Heddwyn Richardson putting the X in wouldn't achieve anything. The only thing the X does in the sliding X anchor is stops the carabiner from passing over the limiter knots and off the end if one arm fails. The quad anchor does that by having 4 strands and as mentioned in the video, you never clip all 4 so it doesn't detach should an arm fail.
@@Ceryniful It would, you would be able to then clip all the strands (including say 2 twisted) and therefore theoretically be stronger. Although clipping 2 strands is probably as strong as you'll ever need
clipping 2 strands with 1 biner and the other 2 with another biner is the only option I was taught. Otherwise the biner can slip over the knot and the biner/bolt that blew out and you hit the deck
Great video! If I were to use two carabineers for redundancy, would it be even more redundant if I clipped each carabineer into a different set of 3 strands, instead of both into the same 3 strands? Or would this cause some issue I'm not thinking of when the carabineers are sliding around, like slightly 'twisting' the strands and weakening or degrading them?
It will add a level of redundancy but “how much” is what you should ask yourself. Think about it - the extra biner over the 4th strand will provide redundancy only if all 3 if the strands that the first biner is clipped to break. You’re backing up a doubly redundant system already (1 strand that is backed up by another 2 strands). But think about the risks also - Each piece you add to the anchor adds complexity (=more risk of getting it wrong). It may also affect the self equalising ability of the quad if the added strand gets in the way of the biners moving freely as the direction of pull changes.
Any way to build the quad over tree branches? like without clipping? I've got 2 branches. it's for hoisting equipment. I usually use the fake-equalizing overhand knot or figure 8 and looping both branches with a fishermans. (hard to explain, but basically the fake "equalized 3 piece anchor setup")
I recently took a workshop where the instructor taught me to use two carabiners at the master point, each clipped into two separate strands of the quad. It worked great for top rope climbing, with one rope through both biners. Is there a disadvantage to this method?
no, no disadvantage in using two carabiners there. a friend of mine was taught in his training to put both biners on the same two strands. to me it seemed like 2 biners on 2 different strands would be safer but he was under the impression it was safer to have both the biners on the same 2 strands.
Using two carabiners is great for top roping as it creates a wider radius for the rope to run though which reduces wear on the rope and carabiners. Having both carabiners on the same or separate strands does not seem to make a difference when top rope belaying or climbing. I use what you described for top roping because it feels safer to have all four strands clipped but it is still safe and redundant to be clipped to 2 or 3 strands.
Alex Suydam you can use nylon webbing if that’s what you’re talking about . Pre stitched is ideal but if you have to knot them together use a water knot backed up with a single fisherman as close to the other knot as you can and this works just fine
Nylon yes, but I probably wouldn't with dyneema as if one piece were to fail, the system would be shock loaded- this isn't too much of a problem with cord or nylon as they do stretch a bit but with dyneema, it's almost completely static and your second piece may also come out
You would only clip 3 of the 4 strands if you're top-roping off of it. If you're belaying your partner up to a bolted anchor, you would clip yourself to 2 strands, and belay your partner off of the other two. And, you absolutely can use a quad for a 3-piece gear belay. Really, there are more than enough quality instructional videos out there, done by certified guides. If you don't have certification backing up your knowledge, it's really dangerous to offer instruction that a beginner could mistake as authoritative.
Clipping 2 strands give you 2 masterpoints - which in my opinion is the main advantage the quad has over a sliding x with limiter knots.
Is it possible to put an x into the configuration also or would that make it redundant again?
Heddwyn Richardson putting the X in wouldn't achieve anything. The only thing the X does in the sliding X anchor is stops the carabiner from passing over the limiter knots and off the end if one arm fails. The quad anchor does that by having 4 strands and as mentioned in the video, you never clip all 4 so it doesn't detach should an arm fail.
@@Ceryniful It would, you would be able to then clip all the strands (including say 2 twisted) and therefore theoretically be stronger. Although clipping 2 strands is probably as strong as you'll ever need
clipping 2 strands with 1 biner and the other 2 with another biner is the only option I was taught. Otherwise the biner can slip over the knot and the biner/bolt that blew out and you hit the deck
Would it be safe to clip to all four strands by creating a sliding X with two of them?
when he says 3-meter sling does is that the length of the cord or the length when its doubled over (made into a loop)?
Really nice and simple setup...and nice video :)
Can I shelf in the master point unused loop while securing from the top?
Great video! If I were to use two carabineers for redundancy, would it be even more redundant if I clipped each carabineer into a different set of 3 strands, instead of both into the same 3 strands? Or would this cause some issue I'm not thinking of when the carabineers are sliding around, like slightly 'twisting' the strands and weakening or degrading them?
It will add a level of redundancy but “how much” is what you should ask yourself. Think about it - the extra biner over the 4th strand will provide redundancy only if all 3 if the strands that the first biner is clipped to break. You’re backing up a doubly redundant system already (1 strand that is backed up by another 2 strands). But think about the risks also - Each piece you add to the anchor adds complexity (=more risk of getting it wrong). It may also affect the self equalising ability of the quad if the added strand gets in the way of the biners moving freely as the direction of pull changes.
Any way to build the quad over tree branches? like without clipping? I've got 2 branches. it's for hoisting equipment. I usually use the fake-equalizing overhand knot or figure 8 and looping both branches with a fishermans. (hard to explain, but basically the fake "equalized 3 piece anchor setup")
I recently took a workshop where the instructor taught me to use two carabiners at the master point, each clipped into two separate strands of the quad. It worked great for top rope climbing, with one rope through both biners. Is there a disadvantage to this method?
no, no disadvantage in using two carabiners there. a friend of mine was taught in his training to put both biners on the same two strands. to me it seemed like 2 biners on 2 different strands would be safer but he was under the impression it was safer to have both the biners on the same 2 strands.
Using two carabiners is great for top roping as it creates a wider radius for the rope to run though which reduces wear on the rope and carabiners. Having both carabiners on the same or separate strands does not seem to make a difference when top rope belaying or climbing. I use what you described for top roping because it feels safer to have all four strands clipped but it is still safe and redundant to be clipped to 2 or 3 strands.
Would it be advised against to make this anchor out of a webbing (tape) sling?
Alex Suydam you can use nylon webbing if that’s what you’re talking about . Pre stitched is ideal but if you have to knot them together use a water knot backed up with a single fisherman as close to the other knot as you can and this works just fine
Nylon yes, but I probably wouldn't with dyneema as if one piece were to fail, the system would be shock loaded- this isn't too much of a problem with cord or nylon as they do stretch a bit but with dyneema, it's almost completely static and your second piece may also come out
@@benschuster9792 nylon is far from dynamic enough to absorb such load, the dynamic rope in the system is what absorbs the load.
You would only clip 3 of the 4 strands if you're top-roping off of it. If you're belaying your partner up to a bolted anchor, you would clip yourself to 2 strands, and belay your partner off of the other two.
And, you absolutely can use a quad for a 3-piece gear belay.
Really, there are more than enough quality instructional videos out there, done by certified guides. If you don't have certification backing up your knowledge, it's really dangerous to offer instruction that a beginner could mistake as authoritative.