This is exactly the kind of trial and error stuff I love to hear about. Used to watch MotorTrend for this very stuff. Now that they've gone Corporate. I'm watching this. Subscribed!!!
Late 90s Vortec roller block 350 is a hell of a motor. Look how many have 300k miles and still hauling trailers. Got one with a 383 kit in a boat and it kicks ass.
Mine was a 98 5.7 Vortec and I sold the truck when it had 431,000 miles on it. Thst thing was a beast. She did scrap hauling where id load the bed so much I had to inflate the bags, she handled a few pulls here and there and rarely would pull a trailer but she still didn't care. Ill alwayd swear by the 350 small block no matter what. She was a gas hog but I didn't care. It was well worth it
I love watching Richards videos, he asks the every guy questions and answers them honestly through trial and error. Hes not bragging or acting arrogant while hes doing it and gives a straight up truthful analysis when its all said and done. Is he an expert? Id like to think so and hope he keeps putting out content because hes helping the hotrod community become a better place for all of us.
That L-82 upgrade blew me away! You added 14 degrees of duration @ .050 and increased runner volume by roughly 40cc and it gained EVERYWHERE!! Even down at 3000 rpm it gained over 30 lb/ft of torque! Everything I was taught in the nineties went completely out the window. I was expecting a loss below 3500 because of the longer cam duration and decrease in air speed from the 25 percent larger intake runner volume.
I tore down a stock L-82 many years ago out of a mid 70s corvette. It had a forged crank, 4 bolt mains, forged flat top pistons, a windage tray and baffled pan. The heads were big chamber but they had screw in studs and guide plates.
Kimbal Mackinnon Sorry, but I’ve got a stock L-82 from a 74 Vette torn down in the garage, can’t vouch for the windage tray but I can confirm that the original 882 heads do in fact have screw-in studs & guideplates, and can also confirm the forged crank, forged flat-top pistons, 4 bolt mains, as well as “pink” rods. As Richard mentions, the L-82 is a low compression version of the L-46 350/350hp engine, the hottest hydraulic cammed 350 and pretty close in specs (besides cam) to the LT-1. Amazing how the L-82’s quietly carried all that good hardware through the dark days of the 70’s!
@@rustysausage69 All stock, numbers matching 4speed 1975 corvette. Do some research on the L-82.They were a really good engine with really good internals- especially for the smog era. All that good stuff came on it. The L-48 from the same year- none of it.
@@bsrktm1 Yeah, even the L-83 in my 84 vette has forged pistons and a windage tray. The rest of it is cast. The L82 was a pretty good motor to build from.
M W my 1976 corvette L82 had windage tray forged crank pink rods trw pistons 2.02 882 heads . I hand ported the heads and had bronze guides installed and machine work done to allow for springs matched to comp cam with high lift and short duration, rhoads lifters ,roller rockers . Rebuilt engine with clevite 77 bearings double roller timing chain felpro head gaskets with fire rings and moly rings ,hi volume oil pump reworked hei big tube headers dual 3 inch exhaust and super charger with boost referenced 780 Holley . Passenger are pinned to the seat in first and second gear . Agree with all you comments on the L82 also the block are hi nickel go foundation to build on
If you get a Vortec from a salvage yard get a roller-cam Vortec! Have the machine shop machine the heads so you can put a big cam and better springs in it. Also put a Victor JR manifold with an air gap on it and a big CFM carb on it. Fairly cheap and easy 500 HP/500 lbs torque. Geat your money's worth! Go for the gusto!
Many people downgrade the crate motor ?But it is a good engine for general purposes. A Quadrabog and headers and off ya go. Good for Towing. It would burn rubber if tires were not to big. But put a Crane Saturday night special cam in it an hold on to your Gonads. It will rip through with midrange torque you would never expect. Still the SBC is tough to beat for performance price and ease of working on. They take a beating and continue to work. CAT is Grinning.
Great Test! I've built a bunch of SBC engines with Vortec heads and we always got 375-385hp from them. We used the same GM Goodwrench 190hp short block but with a Comp Cams Retro roller cam (XM270HR). We did the same spring upgrade with the short style valve seals on the stock 906 heads and used an Edelbrock RPM Vortec intake with a 650-680 cfm carb. BTW if you use a Vortec engine and use the XR270HR Cam with the same set up it will produce 355-365hp. It never seemed to be as strong as the Goodwrench combo by about 12-15hp, we always thought it was because the compression of the Vortec engine was a little lower than the Goodwrench with the 64cc chambers. Rich, (and you guys out there) you might have another theory. :-)
I have the 270HR cam in my GM 'hecho en mexico' engine with slightly shaved 906 heads and holley 650. it is a screamer for sure! Much better performing than the sportsman II double hump knockoffs that were on my last SBC.
@@YOUKNOOB port those sportman 11 heads and it would destroy any vortec ported any day.i have almost 300 cfms out of a sportsman 11 head and 200 on the exhaust very good head when ported with a 2.05 valve
@@tonywalker2334 My dad was the head "guru" and he died in 2007. That said, I'm sure you don't have the same problems today with the spring, retainer, and locks that are offered for the Vortec heads. In the beginning (90's) we used PC style seals because we were using dual valve springs, the PC's of the day were skinny allowing room for the dual springs but they had an extra lip on the top that took another 20-30 thousandths sometimes, so we found that using a more expensive single spring with a Viton style seal that was bigger around but actually was a little bit shorter on the guide. Couple that with the right retainer and we had enough room for the lift we were using. We soon stopped using flat-tappets and went to ALL roller cams, at that point, my dad cut down the bosses giving him all the room for many options but in our flat-tappet engines of the day, we were only trying to get .470-/475 lift. My dad used to always say "measure everything 3 times because with the right combination of parts we can come up with the room we need for anything". He would get his height mic, and a test spring and start mix-matching til he found his magic set up. I dont know the part numbers but, I have heard there is an LS "beehive" spring with a short retainer and lock set that will allow .525+ lift on a stock 906 head but I haven't used it. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
@@tonywalker2334 COMP Cams Race Valve Locks 648-16 and COMP Cams Steel Valve Spring Retainers 787-16....you gotta use both along with the beehive ls springs for lift: GM Parts 12499224 Valve Spring for LS1 Engine
Buddy of mine had a 377sbc on e85 with vortex heads ported in his 3gen camaro and small flat tapet cam ran 6.90 in the 1/8th amazing build that was really simple
Great video. Up here in Canada, the wreckers move trucks quickly, so vortec heads are hard to find now, but I've located a pair. This is motivation. Hoping to greatly improve on the 170 flywheel hp that the Wallace racing calculator estimates my poor 95 suburban has left.
I had a 75 L82, it had 882 heads with 2.02-1.6 valves in them. Also forged single valve relief pistons. I ported the heads and put them on a flat top 400 with a xe262 and 1.6 rockers. The 400 was a torque monster!
We run big valve 882 heads in stock class engines on dirt tracks..they flow fairly well for a big chamber head. Zero decking the block helps them a lot.
882 heads are the best of the worst. Any 441 or 487 casting is a far better choice not only in flow but in strength. The 882 is a light weight casting whereas the 441 and 487 arent. Theyre all stock heads and less than even stock vortecs but thats up to what you want and how much money you have to spend.
I ran a worked set of Vortec heads with 2.02/1.60 valves on a 355 with a Lunati voodoo cam with 498/504 lift. Also ran a Holley 750 on a Edelbrock RPM intake. Great little motor on the street
Back in the day those were a pretty good set of lobes. Still are respectable today. Built a 383 as my first engine with a Voodoo cam (wrong lobe separation at 110 but I didn't know better back then) They'll grind one for ya at whatever you want too btw 17 years later and it's still running strong
Would like to see a well ported set of the much maligned camel humps thrown in as a mid level between stock heads and vortecs as with a new intake and other issues really dont make it that cost effective. People always throw 882s in there and they are...well...crap
I'm subscribed and I thumb up every video before I've even watched it...too bad there wasn't something else I could do to show how much I enjoy these! You rock, Richard!
I got told years ago by an old hot rodderthat the vortec heads "cant take heat". I decided to be my own judge and proceeded to the junk yards where I took 6 heads over the course of weeks to have them magnafluxed and finally got 2 good ones. 4 were cracked... I think they are good for power but I would be cautious with power adders as I am now of the same school (they cant take heat).
Eh, i have been a tech for 20 years. Ive seen a lot of cracks center bokt heads, right between the center 2 chambers in the head, but cant recall actually seeing vortech heads ever being cracked there.
i bought a vortec 5.7 out of a heavy 3/4 ton truck. 906 heads, and they were cracked right where the head bolt hole and the coolant port meet, and it starts to go between the chambers. never leaked a drop of coolant into the oil or engine. im gonna run em anyway(with a can of k&w block seal)
Stock vortec cylinder heads can make up to 480hp depending on cmpression ratio. They quit flowing at 525 of camshaft lift. I saw a Dyno test on another channel. So 480hp and spray it 350 shot of sniff what ya got? Lol one of the best stock performance heads from factory ever!!! Ed The Professional Backyard Sniper Man😎✌
@@richardholdener1727 yes sir. Its the vortec design air flow. It tumbles downward with the air instead of flowing like conventional older style heads. Its true. Scoggin dickeys sells the stock vortec head that makes that power. He mills the valve guides for higher lift and using beehive high rev springs to 575 lift and opens the exhaust ports slightly and gives the heads one piece stainless valves to match. All with 1.94 in 1.55 valves. Capable of up to 900hp with some kind of boost. About $1000 for the heads. You need a special solid lift roller cam for dirt track specs. No more than 245 dur. 12:1 comp. No B.S try it !
@@richardholdener1727 the Lt1 vortec heads of course with the saw tooth designs on the front of the castings. O62 # I think. Not the 906 casting. They flow more than 220 cfm
@@eddiecahall3824 Guys used to build boosted engines with 8:1 - 9:1 compression. The thinking was less static compression allows more boost. I've been noticing guys building 9:1 - 10:1 static and they're still able to blast big boost at it. How is it being done? Is it higher octane, race fuel, e85, better ECMs??? I'm asking because I'm thinking of building a street driven tow engine. Hoping for MPG and torque. I *think* small 350, efi, and boost. I hope to keep it reliable. If I can't do it with boost, plan B would be to build it naturally aspirated and lower my hp/tq expectations. Have you got any basic guidelines for my build?
The L82 with the RHS heads there at the end needs a Turbo! Just got done watching the turbo install on the stock LS and watched all those strong stock power numbers get pumped up!
I built a 350 for my 78 nova using 882 heads and from my drag strip numbers seemed to make a bit more power than the crate motor here (I had a bigger cam) but it really needed Vortec heads which would have woke it right up for cheap. As much as people love the LS engines Vortec still the best bang for the buck build out there. As simple as go to the junkyard and buy a truck motor! Rebuild with cam and upgraded rockers. Boom 375hp for like $1000 and it literally bolts into any old GM car/truck! Need more? Add a turbo. Wham 500-600hp. Just keep it under 6000rpm or your gunna have a bad time.
Really like the video. I've built small block engines but no way to see power difference. Have junkyard in the family so we mix up old with new parts. Cool to see actual numbers.
Yeah, me too. I cant step up to HR, even if I already have an HR block. I'm guessing the HF would need 8-10 degrees more duration to equal the HR in power, at the expense of bottom end and drivability. What say you, Richard?
One of the biggest gains with a roller is that the profile can be much more aggressive. Even if the lift is the same the roller can get there much quicker. You might be able to get a custom cam that would make everything match. At that point they would be basically the same. You don’t really loose that much in friction with a flat tappet.
I think I had a comp extreme energy cam and made 450hp and 525 ft lbs of torque with a 400sbc with vortec heads and airgap intake with a 750 DBL pumper carb with 34 degrees of timing
did the same with a 268 roller cam. same head gasket with larger manley pro flow necked down valves and 1.65-1 holland sharp rockers. rpm intake. very peppy lil engine that still got me 21 mpg in a 91 camaro with 3.73 gears and a 2500 lockup hughs converter. 750 holley double.
@@darinr9424 i ran a couple lpg carbs 650 cfm combined and was able to run alot more timing than pump gas 17 mpg on lpg 1500 silverado for 1 dollar per gallon
EVer done a build using the afr 190 vortecs? Would like to see a brute tq build done...with a not huge cam. 350 with a 2teens @ 050 deal, 112 lsa or 396ci Sad those GM crates had the price increase. for 1200 they were a killer bargain. Add a FT with another 12-15 deg duration you had a nice torque lil driver. Shame the L82s never had better heads or more compression. Sold mine 2 yrs ago to a vette guy
I know there is a large group of us c4 you guys that would love to see what you can do with our motor with the you we notice that most of your test are with carbs but we are all looking to increase hp without losing our fuel system.Thanks and even if you can't still enjoy your channel immensely
"Both the L79 and L46/L82 cams shared the same 114-degree lobe separation angles, but the two offered different intake centerlines and overlap figures. " RH in a Super Chevy web page.
My friend bought a 78 silver anniversary corvette had 22000 original miles he wanted a bit more power we put a set of new Vortec heads with screw in studs and decent springs and a 270@ .50 470 lift cam. It was a really strong running car then
@@benvolman4976 felpro 1255 intake gaskets work great. if your car is flat tappet cam(most likely) your stock pushrods will work. you will have to use the stock vortec rocker arms, or any aftermarket sbc self aligning rocker arm.
Vortec heads are great! As long as you find a set that aren't cracked. They were not very tolerant to being run hot. But still a fantastic factory iron head. I've been considering my options with my two squarebody chevy pickups. Neither one really needs an upgrade but being 79 and 86 both are just your standard smog era 350 low RPM stump pullers. Part of me wants to go with an L31 Vortec engine but part of me wonders why I should go through all that trouble when I could just drop a 5.3 LM7 in and have better power, a more modern fuel injection setup, and far more aftermarket support. It's these struggles that keep me up at night, lol.
Good episode Richard,I built a 408 with self ported iron Vortec heads.2.02 and1.6 Rev stainless valves that were.100 longer then stock so I could Comp 828 springs.They flowed 243 cfm at .400 on intake and 180 cfm on the exhaust.280 Comp extreme hydraulic roller with 1.6 magnum roller rockers and Edelbrock RPMAirgap and a 750 Demon carb,10 to 1 cr.I estimated 500 hp,this motor in a 1980 camaro 4 speed,342 poi’s was scary fast!!!would pull hard to 7000!!was a great street combo
Ported a set of GM vortecs for a friend...ran a smallish cam dp headers etc. Ran 12.80s in a 68 Camaro...lots of low 13 sec runs but it was a heaping ton better than stock and it was cheap. 400ci
I "think" that L46 cam was on a 114 LSA, not sure on the ICL... I would guess 108-109 though. Most GM cams have about 5-6 degrees of advance ground into them from what I have seen. Would have to toss one in the Cam Doctor to be 100% certain though.
Basic question: Why not run the whole engine vs just doing a vortec head swap? You get the heads, 1 piece rear main seal, and roller block. What am I missing? Is the stock cam caca? Are the pistons caca?
I'd rather have the 96 just because of the roller cam. Elgin makes a couple of $250ish cams that would likely be decent upgrades as well. I believe those are the E-1134 and E-1135.
Been tossing around the idea of doing some top end work to my 1988 K5 Blazer. It has a good running 350 TBI crate motor in it, great oil pressure and fires right up. I’m just bored with the swirl ports and performance and it’s only getting 10mpg so I might as well get a little performance out of it. I swapped in a sm465 manual and put 8 lug axles under it with 4.10’s and it’s on 35x12.50’s. Just looking to make it a nice cruiser that runs strong. Vortec heads, the right cam and carb it? I can regulate the in tank pump down to the right fuel pressure. What kind of cam would you be looking at? Love the videos, thanks!
The L82 also has forged factory crank and hi nickel 4 bolt man crank my 1976 L82 close ratio 4 speed vette makes 550 hp and 478 torque at 5500 rpm with 12 lbs of boost running comp blower cam ported Oem 2.02 factory heads com cam springs to match blower cam and machine work to heads to prevent coil bind .. I have owned the car since 1980 rebuilt the motor in 1989 for blower install raced 2 seasons in auto cross and solo 1 on road tracks in north Eastern Canada in B street prepared. Since I stripped all paint gel coated the body and painted it in blue and diamond metal flake old school paint job with silver and diamond flake cowl stripes and rear end . The car has big tube hooker headers to 3+ inch hand built dual exhaust , modded hei water methanol injection , after market ignition module and accell remote coil and twin electric fans and custom rad . The vette been lots of fun many of the parts are still Oem 1976 like the rotors and all front end mechanical and suspension I added home brew coil overshocks to stiffen up the off road stock suspension using an old school single 2000 lb overloader spring made for a Buick Electra which I cut in half with a grinder and 1/2 the spring to each rear racing shock also all rubbers was swapped to polyurethane.The mod made the ride even stiffer but got rid of the clunky ride and cost me $9.95 Canadian for the kit on clearance handling was greatly improved and in auto cross there was no body roll . The best part of ownership was all mods and rebuilds custom paint was completed in my garage by my self .I thank the deceased owner and mechanics and body men of Rader motors Chevy olds in Parkhill Ontario for teaching me all aspect these car during my 9 years of after school and summer and holiday employment 1967 to 1976 it was a great addition to shop classes and college electronics. 👍👍👍✌️✌️✌️
Can run LS beehive springs and + 0.050" retainers on the stock head and have decent clearance but You'll wanna have screw I studs (I've seen them ran w/o studs and be okay but I'd err on the safe side). So if ur going to the machine shop, may as well have guide boss trimmed down too for more clearance And possibly machined for more pushrod clearance And if ur running a na 350, for the most part a 108 lca will do well, 106 for 383 If you want to get carried away you can check out Larry Meuax stuff but unless ur running a specific class, just buy aftermarket heads then
Any chance of seeing results on a cam swap on a junkyard vortec 350? Cause I'm about to do that swap. Being a roller cam, higher compression engine, could you expect similar results if you found a roller cam that would work in the vortec application with similar specs to the 270H?
these videos really make me wonder what my SBC really makes (est. from locals very---500hp to 600hp), it did put a '72 Chevelle in the 10.20s@128 in the quarter, I lean to a really honest 500hp.
@@richardholdener1727 RE: my sbc-------It ran 10.20s on race gas, bigger carb. than I run in a BackHalfed, Big Tire, 5500 stalled PG, gutted Chevelle , was spinning it 8800rpms through the lights, (i saw it run 10.40s easy) now its in my little MGB, 4-speed street car, I think it's pretty sporty (by no means do I think my MGB is a 10 second car, but it'll gap a mid 11 second car from a roll)
Very interesting, as always! One suggestion tho - what does one change at a time make? Like just changing the cam, just changing the heads, THEN change both to show the combination.
The GM performance crate motor is rated at 290hp @5200rpm not 190hp. A GM performance crate motor is the only crate motor I see on GM's website.. although I could be mistaken but not about their estimated horsepower..
I'm thinking of putting a 1' spacer under an 800 cfm Quadraject because I read the large secondary throttle blades can protrude down into the manifold plenum when wide open and disrupt flow on a dual plane Edelbrock manifold.
Curiosity here...wondering what you'd guess a reasonable limit is for PM rods. Thanks for some interesting testing now makes me want to do a junk yard crawl to see what's hiding out there.
With some gasket matching and an RV style low rpm cam the 882 heads aren't all that bad. I ran them in a Caprice because I wanted that Grandpa spec stock look.
I’d love to see a test with only the heads changed so to see what the heads alone do. Changing the cam at the same time does not allow us to know how much better the heads are.
I hate to say it, but you are right. Everyone always does this. Someone please just do a scientific test, "-stock" base motor, dyno, upgrade heads only, dyno, upgrade cam, dyno. All I got was, "just buy performance heads and cam who cares what ya got" Another thing, these are too much cam for my liking, I usually stick around a ZZ4 cam 208/221 or GM LT4 hotcam, I don't like much lope
I get the idea here but it isn't very realistic. If you're going to change the heads but not change the cam to match and take advantage of the improvements then why bother? Putting good heads on a lousy cam doesn't really show you the potential of the heads. If the original cam isn't taxing the heads then the comparison shows you nothing useful. If you change the cam first then the heads and then the heads that could at least show you the limit of the original head versus the new ones.
@@willstikken5619 respectfully disagree. If I have a 69 Camaro Z28 302 with a Duntov 30/30 cam and I make "X" horsepower. I'm going to pull the heads and replace with a set of AFRs and my horsepower should go up. Yes, it will go up more with a cam, but put the cam in after you change the heads to see the full potential of the combo. This only makes sense if you're doing a video on a head swap. If you're doing a video on a cam swap: dyno the car stock, change the cam, dyno the car to get the cam change numbers, then change the heads and see the full potential. I wouldn't have an issue with this if the video title was, "Junkyard SBC Head Test Vortec head and cam FTW" Make sense? As an example, Everyone says Vortecs are better than your classic double humps, so just change the heads and lets see. If we change the 2 at the same time of course you'll have better numbers. Just advocating to make this more scientific is all
@@michaelcannizzo1076 If you have to pull out a fairly rare or unusual combo then i think you prove my point. The types of engines compared in the video were basic truck engines. A rational person wouldn't assume this applies to the "I want to ruin my rare combo" crowd. Regardless you need to have the engine on a reasonable baseline and comparing good heads on the type of stock cams in the video just wouldn't make any sense. If anything if gives the wrong sense of the heads potential.
@@willstikken5619 Believe me, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying take it one step at a time. Rare and usual combo aside if our motors are out of the car and in a dyno by all means do both, but if its in the car like most of us here I'm just looking to see what can pickup by doing the one thing. Again, you are totally right I'm just taking more issue with the title and felt a little misled because (I'm generalizing) everyone who does a swap, just throws both on in these videos
Why do you seem to have a wooden for wide LSA"s? Even in the 60's 106 was the standard, especially on smallish valve heads. Sure they had more compression but doesn't a low compression engine with 106-108 make alot more cranking compression? I don't know if you've already done this type of test, but I'm sure that many would like to see it for themselves. Above 5250 peak numbers don't mean squat on the street, nor flat torque curves if average torque suffers or if you can plant your tires properly. We'd appreciate it. Thanks
I have a 94 TBi k1500. We are buying a camper and I want to do some upgrades to the engine to help make it alittle happier going up hills. I'm planning on doing a cam but idk what one yet. I dont want it chopping like crazy because it needs to be drivable. Also plan to do headers and full exhaust and cold air intake. As was as a chip. Id like to be able to get about 250 to 260 hp out of it without doing heads if i can.
Yeah, that "190 hp" crate long block is essentially the same as the factory 87-95 TBI truck motor (ERR, ENGINE), a total dog. I've had two of em (in 88-95 TBI trucks) and they were slugs. I tried to soup one up a little with a homebrewed dual exhaust (for off road use only, OF COURSE😜) and TB spacer, CAI, etc. Might've made 210hp. Wheeee.
That sounds like my 4.3 with NV3500 and 3.23 rear gear. Its an absolute turd. I love the 5 speed, I HATE the 4.3 cause its disgustingly underpowered and the 3.23 I can take or leave but would love to swap it for a 3.73. Only issue is Im a poor college student so money is pretty much non existent to me
What about two 2" 4 hole phenolic spacers on a brodix 4 hole HP-1 intake manifold? XE274H10 cam, or best cam for it, ported aluminum assault racing heads 213CC runners 10:25:01 compression. The reason is eric weingartner has assault racing heads ported and fixed up by for someone and used a cam that people thought was talking about at O.O5O" specs , although was actually advertised specifications, also had 9.8:1 compression perfect for the cam and fuel, it was a hydraulic roller. Cam Specs:112 LSA, 215*/267*/O.O540" intake, 232*/284*/O.535" exhaust with 1.5 rockers and used 1.6:01 rockers, and made broad flatlines of 425 hp and 425 tq.!. And well i am want to figure out my combo before i build this one perfect for this combo as a base. So you recommend 1.3/4" headers over the 1.5?8" headers? well i may build a couple offset ground stock block strokers at= 377c.i. 350 based and 397c.i. 400 based. Rod ratios same as stock 350. Then the dart block ones at 431, 454, 468, and 483 c.i. SBC GEN 1. And with Dart 4.5" bore space getting 511 c.i. with safe for high power boring, and the billet 4.6" bore space billet blocks that are streetable. These are the directions i am is taking. Or do i just say oh well, get a merlin IV block make it huge , run peanut port aluminum, and be done with it.? i always had my sights make small blocks and keep from making a big block but if it truly is a great option for pro touring camaros that drive every day and tons of miles trouble free, than that is what i am using. Engine dyno pulls shall be loaded as low an rpm as possible. Oh well, i guess i shall just build iron motown ls7 hybrid block engines.
I have a stock vortec 350from a wrecked van with vortec intake quadrajet carb and ram horn duals. I am surprised how peppy it is in a 58 chevy wagon no wonder it has almost 400lbs of torque at 3500 RPM
Thanks Richard for this test. I have a 74 Corvette L82 I bought brand new in 74 that only has 49,000 miles on it. Already have a performer intake and long tubes on it. Been trying to decide weather to LS/LT swap it or just do heads, cam, and pistons. (It has the stock piston slap LOL). Good info here. I understand the LS swaps and the C3 platform require more effort than most swaps so upgrading what I have may be the way to go.
Unless you plan on changing your pistons for a set with different compression height than I'd stick with the l82 pistons. They have a smidge more compression height than the run of the mill 350s cast pistons had. And they're forged pistons(hence the piston slap) so they're quite a bit tougher(they can handle higher rpm, boost, and spark knock alot better than cast does).
Darryl Brown yep, the stock pistons are forged but quiet a bit louder than other forged motors I run. I would do a forged piston with more compression ratio as I don’t spray and no real plan for boost. I’ll leave that for my other junk. LOL I know the bore may have to be cleaned up for new pistons.
I actually have a set of GM prototype Vortec SBC heads. Very interesting approach they tried with them. It would be interesting to see if they have any advantages over production ones.
I have 1 of those in my 69 impala and I’m getting too much lifter noise from that cheap camshaft. Summit racing sold me a hydraulic roller cam that I can put in those blocks
The reason I ask is because I have seen on your video where y’all put a cam in there that was larger than 480 lift on Vortech heads and I was wondering if y’all had to machine the heads
I watched this test on the speed secrets video, but I just want to double check. These heads weren't machined to clear the cam lift, right? It was just the comp springs/retainers, etc that allowed the lift?
Carb spacers usually cool the intake charge and add a lot more power when they're tapped and have nozzles in them 😜
Well Played, Sir!!!
Giggle giggle
A true winner has spoken
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You win the internet.
Love seeing these good old SBC tests! Decades of life still in that baby!
@@BuzzLOLOL I'm glad you told that Joe Biden loving gun banning clown off.
I remember when I was in highschool and vortec heads were THE upgrade. Everybody was after those suckers!
What about the 487X heads?
@Lyle Johnston Did ya steal his girl, too?
Dog Training Collars by RedLee, 487X, the holy grail of dirt track SBC heads! 😄
Lyle Johnston is hat did it put down
Bad Luck Garage ...and the best part is how THE junkyards have an abundant supply of those suckers.
This is exactly the kind of trial and error stuff I love to hear about. Used to watch MotorTrend for this very stuff. Now that they've gone Corporate. I'm watching this. Subscribed!!!
Late 90s Vortec roller block 350 is a hell of a motor. Look how many have 300k miles and still hauling trailers. Got one with a 383 kit in a boat and it kicks ass.
Mine was a 98 5.7 Vortec and I sold the truck when it had 431,000 miles on it. Thst thing was a beast. She did scrap hauling where id load the bed so much I had to inflate the bags, she handled a few pulls here and there and rarely would pull a trailer but she still didn't care. Ill alwayd swear by the 350 small block no matter what. She was a gas hog but I didn't care. It was well worth it
I love the vortec motor except dealing with the ECM and the sensors. I may do a carb swap on one of them.
I love watching Richards videos, he asks the every guy questions and answers them honestly through trial and error. Hes not bragging or acting arrogant while hes doing it and gives a straight up truthful analysis when its all said and done. Is he an expert? Id like to think so and hope he keeps putting out content because hes helping the hotrod community become a better place for all of us.
Building a 880 vortec headed sbc with a xr276hr right now, I'd love to see how the late model small blocks react to roller cam upgrades!
That L-82 upgrade blew me away! You added 14 degrees of duration @ .050 and increased runner volume by roughly 40cc and it gained EVERYWHERE!! Even down at 3000 rpm it gained over 30 lb/ft of torque! Everything I was taught in the nineties went completely out the window. I was expecting a loss below 3500 because of the longer cam duration and decrease in air speed from the 25 percent larger intake runner volume.
I tore down a stock L-82 many years ago out of a mid 70s corvette. It had a forged crank, 4 bolt mains, forged flat top pistons, a windage tray and baffled pan. The heads were big chamber but they had screw in studs and guide plates.
windage tray, guideplates and screw in studs are definitely not stock.
Kimbal Mackinnon Sorry, but I’ve got a stock L-82 from a 74 Vette torn down in the garage, can’t vouch for the windage tray but I can confirm that the original 882 heads do in fact have screw-in studs & guideplates, and can also confirm the forged crank, forged flat-top pistons, 4 bolt mains, as well as “pink” rods. As Richard mentions, the L-82 is a low compression version of the L-46 350/350hp engine, the hottest hydraulic cammed 350 and pretty close in specs (besides cam) to the LT-1. Amazing how the L-82’s quietly carried all that good hardware through the dark days of the 70’s!
@@rustysausage69 All stock, numbers matching 4speed 1975 corvette. Do some research on the L-82.They were a really good engine with really good internals- especially for the smog era. All that good stuff came on it. The L-48 from the same year- none of it.
@@bsrktm1 Yeah, even the L-83 in my 84 vette has forged pistons and a windage tray. The rest of it is cast. The L82 was a pretty good motor to build from.
M W my 1976 corvette L82 had windage tray forged crank pink rods trw pistons 2.02 882 heads . I hand ported the heads and had bronze guides installed and machine work done to allow for springs matched to comp cam with high lift and short duration, rhoads lifters ,roller rockers . Rebuilt engine with clevite 77 bearings double roller timing chain felpro head gaskets with fire rings and moly rings ,hi volume oil pump reworked hei big tube headers dual 3 inch exhaust and super charger with boost referenced 780 Holley . Passenger are pinned to the seat in first and second gear . Agree with all you comments on the L82 also the block are hi nickel go foundation to build on
If you get a Vortec from a salvage yard get a roller-cam Vortec! Have the machine shop machine the heads so you can put a big cam and better springs in it. Also put a Victor JR manifold with an air gap on it and a big CFM carb on it. Fairly cheap and easy 500 HP/500 lbs torque. Geat your money's worth! Go for the gusto!
victor jr not a good choice
@@richardholdener1727 if you are going for HP you certainly don't want a dual plane manifold
Dont need to.they mske a spring that will work
@@ryangulley2051 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,beehive or ovate.....................................
Many people downgrade the crate motor ?But it is a good engine for general purposes. A Quadrabog and headers and off ya go. Good for Towing. It would burn rubber if tires were not to big. But put a Crane Saturday night special cam in it an hold on to your Gonads. It will rip through with midrange torque you would never expect. Still the SBC is tough to beat for performance price and ease of working on.
They take a beating and continue to work. CAT is Grinning.
add vortec heads and it jumps up another 75 horsepower
You do gods work sir. I appreciate you beyond words! You teach me things I never ever wondered about but love that I know now haha
Great Test!
I've built a bunch of SBC engines with Vortec heads and we always got 375-385hp from them. We used the same GM Goodwrench 190hp short block but with a Comp Cams Retro roller cam (XM270HR). We did the same spring upgrade with the short style valve seals on the stock 906 heads and used an Edelbrock RPM Vortec intake with a 650-680 cfm carb.
BTW if you use a Vortec engine and use the XR270HR Cam with the same set up it will produce 355-365hp. It never seemed to be as strong as the Goodwrench combo by about 12-15hp, we always thought it was because the compression of the Vortec engine was a little lower than the Goodwrench with the 64cc chambers. Rich, (and you guys out there) you might have another theory. :-)
I have the 270HR cam in my GM 'hecho en mexico' engine with slightly shaved 906 heads and holley 650. it is a screamer for sure! Much better performing than the sportsman II double hump knockoffs that were on my last SBC.
@@YOUKNOOB port those sportman 11 heads and it would destroy any vortec ported any day.i have almost 300 cfms out of a sportsman 11 head and 200 on the exhaust very good head when ported with a 2.05 valve
What short style valve seals part number are you using sir ???
@@tonywalker2334 My dad was the head "guru" and he died in 2007. That said, I'm sure you don't have the same problems today with the spring, retainer, and locks that are offered for the Vortec heads. In the beginning (90's) we used PC style seals because we were using dual valve springs, the PC's of the day were skinny allowing room for the dual springs but they had an extra lip on the top that took another 20-30 thousandths sometimes, so we found that using a more expensive single spring with a Viton style seal that was bigger around but actually was a little bit shorter on the guide. Couple that with the right retainer and we had enough room for the lift we were using. We soon stopped using flat-tappets and went to ALL roller cams, at that point, my dad cut down the bosses giving him all the room for many options but in our flat-tappet engines of the day, we were only trying to get .470-/475 lift. My dad used to always say "measure everything 3 times because with the right combination of parts we can come up with the room we need for anything". He would get his height mic, and a test spring and start mix-matching til he found his magic set up. I dont know the part numbers but, I have heard there is an LS "beehive" spring with a short retainer and lock set that will allow .525+ lift on a stock 906 head but I haven't used it. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
@@tonywalker2334 COMP Cams Race Valve Locks 648-16 and COMP Cams Steel Valve Spring Retainers 787-16....you gotta use both along with the beehive ls springs for lift: GM Parts 12499224 Valve Spring for LS1 Engine
Thank you for all the enthusiasm and comprehensive information.
Good thing about a Vortec block is its already setup for a Roller cam
Depending on the year the truck v8s didn't have a stock roller cam until 1995
The car v8s came stock roller in 87
@@nickstewart3295 The vortec 350 was introduced in 96.
@@user-ge2qn6gp4o
Yup. The older ones were just called center bolt. Vortec is 96+, excluding LTs and LS.
You have to upgrade the valve train a good bit to run a higher lift cam, Vortec is a great start.
Buddy of mine had a 377sbc on e85 with vortex heads ported in his 3gen camaro and small flat tapet cam ran 6.90 in the 1/8th amazing build that was really simple
I have a 383 with vortec heads in a C10 great all around engine for this truck
Do you have videos or spec on your build? I’m contemplating the 350 with vortec heads or the 383 with vortec heads in my 85 c10
@@marcusmccomb1789 you will be happy with a small block in a c10
@@charlesroyal3428 do you have specs on your 383 build aside from the vortec heads?
Great video. Up here in Canada, the wreckers move trucks quickly, so vortec heads are hard to find now, but I've located a pair. This is motivation.
Hoping to greatly improve on the 170 flywheel hp that the Wallace racing calculator estimates my poor 95 suburban has left.
Are you swapping to carb or is there a tbi intake available that bolts to the vortec heads?
I loved this test. I can't wait to see the same types of things on a 360 Magnum.
Seriously! Can't get no love for the dodge
Mopar always produces more power.
I had a 75 L82, it had 882 heads with 2.02-1.6 valves in them. Also forged single valve relief pistons. I ported the heads and put them on a flat top 400 with a xe262 and 1.6 rockers. The 400 was a torque monster!
That's a lie
We run big valve 882 heads in stock class engines on dirt tracks..they flow fairly well for a big chamber head. Zero decking the block helps them a lot.
882 heads are the best of the worst. Any 441 or 487 casting is a far better choice not only in flow but in strength. The 882 is a light weight casting whereas the 441 and 487 arent. Theyre all stock heads and less than even stock vortecs but thats up to what you want and how much money you have to spend.
GREAT VIDEO RICHARD!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! I LEARNED A LOT!!!!! A JUNKYARD 350 IS THE WAY TO GO!!!!! THANKS FOR SHARING!!!!!
Great video! I really like watching the average guy type of engine combinations...
Should do a test to see how much power different rocker ratios gain
SBC FTW------------------sure is easy to make 400hp with a nothin' sbc--it's actually pretty cool, in a reasonably light car would fun (and cheap)
I've got a 500hp sbc in my MGB (2350lbs)
Excellent Buzz, must be fun
I ran a worked set of Vortec heads with 2.02/1.60 valves on a 355 with a Lunati voodoo cam with 498/504 lift. Also ran a Holley 750 on a Edelbrock RPM intake. Great little motor on the street
Back in the day those were a pretty good set of lobes. Still are respectable today.
Built a 383 as my first engine with a Voodoo cam (wrong lobe separation at 110 but I didn't know better back then)
They'll grind one for ya at whatever you want too btw
17 years later and it's still running strong
Thank you man, currently working on a 79 camaro. The information you put out is very helpful. You got a new subscriber.
Awesome, thank you!
Would like to see a well ported set of the much maligned camel humps thrown in as a mid level between stock heads and vortecs as with a new intake and other issues really dont make it that cost effective. People always throw 882s in there and they are...well...crap
PORTED FUELIE HEADS WILL DO BETTER THAN STOCK VORTEC HEADS
I'm subscribed and I thumb up every video before I've even watched it...too bad there wasn't something else I could do to show how much I enjoy these! You rock, Richard!
I got told years ago by an old hot rodderthat the vortec heads "cant take heat". I decided to be my own judge and proceeded to the junk yards where I took 6 heads over the course of weeks to have them magnafluxed and finally got 2 good ones. 4 were cracked... I think they are good for power but I would be cautious with power adders as I am now of the same school (they cant take heat).
I bet all those heads would have ran fine even with the cracks
@@austindoud273 possibly. Didn't want to have to top off the coolant every time I put gas in it tho.
This is true , spend a grand on some aluminum heads and eat
Eh, i have been a tech for 20 years. Ive seen a lot of cracks center bokt heads, right between the center 2 chambers in the head, but cant recall actually seeing vortech heads ever being cracked there.
i bought a vortec 5.7 out of a heavy 3/4 ton truck. 906 heads, and they were cracked right where the head bolt hole and the coolant port meet, and it starts to go between the chambers. never leaked a drop of coolant into the oil or engine. im gonna run em anyway(with a can of k&w block seal)
Stock vortec cylinder heads can make up to 480hp depending on cmpression ratio. They quit flowing at 525 of camshaft lift. I saw a Dyno test on another channel. So 480hp and spray it 350 shot of sniff what ya got? Lol one of the best stock performance heads from factory ever!!! Ed The Professional Backyard Sniper Man😎✌
480 HP ON AHEAD THAT FLOWS 210-220 CFM?
@@richardholdener1727 yes sir. Its the vortec design air flow. It tumbles downward with the air instead of flowing like conventional older style heads. Its true. Scoggin dickeys sells the stock vortec head that makes that power. He mills the valve guides for higher lift and using beehive high rev springs to 575 lift and opens the exhaust ports slightly and gives the heads one piece stainless valves to match. All with 1.94 in 1.55 valves. Capable of up to 900hp with some kind of boost. About $1000 for the heads. You need a special solid lift roller cam for dirt track specs. No more than 245 dur. 12:1 comp. No B.S try it !
@@richardholdener1727 the Lt1 vortec heads of course with the saw tooth designs on the front of the castings. O62 # I think. Not the 906 casting. They flow more than 220 cfm
@@eddiecahall3824
Guys used to build boosted engines with 8:1 - 9:1 compression. The thinking was less static compression allows more boost.
I've been noticing guys building 9:1 - 10:1 static and they're still able to blast big boost at it.
How is it being done? Is it higher octane, race fuel, e85, better ECMs???
I'm asking because I'm thinking of building a street driven tow engine. Hoping for MPG and torque. I *think* small 350, efi, and boost. I hope to keep it reliable.
If I can't do it with boost, plan B would be to build it naturally aspirated and lower my hp/tq expectations.
Have you got any basic guidelines for my build?
The L82 with the RHS heads there at the end needs a Turbo! Just got done watching the turbo install on the stock LS and watched all those strong stock power numbers get pumped up!
I built a 350 for my 78 nova using 882 heads and from my drag strip numbers seemed to make a bit more power than the crate motor here (I had a bigger cam) but it really needed Vortec heads which would have woke it right up for cheap. As much as people love the LS engines Vortec still the best bang for the buck build out there. As simple as go to the junkyard and buy a truck motor! Rebuild with cam and upgraded rockers. Boom 375hp for like $1000 and it literally bolts into any old GM car/truck! Need more? Add a turbo. Wham 500-600hp. Just keep it under 6000rpm or your gunna have a bad time.
This channel has probably the best like to dislike ratio on youtube
I like the belt driven carb spacer combined with the one with nozzles because I like to party!
Really like the video. I've built small block engines but no way to see power difference. Have junkyard in the family so we mix up old with new parts. Cool to see actual numbers.
Love the vlog! I would like to see a cam comparisan between Hyd Flat tappet and a Hyd/ Mech roller with similar duration profiles.
Yeah, me too. I cant step up to HR, even if I already have an HR block. I'm guessing the HF would need 8-10 degrees more duration to equal the HR in power, at the expense of bottom end and drivability. What say you, Richard?
One of the biggest gains with a roller is that the profile can be much more aggressive. Even if the lift is the same the roller can get there much quicker. You might be able to get a custom cam that would make everything match. At that point they would be basically the same. You don’t really loose that much in friction with a flat tappet.
I’d like to see stock Vortecs on a stock 400 short block.
That was my very basic build plan for my 90 T/A TPI. All the torques!
I have that combo on my 77 Chevy short van. Comp 260 cam. Runs like a raped ape.
With a cam
Calvin Evans, Yes of course. 😄👍🏻
DrewLSsix, Sounds fun. 👍🏻
I'm doing the same build with an L83 and vortec heads. Happy to see results of a similar build!
It'd be kinda cool to see what an old Torker intake would to the L82. Cause that's what 70s Corvette guys would do
My 406 bent rods so I put this combo together and can’t believe how good it runs in 3rd gen camaro
I think I had a comp extreme energy cam and made 450hp and 525 ft lbs of torque with a 400sbc with vortec heads and airgap intake with a 750 DBL pumper carb with 34 degrees of timing
Did you have to drill steam holes in the heads?
Great combo, strong engine.
@@davidjaime2061 he is a liar.
@@wildestcowboy2668 hp number maybe...525 tq not a chance
@@gordocarbo Have you ever ran a MIGHTY MOPAR BIG BLOCK HEMI thru a quarter while spraying?
Great video, thank you for documenting and showing what junkyard 350 Vortec does
Chevy Q-jets are 750 CFM. Try 1-1/2"headers on the Chevy heads, and a cam on a 108 LS. We got over 20 HP out of custom headers. Great videos.
Junkyard vortec 1.6 rockers .15 head gaskets and rpm air gap that was an amazing engine
did the same with a 268 roller cam. same head gasket with larger manley pro flow necked down valves and 1.65-1 holland sharp rockers. rpm intake. very peppy lil engine that still got me 21 mpg in a 91 camaro with 3.73 gears and a 2500 lockup hughs converter. 750 holley double.
@@darinr9424 i ran a couple lpg carbs 650 cfm combined and was able to run alot more timing than pump gas 17 mpg on lpg 1500 silverado for 1 dollar per gallon
I would like to see a carb test. Holley vs edelbrock on a mild motor vs wild motor.
EVer done a build using the afr 190 vortecs? Would like to see a brute tq build done...with a not huge cam.
350 with a 2teens @ 050 deal, 112 lsa or 396ci
Sad those GM crates had the price increase. for 1200 they were a killer bargain. Add a FT with another 12-15 deg duration you had a nice torque lil driver.
Shame the L82s never had better heads or more compression. Sold mine 2 yrs ago to a vette guy
I always wanted to swap a crate engine like this into an LG4 3rd gen and make a project out of it.
im there...........
I know there is a large group of us c4 you guys that would love to see what you can do with our motor with the you we notice that most of your test are with carbs but we are all looking to increase hp without losing our fuel system.Thanks and even if you can't still enjoy your channel immensely
Richard is a TPI master...way back when he was running a a blown 400 wiht superram. Done many a tpi build for c4 forum guys.
I NEED A WRONG CAM SHIRT!!! I hope that's the official name of your cam lineup.
It will be all cams are turbo cams
Bad Example Garage And what’s he done wrong in this video then dude? Not used your favourite camshaft, how dare he...
"Both the L79 and L46/L82 cams shared the same 114-degree lobe separation angles, but the two offered different intake centerlines and overlap figures. " RH in a Super Chevy web page.
My friend bought a 78 silver anniversary corvette had 22000 original miles he wanted a bit more power we put a set of new Vortec heads with screw in studs and decent springs and a 270@ .50 470 lift cam. It was a really strong running car then
I'm trying to do the same on a 74 Vette. Can you tell me what you guys used for an intake gasket? Also did you have to redo the push rods?
@@benvolman4976 felpro 1255 intake gaskets work great. if your car is flat tappet cam(most likely) your stock pushrods will work. you will have to use the stock vortec rocker arms, or any aftermarket sbc self aligning rocker arm.
Proof that the original small block aint dead yet!
Thanks for the video. I was looking forward to the cam swap in the Vortec and also the mention that it is a roller cam block. Thank you!
I'll take the Upgraded L82 in a '72 Nova with a 5spd Manual. Green with a Saddle interior please 😁
Vortec heads are great! As long as you find a set that aren't cracked. They were not very tolerant to being run hot. But still a fantastic factory iron head. I've been considering my options with my two squarebody chevy pickups. Neither one really needs an upgrade but being 79 and 86 both are just your standard smog era 350 low RPM stump pullers. Part of me wants to go with an L31 Vortec engine but part of me wonders why I should go through all that trouble when I could just drop a 5.3 LM7 in and have better power, a more modern fuel injection setup, and far more aftermarket support. It's these struggles that keep me up at night, lol.
A vortec, with a tpi setup, would be great for massive low end torque for those trucks! 👍
Try to find the marine application
Good episode Richard,I built a 408 with self ported iron Vortec heads.2.02 and1.6 Rev stainless valves that were.100 longer then stock so I could Comp 828 springs.They flowed 243 cfm at .400 on intake and 180 cfm on the exhaust.280 Comp extreme hydraulic roller with 1.6 magnum roller rockers and Edelbrock RPMAirgap and a 750 Demon carb,10 to 1 cr.I estimated 500 hp,this motor in a 1980 camaro 4 speed,342 poi’s was scary fast!!!would pull hard to 7000!!was a great street combo
nice combo
Ported a set of GM vortecs for a friend...ran a smallish cam dp headers etc. Ran 12.80s in a 68 Camaro...lots of low 13 sec runs but it was a heaping ton better than stock and it was cheap. 400ci
I "think" that L46 cam was on a 114 LSA, not sure on the ICL... I would guess 108-109 though. Most GM cams have about 5-6 degrees of advance ground into them from what I have seen. Would have to toss one in the Cam Doctor to be 100% certain though.
This is exactly the video I was looking for. Thank you.
Basic question: Why not run the whole engine vs just doing a vortec head swap?
You get the heads, 1 piece rear main seal, and roller block.
What am I missing? Is the stock cam caca? Are the pistons caca?
we had a different motor-you can also run the whole Vortec motor
How about a carb test? Test quad, holley, demon, proform, quickfuel, etc. on same motor to see the differences. Thanks for the videos!!
Thank you for the dyno noise sir. My ears were getting itchy
I'd rather have the 96 just because of the roller cam. Elgin makes a couple of $250ish cams that would likely be decent upgrades as well. I believe those are the E-1134 and E-1135.
Been tossing around the idea of doing some top end work to my 1988 K5 Blazer. It has a good running 350 TBI crate motor in it, great oil pressure and fires right up. I’m just bored with the swirl ports and performance and it’s only getting 10mpg so I might as well get a little performance out of it. I swapped in a sm465 manual and put 8 lug axles under it with 4.10’s and it’s on 35x12.50’s. Just looking to make it a nice cruiser that runs strong. Vortec heads, the right cam and carb it? I can regulate the in tank pump down to the right fuel pressure. What kind of cam would you be looking at? Love the videos, thanks!
218/224
Have you ever run mercruiser 350 mag engine? They just a vortec?
The L82 also has forged factory crank and hi nickel 4 bolt man crank my 1976 L82 close ratio 4 speed vette makes 550 hp and 478 torque at 5500 rpm with 12 lbs of boost running comp blower cam ported Oem 2.02 factory heads com cam springs to match blower cam and machine work to heads to prevent coil bind .. I have owned the car since 1980 rebuilt the motor in 1989 for blower install raced 2 seasons in auto cross and solo 1 on road tracks in north Eastern Canada in B street prepared. Since I stripped all paint gel coated the body and painted it in blue and diamond metal flake old school paint job with silver and diamond flake cowl stripes and rear end . The car has big tube hooker headers to 3+ inch hand built dual exhaust , modded hei water methanol injection , after market ignition module and accell remote coil and twin electric fans and custom rad . The vette been lots of fun many of the parts are still Oem 1976 like the rotors and all front end mechanical and suspension I added home brew coil overshocks to stiffen up the off road stock suspension using an old school single 2000 lb overloader spring made for a Buick Electra which I cut in half with a grinder and 1/2 the spring to each rear racing shock also all rubbers was swapped to polyurethane.The mod made the ride even stiffer but got rid of the clunky ride and cost me $9.95 Canadian for the kit on clearance handling was greatly improved and in auto cross there was no body roll . The best part of ownership was all mods and rebuilds custom paint was completed in my garage by my self .I thank the deceased owner and mechanics and body men of Rader motors Chevy olds in Parkhill Ontario for teaching me all aspect these car during my 9 years of after school and summer and holiday employment 1967 to 1976 it was a great addition to shop classes and college electronics. 👍👍👍✌️✌️✌️
Would love to see a Vortec head intake shoot out speedmaster dual plane air gap vs eldebrock
Can run LS beehive springs and + 0.050" retainers on the stock head and have decent clearance but
You'll wanna have screw I studs (I've seen them ran w/o studs and be okay but I'd err on the safe side). So if ur going to the machine shop, may as well have guide boss trimmed down too for more clearance
And possibly machined for more pushrod clearance
And if ur running a na 350, for the most part a 108 lca will do well, 106 for 383
If you want to get carried away you can check out Larry Meuax stuff but unless ur running a specific class, just buy aftermarket heads then
Would love to see the same video on a 4.3 v6. Regular heads vs vortec heads
Any chance of seeing results on a cam swap on a junkyard vortec 350? Cause I'm about to do that swap. Being a roller cam, higher compression engine, could you expect similar results if you found a roller cam that would work in the vortec application with similar specs to the 270H?
these videos really make me wonder what my SBC really makes (est. from locals very---500hp to 600hp), it did put a '72 Chevelle in the 10.20s@128 in the quarter, I lean to a really honest 500hp.
if it runs 10.20s-you are good!
@@richardholdener1727 RE: my sbc-------It ran 10.20s on race gas, bigger carb. than I run in a BackHalfed, Big Tire, 5500 stalled PG, gutted Chevelle , was spinning it 8800rpms through the lights, (i saw it run 10.40s easy) now its in my little MGB, 4-speed street car, I think it's pretty sporty (by no means do I think my MGB is a 10 second car, but it'll gap a mid 11 second car from a roll)
P.S, there's NO GM parts inside my sbc--straight up race engine
Very interesting, as always! One suggestion tho - what does one change at a time make? Like just changing the cam, just changing the heads, THEN change both to show the combination.
that's how I normally do it-the order of which you change first also affects the gains offered
The GM performance crate motor is rated at 290hp @5200rpm not 190hp. A GM performance crate motor is the only crate motor I see on GM's website.. although I could be mistaken but not about their estimated horsepower..
Short, to the point and interesting.
Thumbed
I'm thinking of putting a 1' spacer under an 800 cfm Quadraject because I read the large secondary throttle blades can protrude down into the manifold plenum when wide open and disrupt flow on a dual plane Edelbrock manifold.
Curiosity here...wondering what you'd guess a reasonable limit is for PM rods. Thanks for some interesting testing now makes me want to do a junk yard crawl to see what's hiding out there.
With some gasket matching and an RV style low rpm cam the 882 heads aren't all that bad. I ran them in a Caprice because I wanted that Grandpa spec stock look.
they are the best of worst,as mentioned
Have you ever done a upgrade on the L31? Those work horse's are at the end of life.
I’d love to see a test with only the heads changed so to see what the heads alone do. Changing the cam at the same time does not allow us to know how much better the heads are.
I hate to say it, but you are right. Everyone always does this. Someone please just do a scientific test, "-stock" base motor, dyno, upgrade heads only, dyno, upgrade cam, dyno. All I got was, "just buy performance heads and cam who cares what ya got" Another thing, these are too much cam for my liking, I usually stick around a ZZ4 cam 208/221 or GM LT4 hotcam, I don't like much lope
I get the idea here but it isn't very realistic. If you're going to change the heads but not change the cam to match and take advantage of the improvements then why bother? Putting good heads on a lousy cam doesn't really show you the potential of the heads. If the original cam isn't taxing the heads then the comparison shows you nothing useful. If you change the cam first then the heads and then the heads that could at least show you the limit of the original head versus the new ones.
@@willstikken5619 respectfully disagree. If I have a 69 Camaro Z28 302 with a Duntov 30/30 cam and I make "X" horsepower. I'm going to pull the heads and replace with a set of AFRs and my horsepower should go up. Yes, it will go up more with a cam, but put the cam in after you change the heads to see the full potential of the combo. This only makes sense if you're doing a video on a head swap. If you're doing a video on a cam swap: dyno the car stock, change the cam, dyno the car to get the cam change numbers, then change the heads and see the full potential. I wouldn't have an issue with this if the video title was, "Junkyard SBC Head Test Vortec head and cam FTW" Make sense? As an example, Everyone says Vortecs are better than your classic double humps, so just change the heads and lets see. If we change the 2 at the same time of course you'll have better numbers. Just advocating to make this more scientific is all
@@michaelcannizzo1076 If you have to pull out a fairly rare or unusual combo then i think you prove my point. The types of engines compared in the video were basic truck engines. A rational person wouldn't assume this applies to the "I want to ruin my rare combo" crowd.
Regardless you need to have the engine on a reasonable baseline and comparing good heads on the type of stock cams in the video just wouldn't make any sense. If anything if gives the wrong sense of the heads potential.
@@willstikken5619 Believe me, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying take it one step at a time. Rare and usual combo aside if our motors are out of the car and in a dyno by all means do both, but if its in the car like most of us here I'm just looking to see what can pickup by doing the one thing. Again, you are totally right I'm just taking more issue with the title and felt a little misled because (I'm generalizing) everyone who does a swap, just throws both on in these videos
Ill like to see a test between a vortec head vs a procomp head basically the best factory head vs the cheapest aftermarket alumnim head
Why do you seem to have a wooden for wide LSA"s? Even in the 60's 106 was the standard, especially on smallish valve heads. Sure they had more compression but doesn't a low compression engine with 106-108 make alot more cranking compression? I don't know if you've already done this type of test, but I'm sure that many would like to see it for themselves. Above 5250 peak numbers don't mean squat on the street, nor flat torque curves if average torque suffers or if you can plant your tires properly. We'd appreciate it. Thanks
please see the lsa cam test video
Nice video as always. Any guesses of what my boosted engine will produce hp/tq N/A?
355cui sbc
dualplane
blueprint as cast heads
195cc Intake flow heads:
.100" - 83
.200" - 150
.300" - 190
.400" - 223
.500" - 252
.600" - 245
75cc Exhaust flow heads:
.100" - 83
.200" - 130
.300" - 166
.400" - 193
.500" - 207
.600" - 213
8.5:1 compression
220 / 220 - 114 Deg @.050 Lift intake .523 . exhaust .515
I have a 94 TBi k1500. We are buying a camper and I want to do some upgrades to the engine to help make it alittle happier going up hills. I'm planning on doing a cam but idk what one yet. I dont want it chopping like crazy because it needs to be drivable. Also plan to do headers and full exhaust and cold air intake. As was as a chip. Id like to be able to get about 250 to 260 hp out of it without doing heads if i can.
Yeah, that "190 hp" crate long block is essentially the same as the factory 87-95 TBI truck motor (ERR, ENGINE), a total dog. I've had two of em (in 88-95 TBI trucks) and they were slugs. I tried to soup one up a little with a homebrewed dual exhaust (for off road use only, OF COURSE😜) and TB spacer, CAI, etc. Might've made 210hp. Wheeee.
True, but if you had that engine with a AOD transmission it would last 300,000 easily and give you decent fuel milage.
forgot to add a cam,aluminum intake and vortec heads WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
That sounds like my 4.3 with NV3500 and 3.23 rear gear. Its an absolute turd. I love the 5 speed, I HATE the 4.3 cause its disgustingly underpowered and the 3.23 I can take or leave but would love to swap it for a 3.73. Only issue is Im a poor college student so money is pretty much non existent to me
What about two 2" 4 hole phenolic spacers on a brodix 4 hole HP-1 intake manifold? XE274H10 cam, or best cam for it, ported aluminum assault racing heads 213CC runners 10:25:01 compression. The reason is eric weingartner has assault racing heads ported and fixed up by for someone and used a cam that people thought was talking about at O.O5O" specs , although was actually advertised specifications, also had 9.8:1 compression perfect for the cam and fuel, it was a hydraulic roller. Cam Specs:112 LSA, 215*/267*/O.O540" intake, 232*/284*/O.535" exhaust with 1.5 rockers and used 1.6:01 rockers, and made broad flatlines of 425 hp and 425 tq.!. And well i am want to figure out my combo before i build this one perfect for this combo as a base. So you recommend 1.3/4" headers over the 1.5?8" headers? well i may build a couple offset ground stock block strokers at= 377c.i. 350 based and 397c.i. 400 based. Rod ratios same as stock 350. Then the dart block ones at 431, 454, 468, and 483 c.i. SBC GEN 1. And with Dart 4.5" bore space getting 511 c.i. with safe for high power boring, and the billet 4.6" bore space billet blocks that are streetable. These are the directions i am is taking. Or do i just say oh well, get a merlin IV block make it huge , run peanut port aluminum, and be done with it.? i always had my sights make small blocks and keep from making a big block but if it truly is a great option for pro touring camaros that drive every day and tons of miles trouble free, than that is what i am using. Engine dyno pulls shall be loaded as low an rpm as possible. Oh well, i guess i shall just build iron motown ls7 hybrid block engines.
Thanks much for this . This is the exact info that I've been searching for . Same application that for what I'm working with . Very beneficial .
I have a stock vortec 350from a wrecked van with vortec intake quadrajet carb and ram horn duals. I am surprised how peppy it is in a 58 chevy wagon no wonder it has almost 400lbs of torque at 3500 RPM
Thanks Richard for this test. I have a 74 Corvette L82 I bought brand new in 74 that only has 49,000 miles on it. Already have a performer intake and long tubes on it. Been trying to decide weather to LS/LT swap it or just do heads, cam, and pistons. (It has the stock piston slap LOL). Good info here. I understand the LS swaps and the C3 platform require more effort than most swaps so upgrading what I have may be the way to go.
Unless you plan on changing your pistons for a set with different compression height than I'd stick with the l82 pistons. They have a smidge more compression height than the run of the mill 350s cast pistons had. And they're forged pistons(hence the piston slap) so they're quite a bit tougher(they can handle higher rpm, boost, and spark knock alot better than cast does).
Darryl Brown yep, the stock pistons are forged but quiet a bit louder than other forged motors I run. I would do a forged piston with more compression ratio as I don’t spray and no real plan for boost. I’ll leave that for my other junk. LOL I know the bore may have to be cleaned up for new pistons.
Build what you have!! No need for an ls swap. THey are not cheap to do properly like most think and the 5.3 is anything but impressive.
I would love to see old dish piston 350 with double hump heads and a comp 280 com cam
The 190 hp GM crate motor has a two year warranty,junkyard motor 30 days?
Someday you will have tested everything for all engines i can't wait to see them all
I actually have a set of GM prototype Vortec SBC heads. Very interesting approach they tried with them. It would be interesting to see if they have any advantages over production ones.
they wont,sorry..........prototypes are generally a design experiment /rough draft so why would they be better
Wholly hell , the graph looks like two different engines.
I have 1 of those in my 69 impala and I’m getting too much lifter noise from that cheap camshaft. Summit racing sold me a hydraulic roller cam that I can put in those blocks
Hey Richard, Congratulations on 80000 Subscribers. Well done Mate
Liking all the different content. 👍
Thanks 👍 for the support-headed down to Westech with a truck load of OTHER GUYS!
@@richardholdener1727 Yahoo! You must love your job!
The reason I ask is because I have seen on your video where y’all put a cam in there that was larger than 480 lift on Vortech heads and I was wondering if y’all had to machine the heads
YES
The true question is do the 062 heads or 906 heads flow better witch ones actually flow better or are they both equal
So... did I miss the cam upgrade on the Vortec sb? are those a factory roller cam engine? I'm thinking maybe a comp XE-262
I watched this test on the speed secrets video, but I just want to double check. These heads weren't machined to clear the cam lift, right? It was just the comp springs/retainers, etc that allowed the lift?
just needed the right springs
Yup common upgrade is comp 787 retainers & LS blue springs
Yes ls2 blue spring 787 comp retainers is the go to, but I wouldn't push it past .510 lift though
The other issues is press in studs.
Don't want to get to much open pressure or you may pull a stud after a while
@bolton93lt1 yes - did this on my 906's
It chaps my hide that the brand new iron bowties I have in a box under my bench, aren't as good as a pair of $50 junkyard vortecs.
Would have liked to see the L31 Vortec with a cam upgrade with the intake.
Fuel system only supports around 330hp
I meant with the carbed intake or even better the marine intake with real injectors.