BIASED Benchmark?! Harvard Joins Other Elite Universities to Reinstate Testing Requirements
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Jessica Burbank and Amber Duke discuss Harvard University's decision to bring back standardized testing as part of admissions. #Harvard
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No matter how you try to cut it, factoring race in admissions is racist.
Simple, plain, and inescapable Truth.
it isn't racist.
@@bryan-rl9hd Explain how it isn't.
@@bryan-rl9hd That's a lie.
@@bryan-rl9hdok let’s say based on high school students behaviors, crime rate, tests and GPAs, they find a certain race group does far worse than others. Hence the college decides to limit the admissions to that race. Would that be still not racist? Another example, elite colleges found certain race group does far worse in college so they determined that this group should be admitted less. How about that?
Harvard doesn't test students?? That explains alot.
😂
only on your immutable characteristics
Don't think they test professors either which says more than not testing students.
Bri went to Harvard. That pretty much says all that needs to be said, doesn't it?
That's incredibly expensive indoctrination that you can get at Community College. Save your money.
Why is race even on the application?
because if it's not, how would they discriminate?
It's on every application
@dane3038 by gender and religion
Funny how this only became a concern when it stopped benefiting white people
So you know who to pick.
it's not the teacher it's the public school grading policies. high school grade inflation has gotten WAY out of hand. they are giving average students A's to avoid parent complaints, increase enrollement, and college acceptance.
And they are pressured to do so by whom?
school boards. parent associations. donors. superintendants. administrators.
they are all pushing policies for no homework. no zeroes for missing assignments. no testing. no F's. no accountibility.
that's why high school kids are reading at 5th grade levels and they can't perform basic mathematical calculations.
apparently 2+2= skee yee
I've seen that over the years. 15 years ago, the kids that got straight, A's were visibly the smartest, dorkiest kids in school... maybe a quarterback would sneak in.
Now, Mid students are 4.35 gpa's... now it all makes sense.
@@chet1921 Administration -- and btw the tenure argument is bogus, I watched teachers in shortage areas (sped, science and math) shown the door.
One rather large problem is our high schools do NOT demand excellence. They don't even demand competence from each and every student.
Kids who don't want to study, aren't interested in history, grammar, science, etc, need an alternative. Let them learn a trade starting at 16, so that by 18 they can be accomplished and at least partially skilled.
It would also reduce juvenile delinquency. They need purpose. Adult education is always an option should they want a change of career.
Jessica is completely wrong about what the Harvard lawsuit data showed. It did not show the only black students admitted were in the top decile. Completely false and should be retracted.
agreed - that was shocking. Harvard admitted black students who scored 100 points or MORE below their peers in other ethnic groups. And they weren't the only school that did that.
Merit is the way to go. Affirmative actions hurts EVERYONE including the group youre giving special treatment
Affirmative Action benefits everyone.
Good job Amber. Love that she pointed out the difference between Africans and Descendants of slaves here in America and the confusion of just classifying by race
Funding in schools is not a problem, it is how it is spent. Those that have worked in public education know what I am talking about.
Harvard should admit more Asian students with low test scores in the name of diversity...
There aren't any.
@@sharkh20 My kids would disagree...😂
Then Harvard will be 90% Asians
When I went to college (a long time ago), it was very common for Asian immigrant kids to be affirmative action admits with near perfect math scores and substandard English language skills. Elite colleges admitted Asian students "with low test scores in the name of diversity" for well over a generation, and anyone who denies it would be lying. .
@@philiplam2084💀😂
Not only are standardized tests a better predictor of academic success, they're also MORE equitable to low income kids. Low income kids can study and get good scores, and prove to schools that they can make it at the institution, regardless of how good or bad their schools are.
Plus, grades can be really inconsistent. If a high school drops their standards and starts giving everyone A's to be equitable or whatever, that won't actually help the kid when he or she gets to college.
Someone submitting a score of 1350 from Kansas who clearly didn't have any test prep more easily identified as a possible diamond in the rough than someone from the same area who decided not to submit a test score.
Umm no Jessica. It's not the low pay of teachers - in fact many teachers make quite a good salary. It's grade inflation with A's given out like candy. Look at the number of students with a 4.0 and yet can't even manage a 3 on the AP exam.
I live in a rural midwestern township with a small school - 50ish students per grade. Our teachers are very comfortably paid with good benefits; I've talked to several and they are very happy with compensation. When contract renewal time comes up, the administration offers a reasonable increase and the teachers union always accepts it. And the district always finishes the year with a surplus. And this is not an affluent township, just a bunch of middle class families and farmers.
It was never about merit before they got rid of standardized testing and it never will be about merit even if they reinstate it. Unless they get rid of legacy admissions, then that's the only way.
And if they get rid of legacy admissions a good portion of their funding would reduce making a lot of the facilities and programs they can offer because of that funding less appealing.
@@user-ri5ex9xl9every no. lol professors get in grant money to fund their work and the government gives grants as well. the extra funding just goes to pay admin and build useless buildings so no.
It was about the pandemic, nothing to do with race.
Legacy is still based on merit; it's just your father's merit.
With membership comes privileges and If you graduated from Harvard, I'm sure you'd want your child to as well.
@@9chilidogthat’s not merit. that’s daddy’s coattails.
Exactly, Students took the tests but were not required and no one talks about the largest group at Harvard are legacy students for which merit was just money.
lol, “no one talks about legacy students”…. Literally every black person online has been talking about legacy admissions since the Supreme Court case. Nobody here cares if u take away legacy, but ya’ll seem really mad about competing based on merit
I went to Harvard and legacies are a small minority, not the majority. Still, I do think legacies should be much reduced or eliminated. Something has to give and that’s the fairest group to cut out preferences for.
Grade Inflation is a MASSIVE problem.
I got into college based on test scores alone. Thank God you could do that back then.
May have been sole factor at your alma mater but no elite college admits on test scores alone and that has never been the case.
Imagine if a college had 100% of its 5,000 students named "Jessica" legitimately because they were the most-qualified applicants. Should that school stop admitting students named "Jessica" in favor of admitting some "Ambers"? How about some "Robbies"?
If Harvard reads your comment they'll be admitting only Briahnas for the next 20 yrs XD
the data shows that Asian students not only do better on SATs than white or Black students - but that Asian students are getting further and further ahead of the other students every YEAR. This is what was causing the problem. Asians were getting admitted with MUCH higher average SAT scores than Black or brown or white students. And the problem - the difference in scores - was getting further apart, as Asians keep getting scores that are simply increasingly BETTER. This was the tension. They are not equally looked at. Black students have MUCH lower scores than Asians at Harvard. They have to go to easier majors to survive (less STEM), they do worse while they are there, and they leave more of the time before graduating. Harvard can of course care about more than SATs, but they are almost definitely taking points away from the vast number of well rounded Asian students, and giving points to Black students, and brown, and likely white, too.
God forbid we just try to have an honest meritocracy
Universities should start their own high schools to improve opportunities for lower income kids.
Are they going to throw out all the unqualified students that got in? I doubt it.
They'll drop out on their own.
Test scores have always been found to be the best predictor of college success in the peer reviewed literature!!
Take THAT, DEI zealots!!
As someone who worked in Post-Secondary Administration for over 15 years, there is so much deflection and obfuscation going on here.
Yes, the Colleges are trying to hide their use of policies to discriminate. But what most people are missing is that these policies are the result of government initiatives worded badly. The schools are not trying to be reflective, they are trying to appease the government and select groups to keep their money flowing.
Second, not all standardized testing is the same. Some just test what amounts to the ability to memorize some facts. This greatly favors people able to afford tutors and take as many high-performing classes (even if they do badly). Others test comprehension of those facts. This is less favorable to the quantity of teaching and more toward the quality of learning. It still favors better school districts.
Third, this needs to be addressed at the primary level. At the collegiate level, it needs to be "the most qualified". It does not need to be the time to accept people through exception that are ultimately unqualified and doomed to failure. We need to overhaul primary and secondary education systems so more of those underprivileged are the best qualified. I actually have had a plan that is doable and cheaper than the current system, but is ignored because I am not a politician and it guts education administration that would be rendered unnecessary. But that is a different post.
Excellent segment, accurate assessment at the end there about the true barriers to higher ed.
The problem professional sciences versus education poses, is really who out competes equally educated peers to secure a paying job. Student sucess isn't really meanigful into the Who you know category, or the people who are willing to collaborate on scientific or educational styles of career paths, in my opinion.
The SAT is an excellent test. It does an excellent job rating chances of post-secondary success. It's designed to identify underprivileged students who can keep up with the work at highly demanding institutions. It's good at doing this.
I normally disagree with Amber but her point on the admissions process looking at skin instead of class is very correct. Africans are not Black Americans and often do not consider themselves black Americans like Black Americans do. So often in these schools they will admit many African students and claim they are admitting Black Americans.
Yes! Better public schools.
Maybe we should stop paying all these administrative staff
Veteran teacher here along with my wife who graduated from Brown. The lowering standards is based upon the liberal policies that have gotten out of hand. I taught at a top school in Connecticut and I was told: you can't give tests or homework...if a kid had a C or lower you had to call home and explain the grade...cheating is rampant and you are not supported when you try to address that or other poor behaviors...the abuse I received from parents and kids is off the charts (and I worked restaurant, plumbing and landscaping gigs while I worked my way through college so I am not immune from tough working environments)...students can do (almost) whatever they want...leave campus (I talked at length about how security would report the incidents and the kids would not be disciplined at all). Other examples: minimum F (you can't give below a 50 even if the kid does not turn anything in...or turns in profanity), test retakes (another school)....can't discipline minority students (another school), my school even got rid of midterms and finals because it was such a hassle dealing with the parents (I was not in favor of that). At one school I taught, the 50% percentile of the graduating class was a 4.0. ETC... If you can manage it send your kids to a private, religious or home school (like we do) - do it.
I don't know how to fix this, but the only way these tests seem relevant to me is if you take them without any kind of class or prep. Taking classes to better take the test seems to completely make the tests irrelevant. That being said i do think some kind of stanardized test helps compare students across different states and school systems.
I scored 1370 out of 1600 on the SATs. It roughly reflected my GPA. It seems that teachers are being forced to raise the GPA for non-academic reasons.
Its not that teachers and their grading policies are bad indicators, its that districts pressure teachers to raise students grades.
Are they testing in order to graduate???
No more affirmative action for any student, i am very glad " testing" came back.
Grades are bad because they can’t boot troublemakers out like they used to.
A kid has to do something horrible to get booted out.
Maybe poorer areas could have classes based on the standardized testing practices. You would score higher if your education centered around teaching the stuff on the test. In fact, I would argue that education should be centered around teaching this stuff. The content on the tests is what students are supposed to be learning anyway.
Baltimore city school district is the 3rd highest funded district in the country, but most of its students cannot read or do math at grade level. Blaming funding is a copout; you either value education or you don't. We saw who values education during pandemic-era remote learning classes.
In the US, the standardized test is to admissions what the credit score is to a mortgage; it's fairer than previous subjective "assessments" with biased humans.
It's deeply flawed, but the problem isn't in the score; the problem is pretending housing or knowledge is in limited supply.
Test scores matter. This whole experiment was exactly as dumb as it sounded.
It was because of the pandemic, not lowering standards.
@@irresponsibleparent3Surely Asian students with better test scores were rejected because of COVID.
Who could have predicted this.
The schools in Massachusetts with the highest cost per student are in the cities and are also the lowest performing schools in the Commonwealth. This is likely true most places
NOW LET"S TALK ABOUT GRADE INFLATION AT HARVARD, COLUMBIA, ABD OTHER "ELITE" UNIVERSITIES.
The answer is to make all state and local colleges free and make them good enough to make elite college as obsolete.
With all the talk about equality (or lack) in college admissions, why do we still accept a system of supporting public schools with local tax money? Wouldn't that be the best place to start?
I wish the sound was better
Someone tell me WHY does an Ivy League campus NEED to “Look Like” the general population?? AA students tend to (almost completely) keep to their own on campus (as do some others)….So, WHAT is the “benefit” to the majority student body-rarely seeing/hearing from these minorities?
Adam Grant's book "Hidden Potential" also speaks to Grade Point trajectory as a predictor of academic success.
Old news. These studies are merely reinforcing the conclusions of earlier ones: standardized tests are the best predictor of college success. The only wrinkle here is the underlining of the fact that this applies to poor students just as much as anyone else. I could have told you that 40 years ago, when the whole AA issue was coming to the fore.
Yes, biased tests. Very income and social class dependent. One study doesn’t make it true. That’s why they should be reviewed. But then Harvard is elitist and social class dependent too.
How are they income she social class dependent? I grew up broke and never had problems testing because I knew the material. Either you learned the material or you didn’t… Race and social class have little to do with it. It’s more about whether you have parents that actually care about your education which I did fine even though mine weren’t very focused on those things.
You shouldn't need a study to tell you that standardized test separates a wheat from the chaff.
Get in where you fit in 😮
That sums up why many African-Americans prefer to attend HBCUs
If you are black they take 5 seconds off your fastest running record. Is it fair?
Fact check - Funding per pupil in Connecticut is actually higher in the poor urban areas (not sure about other states, Connecticut makes the data public)
Jessica, if Harvard was 15% black, would it be acceptable to implement measures to artificially reduce black enrollment so it’s proportional to their percent of the US?
The key concept should be matching a student’s abilities with their school’s requirements. What’s the point in sending a student to a top tier school just to have them fail. If they go to a school that matches their abilities they will graduate with skills that they can use to be successful and lead a productive life.
The bottom line is Harvard is a private university. They can admit whoever they choose.
I think kids learn more from study groups than they do an actual classroom with study groups they can put their heads together to come up with a solution.
Dear Jessica, why don’t you tell me the percentage of the Asian population that lives in poverty, since you brought up “misunderstanding the data”.
The best way to end race based discrimination is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.
I have to laugh at the comment, "I do think"...standardized testing makes sense. Guess the bell went off when they realized no one wanted anyone doing brain surgery on them because they sported a proper skin color or came from tim buck too. Heaven forbid one should actually be educationally competent and pass a test validating this in their future professed profession.
Wow
The ACT is the one metric you can actually trust as an admissions agent, otherwise it's all just subject to BS.
The highest per pupil costs in this country are in the big cities with huge minority populations. At one time Newark NJ and NYC were the most money spent per student. Would anyone like to check and see what we got for those costs. I know in NJ the city schools all spend more per student than the rich towns with tremendous test scores.
Special Ed takes up a disproportionately large amount, and city schools have more of those programs.
@@hdlc4635 OK, but funding has never been an issue in NJ. That is not the issue. Even if it is special ed, we can say the delta goes to that and the funding is the same as the rich towns. How do you explain the disparity in outcomes?
@josephpanella2726 One approach fits all does not work best for students across all districts. In NYC, there are charter schools with 100% "minority" students and test results comparable to suburban towns. Letting administrators establish their own criteria for their students may be best rather than demanding everyone follow a rigid plan.
Damage is already done.
Jess speaks directly from her feelings and avoids facts.
Harvard has done great damage to their reputation
Let the top universities pick the top students to lead the country ahead. If we need more Asians to compete with China in STEM field, simply admin as many Asians who can perform that task as you can. University admission isn’t the right tool to solve poverty and resource allocation problems-that’s the job of the gov, individual community, individual family to ensure all children have the same opportunities to be college ready.
Tests for the intelligent
DEI for the rest
Is Hamas membership enough for admission in Harvard?
In every study, they find strong correlation (in fact almost only factor) between college GPA and standard test scores. It will be disservice to give admissions to unqualified students knowing they will fail at the college instead of going to a college that suits their skills better.
archer0654 exactly. Imagine unqualified doctor performing a critical surgery or programming a nuclear power plant.
Jessica engaging in possibly the hardest, most dishonest cope I've ever witnessed. Lol
It sounds like Whites, blacks, Latinos and Native/Islanders need to step it up. Asians keep up the excellent work!
When someone says i went to brown i stop listening
Not enough old Asian ladies in the NFL. Why not?
who would have thought the ability to test your knowledge to be compared to others would be a good indicator that a student would learn smh, but the real problem is math is racist
Either do it on merit or based on the population should also include people with disabilities who have shown that they are college material. It should not just be focused on race.
People want to beat a dead horse for their owned biased reasons, but affirmative action is still legal for most everything OTHER than race, and that includes disability. There has never been an objective based "merit" program except in the eyes of those offended by Black admissions.
Good, now can we stop with the silly social experiments? They were fun while they lasted, but now it’s time to get back to reality..
These women are way more professional than Robbie.
Yes, Robbie is the DEI hire of The Hill.
I already know what racist Bri thinks of this.
You get to plagiarize at harvard too.
Anytime you make a choice based on race is racist. Why not focus on paying teachers a salary that allows them to go to work without being stressed about how they are buying groceries. People dont do well undwr financial stess
I'm really glad I didn't need the ACT or SAT.
Hey Harvard. Standardized testing is RACIST. Didn't you get the memo? 🤡🤡🤡
There actually is a problem with simply reflecting the general population of the US because of how it limits the opportunities based on race. If you think about it, it artificially (and intentionally) makes Harvard much more distinctively “white” if you did it that way. There’s also the broader diversity of thought problem…and legacies…
If it were just about meritocracy then one of the first steps would be to purge legacies…only thing is Harvard wants that money and power.
Too late.
Jessica is consistently wrong, yet arrogantly believes it’s everyone else misunderstanding the data.
I don't know if she actually believes it though. I think some people reach a point where the truth doesn't matter, doesn't even really factor it, compared to making a point in your team's favor.
💯, she doesn't believe anything she's saying. She's like the kids that go to church, and stay the Our Father's, and Hail Mary's but their hearts not in it, because they don't believe in this religion.
What's the obsession on the left with institutions "looking" like the outside world? What does that even mean? There's plenty of organizations that don't have the demographic breakdown ratios of society that they don't complain about. Aka the NBA. There's very few if any asians or latinos in the NBA.
Classic left wing/ right wing debate: Amber makes crisp arguments based on logic and facts. Jessica constantly changes the topic, focuses on fringe cases and relies on emotion and obfuscation.
Affirmative action is also a gender based program.
As well as location based. There are Ivys with affirmative action for small town and rural students.
Tax free arm of the government . isnt harvard valued higher than coke a cola
Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment...
You can't say "This campus has too many (pick your ethnicity) so we're going to admit less of them, and more (pick any other ethnicity)."
No matter how much you may desire ethnic diversity, such ethnic preference/aversion is unconstitutional. That's simply the law. You can challenge it if you like, but like Harvard, you'll lose.
Simple: Don't use race as college admission criteria. Doing so is blatantly racist anyway, and you don't wanna look like (and be in actuality) a racist, do you? 🤷♂️
⚘🌿🇮🇷♥️🇮🇷🌿⚘
Standardized testing is a bias test that must be eliminated. Give all students the opportunity to enroll be admitted and find out if they can endure and succeed because the playing field is equal to all either to succeed or fail.
Georgetown elite? You have to be joking.
I know to “next” any video with Jessica Burbank. She is as bad faith as the Majority Report
I’ll find this story somewhere else.
Jessica starts by quoting the Economic Policy Institute a left leanings organization. Bad data.
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