Josh, Mark, Todd, and his brother Sean discuss Alma 11-12, the relationship between salvation and revelation, and the pattern of the temple endowment in the Book of Mormon text.
Took so many important notes. The discussion towards the end regarding the cost and price of walking that ascending path of Christ’s Order and the excruciating nature of it-the wrenching of our very heartstrings-this has been my lived and visceral experience of the last several years. I have been taught by the Spirit many of these same concepts and principles, but personally and in isolation, so it feels so important to hear others voicing my lived experience and this very real, painful AND sacred path and process. It is real, it is true, it is treacherous and it is of the most sacred and sublime reward🙏 Bless each of you for your thoughts, experiences and sharings❤️
Incidentally, I also love your frequent references to Bonds That Make Us Free by Terry Warner. I was a psych undergrad at byu in ‘97/98 when I first read that book in it’s initial manuscript form and it has been profoundly paradigm shifting, and continues to impact me to this day. One of my favorite books❤️
You can do what you’re asked and obey and be mad about it and have a bad attitude about it but if you keep doing it then your heart will start to soften and your sacrifice will become willing and loving. This is sadly the story of my faith journey. I never really want to make the sacrifices but I do it and Christ brings the grace until I want it. I’m a guilt ridden mess but when I do the things He is the one that makes it a sacred sacrifice by using it to turn me to him after much stubbornness on my part.
There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there is perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.
00:40:02 In Nibley’s translation of the “Joseph Smith Papyri”, which Nibley claims gives us a good peak at he Adamic endowment, or close to it (as the Egyptians sought to mimic the order of the “fathers”), there’s not really a scene of the Eve character partaking of a fruit, so to speak. Instead, she is brought a book, which, upon reading, enters duality into existence. In other texts, the Ished/Persea tree splits in two, likely representing this harsh ushering in of duality into being, replacing the previous innocence. Firstly, reading this brings an entirely new, fascinating take on the Book of Mormon being a temple text. I mean, for goodness sake, look at what Nephi says are our “codes” for understanding the Book of Mormon…the “language of the Egyptians…”, going back to Egypt to seek the records upon which the text, likely, or Joseph is written…a temple text. Egyptian. Sheesh. But viewing the scene of Even partaking of a fruit as being interchangeable with “reading of a text”, ushering in a “knowledge of good and evil” gives such an interesting insight into what was going on there. Satan, probably disguising himself as Jehova (beguiling), convinces Eve to read of the most good and the most evil that will exist, or has existed, and gives her a knowledge of her posterity’s potential for evil, but of the redeeming promise or a Savior, causing them to rejoice. Then Satan, now exposed because their eyes are opened, tells them that they’re naked (exposed to the full measure of the laws of justice), which causes them to want to hide from the Just God who would later visit them again. Anyway, this is all somewhat speculative, but piecing together these things brings with it some interesting insights into the point y’all are making there.
OH, and in several of the funeral texts/rituals, when the tree is split, out of it emerges one of the gods, whom, I believe is correlative with the Jehova character in our mystery stories. (A little fuzzy on this one, gonna double check on that, but if it’s accurate, that’s such an interesting piece of symbolism, giving significant insights into our own rituals)
00:50:10 Looking closely at Jacob’s definitions of resurrection, and Samuel the Lamanite’s, Zeezrom asking about the resurrection is very likely him asking about the literal restoration of spirit to body.
What a dream team. Just Cam missing. I want to say thank you. Takes a lot of your time. I appreciate being a fly on the wall in these in-depth discussions of yours which have obviously been going on for many years. Thank you for letting us listen in! I love how you can disagree without being disagreeable. Love the references to great literature and the in-depth doctrine. Your points are so well considered and articulated. I wish I had a little team to spiritually spa with too! I agree that the gospel is a very serious business, as the pioneers and many others have discovered. Their testimonies were forged in the fire of great physical and emotional hardship and affliction. Can anyone blame Emma for refusing to embark on the final exodus to Utah? I've never known physical hardship (yet) but I've really been through the fire the last 15 years. It's been the makings of me. I'm a different person. New heart. New birth. I pray I'll stay faithful if I'm asked to give the ultimate sacrifice. And I never rule out the possibility. The time of (the ultimate) sacrifice hasn't passed, but probably lies ahead for some. We profess to be saints after all!
The plan of Salvation is a trust. The Savior is the trustee and the beneficiary of the trust. He shares his inheritance with us according to the stipulations of the trust. Though we satisfy the stipulations of the trust, the benefits of the trust are still a gift. It is not earned.
Brother Joseph should have said attorneys not lawyers, back then there was a difference. Attorneys hail from the City of London. They still do. Every man should be a lawyer. Chapter 10, lawyer warning, chapter 11 real money defined, Everything in Mormons record was for us. Nothing but gold or silver can satisfy any debt in any state according to the Federal Constitution
1:20:00 there is something collective and generational as well to salvation. The fathers sought after blessings for their posterity, and the children should look to the covenants of the fathers. Why has this been so little understood, or even noticed?
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Love Todd. He explains incredible principles without pride. Always letting others speak and then humbly teaching with power.
It's always great to see Todd back on the videos on this channel!
Loved this!! Wish it could be longer! Great insights! ❤
Took so many important notes. The discussion towards the end regarding the cost and price of walking that ascending path of Christ’s Order and the excruciating nature of it-the wrenching of our very heartstrings-this has been my lived and visceral experience of the last several years. I have been taught by the Spirit many of these same concepts and principles, but personally and in isolation, so it feels so important to hear others voicing my lived experience and this very real, painful AND sacred path and process. It is real, it is true, it is treacherous and it is of the most sacred and sublime reward🙏 Bless each of you for your thoughts, experiences and sharings❤️
Incidentally, I also love your frequent references to Bonds That Make Us Free by Terry Warner. I was a psych undergrad at byu in ‘97/98 when I first read that book in it’s initial manuscript form and it has been profoundly paradigm shifting, and continues to impact me to this day. One of my favorite books❤️
You can do what you’re asked and obey and be mad about it and have a bad attitude about it but if you keep doing it then your heart will start to soften and your sacrifice will become willing and loving. This is sadly the story of my faith journey. I never really want to make the sacrifices but I do it and Christ brings the grace until I want it. I’m a guilt ridden mess but when I do the things He is the one that makes it a sacred sacrifice by using it to turn me to him after much stubbornness on my part.
One of your best discussions to date. Can't wait for next week.
Great discussion! It has given me much to ponder. Thank you!
There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there is perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.
00:40:02
In Nibley’s translation of the “Joseph Smith Papyri”, which Nibley claims gives us a good peak at he Adamic endowment, or close to it (as the Egyptians sought to mimic the order of the “fathers”), there’s not really a scene of the Eve character partaking of a fruit, so to speak.
Instead, she is brought a book, which, upon reading, enters duality into existence. In other texts, the Ished/Persea tree splits in two, likely representing this harsh ushering in of duality into being, replacing the previous innocence.
Firstly, reading this brings an entirely new, fascinating take on the Book of Mormon being a temple text. I mean, for goodness sake, look at what Nephi says are our “codes” for understanding the Book of Mormon…the “language of the Egyptians…”, going back to Egypt to seek the records upon which the text, likely, or Joseph is written…a temple text. Egyptian. Sheesh.
But viewing the scene of Even partaking of a fruit as being interchangeable with “reading of a text”, ushering in a “knowledge of good and evil” gives such an interesting insight into what was going on there. Satan, probably disguising himself as Jehova (beguiling), convinces Eve to read of the most good and the most evil that will exist, or has existed, and gives her a knowledge of her posterity’s potential for evil, but of the redeeming promise or a Savior, causing them to rejoice.
Then Satan, now exposed because their eyes are opened, tells them that they’re naked (exposed to the full measure of the laws of justice), which causes them to want to hide from the Just God who would later visit them again.
Anyway, this is all somewhat speculative, but piecing together these things brings with it some interesting insights into the point y’all are making there.
OH, and in several of the funeral texts/rituals, when the tree is split, out of it emerges one of the gods, whom, I believe is correlative with the Jehova character in our mystery stories.
(A little fuzzy on this one, gonna double check on that, but if it’s accurate, that’s such an interesting piece of symbolism, giving significant insights into our own rituals)
Wow, this was incredible. What a feast.
00:50:10
Looking closely at Jacob’s definitions of resurrection, and Samuel the Lamanite’s, Zeezrom asking about the resurrection is very likely him asking about the literal restoration of spirit to body.
Alma 40 seems to be an elaboration on this “mystery” as it relates to the literal resurrection.
What a dream team. Just Cam missing. I want to say thank you. Takes a lot of your time. I appreciate being a fly on the wall in these in-depth discussions of yours which have obviously been going on for many years. Thank you for letting us listen in! I love how you can disagree without being disagreeable. Love the references to great literature and the in-depth doctrine. Your points are so well considered and articulated. I wish I had a little team to spiritually spa with too! I agree that the gospel is a very serious business, as the pioneers and many others have discovered. Their testimonies were forged in the fire of great physical and emotional hardship and affliction. Can anyone blame Emma for refusing to embark on the final exodus to Utah? I've never known physical hardship (yet) but I've really been through the fire the last 15 years. It's been the makings of me. I'm a different person. New heart. New birth. I pray I'll stay faithful if I'm asked to give the ultimate sacrifice. And I never rule out the possibility. The time of (the ultimate) sacrifice hasn't passed, but probably lies ahead for some. We profess to be saints after all!
The plan of Salvation is a trust. The Savior is the trustee and the beneficiary of the trust. He shares his inheritance with us according to the stipulations of the trust. Though we satisfy the stipulations of the trust, the benefits of the trust are still a gift. It is not earned.
Brother Joseph should have said attorneys not lawyers, back then there was a difference. Attorneys hail from the City of London. They still do. Every man should be a lawyer. Chapter 10, lawyer warning, chapter 11 real money defined, Everything in Mormons record was for us. Nothing but gold or silver can satisfy any debt in any state according to the Federal Constitution
1:20:00 there is something collective and generational as well to salvation. The fathers sought after blessings for their posterity, and the children should look to the covenants of the fathers. Why has this been so little understood, or even noticed?