This is Jeremy here (!) - author of The Incredible Router book (1989) and a series of long established routing videos but also a total newcomer to CNC! Firstly thanks a ton for taking the time to make this video in answer to my question! Wow, I didn't expect to hear my name mentioned when I stumbled across this by chance. Also I didn't expect you to cut through 18mm plywood in one pass but maybe two or three! But at the speed you cut into it the result is pretty impressive and as you say the C beam Workbee is stronger than your machine. You sing from the same hymn sheet as I do in that when I make a prototype chair I deliberately make it on the weak side to test where the stresses are. Conversely pushing this machine to the limit I guess the worse that will happen is the bit breaks or the machine stalls but the result is a guide and this is the first time I have got an idea of what this attractive little machine can do as most videos seem to be on engraving or cutting aluminium at 0.5mm a pass. The other way you have helped me is to probably go for a similar 2.2kw spindle which allows 1/2" cutters which in my book (if the machine can take the weight as I think the guy at Ooznest muttered something about 3kg being tops and that will be surely more) there will be less vibration and a quieter cut. This has really helped me and as a thank you I would like to invite you to visit my online publications store and choose a publication for free or even my three routing video downloads. Better still Dan I can send you a signed copy of 'The Encyclopedia of Woodworking Techniques' Revised edition to be released in September. so email me from my store. The machine I am likely to build is the leadscrew version so again a bit more rigidity there presumably. www.woodomain.com
Very impressive cut. Think vastly slower feed rate and thinner bit would have added to success. Very impressed that your router was so quiet, but partly horrified that machine jogging was so noisy. Maybe 100,000 mile service cleaning & dry lube needed!!
This was actually before I upgraded the electronics. They old xPROusb was for some reason way way louder in basic moves. The new duet 3d is a huge improvement in the regards. I was surprised that the driver electronics had such an impact
I scrapped my 20 year old cnc miltronics partner 1, cnc router are so cost effective but just are not rigid enought , I an going to by a used cnc machining center with ac servo motors, older with dc motors are a nightmare
Great video,can see the last deflection happening really well. Ive made myself a similar machine, only with a 700watt diy router, still figuring it all out. Could you tell me roughly what the feed rate was for this test and/or what you have the jog speed/acceleration set too?
The spindle mount definitely needs upgrading tbh maybe aluminium collar would best, my ox is ok on 6mm ply cuts (single pass) on abs printed mount but suffers on faster deeper cuts.
Every so often I investigate buying a better mount. But never seem to find a satisfactory option. There's a company in Canada that seem I nicer one, but they don't ship internationally. Do you have any recommendations?
The kit was about £900 for everything except the spindle, which I already had at the time. Their new versions are a little more expensive but it's a more solid design
Mine is about 5.5kg of I recall correctly. Ooznest advised me the same, that they don't recommend anything over about 2kg. I decided to take my chances anyway. I did slow down my z axis to make it reliably lift. I don't think that significantly impacts the speed of my jobs.
Another test you might be interested to try out is my 'fast plunge' (vertical) method of removing stock with a router (watch th-cam.com/video/CrHFhu3TD6g/w-d-xo.html)? I presume the CNC machine could be easily programmed to cut the square of plywood. Because the router cutter has high resistance against wood fibres when cutting horizontally which is the convention, the idea of the fast plunge is that overlapping crescent shaped section cuts are rapidly plunged with little material resistance where the grain is weak and breaks away centrifugally and the debri easily escapes. This may of course not be too good for the spindle bearings, you would know better than I. I tend to use the method for cutting mortices. The final cut is conventionally 'trimmed' horizontally (with a trimming cutter) and of course the operation would apply to any shaped sections cut through stout plywood. I'm not saying the method will work I'm just interested to know what you think with your experience of CNC and the Ooznest machine. Apart from spindle bearing load, the stress would be minimal on the machine itself and the final cut very accurate but I don't know whether repeat plunge strokes would slow everything up!
That's very interesting and I'll have to experiment. I suspect the z axis speed can't go that fast, specifically on the lift when using the heavier spindle, however for pocket clearance CNC provides some pretty efficient tool paths that achieve similar benefits from controlling the amount of tool engagement during a cut. It does give me some ideas for some comparative testing :-)
It looked more like the bed moved under the load and not machine it self! Fairplay to that little cnc! Iv worked as a cnc setter/programmer for 20+ years on £100k+ flat bed routers and would never cut 18mm in one bite and at that feed rate! Lol it did quite well considering.
Ha ha that's an interesting comparison point. I'm certain the X axis carriage is the weak point at this time. Tempted to try making a carriage that holds a tighter tolerance to avoid that twist under load. But this little machine does great for the price of expectations are realistic
Hi Kado, it depends on the size of the cutter, I never go over about 40% of that diameter. Typically I do 1mm passes of I want accuracy and reliability, sometimes I rough at 2mm. Some wood is easier than others.
Maker | Geek in your opinion what is the best router between the ox and workbee because I am on the process of buying and I don't know which is better. I am planning buying the 1500x1500 gantry size
Well I can only claim experience with the OX, but from what I can tell the Workbee is intended as an upgrade from the OX, it certainly looks like the C channel should provide more rigid structure, and the ability with the smaller machines to go with belts or leadscrew is interesting. If @ooznest would like to donate me a workbee I'd happily gather a more informed opinion ;0)
It looks very much like the plywood that i got, which is poplar core with some African wood veneer. I found that this particular plywood is very difficult to work with: it's tough and "stringy" and when cutting i get lots of fibres on the edges of the cut. Even when cutting it with the circular saw i get this. When cutting pine plywood the cut is very clean though. I'm wondering if cutting a different type of 18mm plywood would yield different results. Also may depend on the speed. Anyway, thanks for sharing your results.
This is definitely nothing that fancy. I'm sure I could slow down the cut to reduce the effect, but I think it shows the fundamental flex in the carriage. If I have time this weekend I'll see how slow I need to go to keep things straight
Haha, yeah,to be fair this was a pretty aggressive move. However it is useful to understand the limits :-) also at some point is better to just take multiple passes faster than a single slow pass. Maybe I should revisit this video and see how slow I'd have to go to cut without the deflection.
@@MakerGeek I think your approach is exactly right! There is no point doing such a test unless you push the enveloppe which you boldly did. From that, as you clearly demonstrated, we can see what is going on with the mechanics of it which you analysed. From my poiut of view I just wanted to know if the 2.2 spindle could cut through 18mm ply in one pass, but when I come to operate my Workbee I will likely do it in two passes and at a slower speed. I know little about CNC other than its capabalitity fot the finest tweaking you could hope for! Part of the fun of learning is seeing how different materials are most efficiently cut. Not all hardwoods are hard or softwoods soft!
But you could do progressively aggressive cuts to find out the cut off point of Speed & Success Vs Quality! Eg 1 pass at 2/3 max speed might be better/ faster that 4 passes at optimal speed. Bit Style & Diameter, Depth of Cut & Feed rate are part of every cut optimal settings!
This is Jeremy here (!) - author of The Incredible Router book (1989) and a series of long established routing videos but also a total newcomer to CNC! Firstly thanks a ton for taking the time to make this video in answer to my question! Wow, I didn't expect to hear my name mentioned when I stumbled across this by chance. Also I didn't expect you to cut through 18mm plywood in one pass but maybe two or three! But at the speed you cut into it the result is pretty impressive and as you say the C beam Workbee is stronger than your machine. You sing from the same hymn sheet as I do in that when I make a prototype chair I deliberately make it on the weak side to test where the stresses are. Conversely pushing this machine to the limit I guess the worse that will happen is the bit breaks or the machine stalls but the result is a guide and this is the first time I have got an idea of what this attractive little machine can do as most videos seem to be on engraving or cutting aluminium at 0.5mm a pass. The other way you have helped me is to probably go for a similar 2.2kw spindle which allows 1/2" cutters which in my book (if the machine can take the weight as I think the guy at Ooznest muttered something about 3kg being tops and that will be surely more) there will be less vibration and a quieter cut. This has really helped me and as a thank you I would like to invite you to visit my online publications store and choose a publication for free or even my three routing video downloads. Better still Dan I can send you a signed copy of 'The Encyclopedia of Woodworking Techniques' Revised edition to be released in September. so email me from my store. The machine I am likely to build is the leadscrew version so again a bit more rigidity there presumably. www.woodomain.com
Haha I thought you said you were gonna go slow!!
I did, sort of. I started with that shallow pass up one side. When that seemed to work well, I figured what the hell...
Very impressive cut. Think vastly slower feed rate and thinner bit would have added to success. Very impressed that your router was so quiet, but partly horrified that machine jogging was so noisy. Maybe 100,000 mile service cleaning & dry lube needed!!
This was actually before I upgraded the electronics. They old xPROusb was for some reason way way louder in basic moves. The new duet 3d is a huge improvement in the regards. I was surprised that the driver electronics had such an impact
I scrapped my 20 year old cnc miltronics partner 1, cnc router are so cost effective but just are not rigid enought , I an going to by a used cnc machining center with ac servo motors, older with dc motors are a nightmare
Great video,can see the last deflection happening really well. Ive made myself a similar machine, only with a 700watt diy router, still figuring it all out. Could you tell me roughly what the feed rate was for this test and/or what you have the jog speed/acceleration set too?
Your desk is giving me major anxiety haha
I can't help it, I'm genetically untidy. I try to change, but everything winds up like a bomb site
The spindle mount definitely needs upgrading tbh maybe aluminium collar would best, my ox is ok on 6mm ply cuts (single pass) on abs printed mount but suffers on faster deeper cuts.
Every so often I investigate buying a better mount. But never seem to find a satisfactory option. There's a company in Canada that seem I nicer one, but they don't ship internationally. Do you have any recommendations?
@@MakerGeek Are you in UK?
Yes I am
@@MakerGeek I would like to see if one of my designs is better. Have you contact email?
What are you using for the spindle? The speed controlled manually? Or via a program?
It's a 2.2kw water cooled spindle. Speed controlled in gcode.
Did you solder any of the decay options on your system? I have a little stutter...
I did not solder any connections. When you say stutter... Do you have a video of what you mean? Is it always or only at certain speeds?
@@MakerGeek yeah it is only at slow speeds
I get the same at slow speeds. But I rarely have cause to go that slow:-)
I have it from about 300mm pr min - I will try again... Thanks for the help
Right, I'd consider 500 to be super slow. I normally run 1000-1500 depending on application
What was the price of it?
The kit was about £900 for everything except the spindle, which I already had at the time. Their new versions are a little more expensive but it's a more solid design
how heavy is your routor i was told its to heavy i still would like to get one ... any advice on it ...
Mine is about 5.5kg of I recall correctly. Ooznest advised me the same, that they don't recommend anything over about 2kg. I decided to take my chances anyway. I did slow down my z axis to make it reliably lift. I don't think that significantly impacts the speed of my jobs.
@@MakerGeek ty for the reply
Another test you might be interested to try out is my 'fast plunge' (vertical) method of removing stock with a router (watch
th-cam.com/video/CrHFhu3TD6g/w-d-xo.html)? I presume the CNC machine could be easily programmed to cut the square of plywood. Because the router cutter has high resistance against wood fibres when cutting horizontally which is the convention, the idea of the fast plunge is that overlapping crescent shaped section cuts are rapidly plunged with little material resistance where the grain is weak and breaks away centrifugally and the debri easily escapes. This may of course not be too good for the spindle bearings, you would know better than I. I tend to use the method for cutting mortices. The final cut is conventionally 'trimmed' horizontally (with a trimming cutter) and of course the operation would apply to any shaped sections cut through stout plywood. I'm not saying the method will work I'm just interested to know what you think with your experience of CNC and the Ooznest machine. Apart from spindle bearing load, the stress would be minimal on the machine itself and the final cut very accurate but I don't know whether repeat plunge strokes would slow everything up!
That's very interesting and I'll have to experiment. I suspect the z axis speed can't go that fast, specifically on the lift when using the heavier spindle, however for pocket clearance CNC provides some pretty efficient tool paths that achieve similar benefits from controlling the amount of tool engagement during a cut. It does give me some ideas for some comparative testing :-)
Look forward to your findings.
It looked more like the bed moved under the load and not machine it self! Fairplay to that little cnc! Iv worked as a cnc setter/programmer for 20+ years on £100k+ flat bed routers and would never cut 18mm in one bite and at that feed rate! Lol it did quite well considering.
Ha ha that's an interesting comparison point. I'm certain the X axis carriage is the weak point at this time. Tempted to try making a carriage that holds a tighter tolerance to avoid that twist under load.
But this little machine does great for the price of expectations are realistic
Thanks for your video. i have a Ox cnc i just build, what´s te max deep per pass you recommend when cutting wood and ply?
Hi Kado, it depends on the size of the cutter, I never go over about 40% of that diameter. Typically I do 1mm passes of I want accuracy and reliability, sometimes I rough at 2mm. Some wood is easier than others.
Thaks for your response, i appreciate it.
Is your machine belt drive type?
It is indeed, though I have double belted the X axis.
Maker | Geek what is the gantry size of it?
The machine is 1m x 1m and this test was done in roughly the middle of the cutting area which is probably a worst case in terms of flex
Maker | Geek in your opinion what is the best router between the ox and workbee because I am on the process of buying and I don't know which is better. I am planning buying the 1500x1500 gantry size
Well I can only claim experience with the OX, but from what I can tell the Workbee is intended as an upgrade from the OX, it certainly looks like the C channel should provide more rigid structure, and the ability with the smaller machines to go with belts or leadscrew is interesting. If @ooznest would like to donate me a workbee I'd happily gather a more informed opinion ;0)
Was that a poplar core ply?
Erm... No idea. Whatever they make cheap general plywood out of. It was just some construction stuff I had laying around that happened to be 18mm
It looks very much like the plywood that i got, which is poplar core with some African wood veneer. I found that this particular plywood is very difficult to work with: it's tough and "stringy" and when cutting i get lots of fibres on the edges of the cut. Even when cutting it with the circular saw i get this. When cutting pine plywood the cut is very clean though.
I'm wondering if cutting a different type of 18mm plywood would yield different results. Also may depend on the speed.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your results.
This is definitely nothing that fancy. I'm sure I could slow down the cut to reduce the effect, but I think it shows the fundamental flex in the carriage. If I have time this weekend I'll see how slow I need to go to keep things straight
8mm = 5/16
your cnc belt drive or lead screw drive ?
I have just bought a workbee 1515.
th-cam.com/video/LuC9XReQlCQ/w-d-xo.html
Mine is belt drive. Except the z axis of course.
@@MakerGeek thanks☺
Wow! Talk about throwing your bit into the workpiece... slow the damned thing down, it'd probably cut fine.
Haha, yeah,to be fair this was a pretty aggressive move. However it is useful to understand the limits :-) also at some point is better to just take multiple passes faster than a single slow pass. Maybe I should revisit this video and see how slow I'd have to go to cut without the deflection.
@@MakerGeek I think your approach is exactly right! There is no point doing such a test unless you push the enveloppe which you boldly did. From that, as you clearly demonstrated, we can see what is going on with the mechanics of it which you analysed. From my poiut of view I just wanted to know if the 2.2 spindle could cut through 18mm ply in one pass, but when I come to operate my Workbee I will likely do it in two passes and at a slower speed. I know little about CNC other than its capabalitity fot the finest tweaking you could hope for! Part of the fun of learning is seeing how different materials are most efficiently cut. Not all hardwoods are hard or softwoods soft!
But you could do progressively aggressive cuts to find out the cut off point of Speed & Success Vs Quality! Eg 1 pass at 2/3 max speed might be better/ faster that 4 passes at optimal speed.
Bit Style & Diameter, Depth of Cut & Feed rate are part of every cut optimal settings!