Thank you very much Sebastian! I'm a huge fan of your videos! I took a lot of inspiration from your own raymarching code for this project, it was a big help in getting everything to work properly haha
@RenderingUser Wolfenstein 3d is also technically 2d, the difference to this is the height of each screen column is dependent on distance from the player
@@4Kslimythis is very uninformed way of looking at this. There's no such thing as half a dimension. Wolfenstein 3D is actually a 2D game with a 3D renderer. DOOM is actually a 3D game, as the game logic actually accounts for all three dimensions. The 3D renderer is rather limited, hence the simple level geometry and objects rendered as sprites. But objects actually do move in 3D space, i.e., movement up and down is possible and accounted for. This is not the case in Wolf3D, where the game all takes place in two dimensions and then projects a 3D image to the screen.
@@4KslimyThis is closer to Wolf3D, but if Wolf3D only ever printed one pixel (or a single coloured vertical line) for each horizontal position on-screen.
We had to read Flatland in high school. I had very low expectations: 1: it's old 👵 (1884), and 2: it's a math book 🥱. Turns out it reads in a surprisingly modern way, and is written in an engaging "storytime" sort of way. I recommend checking it out if any of that seems remotely interesting.
I honestly loved it! Honestly, I wish I had to do an assignment on it because, asides from mathematics, there's so many themes! How people automatically distrust anything they don't understand, how one can start to think about complex situations, how people also seem to dismiss theoretical possibilities just because they haven't yet viewed it.
How to make 1D game Step 1: take one row of pixels from a 3D game Step 2: stretch the row of pixels to be visible Step 3: add fog You have now made a 1d game!
Holy hell man the editing on this is crazy. The entire video is really high quality, and overall it’s great. Everything is explained well, edited well and it’s awesome. Props to you.
You should not be using a line for 2D. It should fill in the whole width of the screen. A flatlander have no perception of height and hence it can only be described as bands filling whole viewport. Cheers
I've seen a million videos where people randomly talk about ray marching, but this is the first time the explanation actually hit me correctly. Congrats man, this is actually a great explanation of it The thing that snapped me out of it, was the explanation of signed distance functions. It finally makes sense that the proportional distance motion is actually computationally good, this is very cool.
If a Flatlander has two eyes, he could in principle get stereoscopic vision, with each eye creating its own line,which is slightly different from the one from the other eye. Using the parallax effect, that could result in him seeing the world in some kind of weird, but true 2D. It won't be the 2D version that we are used to, as he cannot see what is on the other side of object, from his vantage point, nor can he see what is inside the outlines of shapes, like we can. But he would be able to see shapes (at least the front part of them) and evaluate the distance to them.
So when we say we watch a “3D” movie with two different images that merge in our brain, it would be like these flat land creatures saying they are watching a “2D” movie by watching this type of content with a different image in each eye to give depth perception to this line.
I don't think sdf is necessary here. Visually each object is made out of lines that have a gradient to them, you can probably just render them back to front like a normal polygonal game and it would probably take less processing power. Video was well put together though!
Dude this video is amazing, I never would have known how much thought needs to go into something that sounds very simple - rendering some 2D shapes and walking around. The editing and explanations were also top tier, and have massively improved since you've started posting. Definitely one of the better videos you've made!
I think the fog and colors can be tweaked a bit, no, a lot, to make it more readable. Fog could be the loss of saturation to an extent, going to blackness only at an extreme range, or if there's no source of light. Try adding sources of light, cause why not. It's confusing when the shadows move when you move, light and fog should be different. How about expanding FOV using the thickness of the line to represent what's in front and what's peripheral vision? Try to make a building, like the one in the Flatland cover. To balance it so the objects, sizes and stuff make sense. Make a kind of boundary around the camera/eyes of the character, so you can't or it's obvious when you stick your face in something making the visibility null. Kind of like inverse fog or a character's visual or non-visual sense for distance. Using Y axis and patterns, perhaps like a checkered transparent pattern of increased intensity for the object too close. Or add a second eye, making parallax possible. Run it cross-eyed, or... It's still a 1d game, even if you need 3d setup to run it with parallax.
I got this recommended and watched through the whole video without realizing it's not a million views video from a huge channel. Good job, It was super interesting and informative! You gained a follower :)
I explain the difference in the video, the most basic form of raymarching is just that - marching along a ray, with a constant length. Distance-Aided Raymarching, or Sphere-Assisted Raymarching, is the style you mention and that I implement later in the video!
I think thickening the line to be the full height of the screen is more accurate to a flat lander, because just like how we don't have empty grey space for the 4th dimension, their whole vision is this line. I'd love to play this as a full game, be it a shooter, an RPG or anything, just feeling like a resident of this world. maybe even have the flat land experience of learning what the 3D world looks like to your 2D character when the sphere shows up and lifts you.
You extended the height of the render and suddenly I was reminded of how the rendering on Wolfenstein 3d was done. So yeah... I think the game you described has already been done. XD
So what I’ve discovered from watching this 3D see things in 2D (if you look with 1 eye there is no depth perception) our eyes are like the camera, since we have two there are two cameras 2D beings see things in 1D because it’s a single line 1D beings would be blind because they see no dimension
You're absolutely right! Things that see, see in one dimension less than they exist in. However a small correction would be that a 1D being would see in 0 dimensions, which is usually interpreted as being a single point. So the vision of a 1D being would be one point (or, if we're talking a video game representation, it could be a single pixel).
I luv the idea of a world just a line And I love the game you made .. ... I actually tried to imagine how it would be if I was in a 2d world before .. And came to the conclusion that it is impossible .. In order for a line to exist in the real world it should have a height (the third dimension) no matter how thin the line is When the height is 0 it basically disappears..... .. 2d is only possible in math and Measurementing ... But its still fun to imagine yourself in a really thin world.. like having my eyes in the edge of my body in order to see lmao....and can't have a Digestive system or a mouth because that will divide my body into 2 parts💀
at the start i though you were insane for starting this, and actually seeing something, but as the video progressed, at around 4:30, i understood, this is so awesome, very good job man
I had a lot of fun optimising my 2.5D raycaster. It calculates intersections with line segments after making a few attempts to do basic culling. The main issue is that the floorcasting texture isn't correctly aligned.
I made a game for school that was very similar to this concept, it was just a simple game where you had to find the exit portal in randomly generated mazes, I didn't know about ray marching, but I implemented the simple marching with fixed size steps, I also added height that varies with distance to help with depth perception
I think it would make more sense to stretch the line to the full height of your screen/window, because imo an infinite "height" of just the same repeating line makes more sense of representing something that has no "height" variation than a limited height view does. It could also be interesting to see a 2d patformer from first person, where the width is infinite.
I love how most of the comments i see either have a creator comment or a creator like, and it shows the actual passion that he must put into his community. i think that deserves my subscription
@nivmiz0 I love the way you portrayed this topic I've seen it done before but never quite as well as you have like it answered some questions that had been left unanswered before or undressed so I hope I get to see more of this quality content you are making and please keep up the most amazing work.
There is perspective in 2d, since the rays coming out of the camera aren't parallel. Beings in flatland would be able to tell distance like that, and they could also use stereoscopic vision if they had more than one eye.
It's totally possible to remove that edge distortion from high FOV. It's a solved problem for raycasters and it involves either spacing out the rays unevenly so they land on the view plane with an even spacing, or emitting them from a view plane (although this would presumably harm perspective projection).
@@Uni_974 maybe, maybe not. Ultimately what really matters is how used our brain is to that particular projection. Since it differs from the projection we're used to seeing it looks weird, really we'd need a brain with eyes that worked like that. Not a necessary or sufficient trait of being 2D.
This was super interesting! The editing and graphics really helped me understand this better (because it was *really* hard to grasp when we talked about it lmao).
This is literally what I always tought for a long time, but I would think it as a vertical “line” because I was thinking it from a side wiew perspective
well I mean, 2D and 1D are fairly simple, and we're built to understand the comparatively more complex 3D. However, it is impressive that we're able to understand the vastly more complex 4D
@@ack7 I know about 4d golf. same principles apply: you still cant get a full visual of the scene like a 4d being would. the ghosts are decent at providing one, but they still cant be seen when they overlap objects in your current 3d slice, you cant tell whether theyre coming from ana or kata, and the opacity isnt that good at telling you how far they are. you also still need to look around the 3d space whereas a 4d being would be able to see it all at once
you could just use tall 3d models with base of needed shape and apply depth buffer in shader. the result would be the same if not smoother gradient for rounded shapes and much more performant. also mask could be applied to control players visibility
Yeah, but what would be the fun in that? I was trying to make a true 2D/1D engine, not to fake it! If I was trying to make a GAME in this perspective, I'd probably lean more towards your idea, but that really wasn't the goal here haha.
@@nivmiz0 hehe. can't remember who exactly said it: "we are not in a business of making engines, we are making games". anyway video was super entertaining
This is really interesting to me for the connection to 2d SONAR arrays... the output is very similar to your games display, except you usually have the previous outputs scrolling down the screen so you can see the relative movement
Awesome video you make! I think Mar1d have proved that it is possible to make a true 2d game, with perspective, by making the lines smaller in distance. Thanks for the explanation! I subscribed your channel. :-)
In a 3D world, having 2 eyes is what allows us to see 3D. If we close 1 eye, we just see a 2D image. Similarly, in a 2D world, a character with only 1 eye sees 1D. But if they also have 2 eyes, they could actually see 2D. This could perhaps be somehow interpreted as line thickness.
@RBXDEV2024 do you care to elaborate? Very few things are impossible to think about mathematically. A 1d world would have a position for every number on the number line and a 1d 1st person perspective would be drawing rays between positions. So a 1d being would see one color on their left and one on the right and as they move and as they moving closer or farther the color gets dimmer or brighter.
I’m surprised you went with ray marching and signed distance functions. I think rasterization (project and draw the objects into the scene) or ray tracing (perform ray-object intersection tests analytically) would be much more efficient and perhaps easier to program too.
I think you would not need raymarching for that. You can simply created a 3d environment in unity, and a camera moving around like a player, but it can only move on a plane. Then only show the center row of the render output and override all other pixels to black using post processing?
Have you ever heard of Wolfenstein 3D and the raycasting method it used to build it's "3D" environments? basically what you did, but the pixel's height is dependent on it's distance to the camera. Also you might want to consider shading one side of the shapes darker than the other to help with readability.
5:16 if im reading this right (havent read sources) youre actually doing a panoramic projection of the scene, not a planar one so the shapes are distorted and bendy. its harder to tell because 1d but if you were to add tops/bottoms to the "walls" like wolf3d then youd be able to see it
it sounds and looks like they are doing a planar projection, as I'm pretty sure that a panoramic (or I suppose circular, really) projection would preserve shape at the edges of the screen.
I've seen it since publishing this! Yeah I'd call it a first person 2D game, in the spirit of Flatland, but it's probably also a legitimate interpretation to say it's 1D
Nice project. The only criticism I have, is that the "flatlander" is walking on empty space. In reality, it would need some kind of surface/planet to traverse on, and the planet would just be a massive circle the same way that gravity makes our planets massive spheres.
It's a cool project. I think you should make a game out of it. For example, a FPS with wall-like covers and AI enemies, that use pathfinding. I also recommend adding a multiplayer.
I think what you said about depth in the fog section is questionable since your game did have perspective and depth before adding the shading Edit: for instance, you can tell something is further away from how little its size changes when you move, and you can tell what shape something is by viewing it from many angles. You should be able to tell apart the regular polygons by measuring how the width varies with distance and angle, even without a static reference point I didn’t make it clear im talking about mathematically rather than practically
i thought about something " to have a 2D vision, you need one 3D eye, to make a 3D vision you need two 3D eyes. Maybe if you make two 2D eyes like you did with lines, that could be good for a flatland view. two lines that you crossed to make ( one 2D eye is a line, then two 2D line should be how they see 2D.... )
There are actually plenty of 1d rendering engines that already exist, moreover, these 1d rendering engines are actually used to render 3d graphics, raytracing is commonly used for this, for each X coordinate send out a ray then depending on how long it took for that ray to hit something change the height of the vertical line for that x position, however, this is 2d, or is it? Realistically, the height is irrelevant, it's just there to help portray the ray length, you could easily replace it with something like brightness, brighter colors are closer darker are further. Also, this notably means that you could theoretically portray a 4d environment through the same method, however, in both cases this does a little bit of trickery, in the 1d case all it's really doing is swapping the y axis out for a z axis which makes the game appear 3d when in fact it just traded one axis of movement for another, and in the 2d case it'd be doing the same thing but to achieve the illusion of 4d graphics, and of course it's actually swapping more than just one axis of movement, it also sacrifices the color element to achieve this, color isn't typically thought of as an axis of movement but in a sense it really is, technically making all 2d games 5d due to red, green, and blue components of color, all of this adds up to make this idea a little funky.
interesting. it's cool to see people experiment with spatial dimensions like this. reminds me of SCP-3966, which iirc also took inspiration from Flatland one thing im curious about is why you're using ray marching at all. would it not be easier to, for each pixel, perform a ray/object intersection test against every object in the scene, remembering which one is nearest? though i suppose SDFs might not be usable that way; you'd need a unique ray/intersection test for each shape or, failing that, a ray/edge intersection test used once per edge per object. hm... math was never my strong suit anyway, fascinating project
It's strange that you recreate the Doom which is 2,5D game that shows the 2D world in 3D and you have chosen an algorithm that struggles to render a single line. It is an interesting experiment that reminds of an 7D indie game that I played years ago. It uses simpler rendering to orient yourself more accessibly The developer of the game is Marries van de Hoef, the game was called Seven Dimensions and was developed during 7dFPS about 10 years ago. I was unable to find it now
Haha, a lot of people have made the comparison to Doom, but under the hood it's a pretty different implementation iirc. Either way, I'm not sure why you say that my algorithm struggles! The game runs at a pretty consistently high fps on my pretty bad computer, though of course when recording clips for the video the recording software lowered performance a bit, so it might seem laggier than it should be in the video. I'll look into that 7D game! That sounds super interesting.
I've seen this type of representation for 2D a couple of times and there's one thing that doesn't sit right with me. Your renderer aligns to what a character in a top-down world would see (e.g. Binding of Isaac). However, wouldn't it make more sense from a gameplay perspective to do a side-view inspired rendering system, similar to what Mario would see? The camera would be vertical rather than horizontal, and you would be able to look up and down. You could move forward and back, and you'd be able to jump. You could even allow the character to flip vertically and turn around like Mario can, if you want the player to be able to see where they're going when they move backwards. With that type of world, you could actually implement gravity, and consequently, a physics system. You'd be able to represent many games more easily. You could also place your 2D character in a 3D world and add back in left and right mouse movement, and it would translate to that medium easier than with a flat plane system.
Yep, that's another legitimate interpretation of "First-Person 2D". But I think you may be slightly overlooking the problems of turning around, getting past objects in front of you and parsing the view to understand what's going on. This view is, at least in my opinion, a more intuitive way to explain the concept. However, I still think your version is interesting! I may make an implementation of it in a follow up video.
@@nivmiz0 You'd have to rethink the way depth is represented because you can't really feel out objects in the same way. I think a fog effect or something like that would work. Objects far away are dark/foggy and as you get closer they become brighter. I can imagine you'd be able to at least do Mario style parkour like that. And jumping would help a player feel out the level too as you can reveal more/less of an object by viewing it from lower or higher positions.
That could help indeed. However, in "Flatland" (both Abbott's book and its two movie adaptations), Flatlanders only have one eye, positioned at one of their vertices.
Really Really Impressive to me, just before the end i was actually just thinking, what if he stretched the entire window's height? and also the bullets thing which i swear i actually tought he was gonna add that before i reached to the end, but still impressive work!
wipsom - Today at 12:05 AM The psychology behind Red Dead Redemption 2 is actually quite genius, I wouldn’t be surprised if psychologists had been part of its development. The game starts by introducing you to the protagonist, Arthur Morgan, but tells you very little about him. He is nothing more than a stranger, a mere fictional character to the player. The player, therefore, has no problem with cold-blooded murder and other heinous crimes. But then, the player begins to see how they can relate to Arthur. How he has his ups and downs. How he has friends, some closer than others. Even subtle things, such as his movements, body language, or facial expressions. Even how he forgets the lyrics to songs he’s singing with other camp members. The player begins to get attached to him, get immersed in the game and its realistic graphics, see him as a friend, perhaps. This is usually timed perfectly with when Arthur realizes that he is a bad man, and that he needs to change. The player, who now also sees the extreme realism contained within the NPCs, mere background characters, who have lives, families, jobs, in this virtual world, begins to feel bad for what they do to NPCs, and also feel that it is not right to let Arthur do something wrong. They want to help a friend, as all good friends do. WARNING: SPOILERS! On the final mission, when Arthur loses his horse, the player may not know that Arthur will die in just a few minutes. They will be angry, and sad, that their horse has been killed, completely out of their control. Then they will see Arthur give his stuff to John. This is when they will realize what is coming and that they cannot stop it. They will either choose to help John or go get the money. Whatever they do, they will fight Micah, and they will lose. They have no other option. They will see the person that they have spent every moment of the game with, die. Out of their control. They will be sad that he died, and also sad that the game is over. But then they will see that they have come back. As John. And they will be happy that there is more game, but still sad that they can no longer play as Arthur, even though they were wishing they could play as John again in the beginning of the game. One failing point, however, is the gang members, especially Hosea and Lenny. The game makes it clear that their deaths hit Arthur pretty hard, but the game doesn’t have you interact with them enough to make it hit the player. Lenny was many people’s favorite gang member, but his death should have impacted the player just the same as Arthur’s death. Hosea was even worse. The player only knew Hosea as the man who raised Arthur, but never got to interact with him much. At least Arthur and Lenny had fun at the saloon in Valentine.
Neat!!! I saw someone else do the same thing with the 1D view, but they never really elaborated on it, nor did they include any game mechanics. Really impressed that this wasn't just a repeat of that video! I already typed a prior comment that joked that your video was clickbait(yeah I've become a bit of a squidward cause of the clickbait & (bad)commentary slop online that I've bore witness to), glad I deleted it. Will refer back to a copy of its contents to remind myself of my cynical nature & that I need to get better and touch some grass every once in a while.
Thank you! I think different dimensions are an amazing mathematical concept and I've always been interested in visual representations of them. As for why I used raymarching, I've wanted to experiment with the algorithm for a while, and I felt like using it in this context would give it my own unique twist! It was a really fun project to make, and an interesting coding challenge. Plus, it's an excellent system for rendering! It works great, it's quite fast when run on the GPU, and it can render many more shapes than most other techniques, with minimal performance difference. There are of course many other ways to solve the problem I solved here, but I really do think my implementation is a pretty good one.
can you create Mario or Flappy Bird with vertical line renderer with Mario or bird's point of view. I mean, now that you've made a top-down game with a horizontal renderer, can you make a side-view game with a vertical renderer?
id love to play a game like this, though i find it a bit strange that you cant really tell where vertices are, for example if you see a cube in a 3D world on a 2D plane its very clear where the edges n vertices are since theyre typically darkened or theres a significant change in brightness due to how shadows work, i think that wouldve been quite helpful to help visualize the surroundings
Implementing light and shadow properly in a world like this has its own issues, which I may go into in the follow up video. It has to do with the fact that if a light were to be obscured by a single object in flatland, it would cast a shadow behind it for the length of the entire world. Anyway I'm tackling the issue of differentiating between shades at the moment!
Did you fix the fisheye effect? Because of the perspective, it's hard to be sure, but there were a few times that it looked fisheye-ee. Without fixing the fisheye effect, it's possible to see a bright spot in the middle of an edge and think that there is a vertex in that bright spot.
Nice work! :)
Thank you very much Sebastian! I'm a huge fan of your videos!
I took a lot of inspiration from your own raymarching code for this project, it was a big help in getting everything to work properly haha
WHERE DID YOU COME FROM SEBASTIAN LAGUE
whens the next digital logic sim video coming out
- first person 2d game
- look inside
- wolfenstein 3d
This game is still 2d tho
@RenderingUser
Wolfenstein 3d is also technically 2d, the difference to this is the height of each screen column is dependent on distance from the player
@@TheJas-vr2vrSo just like Doom it’s 2.5D because it uses some 3D aspects but it has some 2D parts as well
@@4Kslimythis is very uninformed way of looking at this. There's no such thing as half a dimension. Wolfenstein 3D is actually a 2D game with a 3D renderer. DOOM is actually a 3D game, as the game logic actually accounts for all three dimensions. The 3D renderer is rather limited, hence the simple level geometry and objects rendered as sprites. But objects actually do move in 3D space, i.e., movement up and down is possible and accounted for. This is not the case in Wolf3D, where the game all takes place in two dimensions and then projects a 3D image to the screen.
@@4KslimyThis is closer to Wolf3D, but if Wolf3D only ever printed one pixel (or a single coloured vertical line) for each horizontal position on-screen.
We had to read Flatland in high school. I had very low expectations: 1: it's old 👵 (1884), and 2: it's a math book 🥱. Turns out it reads in a surprisingly modern way, and is written in an engaging "storytime" sort of way. I recommend checking it out if any of that seems remotely interesting.
I absolutely fell in love with it! Cool to hear you did too (:
I honestly loved it! Honestly, I wish I had to do an assignment on it because, asides from mathematics, there's so many themes!
How people automatically distrust anything they don't understand, how one can start to think about complex situations, how people also seem to dismiss theoretical possibilities just because they haven't yet viewed it.
What do ya mean a "math book" I've read it and I don't remember anything math related
@c7iC--s7ick because it addresses the theory of multiple dimensions and it's listed as "mathematical fiction"
@@jadecboom8638 what i meant was i only remember it telling the story like a "fantasy" fiction novel (nothing smart sounding)
How to make 1D game
Step 1: take one row of pixels from a 3D game
Step 2: stretch the row of pixels to be visible
Step 3: add fog
You have now made a 1d game!
that's pretty much exactly what i thought would be done lol
Step 4 give 2D being a GUN
Oh no, i edited the comment and the heart i got from it got deleted :(
is that not still a 2d game?
How about a first person 1D game...
It would just be one pixel.
this editing is phenomenal!
gives me 2 hour youtube documentary about something you have no idea about vibes.
Lmao, that's basically how it felt making it. Massive deep dive into a SUPER niche subject
Wait you mean that’s possible? Time for me to make some videos!
Holy hell man the editing on this is crazy. The entire video is really high quality, and overall it’s great. Everything is explained well, edited well and it’s awesome. Props to you.
Thanks so much! It took like 10x longer than my other videos to make, glad it seems it was worth it!
@@nivmiz0 What is your strategy?
You should not be using a line for 2D. It should fill in the whole width of the screen. A flatlander have no perception of height and hence it can only be described as bands filling whole viewport. Cheers
the section at 11min where u talk about it being a 3d illusion looks pretty similar to how we originally did the first 3d games.
I had that thought to actually! reminds me of Wolfenstein & Doom
I've seen a million videos where people randomly talk about ray marching, but this is the first time the explanation actually hit me correctly.
Congrats man, this is actually a great explanation of it
The thing that snapped me out of it, was the explanation of signed distance functions. It finally makes sense that the proportional distance motion is actually computationally good, this is very cool.
You have no idea how happy I am to hear that! Thank you!
It's incredible how intuitive it was the second you added the fog
1:10 But the games are 2D, the only thing that isn't 2D here is us. Just because the game is not perceived in 2D doesn't mean the game isn't 2D.
Brother basically created doom
Doom is 2.5D
@4Kslimy Doom is fully 3D. Just limited. Dont believe me?: th-cam.com/video/ZYGJQqhMN1U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0GS7_rNc6hjIqBNw
@4Kslimy Doom is 3d but limited. Theres a video on this on yt but i cant send the link here
A 1D fatality would be kinda dope though
Nah that'd be more like wolfenstein.
Time for speedrunners to find a glitch to go into the third dimension... WHY YOU GOTTA MAKE MY JOB HARD
Nuh there going to glitch walk perpendically instead
If a Flatlander has two eyes, he could in principle get stereoscopic vision, with each eye creating its own line,which is slightly different from the one from the other eye. Using the parallax effect, that could result in him seeing the world in some kind of weird, but true 2D. It won't be the 2D version that we are used to, as he cannot see what is on the other side of object, from his vantage point, nor can he see what is inside the outlines of shapes, like we can. But he would be able to see shapes (at least the front part of them) and evaluate the distance to them.
in the book they only had one so yeah
So when we say we watch a “3D” movie with two different images that merge in our brain, it would be like these flat land creatures saying they are watching a “2D” movie by watching this type of content with a different image in each eye to give depth perception to this line.
I don't think sdf is necessary here. Visually each object is made out of lines that have a gradient to them, you can probably just render them back to front like a normal polygonal game and it would probably take less processing power.
Video was well put together though!
Dude this video is amazing, I never would have known how much thought needs to go into something that sounds very simple - rendering some 2D shapes and walking around.
The editing and explanations were also top tier, and have massively improved since you've started posting. Definitely one of the better videos you've made!
Thank you so much yoyo
I think the fog and colors can be tweaked a bit, no, a lot, to make it more readable. Fog could be the loss of saturation to an extent, going to blackness only at an extreme range, or if there's no source of light. Try adding sources of light, cause why not. It's confusing when the shadows move when you move, light and fog should be different.
How about expanding FOV using the thickness of the line to represent what's in front and what's peripheral vision?
Try to make a building, like the one in the Flatland cover. To balance it so the objects, sizes and stuff make sense.
Make a kind of boundary around the camera/eyes of the character, so you can't or it's obvious when you stick your face in something making the visibility null. Kind of like inverse fog or a character's visual or non-visual sense for distance. Using Y axis and patterns, perhaps like a checkered transparent pattern of increased intensity for the object too close. Or add a second eye, making parallax possible. Run it cross-eyed, or... It's still a 1d game, even if you need 3d setup to run it with parallax.
Thanks for the suggestions! These are really interesting. If I make a follow up I'll for sure look into them!
I got this recommended and watched through the whole video without realizing it's not a million views video from a huge channel.
Good job, It was super interesting and informative! You gained a follower :)
Thank you so much! That's such high praise (:
Yeah seeing more 1D content does put a smile on my face :)
Rays in raymarching don't step by a constant amount, they step by the distance to the closest object ( minimum of all objects' distances )
I explain the difference in the video, the most basic form of raymarching is just that - marching along a ray, with a constant length. Distance-Aided Raymarching, or Sphere-Assisted Raymarching, is the style you mention and that I implement later in the video!
I think thickening the line to be the full height of the screen is more accurate to a flat lander, because just like how we don't have empty grey space for the 4th dimension, their whole vision is this line.
I'd love to play this as a full game, be it a shooter, an RPG or anything, just feeling like a resident of this world. maybe even have the flat land experience of learning what the 3D world looks like to your 2D character when the sphere shows up and lifts you.
There's a guy named MashPoe who made a whole 1D game exactly like this, this kinda reminded me of it
This is actually super neat. I wonder how other characters would appear and how would they be distinct from non character shapes.
It's an interesting challenge for sure!
Very cool concept, man. The final result was impressive
You extended the height of the render and suddenly I was reminded of how the rendering on Wolfenstein 3d was done. So yeah... I think the game you described has already been done. XD
i cant imagine what it would be like to live in 1d
So what I’ve discovered from watching this
3D see things in 2D (if you look with 1 eye there is no depth perception) our eyes are like the camera, since we have two there are two cameras
2D beings see things in 1D because it’s a single line
1D beings would be blind because they see no dimension
You're absolutely right! Things that see, see in one dimension less than they exist in. However a small correction would be that a 1D being would see in 0 dimensions, which is usually interpreted as being a single point. So the vision of a 1D being would be one point (or, if we're talking a video game representation, it could be a single pixel).
I luv the idea of a world just a line
And I love the game you made
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I actually tried to imagine how it would be if I was in a 2d world before
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And came to the conclusion that it is impossible
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In order for a line to exist in the real world it should have a height (the third dimension) no matter how thin the line is
When the height is 0 it basically disappears.....
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2d is only possible in math and Measurementing
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But its still fun to imagine yourself in a really thin world.. like having my eyes in the edge of my body in order to see lmao....and can't have a Digestive system or a mouth because that will divide my body into 2 parts💀
at the start i though you were insane for starting this, and actually seeing something, but as the video progressed, at around 4:30, i understood, this is so awesome, very good job man
Thanks so much, this means a lot!
Godly editing style, good job
Thanks man! Appreciate that.
I had a lot of fun optimising my 2.5D raycaster. It calculates intersections with line segments after making a few attempts to do basic culling. The main issue is that the floorcasting texture isn't correctly aligned.
I made a game for school that was very similar to this concept, it was just a simple game where you had to find the exit portal in randomly generated mazes, I didn't know about ray marching, but I implemented the simple marching with fixed size steps, I also added height that varies with distance to help with depth perception
So cool to hear you did something similar!
I think it would make more sense to stretch the line to the full height of your screen/window, because imo an infinite "height" of just the same repeating line makes more sense of representing something that has no "height" variation than a limited height view does.
It could also be interesting to see a 2d patformer from first person, where the width is infinite.
I love how most of the comments i see either have a creator comment or a creator like, and it shows the actual passion that he must put into his community. i think that deserves my subscription
I appreciate that so much!
@nivmiz0 I love the way you portrayed this topic I've seen it done before but never quite as well as you have like it answered some questions that had been left unanswered before or undressed so I hope I get to see more of this quality content you are making and please keep up the most amazing work.
There is perspective in 2d, since the rays coming out of the camera aren't parallel. Beings in flatland would be able to tell distance like that, and they could also use stereoscopic vision if they had more than one eye.
It would be interesting to see how it looks for you to move the 2d plane through a 3d space, could be pretty cool
the non "distance aided" raymarching isn't called raymarching, it's ray stepping
It's totally possible to remove that edge distortion from high FOV. It's a solved problem for raycasters and it involves either spacing out the rays unevenly so they land on the view plane with an even spacing, or emitting them from a view plane (although this would presumably harm perspective projection).
Or you could get a 2D brain works too
@@Uni_974 maybe, maybe not. Ultimately what really matters is how used our brain is to that particular projection. Since it differs from the projection we're used to seeing it looks weird, really we'd need a brain with eyes that worked like that. Not a necessary or sufficient trait of being 2D.
This was super interesting! The editing and graphics really helped me understand this better (because it was *really* hard to grasp when we talked about it lmao).
Yoooo this was sick dude! I would love to see you expand this! And maybe make a real game from it!
This is literally what I always tought for a long time, but I would think it as a vertical “line” because I was thinking it from a side wiew perspective
Futurama delved into this concept, where you can’t see around something in 2D Space.
All of this is really cool, ngl, and the fact our brains can comprehend it is impresive as well
I really agree! It's pretty insane that we can just use these simple tools to pretty accurately simulate living in a different spatial dimension!
well I mean, 2D and 1D are fairly simple, and we're built to understand the comparatively more complex 3D. However, it is impressive that we're able to understand the vastly more complex 4D
@@ack7we cant fully understand 4d, although we can calculate it and understand facets of it
@@circumplex9552 Me who has played 4D Golf: *Foolish Mortal, you have not one modicum of the understanding I possess*
@@ack7 I know about 4d golf. same principles apply: you still cant get a full visual of the scene like a 4d being would. the ghosts are decent at providing one, but they still cant be seen when they overlap objects in your current 3d slice, you cant tell whether theyre coming from ana or kata, and the opacity isnt that good at telling you how far they are. you also still need to look around the 3d space whereas a 4d being would be able to see it all at once
Wait is that a 3D and 1D game
Using SDFs for this feels like shooting sparrows with cannons. Ray-casting would be way more efficient giving you the same results. Nice video though.
this is awesome, loved the video :)
you could just use tall 3d models with base of needed shape and apply depth buffer in shader. the result would be the same if not smoother gradient for rounded shapes and much more performant. also mask could be applied to control players visibility
Yeah, but what would be the fun in that? I was trying to make a true 2D/1D engine, not to fake it! If I was trying to make a GAME in this perspective, I'd probably lean more towards your idea, but that really wasn't the goal here haha.
@@nivmiz0 hehe. can't remember who exactly said it: "we are not in a business of making engines, we are making games". anyway video was super entertaining
This is really interesting to me for the connection to 2d SONAR arrays... the output is very similar to your games display, except you usually have the previous outputs scrolling down the screen so you can see the relative movement
For more context to what I'm getting at, you can look up "passive sonar waterfall display"
Awesome video you make!
I think Mar1d have proved that it is possible to make a true 2d game, with perspective, by making the lines smaller in distance.
Thanks for the explanation!
I subscribed your channel.
:-)
5:22 isn't there some correction for this kind of distortion that is occurring at the edge of the FOV to make it appear more natural?
In a 3D world, having 2 eyes is what allows us to see 3D. If we close 1 eye, we just see a 2D image. Similarly, in a 2D world, a character with only 1 eye sees 1D. But if they also have 2 eyes, they could actually see 2D. This could perhaps be somehow interpreted as line thickness.
Amazing video! That really reminds me of the way Doom projects 2D map as 3D environment. But rather than adding a dimension, we remove one.
Thank you!
so it's basically what people would call a 1d game
1d can’t technically exist
@RBXDEV2024 do you care to elaborate? Very few things are impossible to think about mathematically. A 1d world would have a position for every number on the number line and a 1d 1st person perspective would be drawing rays between positions. So a 1d being would see one color on their left and one on the right and as they move and as they moving closer or farther the color gets dimmer or brighter.
extrude the row upwards than divide the height by the distance of said pixels for a doom like 3d effect, I've used this for 3d in scratch
I’m surprised you went with ray marching and signed distance functions. I think rasterization (project and draw the objects into the scene) or ray tracing (perform ray-object intersection tests analytically) would be much more efficient and perhaps easier to program too.
As someone who read flatland in my physics class, this is cool
Man, who would knew that making a 2d game with a 1d perspective would take this much time
The video took AGES
Reminds me of a scratch tutorial I watched once, they also used raycasting but the final effect was „3d“
When NivMiz mentioned rays my immediate thought was "I've used a simple version of that in Scratch!" haha
In order to see in 3 dimensions you have to be a 4 dimensional being yourself
''We viewing a 2D world with a 1D view on a 2D screen in a 3D world through a 2D viewpoint'' I love it😂🔥
From the perspective of a 3D creature watching at the side, yeah, that's accurate.
You should try porting this to 3ds, the need for fog would be mostly eliminated.
Or you could render standard 3d but don't allow up/down pan and only display the center scan line...
I think it would be a bit better if you used the distance to the shape to smooth it out a bit more
I think you would not need raymarching for that. You can simply created a 3d environment in unity, and a camera moving around like a player, but it can only move on a plane. Then only show the center row of the render output and override all other pixels to black using post processing?
Dangerous drinking game: take a shot every time compute shaders come up on gamedev youtube.
Have you ever heard of Wolfenstein 3D and the raycasting method it used to build it's "3D" environments? basically what you did, but the pixel's height is dependent on it's distance to the camera.
Also you might want to consider shading one side of the shapes darker than the other to help with readability.
5:16 if im reading this right (havent read sources) youre actually doing a panoramic projection of the scene, not a planar one
so the shapes are distorted and bendy.
its harder to tell because 1d but if you were to add tops/bottoms to the "walls" like wolf3d then youd be able to see it
it sounds and looks like they are doing a planar projection, as I'm pretty sure that a panoramic (or I suppose circular, really) projection would preserve shape at the edges of the screen.
This reminded me of the video "I made a 1D Game" by Mashpoe, they ended with a similar result, but they argued it was 1D instead of 2D
I've seen it since publishing this! Yeah I'd call it a first person 2D game, in the spirit of Flatland, but it's probably also a legitimate interpretation to say it's 1D
Honestly a raycast maze game on Scratch fits the definition of a 2d game really well.
Nice project. The only criticism I have, is that the "flatlander" is walking on empty space. In reality, it would need some kind of surface/planet to traverse on, and the planet would just be a massive circle the same way that gravity makes our planets massive spheres.
you can just think of it as floating
or if you want to make it more believable that it can propel itself, maybe its swimming
Wow, I can't phrase how much i appreciate this channel for making such high-quality videos and aspiring to grow better every time!! #thefogiscoming
The fog is coming.
waiting for flatearthers to show up...
I think you should have the pixels stretch to fill the screen since that's easier to see and more like what a flatlander would see
Don’t forget to look at Mashpoe’s 1D game as well, it’s similar to this implementation. He also has a stereo anaglyph mode for it!
It's a cool project. I think you should make a game out of it. For example, a FPS with wall-like covers and AI enemies, that use pathfinding. I also recommend adding a multiplayer.
2D Doom 🔫
this is great! i bet sebastian lague would dig it
I think what you said about depth in the fog section is questionable since your game did have perspective and depth before adding the shading
Edit: for instance, you can tell something is further away from how little its size changes when you move, and you can tell what shape something is by viewing it from many angles. You should be able to tell apart the regular polygons by measuring how the width varies with distance and angle, even without a static reference point
I didn’t make it clear im talking about mathematically rather than practically
i thought about something " to have a 2D vision, you need one 3D eye, to make a 3D vision you need two 3D eyes.
Maybe if you make two 2D eyes like you did with lines, that could be good for a flatland view.
two lines that you crossed to make ( one 2D eye is a line, then two 2D line should be how they see 2D.... )
There are actually plenty of 1d rendering engines that already exist, moreover, these 1d rendering engines are actually used to render 3d graphics, raytracing is commonly used for this, for each X coordinate send out a ray then depending on how long it took for that ray to hit something change the height of the vertical line for that x position, however, this is 2d, or is it? Realistically, the height is irrelevant, it's just there to help portray the ray length, you could easily replace it with something like brightness, brighter colors are closer darker are further. Also, this notably means that you could theoretically portray a 4d environment through the same method, however, in both cases this does a little bit of trickery, in the 1d case all it's really doing is swapping the y axis out for a z axis which makes the game appear 3d when in fact it just traded one axis of movement for another, and in the 2d case it'd be doing the same thing but to achieve the illusion of 4d graphics, and of course it's actually swapping more than just one axis of movement, it also sacrifices the color element to achieve this, color isn't typically thought of as an axis of movement but in a sense it really is, technically making all 2d games 5d due to red, green, and blue components of color, all of this adds up to make this idea a little funky.
You could actually do path traced lighting for a game like this, that would be pretty funny
interesting. it's cool to see people experiment with spatial dimensions like this. reminds me of SCP-3966, which iirc also took inspiration from Flatland
one thing im curious about is why you're using ray marching at all. would it not be easier to, for each pixel, perform a ray/object intersection test against every object in the scene, remembering which one is nearest? though i suppose SDFs might not be usable that way; you'd need a unique ray/intersection test for each shape or, failing that, a ray/edge intersection test used once per edge per object. hm... math was never my strong suit
anyway, fascinating project
It's strange that you recreate the Doom which is 2,5D game that shows the 2D world in 3D and you have chosen an algorithm that struggles to render a single line.
It is an interesting experiment that reminds of an 7D indie game that I played years ago. It uses simpler rendering to orient yourself more accessibly
The developer of the game is Marries van de Hoef, the game was called Seven Dimensions and was developed during 7dFPS about 10 years ago. I was unable to find it now
Haha, a lot of people have made the comparison to Doom, but under the hood it's a pretty different implementation iirc. Either way, I'm not sure why you say that my algorithm struggles! The game runs at a pretty consistently high fps on my pretty bad computer, though of course when recording clips for the video the recording software lowered performance a bit, so it might seem laggier than it should be in the video.
I'll look into that 7D game! That sounds super interesting.
I've seen this type of representation for 2D a couple of times and there's one thing that doesn't sit right with me. Your renderer aligns to what a character in a top-down world would see (e.g. Binding of Isaac).
However, wouldn't it make more sense from a gameplay perspective to do a side-view inspired rendering system, similar to what Mario would see? The camera would be vertical rather than horizontal, and you would be able to look up and down. You could move forward and back, and you'd be able to jump. You could even allow the character to flip vertically and turn around like Mario can, if you want the player to be able to see where they're going when they move backwards.
With that type of world, you could actually implement gravity, and consequently, a physics system. You'd be able to represent many games more easily. You could also place your 2D character in a 3D world and add back in left and right mouse movement, and it would translate to that medium easier than with a flat plane system.
Yep, that's another legitimate interpretation of "First-Person 2D". But I think you may be slightly overlooking the problems of turning around, getting past objects in front of you and parsing the view to understand what's going on. This view is, at least in my opinion, a more intuitive way to explain the concept.
However, I still think your version is interesting! I may make an implementation of it in a follow up video.
@@nivmiz0 You'd have to rethink the way depth is represented because you can't really feel out objects in the same way. I think a fog effect or something like that would work. Objects far away are dark/foggy and as you get closer they become brighter.
I can imagine you'd be able to at least do Mario style parkour like that. And jumping would help a player feel out the level too as you can reveal more/less of an object by viewing it from lower or higher positions.
Having 2 eyes can also give depth perception.
Or they could be a cyclops
That could help indeed. However, in "Flatland" (both Abbott's book and its two movie adaptations), Flatlanders only have one eye, positioned at one of their vertices.
Really Really Impressive to me, just before the end i was actually just thinking, what if he stretched the entire window's height? and also the bullets thing which i swear i actually tought he was gonna add that before i reached to the end, but still impressive work!
Having a 2D gun is a staple in most 1D games 🔫
wipsom
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Today at 12:05 AM
The psychology behind Red Dead Redemption 2 is actually quite genius, I wouldn’t be surprised
if psychologists had been part of its development. The game starts by introducing you to the protagonist, Arthur Morgan, but tells you very little about him. He is nothing more than a stranger, a mere fictional character to the player. The player, therefore, has no problem with cold-blooded murder and other heinous crimes. But then, the player begins to see how they can relate to Arthur. How he has his ups and downs. How he has friends, some closer than others. Even subtle things, such as his movements, body language, or facial expressions. Even how he forgets the lyrics to songs he’s singing with other camp members. The player begins to get attached to him, get immersed in the game and its realistic graphics, see him as a friend, perhaps. This is usually timed perfectly with when Arthur realizes that he is a bad man, and that he needs to change. The player, who now also sees the extreme realism contained within the NPCs, mere background characters, who have lives, families, jobs, in this virtual world, begins to feel bad for what they do to NPCs, and also feel that it is not right to let Arthur do something wrong. They want to help a friend, as all good friends do. WARNING: SPOILERS! On the final mission, when Arthur loses his horse, the player may not know that Arthur will die in just a few minutes. They will be angry, and sad, that their horse has been killed, completely out of their control. Then they will see Arthur give his stuff to John. This is when they will realize what is coming and that they cannot stop it. They will either choose to help John or go get the money. Whatever they do, they will fight Micah, and they will lose. They have no other option. They will see the person that they have spent every moment of the game with, die. Out of their control. They will be sad that he died, and also sad that the game is over. But then they will see that they have come back. As John. And they will be happy that there is more game, but still sad that they can no longer play as Arthur, even though they were wishing they could play as John again in the beginning of the game. One failing point, however, is the gang members, especially Hosea and Lenny. The game makes it clear that their deaths hit Arthur pretty hard, but the game doesn’t have you interact with them enough to make it hit the player. Lenny was many people’s favorite gang member, but his death should have impacted the player just the same as Arthur’s death. Hosea was even worse. The player only knew Hosea as the man who raised Arthur, but never got to interact with him much. At least Arthur and Lenny had fun at the saloon in Valentine.
Neat!!! I saw someone else do the same thing with the 1D view, but they never really elaborated on it, nor did they include any game mechanics. Really impressed that this wasn't just a repeat of that video! I already typed a prior comment that joked that your video was clickbait(yeah I've become a bit of a squidward cause of the clickbait & (bad)commentary slop online that I've bore witness to), glad I deleted it. Will refer back to a copy of its contents to remind myself of my cynical nature & that I need to get better and touch some grass every once in a while.
Really appreciate that! Glad you ended up liking it, regardless of the slight clickbait 😉
”A first person 2d game is the easiest 3d game to create from scratch”
Can you do " for each ( ray in raycasts ) { run raycastTest(ray); } to speed up the process ?
Very nice to see more people branching out to make games in other dimensions. But I'm curious, why did you use raymarching for your rendering?
Thank you! I think different dimensions are an amazing mathematical concept and I've always been interested in visual representations of them. As for why I used raymarching, I've wanted to experiment with the algorithm for a while, and I felt like using it in this context would give it my own unique twist! It was a really fun project to make, and an interesting coding challenge.
Plus, it's an excellent system for rendering! It works great, it's quite fast when run on the GPU, and it can render many more shapes than most other techniques, with minimal performance difference. There are of course many other ways to solve the problem I solved here, but I really do think my implementation is a pretty good one.
This is crazy, loved the video
Cool information illustation, and now I finally know of a way of doing that myself, thanks for the link
That's really cool to hear, good luck with your own implementation!
can you create Mario or Flappy Bird with vertical line renderer with Mario or bird's point of view. I mean, now that you've made a top-down game with a horizontal renderer, can you make a side-view game with a vertical renderer?
That's a really good idea!
This is so cool, i hope I'll see complete game.
Thanks so much!
11:06 Ah, I just figured that you would have a strange fog look.
the video looks amazing! it feels quite close to a Sebastian Lague video
Thanks a ton! It was very inspired by his stuff, so I'm glad you think that!
id love to play a game like this, though i find it a bit strange that you cant really tell where vertices are, for example if you see a cube in a 3D world on a 2D plane its very clear where the edges n vertices are since theyre typically darkened or theres a significant change in brightness due to how shadows work, i think that wouldve been quite helpful to help visualize the surroundings
Implementing light and shadow properly in a world like this has its own issues, which I may go into in the follow up video. It has to do with the fact that if a light were to be obscured by a single object in flatland, it would cast a shadow behind it for the length of the entire world. Anyway I'm tackling the issue of differentiating between shades at the moment!
@@nivmiz0 oh that's true, and if the shadow of one object gets cast onto another object it makes it very hard to tell whether it's a shadow or an edge
Did you fix the fisheye effect? Because of the perspective, it's hard to be sure, but there were a few times that it looked fisheye-ee.
Without fixing the fisheye effect, it's possible to see a bright spot in the middle of an edge and think that there is a vertex in that bright spot.
So how we can look into 4 dimensions shape in 3 dimensions view then?