My mechanical device is midline attachable but I totally agree with you brother! It is not that important for the midline attachable myth to be so credited. If you are a good climber and have pre thought your root system throughout the canopy you will never have to take your mechanical device off that line. This is a great review and it is very truthful thank you very much for taking the time and being honest knowing you are one of the best climbers around it's great to hear that midline attachable is not all that in a bag of chips.
Come to think, you're right. It's detachable from your harness which is practically the same to advance a SRT tie in point off a basal anchor- you still need to pull rope through or just advance the TIP with a sling or cambium saver. Very occasionally it might be a bit difficult to get the device itself through a higher crotch, and if not possible that could potentially require a bit more thinking re later retrieval of gear or rope point.
Hi Dan, George here. I want a zig-zag. No more crusty hitch cords. I trust my hitch cords. I will trust my zig-zag too. I have watched some break tests too and they are tough enough to trust. I too, think I will like a solid one not a swivel. I like things the same way each time I reach for them. Thank you for the video. You put alot of good thought into your videos. Right on, George.
I’ve got two Zigzag’s for two rope use. I absolutely love them wouldn’t be without one now. I tend to extend my bridge and pull directly through it or for fast ascent I use a foot ascender and two foot up with one foot free to get around obstacles etc.
Benn using the Chicane and ZZ for a few months now. First time I’ve properly dived into SRT so have no experience of other devices but I am pretty much climbing every tree SRT with the Chicane. So the to bad points you mentioned I would agree on. For example when working at the top of a broadleaf tree when you can be fairly flat from your anchor point trying to descend the ZZ can be difficult which isn’t ideal when in awkward positions. I have encountered a few times when I first started using the chicane go back through natural redirects can cause the chicane and ZZ into postions where side loading would be occurring. I’ve tackled this by a bit more experience now in choosing my re directs and using slings and krabs. On the whole though I’m extremely happy with the Chicane, it’s really smooth and works a dream and has really opened up my eyes to SRT. I’ve used the ZZ for 4 years on DRT and as you said there’s nothing better. Paired with ART rope guide the tending is silky smooth.
I like the Petzl Chicane, ordered one after trying out a friend´s. At the end of the day another good tool in the box. Not the be all and end all, but resilient and tough and does a good job. That´s good enough for me.
I agree bro, there are many tools to do the same job and slightly different variations of the job. The Zigzag is super smooth and predictable, I love it for that reason and the reduced wear and tear on the shoulder due to how smooth it is.
I love how easy you can add or remove the chicane. To address the problem of paying slack out in a walk, I sometimes just undo the wrench part (keep it attached to the zigzag but off the rope). This may be frowned upon by some. I suppose in the case of a fall or an awkward position, you could have a hard time reattaching the chicane to the rope.
Love your videos. One of the best, possibly the best, for reviewing equipment, methods, situations. Just very good overall. I have been considering getting a mechanical prusik such as the zigzag but have not yet pulled the trigger. I use the Rope Wrench and like it and was considering adding the Zigzag for SRT. Have been reviewing the Hitch Hiker X by Richard Mumford and really like it's simplicity. Keep the videos coming.
I know this is 2 years old but, just wondering which way you went. I have the HHX and love it! Now, Im looking at zigzag plus for dealing with pitch/sap. Cheers from the US!
I did switch over. Or I'll say incorporate it into my daily climb. I still however do use my hitch climber pulley system. All in all I'm only 2 min into video, I was just answering the topic question. But as always I'm sure I'm in for quality content. Thanks for all you do man🤙😎
Finally got my zigzags, chicane and foot ascender, just waiting on petzl ok biners to be delivered so can’t use the chicane yet, Iv not climbed with them yet but can tell their going to be amazing just by putting them on my ropes (11.7mm Marlow vega) can feel their going to self tend once there’s enough rope fed through.
I bought one and some new petzl 12.5 control rope. I really had to struggle to get the new rope through the catch with the yellow cord which was cutting into my boot. In and out twice it was better but I have got a 11.6 rope to use now. Wasn't expecting it to be so tight.
Nice in depth review. This is one of the two mechanical prusik devices I've been trying to decide upon (the other is the rock exotica unicender). I liked how you covered the pros, cons, and MRT vs. SRT with the zig-zag. If you've had any experience on the unicender, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that too. I enjoy your videos, they are very informative. Climb safe.
Nice video mate, there’s a modification you can do to be able to collapse the chicane and zigzag system one handed better then the technique you showed, grab a cambium saver retrieve ball, and attach it to the back of the chicane by where the screw is... Wish I could post a photo to explain it better but it does mean slightly unscrewing one of the screws to wrap the cherry ball then tightening the screw back up.. once tight again the cherry hangs right by the top link of the zigzag which means it’s easy to pull down on the cherry and touch the top link Hope this makes sense
Good info Dan, thanks. Seems like they focused on precision and ergonomics to good effect. However it does also look bulky and rigid. The extra friction/limb walk issue is definitely a downside, especially for the type of climber who relies very much on momentum and balance at wide line angles. Twice the issue then for those effected 2 rope silliness thats being enforced in the UK. Did you mention the cost, I may have missed that bit ?
Cheers for the comments Reg. I didn't mention the cost, that part I forgot, it is an expense up front, but if you are safety conscious and change your hitch out when you should, I think in the end the zigzags price seems reasonable, especially as it is so much smoother to climb on. I actually don't find the size is a bad thing in anyway, how do you see it? Working on 2 zigzag/chicanes for the UK requirements would be near on impossible to get the shit to move, I agree with you on that.
@@ClimbingArboristwith the chicane the set up looks massive from here. But I haven't used it be too judgemental. Hard to say if this is progress or not. Would like to see one being used in a working situation, if you get an opportunity. Might be a good part2 on this vid
@@Recoates You can see me working on the ZigZag/Chicane here th-cam.com/video/JQXWlqYUZTQ/w-d-xo.html , Not sure how much you will see but I find the device looks big, but once its actually on the rope and in use, the size doesn't really affect the usability
Im pretty new to climbing in general. Been on a zigzag plus from day one drt, picked up a chicane and never looked back using srt 95% of the time. Love it. Only words of caution I have are make sure you are grabbing the chains with your fingers in between the links and do not just simply tap the top of the links. In the summer it doesn’t seem to have any issues but in the winter (sometimes -30c)frozen and wet conditions I found the zigzag/chicane would start releasing but would hold me until it just freefalls. Scary as shit the first day that happened. Looking back I was not putting my fingers against the chains, that seems to fix that issue of being sticky and dropping suddenly. Top few chain sections would collapse, leaving the chicane and two links holding me until it would drop me suddenly. It will catch you but its quite jerky when that happens. I must add im using a yale imori rope which is not a recommended rope to be using from petzl. As for the side loading issues ive got the plus version with the lower swivel. Never had any side loading, just spin it 90 degrees. Even when working in conifers I simply choke my srt around the trunk as I chunk out the tree. I find if i spin my choked anchor to the 3 or 9 o’clock position rather then directly in front its actually quite nice and holds you solid 100% of the time. Feels safer then any other method I’ve tried. I give it 95/100 👍 (-5 for the overall length of the srt setup, but it has to be that way)
I've been right on the edge of getting one of these. I had a removal of a large Western Juniper last week and the sap of these trees is the most tacky, nasty stuff of any tree I've yet to climb. It causes my prusik to lock up no matter what style of prusik I have tried. I climb old school Double rope and am looking forward to something better, thanks for the review:)
with that last point you made regarding the chicanes rigidness and how it could be damaged via redirects... couldnt you just use the standard rope wrench on the zig zag?
As soon as you started to say how this video was "brought to you by Honey Bro's", I immediately thought how awesome it is that you're getting sponsors. You obviously started Climbing Arborist out of passion to share you're knowledge but you've brought a ton of knowledge to people who just started in the industry (like myself). Good for you for making some money on the side will giving great content still.
Hey dude, I really appreciate your comments and your acknowledgement of my dedication to growing the site out of my own passion for sharing my knowledge with others. It's really nice to hear a positive attitude about it being sponsored rather than a negative. Big props to you 🙏
I don’t use the swivelled zigzag either for the same reason. I was worried I’d made a bad decision on that but it’s good to see you like it for that reason.
Great review and exactly what i was searching for. I'll buy one of these to go with the new rope you're giving away at the end of the year... if i win 😉. I've been watching your podcasts lately and I'm digging those too, bud. I was climbing today and thought about the latest podcast i watched with your buddy on his first climb.
This might seem odd or even funny, but I once used a Grigri, the slack end goes up to a hand grip ascended with a small pulley. So I just pull down to go up. When descending I remove the handgrip ascender and pulley and just use the GriGri.
I’ve thought about doing this with my petzl Grillion (same thing as the grigri), I’m assuming it will work well with a 24 or 26 strand 11.7 climbing rope? I’ll have to try it out. Could just use a redirect for ascending with a RollClip pulley carabiner and a prusik.
It looked like you had it on a "yale 16 strand fire." What are your thoughts on what ropes to best use the zigzag/chicane SRT on. Thanks for all the great videos, they really help.
It's on the Petzl Flow rope in the video. I personally would never use a 13mm rope with the zigzag. I love the Yale 11.7mm series of ropes, Blue moon etc...
@@ClimbingArboristJust by my own experience, I find it to be more more efficient and easier to traverse through the trees... on certain occasions double rope is useful, but most of the time is pure SRT.
Midline attachability allows for mire options when canopy anchoring in my opinion. I love the zigzag but am not someone who ever takes it off the rope therefore making it harder to canopy anchor.
@@ludwigkranzlein9893 I understand where you are coming from, personally I used double rope for more than 16 years, but after using SRT for the past 3 years, I definitely will use SRT for most of my climbing,... from ascending into the tree to all the redirects you can do when trimming... It's just awesome... I wish srt it would have been around when I started climbing trees 22 years ago.
Are you using a long carabiner in drt? I started using the zigzag and found with fishermans knot terminal, it often catches on the knot. Using a Petzl Ok carabiner. Could resolve by getting a spliced eye in the rope. But wondered if there is a different solution to prevent that happening.
If I were to own one rope only it would be Blue moon, it is great for access, SRS, MRS, great diameter. drenaline is great for MRS with the zigzag, super smooth. For SRS has more stretch/bounce than blue moon
@@ClimbingArborist Thanks for the detailed response, I saw drenaline was also popular but the few available on treestuff have pretty low MBS and also that the drenaline ropes don't like natural crotches from what I've heard. I'll probably make my dedicated ZZ rope the blue moon for now.
so your climbing double rope with the zigzag would you put a swivel on the zigzag or your bridge? not wanting to clutter up the bridge with two much as need two rings on there? also how do you feel about the ascent and Ascentree for double rope over the chicane? (with a foot ascender of course) thanks! keep the vids coming bro!!!
Torn between the zig zag and the hitch climber (climbing DRT), what would you recomend for a relatively new climber going straight from a prussic? Great video by the way, think I've watched all your videos over the past week!
For a new climber I would lean towards the hitch climber and hitch cord. After 19 years in the industry I still use this combo regularly. I is the best all round system. The zigzag is amazing but on removals it can be a little annoying. Also getting a good feel of a hitch and tying it regularly are by podcasts of using the hitch climber which develop much needed skills as an arborist.
Good review - congrats - save a significant omission was not to talk about rope diameter and ZZ. You'd expect a device like this to be sensitive to this variable and it is. Although rated up to 13mm, I had the strong impression it doesn't like the upper end of the range: I've had a ZZ for ~3yr and initial experience with 12.8mm XTC+ was frustrating - a fiddle to thread the device and it wouldn't self-tend until a great weight of rope below it. But different altogether with 11.7mm: Blue Tongue and Stein Mantra have both been brilliant. Petzl will have known about this property of ZZ and it deserves to be mentioned before purchase - not left to be discovered afterwards. I also had a rubbish response from Petzl UK when I approached them early on for recommendations on attachment methods for a second system - as with hitchclimber's third hole. No mention of "We didn't think of that" or "We're developing a new version to address this". Or even "Use a second bridge". Instead a cordial but useless "You're on your own". Fortunately the new ZZ+ works well as primary attachment with old ZZ attached as secondary system, but Petzl's attitude came as a big disappointment to me.
Good review 👍 I got two zigzags and a chicane coming next week, currently on hitch’s with pulleys but since the 2 rope rule I’m finding friction horrendous on two ropes and finding limb jumps a bit of a hit and miss because my hitchs don’t work well sharing loads. I’m hoping the zigzags will smooth things out. I do also like to bomb out the tree now and then when the jobs done 😂 . Iv always wanted to go srt aswel so being on a 2nd drt line might give me the reassurance I need to get use to srt.
Climbing Arborist it’s is and it’s one of many problems I’m noticing, it’s annoying because I would risk assess two lines into a job when needed, shouldn’t be risk assessing them out! I’m still trying to work out what’s best for me and it’s looking like it’s going to be srt. There’s just too much rope moving on the ground picking up twigs and knoting two ropes together with drt.
Just tried my new zigzag today. My 13mm rope no chance of fitting. Teufelberger Tvee 12.5mm just about fits. Gonna poss try some 11.7mm. Finding ascent tricky as another dude stated. Pantin helped a bit but i am not a fan of them. Poss a hand ascender and footloop next- if it don't clash. Top video👍
It is not recommended, Petzl say the way the chicane is loaded and applies friction is different so the wrench means more pressure on the zigzag and causes more stress on the lower links I believe. The Chicane's one and only purpose is to run with the zigzag so that is what should be used.
i agree a life changer. have been using zig zag for about 7 years 3rd gen. tree guy. mid line attachment. who cares i have never needed to take any climbing system apart in the tree. haven't bought a hitch cord in years. would like petzel to make mid line attachment for zillion. i like having both end of my lanyard spliced. And although i am capable of splicing all my own rope. it would be nice just to throw a new one in there. Owner Arborsense Tree.
Hi Dan, Have you climbed on a Rope Runner? If so, would you rather work SRT on a Rope Runner or Zigzag/Chicane? I have a Rope Runner and plan to get a Zigzag for DRT and was wondering if a Chicane would be a necessity if I already have a Runner?
if you told me you would come straight down from a 100-foot tall tree without branches with the zigzag and chincane my question would be answered. thanks !
Not Dan here. You can tend this in 4 different ways (maybe more) first is pull on the rope above the device to pull yourself in. Second is pull below the device and slide the whole lot up. This is painfully slow. Third is push away from yourself in line with the pulley below giving you 2/1 advantage. 4th is easiest for drt users. Clip a hand ascender above your rope somewhere, use two caribiners with integrated pulleys one on hand ascender and one on your belt, pass the tail end of zig zag rope through both and pull down, this is about twice as as easy as normal drt tending. To go beyond your hand ascender simply slide it up the srt line every few pulls. Great if you’re exhausted.
Are you still thinking midline detatachability isn't that important? Maybe on crane jobs and I suppose you can make it work on removals but got trims especially and I find in removals even midline detachibility is essential to maximize the height of your tie in or rather maximize it's ability to be supporting you vertically.
Wonderful video thank you question for you you trust the zigzag a 100% without a question of a doubt I recently bought one I've always used a Blake's hitch being that it's mechanical I worry
have you climbed the spiderjack 3 yet? and how does it do in comparison to the zigzag in drt? ive been climbing with the zigzag for quite some time and havent got my hand on a spiderjack 3.
I like the chain too. Things that are midline attachable, are also midline de-tachable. detaching midline is one of my only threats to my safety as a climber. Just sayin, in my simple mind, I feel better knowing that my system can not be detached mid line.
never handled a Zigzag before. your "issue" with collapsing the links with the Chicane, is it possible to "relieve" this using a shorter biner (e.g. DMM PerfectO) for attaching the Chicane? surely Petzl only allows the OK, but fuck it - if the Chicane cannot touch the links in normal operation and you "wrestling" it down to pay out rope fast is getting easier, why not?
Hey, is it ideal for singlerope without chicane. I need more for canopy anchors. I think I will order Petzl zickzack for me. My ropediameter is 11.5. will that work with zickzack?
Thank's for that useful review. Do you have any experience with the SpiderJack? I been climbing with SJ and rope guide for a little while and I am really looking forward to trying the ZZ this coming season. I guess all devices have pros and cons. Enjoy your reviews!
Great Video man !! I know its not the subject but, I was wondering, what are you using as a throw line or what is one of the best, if not, the best throw line in your opinion ?
Ok, so I just switched from a Blake’s hitch split tail system to a monkeybeaver with a zigzag. I found ascent impossible. I bought a rope grab with a rolling carabiner to ascend. Although it makes it easier to pull my weight up, it seems to take forever to ascend. I wonder if I even ascend quicker hip thrusting with a Blake’s. Any advice?
Hard to give advice without seeing exactly what you are doing and how you have your system set up. Find another local arborist that is a competent climber with this equipment and they should be able to give you some tips
From the Petzl website. “As previously announced, the new version of the ZIGZAG will be available in mid-January 2014. A summary of all changes made to the product can be viewed here. If you still own a ZIGZAG affected by the recall (serial number below 13108******), we request that you immediately contact the After-Sales Service in your country to take advantage of the standard exchange procedure for your ZIGZAG. All costs will be covered by Petzl.”
@@alltree78 most of the times, I would agree ;) A local (CH) dealer sent me a letter containing two new screws / threaded pins for Petzl MGO-open's I bought more than a year ago back then. Apparently there was a recall given out by Petzl and the dealer then preventatively checked their database, ordered replacement (fixed) screws and sent them out. I'd not expect this level of service from every dealer though!
I don't know why anyone climbs on a hitch anymore i started climbing on a zz in 2018 after being a skeptic and now climb on the zz and chicane I am just waiting for the unicender 2 to get released properly then I'll probably switch to that I found the problem also with tight crotchs and getting the chicane through being the only gripe
Anyone use the zig zag with a rope wrench for SRT? You’d think with the tether and maybe a quickie to attach it would work. Likely not recommend though. Anyone try this?
Some people do, but Petzl say they have seen issue with wrench and zigzag as the wrench puts more stress on the zigzag than the chicane does and has caused hairline cracks over time
My mechanical device is midline attachable but I totally agree with you brother! It is not that important for the midline attachable myth to be so credited.
If you are a good climber and have pre thought your root system throughout the canopy you will never have to take your mechanical device off that line. This is a great review and it is very truthful thank you very much for taking the time and being honest knowing you are one of the best climbers around it's great to hear that midline attachable is not all that in a bag of chips.
Come to think, you're right. It's detachable from your harness which is practically the same to advance a SRT tie in point off a basal anchor- you still need to pull rope through or just advance the TIP with a sling or cambium saver.
Very occasionally it might be a bit difficult to get the device itself through a higher crotch, and if not possible that could potentially require a bit more thinking re later retrieval of gear or rope point.
Im mostly in agreement with you, i climb 100% of the time on my zig zag. I absolutely love it!
Thanks dude, appreciate your comment
I agree mate. Love the zigzag.
Hi Dan, George here. I want a zig-zag. No more crusty hitch cords. I trust my hitch cords. I will trust my zig-zag too. I have watched some break tests too and they are tough enough to trust. I too, think I will like a solid one not a swivel. I like things the same way each time I reach for them. Thank you for the video. You put alot of good thought into your videos. Right on, George.
Hey George, the zigzag is absolutely brilliant, I hope you get one
Mid line attachments, passing through crotches and side loading are important factors that hasn't persuaded me yet.
I’ve got two Zigzag’s for two rope use. I absolutely love them wouldn’t be without one now. I tend to extend my bridge and pull directly through it or for fast ascent I use a foot ascender and two foot up with one foot free to get around obstacles etc.
Do you think the swivel is worth the extra weight and bulk?
Benn using the Chicane and ZZ for a few months now. First time I’ve properly dived into SRT so have no experience of other devices but I am pretty much climbing every tree SRT with the Chicane.
So the to bad points you mentioned I would agree on. For example when working at the top of a broadleaf tree when you can be fairly flat from your anchor point trying to descend the ZZ can be difficult which isn’t ideal when in awkward positions.
I have encountered a few times when I first started using the chicane go back through natural redirects can cause the chicane and ZZ into postions where side loading would be occurring. I’ve tackled this by a bit more experience now in choosing my re directs and using slings and krabs.
On the whole though I’m extremely happy with the Chicane, it’s really smooth and works a dream and has really opened up my eyes to SRT. I’ve used the ZZ for 4 years on DRT and as you said there’s nothing better. Paired with ART rope guide the tending is silky smooth.
Thanks dude, appreciate your in-depth comments
I like the Petzl Chicane, ordered one after trying out a friend´s. At the end of the day another good tool in the box. Not the be all and end all, but resilient and tough and does a good job. That´s good enough for me.
I agree bro, there are many tools to do the same job and slightly different variations of the job. The Zigzag is super smooth and predictable, I love it for that reason and the reduced wear and tear on the shoulder due to how smooth it is.
I love how easy you can add or remove the chicane. To address the problem of paying slack out in a walk, I sometimes just undo the wrench part (keep it attached to the zigzag but off the rope). This may be frowned upon by some. I suppose in the case of a fall or an awkward position, you could have a hard time reattaching the chicane to the rope.
Love your videos. One of the best, possibly the best, for reviewing equipment, methods, situations. Just very good overall. I have been considering getting a mechanical prusik such as the zigzag but have not yet pulled the trigger. I use the Rope Wrench and like it and was considering adding the Zigzag for SRT. Have been reviewing the Hitch Hiker X by Richard Mumford and really like it's simplicity. Keep the videos coming.
I know this is 2 years old but, just wondering which way you went. I have the HHX and love it! Now, Im looking at zigzag plus for dealing with pitch/sap. Cheers from the US!
I did switch over. Or I'll say incorporate it into my daily climb. I still however do use my hitch climber pulley system. All in all I'm only 2 min into video, I was just answering the topic question. But as always I'm sure I'm in for quality content. Thanks for all you do man🤙😎
Finally got my zigzags, chicane and foot ascender, just waiting on petzl ok biners to be delivered so can’t use the chicane yet, Iv not climbed with them yet but can tell their going to be amazing just by putting them on my ropes (11.7mm Marlow vega) can feel their going to self tend once there’s enough rope fed through.
I bought one and some new petzl 12.5 control rope. I really had to struggle to get the new rope through the catch with the yellow cord which was cutting into my boot. In and out twice it was better but I have got a 11.6 rope to use now. Wasn't expecting it to be so tight.
Nice in depth review. This is one of the two mechanical prusik devices I've been trying to decide upon (the other is the rock exotica unicender). I liked how you covered the pros, cons, and MRT vs. SRT with the zig-zag. If you've had any experience on the unicender, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that too. I enjoy your videos, they are very informative. Climb safe.
Dan ,thank you for all of the fantastic videos you do.the zig zag is a phenomenal piece of gear I love it
Great video Brother I’ve been thinking about getting the zigzag and the chicane and you just convinced me. 👍
Nice video mate, there’s a modification you can do to be able to collapse the chicane and zigzag system one handed better then the technique you showed, grab a cambium saver retrieve ball, and attach it to the back of the chicane by where the screw is...
Wish I could post a photo to explain it better but it does mean slightly unscrewing one of the screws to wrap the cherry ball then tightening the screw back up.. once tight again the cherry hangs right by the top link of the zigzag which means it’s easy to pull down on the cherry and touch the top link
Hope this makes sense
Thanks for that tip, I might look at doing that
Man your reviews are top notch! Thanks!
Thanks man, I really appreciate your comment. I try and give my best, unbiased opinion on these products through my own experiences
Good info Dan, thanks. Seems like they focused on precision and ergonomics to good effect. However it does also look bulky and rigid. The extra friction/limb walk issue is definitely a downside, especially for the type of climber who relies very much on momentum and balance at wide line angles. Twice the issue then for those effected 2 rope silliness thats being enforced in the UK. Did you mention the cost, I may have missed that bit ?
Cheers for the comments Reg. I didn't mention the cost, that part I forgot, it is an expense up front, but if you are safety conscious and change your hitch out when you should, I think in the end the zigzags price seems reasonable, especially as it is so much smoother to climb on.
I actually don't find the size is a bad thing in anyway, how do you see it?
Working on 2 zigzag/chicanes for the UK requirements would be near on impossible to get the shit to move, I agree with you on that.
@@ClimbingArboristwith the chicane the set up looks massive from here. But I haven't used it be too judgemental. Hard to say if this is progress or not. Would like to see one being used in a working situation, if you get an opportunity. Might be a good part2 on this vid
@@Recoates You can see me working on the ZigZag/Chicane here th-cam.com/video/JQXWlqYUZTQ/w-d-xo.html , Not sure how much you will see but I find the device looks big, but once its actually on the rope and in use, the size doesn't really affect the usability
Im pretty new to climbing in general. Been on a zigzag plus from day one drt, picked up a chicane and never looked back using srt 95% of the time. Love it.
Only words of caution I have are make sure you are grabbing the chains with your fingers in between the links and do not just simply tap the top of the links. In the summer it doesn’t seem to have any issues but in the winter (sometimes -30c)frozen and wet conditions I found the zigzag/chicane would start releasing but would hold me until it just freefalls. Scary as shit the first day that happened. Looking back I was not putting my fingers against the chains, that seems to fix that issue of being sticky and dropping suddenly. Top few chain sections would collapse, leaving the chicane and two links holding me until it would drop me suddenly. It will catch you but its quite jerky when that happens.
I must add im using a yale imori rope which is not a recommended rope to be using from petzl.
As for the side loading issues ive got the plus version with the lower swivel. Never had any side loading, just spin it 90 degrees. Even when working in conifers I simply choke my srt around the trunk as I chunk out the tree. I find if i spin my choked anchor to the 3 or 9 o’clock position rather then directly in front its actually quite nice and holds you solid 100% of the time. Feels safer then any other method I’ve tried.
I give it 95/100 👍 (-5 for the overall length of the srt setup, but it has to be that way)
Thanks dude, appreciate your in-depth comments!
I've been right on the edge of getting one of these. I had a removal of a large Western Juniper last week and the sap of these trees is the most tacky, nasty stuff of any tree I've yet to climb. It causes my prusik to lock up no matter what style of prusik I have tried. I climb old school Double rope and am looking forward to something better, thanks for the review:)
How did you get on with the sappy trees when you tried the zig zag?
with that last point you made regarding the chicanes rigidness and how it could be damaged via redirects... couldnt you just use the standard rope wrench on the zig zag?
Never tried any of the mechanical prusiks but I'm seriously trying to decide on which one to buy first thx for the info
As soon as you started to say how this video was "brought to you by Honey Bro's", I immediately thought how awesome it is that you're getting sponsors. You obviously started Climbing Arborist out of passion to share you're knowledge but you've brought a ton of knowledge to people who just started in the industry (like myself). Good for you for making some money on the side will giving great content still.
Hey dude, I really appreciate your comments and your acknowledgement of my dedication to growing the site out of my own passion for sharing my knowledge with others. It's really nice to hear a positive attitude about it being sponsored rather than a negative. Big props to you 🙏
I don’t use the swivelled zigzag either for the same reason. I was worried I’d made a bad decision on that but it’s good to see you like it for that reason.
I personally don't see a benefit, but many others do see a benefit, it's personal preference I think.
Great review and exactly what i was searching for. I'll buy one of these to go with the new rope you're giving away at the end of the year... if i win 😉. I've been watching your podcasts lately and I'm digging those too, bud. I was climbing today and thought about the latest podcast i watched with your buddy on his first climb.
I've never done SRT. Why is the Chicane needed?
This might seem odd or even funny, but I once used a Grigri, the slack end goes up to a hand grip ascended with a small pulley. So I just pull down to go up. When descending I remove the handgrip ascender and pulley and just use the GriGri.
I’ve thought about doing this with my petzl Grillion (same thing as the grigri), I’m assuming it will work well with a 24 or 26 strand 11.7 climbing rope? I’ll have to try it out. Could just use a redirect for ascending with a RollClip pulley carabiner and a prusik.
It looked like you had it on a "yale 16 strand fire." What are your thoughts on what ropes to best use the zigzag/chicane SRT on. Thanks for all the great videos, they really help.
It's on the Petzl Flow rope in the video. I personally would never use a 13mm rope with the zigzag. I love the Yale 11.7mm series of ropes, Blue moon etc...
I just got Blue Moon for my Petzl RAD system
I love the zig zag setup but currently climb on hitch hiker x for SRT
Certainly not a bad choice
@@ClimbingArborist the hitch hiker was remade by Richard Mumford climbing innovations
I think people underestimate how good the zigzag and chicane setup is.
I agree
I don’t underestimate the kit it’s saved me time and hassle plus saved me money. I love them.
Midline attachable is the only way to go here in my country, but I really like this device. thx for the review brother👍
Why do you feel so strongly about midline attachable?
@@ClimbingArboristJust by my own experience, I find it to be more more efficient and easier to traverse through the trees... on certain occasions double rope is useful, but most of the time is pure SRT.
Midline attachability allows for mire options when canopy anchoring in my opinion. I love the zigzag but am not someone who ever takes it off the rope therefore making it harder to canopy anchor.
@@ludwigkranzlein9893 I understand where you are coming from, personally I used double rope for more than 16 years, but after using SRT for the past 3 years, I definitely will use SRT for most of my climbing,... from ascending into the tree to all the redirects you can do when trimming... It's just awesome... I wish srt it would have been around when I started climbing trees 22 years ago.
You can own more than one rope...
Just brought that set up.havent used it yet.but thanks for sharing your experience with these products .
No problem dude, enjoy the devices
You sold me. Ordered one, ...man Scott Forrest was neat in that video.
Are you using a long
carabiner in drt? I started using the zigzag and found with fishermans knot terminal, it often catches on the knot. Using a Petzl Ok
carabiner. Could resolve by getting a spliced eye in the rope. But wondered if there is a different solution to prevent that happening.
DRT zig zag set wropewrench srt that's my advice too mate
What are the best ropes you've run on the ZZ SRT or MRT
I'm thinking of getting the blue moon. Seems to be the most versatile and popular.
Drenaline is soo smooth with MRT
If I were to own one rope only it would be Blue moon, it is great for access, SRS, MRS, great diameter. drenaline is great for MRS with the zigzag, super smooth. For SRS has more stretch/bounce than blue moon
@@ClimbingArborist Thanks for the detailed response, I saw drenaline was also popular but the few available on treestuff have pretty low MBS and also that the drenaline ropes don't like natural crotches from what I've heard. I'll probably make my dedicated ZZ rope the blue moon for now.
so your climbing double rope with the zigzag would you put a swivel on the zigzag or your bridge? not wanting to clutter up the bridge with two much as need two rings on there? also how do you feel about the ascent and Ascentree for double rope over the chicane? (with a foot ascender of course) thanks! keep the vids coming bro!!!
Torn between the zig zag and the hitch climber (climbing DRT), what would you recomend for a relatively new climber going straight from a prussic? Great video by the way, think I've watched all your videos over the past week!
For a new climber I would lean towards the hitch climber and hitch cord. After 19 years in the industry I still use this combo regularly. I is the best all round system. The zigzag is amazing but on removals it can be a little annoying. Also getting a good feel of a hitch and tying it regularly are by podcasts of using the hitch climber which develop much needed skills as an arborist.
Good review - congrats - save a significant omission was not to talk about rope diameter and ZZ. You'd expect a device like this to be sensitive to this variable and it is. Although rated up to 13mm, I had the strong impression it doesn't like the upper end of the range: I've had a ZZ for ~3yr and initial experience with 12.8mm XTC+ was frustrating - a fiddle to thread the device and it wouldn't self-tend until a great weight of rope below it. But different altogether with 11.7mm: Blue Tongue and Stein Mantra have both been brilliant.
Petzl will have known about this property of ZZ and it deserves to be mentioned before purchase - not left to be discovered afterwards. I also had a rubbish response from Petzl UK when I approached them early on for recommendations on attachment methods for a second system - as with hitchclimber's third hole. No mention of "We didn't think of that" or "We're developing a new version to address this". Or even "Use a second bridge". Instead a cordial but useless "You're on your own". Fortunately the new ZZ+ works well as primary attachment with old ZZ attached as secondary system, but Petzl's attitude came as a big disappointment to me.
Thanks for your in depth comments bro, the are very useful and insightful👍
Good review 👍 I got two zigzags and a chicane coming next week, currently on hitch’s with pulleys but since the 2 rope rule I’m finding friction horrendous on two ropes and finding limb jumps a bit of a hit and miss because my hitchs don’t work well sharing loads. I’m hoping the zigzags will smooth things out. I do also like to bomb out the tree now and then when the jobs done 😂 . Iv always wanted to go srt aswel so being on a 2nd drt line might give me the reassurance I need to get use to srt.
I think for using twin ropes in the tree SRT is a must, DRT must be an absolute nightmare managing all that rope slack
Aloha Mr. Streetboy. In what country is there a 2 rope rule?
Climbing Arborist it’s is and it’s one of many problems I’m noticing, it’s annoying because I would risk assess two lines into a job when needed, shouldn’t be risk assessing them out! I’m still trying to work out what’s best for me and it’s looking like it’s going to be srt. There’s just too much rope moving on the ground picking up twigs and knoting two ropes together with drt.
Eddie Clark the uk.
@@MrStreetboy80 the UK has gone rule mad, not much common sense allowed any more
Just tried my new zigzag today. My 13mm rope no chance of fitting. Teufelberger Tvee 12.5mm just about fits. Gonna poss try some 11.7mm. Finding ascent tricky as another dude stated. Pantin helped a bit but i am not a fan of them. Poss a hand ascender and footloop next- if it don't clash. Top video👍
Think will be great for moving in the tree🐒
Can you safely use a rope wrench on the zigzag instead of the chicane or would it not be recommended ?
It is not recommended, Petzl say the way the chicane is loaded and applies friction is different so the wrench means more pressure on the zigzag and causes more stress on the lower links I believe. The Chicane's one and only purpose is to run with the zigzag so that is what should be used.
@@ClimbingArborist Thank you sir . Big fan here .
@@elhuero69 Thanks bro, appreciate it!
i agree a life changer. have been using zig zag for about 7 years 3rd gen. tree guy. mid line attachment. who cares i have never needed to take any climbing system apart in the tree. haven't bought a hitch cord in years. would like petzel to make mid line attachment for zillion. i like having both end of my lanyard spliced. And although i am capable of splicing all my own rope. it would be nice just to throw a new one in there. Owner Arborsense Tree.
Thanks for your in depth comments bro, the are very useful and insightful👍
which rope do you recommend 11.6mm or 12.5mm for the Zigzag?
Hi Dan,
Have you climbed on a Rope Runner?
If so, would you rather work SRT on a Rope Runner or Zigzag/Chicane?
I have a Rope Runner and plan to get a Zigzag for DRT and was wondering if a Chicane would be a necessity if I already have a Runner?
Not spent much time on a runner
Shot bro. Thanks for the reply.
Recentently you posted a photo on TH-cam climbing a very tall tree - nice photo ! - Did you use the zigzag and chincane for descending?
Hard to say without seeing which photo you mean
if you told me you would come straight down from a 100-foot tall tree without branches with the zigzag and chincane my question would be answered. thanks !
@@ricardoarrais6910 the question was that serious..?
@@Ayo4yayo not at all. just wanted to know about zigzag friction limits
Dan. How do you take in slack with the chicane when coming in from a limb walk?
Not Dan here. You can tend this in 4 different ways (maybe more) first is pull on the rope above the device to pull yourself in. Second is pull below the device and slide the whole lot up. This is painfully slow. Third is push away from yourself in line with the pulley below giving you 2/1 advantage. 4th is easiest for drt users. Clip a hand ascender above your rope somewhere, use two caribiners with integrated pulleys one on hand ascender and one on your belt, pass the tail end of zig zag rope through both and pull down, this is about twice as as easy as normal drt tending. To go beyond your hand ascender simply slide it up the srt line every few pulls. Great if you’re exhausted.
For double rope should I go with the pully design or not?
MK 3 zig zag failed in December (check out Arbtalk) climber not seriously hurt.
have you compared this to the Hitch Hiker X by Richard Mumford?
Are you still thinking midline detatachability isn't that important? Maybe on crane jobs and I suppose you can make it work on removals but got trims especially and I find in removals even midline detachibility is essential to maximize the height of your tie in or rather maximize it's ability to be supporting you vertically.
Wonderful video thank you question for you you trust the zigzag a 100% without a question of a doubt I recently bought one I've always used a Blake's hitch being that it's mechanical I worry
I do trust the Zigzag 100% otherwise I definitely wouldn't use it
Thank you so much for your answer love your channel
Can you use the chicane with a prusik and hitch climber pulley??
Can the chicane be used on the older version?
Yes it sure can
have you climbed the spiderjack 3 yet? and how does it do in comparison to the zigzag in drt? ive been climbing with the zigzag for quite some time and havent got my hand on a spiderjack 3.
Not tried the SJ3
What about lockjack? Why are those falling behind in popularity?
I like the chain too. Things that are midline attachable, are also midline de-tachable. detaching midline is one of my only threats to my safety as a climber. Just sayin, in my simple mind, I feel better knowing that my system can not be detached mid line.
👍
Thanks for the reveiw
Thanks dude, appreciate your comment
Excellent video, thanks a lot 😍.
Thanks bro, appreciate your comments 🤙
never handled a Zigzag before.
your "issue" with collapsing the links with the Chicane, is it possible to "relieve" this using a shorter biner (e.g. DMM PerfectO) for attaching the Chicane?
surely Petzl only allows the OK, but fuck it - if the Chicane cannot touch the links in normal operation and you "wrestling" it down to pay out rope fast is getting easier, why not?
It has to be a H frame carabiner to fit into the Chicane, other carabiners won't go into the hole because of the shape
@@ClimbingArborist what about a quickie?
Hey, is it ideal for singlerope without chicane. I need more for canopy anchors. I think I will order Petzl zickzack for me. My ropediameter is 11.5. will that work with zickzack?
👍
What is your favorite SRT climbing device?
Thank's for that useful review.
Do you have any experience with the SpiderJack? I been climbing with SJ and rope guide for a little while and I am really looking forward to trying the ZZ this coming season.
I guess all devices have pros and cons.
Enjoy your reviews!
Not really spent too much time on the SJ so can't really comment
Great Video man !! I know its not the subject but, I was wondering, what are you using as a throw line or what is one of the best, if not, the best throw line in your opinion ?
th-cam.com/video/23t4vfpk4eE/w-d-xo.html
Ok, so I just switched from a Blake’s hitch split tail system to a monkeybeaver with a zigzag. I found ascent impossible. I bought a rope grab with a rolling carabiner to ascend. Although it makes it easier to pull my weight up, it seems to take forever to ascend. I wonder if I even ascend quicker hip thrusting with a Blake’s. Any advice?
Hard to give advice without seeing exactly what you are doing and how you have your system set up. Find another local arborist that is a competent climber with this equipment and they should be able to give you some tips
Great info and vids always good
Hello , second season climbing what’s your favorite technique and setup?
I have various favourite ropes and setups depending on the job.
Nice job Dan, I enjoyed your thoughts on the srt side of things. Best thing I have climbed on in 20 years! Be Well
Its a great device for both MRS and SRS
How do I know which model was recalled? I bought one 2 years ago
From the Petzl website.
“As previously announced, the new version of the ZIGZAG will be available in mid-January 2014. A summary of all changes made to the product can be viewed here.
If you still own a ZIGZAG affected by the recall (serial number below 13108******), we request that you immediately contact the After-Sales Service in your country to take advantage of the standard exchange procedure for your ZIGZAG. All costs will be covered by Petzl.”
You dont have a recalled one if you bought from a reputable dealer
@@alltree78 most of the times, I would agree ;)
A local (CH) dealer sent me a letter containing two new screws / threaded pins for Petzl MGO-open's I bought more than a year ago back then. Apparently there was a recall given out by Petzl and the dealer then preventatively checked their database, ordered replacement (fixed) screws and sent them out.
I'd not expect this level of service from every dealer though!
do anybody knows is how to that recall of old zigzag is working?
You can probably still find that info on their website or on a forum, but it was about 7 years ago I believe
Scott Forrest is an animal!! 💪
He certainly is....
Good review
Thanks dude, appreciate your comment
Сними пожалуйста на видео,как ты используешь зиг заг и шикану в работе
I don't think anything has happened with the last iteration of the non chicane version.. I hope not heh
what rope do you recommend drt bud?
Check this out for all the info you need
What is the best arborist climbing rope?
th-cam.com/video/clj3AVacCbM/w-d-xo.html
@@ClimbingArborist nice 1
HHx review coming?
Not at the moment, I haven't spent much time on that device
Hi I work for honey brothers watch all your videos good work
Simon Bevan got a discount code for 50% off airstreams? 😁
Smudger thanks but I get them for free lol I do a lot of Grafting
Thanks for your comment bro, appreciate you watching
The only thing I dont like about the design is that you cant attach the zag midline.
I don't know why anyone climbs on a hitch anymore
i started climbing on a zz in 2018 after being a skeptic and now climb on the zz and chicane
I am just waiting for the unicender 2 to get released properly then I'll probably switch to that
I found the problem also with tight crotchs and getting the chicane through being the only gripe
I love my hitchhiker
Climb with a hitch so you stay in practice for the day your mechanical device(s) break or get stolen at the worst possible time
Anyone use the zig zag with a rope wrench for SRT? You’d think with the tether and maybe a quickie to attach it would work. Likely not recommend though. Anyone try this?
Some people do, but Petzl say they have seen issue with wrench and zigzag as the wrench puts more stress on the zigzag than the chicane does and has caused hairline cracks over time
@@ClimbingArborist thank you for the reply!
Mid-line attachable is a cult fars. Dedicated systems are safer and less likely to fail.
I love climbing arborist. But the videos can be more concise. This one especially needs editing to key points. Could be done in less than 4 minutes.
That’s sketchy thinking the swivel has popped out before
They addressed and fixed any potential issues a few years ago now
snowboarder450 two early swivel zigzags, used for 2 years, no issues at all
Sounds good still going to order one 👍
nice 👌🏻
Thank you, I really appreciate your comment 😁
Climbing Arborist
Good job bro
Gỡ cho mình một cái khóa dây với 👍
Whoever gets trained by this guy is a lucky bar steward
That's the difference when an instructor is actually out in the field day to day. They can speak from genuine experience.
Expérience merci beaucoup pour de ranceinment outils comme on peut les payés
I live 15Mins walk from Honey Bros with there new Showroom just outside Guildford Surrey Lockdown stop people visiting place
EXTRA GEAR - MORE TROUBLE
Real men climb trees with spurs, none of this hip thrusting bull shit.
speak more fluently, I can't listen to it.