High Efficiency HVAC Systems Worth The Extra Money??
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- -Fast-Stat HVAC Wiring Extender-
www.fast-stat.com
- SUPPORT THE CHANNEL -
www.patreon.co...
- Check out @TruTech Tools, LTD -
www.trutechtoo... (Use promo code “QUALITYHVAC” to save 8%)
- HVAC TACTICAL -
hvactactical.com/ (Use Promo Code "QUALITYHVAC" to save 10%)
- FOLLOW ME -
Instagram: @qualityhvacr
- BUSINESS INQUIRES -
qualityhvacrtn@gmail.com
- TOOLS I USE -
Fieldpiece SM380V Digital Manifold: www.trutechtoo...
Fieldpiece Job Link HVACR Charge & Air Kit: www.trutechtoo...
Solderweld Brazing Kit:
trutechtools.c...
Fieldpiece DR82 Leak Detector:
trutechtools.c...
hilmor lineset cleaning kit:
trutechtools.c...
RLS Refrigerant Press Tool Kit:
www.trutechtoo...
Veto Pro Pac MB5B Tool Bag:
trutechtools.c...
Supco Jumper King:
trutechtools.c...
Fieldpiece VP87 Vacuum Pump:
trutechtools.c...
Fieldpiece MR45 Recovery Machine:
trutechtools.c...
Fieldpiece Hose Kit:
trutechtools.c...
Fieldpiece SR47 Refrigerant Scale:
www.trutechtoo...
Fieldpiece SC480 Meter: www.trutechtoo...
Fieldpiece SC680 Meter: www.trutechtoo...
Supco Magnetic Umbrella: www.trutechtoo...
Supco Coolpressor:
trutechtools.c...
Supco Jumper King:
trutechtools.c...
#qualityhvacr #hvac #equipment
Nothing said about "cost of ownership" over 20 years.
The more complicated equipment has a higher failure rate and cost of repair over the life of the equipment.
Soooooo sorta kinda. Most of the time it’s due to improper installation and commissioning.
I tell customers the more computerized things it has in it, the more sensitive it is and the more failure points it has. When things go well, they're great. When things fail, and entropy always wins, they're more expensive to service because there's fewer universal parts.
One repair on super high efficiency equipment and there goes all ur savings u incurred till it breaks ,keep it simple and somewhat affordable, now if ur a millionaire and u can afford it then by all means. Not many techs out here that can even fix this high tech units
Agreed the ROI doesn't work out it will be long past the warranty before it will be realized compared to a 2 stage system.
Unlike a lot of “HVAC experts” on the internet, this channel actually gives good information
Built my home in 2013 with foam insulation in the walls and under the roof decking. A/c company installed two Carrier infinity units. Condenser fan ecm motors replaced approximately every two years at about 1k each. After about 6 years both air handlers had to be replaced at about 3k each. One air handler had to have a txv replaced twice. Part covered under warranty but had to pay the labor cost…around $500.00 each time. Compressor went out on the two ton unit and had to replace the condenser unit. Went with two stage and installed a dehumidifier. This was around 7k. The variable speed system/ comfort is great with the high efficiency only when it works. It’s my belief that it’s best to keep it simple and install a dehumidifier to control the humidity for comfort. As someone already mentioned, the original cost is not the only consideration but rather the cost of repairs/ maintenance. I will never go with a high efficiency unit and will never purchase another Carrier brand. I know someone will say something about proper installation. I read the manual with all of the specifications and had a second opinion and the installation was by the book. Simply put, the a/c units are not built well and do not last. I don’t think I could work in this industry and look the customer in the eyes knowing what junk is being built.
To your last sentence, it's a matter of perspective. We don't design and manufacture the junk so all we can do is give the customer the most honest information we can so they can choose what's best for them, not our sales. I hate selling, but I love helping. I try to teach customers about their whole building starting from the first maintenance call, long before system failure, and build real trust. Have you looked at windows or insulation? Have you looked at closing dampers seasonally? Running dehumidifiers? Keeping the furnace fan circulating air 24/7? I hate corporate motivational posters, but one stuck with me: "They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." I'm a homeowner too, and probably a cheaper bastard than anyone, so I get it. Help em, give a crap, and sleep well at night.
@@bikerbobcatAs stated in my original statement, the home has foam insulation and also double pane windows with argon gas. I’ve watched so many TH-cam videos regarding a/c systems and read hundreds if not thousands of comments and I will honestly say most are honest. However it pisses me off when I see some, not all, are basically salespeople trying to scam people into these high priced units just to make money knowing the cost of ownership is ridiculous. The a/c discipline is the only occupation that I am aware of that pretty much shuts out the general public from purchasing parts and equipment from brand name manufacturers. It’s a scam and they know it!!
They are most likely over sized. Blower motors shouldn’t go bad like that. High static pressure
@@samuelsech2278
3500 square feet of living space. 2 ton on one side controlling about 1500 square feet and 3 ton for the other side controlling the remaining 2,000 square feet. It’s my understanding that on a spray foam house, it’s one ton for approximately 1k square feet… does that sound right??
I work for one of the biggest outfits in eastern PA, perhaps one of the biggest in the tri-state area. We use all Lennox products and have for many years now. I can’t even begin to tell you how many variable speed motors and circuit boards and evaporator coils I’ve replaced under warranty. It’s was a lot. Now, Lennox has come a long way with their coils, they are now all aluminum and don’t leak as much and I’ve come to notice that their motors are getting slightly better. The good thing is, there are solutions. This equipment must be protected at all costs, surge protectors should be used wherever possible even though they are not full proof. When the high efficient stuff works it works well but we are not quite there yet as far as the durability
Retired home owner here, have done my own HVAC maintenance over the past decades.
I am always reading, watching videos to learn more. the VRF Inverter systems really intrigue my Guru mentality.
my situation is different than most, a 4 ton Rheem single stage, years old Cooling system, Natural Gas heat.
I installed a Honeywell WiFi controlled Thermostat many years ago because my Electric Utility gives me a discount when they need to turn OFF my Cooling system.
Love your channel, I learn a lot, my knowledge base is 1990s and older, you help me a lot.
Hello!
I work as an air conditioning installer in Hungary, Europe. We have been using this technology for a long time because of the lower energy consumption. They really consume much less energy because in most cases you don't need 100% operation, so it saves energy. I am very happy about your initiative to use less energy. Congratulations.
Super High efficiency systems cost more money to maintain than they save in energy.
Used to tell customers dont invest in high effecient equipment. Instead, upgrade widows doors and home insulation.Will save you more money and increase comfort level.
Agreed. It’s in the insulation and not necessarily the high efficiency unit.
That's another thing! That and zone dampers, even seasonal manual ones, where you're looking at the whole house, not just the 1 system. Good point.
Window upgrade estimate for my home was over $40k. Not much of a savings if you ask me. My home faces the west so from 2pm until sunset my house bakes in the sun. Maybe replacing the front windows would help (about $10K) but not all.
That’s because you’re an honest well rounded HVAC guy that isn’t blinded by money.
A lot of good information on sizing properly, de-humidification (it's amazing how much water is actually in the air), the Fast-Stat products, & VRF systems. These are all topics that I can bring up in my HVAC class as we go forward.
High efficiency systems are not what they should be. Let’s put it like this. Your new car has a smaller motor which is supposed to be GAS EFFICIENT, however they don’t last as long as the older cars because they were built to last 350 hP vs 175 HP now. The motors don’t last long and break down a lot. Equipment is not built to last now. We have a lot of issues with 16-20 seer units. Variable speed is ok but not worth it in my opinion. This is coming from a person that has been in the field for 20 plus years and who has HAD a variable speed system. Got rid of it for a 14.3 and I am better off with that. That’s proof in the pudding.
With their inflated cost some people will never recoup the price, then constant maintenance is needed adding to an extra cost, (very few do maintenance) IF it lasts past warranty period good luck on very expensive parts and availability. A lot more delicate parts to go wrong.
Had no idea about the other Faststat modules! I've used the "common maker" a few times, and a few times just couldn't get it to work, but the others are great. Thanks for that tip. An intermediate thing for efficiency is also just zoning dampers for the house and a thermostat with zone sensors. Yes there's a lot of "it depends" but even with multistage, you're still running the whole house system to just condition the 1 part of the house you're in. As for "too many bells and whistles" what is absolutely true is that computers are more sensitive. They're sensitive to power spikes, sensitive to line noise, adverse weather/bugs, sensitive to "internet bullcrap" (bad updates, misconfiguration with apps, hackers, etc) and sensitive to tech supply chains. I can get universal contactors, capacitors, maybe even motors, but only the manufacturer makes that 1 board. Doesn't make it bad, just something the customer needs to be aware of. The fancier it is, the more failure points it has. Good video.
Great points made. Yes properly sized equipment is the way to go but I'll go a bit further and say that undersized equipment is even better. ESPECIALLY if its variable speed. The only downside to high efficiency equiment is crappy installers and duct sizing. If your ductwork is questionable then fix it or dont geet something super high efficient. My Diakin Fit is great but even at 2.5Tons is oversized IMO. Also at 74* and 45% humidity I'm cold, so as long as the unit is running and its 75 inside then Im good.
It would seem that duct sizing when installing replacement units is a factor. Part of the equation that is probably overlooked by many.
Seeing a lot of carrier 38 mura heat pumps here in northern michigan. The rebates the customer gets for it are insane
Interesting video Zac, my Daikin 5.8Kw A/C R/C handles the summer and winter temperatures nicely where i live 100 kms south of Sydney 👍 Au
As with anything - the Simpler , the Better & Cheaper to Repair. Most of the Population Understand that & Want that.
You say Get on Board. i've Got No Problem Repairing Complicated Stuff. Been doing it for years. Computer controlled Cascade refrigeration systems since 1980 that interface with Main frame Computers at Hughes aircraft & the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
Flouro carbon Liquid based Thermal shock equipment.
The Average Homeowner does not Want to " PAY " those costs for A Computer controlled Highly Complex system. The More parts & Pieces. More things to go wrong.
Just Like A Car with 25 Circuit boards in it. it's Just not necessary.
Like they say - " Kiss " - Keep it Simple s****d.
Depends on what part of the country you live in too. You live in a climate that sees vary humid summers like the southeast. Then an air conditioner with an efficiency rating of 15 seer for a 3.5 ton unit, would be more worth the cost. A 4 ton unit you can go slightly lower.
Love your channel man I agree variable speed is awesome I have installed a lot of them and repaired some, truth is dc variable is the future but as of today as a Pipefitter /hvac tech I replaced my system and went single speed cause of the price point savings vs energy returns, variable was over double over my wholesale cost on single stage condenser, next if variable breaks 9 out of 10 times you will be on the phone with manufacturer tech support to troubleshoot the inverter boards and sensors ,after that the part will not be in stock locally and will have to be shipped in from manufacturer. This is why I went single I have parts on hand or they are on the shelve locally and I can fix them Saturday or Sunday cause tech support is not open for variable on weekends. Once they become more prevalent and parts are on the shelve and there are more classes on troubleshooting and repair then hands down best way to go. Just hate to have a customer down for a week waiting for a part and tech support to call back when it’s 100 in August .
Haven’t needed the electric heat yet on a GE Connect variable speed system here in PA in he two years I’ve had it. The GE Connect works well, but had some issues with some of the components at initial install. Unfortunately it was installed as a retrofit to an existing system, and the installer did not verify ducting and sizing, so mine uses an incredible amount of electric in the winter and doesn’t do a great job of dehumidifying in the summer, despite putting it in the lower capacity mode and slowing the air down.
I have had a lot of complaints about vs air handler noise level when aux heat energizes. Variable speed blower motors increase RPM with an increase in external static pressure across the blower. These new high-efficiency systems with their huge indoor coils do not pull the humidity out like the old inefficient systems did. In humid climates, like you said, you need a dehumidifier too. I will never put a unit on a bedroom wall using a bracket.
A more efficient variable system ,if sized properly, will run longer cycles when cooling than single stage systems and will dehumidify better. A larger indoor coil will also remove more moisture. One tip is in cooling mode make sure the fan is set to AUTO otherwise the fan will keep running and blow moisture from coils back into air.
Great presentation!
If you don’t mind waiting for parts and love your hvac guy. Buy the fancy.
My AC would run 24/7 if I set my thermostat at 72. My systems are about 10 years old and getting time to replace with something more efficient. My two story Florida house isn't that tight and doesn't have very efficient windows. This is good info for considering my next heat pump.
Do not go up in efficiency, that will not address your problem at all. Might just need to confirm unit is sized correctly or address some home insulation issues
@@MrSwaggerLlama Thanks! I have ample insulation in the attic...probably more than enough. Can't say what's in my walls...probably bare minimum from 1999 standards. My upstairs return is probably undersized and was thinking of adding louvre doors to get more return air. I've had several HVAC techs tell me that would improve upstairs cooling but no calculations to confirm.
to start - Best thing to do to save money on electric bills is:
1) change air filter / install a Clean air filter.
2) Clean Condenser
3) Clean Evaporator
4) Make sure unit is Full of Refrigerant.
Do this every year right before the heat starts. Best way to save money during summer heat.
@@OcRefrig I do all of that including checking some electrical components. I don't have gauges to check refrigerant but I had it checked recently and all OK. Clean out condensate lines too!
Good video Zack
Id argue that noise level is a form of comfort though
Agreeing with the comments below, a lot of times these higher efficiency units they're producing today have components in them that are not time tested and develop problems the company engineers have not encountered yet. Case in point, I have a Carrier Infinity system. Recently the chief tech for the local company installed the latest and greatest thermostat that is also Wi-Fi capable. When we turned on the Wi-Fi it would reboot itself at least a couple times a day shutting the system down as it was rebooting. The Carrier engineers had not encountered that yet according to what I was told. Since I am retired, I don't really need Wi-Fi control, so I turned it off and the system works just fine. Also, when we were talking the tech told me that t/stat alone costs $900. plus $300. labor to install it and program it. Fortunately, mine is still under warranty but I commented when he said that "Good G..". How are ordinary folks supposed to be able to afford these things? There went that year of "high efficiency" savings down the drain with one little T/stat change.
Zac you know your stuff very good information I actually wanted to move to Tennessee and learn hvac I’m actually in the process of getting into the trade I’m a maintenance technician
His videos will help you understand the concepts being taught in an HVAC course - I am in one now & I can bring up the topics that he gets into in his videos.
Interesting ,Thanks for video
@QualityHVACRR OOO , that a surprise 😀
Great info. Love your videos
Spot on my friend!
Nice video and great explanation. I have a daikin vrv with refnet for multiple indoor units I like it but I have a few problems, some of the ev coils does not shut off when it reaches the temp set and it keeps running a whole time sometimes it’s with 3-4 degrees lower then set point and becomes freezing til I just press the bottom with one set point higher. It’s daikin life VRV
better to get a basic unit thats installed very well...people dont care about all the bells and whistles and tbh if its a basic unit i have everything on my work truck to get someone cooling instead of ordering parts because its high end and cant easily get parts.
Keep healthy mr zack
In agreement. It’s been here and here to stay.
In my area this technology is needed to meet energy requirements and credits for securing a building permit.
So, as a builder, accept it, learn it and understand it to better inform clients in their decision making.
Solid points
This video helped me to understand a little more hvac systems. I'm in the process of designing a new addition to our home. We will add a hybrid HVAC to replace an old one. What closet size do you recommend to run an indoor unit? I live in KY, should I go with an electric furnace or a gas?
Good afternoon Zach! I am looking to install a mini-split in my home. I noticed I can find different voltage in the same BTU rated units. For instance, a 9,000BTU I can get in 110v or 220v. My question is what is the pros and cons of getting 220 over 110? Is it more efficient? Last longer? Or……….? Thank you for your vids bud, they have been very helpful and interesting!
Comfort is king. I'm jealous of the 24/7 circulating setups. If only we had god mode. Whisper quiet, zero dollars to run. Lets call it the invisible blanket system.
Very interesting talk. Sizing for the hottest or coldest day sounds logical. The idea of having only full throttle for either cold or heat is very in-efficient. I didn't realize my condensing furnace was two stage and a multi speed blower. I'm throwing it away after 15 years. Goodman, it's been good with no problems. I'll swap it out for another 2 stage aciq. But my AC has got to go, low on R22 and noisy as a 1980's pontiac with a holy exhaust. Its dB rating is 82 or so. I'm going with aciq hyper heat inverter. The big decision for only $200 difference is the hyper heat version.
The non hyper heat ones stop producing heat at 5 deg. Capacity starts to drop at 20 deg. The hyper heat at -22 drop to 72%. Then again any of these numbers are theoretical. Even if real, definitely not your exact location. Altitude, moisture in the air etc all do something.
I think all systems at a minimum should have 2 stages. 2 fan speed and a few temp readings. An inverter is a decent way to do it. If only the parts start coming down. They will as these things are going into everything. But hearing carrier infinity woes and cost of parts is not good. A variable valve, either furnace gas or refrigerant is a liability. Just fire some solenoids.
A few speeds on a air handler would be nice. Thermostats need to get a bit more advance or user friendly for the flexibility. What would you suggest. I have a T9 honeywell and it seems ok. I'm not sure how well it'll work out for this setup.
My super basic 1 stage cooling and gas furnace house system fan runs 24/7. I went to the thermostat, switched the fan from AUTO to ON and haven't touched it in 12 years.
@@bikerbobcat well played, i hope my new system is quieter, the one now is too noisy to run all the time.
@scoobtoober2975 It's good to see someone else considering the same system I am on the fence with. 35 year Heil 3 ton straight cool system. I have had not one issue with it and now looking at the ACiQ 3 ton 18 SEER mini split inverter system. Warranty: 12-Year Compressor & 7-Year Parts - with online registration which is attractive. I know the ACiQ would be more efficient to run, but as most have stated failure rate may out weigh the efficiency. I also have solar so high efficiency should not even be a concern but my current CU and AHU is a bit loud when running. I like the specs on ACiQ high efficiency but I can't seem to find too many elaborate videos or discussions. What was your motivation for the ACiQ system?
@@ilandsun quiet was the main reason and old system was icing up inside. r22 is expensive. As a diy i'm pretty sure you don't get any warranty. You need to summon a local pro that will go along with it to register it. But maybe call them and see what they say.
@@scoobtoober2975 thanks for the response. Yes, that's the other dilemma as well. Most pros want you to get their equipment. I believe MRCOOL installs them since they are basically the similar product.
Most homeowners who need replacement equipment are looking at cost. They will usually go with the cheapest option.
I really like your channel and think you are a really good tech, but I’m going to have to disagree with you on your high efficiency recommendation. Like how others have commented, you are going to cancel out what you save on your bill, by how many repairs you are going to on your high efficiency system. I see this same situation in appliances as well, how efficient is it, if you are replacing more frequently than ever before. The old systems and appliances use to last 20 years or more, now that’s high efficiency. This is my opinion, but I still like your channel, even though we disagree.
It probably depends on the manufacturer. Some use more quality/reliable parts, similar to auto manufacturers.
After all is being said and reading the comments I am of the opinion that less is best. Sure it may run more to operate with the cost of electricity but when you figure the cost of electricity, the equipment cost, installation cost...and the costs that come later, maintenance and repair, only then will you get a true representation of what it cost to operate these units compared to the basic one speed, low SEER units. I am faced now with replacing a bare bones unit that has been in operation for 27 years. Still working but I am faced with a failure at any moment...or who knows it may run for another 5 years or more. I am seriously considering going with the inverter controlled WINDOW units such as the U Shaped Madea that are reasonable in price and efficient. If it breaks simply buy a new one, definitely less expensive than a service call for my central unit. I'll buy 5 and for less than $2,500 my whole house will be covered and if one goes out I am not out of air. Just a thought!
I would wait till late in the cooling season to buy the window units. I got mine at half off at the end of august.
Mr. Zac I watched the shorts on this GE AC few hours ago, I wanted to know what is that big cylinder in front of the rotary compressor? Receiver? or another rotary compressor?
@@Damn-Son Ok, But a rotary compressor already has an accumulator attached to it right?
Completely disagree. If a customer wants high efficiency I’ll sell it to them, but generally I recommend 16 SEER system. 2 stage if they want more efficiency. High efficiency equipment has 7 plus sensors that are prone to breaking and completely shut down a system. Their fans, boards, T stats and all their parts are significantly more expensive. If you do an honest cost comparison between the 2 types of systems, the extra money you save on energy isn’t worth the sacrifice to reliability.
I understand the big HVAC industry is getting its market cornered and with the help of the EPA they will soon have complete control, but until only inverter systems are the only available, I won’t recommend them to customers. (With the exception of ductless mini splits)
I never recommend to my customers very high-end equipment because in long run it cost way more to fix it and maintain, in the end that unit will cost them more money than single or two stage equipment
Insightful
HI,
I think this guy got everything wrong. ECM motor or X-13 motors can push some air pretty well VS PSC motors are normally starting to slow down as they cant push air more. Has anyone ever tried to close a door on air handler with ECM motor on the system that has undersized ductwork??? That blower motor turns into a jet engine!
My experience has been that it is not worth the extra money unless it is variable speed. I would sit at the table with a customer and work it out with a breakdown within the first 5 years, the least expensive standard equip. and variable speed win out.
If you had it your way how far away from the building would you have the condenser. inverter or not
demanding no electric heat until 10* would make a heat pump live in defrost mode when outside temp is below 32*
12:30 holy sales pitch… How much percentage they giving you? FFS
I've used the "common maker" fast stat before but never heard of the other ones. That's useful information when changing up systems because pulling new lines just for that 1 more wire is an added cost that might break a deal.
Nice 😮
thats a gree flex
High efficiency means it done last long. I’ve found with anything.
Toyota Prius
Don't last long
Before we even get started, the answer is NO.
Not worth it. Better to make your home more energy efficient
👍🏿
They all cool
The same. The only difference is how much electricity they use. There is no return on investment unless the home is 2500 sq ft or larger