Im Hispanic but none of my family has the second surname. We probably either threw it out or got very integrated into American culture. Btw much love from Florida
people introduce themselves with a short nickname, and you generally have no idea what their full name is unless you are searching through their id papers.
The double surname system makes genealogy SOO much easier bc every generation has their own last names. Everyone is not bundled up under a single surname. It is easier to identify family and ancestors.
in portuguese we do something similar, but the surname order is the other way around GivenName1+(GivenName2+)Mom'sSurname+Dad'sSurname and people are usually known by GivenName1+Dad'sSurname. but many people are also known as GivenName2+Dad'sSurname, especially women that are called Maria+Something+MS+DS, they usually go as Something+DS. but this second scenario also occurs with other people, not only Marias.
and the filling of english-based forms is also annoying for us. portuguese also allows for compound surnames, in which each surname is made up of several words, connected with 'de' (of) or 'e' (and), but that are a single surname and often mis-cited as well.
The name Maria has a bit of a special status in Germany, too. Despite it is a female name, some men have the name Maria as their second given name. Examples for that are "Rainer Maria Rilke" (1875-1926) and "Markus Maria Profitlich" (1960-).
@@HalfEye79 The same in Portuguese. José Maria is a old-fashionable name that was pretty popular in Brazil. It has to do with devotion to the Virgin Mary, of course.
@@aesculetum i was going to comment this as well but with men, i feel it is more commonly associated with the more posh-ish folk (what we would call betos). that might just be a stereotype, though
I didn't know that was her full name. Nice to know! I assume Rojas would be her father's surname. Yes, it follows the conventions and, because in the story (and in the village) there is so much emphasis in the family Madrigal, for me, it does make sense that everyone goes by Madrigal. I say that as a Brazilian who grew up in a little city where one side of my family, my mother's, was more known. My grandfather was mayor of city at some point and my mother is health secretary (she knows a lot of people there) so, I always went by my mother's surname. Worth noting: Brazilian naming conventions are a bit different than what is explained in the video, but having both parents' surnames is something we have in common.
They probably all go by Madrigal because it is the common surname for the extended family. For example if you were referring to my paternal family, including uncles and grandparents you’d call us the Mestre but that would change if you talked about the maternal family
Lots of nicknames in Spanish are abbreviations of the two names (such as Juan José= Juanjo, Juan Carlos= Juanca), but the one I find fun is "Ignacio"'s nickname which is Nacho!
in mexico, jose maria is also "chema", although in the philippines it would be "jomari" or "joma". also, is it spanish or mexican to nickname every jose "pepe"? or is it a filipinism?
Alternatively, we adopt the Icelandic naming system so that nobody has a similar name. If you want a gender-neutral variant to "Son" or "dotter" then I propose we just had "kid". So the gender neutral variant of Erik's kid is literally "Erikskid". It's chaotic, but I think it would be funny
@@pennyforyourthots Omg, I love the idea of -kid endings! 😂 Felixkid, Oleskid, Matthewskid, Patrickskid, Finnskid - actually sound like proper surnames! You could even do the mothers name - Maiaskid, Oliviaskid, Ivyskid, Lillianskid, Emmaskid, still sound good!
@@pennyforyourthots It would be Erikschild... but that is not a surname at all... the kid would just be a child of Erik. Now Rannveig (Jónsdóttir) was the mother of Vilborg and Una (Jónsdætra)... as the father of Rannveig was named Jón (Bjarnason) and the husband (childsfather) of Rannveig was also named Jón (Höskuldsson). Jón was and is the most common name for males...
That's the traditional portuguese royal family naming style, as shown by emperor Peter II de Alcântara João Carlos Leopoldo Salvador Bibiano Francisco Xavier de Paula Leocádio Miguel Gabriel Rafael Gonzaga 😂 Some brazilian families still give all the grandpa's names for their children, wich quickly becomes a mess as you might imagine
Thats not the Spanish system lol, I do want to use the Spanish system now tho, especially after people like Pat think it should be done away with becuz "equality everyone 🥰" 🙄
As a Scot who has lived in Spain, I spent twenty years having to answer "yes only one surname" and filling in forms with primer apellido and segundo apellido was not fun especially when electronically. ERROR. Don't get me started on how repetitive M de Madrid and C de Cataluña when spelling the Mc part of my name was, often rendered as Mo... on some forms in sheer disbelief. But hey, if we all had the same culture life would be boring. Viva los McEspañoles
When I lived in Spain I just put my mother’s maiden name on forms, even though my legal name in the US does not include it. But her maiden name is listed on my birth certificate so it’s legal and valid to use it in Spain. Voilà problem solved!
When I got married to my wife, who is from Mexico, I was actually required to sign my name using the Spanish naming system for our Mexican marriage certificate. Being an American with German/English names, it was a combination and order I had never needed to sign official documentation with. Since then, I have adopted writing out my name with my mother's maiden name at the end in certain situations, just to avoid to confusion of being called 'Señor John'.
i´ve allways wanted to understand how in earth and also why my stepmother´s surname (1st apellido) is John, and now i know Also quick fyi, in not so formal context it is correct for we spanish natives to say señor + given name
@@diegoeliasindriago7991 Yep, having international family can make a lot of everyday things very interesting! I've used señor/señora + given name informally in Mexico. The reason I found Señor John confusing is because I normally don't go by my middle name, and a lot of offices would see my I.D., and then use my middle name as my last name. My wife has had similar issues in the U.S. where they've assumed her apellido paterno was a middle name, and therefore call her by her mother's last name.
I find this a bit odd. Although an extreme minority, there are Mexicans with only one last name. This is the case of children whose paternity is unknown. Most of the time the get their mother’s last names; but there are these rare occasions when the child only gets one maternal last-name.
But you are Señor John, in Spanish titles can come before given names, not necessarily after surnames. For example I can be, Señor Raymundo or Señor Lozano
The way Encanto's naming convention was explained to me is that all the members are called either Madrigal or de Madrigal, due to the prominence of the family. So Agustín's last name is still Rojas, and thus his daughters' last name is Rojas Madrigal (Mirabel's full name, btw, is Mirabel Valentina Rojas Madrigal). But in the context of the family he married into, he's known as Agustín Rojas de Madrigal. Likewise, Dolores and Mariano's kids will be known as [Kid's Name] Guzmán [Dolores' Paternal Name] de Madrigal. Say they name a kid Pedro. He'd be Pedro Guzmán Castillo de Madrigal (I'm using Félix's VA's name as a placeholder, since we don't know his last name). The Rivera family in Coco uses the same conventions. Rivera is the name of their business, and everyone in the family is part of that business, so they are all known at least as de Rivera. Basically, Miguel's name is Miguel [Father's Name] [Mother's Name] de Rivera. In school, Rivera wouldn't be part of his name at all. However, we the audience don't know the surnames of the men who married into the family (Julio and Franco), so Rivera is the only name we are able to call them by.
it makes some sense because in american and british media we sometimes see that if a man marries into a very important family and gets brought into the family, instead of the daughter being "removed" from the family to start her married life, the husband will take the wive's family name because it's an important(and sometimes powerful) family name
Eh, not exactly. Let us take Agustín from encanto: he is Agustín Rojas. No more, no less. He is recognized as a member of the Madrigal family, but he neither takes their name not would he be known as "de Madrigal". Mirabel is Mirabel Rojas Madrigal, still a Madrigal, but for all legal intents and purposes she would be called Mirabel Rojas. The kids of Dolores and Mariano would be KidName Guzman (from Mariano) Madrigal (from Dolores). Not "de Madrigal", just Madrigal. If Bruno would have married, due to time customs and uses, his wife would be known as Name Lastname de Madrigal. In those times women were seen as property of the man, so she would take the "de Lastname" as her name. The "de" indicates property in Spanish. Thus, we could think that Julieta is known as Julieta Madrigal de Rojas, and Pepa is Josefa Madrigal de (Félix's last name). The grandma would be known as Alma Viuda de Madrigal, as she is a widow and we can assume Pedro's last name is Madrigal. Nowadays no one changes their last names like that, women are their own and keep their identity regardless of civil status.
makes a lot of sense. so it's more or less the same in our country, that the kids' surname/s follow the form of their mother's (julieta's), who, though in documents may be using her husband's family name "rojas", has kept her maiden surname "madrigal" according to hispanic convention. if she had been filipino, she would've been registered as JULIETA MADRIGAL de ROJAS after marriage, and mirabel's birth certificate would say, MIRABEL ROJAS y MADRIGAL. the name "madrigal", whether illustrious or not, would always be there... but alas, would not be inherited by mirabel's own children.
I didn't know this but it works specially with the "de" + spouse's last name which was pretty used in here,( but not for the kids as far as I am concerned, the kid wouldn't be called "de Madrigal" that sounds weird in a kid) , in the 20th century and since Encanto is supposed to take place in the 50s. It was a rather sexist practice basically being reffered to as "of" a certain family like that it was usually done only through marriage adding the "de".
The thing I like the most of Spanish names convention is that there are less people named the same compared to other Spanish names, in comparison to English names, because of the two surnames giving a bit of possibilities for different combinations, specially with compound names. I'm Mexican and my parents have very very rare surnames, so I am very sure that nobody else is called like me and maybe there never will be.
The Spanish naming convention has influenced the Filipino naming tradition. Combined with the influence of American naming tradition, Our middle names became our mother's maiden name (as opposed to Second given name)
I’m Spanish, my fiancée is American and I asked her to not change her name after marriage. My surname is reserved only for people that were raised in our family.
I'm from Argentina and here it normally works like in the US, two names and your father's surname (like you can see in my name), which is the opposite of Spain because they mostly have only one name and two surnames (1st one is father's one and 2nd one is mother's one). However, in the rest of the hispanic countries it works like you said with two names and two surnames, with people with names like Gonzalo José Rodríguez Rodríguez, it's not quite usual but it can happen with very common surnames. I disagree when you said we do not have middle names when we actually do. In spanish we've got the concepts of Nombre (Name) and Segundo nombre (Middle or seccond name) like you can see in my name, Diego is my name and Matías is my middle name. However, there's something called "Composed names" (Nombres compuestos in spanish) which are names made by a comination of two names. You can normally see this with names like Juan or María, those names are normally accompanied by another one, so if you ask What's your name? He or she is going to tell you Juan Pablo, Juan Cruz, María de los Ángeles, María del Carmen, José Luis, Miguel Ángel, etc. Those are very common composed names in spanish, but if you ask me or any other guy who don't have a composed name but two names, he or she is NOT going to answer: My name is Diego Matías, Pablo Jesús, Ana Celeste, etc, we're just going to tell you our 1st name (Unless he/she doesn't like it and prefer to use his/her second name). Hope this comment works to understand it better. PS: You can even have three or four names, I know people who do (of course cases are just a few).
I really like hearing about how naming conventions are done in other parts of the world. It's always interesting to know how this works and I really like it. I think everyone should proud of their heritage and not care how much of a headache it might create on filling out forms. We should make forms fit people, not the other way around.
Oke, something I have interesting experiences with: My parents are from china and they immigrated to Spain. Traditionally chinese names follow the father surname + given name which is very incompatible with spanish naming conventions, the thing is that if you get spanish citizenship then you HAVE to have a second surname (or at least is what they told me). So when my mother got spanish citizenship she just have to chose something. My name as it’s just my father’s surname and a given name (王宇 Wang Yu) so I just added my mothers surname (伍 Wu) so my name now is Yu Wang Wu in spanish but then it creates the problem of what it is in chinese then. The other case I know is from my Algebra professor. He actually has a rant in his personal website about how they made him change his name and the problem with signing his research papers. One funny thing is that sometimes I have problems because of my name (people just don’t know how to spell it but i guess that is normal), sometimes it’s too short for some things, to this day I can’t make a Papa Jonhs account bc my name is shorter than 3 letters smh.
I have derived moments of amusement from observing how some sport scoring display systems do not gracefully handle the Spanish naming conventions. In particular, I remember a gymnastics competition held in a European country where French team member Melanie de Jesus dos Santos’s name (born in Martinique, hence the French citizenship with an Hispanic sounding name) was ultimately displayed as MDJDS because they could not figure out any way to enter her name for the desired display.
As someone in the IT field it's quite annoying to me how Anglo/U.S.-centric on-line sign ups are. It also affects street addresses, meaning there's times people need to know their county or equivalent because the form was created with U.S. states in mind.
Hay personas que tienen hasta tres nombres, así podés decidir por cuál de todos querés que te llamen, la dinámica es interesante por ejemplo cuando te llaman solo tu primer nombre y tu primer apellido se siente distinto a cuando te llaman por los dos nombres y dos apellidos, suena más serio y elegante
Traditionally married women in Spanish cultures do change their names. They are supposed to drop the maternal surname and add their husbands surname after the article de (of). This tradition is practically dead but it is the tradition
This is very much correct. My mom did this exact thing and it’s very difficult when handling documents in the US since these are not very compatible with articles, at least in our experience.
That was the textbook description (literally) when I studied Spanish as a teenager back in the early 1960s. I think the textbook writers were consolidating the practices of the majority of Spanish speaking countries in the Americas. Since I was living in Miami, FL during those years, there were plenty of people around me who could serve as examples, most of them from Cuba.
In Brasil 🇧🇷 the naming custom is similar, but there are many Japanese Brazilian families who have been here for generations but still keep only one surname
So I’m Italian born and raised but my mother is Cuban (so she has all the latin customs, including the surname one). When my mom married my father in the late 90’s she refused to take my fathers surname, saying “I already have a surname I do not need yours”. And when I was born she wanted to give me her surname but at that time Italy did not allow it yet.
@@Venezolano410 did you read the story? I know that Italians only carried their father’s surname and that I said, that is what I have. But in 2022 the sentence 131 the Corte Costituzionale declared that automatically giving your child the fathers surname was unconstitutional and that is why now you can give your child the mothers and the fathers surname.
I also like the naming conventions of the Romans: Given name + Family name + Byname (sort of nickname) My example is the name "Gaius Julius Caesar", who was from the family of the "Julier". When I remember correctly, the women only get the "femalized" version of the family name. So a sister or a daughter of Gaius Julius Caesar would be just Julia.
And then there were the emperors who half the time just added "Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus" to the start of their name upon becoming emperor, Just because.
I always wondered why Octavian's sister was Octavia. It must not be the personalized name we were referring to them by. Guess it doesn't much matter for Octavian anyways because he inherited the name of Gaius Julius Caesar :p Fun fact, that's WHY late Roman emperors added Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus to their names. Octavian (later known as Augustus) inherited Caesars wealth and his name from his will, after his assassination by members of the Senate in 44 BC.
I knew a man who was the child of a Czech woman and a Cuban man. He was born in Cuba. Czech woman's names are the feminine forms different from the masculine form usually ending in "-ova". Since the Cuban authorities insisted on giving him the name on her passport regardless of her explaining the grammar, his last name was something like Martinez Novakova. Which is quite confusing in Czech.
I know people with dual citizenship which have one official name in their home country and their official name in the second citizenship country. Meaning they follow whichever convention of the language or culture of each country.
@@PrezVeto I don't agree for the most part. As long as one's name isn't too different in one of the two or however many countries one has citizenship in I think that's alright, but if someone wants a completely different name in one than the other, I'd think that's some form of fraud.
@@sion8 We're not talking about a completely different name. We're talking about writing John Smith in the U.S., Smith John in China, and John Smith Jones in Spain.
A further tradition in aristocratic families (now somewhat antiquated) was to conjoin the two surnames with "y" ("and"), e.g., Juan García y López. In cases where the maternal surname began with "I," "Hi," or "Y," the surnames were conjoined with "e" (also meaning "and") instead, e.g., Tomás Alba e Ybarra.
@@diegoeliasindriago7991 Sort of. It was not uncommon at one time for British aristocrats to use double surnames (with or without the hyphen) to preserve a surname that would otherwise have gone extinct due to a lack of male descendants. So the reason for the hyphen was not quite the same as the Spanish 'y' or 'e.' Today, some non-arisocratic couples choose to give their children a double last name (with or without the hyphen). Sometimes, a married woman will use the hyphen to concatenate her maiden name and her husband's surname, e.g., Mary Smith becomes Mary Smith-Jones when she marries. In some cases, both members of a couple take the double surname, so that Mary Smith and Tom Jones become Mary Smith-Jones and Tom Smith-Jones when they marry. This is relatively rare, however. Also, people have just invented hyphenated names for themselves. So, it is rash to make assumptions about the origin of a double surname in English-speaking cultures.
The Portuguese/Brazilian system is similar to the one described here. I married a Brazilian and we both kept our names the same. Any children also take one last name from each parent, though it seems like parents choose which ones they prefer to pass on, rather than focusing on passing on patrilineal names.
Not true. I'm Brazilian and the Portuguese convention is Given name - Mother's maiden name - Father's last name. Essentially the opposite from Spanish. Some families chose to give their children their father's middle name as well but it is not common. Some people also have a composite name.
Whenever Americans call other naming traditions sexist, I always cringe. We forget that just a few generations ago, American women's names were, in official address at least, subsumed by their husband's names, so that if the husband's name was Mr. John Smith, his wife would be officially adressed as Mrs. John Smith.
I'm from Spain and I would like to point out up until very recently in the dictatorship of franco very usually had traditional catholic names which followed this pattern (Given name)+(Parent or grandparent name)+Name of the saint of the day you were born+Father surname+Mother surname. This was, however, merely ceremonial and was rarely used outside the baptism papers and church documents.
Interesting. Here in the Philippines, many people have Spanish names too, due to our colonial past, but the naming convention is very different. Very cool to know how other countries do names!
Almost the same. Informally you can be without your middle name. Example Juan Cruz if with second given name Juan Carlo Cruz. Then with middle name usually mothers maiden surname Juan Carlo Garcia Cruz. Some legal documents writes it as Juan Carlo Cruz y Garcia.
@@seejayep4258 Plus the middle name (mother's maiden surname) is often shortened to just a middle initial, then men who are named after their father, grandfather etc will have Jr. or III etc at the end
I'm Spanish, and although it is not legally used, we traditionally count the rest of our ascendants surnames as consecutive surnames. So your 1st surname is the 1st of your father, your 2nd is the 1st of your mother, and then your 3rd is the 2nd of your father, your 4th is the 2nd of your mother, your 5th is the 2nd of your paternal grandad, your 6th is the 2nd of your maternal grandad, and so on.
Strangely when my mom got married, and adopted my father's last name Greenberg, she dropped her middle name Linn and replaced it with her mother's maiden name Gilmore. She originally used it as her last name since she never knew her father. However my grandma, dispite never seeing my mom's father in decades, still uses his last name Dabney.
This convention of a woman switching her maiden name into a middle name was frequent in the US well into the 20th Century and even being used that way in official documents and phone books without asking the woman her preference.
Here in Argentina is not very common to have two surnames, we usually just have our father's surname. The law allows the parents to choose what surname they want for their children, they can have the father's only, mother's only, or both in any order, but all child's from the same couple have to have the same surnames.
2:50 Ironically, even though the video was focused more on Spain I think it applies more to Latam. I think the formula of 2 given names you mentioned is more common now in Latin America than in Spain itself, I come from Venezuela where most people have two given names but I've been living in Spain for a few months now and one thing that surprised me is that almost no one has a second given name, at least among young people. It's seen as an old timey thing.
yeah, now if anything young people have 'nombres compuestos' (I'm María del Carmen for example), but i feel like in the south, 2 given names is pretty common, as I know a lot of people who have 2 given names (Manuel Martín, Juan Pablo, Ana María, etc)
Coming from a culture where we have only ONE given name ( no surnames/family names at all), this is something new. All of us have to split our given names in half when filling out international-related documents. I wonder whether I'll have to split my given name again, or get to choose new surnames if I decide to settle in Spain.
I'm from Puerto Rico, and my mom originally didn't change her name to match my dad's but then we moved to rural NY, and she got so sick and tired of daycare employees, doctors, the school office, etc. always questioning her about whether she had authority to pick me up, what our relationship was, etc. because they couldn't understand that she was my mom when we had different last names (even though i carry both last names, and they are hyphenated because if not, they always leave out one of them). In the end she did change her name just to stop people from accusing her of trying to take me away or something
I was just thinking about this today. Another subject I would like to learn about is the origin of Spanish nicknames. How did Jose become Pepe and Jesus become Chuy?
The Pepe explanation is because on calendars, 19th of March, Saint Joseph's day, always came with the letters "p.p." underneath. That means "padre putativo" (father only by name of Jesus) and the letter p is pronounced Pe in Spanish. Almost same story with calling our Francisco's "Paco", because underneath his name it said "PAter COmunitas" as he was the creator of the Franciscan community.
@@pottertheavenger1363 Where are you from? My name is Eduardo as well and most of the time they shortened my name to Eddy, Ed, Edo and special case: Wardo.😅
Thanks for talking about this, I always get frustated when someone tries to call an spanish-speaking family only by the dads surname when all surnames are inportant in ur culture
Part of the issue with Spanish format names on forms is lazy programmers, or ignorant writers. General Lopez Santa Anna tends to get called Santa Anna in US history books. Mostly, in the US, the full Spanish format is mostly used by politicians, like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, who was known as Sandy Ocaisio in High School. The other reason to use the Spanish format is the lack of different surnames. Most people in the US know a Jose or Joe Gomez.
in portugal and spain it's so common for people to have the super common names like jose, joão, maria, ana, that if we went around only having one name, it'd be a fucking mess. like, i remember in school, every year, there was at least 4 girls named ana in the class. the way we distinguished them was often by calling them by their second name. and even as an adult, if at work there's people with the same name, one of them is either getting a nickname or getting called by their second name, to avoid confusions
The 2 names format limits the amount of variablity and creates millions of people with the same name, with 3 or 4 names your name can become a unique identifier.
Naming in portuguese is fairly similar. But the paternal surname is the last. My name has even a special quirk because my father opted to give me his two surnames, instead of just his paternal surname. So I ended up with three surnames. I recently moved to Australia and everywhere my "last name" is this enormous sentence.
Tbf it should be "Iberian naming conventions" rather than "Spanish", given that both are fairly similar. Father/mother order switches, but with that law change in Spain that's pretty much trivial. Sucks to see Portugal always forgotten behind Spain!
In the Philippines, Idk why we don't follow the Spanish naming convention despite being a former Spanish Colony. And we don't also use the American system of Middle Names (which is basically just a Given Name 2). Here, when we refer to Middle Name, we mean our Mother's Surname. The naming system here is: Given Name (Could be more than one) + Mother Surname (Omitted to initial) + Father Surname But police mug shots have retained the Spanish system, but with the addition of "y" for example: Given Name + Father Surname y Mother Surname
Bonus fact: Spanish Given Names here are getting out of fashion, and mostly old people have it. Anglo and other Western European names are now the fad for naming newborn children
In argentina we use a given names a second name and one surname, now you can choose which surname you want to use. I think anglos must to understand that we are not all the same.
The world generally just isn't ready for different nations using different naming conventions: patronymics, no surnames at all, prefixes, name-surname order, gendered surnames, capitalization, and as you mentioned: ways of inheriting surnames and hyphen vs. space. Speaking from personal experience with a few of those.
Greetings from Spain!! Great video!! I think the fun part about our naming system is how we can trace back the surnames of our ancestors. I personally know 8 of my family names in order, just from knowing my grandparents'. And in some places that is even used to convey some kind of "heritage pride". For example, in the Basque Country, it's said that in order to be a "true Basque" you must have at least 8 family names of Basque origin. This is usually just played as a joke (anyone who feels Basque can claim it and people will happily accept it regardless of their last names). But it's such a common saying that it even inspired a comedy film named "Ocho Apellidos Vascos" (8 Basque Last Names) 😂
In portuguese the tradition is basically the same, the only difference being that it is tradition for the father's surname to come in last, instead of the mother's
In Puerto Rico traditionally name order is given name + middle name + father’s paternal last name + mother’s paternal last name. If a women marries a man she adds de (of) + husband’s paternal last name. I was born in NY, my parents opted just to give me my father’s last name and I kept it after marriage, mostly because my husband’s German last name just doesn’t fit the rest of my names. I think if we have children I want to give them both our surnames, neither our last names are pronounceable by average English speaker lol
Fellow Puerto Rican here and I would like to mention that even though adding “de (insert husband’s paternal last name)” to a woman’s name after marrying was a pretty common tradition back in the day, it has mostly died off, with the baby boomers being the last generation to prominently do this. These days when Puerto Rican women marry they just leave their name as is
13:18 There are lots of people in Spain who have only 1 surname and they usually don't have problems. For example, there's a huuuuuge amount of Chinese immigrants who have only 1 surname and have no problem :)
When it comes to what surname we use it's usually the rarest or the more prominent one. An example would be Mirabel from the movie Encanto, she uses the Madrigal surname (her mother's) because it is the most prominent family.
There's also given names and surnames that are more that one word long. For example my mom is called María del Rosario (often Abbreviated as Ma. del Rosario in official documents). Being Rosario the equivalent to a "Main name" and "Maria del" an appendix. For surnames, some examples would be "Cabeza de Vaca" , "Del Valle" or "De la O" to name a few. Meaning that, Hypothetically, you can have 9 words in your full name and that would be perfectly normal, an example would be "Maria del Rosario Cabeza de Vaca de la O". But sincerely, I prefer this complexity much more than just two short -sometimes meaningless- names.
I'm an American living in Spain. On official forms I have a "nombre compuesto" (compound name) because there's no option for a middle name. I also have to leave a blank when they asked for my second last name. Or type it twice if they don't allow that.
My parents were never married, not related even distantly, but had the same surname down to the spelling. If I had to register in a Spanish-speaking country, I'd probably adopt my maternal grandmother's original surname since it's different.
It's actually not that uncommon to have both your surnames be the same, my professor is called Marco Antonio Moreno Moreno, and my mother had a friend in her birthtown(a city full of people with the surname López) that had as surnames "López López" Edit: typos
Having both of your surnames is not that uncommon, so a lot of people have surnames like Ortiz Ortiz Kinda funny, but obviously this is up to personal decision loll
It doesn't work like that pal. If that's the case you just repeat your lastname twice I know many people with the same last name repeated. I'm going to give you some examples Valeria Hernández Hernández Pedro López López María Fernanda González González Gustavo Díaz Díaz Etc.
Should look into the origin of names because a lot of intermixing of languages into Spanish. For example, I found out my last name Tene which I had thought was indigenous actually had African roots and many others have this name in Ecuador.
Yup, it's always fascinating to see a surname that's "out of place" (for lack of a better word). For instance, there are football players on Central American teams with English surnames (e.g. Joel Campbell for Costa Rica). I looked into it, and it turns out that this was a result of Jamaican immigration to Central America during the early 20th Century. The movement of people creates so many stories to be explored.
The portuguese language also have this tradition, so I know what I'm talking about. We don't treat it like "2 given names", it's more like a "compound name". Basically it's given name (can be just one or up to 3 usually + mother's surname + farther's surname (witch will be your surname _de facto_ or "family name" ) There ARE lots of exceptions! Here in Brazil you can name your child almost whatever the f you want, so it's even crazier sometimes. Overall, there can also be double mother's surnames, double father's surnames, why not both? I myself got a triple given name, but most people consider the third a surname even tho it's from my father's and it's before the mother's (Edit: wrote this before seeing the full video, sorry. Seems like spanish has the mother's surname coming after the father's, but still the father's is the child's family name)
I’m an American with a long (11 letter) Lithuanian last name. When I’m in Latin America my one, very long last name sometimes gets split into two words. I laugh and just roll with it 😂
If you want a good example of the contrast of Spanish naming conventions they show it in both Narcos & Narcos: Mexico. Two DEA agents irl were Hispanic American - Enrique “Kiki” Carmarena & Javier Peña. Compared to the Colombians and Mexicans they only went by the two names. In contrast to say Pablo Emilio Escobar Gaviria or Miguel Angel Felix Gallardo. In Narcos: Mexico all Mexican characters call Felix Gallardo, well, Felix Gallardo. But all the Americans (including Carmarena despite being of Mexican descent) call him “Felix”.
bro u couldve looked up the IPA of the few words u said in Spanish, double L is pronounced /ʎ/ or /ʝ̞/ (the latter being the pronunciation of the letter y, some people make the distinction of the 2 sounds and some others don't)
I was hoping that the Grandchildren of Princesa de Asturias would contain "de Borbón" in their surname due to her being 1st in line to the Spanish Throne
I hyphenated my surname with my wife's when we got married. Sometimes people ask "What happens if your kids get married, are they just going to end up with a triple or quadruple barrelled surname?" My suggestion to them would be to adapt the Spanish convention. If they're male, they can hyphenate my part of the surname with their spouse's. If they're female, they take my wife's part of the surname instead. That way it avoids surnames that keep getting longer, and no preference is given to either gender. The order of the names can just be alphabetical. It works fine for same sex marriages too. The one case I can think of where it doesn't work is if they are non-binary. So if I have a non-binary child, they'll just have to figure that out for themselves if they get married.
Some people on the Spanish world hyphenate as well, normally when they come from important or royal families. I took this count for example Ignacio Fernández de Henestrosa y Ortiz de Mioño. Fernandez de Henesteosa is the fathers compound and Ortiz de Mioño the mother’s
When I lived in Spain, whenever I needed a second surname for a form or something, I just repeated my last name twice. It seemed wrong to just tack another name on to my name
I hated the imposition of English naming conventions when I started my family tree on both Ancestry and MyHeritage. I'm Portuguese and traditionally married women also don't adopt their husbands' surnames. (There was a fashion of doing that mid-20th century, but then it faded and now is residual.) My mother did (she married in 1966), but none of my female ancestors did (and neither did my sister and my sister-in-law). So, when I was filling up my tree I would put, say, "Abel Gouveia" and his wife "Teresa Pereira", and I would leave Teresa's "married name" field blank. But then I noticed that when accessing my public family tree, it would say "Teresa Gouveia (born Pereira)". My grandmother was born Teresa Pereira and she died, 99 years later, as Teresa Pereira. There wasn't a single second in his life when she was Teresa Gouveia! I must confess that was one of the reasons I said F*ck it! and stopped building my online family tree. (I have my own, offline family tree, of course, with the names my ancestors actually used, not the ones some English-speaking guy decided they should use...)
We follow Portuguese naming conventions here in Brazil. These traditions are very similar to Spanish ones. As Brazil is a country full of racially-mixed people, we have surprising surname combinations. I myself have a Japanese surname on my mother’s side (Ito) and a Syrian surname on my father’s side (Anuatti).
2 ปีที่แล้ว +1
8:57 In Spain, you would never refer to a teacher by their surname, but by their given name, even in university
As a Spanish PhD student, I had to make a choice as well on how to be cited for my articles. I chose the hyphen, but even so they misspell my second surname quite often or forget it altogether.
TBH I don't see how much this could be an issue for regular people outside the hispanic world, most people I know use Given Name 1 + Surname 1 on a daily basis, and only for official purposes is used the FULL NAME, so there's obviously trouble for hispanic people in other places, but for example in the citation issue you could simply go by Goyes, J but in the records of the company or university your name would be J. Goyes Vallejos.
is it really so uncommon in english to have spaces in the lastname? in germany it's quite common, either due to a double name, or former nobility. and afaik at least the former nobility thing apeals to the netherland, france ad italy aswell
My fiance is Hispanic, and that inspired me to keep both my last name and his. It's a nod to Spanish in that I will have two last names and our future children will have them, but I also get that little bit of my own tradition. I'm also kicking tradition in the face by defying the "only male children carry on the family name" crap
We also do use nicknames by merging together our names (mainly with common names), my names are Juan Fernando but most people call me Juanfer, my friend Juan José, Juanjo and another friend María Alejandra, Mariale
As others have chimed in, the Portuguese name convention is very similar to the Spanish one, but the order of the father's and mother's surnames inverted. What is funny about that, is even though the paternal surname comes last, it is normally considered the "main" surname, with people referring you by your last surname. Other difference is that when couples marry, the custom is the woman to get the husband's last surname, so married women normally are named: 1st Given name (+ 2nd given name) + maternal surname + paternal surname + husband surname. But here in Brazil some more modern couples are not following this norm, with wives retaining their complete names as original.
I believe it wasn't mentioned but it was, still might be a tradition in some areas, to choose the name of a Saint or Virgin as a second given name regardless of gender. Which I why a lot of people could be named José Maria (males) or Maria José (females)
You missed a tradition. When people get married, it was traditional to have de in their name for example: maria muñoz alvarez marries jose colón rosa she becomes maría muñoz alvarez de colón
A friend of mine weent to Universidad Autónoma de Guadalajara in Mexico. He's an American with a standard English name, Doane. The authorities at the University required that he tell them his mother's maiden name, Mark, and all of his records called him Doane Mark.
Another thing that creates confusion is when you use a stage name, and put your stage name on all your social media accounts, but then it seems like every time I try to fill out a form online, my laptop keeps auto-filling in my stage name in place of my legal surname. If I fail to notice it, I keep getting an alert back that the name on the form doesn't match the name on my credit card or bank account or whatever.
Just to add to the last part, in Mexico, people with only one last name who become citizens don't adopt a second one. Most online forms don't have an obligatory second last name field and when asked about it it's usually enough to tell them that you were born elsewhere.
About the 10:05 part, we actually can give our second Surname to our Children, thus saving the Mother name; this is usually done to honor the Mother, by keeping the name living longer.
Important to note that having two given names are the convention, but are not the limit. Some people have three or even four given names (although is more uncommon to see). Also when a heterosexual couple marry, the woman can choose to add her husband lastname. for Example I am José Carvajal Pérez, if I marry a woman named María Rivera Peña, she would change her name to María Rivera de Carvajal (the "de" part meaning "of") that´s the traditional way it´s done. And when Hispanics marry non-Hispanic people, what I´ve seen is people follow what ever naming system is used in the country they are living, I guess it makes everything so much easier. I always though it would be cooler if men pass down their father´s surname and women pass down their mother´s surname. That way a person could show their paternal and maternal lineage
hahahah very informative and kinda humerous video great job! 1) I did use my mom's last name (no name change for Chinese women when marry) when I had my Chilean ID. And I assure you that the moment I saw my TWO last names displayed on the screen, I suddenly felt a warm light shooting thru my body with the power of my mom and her family's life! 2) In prof. Goyes Vallejos case, I do think the adaptation for naming traditions should be mutual, meaning compromises DO have to be made on both sides. The hosting country, institute could try to give users to input names in more diverse format, like a simple string with whatever symbols; But on the other hand, I do think it's the user, the scientist, or the foreigner, is the one who has more obligation to adapt to the host's naming tradition. Like, it's unrealistic to expect every country to accept every other countries writting system, like East Asian Characters or Arabic letters. In general, adapting to the local tradition or convention makes us part of them right? It could be a good feeling too :) Also, not writting out your name the exact same way, doesn't meen YOU are not YOU anymore. It's like children have been without mom's name for centuries, but are we NOT our mother's children? right? haha
Even though the wife does indeed keep her full name after getting married, she can add her husband's surname(s) at the end of her full name. It is a tradition that is mostly used today in the most formal of occasions. For example: María Martínez Pérez gets married to José Padilla Ayala, so she has the option to present herself as María Martínez Pérez de Padilla Ayala or María Martínez de Padilla or even just María de Padilla. The "de" before the husband's surname(s) is there to indicate she is the wife "of" that man.
7:50 In my family, those that was born in Central America have this naming system. For the uncles, the naming system got passed on to my generation regardless where they were born in, but for the aunts, they only keep it to themselves, while their children (I am one of them) use the local naming convention or follow the spouses'.
If they have the choice of the order of surnames, I wonder how many will deliberately put them in alphabetical order because the parent who's second sees it as an advantage.
What are your experiences with Spanish names? Wether you have one yourself or not.
Im Hispanic but none of my family has the second surname. We probably either threw it out or got very integrated into American culture. Btw much love from Florida
My Spanish friend wanted to use their mother's surname but living in Britain, nobody could say it, so they went for their father's name.
people introduce themselves with a short nickname, and you generally have no idea what their full name is unless you are searching through their id papers.
My name is Saul Martin Contreras
@@charcoal8 ouch lol, yeah Brits have enough trouble pronouncing taco.
The double surname system makes genealogy SOO much easier bc every generation has their own last names. Everyone is not bundled up under a single surname. It is easier to identify family and ancestors.
Exactly. It is so much better in practical terms. Especially if you work with people's data in the government
in portuguese we do something similar, but the surname order is the other way around
GivenName1+(GivenName2+)Mom'sSurname+Dad'sSurname
and people are usually known by GivenName1+Dad'sSurname. but many people are also known as GivenName2+Dad'sSurname, especially women that are called Maria+Something+MS+DS, they usually go as Something+DS. but this second scenario also occurs with other people, not only Marias.
and the filling of english-based forms is also annoying for us.
portuguese also allows for compound surnames, in which each surname is made up of several words, connected with 'de' (of) or 'e' (and), but that are a single surname and often mis-cited as well.
It's super annoying when travelling. The most notable thing is wtf passports have to follow English conventions?
The name Maria has a bit of a special status in Germany, too. Despite it is a female name, some men have the name Maria as their second given name. Examples for that are "Rainer Maria Rilke" (1875-1926) and "Markus Maria Profitlich" (1960-).
@@HalfEye79 The same in Portuguese. José Maria is a old-fashionable name that was pretty popular in Brazil. It has to do with devotion to the Virgin Mary, of course.
@@aesculetum i was going to comment this as well
but with men, i feel it is more commonly associated with the more posh-ish folk (what we would call betos). that might just be a stereotype, though
Mirabel’s full name is actually Mirabel Valentina Rojas Madrigal, so they do follow traditional spanish naming conventions.
wow this is so cool to learn!
I didn't know that was her full name. Nice to know! I assume Rojas would be her father's surname. Yes, it follows the conventions and, because in the story (and in the village) there is so much emphasis in the family Madrigal, for me, it does make sense that everyone goes by Madrigal. I say that as a Brazilian who grew up in a little city where one side of my family, my mother's, was more known. My grandfather was mayor of city at some point and my mother is health secretary (she knows a lot of people there) so, I always went by my mother's surname. Worth noting: Brazilian naming conventions are a bit different than what is explained in the video, but having both parents' surnames is something we have in common.
@@isabel_aav Yes, Rojas is Agustín's surname.
It is not revealed yet what Félix's surname is though.
They probably all go by Madrigal because it is the common surname for the extended family. For example if you were referring to my paternal family, including uncles and grandparents you’d call us the Mestre but that would change if you talked about the maternal family
Sure, but that's not explained in the movie is it?
Lots of nicknames in Spanish are abbreviations of the two names (such as Juan José= Juanjo, Juan Carlos= Juanca), but the one I find fun is "Ignacio"'s nickname which is Nacho!
Ignacio with italian is pronounced ig-nacho. Get rid of ig, and there you go, nacho 😁
I personally love the nickname Lalo for Eduardo (or Eladio, Gerardo & Gonzalo). I also love Juanma or Josema for Juan María or José María.
Those are hypocoristics, and hypocoristics also exist in English.
My absolute favorite is the nickname for Francisco: Paco
in mexico, jose maria is also "chema", although in the philippines it would be "jomari" or "joma". also, is it spanish or mexican to nickname every jose "pepe"? or is it a filipinism?
I think we should all adopt the Spanish system, and keep all the names, doubling the number of surnames every generation.
Alternatively, we adopt the Icelandic naming system so that nobody has a similar name.
If you want a gender-neutral variant to "Son" or "dotter" then I propose we just had "kid". So the gender neutral variant of Erik's kid is literally "Erikskid".
It's chaotic, but I think it would be funny
@@pennyforyourthots Omg, I love the idea of -kid endings! 😂 Felixkid, Oleskid, Matthewskid, Patrickskid, Finnskid - actually sound like proper surnames! You could even do the mothers name - Maiaskid, Oliviaskid, Ivyskid, Lillianskid, Emmaskid, still sound good!
@@pennyforyourthots It would be Erikschild... but that is not a surname at all... the kid would just be a child of Erik. Now Rannveig (Jónsdóttir) was the mother of Vilborg and Una (Jónsdætra)... as the father of Rannveig was named Jón (Bjarnason) and the husband (childsfather) of Rannveig was also named Jón (Höskuldsson). Jón was and is the most common name for males...
That's the traditional portuguese royal family naming style, as shown by emperor Peter II de Alcântara João Carlos Leopoldo Salvador Bibiano Francisco Xavier de Paula Leocádio Miguel Gabriel Rafael Gonzaga
😂
Some brazilian families still give all the grandpa's names for their children, wich quickly becomes a mess as you might imagine
Thats not the Spanish system lol, I do want to use the Spanish system now tho, especially after people like Pat think it should be done away with becuz "equality everyone 🥰" 🙄
As a Scot who has lived in Spain, I spent twenty years having to answer "yes only one surname" and filling in forms with primer apellido and segundo apellido was not fun especially when electronically. ERROR.
Don't get me started on how repetitive M de Madrid and C de Cataluña when spelling the Mc part of my name was, often rendered as Mo... on some forms in sheer disbelief.
But hey, if we all had the same culture life would be boring. Viva los McEspañoles
Mine situation is the reverse in USA. The boxes in paper are not long enough to write my double last.
When I lived in Spain I just put my mother’s maiden name on forms, even though my legal name in the US does not include it. But her maiden name is listed on my birth certificate so it’s legal and valid to use it in Spain. Voilà problem solved!
😆😆😆
When I got married to my wife, who is from Mexico, I was actually required to sign my name using the Spanish naming system for our Mexican marriage certificate. Being an American with German/English names, it was a combination and order I had never needed to sign official documentation with. Since then, I have adopted writing out my name with my mother's maiden name at the end in certain situations, just to avoid to confusion of being called 'Señor John'.
i´ve allways wanted to understand how in earth and also why my stepmother´s surname (1st apellido) is John, and now i know
Also quick fyi, in not so formal context it is correct for we spanish natives to say señor + given name
@@diegoeliasindriago7991 Yep, having international family can make a lot of everyday things very interesting!
I've used señor/señora + given name informally in Mexico. The reason I found Señor John confusing is because I normally don't go by my middle name, and a lot of offices would see my I.D., and then use my middle name as my last name.
My wife has had similar issues in the U.S. where they've assumed her apellido paterno was a middle name, and therefore call her by her mother's last name.
I find this a bit odd. Although an extreme minority, there are Mexicans with only one last name. This is the case of children whose paternity is unknown. Most of the time the get their mother’s last names; but there are these rare occasions when the child only gets one maternal last-name.
But you are Señor John, in Spanish titles can come before given names, not necessarily after surnames. For example I can be, Señor Raymundo or Señor Lozano
@@diegoeliasindriago7991 Wait, so Consuela from Family Guy was right to call someone "Mr. John"?
The way Encanto's naming convention was explained to me is that all the members are called either Madrigal or de Madrigal, due to the prominence of the family. So Agustín's last name is still Rojas, and thus his daughters' last name is Rojas Madrigal (Mirabel's full name, btw, is Mirabel Valentina Rojas Madrigal). But in the context of the family he married into, he's known as Agustín Rojas de Madrigal. Likewise, Dolores and Mariano's kids will be known as [Kid's Name] Guzmán [Dolores' Paternal Name] de Madrigal. Say they name a kid Pedro. He'd be Pedro Guzmán Castillo de Madrigal (I'm using Félix's VA's name as a placeholder, since we don't know his last name).
The Rivera family in Coco uses the same conventions. Rivera is the name of their business, and everyone in the family is part of that business, so they are all known at least as de Rivera. Basically, Miguel's name is Miguel [Father's Name] [Mother's Name] de Rivera. In school, Rivera wouldn't be part of his name at all. However, we the audience don't know the surnames of the men who married into the family (Julio and Franco), so Rivera is the only name we are able to call them by.
it makes some sense because in american and british media we sometimes see that if a man marries into a very important family and gets brought into the family, instead of the daughter being "removed" from the family to start her married life, the husband will take the wive's family name because it's an important(and sometimes powerful) family name
Eh, not exactly. Let us take Agustín from encanto: he is Agustín Rojas. No more, no less. He is recognized as a member of the Madrigal family, but he neither takes their name not would he be known as "de Madrigal".
Mirabel is Mirabel Rojas Madrigal, still a Madrigal, but for all legal intents and purposes she would be called Mirabel Rojas.
The kids of Dolores and Mariano would be KidName Guzman (from Mariano) Madrigal (from Dolores). Not "de Madrigal", just Madrigal.
If Bruno would have married, due to time customs and uses, his wife would be known as Name Lastname de Madrigal. In those times women were seen as property of the man, so she would take the "de Lastname" as her name. The "de" indicates property in Spanish. Thus, we could think that Julieta is known as Julieta Madrigal de Rojas, and Pepa is Josefa Madrigal de (Félix's last name).
The grandma would be known as Alma Viuda de Madrigal, as she is a widow and we can assume Pedro's last name is Madrigal.
Nowadays no one changes their last names like that, women are their own and keep their identity regardless of civil status.
makes a lot of sense. so it's more or less the same in our country, that the kids' surname/s follow the form of their mother's (julieta's), who, though in documents may be using her husband's family name "rojas", has kept her maiden surname "madrigal" according to hispanic convention. if she had been filipino, she would've been registered as JULIETA MADRIGAL de ROJAS after marriage, and mirabel's birth certificate would say, MIRABEL ROJAS y MADRIGAL. the name "madrigal", whether illustrious or not, would always be there... but alas, would not be inherited by mirabel's own children.
@@Ray_Vun this may have been where the british aristocratic double-barrel names come from.
I didn't know this but it works specially with the "de" + spouse's last name which was pretty used in here,( but not for the kids as far as I am concerned, the kid wouldn't be called "de Madrigal" that sounds weird in a kid) , in the 20th century and since Encanto is supposed to take place in the 50s. It was a rather sexist practice basically being reffered to as "of" a certain family like that it was usually done only through marriage adding the "de".
Imagine women not giving their children their surnames.
This post was made by the latin gang
Imagine men not giving their children their surnames
Imagine parents not giving their children their names at all
They still do in this system@@YeOldeMan88
The thing I like the most of Spanish names convention is that there are less people named the same compared to other Spanish names, in comparison to English names, because of the two surnames giving a bit of possibilities for different combinations, specially with compound names.
I'm Mexican and my parents have very very rare surnames, so I am very sure that nobody else is called like me and maybe there never will be.
Or you could have Martinez Martinez! I remember seeing somewhere people with both last names being the exact same!
@@sion8oh no cousins
@@FBI.capturo.gente.rara.
Actually, no. Funny enough. The parents were completely unrelated.
The Spanish naming convention has influenced the Filipino naming tradition.
Combined with the influence of American naming tradition, Our middle names became our mother's maiden name (as opposed to Second given name)
agreed
Exactly. Mother's surname becomes our middle name. Father's surname becomes our surname.
I’m Spanish, my fiancée is American and I asked her to not change her name after marriage. My surname is reserved only for people that were raised in our family.
I'm from Argentina and here it normally works like in the US, two names and your father's surname (like you can see in my name), which is the opposite of Spain because they mostly have only one name and two surnames (1st one is father's one and 2nd one is mother's one). However, in the rest of the hispanic countries it works like you said with two names and two surnames, with people with names like Gonzalo José Rodríguez Rodríguez, it's not quite usual but it can happen with very common surnames.
I disagree when you said we do not have middle names when we actually do. In spanish we've got the concepts of Nombre (Name) and Segundo nombre (Middle or seccond name) like you can see in my name, Diego is my name and Matías is my middle name. However, there's something called "Composed names" (Nombres compuestos in spanish) which are names made by a comination of two names. You can normally see this with names like Juan or María, those names are normally accompanied by another one, so if you ask What's your name? He or she is going to tell you Juan Pablo, Juan Cruz, María de los Ángeles, María del Carmen, José Luis, Miguel Ángel, etc. Those are very common composed names in spanish, but if you ask me or any other guy who don't have a composed name but two names, he or she is NOT going to answer: My name is Diego Matías, Pablo Jesús, Ana Celeste, etc, we're just going to tell you our 1st name (Unless he/she doesn't like it and prefer to use his/her second name).
Hope this comment works to understand it better.
PS: You can even have three or four names, I know people who do (of course cases are just a few).
In chile depends on the family, by law its like Spain, but here don't follow the law.
@@esquizofreniasobrenatural XD
Lionel Andrés Messi Cuccittini, Juan Domingo Perón Sosa, no todos los argentinos usan un solo apellido...
@@allahuakbar3658 Yo hablé en términos generales, obviamente hay argentinos con doble apellido, pero la mayoría tiene uno solo
This is super helpful
I really like hearing about how naming conventions are done in other parts of the world. It's always interesting to know how this works and I really like it. I think everyone should proud of their heritage and not care how much of a headache it might create on filling out forms. We should make forms fit people, not the other way around.
Oke, something I have interesting experiences with:
My parents are from china and they immigrated to Spain. Traditionally chinese names follow the father surname + given name which is very incompatible with spanish naming conventions, the thing is that if you get spanish citizenship then you HAVE to have a second surname (or at least is what they told me). So when my mother got spanish citizenship she just have to chose something. My name as it’s just my father’s surname and a given name (王宇 Wang Yu) so I just added my mothers surname (伍 Wu) so my name now is Yu Wang Wu in spanish but then it creates the problem of what it is in chinese then.
The other case I know is from my Algebra professor. He actually has a rant in his personal website about how they made him change his name and the problem with signing his research papers.
One funny thing is that sometimes I have problems because of my name (people just don’t know how to spell it but i guess that is normal), sometimes it’s too short for some things, to this day I can’t make a Papa Jonhs account bc my name is shorter than 3 letters smh.
I have derived moments of amusement from observing how some sport scoring display systems do not gracefully handle the Spanish naming conventions. In particular, I remember a gymnastics competition held in a European country where French team member Melanie de Jesus dos Santos’s name (born in Martinique, hence the French citizenship with an Hispanic sounding name) was ultimately displayed as MDJDS because they could not figure out any way to enter her name for the desired display.
Dos Santos sounds Portuguese.
@@estrellagarciazamora8721 - Could be. Lots of cultures converged at Martinique.
As someone in the IT field it's quite annoying to me how Anglo/U.S.-centric on-line sign ups are.
It also affects street addresses, meaning there's times people need to know their county or equivalent because the form was created with U.S. states in mind.
Hay personas que tienen hasta tres nombres, así podés decidir por cuál de todos querés que te llamen, la dinámica es interesante por ejemplo cuando te llaman solo tu primer nombre y tu primer apellido se siente distinto a cuando te llaman por los dos nombres y dos apellidos, suena más serio y elegante
Sabes que estás en problemas cuando tu mamá te llama con el nombre completo
Traditionally married women in Spanish cultures do change their names. They are supposed to drop the maternal surname and add their husbands surname after the article de (of). This tradition is practically dead but it is the tradition
The best example of this might be the vicepresident of Argentina, Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner
@@Matix666rock "Fernandez de Kirchner" I wonder where her husbands family is from lol.
This is very much correct. My mom did this exact thing and it’s very difficult when handling documents in the US since these are not very compatible with articles, at least in our experience.
That's what I remember learning, and also that one's (original) name has "y" ("and") between the two surnames.
That was the textbook description (literally) when I studied Spanish as a teenager back in the early 1960s. I think the textbook writers were consolidating the practices of the majority of Spanish speaking countries in the Americas.
Since I was living in Miami, FL during those years, there were plenty of people around me who could serve as examples, most of them from Cuba.
In Brasil 🇧🇷 the naming custom is similar, but there are many Japanese Brazilian families who have been here for generations but still keep only one surname
So I’m Italian born and raised but my mother is Cuban (so she has all the latin customs, including the surname one). When my mom married my father in the late 90’s she refused to take my fathers surname, saying “I already have a surname I do not need yours”. And when I was born she wanted to give me her surname but at that time Italy did not allow it yet.
Funny story.
Italians only carry their father's surname.
@@Venezolano410 did you read the story? I know that Italians only carried their father’s surname and that I said, that is what I have.
But in 2022 the sentence 131 the Corte Costituzionale declared that automatically giving your child the fathers surname was unconstitutional and that is why now you can give your child the mothers and the fathers surname.
I also like the naming conventions of the Romans:
Given name + Family name + Byname (sort of nickname)
My example is the name "Gaius Julius Caesar", who was from the family of the "Julier".
When I remember correctly, the women only get the "femalized" version of the family name. So a sister or a daughter of Gaius Julius Caesar would be just Julia.
And then there were the emperors who half the time just added "Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus" to the start of their name upon becoming emperor, Just because.
I always wondered why Octavian's sister was Octavia. It must not be the personalized name we were referring to them by. Guess it doesn't much matter for Octavian anyways because he inherited the name of Gaius Julius Caesar :p
Fun fact, that's WHY late Roman emperors added Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus to their names. Octavian (later known as Augustus) inherited Caesars wealth and his name from his will, after his assassination by members of the Senate in 44 BC.
"Julier" -> "Julii" and "femalized" -> "feminized"*
As far as I remember the daughters would be named in the order of birth, so Julia I (I don't remember Latin numbers), Julia II, Julia III, etc.
@@sion8 Prima, Seconda, Tertia, Quarta, Quinta etc.
I knew a man who was the child of a Czech woman and a Cuban man. He was born in Cuba. Czech woman's names are the feminine forms different from the masculine form usually ending in "-ova". Since the Cuban authorities insisted on giving him the name on her passport regardless of her explaining the grammar, his last name was something like Martinez Novakova. Which is quite confusing in Czech.
I know people with dual citizenship which have one official name in their home country and their official name in the second citizenship country.
Meaning they follow whichever convention of the language or culture of each country.
The son of a very famous Mexican comedian (Cantinflas) was: Mario Moreno Ivanova because his mother was Russian.
@@sion8That's how everyone should do it everywhere they go instead of being wedded to the whole string they happened to grow up with as a kid.
@@PrezVeto
I don't agree for the most part. As long as one's name isn't too different in one of the two or however many countries one has citizenship in I think that's alright, but if someone wants a completely different name in one than the other, I'd think that's some form of fraud.
@@sion8 We're not talking about a completely different name. We're talking about writing John Smith in the U.S., Smith John in China, and John Smith Jones in Spain.
A further tradition in aristocratic families (now somewhat antiquated) was to conjoin the two surnames with "y" ("and"), e.g., Juan García y López. In cases where the maternal surname began with "I," "Hi," or "Y," the surnames were conjoined with "e" (also meaning "and") instead, e.g., Tomás Alba e Ybarra.
that is a similar thing tho the english hyphen right?
From where I live, we still use the "y" in judiciary matters
@@diegoeliasindriago7991 Sort of. It was not uncommon at one time for British aristocrats to use double surnames (with or without the hyphen) to preserve a surname that would otherwise have gone extinct due to a lack of male descendants. So the reason for the hyphen was not quite the same as the Spanish 'y' or 'e.'
Today, some non-arisocratic couples choose to give their children a double last name (with or without the hyphen).
Sometimes, a married woman will use the hyphen to concatenate her maiden name and her husband's surname, e.g., Mary Smith becomes Mary Smith-Jones when she marries. In some cases, both members of a couple take the double surname, so that Mary Smith and Tom Jones become Mary Smith-Jones and Tom Smith-Jones when they marry. This is relatively rare, however.
Also, people have just invented hyphenated names for themselves. So, it is rash to make assumptions about the origin of a double surname in English-speaking cultures.
@@renaultellis6188 For non-aristocrats?
Or the classic " de " (of) as refering to the noble house
The Portuguese/Brazilian system is similar to the one described here. I married a Brazilian and we both kept our names the same. Any children also take one last name from each parent, though it seems like parents choose which ones they prefer to pass on, rather than focusing on passing on patrilineal names.
Not true. I'm Brazilian and the Portuguese convention is Given name - Mother's maiden name - Father's last name. Essentially the opposite from Spanish. Some families chose to give their children their father's middle name as well but it is not common. Some people also have a composite name.
Actually the mother's name prevails on Portuguese names.
Patrick,I love your vid; keep up with the work, you deserve everything in this world.
Whenever Americans call other naming traditions sexist, I always cringe. We forget that just a few generations ago, American women's names were, in official address at least, subsumed by their husband's names, so that if the husband's name was Mr. John Smith, his wife would be officially adressed as Mrs. John Smith.
I'm from Spain and I would like to point out up until very recently in the dictatorship of franco very usually had traditional catholic names which followed this pattern (Given name)+(Parent or grandparent name)+Name of the saint of the day you were born+Father surname+Mother surname. This was, however, merely ceremonial and was rarely used outside the baptism papers and church documents.
Any examples?
Marcos Francisco Ignacio Sánchez Arenal
@@conversandoando Carmen Isabel Juanita Eco del Cielo Brava Cortes
But the real name is the baptismal.
Sound cool
reminder to look up the pronunciation of "apellido"
double L and R are the bane of most anglophnes.
@@nicolasinvernizzi6140 R and RR are understandable, but if people can approximate "quesadilla", they can do the LL in "apellido"
Interesting. Here in the Philippines, many people have Spanish names too, due to our colonial past, but the naming convention is very different. Very cool to know how other countries do names!
What is the convention there?
Almost the same. Informally you can be without your middle name. Example Juan Cruz if with second given name Juan Carlo Cruz. Then with middle name usually mothers maiden surname Juan Carlo Garcia Cruz. Some legal documents writes it as Juan Carlo Cruz y Garcia.
@@seejayep4258 Plus the middle name (mother's maiden surname) is often shortened to just a middle initial, then men who are named after their father, grandfather etc will have Jr. or III etc at the end
I'm Spanish, and although it is not legally used, we traditionally count the rest of our ascendants surnames as consecutive surnames. So your 1st surname is the 1st of your father, your 2nd is the 1st of your mother, and then your 3rd is the 2nd of your father, your 4th is the 2nd of your mother, your 5th is the 2nd of your paternal grandad, your 6th is the 2nd of your maternal grandad, and so on.
Strangely when my mom got married, and adopted my father's last name Greenberg, she dropped her middle name Linn and replaced it with her mother's maiden name Gilmore. She originally used it as her last name since she never knew her father. However my grandma, dispite never seeing my mom's father in decades, still uses his last name Dabney.
This convention of a woman switching her maiden name into a middle name was frequent in the US well into the 20th Century and even being used that way in official documents and phone books without asking the woman her preference.
*+*
Here in Argentina is not very common to have two surnames, we usually just have our father's surname.
The law allows the parents to choose what surname they want for their children, they can have the father's only, mother's only, or both in any order, but all child's from the same couple have to have the same surnames.
2:50 Ironically, even though the video was focused more on Spain I think it applies more to Latam.
I think the formula of 2 given names you mentioned is more common now in Latin America than in Spain itself, I come from Venezuela where most people have two given names but I've been living in Spain for a few months now and one thing that surprised me is that almost no one has a second given name, at least among young people. It's seen as an old timey thing.
As a Spaniard, from what I've seen... it's because the people becoming parents now are people with a second name who hate that they have one lmao
yeah, now if anything young people have 'nombres compuestos' (I'm María del Carmen for example), but i feel like in the south, 2 given names is pretty common, as I know a lot of people who have 2 given names (Manuel Martín, Juan Pablo, Ana María, etc)
@@tiramisu7339 I am from the north and its extremely rare to see a young person with two names.
Yeah. I remember feeling sad as a child because I only had one given name, unlike the rest of both families.
Coming from a culture where we have only ONE given name ( no surnames/family names at all), this is something new.
All of us have to split our given names in half when filling out international-related documents.
I wonder whether I'll have to split my given name again, or get to choose new surnames if I decide to settle in Spain.
Where are you from ?
@@DonPedroman Burma (Myanmar)
@@annuwazdmz1131 How hard is life there ?
@@DonPedroman Depends on your luck. If lucky, you get to live another day, if not you get butchered in "interrogation centres".
@@annuwazdmz1131 Yeah, typical in strict dictatorships, I hope you live to see your country relieve itself form the tyrants
I'm from Puerto Rico, and my mom originally didn't change her name to match my dad's but then we moved to rural NY, and she got so sick and tired of daycare employees, doctors, the school office, etc. always questioning her about whether she had authority to pick me up, what our relationship was, etc. because they couldn't understand that she was my mom when we had different last names (even though i carry both last names, and they are hyphenated because if not, they always leave out one of them). In the end she did change her name just to stop people from accusing her of trying to take me away or something
That's pretty sad actually.
What ignorant provincial people.
I was just thinking about this today. Another subject I would like to learn about is the origin of Spanish nicknames. How did Jose become Pepe and Jesus become Chuy?
The Pepe explanation is because on calendars, 19th of March, Saint Joseph's day, always came with the letters "p.p." underneath. That means "padre putativo" (father only by name of Jesus) and the letter p is pronounced Pe in Spanish.
Almost same story with calling our Francisco's "Paco", because underneath his name it said "PAter COmunitas" as he was the creator of the Franciscan community.
Most nicknames come from the "baby pronunciation" of said name, int Jesús's case it is something like "(je)chuy" in baby pronunciation
I hear that "Chuy" is the initials of
"Cristo hijo unico de Yahweh".
It's a mystery! I'm Eduardo but the nickname is Lalo. How did that happen?
@@pottertheavenger1363 Where are you from? My name is Eduardo as well and most of the time they shortened my name to Eddy, Ed, Edo and special case: Wardo.😅
Thanks for talking about this, I always get frustated when someone tries to call an spanish-speaking family only by the dads surname when all surnames are inportant in ur culture
Evidently not, since each parent only passes on one of their surnames to their offspring.
Part of the issue with Spanish format names on forms is lazy programmers, or ignorant writers. General Lopez Santa Anna tends to get called Santa Anna in US history books. Mostly, in the US, the full Spanish format is mostly used by politicians, like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, who was known as Sandy Ocaisio in High School.
The other reason to use the Spanish format is the lack of different surnames. Most people in the US know a Jose or Joe Gomez.
in portugal and spain it's so common for people to have the super common names like jose, joão, maria, ana, that if we went around only having one name, it'd be a fucking mess. like, i remember in school, every year, there was at least 4 girls named ana in the class. the way we distinguished them was often by calling them by their second name. and even as an adult, if at work there's people with the same name, one of them is either getting a nickname or getting called by their second name, to avoid confusions
The 2 names format limits the amount of variablity and creates millions of people with the same name, with 3 or 4 names your name can become a unique identifier.
Naming in portuguese is fairly similar. But the paternal surname is the last. My name has even a special quirk because my father opted to give me his two surnames, instead of just his paternal surname. So I ended up with three surnames. I recently moved to Australia and everywhere my "last name" is this enormous sentence.
Tbf it should be "Iberian naming conventions" rather than "Spanish", given that both are fairly similar. Father/mother order switches, but with that law change in Spain that's pretty much trivial. Sucks to see Portugal always forgotten behind Spain!
In the Philippines, Idk why we don't follow the Spanish naming convention despite being a former Spanish Colony. And we don't also use the American system of Middle Names (which is basically just a Given Name 2). Here, when we refer to Middle Name, we mean our Mother's Surname.
The naming system here is: Given Name (Could be more than one) + Mother Surname (Omitted to initial) + Father Surname
But police mug shots have retained the Spanish system, but with the addition of "y" for example: Given Name + Father Surname y Mother Surname
Bonus fact: Spanish Given Names here are getting out of fashion, and mostly old people have it. Anglo and other Western European names are now the fad for naming newborn children
In argentina we use a given names a second name and one surname, now you can choose which surname you want to use. I think anglos must to understand that we are not all the same.
When I was in a different college program, I had a classmate from Colombia who has this kind of last name.
Using the Spanish system my name would become: Desirus Anthony Burrows Ludlow. Ludlow is my mother's maiden name.
Nice spanish name!
In the Portuguese system: Desirus Anthony Ludlow Burrows.
The world generally just isn't ready for different nations using different naming conventions: patronymics, no surnames at all, prefixes, name-surname order, gendered surnames, capitalization, and as you mentioned: ways of inheriting surnames and hyphen vs. space. Speaking from personal experience with a few of those.
Imagine an English speaker asking for a girl's full name and she replying "Cristina del Mar Lorenzo de Jesús" lmao
Greetings from Spain!! Great video!! I think the fun part about our naming system is how we can trace back the surnames of our ancestors. I personally know 8 of my family names in order, just from knowing my grandparents'.
And in some places that is even used to convey some kind of "heritage pride". For example, in the Basque Country, it's said that in order to be a "true Basque" you must have at least 8 family names of Basque origin. This is usually just played as a joke (anyone who feels Basque can claim it and people will happily accept it regardless of their last names). But it's such a common saying that it even inspired a comedy film named "Ocho Apellidos Vascos" (8 Basque Last Names) 😂
It is even more fun if you migrate to a country that does not the Latin alphabet, say Japan.
In portuguese the tradition is basically the same, the only difference being that it is tradition for the father's surname to come in last, instead of the mother's
And what last name does a parent past to his child? His dad’s name or his mothers name?
@@fernathebest414 traditionally the ones that come from the male grandparents. Nowadays it's whatever the family chooses.
English speaking nations don’t do it because you might end up being named John P. Ball-Cox
In Puerto Rico traditionally name order is given name + middle name + father’s paternal last name + mother’s paternal last name. If a women marries a man she adds de (of) + husband’s paternal last name. I was born in NY, my parents opted just to give me my father’s last name and I kept it after marriage, mostly because my husband’s German last name just doesn’t fit the rest of my names. I think if we have children I want to give them both our surnames, neither our last names are pronounceable by average English speaker lol
Fellow Puerto Rican here and I would like to mention that even though adding “de (insert husband’s paternal last name)” to a woman’s name after marrying was a pretty common tradition back in the day, it has mostly died off, with the baby boomers being the last generation to prominently do this. These days when Puerto Rican women marry they just leave their name as is
13:18 There are lots of people in Spain who have only 1 surname and they usually don't have problems. For example, there's a huuuuuge amount of Chinese immigrants who have only 1 surname and have no problem :)
4:13 or, in a language the audience can understand a “simple name” and “compound name”
When it comes to what surname we use it's usually the rarest or the more prominent one.
An example would be Mirabel from the movie Encanto, she uses the Madrigal surname (her mother's) because it is the most prominent family.
There's also given names and surnames that are more that one word long.
For example my mom is called María del Rosario (often Abbreviated as Ma. del Rosario in official documents). Being Rosario the equivalent to a "Main name" and "Maria del" an appendix.
For surnames, some examples would be "Cabeza de Vaca" , "Del Valle" or "De la O" to name a few.
Meaning that, Hypothetically, you can have 9 words in your full name and that would be perfectly normal, an example would be "Maria del Rosario Cabeza de Vaca de la O". But sincerely, I prefer this complexity much more than just two short -sometimes meaningless- names.
7:56 They usually call the name with a diminutive of the father's name, like if your father's name is Luis you are called Luisito.
I'm an American living in Spain. On official forms I have a "nombre compuesto" (compound name) because there's no option for a middle name. I also have to leave a blank when they asked for my second last name. Or type it twice if they don't allow that.
My parents were never married, not related even distantly, but had the same surname down to the spelling. If I had to register in a Spanish-speaking country, I'd probably adopt my maternal grandmother's original surname since it's different.
Actually no, it's not unusual to a person to have the same surnames, so you can changed to Corey Reid Reid without a problem.
It's actually not that uncommon to have both your surnames be the same, my professor is called Marco Antonio Moreno Moreno, and my mother had a friend in her birthtown(a city full of people with the surname López) that had as surnames "López López"
Edit: typos
Having both of your surnames is not that uncommon, so a lot of people have surnames like Ortiz Ortiz
Kinda funny, but obviously this is up to personal decision loll
In cases like those we use both, I have a friend whose surnames are Romero Romero
It doesn't work like that pal. If that's the case you just repeat your lastname twice
I know many people with the same last name repeated.
I'm going to give you some examples
Valeria Hernández Hernández
Pedro López López
María Fernanda González González
Gustavo Díaz Díaz
Etc.
Should look into the origin of names because a lot of intermixing of languages into Spanish. For example, I found out my last name Tene which I had thought was indigenous actually had African roots and many others have this name in Ecuador.
Yup, it's always fascinating to see a surname that's "out of place" (for lack of a better word). For instance, there are football players on Central American teams with English surnames (e.g. Joel Campbell for Costa Rica). I looked into it, and it turns out that this was a result of Jamaican immigration to Central America during the early 20th Century. The movement of people creates so many stories to be explored.
@@ZhangtheGreat
I have one English surname (paternal) and one Spanish (maternal). My father is from Trinidad but grew up in Venezuela.
The portuguese language also have this tradition, so I know what I'm talking about.
We don't treat it like "2 given names", it's more like a "compound name". Basically it's given name (can be just one or up to 3 usually + mother's surname + farther's surname (witch will be your surname _de facto_ or "family name" )
There ARE lots of exceptions! Here in Brazil you can name your child almost whatever the f you want, so it's even crazier sometimes. Overall, there can also be double mother's surnames, double father's surnames, why not both? I myself got a triple given name, but most people consider the third a surname even tho it's from my father's and it's before the mother's
(Edit: wrote this before seeing the full video, sorry. Seems like spanish has the mother's surname coming after the father's, but still the father's is the child's family name)
1:41 Equatorial Guinea : hey where's me?
I’m an American with a long (11 letter) Lithuanian last name. When I’m in Latin America my one, very long last name sometimes gets split into two words. I laugh and just roll with it 😂
Yeah, we screw up a lot the Germanic and Slavic names.
@@DarthFhenix55 That one would be a Baltic name :)
If you want a good example of the contrast of Spanish naming conventions they show it in both Narcos & Narcos: Mexico. Two DEA agents irl were Hispanic American - Enrique “Kiki” Carmarena & Javier Peña. Compared to the Colombians and Mexicans they only went by the two names. In contrast to say Pablo Emilio Escobar Gaviria or Miguel Angel Felix Gallardo. In Narcos: Mexico all Mexican characters call Felix Gallardo, well, Felix Gallardo. But all the Americans (including Carmarena despite being of Mexican descent) call him “Felix”.
There are some names (especially José+something and María+something) that are refered by people using the second name
bro u couldve looked up the IPA of the few words u said in Spanish, double L is pronounced /ʎ/ or /ʝ̞/ (the latter being the pronunciation of the letter y, some people make the distinction of the 2 sounds and some others don't)
I was hoping that the Grandchildren of Princesa de Asturias would contain "de Borbón" in their surname due to her being 1st in line to the Spanish Throne
I hyphenated my surname with my wife's when we got married. Sometimes people ask "What happens if your kids get married, are they just going to end up with a triple or quadruple barrelled surname?"
My suggestion to them would be to adapt the Spanish convention. If they're male, they can hyphenate my part of the surname with their spouse's. If they're female, they take my wife's part of the surname instead. That way it avoids surnames that keep getting longer, and no preference is given to either gender. The order of the names can just be alphabetical.
It works fine for same sex marriages too. The one case I can think of where it doesn't work is if they are non-binary. So if I have a non-binary child, they'll just have to figure that out for themselves if they get married.
Some people on the Spanish world hyphenate as well, normally when they come from important or royal families. I took this count for example Ignacio Fernández de Henestrosa y Ortiz de Mioño. Fernandez de Henesteosa is the fathers compound and Ortiz de Mioño the mother’s
When I lived in Spain, whenever I needed a second surname for a form or something, I just repeated my last name twice. It seemed wrong to just tack another name on to my name
parents who coincidentally have the same 1st name name their children like that like Santiago tomás Rios Rios
About the Name priority on minute 8:40, actually, we don't have that; we use any combination of names and surnames, as long as they are used in order.
The Portuguese name tradition is the exact opposite to the Spanish one: given name + given name + maternal surname + paternal surname.
I hated the imposition of English naming conventions when I started my family tree on both Ancestry and MyHeritage.
I'm Portuguese and traditionally married women also don't adopt their husbands' surnames. (There was a fashion of doing that mid-20th century, but then it faded and now is residual.)
My mother did (she married in 1966), but none of my female ancestors did (and neither did my sister and my sister-in-law).
So, when I was filling up my tree I would put, say, "Abel Gouveia" and his wife "Teresa Pereira", and I would leave Teresa's "married name" field blank.
But then I noticed that when accessing my public family tree, it would say "Teresa Gouveia (born Pereira)".
My grandmother was born Teresa Pereira and she died, 99 years later, as Teresa Pereira. There wasn't a single second in his life when she was Teresa Gouveia!
I must confess that was one of the reasons I said F*ck it! and stopped building my online family tree.
(I have my own, offline family tree, of course, with the names my ancestors actually used, not the ones some English-speaking guy decided they should use...)
We follow Portuguese naming conventions here in Brazil. These traditions are very similar to Spanish ones. As Brazil is a country full of racially-mixed people, we have surprising surname combinations. I myself have a Japanese surname on my mother’s side (Ito) and a Syrian surname on my father’s side (Anuatti).
8:57 In Spain, you would never refer to a teacher by their surname, but by their given name, even in university
Argentine people tend to only have 1 surname, but some still have 2.
As a Spanish PhD student, I had to make a choice as well on how to be cited for my articles. I chose the hyphen, but even so they misspell my second surname quite often or forget it altogether.
Brazilian surname system:
Name + Name(optional and somewhat uncommon now) + mother's surname + fathers surname
Same in Portugal
TBH I don't see how much this could be an issue for regular people outside the hispanic world, most people I know use Given Name 1 + Surname 1 on a daily basis, and only for official purposes is used the FULL NAME, so there's obviously trouble for hispanic people in other places, but for example in the citation issue you could simply go by Goyes, J but in the records of the company or university your name would be J. Goyes Vallejos.
is it really so uncommon in english to have spaces in the lastname?
in germany it's quite common, either due to a double name, or former nobility.
and afaik at least the former nobility thing apeals to the netherland, france ad italy aswell
portuguese naming convention is pretty similar but the mom gets the same name as the kids would get, at least here in Brazil
My fiance is Hispanic, and that inspired me to keep both my last name and his. It's a nod to Spanish in that I will have two last names and our future children will have them, but I also get that little bit of my own tradition. I'm also kicking tradition in the face by defying the "only male children carry on the family name" crap
Lo siento, pero ese "apelido maternou" me ha matado XD
We also do use nicknames by merging together our names (mainly with common names), my names are Juan Fernando but most people call me Juanfer, my friend Juan José, Juanjo and another friend María Alejandra, Mariale
If we can add address line 2 then surely we can find a way to accommodate us, the pseudo hyphenated.
As others have chimed in, the Portuguese name convention is very similar to the Spanish one, but the order of the father's and mother's surnames inverted. What is funny about that, is even though the paternal surname comes last, it is normally considered the "main" surname, with people referring you by your last surname.
Other difference is that when couples marry, the custom is the woman to get the husband's last surname, so married women normally are named: 1st Given name (+ 2nd given name) + maternal surname + paternal surname + husband surname.
But here in Brazil some more modern couples are not following this norm, with wives retaining their complete names as original.
I believe it wasn't mentioned but it was, still might be a tradition in some areas, to choose the name of a Saint or Virgin as a second given name regardless of gender. Which I why a lot of people could be named José Maria (males) or Maria José (females)
Maria as in Mary from the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus.
José as in Joseph from Saint Joseph, father of Jesus
You missed a tradition. When people get married, it was traditional to have de in their name for example: maria muñoz alvarez marries jose colón rosa she becomes maría muñoz alvarez de colón
This is almost always only used for the wife tho
In Spanish some women changed their last names adding the prefix "de" but now it's not common
Spanish Speaker here: I have three names and 2 family names.
A friend of mine weent to Universidad Autónoma de Guadalajara in Mexico. He's an American with a standard English name, Doane. The authorities at the University required that he tell them his mother's maiden name, Mark, and all of his records called him Doane Mark.
Another thing that creates confusion is when you use a stage name, and put your stage name on all your social media accounts, but then it seems like every time I try to fill out a form online, my laptop keeps auto-filling in my stage name in place of my legal surname. If I fail to notice it, I keep getting an alert back that the name on the form doesn't match the name on my credit card or bank account or whatever.
Just to add to the last part, in Mexico, people with only one last name who become citizens don't adopt a second one. Most online forms don't have an obligatory second last name field and when asked about it it's usually enough to tell them that you were born elsewhere.
About the 10:05 part, we actually can give our second Surname to our Children, thus saving the Mother name; this is usually done to honor the Mother, by keeping the name living longer.
Important to note that having two given names are the convention, but are not the limit. Some people have three or even four given names (although is more uncommon to see).
Also when a heterosexual couple marry, the woman can choose to add her husband lastname. for Example I am José Carvajal Pérez, if I marry a woman named María Rivera Peña, she would change her name to María Rivera de Carvajal (the "de" part meaning "of") that´s the traditional way it´s done. And when Hispanics marry non-Hispanic people, what I´ve seen is people follow what ever naming system is used in the country they are living, I guess it makes everything so much easier.
I always though it would be cooler if men pass down their father´s surname and women pass down their mother´s surname. That way a person could show their paternal and maternal lineage
My father is Cuban and married my American mother. We went for a mixed system where I have 2 given names and only my paternal surname
hahahah very informative and kinda humerous video great job!
1) I did use my mom's last name (no name change for Chinese women when marry) when I had my Chilean ID. And I assure you that the moment I saw my TWO last names displayed on the screen, I suddenly felt a warm light shooting thru my body with the power of my mom and her family's life!
2) In prof. Goyes Vallejos case, I do think the adaptation for naming traditions should be mutual, meaning compromises DO have to be made on both sides. The hosting country, institute could try to give users to input names in more diverse format, like a simple string with whatever symbols; But on the other hand, I do think it's the user, the scientist, or the foreigner, is the one who has more obligation to adapt to the host's naming tradition. Like, it's unrealistic to expect every country to accept every other countries writting system, like East Asian Characters or Arabic letters. In general, adapting to the local tradition or convention makes us part of them right? It could be a good feeling too :) Also, not writting out your name the exact same way, doesn't meen YOU are not YOU anymore. It's like children have been without mom's name for centuries, but are we NOT our mother's children? right? haha
Fun fact: not only Chinese and Korean use the same system as Japanese, but also Hungarian! As the only such in Europe.
Even though the wife does indeed keep her full name after getting married, she can add her husband's surname(s) at the end of her full name. It is a tradition that is mostly used today in the most formal of occasions. For example: María Martínez Pérez gets married to José Padilla Ayala, so she has the option to present herself as María Martínez Pérez de Padilla Ayala or María Martínez de Padilla or even just María de Padilla. The "de" before the husband's surname(s) is there to indicate she is the wife "of" that man.
In Mexico that's not recognized as legal. You can do it unoficially, but not for legal matters.
7:50 In my family, those that was born in Central America have this naming system. For the uncles, the naming system got passed on to my generation regardless where they were born in, but for the aunts, they only keep it to themselves, while their children (I am one of them) use the local naming convention or follow the spouses'.
While we’re on the subject of family-related names, I’d like to know how the ways we address our parents has evolved.
If they have the choice of the order of surnames, I wonder how many will deliberately put them in alphabetical order because the parent who's second sees it as an advantage.