I would never have thought it would be possible to run a LT4 Hotcam in my L31 without machining the guides. IMO this is a game changer. Looks like I'd have a few thousandths to spare as well. Nice! Thanks so much!
Yeah, they work great and saves alot of money in machine work. Even just LS6 summit springs are enough for the lt4 hotcam. We took it up to 6200 rpm and never got valve float. th-cam.com/video/Z4F6TpO_Tic/w-d-xo.html
@@cuttersperformance I have a 99 L31 vortec in my tahoe and I was wondering if I were to run an lt4 hot cam would it still make enough vacuum to run the stock vacuum power brakes?
Great video Pat! I did most of my mods to my L31 using your older videos a few years back. I am running Comp 26915 springs, 787 retainers, Crane 99095 +.050 keepers, Felpro seals, Comp 1418 1.6 self aligning roller rockers, and an LT4 Hotcam. I had to clearance the intake rocker knubs like you mentioned but I have been running this combo now for a couple years with the stock press fit studs and it is still running strong with zero issues! The LT4 hotcam has been a great street cam for my 96 Chev shortbox and after doing the 411 PCM swap and some tuning it has a nice lope at idle. I am loving this whole video series thanks for the great content!
Badass, I really enjoyed the 305 vortec head video from a while back, enough so that I took a pair that I had laying around blended the bowls back opened the runners up slightly and stuck them on a 355 in my 3/4 ton with a summit 1103 cam
One thing to note, I did not see you cover in this video. You can run harden valve lash caps to get the needed stem height for the self aligning rocker arms. Just something to add, I know a lot of people shy away from running them but they do work, also yes I know I am commenting on a 9 month old video just figured I would add this for those that did not know.
I'm finished with my Vortec build , this is a very good video, I used the ramjet cam , I now wish I would have been more aggressive with a different cam , but the car runs great .I wanted to stay under the .500 lift .
Pat, others on YT have used beehives on vortec heads but forget about the need for offset keepers. These are key to making this setup work. I watched the last video you made on this and worked great. Thanks!!
I’m going to go ahead and cut down my guide bosses since I’m doing screw in studs. My man will do both at the same time basically. I’m going to cut them to achieve the 1.8 install height with stock keepers. I’m not wanting to take the chance of a rocker jumping off. Keep the videos coming!!
@@cuttersperformance well no one else is on here spitting facts / knowledge like you are/do.. I give credit where it’s due!! Excellent info sir . Thanks 🙏🏻 for what you do and have done!!
Grind top of the keepers till they are flush with the top of the retainers. Grind guide rails on rockers to give the clearance you need between rockers and retainers, keepers. Just did this on my vortecs and have plenty of room.
Thanks for all the info! Do you know the comp cams number for the +030 offset keepers? I’m having a hard time finding any besides the ones you mentioned that are out of stock
Thank you Pat for upload and info! Just for a thought, if the offset keepers are close to contact with the rocker, why not to sand some hundreds off from them to until levelled with the retainers? Then for sure the rocker should only contact the valves only
I've filed down high spots, but I've never tried to take much material off a keepers. But technically, if you have the means of accurately grinding them down, it technically could work.
OMG thank you so much for showing this!!! My engine has "217" heads with the LT4 Hot Cam. The original hot cam springs are a little weak and the dampers self destructed and took out the seals with them. These springs you are talking about might save me tons of frustration. Look up the 217 head and tell me your opinion.
You should be able to use the beehive but your measurements will different than show in the video on a vortec. You'll probably need to add shims under the spring on the Ex and offset keepers on the IN.
What happened with the vortec with the DNA heads and 8803 cam? I bought the same heads ( except angled plugs), same cam , lifters, springs, rockers… you get the point. Did I miss the rest of the build because I can’t find it?
Hello Sir, excellent videos I've watched all of them now and rewatching some, whet roller tip rockers do you recommend with the + .030 locks? Hope to see more videos keep up the excellent work
I have a 1970 350SBC that runs amazing with real high compression but poops out at about 4k rpm. I pulled the valve covers and it has 601 heads from a 305 on it. So I’m looking into a vortex swap. What cam would you recommend. I want a nice aggressive lumpy idle. I’m putting this into a 280ZX
Where to find .030 keepers? When I Google the part number on your video, the only thing that comes up are the +.050 ones. Thanks in advance for your help! Has been 12-15 years since I built my last sbc, your videos have been very helpful.
I did the same thing. However, if you look at the build notes (just above the comments) you'll see he has the VTO4134 listed from Competition Products.
Great video! Are beehive springs similar to Z28 valve springs? Is there a problem running these heavier springs during camshaft break-in (using cam's recommended break in procedures)? Also, what is the minimum lift when using these springs? Looking at a mild cam with a .444/.466 lift while using 305 HO 601 heads with z28 springs. Thanks for the informative video.
Ive had really good luck with breaking in flat tappet cams with the lighter beehive springs (like the LS6 springs). They dont have a minimum lift, should work fine for you. Just follow proper break in
I plan to run summit roller cam SUM-8802 on my L31 with Summit springs SUM-174002 springs. The cam specs are 218/227 @.050 intake lift .525 and exhaust is .520. Based on your experience would i run into any issue with clearance with this set up?
@@nlg062701Same, just ordered cam lifters springs, already got some other stuff in as well. This part has been bugging me for ages but ima just shoot and try till it works
There are two issues with that. The lash cap depth is too much, and it will ride on the keepers and also lash caps typically can't be used with self aligning rocker arms
Hey Pat, tried ordering some of the retainers you recommended (SUM-174003-3) but the delivery times keep getting pushed. It's now showing August. Will Comps 787-16 work in their place? Thanks!
Comp Cams must have changed vendors or something for these springs because they won't clear the guide boss at the spring pocket on the 062's I just built. Had to cut the boss diameter to fit these springs.
Sorry to have to ask you through here but I can’t get your email to work. Will the Summit 174003 retainers work with the GM 12499224 blue springs? I’m running a .512” lift cam so would you suggest the +30 or the +50 offset locks based on your experience? Thanks and keep putting out the great videos !!!
Pat, my full roller rocker nubs are still too tight on my intakes, even with the + .030 keepers- so my question is what about the Manley 11860 valves on the intake side with the .290 tips to match the exhaust tip clearances….. how does that affect the intake? I have ls6 beehives, the 787 retainers, + .050 keepers on exhaust and got the * .030 keepers for the intake to try and get more clearance on the self aligning full roller rockers, and the Summit version of the LT4 hot cam so .520 and .525 lift. I’m at my Witt’s end trying to get the clearance I need on the rocker guides to keep them off the locks ! Seeing the .290 tip Manleys seem to be the way to go, but what else changes? IF they will work for me, do I go back to the + .050 locks to keep the 1.8” install? Please someone help me out! My brain is imploding over all this I don’t fully understand! Thanks in advance! Best channel out there on Vortecs!!!
Interesting. I wish I would have known about offset keepers when I was active in racing.....why didn't I know? Looks like the rocker could come down and release the keepers.
Hey man your videos are great! Good info thats hard to find anywhere else.. apparently The Locks I got in my kit from Comp Cams came with these offset +.050 they recommended 26906VC-KIT and I'm using self-aligning stamped steel rockers after the first 500 miles with the motor took the valve covers off and see pretty much on the intake that they are wearing into the locks im using comp cams XE268H intake at .477 exuhast at .480 from what I gather from your information I should be able to go back to the stock retainer locks and not have these clearance issues and it would still work cuz I'm under .500 lift.. lucky I caught thanks to your videos what do you think?
Those of us who have flowed Vortecs on SuperFlow's all-options 1020 flow bench can tell you, no matter what you try, the flow will always stall above 0.470-0.475" valve lift, and won't recover even as you close the valve. Either limit intake lift or invest in better heads. There's no third option, never was, never will be, never can be.
Question. I have a sbc350 with 906 vortec heads that I built with a port job and screw in studs. The heads have 480 max springs from summit racing. My engine has a 480/488 cam in it from Howard’s. Would I need stronger valve springs or would the 480 max springs work? I don’t want to deal with valve float. And what springs would you recommend? Not sure if 550 lift max springs are to stiff or not. Thanks
@@michaelbelknap2923 depending on your rules, a comp cams or PRW roller tip rocker works well. Adding guide plates and full roller rockers is even better
Have a question I purchased the 174002 summit brand beehive springs did you run in the problem of them fitting around the valve seal boss? I have the 906 vortec heads some went on good no problem and some where a lil tight but went on my question is will it cause problems only gonna be running a .480 lift just wanna make sure the tight snug ones won’t break on me.
Often times youll have to take a sandpaper cartridge roll and clean up the casting on the stud boss. The springs shouldn't be tight. Im pretty sure I show that in this video
What are your thoughts on running 1.6 rockers off a 3400series on a 2001 4.3 v6??? Also what springs can i run ...if i run a bigger cam with 470 lift? Thanks brother!!! I also love vortecs!!!! Plan on running sbc vortec headed in my 2001sliverado!!!!
Hi pat great video s Would I get away with using SUM 174002 springs retaiiners std valve locks at 1.75 using a ZZ4 cam 510 valve lift if not could I take some of the retainer thanks
Our of curiosity would this work for your typical "turbo swirl" heads? I understand that the vortec is superior just curious if it would even work for the guy try to get a little bit out of his old center bolt 350
Hey Pat, I really hope you see this comment as it’s an older video. I checked out the Power products .030 offset keepers, but there’s a review from a man saying he received .050 keepers in a Howard’s Cams package. Could you test those out please? I don’t want to buy the wrong thing and I don’t want any issues trying to run my 1.5 rocker arms with the summit 8802 cam.
@michael hancock sorry I just realized I read that wrong. I thought you said stock "retainers". You should have no issues running the stock rocker arms with the offset keepers. The factory rocker arm nubs are around .060 deep so you should have tons of clearance. But remember, the factory rocker arms are not long slot and shouldn't be used past .480 litt
@@cuttersperformance Great point, thanks! Well, on that note, you have a lead on some budget rockers (maybe roller?) that would work past .480 AND not break the bank? LOL
So I’ve been watching your videos and started a L31 build 9:56 if I’m running non machined vortec heads can I run the summit 8801 cam with 1.6 prw roller tip self aligning rockers which increases cam to lift to .560 with the 174004 springs and +50 keepers, retainers, and seats listed. Is this possible to do or do with shaving the rocker arm lip? Can I run stock pushrods or do I need to purchase more pushrods? If so what pushrods do you recommend for this combo?
Most likely, the intake rocker arms will have to be filed down slightly for clearance. Its not a big deal to do. you just have to take your time and take off a minimal amount to allow for clearance. Your stock push rods shouldn't be used with these springs. A .080"+ thickness wall push rod should be used. I prefer the 1 pc pushrods
Just curious, I have one gm (mexico) 906 and one aftermarket 906, the base on the aftermarket is not a pocket like the mexico 906, can I still run the beehive springs on this head with no issues?
Wow, great info. Quick question, can i use stock LS retainers on the summit 174002 springs with the .050 offset keepers and be ok with a 510/520 lift cam 🤔.
thanks Pat. i am was looking for a spring to go with crower hydraulic roller, and i am was looking at conicaL springs not the beehives. There are some smaller conicaL type springs out there and i am was wondering if you could tell me one that works or try one for this hyd. roller cam? crower #OO484LM . Respectively It is a 284*/286* advertised and 230*/236* @ O.O5O" lift and Lobe lift is O.363"/ O.370" lift respectively. LSA is 114* degrees. Grind number is #228HR236. i am not knew if you have ever tried it. Although i am going to use Gen1 sbc heads. Just wondering if it could work for both head types?
I have a1998 l29 454 and 4l80e outta of a Winnebago that I am swapping into my 70 Chevelle. I want to put a zz502 cam in it..... It's factory hydraulic roller with net lash rockers( not adjustable) Do you have a recommendation for a valve spring setup
Looks like I needed this video a month ago. I'm having the intake valve Rocker Clearance problem with my rockers hitting the retainers. If I completely scrap my currently set up and purchase the parts in this build will I have enough room for this cam HRS-CL110245-10? Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.500 in. Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510 in.
Ls heads have lots of retainer clearance. They are originally equipped with beehives with a 1.800 installed height. They make "drop in" beehive springs or even kits that allow for dual springs to be used without modification to the actual head
I have a 305 I'm rebuilding would you know of a camshaft I might be able to find a mild cam for towing and some performance it's a 1998 vortec in a pick up
Hello my friend, I would love to know if you can tell me what's the max lift & RPMs these springs can handle, here are the springs specs: seat load 136 lbs @ 1.800'' , open 412 lbs @ 1.170'' , spring rate 438 lbs/in and coil bind 1.125'' , thanks in advance
I love the info you provide. Decided to finally pull the trigger on a cam for the 5.7 Vortec in my '99 Suburban. Melling 22280 cam (.497/.502 lift), with the LS spring setup and pioneer rocker studs 🤘 looking to do .050 keepers on exhaust and .030 on the intake. Do you see any reason why this would be a bad idea?
@nlg062701 i had issues with the ball type rockers. Spring pressure was too high and caused the rockers/balls to gall. Went full roller instead. Clearance is good. Had to go .030 offset on all due to the self aligning rockers. The full rollers offer more clearance with the aligning tabs though, so i should be able to swap to .050 later. Runs good and smooth 👌
@nlg062701 i believe they're PRW pro stainless rockers. They require longer studs though. So what was supposed to be a weekend project turned into 3 weeks 🤦♂️
Hey just bought the .030 from competition products. They came in a Howard's box that says .050 box, lol. What's a easy way to measure to make sure they are actually .030
Great video Pat! Do you know where I could buy Rebuilder valves (+0.015 stem) for Vortec heads? Enginetech has some, but I can't find a source to order them.
I gave my heads away sold the motor with a monster cam in it got completely away from building a grenade after finding out how many different b hive springs there are and after market heads are cheaper in the long run
Awesome video. I have been watching them for a bit now and I have a question. I am building a TBI 350 4 bolt main out of my 1993 Blazer. I have a set of 062 Vortecs and I will use the Weiand Street warrior (8121) intake. I am also going to use the Summit Racing Max efi 500. I also am going with LS6 style spring and lifters (Roller) I was thinking about the Chevy performance cam 12677151. Is this a good cam for a truck? I daily drive this every day in Germany (Including Autobahn but only 75-85 mph) I want some nice power but still be torquey down low. I was also looking at some 4x4 cams but most are getting close to the limits of the vortecs.
Hey I know this video is a little old but I’ve found an Isky’s cam that says it’s converter and computer compatible for my 1998 vortec 350 truck, it’s like a 257/265 hydraulic roller with 0.465/0.485 of Lift. It says it’s good for the 1400-5600rpm range. They make it sound like I should be able to just stick this into the truck but I’m worried about the max lift on the stock heads and everyone I’ve talked to about it says they wouldn’t worry about it but online you see like .420 being the max and .480. What do we think here guys? I’m just totally uncomfortable putting a cam like this on oe springs and pushrods.
I’m having trouble finding the +.030 keepers for the stock valves in my l31 heads I’m trying to do exactly what this video shows and use a 500 lift cam does any body have a link to them forgive my inexperience I’m working on my first engine build
Did you ever finish the build, how did it turn out? So i assume you upgraded the keepers and seals with the parts listed in the info? Just looking to do something similar and want to take out all of the guess work!
So if I understand the stock vortec valve spring retainer and locks will work up to .500 lift with the new bee style springs? If so would only need to purchase new valve stem seals and springs to run a .480 lift camshaft?
@@cuttersperformance Ok wasn’t to sure when you said use stock retainer and locks but now I understand your meaning stock style bee springs retainer and keepers
@@Chad-l6u the camshaft and rocker arms determine lift and duration. The valve springs must be upgraded to allow for more lift and more duration when the cam is upgraded
There are very little gains to a vortec head on the intake runner side. I wouldn't gasket match it but making sure the intake manifold transitions into the head nicely is a good idea.
@@cuttersperformance well i built a engine last yr using info from your older video on beehive springs. I used comp cam springs 26906-16, comp cams retainers 787-16, summit racing +•050 offset keepers 174003-4, comp cams magnum rockers 1417-16, and comp cams xtreme energy cam 08-422-8(.495/.502 lift). I filed the rockers slightly to obtain the clearance for the valve stems. I also added a bbk 80mm throttle body. Motor has been assembled for a yr now just sitting on a stand in the garage. I would be totally happy if i could get 325-350hp out of it. The enginge has 60 over bore and it cost me about 2500 including used engine, honing-hot tanked-and polished crank journals from machine shop,all new bearings, timing set, valve covers,oil pump, oil pan front and rear main seals, etc etc…the works!!! Did all of this using your videos.
@Marquis Lewis right on man! Love hearing about builds like this. Well I can tell you a stock L31 with a carb intake will make right around 300hp and a even a super mild cam will make 320 to 325 all day on unported heads
I have a 99 L31 vortec in my tahoe and I was wondering if I were to run an lt4 hot cam would it still make enough vacuum to run the stock vacuum power brakes?
@@cuttersperformance Thanks ordering these exact parts this week cant wait to start the tear down one more question do you have any tips for getting the timing cover on without pulling the oil pan? for now my plan is to unbolt the motor mounts and lift it enough to undo the pan and get the lip under but if theres a better way i'd like to know.
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Appreciate the part numbers! Not all hero’s wear capes.
Great channel & content, but someone’s GOTTA tell me- what the HELL is a “piss-cutter”?!! 😂
Beer
I would never have thought it would be possible to run a LT4 Hotcam in my L31 without machining the guides. IMO this is a game changer.
Looks like I'd have a few thousandths to spare as well. Nice!
Thanks so much!
Yeah, they work great and saves alot of money in machine work. Even just LS6 summit springs are enough for the lt4 hotcam. We took it up to 6200 rpm and never got valve float.
th-cam.com/video/Z4F6TpO_Tic/w-d-xo.html
@@cuttersperformance I have a 99 L31 vortec in my tahoe and I was wondering if I were to run an lt4 hot cam would it still make enough vacuum to run the stock vacuum power brakes?
@Bw40099 has good of vaccum, plenty for power brakes
@@cuttersperformance thanks! would that sound pretty different from stock idle too?
Great video Pat! I did most of my mods to my L31 using your older videos a few years back. I am running Comp 26915 springs, 787 retainers, Crane 99095 +.050 keepers, Felpro seals, Comp 1418 1.6 self aligning roller rockers, and an LT4 Hotcam. I had to clearance the intake rocker knubs like you mentioned but I have been running this combo now for a couple years with the stock press fit studs and it is still running strong with zero issues! The LT4 hotcam has been a great street cam for my 96 Chev shortbox and after doing the 411 PCM swap and some tuning it has a nice lope at idle. I am loving this whole video series thanks for the great content!
Hell yeah glad to hear!
Did you drill/elongate push rod holes? Or were you able to run the 1.6 rockers without modding?
I had to drill for the pro magnums. This has always been a question in the back of my mind, but I really need to change my springs sooner than later.
Badass, I really enjoyed the 305 vortec head video from a while back, enough so that I took a pair that I had laying around blended the bowls back opened the runners up slightly and stuck them on a 355 in my 3/4 ton with a summit 1103 cam
Right on man!
One thing to note, I did not see you cover in this video. You can run harden valve lash caps to get the needed stem height for the self aligning rocker arms. Just something to add, I know a lot of people shy away from running them but they do work, also yes I know I am commenting on a 9 month old video just figured I would add this for those that did not know.
I'm finished with my Vortec build , this is a very good video, I used the ramjet cam , I now wish I would have been more aggressive with a different cam , but the car runs great .I wanted to stay under the .500 lift .
Bro you are a wizard! lol Thanks for the great info.
Another excellent tutorial! Thanks.
Putting vortec heads on my 327 with Holley sniper so this video is really helpful.
ThankYou for sharing this info! Definitely will help me when I get going on my build!
Bro you’re awesome trying to go with vortec heads and all this stuff is a lot to take in. This was so great gonna follow this. Thank you so much!
I just looked on your channel for a new video!! Perfect timing!
Sorry, the upload was late this time! There are not enough hours in the week haha
Those beehive springs should allow for a higher rpm before valve float right? 6-6500?
Great video Pat. Looking forward to more on this build.👍👍
Pat, others on YT have used beehives on vortec heads but forget about the need for offset keepers. These are key to making this setup work. I watched the last video you made on this and worked great. Thanks!!
Yeah, that's correct. With a few quick checks and having the proper information, it can save guys from total destruction
"offset keepers"?? What are those? 🤔
I was about to machining retainers ... cool👍
Thanks again. Learning lots.
The man with the plans!!👍🏾😎
Another very helpful vortec head video. 👍
I’m going to go ahead and cut down my guide bosses since I’m doing screw in studs. My man will do both at the same time basically. I’m going to cut them to achieve the 1.8 install height with stock keepers. I’m not wanting to take the chance of a rocker jumping off. Keep the videos coming!!
Thanks for checking out my videos! Cutting down the guide, the boss doesn't change the intalled height it only adds seal to retainer clearance.
@@cuttersperformance I may have worded that wrong, lol. I’m doing that and the spring seats.
great video, explains a lot! I hope to do something similar on my motor at one point.
Appreciate the positive feedback
Thank you for all the details, I am starting to rebuild a Vortec 350 for my 1990 chevy pickup, your video helped me out quite a bit. Subscribed.
Thank you, appreciate it
Great video man. Beehives are the bomb. Running some on my current build
Great content as usual!
Duuuuude....awesome vid. Can't wait to upgrade my Vortecs. Still trying to break in my engine. Keep up the great work.
Pat is A VORTEC Genius
Easy now 😅
@@cuttersperformance well no one else is on here spitting facts / knowledge like you are/do.. I give credit where it’s due!! Excellent info sir . Thanks 🙏🏻 for what you do and have done!!
Thanks! Another great video!
Good handy knowledge thank you
Great video mate 👍🇦🇺
outstanding!
Grind top of the keepers till they are flush with the top of the retainers. Grind guide rails on rockers to give the clearance you need between rockers and retainers, keepers. Just did this on my vortecs and have plenty of room.
Nice! I bet these could be used on a big block chrysler with a spring locator.
Amazing video
Thanks for all the info! Do you know the comp cams number for the +030 offset keepers? I’m having a hard time finding any besides the ones you mentioned that are out of stock
If rebuilding a set of heads, you can run +100 valves
SO glad you changed the channel name, son! 😂
Ive gotten alot of flack for changing it lol
Thank you Pat for upload and info! Just for a thought, if the offset keepers are close to contact with the rocker, why not to sand some hundreds off from them to until levelled with the retainers? Then for sure the rocker should only contact the valves only
I've filed down high spots, but I've never tried to take much material off a keepers. But technically, if you have the means of accurately grinding them down, it technically could work.
OMG thank you so much for showing this!!! My engine has "217" heads with the LT4 Hot Cam. The original hot cam springs are a little weak and the dampers self destructed and took out the seals with them. These springs you are talking about might save me tons of frustration. Look up the 217 head and tell me your opinion.
You should be able to use the beehive but your measurements will different than show in the video on a vortec. You'll probably need to add shims under the spring on the Ex and offset keepers on the IN.
What happened with the vortec with the DNA heads and 8803 cam? I bought the same heads ( except angled plugs), same cam , lifters, springs, rockers… you get the point. Did I miss the rest of the build because I can’t find it?
th-cam.com/video/ZkDaojRiduU/w-d-xo.html
Nice info
Hello Sir, excellent videos I've watched all of them now and rewatching some, whet roller tip rockers do you recommend with the + .030 locks?
Hope to see more videos keep up the excellent work
I have a 1970 350SBC that runs amazing with real high compression but poops out at about 4k rpm. I pulled the valve covers and it has 601 heads from a 305 on it. So I’m looking into a vortex swap. What cam would you recommend. I want a nice aggressive lumpy idle. I’m putting this into a 280ZX
Where to find .030 keepers? When I Google the part number on your video, the only thing that comes up are the +.050 ones. Thanks in advance for your help! Has been 12-15 years since I built my last sbc, your videos have been very helpful.
I did the same thing. However, if you look at the build notes (just above the comments) you'll see he has the VTO4134 listed from Competition Products.
Thank you ive been looking everywhere for these @nlg062701
Correction - Competition Products lists the PVT 4326 keepers as +.050 and the VTO 4134 keepers as +.030
Thank you!!!
Great video! Are beehive springs similar to Z28 valve springs? Is there a problem running these heavier springs during camshaft break-in (using cam's recommended break in procedures)? Also, what is the minimum lift when using these springs? Looking at a mild cam with a .444/.466 lift while using 305 HO 601 heads with z28 springs. Thanks for the informative video.
Ive had really good luck with breaking in flat tappet cams with the lighter beehive springs (like the LS6 springs). They dont have a minimum lift, should work fine for you. Just follow proper break in
Can you Use the .050 offset keepers on intake and the .030 offset on the exhaust? I know you can but should you ?
The intakes are the issue with the shorter valve tip. It's no issue to run +.050 on the EX
@piss-cutterperformance thank you very much so you could
I plan to run summit roller cam SUM-8802 on my L31 with Summit springs SUM-174002 springs. The cam specs are 218/227 @.050 intake lift .525 and exhaust is .520. Based on your experience would i run into any issue with clearance with this set up?
Did you build this? Did you have any issues with it?
@@nlg062701Same, just ordered cam lifters springs, already got some other stuff in as well. This part has been bugging me for ages but ima just shoot and try till it works
So what roller tip rockers would you use thanks Great video
PRW or Comp cams roller tips
What about lash caps will that work for this setup? Great information on these head's always look forward for your videos
There are two issues with that. The lash cap depth is too much, and it will ride on the keepers and also lash caps typically can't be used with self aligning rocker arms
@@cuttersperformance of not buget minded what would 100. Thousands longer valve's do ? What's the POS and NEG to this option
Hey Pat, tried ordering some of the retainers you recommended (SUM-174003-3) but the delivery times keep getting pushed. It's now showing August. Will Comps 787-16 work in their place? Thanks!
Yeah, but you will have to do all the same measurements in the video. You'll find they may be slightly different for retainer to seal clearance
Comp Cams must have changed vendors or something for these springs because they won't clear the guide boss at the spring pocket on the 062's I just built. Had to cut the boss diameter to fit these springs.
So no worries about the push in studs? Always thought that was the main problem. Needing to have them studded with more seat pressure
Anything over 300lbs over the nose or 6000 rpm+ screw in studs should be used. But they always a good idea if you have the heads off
Sorry to have to ask you through here but I can’t get your email to work. Will the Summit 174003 retainers work with the GM 12499224 blue springs? I’m running a .512” lift cam so would you suggest the +30 or the +50 offset locks based on your experience? Thanks and keep putting out the great videos !!!
Pat, my full roller rocker nubs are still too tight on my intakes, even with the + .030 keepers- so my question is what about the Manley 11860 valves on the intake side with the .290 tips to match the exhaust tip clearances….. how does that affect the intake? I have ls6 beehives, the 787 retainers, + .050 keepers on exhaust and got the * .030 keepers for the intake to try and get more clearance on the self aligning full roller rockers, and the Summit version of the LT4 hot cam so .520 and .525 lift. I’m at my Witt’s end trying to get the clearance I need on the rocker guides to keep them off the locks ! Seeing the .290 tip Manleys seem to be the way to go, but what else changes? IF they will work for me, do I go back to the + .050 locks to keep the 1.8” install? Please someone help me out! My brain is imploding over all this I don’t fully understand!
Thanks in advance! Best channel out there on Vortecs!!!
@davenkaren2572 email me with pics of the valve tip height and rocker arms being used pcperformance1@outlook.com
@@cuttersperformancesent
Interesting. I wish I would have known about offset keepers when I was active in racing.....why didn't I know? Looks like the rocker could come down and release the keepers.
Rocker should only contact the valve tip. This setup works well, I've used it many times
Hey man your videos are great! Good info thats hard to find anywhere else.. apparently The Locks I got in my kit from Comp Cams came with these offset +.050 they recommended 26906VC-KIT and I'm using self-aligning stamped steel rockers after the first 500 miles with the motor took the valve covers off and see pretty much on the intake that they are wearing into the locks im using comp cams XE268H intake at .477 exuhast at .480 from what I gather from your information I should be able to go back to the stock retainer locks and not have these clearance issues and it would still work cuz I'm under .500 lift.. lucky I caught thanks to your videos what do you think?
I seen that summit racing has a spring rated for .630 lift. Part # sum-174005. It’s the same price as the .600 lift spring.
Yes they do, but you'll have to machine the guides to get that lift
Those of us who have flowed Vortecs on SuperFlow's all-options 1020 flow bench can tell you, no matter what you try, the flow will always stall above 0.470-0.475" valve lift, and won't recover even as you close the valve. Either limit intake lift or invest in better heads. There's no third option, never was, never will be, never can be.
Not true, according to a little nobody David vizard untouched or mild port they don't start to fall off until .520 lift
Unless you port them.
What rockers are you going to run on these? The comp roller tips with the traditional fulcrum?
PRW roller tip rockers 1.6 ratio
Question. I have a sbc350 with 906 vortec heads that I built with a port job and screw in studs. The heads have 480 max springs from summit racing. My engine has a 480/488 cam in it from Howard’s. Would I need stronger valve springs or would the 480 max springs work? I don’t want to deal with valve float. And what springs would you recommend? Not sure if 550 lift max springs are to stiff or not. Thanks
So use the .030 or .050 retainers with self aligning rockers? Or you have to order them install and check?
Perfect thanks for the part numbers
It reallly helps
So we can keep stock rocker arms?
Or should the roller rockers be used for the hot cam?😊
Stock rockers are not long slot and shouldn't be used much past .480 lift
@@cuttersperformance so in this case where we’re shooting for 500 plus lift what is the recommendation for circle track 7500rpm
@@michaelbelknap2923 depending on your rules, a comp cams or PRW roller tip rocker works well. Adding guide plates and full roller rockers is even better
@@cuttersperformance thanks!
Will look those up for part numbers have 2 vortex’s on the stands now
Have a question I purchased the 174002 summit brand beehive springs did you run in the problem of them fitting around the valve seal boss? I have the 906 vortec heads some went on good no problem and some where a lil tight but went on my question is will it cause problems only gonna be running a .480 lift just wanna make sure the tight snug ones won’t break on me.
Often times youll have to take a sandpaper cartridge roll and clean up the casting on the stud boss. The springs shouldn't be tight. Im pretty sure I show that in this video
@@cuttersperformance YES. As in the video 👍
What are your thoughts on running 1.6 rockers off a 3400series on a 2001 4.3 v6???
Also what springs can i run ...if i run a bigger cam with 470 lift?
Thanks brother!!!
I also love vortecs!!!!
Plan on running sbc vortec headed in my 2001sliverado!!!!
Hi pat great video s Would I get away with using SUM 174002 springs retaiiners std valve locks at 1.75 using a ZZ4 cam 510 valve lift if not could I take some of the retainer thanks
Our of curiosity would this work for your typical "turbo swirl" heads? I understand that the vortec is superior just curious if it would even work for the guy try to get a little bit out of his old center bolt 350
This would be very similar on a Tbi swirl port head
Hey Pat, I really hope you see this comment as it’s an older video. I checked out the Power products .030 offset keepers, but there’s a review from a man saying he received .050 keepers in a Howard’s Cams package. Could you test those out please? I don’t want to buy the wrong thing and I don’t want any issues trying to run my 1.5 rocker arms with the summit 8802 cam.
Hey Pat! Another great video, thank you good sir! Have you found any issues running the stock rockers with a .030 offset keeper? Thanks!
What springs are you trying to run?
@@cuttersperformance I was thinking of running the 174002s. Mainly looking for a torque machine ('83 K20).
@michael hancock sorry I just realized I read that wrong. I thought you said stock "retainers". You should have no issues running the stock rocker arms with the offset keepers. The factory rocker arm nubs are around .060 deep so you should have tons of clearance. But remember, the factory rocker arms are not long slot and shouldn't be used past .480 litt
@@cuttersperformance Great point, thanks! Well, on that note, you have a lead on some budget rockers (maybe roller?) that would work past .480 AND not break the bank? LOL
@@michaelhancock1603 the PRW roller tips are well priced
So I can run the lt4 hot cam with those seals springs retainers and .30+ keepers and stock rockers 1.5?
You shouldn't use stock rockers' past .480 lift as they are not long slot
So I’ve been watching your videos and started a L31 build 9:56 if I’m running non machined vortec heads can I run the summit 8801 cam with 1.6 prw roller tip self aligning rockers which increases cam to lift to .560 with the 174004 springs and +50 keepers, retainers, and seats listed. Is this possible to do or do with shaving the rocker arm lip? Can I run stock pushrods or do I need to purchase more pushrods? If so what pushrods do you recommend for this combo?
Most likely, the intake rocker arms will have to be filed down slightly for clearance. Its not a big deal to do. you just have to take your time and take off a minimal amount to allow for clearance.
Your stock push rods shouldn't be used with these springs. A .080"+ thickness wall push rod should be used. I prefer the 1 pc pushrods
Do I have to drill out pushrod holes with these suggested pushrods? I was trying not to pull heads.
Thank you so much for your help as I’m figuring this out , I really appreciate it
Is there an issue with running guide plates, if you want to use the 50 thou keepers?
No guide plates are a great upgrade 👌
Just curious, I have one gm (mexico) 906 and one aftermarket 906, the base on the aftermarket is not a pocket like the mexico 906, can I still run the beehive springs on this head with no issues?
Wow, great info. Quick question, can i use stock LS retainers on the summit 174002 springs with the .050 offset keepers and be ok with a 510/520 lift cam 🤔.
No, the stock LS retainers are for 8mm valve stems
thanks Pat. i am was looking for a spring to go with crower hydraulic roller, and i am was looking at conicaL springs not the beehives. There are some smaller conicaL type springs out there and i am was wondering if you could tell me one that works or try one for this hyd. roller cam? crower #OO484LM . Respectively It is a 284*/286* advertised and 230*/236* @ O.O5O" lift and Lobe lift is O.363"/ O.370" lift respectively. LSA is 114* degrees. Grind number is #228HR236. i am not knew if you have ever tried it. Although i am going to use Gen1 sbc heads. Just wondering if it could work for both head types?
I have a1998 l29 454 and 4l80e outta of a Winnebago that I am swapping into my 70 Chevelle. I want to put a zz502 cam in it..... It's factory hydraulic roller with net lash rockers( not adjustable) Do you have a recommendation for a valve spring setup
Looks like I needed this video a month ago. I'm having the intake valve Rocker Clearance problem with my rockers hitting the retainers. If I completely scrap my currently set up and purchase the parts in this build will I have enough room for this cam HRS-CL110245-10? Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.500 in. Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510 in.
If I want to put 600 lift on 317 heads, will I have to mill the head and cut down the guides? Mill the spring seat and use spring guides.
Ls heads have lots of retainer clearance. They are originally equipped with beehives with a 1.800 installed height. They make "drop in" beehive springs or even kits that allow for dual springs to be used without modification to the actual head
I have the springs for the lift. Do I need to have the guides cut down and seat cut so I can get a .600 lift and not hit the seal?
No, not on a LS head
I have a 305 I'm rebuilding would you know of a camshaft I might be able to find a mild cam for towing and some performance it's a 1998 vortec in a pick up
Hello my friend, I would love to know if you can tell me what's the max lift & RPMs these springs can handle, here are the springs specs: seat load 136 lbs @ 1.800'' , open 412 lbs @ 1.170'' , spring rate 438 lbs/in and coil bind 1.125'' , thanks in advance
Have u ever used the tick performance spring kit? Part# TPC-6BHLTKit
Seems like a really nice kit
I love the info you provide. Decided to finally pull the trigger on a cam for the 5.7 Vortec in my '99 Suburban. Melling 22280 cam (.497/.502 lift), with the LS spring setup and pioneer rocker studs 🤘 looking to do .050 keepers on exhaust and .030 on the intake. Do you see any reason why this would be a bad idea?
I haven't done it but technically not reason you couldn't. As long as you base your "max lift" off the .030 offset
How did this build go? did you have any issues? Piston to valve clearance OK?
@nlg062701 i had issues with the ball type rockers. Spring pressure was too high and caused the rockers/balls to gall. Went full roller instead. Clearance is good. Had to go .030 offset on all due to the self aligning rockers. The full rollers offer more clearance with the aligning tabs though, so i should be able to swap to .050 later. Runs good and smooth 👌
@@logand.56 Which rockers did you go with? That's exactly what i realized I needed to do after reading these comments.
@nlg062701 i believe they're PRW pro stainless rockers. They require longer studs though. So what was supposed to be a weekend project turned into 3 weeks 🤦♂️
Would SUMM-8803 cam go good with the .600 springs?
Yeah, it would be a good match
@cuttersperformance could i use the +.030 keepers, making it .550 max lift and still use that cam?
What is the valve length that you are using stock 4.880 or a 4.911
Hey just bought the .030 from competition products. They came in a Howard's box that says .050 box, lol. What's a easy way to measure to make sure they are actually .030
Great video Pat! Do you know where I could buy Rebuilder valves (+0.015 stem) for Vortec heads? Enginetech has some, but I can't find a source to order them.
Try Rockauto to order Enginetech stuff
@@cuttersperformance they don't sell it. PN is I2692
Do a video on a vortec head porting what tools u use exactly and how much u like to shave off and everything else
Yeah I have porting and flow result videos on my channel
I gave my heads away sold the motor with a monster cam in it got completely away from building a grenade after finding out how many different b hive springs there are and after market heads are cheaper in the long run
Awesome video. I have been watching them for a bit now and I have a question.
I am building a TBI 350 4 bolt main out of my 1993 Blazer.
I have a set of 062 Vortecs and I will use the Weiand Street warrior (8121) intake.
I am also going to use the Summit Racing Max efi 500.
I also am going with LS6 style spring and lifters (Roller)
I was thinking about the Chevy performance cam 12677151. Is this a good cam for a truck?
I daily drive this every day in Germany (Including Autobahn but only 75-85 mph)
I want some nice power but still be torquey down low.
I was also looking at some 4x4 cams but most are getting close to the limits of the vortecs.
Some mild pocket porting on the vortecs, long tube headers, you could easily see 370hp 400 ftlbs of torque with that cam on a 350/355.
@@cuttersperformance Pocket Porting?
I ran the 151 in my 97 Van with 1.6 rockers, marine L31 intake and thorley tri-ys. It had loads of power.
Hey I know this video is a little old but I’ve found an Isky’s cam that says it’s converter and computer compatible for my 1998 vortec 350 truck, it’s like a 257/265 hydraulic roller with 0.465/0.485 of Lift. It says it’s good for the 1400-5600rpm range. They make it sound like I should be able to just stick this into the truck but I’m worried about the max lift on the stock heads and everyone I’ve talked to about it says they wouldn’t worry about it but online you see like .420 being the max and .480. What do we think here guys? I’m just totally uncomfortable putting a cam like this on oe springs and pushrods.
So i orderd the +.50 but i only needed the .30 should be fine right 😆
I’m having trouble finding the +.030 keepers for the stock valves in my l31 heads I’m trying to do exactly what this video shows and use a 500 lift cam does any body have a link to them forgive my inexperience I’m working on my first engine build
Heres a link
www.competitionproducts.com/mobile/VTO-Forged-Steel-7-Deg-Valve-Locks-11_32-Valve-Stem/productinfo/VTO4134/
Eric how has your build gone? I'm looking to do a 0.500 lift Howards cam and looking to see if it'll work. Any issued with piston to valve clearance?
Did you ever finish the build, how did it turn out? So i assume you upgraded the keepers and seals with the parts listed in the info? Just looking to do something similar and want to take out all of the guess work!
th-cam.com/video/Z4F6TpO_Tic/w-d-xo.html
So if I understand the stock vortec valve spring retainer and locks will work up to .500 lift with the new bee style springs? If so would only need to purchase new valve stem seals and springs to run a .480 lift camshaft?
No you need the summit or comp cam retainers to run beehives. Part#s in description
@@cuttersperformance
Ok wasn’t to sure when you said use stock retainer and locks but now I understand your meaning stock style bee springs retainer and keepers
Do any of these combinations affect valve to piston clearance?
No nothing to do with piston to valve clearance
I guess I'm confused how lift works then can you clarify this for me? If I add lift what do I gain ?
@@Chad-l6u the camshaft and rocker arms determine lift and duration. The valve springs must be upgraded to allow for more lift and more duration when the cam is upgraded
Does this apply to iron lt1 heads?
I was watching one of your older videos and I wanted to know your thoughts on gasket matching a vortec head
On the intake side
There are very little gains to a vortec head on the intake runner side. I wouldn't gasket match it but making sure the intake manifold transitions into the head nicely is a good idea.
@@cuttersperformance thank you for responding and all the info I plan do a similar build on my channel, I’ll make sure to send more views your way
What would you say is the rpm limit for those beehive springs? Running some comp beehives in my build. Great video, keep em coming!
It depends on the cam but ive done 6300+ rpm with no issues and a mild roller with the .550 springs close to 7000 rpm with the heavier ones.
Cam is a 230/236 retro fit roller cam from comp. Built my engine based on one of yours you did a while back!
With this cam and beehive setup how much hp do you think the L31 will make
I'm not sure, never ran one of these cams. What's your guess?
@@cuttersperformance well i built a engine last yr using info from your older video on beehive springs. I used comp cam springs 26906-16, comp cams retainers 787-16, summit racing +•050 offset keepers 174003-4, comp cams magnum rockers 1417-16, and comp cams xtreme energy cam 08-422-8(.495/.502 lift). I filed the rockers slightly to obtain the clearance for the valve stems. I also added a bbk 80mm throttle body. Motor has been assembled for a yr now just sitting on a stand in the garage. I would be totally happy if i could get 325-350hp out of it. The enginge has 60 over bore and it cost me about 2500 including used engine, honing-hot tanked-and polished crank journals from machine shop,all new bearings, timing set, valve covers,oil pump, oil pan front and rear main seals, etc etc…the works!!! Did all of this using your videos.
@Marquis Lewis right on man! Love hearing about builds like this. Well I can tell you a stock L31 with a carb intake will make right around 300hp and a even a super mild cam will make 320 to 325 all day on unported heads
What rocker options are there so you can run the .050 keepers
Prw or comp rolller tips are typically the best options but may need slight filing on the intake rockers for clearance
I have a 99 L31 vortec in my tahoe and I was wondering if I were to run an lt4 hot cam would it still make enough vacuum to run the stock vacuum power brakes?
Yeah lots of vaccum. 15 inches+ at idle
@@cuttersperformance Thanks ordering these exact parts this week cant wait to start the tear down one more question do you have any tips for getting the timing cover on without pulling the oil pan? for now my plan is to unbolt the motor mounts and lift it enough to undo the pan and get the lip under but if theres a better way i'd like to know.
@@cuttersperformance Is this cam okay with the factory distributor or do i need a distributor with a different gear material