Thanks to one viewer, YT channel of Wago Australia has a video where they show how the wagos clamp the wire. Well worth looking at! th-cam.com/video/0Paddg10UPA/w-d-xo.html
Yes, you have things a bit turned around with how it works. The bent over piece works in conjunction with the bus bar. There are holes in the bus bar part where the bent over piece first and the wire goes in and protrudes further to make contact with the body of the bus bar. The bent piece wants to spring open and in doing so it clamps the wire against the inside of the cage ensuring the wire is strongly held, and also ensures the wire is in firm contact with the main body of the bus bar. The connector will continue hold onto the wires even if all the plastic is removed. The lever is there to release the wire, not cause it to be clamped.
Yup, I messed up. One other commenter provided this link to Wago Australia showing how the mechanism works. I put the link in a pinned comment so hopefully people will see it. th-cam.com/video/0Paddg10UPA/w-d-xo.html Thanks for providing the correct description how it works - very neat designs - and how it fails in a clamped state!
The people who successfully test these to destruction - around 100-200 amps - you will see the plastic melt off them while they keep working (albeit no longer insulated - but at that point so is the actual wire insulation)
I have been using Wago connectors for many years now and really love using them. I find myself buying many different versions that are super handy like the ones that can easily connect 5 wires together. I feel it's the easiest and safest way to connect multiple wire of varying size and type together. I have even bought the larger size now that will accept up to #10 wire and rated for 37A. They are so handy. Excellent video! I think I enjoyed it even more than usual since we very recently had power and now somewhat of a internet connection restored. Helene was really rough on our area and many still don't have power. This is one of my first videos watched in a while. After over a week it's been a blessing to get back to somewhat normal!
Phillip, I never clued in that you would be Helene's path - glad your OK. Never been though a hurricane, but had a similar experience years ago in the great ice storm of '98 - I do appreciate how its nice getting to normalcy. Your experience with them is interesting - you must have been one of the early adopters on this continent! Have you been using them for installed AC wiring? Or for inside devices/appliances/industrial equipment. I assume the 37A version is just bigger all around? Thats an amazing amount of current for a connector like that.
@ElectromagneticVideos I have used these for all sorts of wiring, including 3 phase motor wiring for small 3HP and under sizes. Never had any issues. I do like them much better than wire nuts. In the industry, we often have different size wires and some fine strands, some coarse strands connecting together, and it helps with that a lot. The only issue I have found is just as you mentioned, the lever can get caught on other wires when pushing into a junction box, etc. I am just cautious of that when reassembling. I think Ideal makes a version that has eliminated that issue with a different lever design, but I have not used them yet to say. Also, Wago makes a special junction box for the lever nut, and that may help with that issue as well. It makes it kinda like a terminal strip. The 37A are simply scaled up, so yes, larger opening and slightly larger overall dimensions.
Canadian here. I absolutely love those connectors. Compared to marrettes, they are a pleasure. I do some experiments in electronics at home that I mount on wood boards for demos. I sometimes glue several connectors to the board in combination to a terminal block connector. It makes for a clean layout that makes my experiment easy to change or adjust.
Your the second one who mentioned that type of use - which I will have to remember - great for experimentation and demos. Looked at your rotating Helmholtz coil - cool! You know, if you made 3 Helmholtz coils at 120 degrees from each other and ran them on a cheap 3 phase variable speed inverter (maybe a transformer for each coil as well) you could achieve the rotating field without moving the coil. Course would look as impressive not moving!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thanks for your comment! Yes, I thought about that. I was not sure that I could achieve exactly the same field as physically rotating the coils, especially in the periphery. Do you think it would create exactly that same field? In my mind, it's not clear what happens in the periphery when none of the coils are at peak phase. By periphery, I mean closer to the coils.
@@lematindesmagiciens8764 It should work pretty well. Three phase motors work by creating a uniform rotating field by using three coils 120 degrees apart. I did a simple example here th-cam.com/video/0aJlISxPh4s/w-d-xo.html although my coils were not setup for uniform field. One issue you may have the is the variable frequency drives use square wave pulse width modulated voltages to create the three phase. You might need a some simple filtering to make smooth sine wave - even just a step-down transformer may be enough to do it.
These Wago connectors have been used for around a decade here(UK). They are excellent, and very reliable provided you ensure you secure the wire. They are far more secure than screw terminals because those depend on the installer tightening every screw down properly and they always forget one. Nowadays most junction boxes, and small fitted lights are sold with this Wago type terminal because they are much faster to fit.
WAGO sell junction boxes with wago connectors. There are a whole lot of similar types now using the same lever system although not officially Wago. They are called "tool less junction boxes". These are now more popular than any screw terminal products. With regard to light fittings the lights have these wago type lever connectors, but they are not official WAGO connectors.
@@ElectromagneticVideos they are VERY compact - I don't know anyone installing lighting in Europe that doesn't use them. Similar style connectors are showing up on the back of socket plates and switches too. Makes things much faster and more reliable than screws - I have a good feeling about them not a sense of dread (I've seen it all, done it all got the burns, etc in 40 years as a radio ham at high current DC so I've been abusing Wagos for a good 9 years solid)
Damn that’s cool, I was kinda concerned when I saw True start using these on their upright fridges on the compressor wiring. This video squashes those concerns
Thank you for showing us this, there are probably many of us who doubted the high current rating, you prove that they work. Something that becomes more difficult to test is a slightly too high current, for a long time, perhaps several months, this scenario is more similar to real conditions.
Exactly - a few amps beyond the ratings for a long time. Unfortunately would make a long. boring video! I sure manufacturers do tests like that. I also know there are rules of thumb that say things like a higher current for half the time = lower current for the full time, but you never really know how accurate that is.
Push fit connectors; I was sceptical of this way of securing an electrical connection, I had an thermal inspection a new Flour mill that made use of this type of connection. The mill was run at normal loading and I inspected several thousand connections half of them being three phase >20 Amps. I found nothing indicating a high resistance with the thermal camera which surprised me as I would expect about 2% high resistance connections on contactors. Wago seems to be a sound system I would say that additional provision for strain relief to mitigate vibration stress is needed. The Wago electrical connection is not effected other than insulation by the removal of the plastic as the lever lifts the tension off the wire so if absent the connection is still made. Ref camera, I have a similar one I use as my main camera takes five minutes for the stering cooler to chill the sensors, the hand held one cost me £100 and is very capable . Interesting study thanks. Another story : I was asked to do a thermal inspection to ascertain the root cause of circuit failures in a plug and socket arrangement used to facilitate pre fabrication of office buildings. The system look robust and had reasonable sized contacts however the designer failed to take into account diversity ie many appliances drawing current at the same time from the same radial (240vac) circuit. The system was failing and repeatedly occurred the morning after a holiday when all staff were returning and the building heating up. The cause was all the heaters and vending machines starting at the same time overloading the plug connectors which overheated causing the spring tension in the plug and sockets to relax. The company reluctantly agreed with my analysis that the system was a not up to snuff and subsequently scrapped the project and rewired all buildings using the system as the insurance cover was withdrawn.
Wow - there is nothing like a real-world example with thousands of connectors in a harsh environment to prove something! Thanks for posting that example. You mention strain relief - do you mean strain relief clamps when the cable goes into a junction box or somehow associated with the connector itself? Your second example is also a great lesson. I know over here we have various rules for estimating the current use of certain appliances for circuit breaker panel size determination. Its also based on typical use probabilities. Your example sure shows how sometimes that sort of thing doesn't apply apply. Must have been tricky to sort out in the beginning - and even trickier to tactfully the the customer!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thanks for your reply. As a Thermographer (retired) I have seen many types of electrical kit and processes and inspected thousands of connection under load and have 15 years of thermograms somewhere. Wago; their connectors are really for connecting circuits which are not exposed to movement and mechanical stress the point of contact like a chisel edge and the more you pull the deeper it will dig. The clip releases the tension and has no influence when closed. Vibration could and will cause spring tension drive the contact deeper into the cable. So now we had a point of stress where vibration and other forces will separate the conductor. The electrical connection at norma temperatures ,
Thank you; new subscriber, and I am enjoying your testing. As an electrical contractor, the safety factors that you expose are of great interest. I have thought about presenting the following test, and possibly you would be interested in doing so (you have a much greater reach than I do): Coil an extension cord on a plastic cord reel. Next, hook up a 1500-watt portable space heater, and run the heater for a little while. Now uncoil the cord somewhat, and measure the heat coming off the inner coils of the cord, using a handheld infrared thermometer (maybe do a before-and-after-load temperature reading). This test would expose the dangers of leaving a power cord coiled while in use. What do you think?
So glad you subscribed. Actually in a more recent video, like a fool I almost inadvertently demonstrated what you described - had coiled extension cord providing the power for variac powering the test I was doing for the video. Lucky the current was low enough to not cause a problem, but it sure was warm. Yes that would be a very worthwhile thing so maybe this coming summer - I do all those things outside because if the noxious fumes and even if the wire only gets warm, there ls always the risk the demo is more effective than planned. I just added your comment to my list of videos to do. Since your an electrical contractor, you might be interested in the videos I did with things like 14-2 in 2x4 wall embedding various types of insulation - here is one: th-cam.com/video/lFdSXTKsKwA/w-d-xo.html Bottom line - I found that with some of the best modern insulation on hot day, a cable carrying close to the rated current can get uncomfortably close to its temperature rating. Not something that seems to mentioned anywhere. Please feel free to comment on any of the videos - some of the most interesting comments have come for electricians and electrical contractors who have seen so many things in real situations.
I've seen John Ward do something like this with wago connectors in comparison to three other types of connectors. His test was to see which of the four (the other three being a wire nut and two different crimp connectors) would fail first in the event of a massive overvoltage. Surprisingly, apart from the plastic parts of the connectors melting off of the metal parts the wire was connected to and burning away, the wire overheated and failed before any of the connectors did with the failure point being right next to the wago connector. It was even still technically functional if you reconnected the circuit. This goes without saying that they're definitely worth it as well as the others that JW tested.
Just looked him up - seems to do very similar testing. From your descition similar results to what I got here. I'll have to look at his videos! Its really is amazing how much modern connectors can withstand.
@@ElectromagneticVideos IKR, it's also surprising since modern everyday things get lower and lower in tolerance and build quality all the time. But I guess that seems to not apply too well to electrical equipment unless it's a legitimately half-assed ripoff of things like fuses and amp meters
Has Anyone Tested the Ideal Brand (in-sure connectors)? The problem with connectors in general is what they are made of. I always get nervous with knock-offs and cheap brands like those sold all over Amazon because we do not know what materials they use. If they use cheaper plastic and metal in them, it could cause an actual fire, not a pretend one. For the few extra dollars, it is not worth playing that game. My home and everyone in it is worth the extra few bucks. With electrical wiring, outlets and connectors I tend to stick to the name brands because they have been used for years, and you can find videos where a specific brand is tested. Not to mention that the certifications on the package for the name brands are real certifications and not just printed on the bag. I recently had to change some outlets and I could not believe that outlets were so cheap. At H. Depot they were literally 60¢ for 120 VAC 15 Amp outlet (levitron bought in 10Pk). Something about the price being that cheap actually scares me LOL. A single Wago 221-2401 connector is 60¢ Obviously I know they make outlets in the millions and they are not some super hard thing to make but when one connector is the same cost of the outlet it just seems strange.
@@gags730 A massive percentage of them either use shitty, brittle plastic, undersized components, or deliberately miss-lable the products by using random parts of labels of several variants of the product being faked. Companies that make knock-off fuses tend to do this where they plaster a ten amp fuse with a twenty amp rating on the label with another fuse's color scheme, that doesn't match the fuse's size, or the falsely claimed rating that's on a legitimate twenty amp fuse.
After being introduced to these connectors by youtubers a few years ago I got some for myself and a few colleagues to try at work. We all love them. They are easy to use, are reusable and do little to no damage to the wire when applied and removed multiple times. And everyone who sees us use them are intrigued and wants to try them on their jobs. Even the instrumentation techs love them as they can easily break analog circuits to insert their calibration meters. Also, they have a port on the rear for test probes! I hate trying to jam my test leads into a marrette wondering if I am getting a good connection or not. We tend to use them for pilot duty circuits at 120V and less. Even though they are rated for 600V, we still use marrettes for most motor connections. I wish I saw these connectors more readily available at local wholesale electrical suppliers (Ontario, Canada). Thanks for the video! This is by far the best test video I have seen for these connectors.
Thanks! really appreciate that! I'm in Ontario too (near Ottawa)! I order mine from either Digikey or Newark which are more electronic parts suppliers than wholesale electrical suppliers Digikey usually gets orders I place delivered to me the next day, so not local but almost as good if thats an option for you. Sounds like you are doing stuff in industry - have you ever had to have stuff inspected by ESA? They they have an comments about Wagos?
@@ElectromagneticVideos Good info re digikey, I will keep that in mind. Yes, we are in regular contact with ESA, and are on the CSS program with them, we have all our facilities inspected every year. Our one off inspections are usually for temporary power wiring such as a portable generators when a stationary one suffers a failure. And our regular CSS inspections are always after the jobs are completed and the inspectors never ask to see field wiring or open junction boxes. Never had them ask about wago's.
I've just started them because I've seen enough videos of YT creators putting far more current through them than you'd be allowed to before anything bad happens. I also like the fact that they make it a bit easier to get a multi-meter in there to test things. They're also nice for when you're wiring in a smart device that you know isn't going to last decades. If you've got the lever nut integrated into an outlet or switch, it makes it super easy to swap them out as needed without needing to remove any of the other wires from the box to do it.
We use Wagos here in Germany for decades and nothing burned down or melted. But we don't use the lever ones most of the time because they are expensive. To connect solid to solid wire we use non-lever Wagos like 2273. The lever Wagos are only used to connects solid to stranded or stranded to stranded wires. And we don't push wires in the box as shown in 33:10, they get neatly folded in the boxes.
That interesting to hear - Ideal seems to make connectors similar to ones in your link that are widely available here but not sure who/for what they are typically used. I wonder if your junction boxes are a bit bigger/more convenient to fold cables into that ours since you plugs a bigger?
The flour mill is where I was first introduced to push fit clamp connectors used in the control panels for the Buhler roller mill etc, nice machinery and very competent engineers.
@@ElectromagneticVideos No, our wall boxes are much smaller than in the US. There's around 25mm of clearance behind the socket for wires and connections. If you don't do it neatly the socket will not fit inside the box. The extra size of the 221 can really hurt in these applications (you are allowed to splice extra wires behind a socket in a 50mm deep box).
As a sparky working in France, 221-4xxs are generally used for a junction from solid core wire to flexible core. They're absolutely fabulous for that. We use far more of the S2273 series connectors when doing solid core to solid core. They have a far smaller footprint, far less danger of the lever getting flipped open, and are still rated at 24A / 450V IEC. We also use the 22-6xx series for bigger connections, particularly induction hobs; they handle up to 6mm which is what - 10 gauge? and are rated 41A / 450V. I trust them with other people's lives...
Interesting to hear- was a similar comment from one of your German colleagues who mentioned the S2273 as well. "I trust them with other people's lives..." - you cant give them much more of an endorsement than that! Thanks for commenting and greetings from Canada!
I am a bit late watching this video. There is a little known feature about Wago 121's. On the clear backside right behind the lever with the Wago label is a recesses test point so you can stick a volt meter probe in for testing. I found an off label use for these. I restore old radios and sometimes there is a loop antenna on the back of the radio which needs to be disconnected to remove the chassis. I glue the Wago to the chassis then use it like an old fanstock clip. Check out that little test point.
Thats really interesting - didnt know that! I'll keep that in mind - could be really useful for application like you describe where one needs an easy to use test point thats a bit better than an alligator clip
Very informative video. Thanks! It occurs to me that a connector carrying high current for a long time, maybe only a few seconds, would do us a favor by making the connections open. That is, the connector would be a last-resort fuse.
Your welcome! You make an interesting point. Would the cost/complexity of such a fusible connector we a worthwhile thing? It would be interesting to hear if any/many electricians have seen melted wire from such situations and how common they are. There was a circuit breaker series from way back ( Federal Pacific / Federal Pioneer) that was notorious for not tripping. I wonder what the reliability of modern breakers is. I do think thin extension cords should have fuses built in for similar reasons since many of then can handle the typical 15A max very well.
Interest tangent, I am in the UK and the appliance plug has the appropriate replaceable fuse 1, 3, 5, 7, 10,or 13 Amp as our 'ring main' sockets are protected to 32Amps. A fusible connector is probably not good as fuses degrade and it may go open for no good reason other than age. Also fuse rupture current can be ridiculously high or slow a resettable bimetallic fuse may be suitable. Some British heating appliances and washing machines, toasters, Iron's etc have an inbuilt thermal fuse for extra safety but I question how many appliances are on the scrap heap because a simple inaccessible fuse has failed. Don't get me on Federal Electric switchgear Best wishes
@@WOFFY-qc9te So you had that Federal Electric stuff too - didnt realize it was used outside of North America. Your comment about thermal fuses is good one - have seen numerous things "break" over here as a result of those thermal fuses being installed in a way to never be replaced. An I know you plugs well! Lived in various 220V countries as kid and have visited other more recently. Always though the ring circuit was a clever idea - although not without its own issues.
@@ElectromagneticVideos One of my clients was a rather large 'American Can' manufacture, they would ship in their own kit so that is where I came across Federal Electric, Also Apache Mainframe computers and Cincinnati machine tools which are wonderful bits of kit. When they closed the plant it was all packed up and sent Stateside. Thermal fuse, a friends wife was nagging him to get a new washing machine as hers had stopped, I showed him where the fuse may be and gave him a spare, his wife was not at all pleased when he got the machine working as she had already picked out a replacement, beers on him. Ring circuit, post war copper saving initiative and good for the time as the UK was creating the '440kV Supergrid' building power stations everywhere. We closed the last coal station last week. I prefer radial circuits and loads of breakers like the US as my house is on four floors so I have three phase available shared across boards on each floor and another to the garden workshop. which means I have 415V between phase which could be fun if I cocked up. Some very interesting contributors to the subject, the consensus is that WAGO (and the like ) when used on fresh straight non oxidised wire are fit for purpose. Best wishes.
@@WOFFY-qc9te I completely understand your experience with the American head office sending all their stuff to the foreign subsidiary- worked for a US company like that once and had the same experience Great thermal fuse story - sometimes an excuse to upgrade is actually welcome :) ."We closed the last coal station last week. " Thats great - we have been gradually closing them down over here. I live in Ontario where we are something like 75% fossil fuel free - with electricity coming mostly from nuclear and hydro. I'm actually in the process of switching to electric heat - both lower cost these days and the bonus is its "green". The nice things about your home is having three phase - most homes have split phase here, so all our induction motors are the capacitor or winding start types :( "Some very interesting contributors to the subject" YES! That what I find so interesting about posting videos - often the comments are most interesting and usually I learn stuff from them. What makes these comments is hearing from countries that have been using these connectors way longer than we have and hearing the experiences. Best wish to you to from Canada!
As a home owner and armature electrician I have been using Wago connectors for several years and find them to be an excellent option with no failures. They are a bit more expensive than other connections but the ease of use and space saving is worth the cost. Many times I find the "professional" electrician(s) that install switches and outlets meet or exceed the space capacity of receptacle boxes. This causes an issue when upgrading to GFCI or GFCI outlets with built in USB charges as the receptacles are much larger than a simple receptacle. To fit the new larger receptacles I often replace the wire nuts with Wago connectors and I then have the room needed; although, I do use electric tape to wrap the levers down so tjru don't get opened fighting the limited space inside the box. Lastly, even those who dislike the Wago must admit when connecting strand to solid core wire a Wago is superior. If you don't agree simple do a tug test with a Wago and wire nut.
"I do use electric tape to wrap the levers down" - thats probably a really good thing to do in our smaller junction boxes. Your point about larger receptacles - some are so huge! I also wander about the heat given of by the USB power electronics in a cramped junction box.
A slightly uncommon use for Wago connectors is as reusable quick connections for bread board prototyping. I use these a lot as they can take pretty thin wires and clamp perfectly well onto 2.54mm crimped cables and multimeter probes.
I like to use Wago connectors on fixtures that come with stranded wire such as ceiling fans and exterior lighting. They provide a great transition from solid to stranded. They are also great when tight on space and you need to pigtail wires. But for all other permanent type connections or connections with many wires I much prefer the tried and true pre twist then wire nut. The wing type are my favorite and Ideal even makes a special drill bit for them which works great and relieves wrist strain.
Its funny - your comment is almost identical to that from that of a local electrician I know - and I couldn't agree more! They certainly are perfect or even idea for certain use cases.
While watching this video, it reminded me of the N.E.C. bend radius maximum radius. Maybe you could make a video showing what happens if you over bend the wire at the rated current of the wire... Excellent video 👍
I wonder if the damage from an overly tight bend is enough to make a significant enough defect to be noticeable in an overcurrent video. I'll have to do some experimentation - with the camera running in case it is the makings of a video. Alsdo looking doing an overcurrent test on some 1 awg Al cable I have from a boiler being installed at my house. Would be interesting to see what 5 6 7 800 amps might do - have been having some thoughts how to do that. Definitly an outside test in case these is a splatter of molten aluminum.
@@ElectromagneticVideosI have seen 12/2 with ground, and 14/2 w/ground wires melted in 2 due to poor receptacle installation into the box. For whatever reason, (not sure why) the neutral wire was always the one that failed. The wire bend was too sharp at the back of the receptacle. Also.... Both panel board's were located in garages during winter. I have no doubt this contributed to the failure. Thanks for your time and interest!
@@chopper5371 I am always fascinated by reports of things like that from people like you who see a lot of it in real situations. I know some 14/2 and 12/2 cables had thinner grounds so may that why they melted. Or maybe without insulation they could be bent more shraply. I am going too try the bend vs max current test - will depend on having some warm indian summer days because that has to be done outside becuase of the plastic fumes. I am looking ta a way of making cheap fume hood/chamber - looks like cheap sandblaster cabinet might work - that would make these tests possible in the winter!
I have seen these used exactly once...to connect copper to aluminum wire in a house built in the '70s. You can't find aluminum rated sockets and switches easily anymore, so he had created short copper leads and used Wago connectors to connect the copper to aluminum, allowing readily available copper-only sockets and switches to be used.
Interesting - I didnt think they were rated for aluminum. I know a common approach in my area is to do what you described but with Al to Cu rated wire nuts and anti-oxidation grease on the twisted wires.
@@ElectromagneticVideos They are rated for Cu/Al connection, but only with their Alu-Plus paste. However, majority of electricians in Europe don't have any of that paste and the connector still works fine.
Thanks - actually they do as well or better. Haven't done a dedicated video on them (yet) but there was one at the end of the cable in this video th-cam.com/video/9vkMeyAx7o4/w-d-xo.html and we took it apart afterwards (not in the video) and besides the plastic deforming somewhat, the connection was in perfect condition (amazingly so).
Canadian here also! yes I saw John Wards video also, My opinion of these is as Big Clive says about the electrcian in a day that can be had in the UK! thats all these are about they are easy but in My opinion after 44 years as a Millwright/Industrial Electrcian give Me Marrette Black all day long they don't melt! all this stuff today melts, anyway I still vote for the Marrette Black made of Bakelite ! Thats a Nice Miller Welder You Got there : )
I have a few of those old Bakelite Marettes somewhere! Bakelite was a fabulous early plastic(?) and seems to withstand aging very well. I wonder why they changed to the modern softer plastics? Probably cost! It is a wonderful old welder! I actually picked it up a our local Habitat ReStore for $100 after it had been reduced in price week after week with no-one buying it. Its built like a tank, welds really well, and turned out to be so useful for these sort of "unusual" uses.
Millwright. Sir, I hear you and I too had concern about these new fangled connectors but as mention in my other comments after inspecting thousands of circuits I have to say that when installed CORRECTLY they work. However a Bakelite (Henley) JB will give you plenty of notice from the pungent emissions of formaldehyde that something is amiss, that sweet memorable smell leading you to a pile of trouble and a cheque but at least you can take comfort knowing that the motor windings may be chooched, Dante's inferno is contained. Has AVE done any tests.? .. This Brit send much respect to a Canadian Millwright.
@@ElectromagneticVideos Bakelite is a thermoset which means it irreversibly cures. Most plastics we use today are thermoplastics, they can be reshaped by heat (but we still use some thermosets like epoxy, polyurethanes, vulcanised rubber). So instead of transporting large vats of toxic formaldehyde and phenol that are needed to produce bakelite, we can ship solid pellets that are then melted and pressed or injected. Also while I was looking this up: apparently bakelite contains fillers to give it strength. This filler was usually wood pulp…. Or asbestos!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thats a Lucky find to be sure, I worked at Featherlite Ladders for 18.50 years and it welded Jaws ladders together for most of that time ( well a Person did ) Miller made/makes based on that of what I know a Quality outfit
@@WOFFY-qc9te Yes and as the wires as was stated in this video are twisted together that is the clicher as I see it also there is a method to the use of Marrettes and each use needs a good tug test to check it was done properly! , I wont use those Wago or diravation of at all, well I am mostly retired so I won't get into that as once was anyway! but nothing is perfect! Cheers!
Thanks for the destructive testing! I'm a big fan of WAGOs. They are so handy for test setups. I like wiring the source to the center and the loads to the outside terminals. I have wondered about the current capacity for heavy stranded THHN and fine stranded speaker wire. I'm also a fan of wrapping both wire nuts and WAGOs with electrical tape. To prevent and accidental removal.
Destructive testing is always fun! Good point about source in the center - good way to minimize current flow and distance on the connection metal. Now that you say it, I wounder how the connection works with very fine strands like that. From what we have seen, my guess is that wire acts like a fuse long before the cable. Someone else mentioned electrical tape - seems like a great idea. What would be really nice is if they made a cover to do that.
The 221 series are rated to ambient temperatures of 85c and then have their rated load put through them. Under load they are allowed to go up to 105c continuously but won't fail until much higher. 85c exceeds normal PVC (60c in the USA I think, usually around 75c elsewhere for normal installations). 95c exceeds standard XLPE insulation. It's to be expected that a connector will take any punishment that the wires that are connected to it can. The 222 has a max ambient of 40c and a max continuous operating of 85c. Lower than the polycarb 221 but still in excess of PVC insulation where they are commonly used. I compared the additional circuit resistance the 221 added vs a circuit using common tunnel type connector used in Australia (twist wires, place into terminal, do up screw). It was only a matter of milliohms so in any sane wiring system to use of Wagos makes no practical difference to circuit resistances and is less prone to installation error.
I didn't clue in that they were rated for ambient 85C - wow. That really great to hear - I have long been concerned with cables/connectors in attics that can easily get crazy hot in the summer (and probably even more extreme for you in Australia) particularity when covered in insulation.
@@ElectromagneticVideos I have an older house so all it had in most rooms was a single 100W incandescent light so full load was about 4.5A at 240V. Cable was 1.5mm so carried that easily. Lights normally on at night only so the roof temperature was falling. After 65 years of that the wiring in the roof was still in good order but at the fittings the heat rising from the bulbs themselves had cooked the PVC insulation on the wires and it had started to go brittle.
Great comment and info thanks, what is important when getting a connector like the WAGO is; (A) The conductors are plated spring steel and not copper or alloy or other magic spices from China. (B) That the enclosure is only for insulation and releasing the spring tension for assembly. That way any thermal distortion of the insulation will not compromise the conductors mechanical function. (C) Don't use aluminium conductors Best wishes.
@@retrozmachine1189 You know, years ago I lived in an older house and some of the wiring insulation probably done the 1950s showed signs of brittling in the boxes just like you described. Interesting, it was even sin come boxes without lamp fixtures and it was only the section of wire exposed to air (ie not protected by the outer cable sheath). I had assumed it was the air exposure that allowed to plastic to dry out.
@@WOFFY-qc9te Great summary! I never thought about aluminum - I wonder how the oxidation issues would come into play with a spring loaded connector like the Wago. Over here most (all?) houses were wired with aluminum in the late 1960s and early 70s until the oxidation issues started causing fires.
Nice test. Wagos have got quite popular here in the UK, and are now showing up built into many accessories - so you can get sockets with wago terminals rather than screw terminals. Makes installation (and testing) much quicker and easier. You point about high currents due to faults or inrush is also true, but in reality can usually be ignored because they are very short duration. In circuit design here is it common to use the "adiabatic equation" as specified in the wiring regs to verify that a wire of a particular Cross Sectional Area (CSA) will withstand the over current for long enough to allow the protective device to clear the fault. The equation is normally phrased as: s = sqrt( i^2 x t ) / k Where s is the CSA of the wire in mm^2, i is the fault current, t the time to clear the fault in seconds, and k a factor to represent the type of insulation material used on the wire, and its thermal performance (115 for PVC). The equation also assumes that the starting condition is with the wires at the nominal maximum core temperature - so for PVC clad wire, 70 °C. So say you have a 230V circuit wired 2.5mm^2 Twin and Earth cable (typically with a 1.5mm^2 earth / circuit protective conductor), and it is fed from a B20 miniature circuit breaker (MCB), and a total Earth loop impedance of 0.5 Ohm. Now you accidentally stick a nail through a cable to create a line to earth short. You can check whether the earth wire will be of adequate cross section to survive the fault without failing, catching fire, or vaporising in an arc fault etc: Total Fault Current = 230 / 0.5 = 460A For faults in excess of 5x the nominal rating of the MCB with a B trip curve, it will operate on its "fast" magnetic response, and clear the fault in
Very interesting that you do that sort of calculation and thanks for taking the time explain is so well! From what I gather (and I stand to be corrected) over here it is less common to calculate that sort of thing - I think we rely on things having one size fits all. Interestingly myself and a friend have been experimenting with taking very slow mo video breakers opening. It is amazing how fast they open, but we still have to enhance our setup to determine the delay between over-current and the opening sequence. Even with calculations like the one you presented, its always amazing to me how well things can withstand massive yet short overcurrents!
@@ElectromagneticVideos For most electrical installation work, that level of detailed calculation is not required, since there are a number of very well tested "standard" circuits that will serve the most of the common requirements for general purpose lighting and socket circuits. It is only when you need a bespoke design for a particular bit of high power equipment, or for particularly adverse installation conditions like long cable runs, or higher that ideal earth loop impedance where the adiabatic check comes in handy as final sanity check on a design. Bespoke designs can then factor in the effects of different types of circuit protection (e.g. rewireable fuses are slower than cartridge fuses or MCBs), thermal factors like cable grouping, ambient temperature, cables running in insulation, and also checking that voltage drop remains within limits. In general though the standard installations are remarkably robust and tolerant; one can think up scenarios where they ought to fail or be out of spec, but in reality problems are very rarely experienced.
Yes, although as long as it's UL rated for whatever the specs are and those specs are above the demands you're putting on them, it should be fine. Also, keep in mind that for new wiring, AFCI is required for a lot of that, and that should protect against the kinds of arcs that lead to fires. But, really, to a large extent the more you can do to make things safer the better.
Nice test. You should, if possible, also run the same test with both the (1) IDEAL 30-05L23 "In-Sure" level wire connectors, and, if you can obtain them up in the Great White North, the (2) Harbor Freight's "Pittsburgh Compact Lever" wire connectors. Really the main drawbacks for these sort of connectors are (a) cost - compared to wire nuts, and (2) institutional mentality in favor of wire nuts. Both have a place within electricity/electronics.
Looks like I can get the Ideal ones on amazon, but the harbour freight ones - next time I'm visiting the US (always wanted to visit harbour freight!). Interesting thing about harbour freight one - they really look copied from wago, whereas the Ideal ones a clearly different at least in appearance. Your so right about the drawbacks - even though the code apparently does allow things rated by the manufacturer/UL/CSA etc to be used, I could see an electrical inspector/home inspector not being happy with something unfamiliar. With labour costs so high these days, I wonder if cost would work out in the end when one figures in the time savings. Then again, I'm sure experienced electricians can apply wire nuts in record time.
I think the lever nuts make even more sense on outlets and switches that you anticipate having to replace. If you've got a short braided pigtail to connect it back to the circuit and lever nuts on the actual item to be replaced, it's a matter of a few seconds to perform the swap. Really, it takes longer to get the old one unscrewed and the new one screwed in than actually messing with the wires. And with the trend being smarter switches, it's probably going to be something that you see more of going forward.
my experience has been neither positive, nor negative, it has been alternating because I'm using them on AC circuits after all. I've always been disappointed at how wire nuts do with stranded wire. You really have to be careful to make sure they catch. So as much as I like twisting the wires together for solid core and using a wire nut I think wago's are my go to for anything stranded or anything transitioning to stranded. Perfect example is the ceiling fan or light fixtures, although if it's not gonna change that often and I might just do wire nuts I have a few hundred. But I did wire up a whole bunch of receptacles with stranded wire in conduit and it just made more sense to buy a pack of Wago's and do them that way as an I was guaranteed not have any issues with joining the stranded conductors. I also needed to do a lot of loop throughs as I was putting in I think it was 6 twist locks and all of them were dedicated circuits apart from the 2x20 amp receptacles Sharing with two of the locking receptacles. Movie Theater media rack, pretty much every amp got its own dedicated circuit and then a always on circuit for the server. Eventually the goal is to put a contactor in to switch the amps off with one switch, so I would have to switch 4 separate 20 amp circuits and then have to always on circuits for the rest of the equipment.
Interesting and I think your experience really nails it - they excel for stranded wires. Sounds like a nice setup! If its a home theatre, if you are looking for contractors, look up ones for HVAC AC units (which I stumbled across a few years ago) - they are produced in such quantities the prices are a fraction of the cost "industrial" ones.
I would have put this in the previous comment but youtube seems to penalise me if I edit things too many times. The plastic body of the connector performs no part of holding the wires. It's there for insulation and to hold the plastic levers that actually force the cage open to release the wires. Take all the plastic away and that sucker isn't letting go easily.
@@ElectromagneticVideos I can second that. The plastic is only for opening the connection. What fails when those things get hot is that the metal springs lose their tension at about the same temperature as the plastic starts to burn. In addition, the contact area to the bus bar gets smaller, as it turns away from the wire (it only has hooks on one side), increasing the resistance and temperature. But for short-term overloads, those factors are a non-issue. The bus bar has a higher cross-section than the wires, and the contact area is larger than the cross-section of the wires, too. This means that a WAGO clamp needs thermal build-up to fail and will not act as a fuse (i.e. fail at the conductor).
Your absolutely right - for an extended period of time they may not do so well. If nothing else, the warmth may cause the plastic to deteriorate/brittle over time.
Pretty sure they won't go above 6mm^2. 4mm banana connectors would be 12mm^2, and in that range the contact surface becomes an issue. There are lever style connectors for cables this size for fixed DIN rail installation or PCB connections (larger bc of the larger internal contact area), but I very much doubt that there will ever be some for connecting free floating cables.
I agree with @wernerviehhauser94 @wernerviehhauser94 response to you comment - the tiny contact surface would become an issue. I'm amazed these work so well!
I guess the increase temp in the connector might significantly be due to thermal conduction from the hotter wires. Maybe try higher and shorter gauge wire if possible. I'd guess the current rating might be due to the properties of the plastic components in particular. I'm guessing it would become very brittle with many cycles of thermal changes. Unless it's engineered to max rate a fraction of the current capacity of its highest gauge wire allowing for poor practice connections etc. Very impressive though. Really nice to see the margin of safety. Thanks :)
Your right about heat from the wires - particularity when they were glowing red hot from 250A. I think your right about the limiting factor being the plastic - but as you said, very impressive though! And a great margin of safety. They can certainly handle 15A or 20A without the slightest issue!
The rating is not as much determined by the properties of the plastics but by the temperature delta. There's only so much rise in temperature you want to have at any point of your electrical installation. You certainly want to stay away from the maximum your plastics are rated for, but getting to 89.9C isn't a good idea either.
27:40 on the YT channel of Wago Australia there's a video where they show how the wagos clamp the wire. At around 0:50 -> th-cam.com/video/0Paddg10UPA/w-d-xo.html
Wow - that says a lot for them! What are you using them for and what percentage of the time are are they in use? If they are in use a considerable percentage of the time and have withstood 80 Amps its really amazing!
@@ElectromagneticVideos They are just for at home fuckery. Usually loaded with DC at 100% 80amps for a few hours each. Battery testing mostly. Voltage drop is high but hey I just need it to fex a temporary issue....I had a few years back
@@AlpineTheHusky Still very impressive! The split left-right configuration probably helps a lot since it seemed a lot of the heat was created on the metal strip that connects all three contacts.
I've yet to use the clear wagos, I'm still going through my big box of the grey/gray ones (the 222s, I like them better than the clear ones).. Never had any issues with them.
I wonder how the plastic compare? Historically clear plastics have always seemed brittler than cloudy ones, but the clear plastic on the connectors I tried did not seem brittle at all. Modern plastics are amazing!
wire nuts often have teh problem when pushing into an outlet the wires will become disconnected... this is not an issue just with wagos. I use them on renovations where the small outlet box size prohibits wire nuts without undue pressures when screwing the outlet into the box or when multiple wires are connected and there is a chance of them coming apart in the box.
No, the issue with wagos in that situation is the lever accidentally catching. Wire nuts won't come off if they're properly installed. As in a number of wires within the rated number, them being put into the wire nut untwisted and the wire nut twisted until you get a couple of twists to the wire outside of the nut. And, if that isn't enough for you, you can always put a wrap or two of electrical tape around the nut and wire just to make sure that it never vibrates free. But, that's not really necessary if you're using the right wire nut and have properly twisted it on. No tool or supply is going to work reliably if not installed correctly. A properly installed wire nut is probably ever so slightly less likely to pull apart as move it in and out of the box. But, really, the difference is minuscule and you can always apply tape tot he wago if it's that much of a concern.
The only real downside to Wagos is the cost. Last time I checked, they were far more costly than wire nuts. I bought two boxes of wire nuts 30 years ago and still have yet to use them all doing around the house projects. For a professional, the saving in labor might offset the cost, but it doesn’t take long to install a wire nut so not sure the economics are really there.
With labour rates so high these days, I wonder if cost of Wagos , though expensive, is simply inconsequential compared to the $150/h cost of an electrician.
@ That is likely the thinking, but I’m not sure it holds water. Stripping the wire takes the same amount of time for both so omitting that, we are talking about saving a few seconds at best. I can install a wire nut in about 4 seconds with usually about 4 twists of the wrist. A Wago is going to take two seconds. So, you might save two seconds per connection. $150 an hour is 4.2 cents per second so you might save 8.4 seconds per connection. My local Home Depot gets $14.48 for 180-pack of mixed yellow and red wire nuts or about 8 cents each. The same store gets $5.97 for a box of 10 two terminal Wagos or 60 cents each. It would take a very slow electrician to save 52 centers per connection as that would require taking 13 seconds longer to install a wire nut than a Wago. That seems a stretch, but I guess if all you can hire are really slow electricians…
@@LTVoyager Very good point - its really not a huge time saving. My guess is its is the easy ability to disconnect and the clicking lever is a bit easier than twisting a wire nut. And electricians get paid so much these days the cost of the Wago is small compared to the cost of the labour anyway.
@@ElectromagneticVideos I suspect that is the thinking and that is just one reason homes are so expensive these days. If this thought process is applied throughout the build by every trade, the net effect is pretty large. I suspect an average home uses at least 200 connections. 200 wire nuts is about $16. 200 Wagos is about $120. Yes, an extra $104 on a house isn’t a bit deal, but apply this thinking to 20 different aspects of the build and you’ve now added over $2,000. It is like weight when designing an airplane. An extra pound or two seems insignificant, but after this is added 200 times it makes a big difference.
@@LTVoyager You know, you are so right! Add to that things like Arc Fault breakers no required on almost all circuits in US and Canada and the cost go way up. So yeah - it all goes towards making things like houses less and less affordable.
Your right the insulation from the sheath has an effect - keeps things even hotter inside. Actually did a bunch of tests with romex in real situations such as in a 3x4 wall with various forms of insulation. Here is the playlist if your interested th-cam.com/play/PLHUfJmsprIcTVwSgCkTJnkinJSWrZY7DY.html
German Master Technician here. Wago is standard for years now. Twisting is a no go with 240 V. Some still use luster. Luster are used for centuries. Fine as well. Plastic is no worry at all. Wago are typically used as the ones you showed or as pushwires (no clips, twist to remove). Wago are the way to go if you don’t want to use luster. NEVER twist the wires. That is an absolute no go in Germany. Way too dangerous because of corrosion. You would fail any inspection.
Luster - just looked that up but got lots of results - are they the ones like this en.foerch.com/electrics-electronics/electro-installation/luster-plugin-terminal-flat-connector-bolt/terminal-strips?s=ProductGroup I remember seeing those in use in Germany, Iraq and South Africa when I was a kid (we moved around) , I have always liked them - have used them occasionally for control applications.
I'm married to these things. Have been using the lever-style WAGOs for several years and I have piles of both brand new WAGOs that I use for in-wall stuff, as well as a box of WAGOs that I reuse for temporaries and small projects. Haven't had a single failure, even with WAGOs I've reused a dozen times. With solid wire in the wall I usually wrap a bit of electrical tape around the WAGO body after connecting things up to prevent any accidental lever operation. One other issue with solid wire is that it is fairly easy to rotate the wire out, so I usually tape the wires coming out of the connector about an inch behind the connector to prevent any rotation. With stranded wire WAGOs are awesome, particularly when using ferrules. The smaller WAGOs can take 16 AWG ferrules with their plastic shield left on, nestling them nicely in the WAGO housing. The larger WAGOs can take 12 AWG ferrules with their plastic shield left on, also nesting them nicely in the WAGO. With the plastic shield taken off, lower AWGs work well. But I really love it when I can leave the plastic shield on the ferrule because it completely prevents and wiggling or rotation. So not only does it prevent any ratcheting of the wires, it also keeps the stranded wire clean allow disconnection and reconnection many times without any muss or fuss. Contact with the bus bar is still very good with ferruled stranded (its flat-to-flat) and, of course, WAGOs are specified to work with bare stranded too. But I prefer ferruling for all the above reasons. WAGO has numerous types, including an inline version of the smaller WAGO. I wish they had an inline version of the larger form factor though, unfortunately they don't. WAGOs do use a bit more space inside boxes but it isn't terrible. -Matt
"Haven't had a single failure, even with WAGOs I've reused a dozen times." That says a lot for Wagos! I would be hesitant to use wirenuts a dozen times. Interesting they work well with ferrules - I would have though they would be prone to slipping out the way you described with solid wire. I actually got a in-line one - didnt end up testing it - but sure could be convenient. Thanks for taking the time for posting your experience with them - detailed posts like yours are really very valuable info!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Yah, they don't slip out but you do have to make sure the ferrule is fully seated and you can see its end poking out past the bus-bar inside the WAGO (same as for a wire). The little hook that locks the wire in the WAGO is near the far end of the WAGO, so if you don't push the ferrule in far enough it won't lock and you can just pull it straight out. Easy to test. -Matt
So from your enthusiastic comment I you like WAGO !. Seriously you say 'WAGOs are awesome, particularly when using ferrules' well you are one of the few who in my book understand the potential weakness of the push fit design. That is when the cables size justifies a ferrule but that is time consuming and often a neglected thus mechanically compromising the electrical connection. junkerzn7312 I think I would very much approve of your work Best wishes.
"Contact with the bus bar is still very good with ferruled stranded (its flat-to-flat)" while technically true, the amount of contact varies quite a bit and depends on the crimper used. I've seen square, hexagon, octagon, and ones that are sort of trapezoidal but rounded on one end and concave on the other. That last one is the worst but octagonal isn't much better than round when you factor in deformation.
The lever springs don’t conduct any current, so they don’t generate any heat. But they do help to dissipate heat. The plastic of the connectors outlasted the insulation of the wires, so there’s nothing more to expect. 200 A for long enough to trip a good breaker is fine and won’t melt either when properly installed.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade I wonder what percent of readers know what copper coins in the fuse box even was! Liven in a few old houses with fuse boxes - but never tried that that trick!
Great idea and would be a very valid thing to test for - but that would really take a significant amount of time to do and right now really cant do that. Maybe in future.
@ maybe a 7day timer with a load bank ? See what fails and how it fails though that could take years but I’ve seen wago connections fail within a year then it turns into a warranty repair
Actually it was one of those connectors from those 6 inch puck lights for whatever reason the neutral failed and arched out inside the connection point
@@syitiger9072 Certainly could - but the issue then becomes fire safety in the event something happens. Yes - at 20A everything should be fine but presumably we are doing the test because there is a chance the connector fails.
Yep, I bought some recently and I looked at the specifications and they are just so massively overspecced for the household wiring that I'm sing on them, it was printed 450v and 32a on the connectors. Which is pretty much nuts, I can't imagine any residential setting ever getting anywhere near that.
Compared to wire nuts, the Wago style of connector requires less skill to do properly and the work can be inspected through the clear plastic. Wire nuts can't be checked without twisting them off first.
You know, you make a really good point! Thinking about it, it would be great if wirenuts were made with clear plastic to be able to somewhat inspect the connection (although the cone shaped spring inside would block part of the view).
It's the testing and verification bit where wago shines. Wire nuts are not at all hard to install. The manufacturer's instructions tell you all you need. Basically just strip the wires. Put all of them into the wire nut and just keep twisting until you get a couple twists outside of the wire nut and you're good to go. Wagos are just nice because you can visually see if you got the connection and can easily get a multimeter in to verify things if you need to.
They’re not hiding the ball on these things. There’s every bit of info available on how they work. So why are we cutting and guessing? I do like the test but I feel it would fail much faster if stuffed inside an electrical box. Also compare this to a twisted wire nut. From other tests I’ve seen, a properly used wire nut produces less heat for similar current. None of this is to suggest that Wagos aren’t fantastic and safe tech.
Yes! That why I do these tests outside (well close to the garage door). This time it wasnt windy so all the fumes went up any away. Other times with a light breeze even the highly diluted fumes are noxious.
Not really! With the very low power (100s or watts) and low current (>100A) the welder doesn't get warm or suffer at all. If I did an extended 250A test then the duty cycle would be an issue.
These have been the bane of my existence the past few weeks. Intermittent and oxidized connections. I mean, we are running microamps through them at 2 volts, in an environmental chamber with 120C temperature swings, with absurd humidity levels, so it's understandable why they fail. I finally convinced the engineer that we should just solder the wires for this testing.
Thats interesting because a number of people seem to think this connectors are flawless. I used to have access to a chamber like yours for mil-spec tests. It's always interesting what environmental conditions like you describe will do to things. And not just high end equipment - a car can experience absurd temperatures swings from hot summer to winter. Soldering - I have always felt soldering provides the best connections if done right (ie no cold solder joints). Have had a few arguments with others claiming that crimps are better - I cant prove them wrong but have yet to be convinced!
The test was current loading and most of the comments approving of this type of connection relate to current, however you have identified a problem which I have some experience of. Microamps are a pain to conduct and I would not recommend connecting conductors without a ferrel or tinned wire. Low amperage wiring is a completely different skill base and needs careful attention as it is a bugger to locate a faulting circuit. Your engineer should have known better and soldered the connections. Also watch out for H2S Hydrogen Sulfide, if copper is exposed to that then you are stuffed as it makes a brilliant semiconductor out of you switchgear. (another story I will not bore you with) I had a problem on a SCADA which cost three reduction gearboxes two motors, damaged machine frame and a lot of down time. A intermittent connection on the speed feedback loop from a taco to VSD caused the caterpillar drives to opposed each other from mis speed detection . Spectacular destruction. Best wishes
@@WOFFY-qc9te yeah, these wagos are great for their application. You are using them on 120V for normal household/light commercial use? They're great. Like, seriously UL Listed, over engineered, great! But take them to an application they aren't designed for, and they are flakey. I wonder if there's a lesson to be learned here about using the right tool for the job...
@@phillyphakename1255 120V ? we have 240 V angry pixies over here..... Somewhere els in the comments I recount a story of high Z signal connection creating carnage but I wont bore you with that. I agree with you I will say that data and high impedance signal circuits are not what these are made for, high z circuits have their own issues and normal electrical installation practice is not always appropriate. Electrician note anything below 5 volts you be wise to not offer a guarantee. A comment mentioned push fit unreliability but at the same time mentioned twisted house wires stuffed in a box. WAGO are only suitable for fresh straight conductors not previously terminated wire or oxidised house wiring. Also there should be zero mechanical stress on the connector so no stuffing wire in a small space but this should be good practice anyway.. And yes the right tool for the job, many moons ago I had a telephony installation company and did telephone exchange work, thousands of connections using IDC and you can guarantee the duff connection was done by a duff tool which is usually what I called the engineer after I sorted the fault. Best wishes
I stopped using these at work. A few years back they dumped a bunch of money in youtube so people starting reviewing them. Like a good robot I went out and bought a bunch. 3 years later I hate these things. The failure rate is way too high. In ideal circumstances these work just fine. But if you have to twist, bend, or roll the wires to stuff them in a tight space the chances that a wire is going to poop out is high.
What interesting is so far, all comments that had an opinion except yours and one other are very pro this type of connector. The other "dissenter" had a similar experience to yours. I wonder if there is situation that these connectors are bad for - you hinted at it "twist, bend, or roll the wires to stuff them in a tight space". You also mentioned 3 years - the time factor often really does tell how good things really are. I wonder what was causing yours to fail? Heat? Humidity? Vibration? I didnt know they flooded youtube with reviews - I guess thats how modern marketing works.
@@ElectromagneticVideos From my experience it was the tight spaces. Which is were I preferred using these because they would lay flatter than a traditional wire nut. And yes I fully understand box volumes and overstuffing but sometimes hey, in real life it happens. What I observed is that when contorting these into tight spaces the wire could turn freely inside the connector and a half turn under some tension could effectively screw the wire back out. Don't get me wrong its not like they were popping out every day. But even one every other job or soo was too many when you have to start pulling stuff apart to find the break. With wire nuts the twist of the wires together virtually prevents that problem for me, save a few very rare occasions I would call installer error.
For clarity I do still use wagos but only in temporary set ups. We use them to get power for light running fast and come back later and put the switches in after drywall and paint is done.
I agree with your experiences. I've torn wires in old houses and never ever seen a classic wire nut fail. If installed correctly, the connection is as strong and secure as an unbroken conductor. Wago is more error prone.
the probably isnt whether or not they "work" its what happens through the years of people having space heaters and AC units pulled in getting wires hot to cold mulitple times a hour for years with humidity in the air and maybe even salty air if you live near a ocean. Ive seen not properly installed wirenuts basically fall off after 6 years. as far as wago, i dont have enough data to know how i feel.
hot cold changes are no issue. The spring tension on the connection holds the wire in place. the wire cant work it self out like on screw terminals for example. Salty air should be no issue, the 221 are rated for naval installation. using them near the coast should be fine.
Interesting another commenter mentioned issues in a thermal chamber with hot cold cycling in humid conditions. You mentioned ocean conditions - I have seen terribly corroded (inside) junction boxes inside a beach-side place where I once stayed - I'm sure traces of salt was enough to corrode things, As you said - it what happens over years that can be an issue.
@@ElectromagneticVideos they probably mean it just wont burn your fishing boat down 🤣 they are probably high quality stainless or something but I would thing the resistance difference would show more.
The question if they survive 250 A is utterly irrelevant. They are not specified for this and will not have to survive such a high current in real use.
So the ones you have been using for 40 years - are they identical to the ones I used? And if so, are the 40 year old ones in good condition after a long period of use?
@@ElectromagneticVideos The Wago connectors today are pretty much the same as the ones we used back in the day, the older Wago connectors still provide a secure, reliable connection. Why wouldn't that be the case?
@@Dutch-Power-Cow Interesting! The reason for asking is plastics often deteriorate or get brittle over long periods of time. From you comment it sounds like the plastic in those Wagos seem to handle aging well.
In an actual installation, the hot and neutral run side-by-side inside something else. They don’t have cool, free air cooling them. A real test would be with a 20 A or 30 A circuit breaker in series and the conductors inside a piece of NM-B cable in the blazing sun on a hot day. Then you can demonstrate that the circuit breaker trips to protect the wiring and connectors before anything reaches 105°C.
Yes - I actually did a bunch of separate videos (look in my list of videos) where I test 14/2 cable inside walls, with and without insulation. The margin of safety goes way down ...
Thanks to one viewer, YT channel of Wago Australia has a video where they show how the wagos clamp the wire. Well worth looking at! th-cam.com/video/0Paddg10UPA/w-d-xo.html
Yes, you have things a bit turned around with how it works. The bent over piece works in conjunction with the bus bar. There are holes in the bus bar part where the bent over piece first and the wire goes in and protrudes further to make contact with the body of the bus bar. The bent piece wants to spring open and in doing so it clamps the wire against the inside of the cage ensuring the wire is strongly held, and also ensures the wire is in firm contact with the main body of the bus bar. The connector will continue hold onto the wires even if all the plastic is removed. The lever is there to release the wire, not cause it to be clamped.
Yup, I messed up. One other commenter provided this link to Wago Australia showing how the mechanism works. I put the link in a pinned comment so hopefully people will see it. th-cam.com/video/0Paddg10UPA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for providing the correct description how it works - very neat designs - and how it fails in a clamped state!
The people who successfully test these to destruction - around 100-200 amps - you will see the plastic melt off them while they keep working (albeit no longer insulated - but at that point so is the actual wire insulation)
I have been using Wago connectors for many years now and really love using them. I find myself buying many different versions that are super handy like the ones that can easily connect 5 wires together. I feel it's the easiest and safest way to connect multiple wire of varying size and type together. I have even bought the larger size now that will accept up to #10 wire and rated for 37A. They are so handy.
Excellent video! I think I enjoyed it even more than usual since we very recently had power and now somewhat of a internet connection restored. Helene was really rough on our area and many still don't have power. This is one of my first videos watched in a while. After over a week it's been a blessing to get back to somewhat normal!
Phillip, I never clued in that you would be Helene's path - glad your OK. Never been though a hurricane, but had a similar experience years ago in the great ice storm of '98 - I do appreciate how its nice getting to normalcy.
Your experience with them is interesting - you must have been one of the early adopters on this continent! Have you been using them for installed AC wiring? Or for inside devices/appliances/industrial equipment.
I assume the 37A version is just bigger all around? Thats an amazing amount of current for a connector like that.
@ElectromagneticVideos
I have used these for all sorts of wiring, including 3 phase motor wiring for small 3HP and under sizes. Never had any issues. I do like them much better than wire nuts. In the industry, we often have different size wires and some fine strands, some coarse strands connecting together, and it helps with that a lot. The only issue I have found is just as you mentioned, the lever can get caught on other wires when pushing into a junction box, etc. I am just cautious of that when reassembling. I think Ideal makes a version that has eliminated that issue with a different lever design, but I have not used them yet to say. Also, Wago makes a special junction box for the lever nut, and that may help with that issue as well. It makes it kinda like a terminal strip.
The 37A are simply scaled up, so yes, larger opening and slightly larger overall dimensions.
Canadian here. I absolutely love those connectors. Compared to marrettes, they are a pleasure. I do some experiments in electronics at home that I mount on wood boards for demos. I sometimes glue several connectors to the board in combination to a terminal block connector. It makes for a clean layout that makes my experiment easy to change or adjust.
Your the second one who mentioned that type of use - which I will have to remember - great for experimentation and demos.
Looked at your rotating Helmholtz coil - cool! You know, if you made 3 Helmholtz coils at 120 degrees from each other and ran them on a cheap 3 phase variable speed inverter (maybe a transformer for each coil as well) you could achieve the rotating field without moving the coil. Course would look as impressive not moving!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thanks for your comment! Yes, I thought about that. I was not sure that I could achieve exactly the same field as physically rotating the coils, especially in the periphery. Do you think it would create exactly that same field? In my mind, it's not clear what happens in the periphery when none of the coils are at peak phase. By periphery, I mean closer to the coils.
@@lematindesmagiciens8764 It should work pretty well. Three phase motors work by creating a uniform rotating field by using three coils 120 degrees apart. I did a simple example here th-cam.com/video/0aJlISxPh4s/w-d-xo.html although my coils were not setup for uniform field. One issue you may have the is the variable frequency drives use square wave pulse width modulated voltages to create the three phase. You might need a some simple filtering to make smooth sine wave - even just a step-down transformer may be enough to do it.
These Wago connectors have been used for around a decade here(UK). They are excellent, and very reliable provided you ensure you secure the wire. They are far more secure than screw terminals because those depend on the installer tightening every screw down properly and they always forget one.
Nowadays most junction boxes, and small fitted lights are sold with this Wago type terminal because they are much faster to fit.
So your junction boxes somehow have wago connectors built in? Or did I misunderstand that?
WAGO sell junction boxes with wago connectors. There are a whole lot of similar types now using the same lever system although not officially Wago. They are called "tool less junction boxes". These are now more popular than any screw terminal products. With regard to light fittings the lights have these wago type lever connectors, but they are not official WAGO connectors.
I've never seen a wire nut get left loose. Maybe you guys have morons building houses over there?
@@pt17171 I looked up the junction boxes - really neat. I wonder if they would be code compliant here in North America.
@@ElectromagneticVideos they are VERY compact - I don't know anyone installing lighting in Europe that doesn't use them. Similar style connectors are showing up on the back of socket plates and switches too.
Makes things much faster and more reliable than screws - I have a good feeling about them not a sense of dread (I've seen it all, done it all got the burns, etc in 40 years as a radio ham at high current DC so I've been abusing Wagos for a good 9 years solid)
Damn that’s cool, I was kinda concerned when I saw True start using these on their upright fridges on the compressor wiring. This video squashes those concerns
I wonder why they are using them? probably somehow makes assembly cheaper.
Thank you for showing us this, there are probably many of us who doubted the high current rating, you prove that they work.
Something that becomes more difficult to test is a slightly too high current, for a long time, perhaps several months, this scenario is more similar to real conditions.
Exactly - a few amps beyond the ratings for a long time. Unfortunately would make a long. boring video!
I sure manufacturers do tests like that. I also know there are rules of thumb that say things like a higher current for half the time = lower current for the full time, but you never really know how accurate that is.
Thank you for the great test.
Your welcome! Glad you liked it!
Push fit connectors; I was sceptical of this way of securing an electrical connection, I had an thermal inspection a new Flour mill that made use of this type of connection. The mill was run at normal loading and I inspected several thousand connections half of them being three phase >20 Amps. I found nothing indicating a high resistance with the thermal camera which surprised me as I would expect about 2% high resistance connections on contactors. Wago seems to be a sound system I would say that additional provision for strain relief to mitigate vibration stress is needed. The Wago electrical connection is not effected other than insulation by the removal of the plastic as the lever lifts the tension off the wire so if absent the connection is still made.
Ref camera, I have a similar one I use as my main camera takes five minutes for the stering cooler to chill the sensors, the hand held one cost me £100 and is very capable . Interesting study thanks.
Another story : I was asked to do a thermal inspection to ascertain the root cause of circuit failures in a plug and socket arrangement used to facilitate pre fabrication of office buildings. The system look robust and had reasonable sized contacts however the designer failed to take into account diversity ie many appliances drawing current at the same time from the same radial (240vac) circuit. The system was failing and repeatedly occurred the morning after a holiday when all staff were returning and the building heating up. The cause was all the heaters and vending machines starting at the same time overloading the plug connectors which overheated causing the spring tension in the plug and sockets to relax. The company reluctantly agreed with my analysis that the system was a not up to snuff and subsequently scrapped the project and rewired all buildings using the system as the insurance cover was withdrawn.
Wow - there is nothing like a real-world example with thousands of connectors in a harsh environment to prove something! Thanks for posting that example.
You mention strain relief - do you mean strain relief clamps when the cable goes into a junction box or somehow associated with the connector itself?
Your second example is also a great lesson. I know over here we have various rules for estimating the current use of certain appliances for circuit breaker panel size determination. Its also based on typical use probabilities. Your example sure shows how sometimes that sort of thing doesn't apply apply. Must have been tricky to sort out in the beginning - and even trickier to tactfully the the customer!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thanks for your reply. As a Thermographer (retired) I have seen many types of electrical kit and processes and inspected thousands of connection under load and have 15 years of thermograms somewhere.
Wago; their connectors are really for connecting circuits which are not exposed to movement and mechanical stress the point of contact like a chisel edge and the more you pull the deeper it will dig. The clip releases the tension and has no influence when closed.
Vibration could and will cause spring tension drive the contact deeper into the cable. So now we had a point of stress where vibration and other forces will separate the conductor. The electrical connection at norma temperatures ,
Thank you; new subscriber, and I am enjoying your testing. As an electrical contractor, the safety factors that you expose are of great interest. I have thought about presenting the following test, and possibly you would be interested in doing so (you have a much greater reach than I do): Coil an extension cord on a plastic cord reel. Next, hook up a 1500-watt portable space heater, and run the heater for a little while. Now uncoil the cord somewhat, and measure the heat coming off the inner coils of the cord, using a handheld infrared thermometer (maybe do a before-and-after-load temperature reading). This test would expose the dangers of leaving a power cord coiled while in use. What do you think?
So glad you subscribed. Actually in a more recent video, like a fool I almost inadvertently demonstrated what you described - had coiled extension cord providing the power for variac powering the test I was doing for the video. Lucky the current was low enough to not cause a problem, but it sure was warm. Yes that would be a very worthwhile thing so maybe this coming summer - I do all those things outside because if the noxious fumes and even if the wire only gets warm, there ls always the risk the demo is more effective than planned. I just added your comment to my list of videos to do.
Since your an electrical contractor, you might be interested in the videos I did with things like 14-2 in 2x4 wall embedding various types of insulation - here is one: th-cam.com/video/lFdSXTKsKwA/w-d-xo.html Bottom line - I found that with some of the best modern insulation on hot day, a cable carrying close to the rated current can get uncomfortably close to its temperature rating. Not something that seems to mentioned anywhere.
Please feel free to comment on any of the videos - some of the most interesting comments have come for electricians and electrical contractors who have seen so many things in real situations.
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thank you so much for the response. I will check out the link you provides, and look forward to seeing more of your videos.
I've seen John Ward do something like this with wago connectors in comparison to three other types of connectors. His test was to see which of the four (the other three being a wire nut and two different crimp connectors) would fail first in the event of a massive overvoltage. Surprisingly, apart from the plastic parts of the connectors melting off of the metal parts the wire was connected to and burning away, the wire overheated and failed before any of the connectors did with the failure point being right next to the wago connector. It was even still technically functional if you reconnected the circuit. This goes without saying that they're definitely worth it as well as the others that JW tested.
Just looked him up - seems to do very similar testing. From your descition similar results to what I got here. I'll have to look at his videos! Its really is amazing how much modern connectors can withstand.
@@ElectromagneticVideos IKR, it's also surprising since modern everyday things get lower and lower in tolerance and build quality all the time. But I guess that seems to not apply too well to electrical equipment unless it's a legitimately half-assed ripoff of things like fuses and amp meters
Has Anyone Tested the Ideal Brand (in-sure connectors)?
The problem with connectors in general is what they are made of.
I always get nervous with knock-offs and cheap brands like those sold all over Amazon because we do not know what materials they use. If they use cheaper plastic and metal in them, it could cause an actual fire, not a pretend one. For the few extra dollars, it is not worth playing that game. My home and everyone in it is worth the extra few bucks.
With electrical wiring, outlets and connectors I tend to stick to the name brands because they have been used for years, and you can find videos where a specific brand is tested. Not to mention that the certifications on the package for the name brands are real certifications and not just printed on the bag.
I recently had to change some outlets and I could not believe that outlets were so cheap. At H. Depot they were literally 60¢ for 120 VAC 15 Amp outlet (levitron bought in 10Pk). Something about the price being that cheap actually scares me LOL. A single Wago 221-2401 connector is 60¢
Obviously I know they make outlets in the millions and they are not some super hard thing to make but when one connector is the same cost of the outlet it just seems strange.
@@gags730 A massive percentage of them either use shitty, brittle plastic, undersized components, or deliberately miss-lable the products by using random parts of labels of several variants of the product being faked. Companies that make knock-off fuses tend to do this where they plaster a ten amp fuse with a twenty amp rating on the label with another fuse's color scheme, that doesn't match the fuse's size, or the falsely claimed rating that's on a legitimate twenty amp fuse.
@@samsimington5563 Sadly there are a lot of ripoff things - worst I have heard is Chinese circuit breakers that are just switches inside :(
After being introduced to these connectors by youtubers a few years ago I got some for myself and a few colleagues to try at work. We all love them. They are easy to use, are reusable and do little to no damage to the wire when applied and removed multiple times. And everyone who sees us use them are intrigued and wants to try them on their jobs. Even the instrumentation techs love them as they can easily break analog circuits to insert their calibration meters. Also, they have a port on the rear for test probes! I hate trying to jam my test leads into a marrette wondering if I am getting a good connection or not. We tend to use them for pilot duty circuits at 120V and less. Even though they are rated for 600V, we still use marrettes for most motor connections.
I wish I saw these connectors more readily available at local wholesale electrical suppliers (Ontario, Canada).
Thanks for the video! This is by far the best test video I have seen for these connectors.
Thanks! really appreciate that! I'm in Ontario too (near Ottawa)! I order mine from either Digikey or Newark which are more electronic parts suppliers than wholesale electrical suppliers Digikey usually gets orders I place delivered to me the next day, so not local but almost as good if thats an option for you.
Sounds like you are doing stuff in industry - have you ever had to have stuff inspected by ESA? They they have an comments about Wagos?
@@ElectromagneticVideos Good info re digikey, I will keep that in mind.
Yes, we are in regular contact with ESA, and are on the CSS program with them, we have all our facilities inspected every year. Our one off inspections are usually for temporary power wiring such as a portable generators when a stationary one suffers a failure. And our regular CSS inspections are always after the jobs are completed and the inspectors never ask to see field wiring or open junction boxes. Never had them ask about wago's.
@@danb4376 Interesting - I guess they just assume junction boxes are done properly.
I've just started them because I've seen enough videos of YT creators putting far more current through them than you'd be allowed to before anything bad happens. I also like the fact that they make it a bit easier to get a multi-meter in there to test things. They're also nice for when you're wiring in a smart device that you know isn't going to last decades. If you've got the lever nut integrated into an outlet or switch, it makes it super easy to swap them out as needed without needing to remove any of the other wires from the box to do it.
We use Wagos here in Germany for decades and nothing burned down or melted. But we don't use the lever ones most of the time because they are expensive. To connect solid to solid wire we use non-lever Wagos like 2273.
The lever Wagos are only used to connects solid to stranded or stranded to stranded wires.
And we don't push wires in the box as shown in 33:10, they get neatly folded in the boxes.
That interesting to hear - Ideal seems to make connectors similar to ones in your link that are widely available here but not sure who/for what they are typically used.
I wonder if your junction boxes are a bit bigger/more convenient to fold cables into that ours since you plugs a bigger?
The flour mill is where I was first introduced to push fit clamp connectors used in the control panels for the Buhler roller mill etc, nice machinery and very competent engineers.
@@WOFFY-qc9te Neat!
@@ElectromagneticVideos No, our wall boxes are much smaller than in the US. There's around 25mm of clearance behind the socket for wires and connections. If you don't do it neatly the socket will not fit inside the box.
The extra size of the 221 can really hurt in these applications (you are allowed to splice extra wires behind a socket in a 50mm deep box).
@@nervousbreakdown4506 Wow - sounds like there really isnt much space!
As a sparky working in France, 221-4xxs are generally used for a junction from solid core wire to flexible core. They're absolutely fabulous for that. We use far more of the S2273 series connectors when doing solid core to solid core. They have a far smaller footprint, far less danger of the lever getting flipped open, and are still rated at 24A / 450V IEC. We also use the 22-6xx series for bigger connections, particularly induction hobs; they handle up to 6mm which is what - 10 gauge? and are rated 41A / 450V.
I trust them with other people's lives...
Interesting to hear- was a similar comment from one of your German colleagues who mentioned the S2273 as well. "I trust them with other people's lives..." - you cant give them much more of an endorsement than that!
Thanks for commenting and greetings from Canada!
I am a bit late watching this video. There is a little known feature about Wago 121's. On the clear backside right behind the lever with the Wago label is a recesses test point so you can stick a volt meter probe in for testing. I found an off label use for these. I restore old radios and sometimes there is a loop antenna on the back of the radio which needs to be disconnected to remove the chassis. I glue the Wago to the chassis then use it like an old fanstock clip. Check out that little test point.
Thats really interesting - didnt know that! I'll keep that in mind - could be really useful for application like you describe where one needs an easy to use test point thats a bit better than an alligator clip
Very informative video. Thanks!
It occurs to me that a connector carrying high current for a long time, maybe only a few seconds, would do us a favor by making the connections open. That is, the connector would be a last-resort fuse.
Your welcome! You make an interesting point. Would the cost/complexity of such a fusible connector we a worthwhile thing? It would be interesting to hear if any/many electricians have seen melted wire from such situations and how common they are. There was a circuit breaker series from way back ( Federal Pacific / Federal Pioneer) that was notorious for not tripping. I wonder what the reliability of modern breakers is. I do think thin extension cords should have fuses built in for similar reasons since many of then can handle the typical 15A max very well.
Interest tangent, I am in the UK and the appliance plug has the appropriate replaceable fuse 1, 3, 5, 7, 10,or 13 Amp as our 'ring main' sockets are protected to 32Amps.
A fusible connector is probably not good as fuses degrade and it may go open for no good reason other than age. Also fuse rupture current can be ridiculously high or slow a resettable bimetallic fuse may be suitable.
Some British heating appliances and washing machines, toasters, Iron's etc have an inbuilt thermal fuse for extra safety but I question how many appliances are on the scrap heap because a simple inaccessible fuse has failed.
Don't get me on Federal Electric switchgear Best wishes
@@WOFFY-qc9te So you had that Federal Electric stuff too - didnt realize it was used outside of North America.
Your comment about thermal fuses is good one - have seen numerous things "break" over here as a result of those thermal fuses being installed in a way to never be replaced.
An I know you plugs well! Lived in various 220V countries as kid and have visited other more recently. Always though the ring circuit was a clever idea - although not without its own issues.
@@ElectromagneticVideos One of my clients was a rather large 'American Can' manufacture, they would ship in their own kit so that is where I came across Federal Electric, Also Apache Mainframe computers and Cincinnati machine tools which are wonderful bits of kit. When they closed the plant it was all packed up and sent Stateside.
Thermal fuse, a friends wife was nagging him to get a new washing machine as hers had stopped, I showed him where the fuse may be and gave him a spare, his wife was not at all pleased when he got the machine working as she had already picked out a replacement, beers on him.
Ring circuit, post war copper saving initiative and good for the time as the UK was creating the '440kV Supergrid' building power stations everywhere. We closed the last coal station last week.
I prefer radial circuits and loads of breakers like the US as my house is on four floors so I have three phase available shared across boards on each floor and another to the garden workshop. which means I have 415V between phase which could be fun if I cocked up.
Some very interesting contributors to the subject, the consensus is that WAGO (and the like ) when used on fresh straight non oxidised wire are fit for purpose. Best wishes.
@@WOFFY-qc9te I completely understand your experience with the American head office sending all their stuff to the foreign subsidiary- worked for a US company like that once and had the same experience
Great thermal fuse story - sometimes an excuse to upgrade is actually welcome :)
."We closed the last coal station last week. " Thats great - we have been gradually closing them down over here. I live in Ontario where we are something like 75% fossil fuel free - with electricity coming mostly from nuclear and hydro. I'm actually in the process of switching to electric heat - both lower cost these days and the bonus is its "green".
The nice things about your home is having three phase - most homes have split phase here, so all our induction motors are the capacitor or winding start types :(
"Some very interesting contributors to the subject" YES! That what I find so interesting about posting videos - often the comments are most interesting and usually I learn stuff from them. What makes these comments is hearing from countries that have been using these connectors way longer than we have and hearing the experiences.
Best wish to you to from Canada!
As a home owner and armature electrician I have been using Wago connectors for several years and find them to be an excellent option with no failures. They are a bit more expensive than other connections but the ease of use and space saving is worth the cost. Many times I find the "professional" electrician(s) that install switches and outlets meet or exceed the space capacity of receptacle boxes. This causes an issue when upgrading to GFCI or GFCI outlets with built in USB charges as the receptacles are much larger than a simple receptacle. To fit the new larger receptacles I often replace the wire nuts with Wago connectors and I then have the room needed; although, I do use electric tape to wrap the levers down so tjru don't get opened fighting the limited space inside the box. Lastly, even those who dislike the Wago must admit when connecting strand to solid core wire a Wago is superior. If you don't agree simple do a tug test with a Wago and wire nut.
"I do use electric tape to wrap the levers down" - thats probably a really good thing to do in our smaller junction boxes. Your point about larger receptacles - some are so huge! I also wander about the heat given of by the USB power electronics in a cramped junction box.
@@bruceisaacson8117 can’t call yourself an electrician without having a license. I am a journeyman electrician
A slightly uncommon use for Wago connectors is as reusable quick connections for bread board prototyping. I use these a lot as they can take pretty thin wires and clamp perfectly well onto 2.54mm crimped cables and multimeter probes.
That is a great idea - never thought of it - will have to remember that one!
I like to use Wago connectors on fixtures that come with stranded wire such as ceiling fans and exterior lighting. They provide a great transition from solid to stranded. They are also great when tight on space and you need to pigtail wires. But for all other permanent type connections or connections with many wires I much prefer the tried and true pre twist then wire nut. The wing type are my favorite and Ideal even makes a special drill bit for them which works great and relieves wrist strain.
Its funny - your comment is almost identical to that from that of a local electrician I know - and I couldn't agree more! They certainly are perfect or even idea for certain use cases.
While watching this video, it reminded me of the N.E.C. bend radius maximum radius. Maybe you could make a video showing what happens if you over bend the wire at the rated current of the wire... Excellent video 👍
I wonder if the damage from an overly tight bend is enough to make a significant enough defect to be noticeable in an overcurrent video. I'll have to do some experimentation - with the camera running in case it is the makings of a video. Alsdo looking doing an overcurrent test on some 1 awg Al cable I have from a boiler being installed at my house. Would be interesting to see what 5 6 7 800 amps might do - have been having some thoughts how to do that. Definitly an outside test in case these is a splatter of molten aluminum.
@@ElectromagneticVideosI have seen 12/2 with ground, and 14/2 w/ground wires melted in 2 due to poor receptacle installation into the box. For whatever reason, (not sure why) the neutral wire was always the one that failed. The wire bend was too sharp at the back of the receptacle. Also.... Both panel board's were located in garages during winter. I have no doubt this contributed to the failure. Thanks for your time and interest!
@@chopper5371 I am always fascinated by reports of things like that from people like you who see a lot of it in real situations.
I know some 14/2 and 12/2 cables had thinner grounds so may that why they melted. Or maybe without insulation they could be bent more shraply.
I am going too try the bend vs max current test - will depend on having some warm indian summer days because that has to be done outside becuase of the plastic fumes. I am looking ta a way of making cheap fume hood/chamber - looks like cheap sandblaster cabinet might work - that would make these tests possible in the winter!
I have seen these used exactly once...to connect copper to aluminum wire in a house built in the '70s. You can't find aluminum rated sockets and switches easily anymore, so he had created short copper leads and used Wago connectors to connect the copper to aluminum, allowing readily available copper-only sockets and switches to be used.
Interesting - I didnt think they were rated for aluminum. I know a common approach in my area is to do what you described but with Al to Cu rated wire nuts and anti-oxidation grease on the twisted wires.
@@ElectromagneticVideos They are rated for Cu/Al connection, but only with their Alu-Plus paste. However, majority of electricians in Europe don't have any of that paste and the connector still works fine.
@@UhOhUmm They are rated for Cu/Al? I didnt know that. So they do Cu-AL in Europe without the past? I'm also amazed at that!
When there is a mix of stranded and solid wires, nothing works better than a WAGO.
That seems to be the consensus!
Very nice testing. You have made me wonder how a wire nut connection would perform under the same test environment.
Thanks - actually they do as well or better. Haven't done a dedicated video on them (yet) but there was one at the end of the cable in this video th-cam.com/video/9vkMeyAx7o4/w-d-xo.html and we took it apart afterwards (not in the video) and besides the plastic deforming somewhat, the connection was in perfect condition (amazingly so).
Canadian here also! yes I saw John Wards video also, My opinion of these is as Big Clive says about the electrcian in a day that can be had in the UK! thats all these are about they are easy but in My opinion after 44 years as a Millwright/Industrial Electrcian give Me Marrette Black all day long they don't melt! all this stuff today melts, anyway I still vote for the Marrette Black made of Bakelite ! Thats a Nice Miller Welder You Got there : )
I have a few of those old Bakelite Marettes somewhere! Bakelite was a fabulous early plastic(?) and seems to withstand aging very well. I wonder why they changed to the modern softer plastics? Probably cost!
It is a wonderful old welder! I actually picked it up a our local Habitat ReStore for $100 after it had been reduced in price week after week with no-one buying it. Its built like a tank, welds really well, and turned out to be so useful for these sort of "unusual" uses.
Millwright. Sir, I hear you and I too had concern about these new fangled connectors but as mention in my other comments after inspecting thousands of circuits I have to say that when installed CORRECTLY they work.
However a Bakelite (Henley) JB will give you plenty of notice from the pungent emissions of formaldehyde that something is amiss, that sweet memorable smell leading you to a pile of trouble and a cheque but at least you can take comfort knowing that the motor windings may be chooched, Dante's inferno is contained.
Has AVE done any tests.? .. This Brit send much respect to a Canadian Millwright.
@@ElectromagneticVideos Bakelite is a thermoset which means it irreversibly cures. Most plastics we use today are thermoplastics, they can be reshaped by heat (but we still use some thermosets like epoxy, polyurethanes, vulcanised rubber).
So instead of transporting large vats of toxic formaldehyde and phenol that are needed to produce bakelite, we can ship solid pellets that are then melted and pressed or injected.
Also while I was looking this up: apparently bakelite contains fillers to give it strength. This filler was usually wood pulp…. Or asbestos!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thats a Lucky find to be sure, I worked at Featherlite Ladders for 18.50 years and it welded Jaws ladders together for most of that time ( well a Person did ) Miller made/makes based on that of what I know a Quality outfit
@@WOFFY-qc9te Yes and as the wires as was stated in this video are twisted together that is the clicher as I see it also there is a method to the use of Marrettes and each use needs a good tug test to check it was done properly! , I wont use those Wago or diravation of at all, well I am mostly retired so I won't get into that as once was anyway! but nothing is perfect! Cheers!
Thanks for the destructive testing!
I'm a big fan of WAGOs. They are so handy for test setups. I like wiring the source to the center and the loads to the outside terminals.
I have wondered about the current capacity for heavy stranded THHN and fine stranded speaker wire.
I'm also a fan of wrapping both wire nuts and WAGOs with electrical tape. To prevent and accidental removal.
Destructive testing is always fun! Good point about source in the center - good way to minimize current flow and distance on the connection metal.
Now that you say it, I wounder how the connection works with very fine strands like that. From what we have seen, my guess is that wire acts like a fuse long before the cable.
Someone else mentioned electrical tape - seems like a great idea. What would be really nice is if they made a cover to do that.
The 221 series are rated to ambient temperatures of 85c and then have their rated load put through them. Under load they are allowed to go up to 105c continuously but won't fail until much higher. 85c exceeds normal PVC (60c in the USA I think, usually around 75c elsewhere for normal installations). 95c exceeds standard XLPE insulation. It's to be expected that a connector will take any punishment that the wires that are connected to it can. The 222 has a max ambient of 40c and a max continuous operating of 85c. Lower than the polycarb 221 but still in excess of PVC insulation where they are commonly used. I compared the additional circuit resistance the 221 added vs a circuit using common tunnel type connector used in Australia (twist wires, place into terminal, do up screw). It was only a matter of milliohms so in any sane wiring system to use of Wagos makes no practical difference to circuit resistances and is less prone to installation error.
I didn't clue in that they were rated for ambient 85C - wow. That really great to hear - I have long been concerned with cables/connectors in attics that can easily get crazy hot in the summer (and probably even more extreme for you in Australia) particularity when covered in insulation.
@@ElectromagneticVideos I have an older house so all it had in most rooms was a single 100W incandescent light so full load was about 4.5A at 240V. Cable was 1.5mm so carried that easily. Lights normally on at night only so the roof temperature was falling. After 65 years of that the wiring in the roof was still in good order but at the fittings the heat rising from the bulbs themselves had cooked the PVC insulation on the wires and it had started to go brittle.
Great comment and info thanks, what is important when getting a connector like the WAGO is;
(A) The conductors are plated spring steel and not copper or alloy or other magic spices from China.
(B) That the enclosure is only for insulation and releasing the spring tension for assembly. That way any thermal distortion of the insulation will not compromise the conductors mechanical function.
(C) Don't use aluminium conductors
Best wishes.
@@retrozmachine1189 You know, years ago I lived in an older house and some of the wiring insulation probably done the 1950s showed signs of brittling in the boxes just like you described. Interesting, it was even sin come boxes without lamp fixtures and it was only the section of wire exposed to air (ie not protected by the outer cable sheath). I had assumed it was the air exposure that allowed to plastic to dry out.
@@WOFFY-qc9te Great summary! I never thought about aluminum - I wonder how the oxidation issues would come into play with a spring loaded connector like the Wago. Over here most (all?) houses were wired with aluminum in the late 1960s and early 70s until the oxidation issues started causing fires.
That is impressive. Thank you for the video.
Thanks! I was amazed how well they performed!
Nice test. Wagos have got quite popular here in the UK, and are now showing up built into many accessories - so you can get sockets with wago terminals rather than screw terminals. Makes installation (and testing) much quicker and easier. You point about high currents due to faults or inrush is also true, but in reality can usually be ignored because they are very short duration. In circuit design here is it common to use the "adiabatic equation" as specified in the wiring regs to verify that a wire of a particular Cross Sectional Area (CSA) will withstand the over current for long enough to allow the protective device to clear the fault. The equation is normally phrased as:
s = sqrt( i^2 x t ) / k
Where s is the CSA of the wire in mm^2, i is the fault current, t the time to clear the fault in seconds, and k a factor to represent the type of insulation material used on the wire, and its thermal performance (115 for PVC). The equation also assumes that the starting condition is with the wires at the nominal maximum core temperature - so for PVC clad wire, 70 °C.
So say you have a 230V circuit wired 2.5mm^2 Twin and Earth cable (typically with a 1.5mm^2 earth / circuit protective conductor), and it is fed from a B20 miniature circuit breaker (MCB), and a total Earth loop impedance of 0.5 Ohm. Now you accidentally stick a nail through a cable to create a line to earth short. You can check whether the earth wire will be of adequate cross section to survive the fault without failing, catching fire, or vaporising in an arc fault etc:
Total Fault Current = 230 / 0.5 = 460A
For faults in excess of 5x the nominal rating of the MCB with a B trip curve, it will operate on its "fast" magnetic response, and clear the fault in
Very interesting that you do that sort of calculation and thanks for taking the time explain is so well! From what I gather (and I stand to be corrected) over here it is less common to calculate that sort of thing - I think we rely on things having one size fits all.
Interestingly myself and a friend have been experimenting with taking very slow mo video breakers opening. It is amazing how fast they open, but we still have to enhance our setup to determine the delay between over-current and the opening sequence.
Even with calculations like the one you presented, its always amazing to me how well things can withstand massive yet short overcurrents!
@@ElectromagneticVideos For most electrical installation work, that level of detailed calculation is not required, since there are a number of very well tested "standard" circuits that will serve the most of the common requirements for general purpose lighting and socket circuits.
It is only when you need a bespoke design for a particular bit of high power equipment, or for particularly adverse installation conditions like long cable runs, or higher that ideal earth loop impedance where the adiabatic check comes in handy as final sanity check on a design. Bespoke designs can then factor in the effects of different types of circuit protection (e.g. rewireable fuses are slower than cartridge fuses or MCBs), thermal factors like cable grouping, ambient temperature, cables running in insulation, and also checking that voltage drop remains within limits.
In general though the standard installations are remarkably robust and tolerant; one can think up scenarios where they ought to fail or be out of spec, but in reality problems are very rarely experienced.
@@johnrumm4786 Ok - so that's a lot like it is here!
That's why testing is important, so the thing doesn't go on fire in your walls etc if a fault current happens for whatever reason.
Couldn't agree more! I find it very comforting to see just amazing much these things can withstand to handle faults.
Yes, although as long as it's UL rated for whatever the specs are and those specs are above the demands you're putting on them, it should be fine. Also, keep in mind that for new wiring, AFCI is required for a lot of that, and that should protect against the kinds of arcs that lead to fires. But, really, to a large extent the more you can do to make things safer the better.
I'm on a roll today, for damp area use they have a gel filled box to make them waterproof but really any gel box will do the job.
Thats neat - someone mentioned they were rated for damp locations - must need the box for that.
Nice test. You should, if possible, also run the same test with both the (1) IDEAL 30-05L23 "In-Sure" level wire connectors, and, if you can obtain them up in the Great White North, the (2) Harbor Freight's "Pittsburgh Compact Lever" wire connectors.
Really the main drawbacks for these sort of connectors are (a) cost - compared to wire nuts, and (2) institutional mentality in favor of wire nuts. Both have a place within electricity/electronics.
Looks like I can get the Ideal ones on amazon, but the harbour freight ones - next time I'm visiting the US (always wanted to visit harbour freight!). Interesting thing about harbour freight one - they really look copied from wago, whereas the Ideal ones a clearly different at least in appearance.
Your so right about the drawbacks - even though the code apparently does allow things rated by the manufacturer/UL/CSA etc to be used, I could see an electrical inspector/home inspector not being happy with something unfamiliar. With labour costs so high these days, I wonder if cost would work out in the end when one figures in the time savings. Then again, I'm sure experienced electricians can apply wire nuts in record time.
I think the lever nuts make even more sense on outlets and switches that you anticipate having to replace. If you've got a short braided pigtail to connect it back to the circuit and lever nuts on the actual item to be replaced, it's a matter of a few seconds to perform the swap. Really, it takes longer to get the old one unscrewed and the new one screwed in than actually messing with the wires. And with the trend being smarter switches, it's probably going to be something that you see more of going forward.
Can u show us how u set up the test thats a cool setup
Are you asking for a video describing and showing the complete setup for this type of test? I can certainly o that sometime!
@@ElectromagneticVideos yes that would be interesting im mainly interested on how you are making the amprage and at what voltage
@@syitiger9072 OK - I'll definitely do a video on that!
my experience has been neither positive, nor negative, it has been alternating because I'm using them on AC circuits after all. I've always been disappointed at how wire nuts do with stranded wire. You really have to be careful to make sure they catch. So as much as I like twisting the wires together for solid core and using a wire nut I think wago's are my go to for anything stranded or anything transitioning to stranded. Perfect example is the ceiling fan or light fixtures, although if it's not gonna change that often and I might just do wire nuts I have a few hundred. But I did wire up a whole bunch of receptacles with stranded wire in conduit and it just made more sense to buy a pack of Wago's and do them that way as an I was guaranteed not have any issues with joining the stranded conductors. I also needed to do a lot of loop throughs as I was putting in I think it was 6 twist locks and all of them were dedicated circuits apart from the 2x20 amp receptacles Sharing with two of the locking receptacles. Movie Theater media rack, pretty much every amp got its own dedicated circuit and then a always on circuit for the server. Eventually the goal is to put a contactor in to switch the amps off with one switch, so I would have to switch 4 separate 20 amp circuits and then have to always on circuits for the rest of the equipment.
Interesting and I think your experience really nails it - they excel for stranded wires.
Sounds like a nice setup! If its a home theatre, if you are looking for contractors, look up ones for HVAC AC units (which I stumbled across a few years ago) - they are produced in such quantities the prices are a fraction of the cost "industrial" ones.
I would have put this in the previous comment but youtube seems to penalise me if I edit things too many times. The plastic body of the connector performs no part of holding the wires. It's there for insulation and to hold the plastic levers that actually force the cage open to release the wires. Take all the plastic away and that sucker isn't letting go easily.
I may have to try an take another one apart - I'm really curious now!
@@ElectromagneticVideos I can second that. The plastic is only for opening the connection. What fails when those things get hot is that the metal springs lose their tension at about the same temperature as the plastic starts to burn. In addition, the contact area to the bus bar gets smaller, as it turns away from the wire (it only has hooks on one side), increasing the resistance and temperature.
But for short-term overloads, those factors are a non-issue. The bus bar has a higher cross-section than the wires, and the contact area is larger than the cross-section of the wires, too. This means that a WAGO clamp needs thermal build-up to fail and will not act as a fuse (i.e. fail at the conductor).
@@HenryLoenwind I really like the fact that the metal itself holds provides the clamping pressure and the lever undoes it.
Do you think it could handle 60 amps long term though? I always wonder with tests like this what effect the amount of time might make.
Your absolutely right - for an extended period of time they may not do so well. If nothing else, the warmth may cause the plastic to deteriorate/brittle over time.
Hope someday they make these bigger, example for 4mm banana connectors
Pretty sure they won't go above 6mm^2. 4mm banana connectors would be 12mm^2, and in that range the contact surface becomes an issue. There are lever style connectors for cables this size for fixed DIN rail installation or PCB connections (larger bc of the larger internal contact area), but I very much doubt that there will ever be some for connecting free floating cables.
I agree with @wernerviehhauser94
@wernerviehhauser94 response to you comment - the tiny contact surface would become an issue. I'm amazed these work so well!
Interesting video!
Thanks!
I guess the increase temp in the connector might significantly be due to thermal conduction from the hotter wires. Maybe try higher and shorter gauge wire if possible.
I'd guess the current rating might be due to the properties of the plastic components in particular. I'm guessing it would become very brittle with many cycles of thermal changes. Unless it's engineered to max rate a fraction of the current capacity of its highest gauge wire allowing for poor practice connections etc.
Very impressive though. Really nice to see the margin of safety.
Thanks :)
Your right about heat from the wires - particularity when they were glowing red hot from 250A.
I think your right about the limiting factor being the plastic - but as you said, very impressive though! And a great margin of safety. They can certainly handle 15A or 20A without the slightest issue!
The rating is not as much determined by the properties of the plastics but by the temperature delta. There's only so much rise in temperature you want to have at any point of your electrical installation. You certainly want to stay away from the maximum your plastics are rated for, but getting to 89.9C isn't a good idea either.
27:40 on the YT channel of Wago Australia there's a video where they show how the wagos clamp the wire.
At around 0:50 -> th-cam.com/video/0Paddg10UPA/w-d-xo.html
I wish I has seen that - would have asked then to use the clip! I will post the link in a sticky comment at the top! Thanks!
I have used those connectors for 80 amps split left and right and they have held up for a few years now.
Wow - that says a lot for them! What are you using them for and what percentage of the time are are they in use? If they are in use a considerable percentage of the time and have withstood 80 Amps its really amazing!
@@ElectromagneticVideos They are just for at home fuckery. Usually loaded with DC at 100% 80amps for a few hours each. Battery testing mostly. Voltage drop is high but hey I just need it to fex a temporary issue....I had a few years back
@@AlpineTheHusky Still very impressive! The split left-right configuration probably helps a lot since it seemed a lot of the heat was created on the metal strip that connects all three contacts.
@@ElectromagneticVideos Yeah its more like 40 amps actual and I think its 4mm² wire so very big
@@AlpineTheHusky A significant current nevertheless!
I've yet to use the clear wagos, I'm still going through my big box of the grey/gray ones (the 222s, I like them better than the clear ones).. Never had any issues with them.
I wonder how the plastic compare? Historically clear plastics have always seemed brittler than cloudy ones, but the clear plastic on the connectors I tried did not seem brittle at all. Modern plastics are amazing!
wire nuts often have teh problem when pushing into an outlet the wires will become disconnected... this is not an issue just with wagos. I use them on renovations where the small outlet box size prohibits wire nuts without undue pressures when screwing the outlet into the box or when multiple wires are connected and there is a chance of them coming apart in the box.
A few others have mentioned using them with the small outlet box issue - seems like a good use case for them!
No, the issue with wagos in that situation is the lever accidentally catching. Wire nuts won't come off if they're properly installed. As in a number of wires within the rated number, them being put into the wire nut untwisted and the wire nut twisted until you get a couple of twists to the wire outside of the nut. And, if that isn't enough for you, you can always put a wrap or two of electrical tape around the nut and wire just to make sure that it never vibrates free. But, that's not really necessary if you're using the right wire nut and have properly twisted it on.
No tool or supply is going to work reliably if not installed correctly. A properly installed wire nut is probably ever so slightly less likely to pull apart as move it in and out of the box. But, really, the difference is minuscule and you can always apply tape tot he wago if it's that much of a concern.
The only real downside to Wagos is the cost. Last time I checked, they were far more costly than wire nuts. I bought two boxes of wire nuts 30 years ago and still have yet to use them all doing around the house projects. For a professional, the saving in labor might offset the cost, but it doesn’t take long to install a wire nut so not sure the economics are really there.
With labour rates so high these days, I wonder if cost of Wagos , though expensive, is simply inconsequential compared to the $150/h cost of an electrician.
@ That is likely the thinking, but I’m not sure it holds water. Stripping the wire takes the same amount of time for both so omitting that, we are talking about saving a few seconds at best. I can install a wire nut in about 4 seconds with usually about 4 twists of the wrist. A Wago is going to take two seconds. So, you might save two seconds per connection. $150 an hour is 4.2 cents per second so you might save 8.4 seconds per connection. My local Home Depot gets $14.48 for 180-pack of mixed yellow and red wire nuts or about 8 cents each. The same store gets $5.97 for a box of 10 two terminal Wagos or 60 cents each. It would take a very slow electrician to save 52 centers per connection as that would require taking 13 seconds longer to install a wire nut than a Wago. That seems a stretch, but I guess if all you can hire are really slow electricians…
@@LTVoyager Very good point - its really not a huge time saving. My guess is its is the easy ability to disconnect and the clicking lever is a bit easier than twisting a wire nut. And electricians get paid so much these days the cost of the Wago is small compared to the cost of the labour anyway.
@@ElectromagneticVideos I suspect that is the thinking and that is just one reason homes are so expensive these days. If this thought process is applied throughout the build by every trade, the net effect is pretty large. I suspect an average home uses at least 200 connections. 200 wire nuts is about $16. 200 Wagos is about $120. Yes, an extra $104 on a house isn’t a bit deal, but apply this thinking to 20 different aspects of the build and you’ve now added over $2,000. It is like weight when designing an airplane. An extra pound or two seems insignificant, but after this is added 200 times it makes a big difference.
@@LTVoyager You know, you are so right! Add to that things like Arc Fault breakers no required on almost all circuits in US and Canada and the cost go way up. So yeah - it all goes towards making things like houses less and less affordable.
You should do this test in the Romex sheath since it is the residential choice in North America.
Your right the insulation from the sheath has an effect - keeps things even hotter inside. Actually did a bunch of tests with romex in real situations such as in a 3x4 wall with various forms of insulation. Here is the playlist if your interested th-cam.com/play/PLHUfJmsprIcTVwSgCkTJnkinJSWrZY7DY.html
German Master Technician here. Wago is standard for years now. Twisting is a no go with 240 V. Some still use luster. Luster are used for centuries. Fine as well. Plastic is no worry at all. Wago are typically used as the ones you showed or as pushwires (no clips, twist to remove).
Wago are the way to go if you don’t want to use luster. NEVER twist the wires. That is an absolute no go in Germany. Way too dangerous because of corrosion. You would fail any inspection.
Luster - just looked that up but got lots of results - are they the ones like this en.foerch.com/electrics-electronics/electro-installation/luster-plugin-terminal-flat-connector-bolt/terminal-strips?s=ProductGroup
I remember seeing those in use in Germany, Iraq and South Africa when I was a kid (we moved around) , I have always liked them - have used them occasionally for control applications.
@@ElectromagneticVideos yup, those are the ones. We call them „Lüsterklemme“. They were the standard in the past.
Lüsterklemme = screw terminal block
@@nematube Danke! I will remember that!
Never twist teh wires? Funny. This is what wirenuts do and have done for decades; and it provides the most stable connection.
I'm married to these things. Have been using the lever-style WAGOs for several years and I have piles of both brand new WAGOs that I use for in-wall stuff, as well as a box of WAGOs that I reuse for temporaries and small projects. Haven't had a single failure, even with WAGOs I've reused a dozen times.
With solid wire in the wall I usually wrap a bit of electrical tape around the WAGO body after connecting things up to prevent any accidental lever operation. One other issue with solid wire is that it is fairly easy to rotate the wire out, so I usually tape the wires coming out of the connector about an inch behind the connector to prevent any rotation.
With stranded wire WAGOs are awesome, particularly when using ferrules. The smaller WAGOs can take 16 AWG ferrules with their plastic shield left on, nestling them nicely in the WAGO housing. The larger WAGOs can take 12 AWG ferrules with their plastic shield left on, also nesting them nicely in the WAGO. With the plastic shield taken off, lower AWGs work well. But I really love it when I can leave the plastic shield on the ferrule because it completely prevents and wiggling or rotation. So not only does it prevent any ratcheting of the wires, it also keeps the stranded wire clean allow disconnection and reconnection many times without any muss or fuss.
Contact with the bus bar is still very good with ferruled stranded (its flat-to-flat) and, of course, WAGOs are specified to work with bare stranded too. But I prefer ferruling for all the above reasons.
WAGO has numerous types, including an inline version of the smaller WAGO. I wish they had an inline version of the larger form factor though, unfortunately they don't. WAGOs do use a bit more space inside boxes but it isn't terrible.
-Matt
"Haven't had a single failure, even with WAGOs I've reused a dozen times." That says a lot for Wagos! I would be hesitant to use wirenuts a dozen times.
Interesting they work well with ferrules - I would have though they would be prone to slipping out the way you described with solid wire.
I actually got a in-line one - didnt end up testing it - but sure could be convenient.
Thanks for taking the time for posting your experience with them - detailed posts like yours are really very valuable info!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Yah, they don't slip out but you do have to make sure the ferrule is fully seated and you can see its end poking out past the bus-bar inside the WAGO (same as for a wire). The little hook that locks the wire in the WAGO is near the far end of the WAGO, so if you don't push the ferrule in far enough it won't lock and you can just pull it straight out. Easy to test.
-Matt
So from your enthusiastic comment I you like WAGO !.
Seriously you say 'WAGOs are awesome, particularly when using ferrules' well you are one of the few who in my book understand the potential weakness of the push fit design. That is when the cables size justifies a ferrule but that is time consuming and often a neglected thus mechanically compromising the electrical connection.
junkerzn7312 I think I would very much approve of your work Best wishes.
@@WOFFY-qc9te Thanks to both of you for such informative comments!
"Contact with the bus bar is still very good with ferruled stranded (its flat-to-flat)" while technically true, the amount of contact varies quite a bit and depends on the crimper used. I've seen square, hexagon, octagon, and ones that are sort of trapezoidal but rounded on one end and concave on the other. That last one is the worst but octagonal isn't much better than round when you factor in deformation.
The lever springs don’t conduct any current, so they don’t generate any heat. But they do help to dissipate heat.
The plastic of the connectors outlasted the insulation of the wires, so there’s nothing more to expect.
200 A for long enough to trip a good breaker is fine and won’t melt either when properly installed.
Exactly - a great summary!
So as long as you dont go to 200a, this should be good?
That wasn't quite the message I was trying to get across :)
@@ElectromagneticVideos So you say, all I'm hearing is that I can go back to using copper coins in my fusebox with these bad boys. /jk
@@SmallSpoonBrigade I wonder what percent of readers know what copper coins in the fuse box even was! Liven in a few old houses with fuse boxes - but never tried that that trick!
Maybe do thermal cycles heat up cool down multiple different days 20 amps max
Great idea and would be a very valid thing to test for - but that would really take a significant amount of time to do and right now really cant do that. Maybe in future.
@ i wonder if there’s an automatic set up tha u can do
@ maybe a 7day timer with a load bank ? See what fails and how it fails though that could take years but I’ve seen wago connections fail within a year then it turns into a warranty repair
Actually it was one of those connectors from those 6 inch puck lights for whatever reason the neutral failed and arched out inside the connection point
@@syitiger9072 Certainly could - but the issue then becomes fire safety in the event something happens. Yes - at 20A everything should be fine but presumably we are doing the test because there is a chance the connector fails.
Wago connectors were tested so many times that testing one more time is not necessary.
Yep, I bought some recently and I looked at the specifications and they are just so massively overspecced for the household wiring that I'm sing on them, it was printed 450v and 32a on the connectors. Which is pretty much nuts, I can't imagine any residential setting ever getting anywhere near that.
Compared to wire nuts, the Wago style of connector requires less skill to do properly and the work can be inspected through the clear plastic. Wire nuts can't be checked without twisting them off first.
You know, you make a really good point! Thinking about it, it would be great if wirenuts were made with clear plastic to be able to somewhat inspect the connection (although the cone shaped spring inside would block part of the view).
It's the testing and verification bit where wago shines. Wire nuts are not at all hard to install. The manufacturer's instructions tell you all you need. Basically just strip the wires. Put all of them into the wire nut and just keep twisting until you get a couple twists outside of the wire nut and you're good to go.
Wagos are just nice because you can visually see if you got the connection and can easily get a multimeter in to verify things if you need to.
They’re not hiding the ball on these things. There’s every bit of info available on how they work. So why are we cutting and guessing? I do like the test but I feel it would fail much faster if stuffed inside an electrical box. Also compare this to a twisted wire nut. From other tests I’ve seen, a properly used wire nut produces less heat for similar current. None of this is to suggest that Wagos aren’t fantastic and safe tech.
Don't breathe this stuff! 💨😄👍
Yes! That why I do these tests outside (well close to the garage door). This time it wasnt windy so all the fumes went up any away. Other times with a light breeze even the highly diluted fumes are noxious.
your welder is screaming something about "20% duty cycle"
Not really! With the very low power (100s or watts) and low current (>100A) the welder doesn't get warm or suffer at all. If I did an extended 250A test then the duty cycle would be an issue.
These have been the bane of my existence the past few weeks. Intermittent and oxidized connections.
I mean, we are running microamps through them at 2 volts, in an environmental chamber with 120C temperature swings, with absurd humidity levels, so it's understandable why they fail.
I finally convinced the engineer that we should just solder the wires for this testing.
Thats interesting because a number of people seem to think this connectors are flawless. I used to have access to a chamber like yours for mil-spec tests. It's always interesting what environmental conditions like you describe will do to things. And not just high end equipment - a car can experience absurd temperatures swings from hot summer to winter.
Soldering - I have always felt soldering provides the best connections if done right (ie no cold solder joints). Have had a few arguments with others claiming that crimps are better - I cant prove them wrong but have yet to be convinced!
The test was current loading and most of the comments approving of this type of connection relate to current, however you have identified a problem which I have some experience of. Microamps are a pain to conduct and I would not recommend connecting conductors without a ferrel or tinned wire. Low amperage wiring is a completely different skill base and needs careful attention as it is a bugger to locate a faulting circuit. Your engineer should have known better and soldered the connections. Also watch out for H2S Hydrogen Sulfide, if copper is exposed to that then you are stuffed as it makes a brilliant semiconductor out of you switchgear. (another story I will not bore you with)
I had a problem on a SCADA which cost three reduction gearboxes two motors, damaged machine frame and a lot of down time. A intermittent connection on the speed feedback loop from a taco to VSD caused the caterpillar drives to opposed each other from mis speed detection . Spectacular destruction.
Best wishes
@@WOFFY-qc9te yeah, these wagos are great for their application. You are using them on 120V for normal household/light commercial use? They're great. Like, seriously UL Listed, over engineered, great!
But take them to an application they aren't designed for, and they are flakey. I wonder if there's a lesson to be learned here about using the right tool for the job...
@@phillyphakename1255 120V ? we have 240 V angry pixies over here.....
Somewhere els in the comments I recount a story of high Z signal connection creating carnage but I wont bore you with that.
I agree with you I will say that data and high impedance signal circuits are not what these are made for, high z circuits have their own issues and normal electrical installation practice is not always appropriate. Electrician note anything below 5 volts you be wise to not offer a guarantee.
A comment mentioned push fit unreliability but at the same time mentioned twisted house wires stuffed in a box. WAGO are only suitable for fresh straight conductors not previously terminated wire or oxidised house wiring. Also there should be zero mechanical stress on the connector so no stuffing wire in a small space but this should be good practice anyway..
And yes the right tool for the job, many moons ago I had a telephony installation company and did telephone exchange work, thousands of connections using IDC and you can guarantee the duff connection was done by a duff tool which is usually what I called the engineer after I sorted the fault.
Best wishes
I stopped using these at work. A few years back they dumped a bunch of money in youtube so people starting reviewing them. Like a good robot I went out and bought a bunch. 3 years later I hate these things. The failure rate is way too high. In ideal circumstances these work just fine. But if you have to twist, bend, or roll the wires to stuff them in a tight space the chances that a wire is going to poop out is high.
What interesting is so far, all comments that had an opinion except yours and one other are very pro this type of connector. The other "dissenter" had a similar experience to yours. I wonder if there is situation that these connectors are bad for - you hinted at it "twist, bend, or roll the wires to stuff them in a tight space". You also mentioned 3 years - the time factor often really does tell how good things really are. I wonder what was causing yours to fail? Heat? Humidity? Vibration?
I didnt know they flooded youtube with reviews - I guess thats how modern marketing works.
@@ElectromagneticVideos From my experience it was the tight spaces. Which is were I preferred using these because they would lay flatter than a traditional wire nut. And yes I fully understand box volumes and overstuffing but sometimes hey, in real life it happens. What I observed is that when contorting these into tight spaces the wire could turn freely inside the connector and a half turn under some tension could effectively screw the wire back out. Don't get me wrong its not like they were popping out every day. But even one every other job or soo was too many when you have to start pulling stuff apart to find the break. With wire nuts the twist of the wires together virtually prevents that problem for me, save a few very rare occasions I would call installer error.
For clarity I do still use wagos but only in temporary set ups. We use them to get power for light running fast and come back later and put the switches in after drywall and paint is done.
@@albertj3421 You know, that sounds like a great use for them!
I agree with your experiences.
I've torn wires in old houses and never ever seen a classic wire nut fail.
If installed correctly, the connection is as strong and secure as an unbroken conductor. Wago is more error prone.
the probably isnt whether or not they "work" its what happens through the years of people having space heaters and AC units pulled in getting wires hot to cold mulitple times a hour for years with humidity in the air and maybe even salty air if you live near a ocean. Ive seen not properly installed wirenuts basically fall off after 6 years. as far as wago, i dont have enough data to know how i feel.
hot cold changes are no issue. The spring tension on the connection holds the wire in place. the wire cant work it self out like on screw terminals for example.
Salty air should be no issue, the 221 are rated for naval installation. using them near the coast should be fine.
Interesting another commenter mentioned issues in a thermal chamber with hot cold cycling in humid conditions. You mentioned ocean conditions - I have seen terribly corroded (inside) junction boxes inside a beach-side place where I once stayed - I'm sure traces of salt was enough to corrode things, As you said - it what happens over years that can be an issue.
Interesting that they are rated for naval use. I would have though they would have to be sealed for that.
@@ElectromagneticVideos they probably mean it just wont burn your fishing boat down 🤣 they are probably high quality stainless or something but I would thing the resistance difference would show more.
@@whyme6742 you do realize a spring can lose its springiness right?
The question if they survive 250 A is utterly irrelevant. They are not specified for this and will not have to survive such a high current in real use.
Hahaha, in Europe we use Wago connectors for the last 40 years...
So the ones you have been using for 40 years - are they identical to the ones I used? And if so, are the 40 year old ones in good condition after a long period of use?
@@ElectromagneticVideos
The Wago connectors today are pretty much the same as the ones we used back in the day, the older Wago connectors still provide a secure, reliable connection.
Why wouldn't that be the case?
@@Dutch-Power-Cow Interesting! The reason for asking is plastics often deteriorate or get brittle over long periods of time. From you comment it sounds like the plastic in those Wagos seem to handle aging well.
In an actual installation, the hot and neutral run side-by-side inside something else.
They don’t have cool, free air cooling them.
A real test would be with a 20 A or 30 A circuit breaker in series and the conductors inside a piece of NM-B cable in the blazing sun on a hot day.
Then you can demonstrate that the circuit breaker trips to protect the wiring and connectors before anything reaches 105°C.
Yes - I actually did a bunch of separate videos (look in my list of videos) where I test 14/2 cable inside walls, with and without insulation. The margin of safety goes way down ...
TH-camrs use Wagos. Electricians use wire nuts.
American* electricians 😉
I think European electricians would disagree with @igfoobar
@igfoobar
:)
@@ElectromagneticVideos I've never met a "european electrician" and I have to assume they don't exist.
@@igfoobar I’ve done electrical work in England Scotland and Romania and used wagos :) plenty of other testimonials you can find I’m sure
Amazing, first ❤
Glad you liked it!