's just trying to be edgy
That is one of my favorite parts. Dude cracks me up.
I thought simoleons was the currency used in The Sims.
(Sorry to answer a 4 years old comment, but I had to)
Not being a native english speaker, it's always interesting to me to discover these kind of slang or expressions.
Just for a bit of trivia, here from the other side of the ocean, in France, we've got a probably not related expression:
"Ce n'est pas tes onions" ("It's not your onions") meaning something like "it's none of your business".
"40 clams" "Know your onions" We making soup Ian?
and a side of milk toast
Meat stew.
Gazpacho
This is the last time Ian recorded a video using Polaroid's Shoot N Stew digital camera and soup preparer without eating first.
Gary Seal “milquetoast”
"Auto and Burglar" sounds like a Grand Theft Auto ripoff.
GTA ripped off Ithaca!! :O
Yeah I've seen it advertised on IG
They sound like pack a punched guns
ITHACA AUTO AND BURGLAR HAS BEEN AROUND FOR OVER 100 YRS! I THINK YOU HAVE THAT BACKWARDS GRAND THEFT AUTO RIPPED OFF ITHACA!!!
Thank you so much for showing these! I grew up not far from Ithaca, as a kid I would bug my Dad until he would take me to a gun shop that was also near Ithaca, in Freeville, NY, the shop was named Hughes or Hugh's? I would spend as much time as Dad could take, drooling over all the firearms, every once in a while I was allowed to pick one up, I always asked before touching! One day while browsing at the shop another customer walked it, the shop owner came out of the back with one of these Auto & Burglar to show him. I was remember the owner saying he had recently taken it in, 1968 would be just about the right time frame. It was the early style grip and I believe it was in 20 ga, I remember him saying he tried hitting some clay birds with it but had no luck. I have always remembered that day and have seen photo's of these Auto & Burglar's since but the one I saw that day never exactly matched the gun in the shop because it was pistol grip shaped but had no spur. That always had me wondering, but now that you explain the spur often broke that makes perfect sense why what I saw that day differs from the photos I have always seen! Thank You for taking me back to great days gone by! BTW, my first rifle was of course an Ithaca, a Model 49 .22 that my Dad bought me at that gun shop. It is sitting in a gun cabinet behind me, a gun cabinet my Dad handed down to me, it was made by his father. Funny thing is my Dad never fancied firearms and didn't care for hunting but he never deterred me.
Are you even still alive?
I wish I had the clams. And I ain't no stool pigeon.
I am getting some *_Mad Max: Roadwarrior_* vibes from these sawed off.
Or Mississippi's weapon in "Eldorado".
Or El Mariachi's shotty.
"I can't believe they made a weapon marketed at carjackers and burglars."
Should have said "aimed", would have been a good pun.
@@IxodesPersulcatus either you forgot to switch accounts or you don't know you can edit comments
@@jorixonian I'd like to know what that was about. Hopefully he doesn't have alzheimer's and he's just a weirdo.
I can only imagine the deafening roar lighting one of these off in an enclosed car
Eian, you have a great channel. I have been watching a lot of your videos these last few weeks and I have to say you do a really great job. The way you cover the history and function of each of the weapons you review is very enjoyable to watch, and the format of your show ties it altogeather to make for fun and enlightening experience. Keep up the great work and don't stop reviewing the odd ball weapons.
+Mark Schwartz Thank you!
+Forgotten Weapons I have watched many weapon related youtube videos and though a lot of what I have seen come from very well versed people in the area of firearms very few of them have what it takes to make a quality youtube production. Your channel is one of the few exceptions.
That was some swell lingo buddy, I thought I was in the roaring 20's there for a minute. Great vid.
"Forty clams, expensive"
"To afford one you'd better know your onions"
Ian, I appreciate your vernacular and implementation of euphemism. Your discussions are like a box of chocolates.
Ah yes the perfect CQC weapon. I remember the days I was deployed under a task force where I picked these up from a militiaman in Brazil and was able to shoot my way out of the favelas keeping my life preserved. Truly was an experience I'll never forget.
MW2 reference
A friend of mine owns one of the early models, with a really cool leather scabbard/holster, in 20 gauge.
A 12 ga black powder version is called Diablo. They are $499 and are mailed to your door. The recoil is mild.
This is the most amazing coincidence. I just saw one of these in a shady pawn shop yesterday with a $900 price tag. It was a .410
I should mention, I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. No chance it's registered.
+Jacob Hughes that's because it was made before the NFA passed, so i don't think they have to be registered, they would have been grandfathered in(similar to preban[pre 1994] "assault weapons" in states that still have the clinton era AWB.)
+Mockturtlesoup1 Well if anyone wants it, it's at Smokey Point Pawn in Arlington, WA condition around 15-20%
+Jacob Hughes Isn't .410 NFA exempt for being able to fire 45LC?
Nice touch working in the 20's vintage lingo, Ian! :D
The NFA is a serious piece of idiocy to be sure. As if gangsters are actually going to pay a $200 tax to own a gun to commit crimes with...and even if they were willing to pay it, $200 was chump change to some of the big gangsters of the 20's and 30's!
One has to wonder if the politicians of the 1930's were really that stupid, or if they had another agenda in mind when passing the NFA aside from stopping criminals. Hmmmmm!
+WhiteCavendish Stopping communists was quite high on the list. The state of New South Wales banned .303 british for awhile when they feared a communist uprising.
This is a must watch about the NFA. th-cam.com/video/1VWcGwPJQfc/w-d-xo.html
Yes, look at NYC and Big Tim Sullivan and the NYC Democrat Party and the racist laws enacted against Italian immigrants, so as they could not own firearms.
The point wasn't to "get them to pay". It was to have another charge the DA could stick on them, like the tax evasion charges they got Al Capone with. Do you know how that happened? It's because he didn't file his "illegal income" form on the IRS tax returns, so he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Even if you can't get them for racketeering, mobsterism, and murder, you can at least get them for tax evasion and illegal firearm ownership, and slap 10-15 years on them for that in Alcatraz. Keep them in poor enough conditions and they'll die of heart failure or pneumonia long before that sentence is up.
@@whiskeyinthejar24 America was worried about blacks and Italians, not communists. Communists were usually poor, like blacks, too, but attacking the races and immigrant groups was easier and smarter at the time. It's very hard to attack a communist because he might be a well connected state senator. It's much easier to attack the recruiting pool of anarchists and poor folk who constitute the vanguard party's foot soldiers.
Also America was just plain racist and probably thought it would be funny.
It's a shame ithaca gun co. Is no longer around. I would love to see a remanufacture of some of their more iconic firearms now a days
Where’s the 4 gauge “elephant and rhino”?
Or Horse & Bugger
That's the Broken & Wrist model.
we have an h&r handygun in the family that my greatgrandpa bought back then. he worked for the railroad
I have a special fondness for Ithaca Guns. My first gun was an Ithaca .22 and I’m from the area.
So freaking cool. As I'm sure other people have noted, this a Mad Max weapon if I have ever seen one.
Havnet seen one of those in Decades. My Police Dept had one in 20Ga, that we used to use for Bank Escorts, they sold it off in 1988. IIRC it was a 1933 production model.
The recoil must have been atrocious. If they had not been effectively "banned", they would have gotten the nickname, "wrist breaker". It is amusing that a black powder "howdah" version can be purchased today and mailed directly to your house.
+J.L. Roberts The grip of the later models are called wrist wreckers in common language
+J.L. Roberts Such blackpowder versions are also legal in the UK, as long as they're muzzle-loading.
+J.L. Roberts Not in all states... :(
Not if they're muzzleloaders. Replicas are fine. Tons of replica muzzleloading shotguns, revolvers, pistols on the market. Fired a few of them myself. Of course, held on a section 1. If they're like ones in the video, those are Section 5 unless held for Humane Dispatch of animals.
Well, without a license to hold those as antiques would be impossible, unfortunately as they were not manufactured over a hundred years ago and are chambered in a non-obsolete calibre.
So if you want a pistol made in 1900 chambered in .320 British, it can be held without a license, but one of those? Section 5 or humane dispatch, I'm afraid.
So much old slang here.
Pfft, you don't know how many clams a shilling? You clearly don't know your onions.
Well, Ian *_is_* roughly 2000 years old.
I suppose the Firearms Act was passed to make things safer for the roadside bandits. Too many of them getting killed.
Damn Ian going with the slang of times I love it having fun with it
Love the lingo you should do more vids with the slang of the day
Love all the time appropriate word/phrase usage. well played sir.
Clams, onions, milk toast. Ian has food on the mind.
+Red McCloud Mmmm....milk toast....
Forgotten Weapons Holy crap, Ian actually responded to one of my comments!
Lol that's what I was thinking
so it was safer in the cities back then because of fear of carjackings in the wilderness?
my, how times have changed
"Old Pattern: 4500
New Pattern: Did Not Sell"
I dont blame whoever passed on it, it looks atrocious
Two things of note. These still had a follwing by police up into the 60s and got mention in a number of books. I remember reading they were meant to be fired with both hands. A holster was also available by Ithaca to place over the steering wheel in case you needed it on the road.
The period lingo is a nice touch :)
holy lingo. milktoast?
+j0nthegreat I loved it, there were a lot of phrases being turned in this one. :D
+j0nthegreat Milquetoast.
+Forgotten Weapons yeah, i researched it just now. you're so full of knowledge
+j0nthegreat Wilbur milquetoast to be specific. www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-mil1.htm
Haha right?! "Know your onions"?!
I once had an Ithaca 12 gauge so I recognize the guns are Ithaca. Sears sold the guns.
Thank you , Ian .
Similar to but nicer than the short barreled snake charmers I've seen used back home in Texas to deal with the many resident serpents.
And that's what you call a blaster!
He's really stepping up the colloquialisms this time around.
Just imagine what disadvantage you would be at if the highwayman had brought a A5 to a party and all you had was this 😂
then it depends on who gets the first hit.
oh ian you tease me so, showcasing a shotgun other than the pancor is only getting me more anxious for the pancor.
Ooooh Ian's getting a puppy cool
+spleenya I think he's gotta go pee pee,
in Texas we say," gotta go see a man about a horse"
but then again everything's bigger in Texas....
That was grandpa's not so subtle way of declaring he needed to shit.
I'd like to see a modern version of the first grip made for the Mossberg Shockwave. I wouldn't want the horn to be quite that tall, but a little extra support at that location would help. I wonder whether someone could make a Shockwave version of this gun with 14 inch double barrels, a 26 inch overall length, and the horn handle. That gun in a 20 gauge would be fun, particularly if someone would make some low-recoil 20 gauge ammunition.
That 20's slang made my day!
One guy enters in a gun shop...
-Hi, I want an auto and burglar shootgun
-Sorry, those are illegal...
-Ok, I want a paralell shootgun, and... Where is a hardware store near, please?
Peppering it with 20's lingo was a nice touch.
Definitely these shotguns belong in a mad Max movie
Loved the slang, Ian. Keep up the good work!
"Drop the vernacular"
"It's not a vernacular, it's a doiby!"
Ithica made the coolest shotguns I’ve ever seen
Hi! Thank you for these very interesting and informative videos! However I would like to recommend you to add the year that the auktion will be Held in order for these videos to stay for a long time on TH-cam! Alternatively record them without saying the date when the auktion is Held and only show that in the notis below, that I assume can be charged once the auktion date has passed.
The references at the end hahahah wow
Ithaca really knows what shotgun fans like
The early model was built on the "Flues" patent action while the later one used the "NID" (New Ithaca Double) action.
Great job on an interesting model!
Damn Ian, all the sayings in this video are hilarious. “know your onions “ “40 clams” “ milquetoast “ “see a man about a dog” “samolians””. 😂😂😂
Another case of form follows function! Excellent video as always. Thank you!
We still use short barrelled shotguns here in the UK, shot pistols for pest control, usually .410 and sometimes bigger or smaller.
No we don't
The period at the end of "Stand and deliver."
I pray for the day when the NFA gun laws are declared unconstitutional and void.
+raider762 To quote another post I made;it is unconstitutional; The Supreme Court has already stated in at least 3 previous opinions including "Heller" that "you can no more restrict weapons by type than you can ban literature by format" something closely worded like that. But no one bothered to follow up and dismantle the law to bring it in line with that ruling. Under these rulings the ATF has been operating illegally for at least 5 years by enforcing the NFA. And yet no one does a thing to stop them, not even the NRA.
+David T Ok thanks, good to know. And that is one reason I am not an NRA member, they won't go after the NRA laws. Why don't we as citizens sign a petition to put Voiding the NFA laws on the 2016 ballot and finally get a chance to get rid of this unconstitutional law? If all the gun channels of youtube band together it might be doable.
+raider762 Quite a lot of full auto owners are incredibly against that though sadly, they bought their guns thinking they would make bank when its time to sell them and if full autos are legal they stand too loose a shit ton of money.
Ya I remember a local shop owner was braging about how he bought 3 M2 browining 50 cal at 12k each and sold 2 of them 10 years layer for 45k each
I honestly believe the NRA has been infiltrated by Brady Campaign operatives at the decision making levels.
I dropped out of NRA a few years ago because of their doctrine of supporting any incumbent who might have once done good deeds for gun owners, even when they have long since turned on us and hindered us at every turn. They support our incumbent enemies in many races, often against solidly pro-gun newcomers.
My grandfathers, my father, and myself, were all NRA members at one time or another. Unless they change their ways, which doesn't appear likely, NRA will never see another dollar from me.
An ideal protection weapon when the unmentionable ancients locked up in your basement start harassing your house staff.
Interestingly, in Australia when someone says they need to “see a man about a dog”, it’s a humorous and somewhat indelicate way of saying that they need to go and have a shit. It derives from rhyming slang where a ‘bog’ is itself slang for opening one’s bowels. Not sure that is what you were referring to. Certainly, it’s a legitimate reason to have to conclude a video presentation. Love your videos.
The thumbnail is a average example of Bethesda’s gun design.
I live right by Ithaca NY. Wonder if it was manufactured around here.
I once held a Harrington & Richardson Handy Gun., same as these two. Man I can see why they were made illegal. You could just put one in an overcoat pocket, pull it out and devastate someone. Weird gauge though in 28 gauge. . Shame to not be able to have one now.
I have one with an old pistol stock from 1812, with the hammer ball on the end
mad max gun. wasn't there another movie, a western were the dude had one of these. he had poor eye sight so this would be a better chance to get a hit. Thanks Ian, this is better than game of thrones, you don't know what's next.
that was one of the John Wayne Rio movies like Rio lobo, he had a holster for it too
Hi Ian, great video. Just to give an idea of how much 40 dollars was back then, it was nearly 1 months pay for an average worker.
I'd love to stop by Rock Island in a Pershing... Do they have a range that can accomodate something like that?
I probably should be supporting you on patreon for all the videos I’ve watched. I would be a definite lock for patreon though, if you also made it a regular thing to use slang from the same period as the guns you’re presenting.
Looks like the perfect weapon for when demons kill your beloved pet rabbit while you're on Phobos and you need revenge.
In Fitzgerald's The Cruise of the Rolling Junk he and Zelda discover that the only way to deal with an armed highwayman is to drive straight at him.
There is not a cop in the United States that would not take you to jail if he caught you with one or both of these guns
Forgotten weapons, Looking at the two guns side to side, and considering your dominant hand as a 'pivot point' relative to recoil, wouldn't you expect the older version with rounded handle to have a lower 'pivot point' than the square handled arm? To me it appears that the square handled pistol places the recoil in a direction closer to in-line with your entire arm, where the rounded handled pistol places the recoil above the shooters arm (not only that but to an angle that almost maximizes recoil).
Just wondering if you think this could have been a transitional piece to the near 90 degree pistol handles we see today.
Thanks.
well that gun looks like one "force of nature"
"Have to see a man about a dog"? Here in Newcastle, people used to say this when they wanted to go to the pub to drink Brown ale, hence its nickname " the dog". Random trivia.
Ian said, "Not cheap, about 40 clams." That doesn't sound terribly expensive, till you realize just how bad inflation is. In 1922, that $40 would be equivalent to about $664, 2022 dollars, and by 1934 that would be $830, 2022 dollars. In 1934, the $200 tax stamp to own one of these guns would be $4,161, 2022 dollars.
Pretty sure you managed to throw in a Mad Max (Or A Man and his Dog) reference in there, Ian ;)
+Jimmy De'Souza Huh, I didn't know that! Not too fared on the 1920's/Prohibition Era Lingo :)
200 dollars in tax doesn't sound that much, but calculated to inflation it's near 2,500 USD today.
I wonder how many people lost some fingers when firing this monster. Nothing to stop your fingers going over the muzzle and I doubt anyone ever fired it one handed.
"come in Pershon" ..... nice Sean Connery impression ! ahhaha
People forget that in the late 19th and early 20th century up till about 1930, there were large parts of the U.U. where if you were on a road between two towns, you were really on your own. And especially in the 20's there were car jackings and just drunks and crazies who could try to force themselves into your car containing your wife or family. So, a weapon like this was not uncalled for in some enviornments....hey, how many MAC 10's, Uzi pistols and TEC 9's are under dashes today in certain darling areas....
The older one (with spur) is a Flues and the other one is a NID.
Beautiful guns wish I had either guns.
For anyone who's wondering:
To see a man about a dog (or see a man about a horse) is an English language colloquialism, usually used as a way to say one needs to apologize for one's imminent departure or absence - generally euphemistically to conceal one's true purpose, such as going to use the toilet or going to buy a drink.
The original, non-facetious meaning was probably to place or settle a bet on a racing dog (or horse).
Great example of the NFA encouraging crime instead of stopping it. So are these two both 20 gauge? How easy is it to reach that safety?
Unusual number of quirky quips today. Funny stuff.
"I have to go see a man about a dog." LMFAO Lots of period correct language in this vid Ian!
Got a couple of uncles who sometimes need to see a man about a horse
"I have to go see a man about a dog"?? Is this the origins story for forgotten doggos?
It’s a shame those things aren’t as common or accessible today. Is that 1926+ model adapted from a nitro special?
cant you register it as a pistol like you can with a rifle without stock or is it aow and sbs
I'd really like to see something like this in a .410/45lc configuration as a non-aow pistol. The only one I've seen like that so far is a cheapo leniad/cobray that's basically a long barrel derringer.
Italian Firearms Group makes a near replica of the Auto Burglar. It is pretty but it ain't cheap.
"Not your average Milquetoast." "Know your onions." "40 clams." Ian, are you hungry?