My TC was the best bike I ever had. Sold it only because age and injury weakened me and I had to downsize. I was mad as hell when they bought Indian for ridiculous money and then because of slow Indian sales they had to let Victory go. Never will ever buy from them again. They had the most loyal owners on the planet. The current Indian scout is a rebadged Victory.
Hi Freddie, loved your vid, but you forgot one thing about the NC750X the superb fuel consumption I regularly get 85 to the gallon And even when riding like I stole it, it refuses to go below 65 mpg. And you can get a it with DCT too
I was the victim of a hit-and-run recently. When i assessed the damage to my gear i noticed the worst damage was to the chin bar of my full-faced lid . Made me think !! ......coz in the summer i love an open face !
Hi Freddie - it's Big Rodders in Ireland. I agree totally regarding fuel economy. My 2023 Honda CB125F has averaged 146 mpg over 5000 miles with a best of over 180mpg at max 40mph and over 220mpg at max 30mpg. My 2020 Honda Monkey has averaged 155mpg over 9000 miles. Both are capable at cruising at 50mph and provide an exhilarating riding experience. My days of big heavy thirsty bikes are over.
Rodney I am impressed how frugal with fuel your choice of motorcycles were able to achieve. On the opposite end of the spectrum the Aprilia Tuono twin I owned returned a meagre 34 mpg.
All bikes are wonderful. When you find something that resonates with you and brings you joy, just love it and learn to live with it's quibbles. It's all worth it in the end... 🙂
Spaniard here living in London, fun facts: I own a Honda CB250 (year 1999, I believe) in Spain, I currently pay 116 euros for insurance/year(3rd party) 20 euros road tax and 16 euros MOT, so is cheaper to have a motorcycle in Spain. I'm on my late 40's and been driving since I was 15, fun fact as well, the insurance is not under my name but my brothers, but insurance covers any driver at no extra cost, and you don't pay extra either for taking a passenger, so anybody can drive your motorcycle as long as they have the driving license for that cc, even me with currently a full UK driving license for any cc. Another fun fact we can park the motorcycles in wide side roads and also we have lots of parking spaces for motorcycles, they don't steal them as often as they do here in London. This is the reason why I haven't got one in London yet... The helmet issue the government is trying to implement is I believe an old story, they rather do that and not fix the damaged roads, but I must admit London roads are way worst by far (including motorways)(full of potholes etc) than the ones back home where you can ride a scooter without feeling your body is going to disassemble (is the feeling I get when riding a Piaggio Beverly in London for example...) Thanks for your videos!!! Very entertaining and educational.
I'm a Brit Bike living in your wonderful country..España is a far more Motorcycle friendly country than the UK. l love riding Spains mountainous region of Alicante Provence. The roads are certainly better, plus are less congested....A Biker in Spain is spoiled for choice...We have the road network and the weather....Whats not to like..
Besides all that, due to the weather in Spain you can ride all year easily and even if the cost of owning it would be the same as in UK that makes it worth having a bike in Spain. Saludos de Portugal
@@brianperryyeap the weather helps, but I'm from San Sebastian north of Spain where it rains more than in London (I'm a weather refuge in London xD) you can check the statistics, but that doesn't stop us from riding 😅😉 enjoy Alicante!!
I get about 3.5l/100km on my Honda NC700. I sold my car as the bike was more economical and greener. I also wasn't using the car as I had the bike. As for lids. I don't like open face lids.. cold in the winter, hit by flies in the summer and I value my jaw. I can understand people in hot cities wearing them but not in chilly and wet Northern Europe. If it is hot, I have a modular.
The reason motorcycles use more fuel than you think is because of air resistance. Then you also have to remember that on some motorcycles you are sitting on a performance machine. My Yamaha FJR 1300 from 2006, has about 142 hp and does 0-100 km/h (0-60 mph) in less than 4 seconds, my consumption is 0.5 liters/10km or 5 l/100km (47 mpg). If I stay around 100km/h (62 mph) I might even get down to 48 mpg... A car with the same performance won't do 47-48 mpg. It all depends on what the motorcycle is designed for, as several have mentioned, there are motorcycles that use very little gas, an example of this is the Honda NC750x. That's just my 2 cents.
Re. miles per gallon, I think that bike manufacturers stopped focussing on mpg when bikes, for most riders, became toys and not regular transport. If you look at stats for 60s bikes, most of them were capable of 60+ mpg. This was necessary because these bikes were used every day. If you were only using your bike at weekends, you could cope with filling up more often. Most of my 80s bikes, such as Suzuki GS550, Yamaha XS 650 and Kawasaki Z650 managed around 50. My late 90s Shadow 1100 ACE varied from 60 mpg on a long run to 40 mpg around town. Over the last 10 years I think we have started to see an improvement in mpg, possibly because of greater environmental awareness. And bikes like Royal Enfield have stayed true to the daily use ethic because of their home market.
As an ex despatcher and rider of Australia, the Suzuki GS engines were tough ,brilliant, simple and all mine did over 50000 miles, the Suzuki gs850g was so comfortable, reliable even as an abused ex despatch bike lacking oil changes, it had 86000 miles on it and used oil but never missed a beat or broke down and a Suzuki 1000 I had did over 100k , and I was shocked years later seeing it chased on crime watch where it had been through 5 owners after me.
Sorry Freddy but your analysis of bike reliability by looking at mileage on Autotrader makes no sense. Why? Because bikes like Harley’s and Ducati’s are purchased as lifestyle and leisure machines. The mileage for Honda ( for example ) includes commuter bikes and motorcycle couriers. Have you have seen a bike courier riding a Panigale?? No. They would be riding a Bandit or a Hornet. Hence the difference in mileages.
The difficulty with KTM reliability is that, until recently, it was almost all enduro bikes and to an extent it still is. Those bikes are ragged mercilessly off road in terrible conditions. So miles travelled is not the only differentiator, it’s also the environment where they are used.
I am about to start asking the U.K. Government to make all car users wear helmets because I think this will save lives. I am also going to ban motorcycles because people get hurt on these evil machines. When all this has been approved as it will due to weak minded folk. I am then going to ask for cars to travel at no more than 20 M.P.H. thus saving even more lives ?? Possibly 30 M.P.H. on major roads such as motorways !! I think I am on a winner and will be voted for some prize or another that I am sure ?? In fact lets go back to horse and cart and live in caves how cool would that be ??
There is far less traffic in Spain as I'm sure you'll know if you have ridden there. So direct fatality stats between them and the overcrowded UK roads are not valid. Plus, most bikes registered in Spain are scooters or low lowered bikes used in cities as their climate encourages. Most bikes in UK are ridden outside cities (UK cities are not bike friendly) at higher speeds. So there will be a higher fatality rate per registered bike in UK than in Spain, regardless of the type of helmet worn.
The first Victory was butt ugly! It was built by engineers, not stylists. They did absolutely everything better than a Harley for a lot less money. They nearly went broke until they hired Arlen Ness to make them pretty. They dumbed down the power, brakes and suspension and sold them as fast as they could build them. When the Indian brand name bounced to a halt through the court system, Polaris bought it and shifted motorcycle production to the “new” Indian company. They pulled the plug on Victory not because of bankruptcy but because the Victory brand was simply not as well known as Indian. They are both great bikes.
For fuel economy the Honda NC750 is hard to beat. Over 18000 km mine has done an average of 35.5 km/l. That's 100.3 mpg (UK) or 83.5 mpg (US). You probably have to look at 125's to do much better. It has to be said that I don't do much motorway, so most of my riding is at speeds around 50 mph.
My NC750X regularly gives 80 - 85MPG. I had 92MPG on an A and B road ride back to south bucks from north Wales. I have a Himalayan from which I get around 80MPG and, also a Honda C125 Super Cub which returns 160 - 175MPH ( I've had over 200MPG on this if pottering on it, but most of the time - keeping up with 50MPH traffic it's between 160 - 170 )
Freddie - you’ve missed a trick not mentioning the Integra version of the NC700/750s. The NC700D Integra - the best motorcycle in the world and one I intend to ride Aus-UK. Check them out!
Hiya,on the subject of economy, old top gear covered this, a bmw m3 v toyota prius around their track,the prius getting thrashed followed by the m3 not being thrashed at all keeping up behind and the m3 showed an amazing return on fuel...the prius absolutely terrible.As mr Clarkson said its not what you drive,its the way you drive it.
Freddie I'm from Cape Town, South Africa. My 2012 Honda Transalp 700 returns a consistent 22 km/l no matter how I load it and no matter how I ride, and my 2011 Honda XR250 returns a staggering 32 km/l!!! I just filled up minutes ago and put in 6.29l for covering 210 kms. 33.39 km/l and bear in mind every morning I have my 12 year old son and his school backpack, plus my work backpack on the bike and we drive over a mountain pass (Chapmans Peak Drive) between work and home. On my return from work I travel over two mountain passes, but without my pillion. Staggeringly good fuel economy from a 13 year old carb fed bike.
I had a Triumph 1050 Tiger Sport 2014 model I brought new . Owned for over 4 years and 40,000km . A fantastic engine , reliable, I didn’t have any electrical problems by memory ? , I reckon the new Triumph 660 Sport looks SO much like it , but like it had a baby 😂😂😂.
Maybe if economy is what people are after then look at smaller engined bikes. Personally I’ll stick with my 1200 Ducati. I mean come, we’re not bikers because we want to buy into the eco argument are we? I’ll take it truly seriously when governments do. As it is we have trade deals with countries like china selling us newly manufactured stuff we don’t need. I own a commercial audio service centre, 20 years ago, 80% of circuit boards were repairable. It’s less than 20% these days. If governments insisted on all new manufactured products to be 80% repairable then I might start believing them. Instead they want new stuff built because it drives economies. While we get charged to save the planet with a bag for life. If it wasn’t true it’d be funny. And no I’m not a climate change denier. Just fed up of the the multinational government hypocrisy and rampant bollo ☺️
Come on Freddie on that triumph tiger 2009 at £3800 you're not tell me you couldn't afford it, looks like it would do absolutely everything you could want, and probably better fuel consumption than that busted bonny 😂
Freddie, thanks for discussing the subject i brought up on reliability i found it fascinating and i appreciate your input. Strangely enough I've owned numerous Hondas from a little XBR500 single up to a Blackbird and found every one reliable, whereas I've owned just one Ducati a 450 desmo which was so unreliable i sold it very quickly indeed and I've never bought another Ducati to this day.
Hi Freddie My Harley Roadking Classic has 57,500 miles on the clock, I purchased it with 2600 miles as my main touring bike. I’m well into double figures doing European road trips solo and two up and can’t think of a better bike to do the job. It looks cool, it’s super comfy, it carry’s bags full of luggage and I can get 250 miles out of a 20lrr tank on a good run. If your ever in north Devon you can take it out for a couple of days to see for yourself
I class them big V twin cruisers like Harley’s ,India’s & Victory’s as two wheeled locomotives . Built to plod pie munchers down long USA highways in a straight line from road house to road house . Not exactly built for narrow winding European roads, especially if they handle like a pig on roller skates .
Owned a 2012 Victory Judge for 2 years, sold it and bought a 2015 Dyna Street Bob, have mixed feelings and a few regrets. Harleys will always be clunky, agricultural but have that name on the tank, Victorys will always be the bike Harleys should have been!! Would I have another Victory: definitely.
Hi Freddie The CB500F latest generation we had in 2018 did 83mpg My Pan America does 53mpg it’s all about how you ride. I ride fairly quickly but don’t accelerate hard and feather the throttle so achieve better mpg
Trouble is with reliability it's all about trying bikes. I've been a triumph man from birth due to my parents, I'm lucky to have been able to afford a few new ones from the triumph range (2019 speed RS and new rocket 3) Both were terrible machines, countless gear box problems, rear brakes failing, fuel line bursting all within the first 1000 miles, handed the RS back and didn't trust the rocket, so sold it. From that I thought "what the hell" and moved to a ktm superduke r and never looked back. Before I get lynched, I own 3 older triumphs, street scrambler, an immaculate 1995 900 thunderbird and a "new to me" 09 tiger 1050, which I bought for serious touring..... I absolutely love it, new bikes aren't necessarily better, the older triumphs are easy to work on and way more robust than modern day machines. Anyway, I look forward to these mate, keep up the great work.
When you try and find accurate statistics on injuries to wearers of open face helmets versus full face there seems to be no accurate studies done anywhere. Various percentages are quoted but usually with the proviso that the figures have been estimated. The statement that facial injuries are less with a full face than an open face is a somewhat obvious one. However, facial injuries with full face helmets are still possible. Some "studies" confuse half helmets with open face which make things even more dificult to understand. Personally I like an open face helmet with a full visor that clicks firmly into place. Curiously, I find that style to be less noisy than a lot of full face helmets I have tried and certainly cooler in hot weather.
Some states over here in the US think they want to rule every part of your life. I want the freedom to choose full face, 3/4 or half helmet or nothing at all when I'm on parade. Big brother is everywhere. Quite frankly it is simply none of their business. The government's responsibility is not to be our parents and keep us safe but to respect our wishes. Not theirs.
Very telling that it is Honda NC700 and NC750 owners that are commenting the most about fuel economy. They really are economical bikes and also practical and (dont tell everyone) fun.
Hi Freddie, NC750X, what a bike, frugal isn’t the word. MPG, 70mph = 65,mpg 60mph = 80mpg 50mph = 100 mpg (motorway riding) Downsides, poor suspension, but that’s it. I’ve got the 2022 model so 58bhp, but it’s like a diesel with low down torque and it’s lighter than the older model. I’ve had a change from my Italian stallions, beautifully bikes, Ducati and Aprilia, but the electrical faults! On brand new bikes. Using the NC for camping and touring, low down weight (the engine is canted forward and low down, the fuel is under the seat) it’s now fully personalised (changed the front springs) and put all the protection and touring gear on, it’s all day comfortable with weather protection. I have purchased a used 3000 mile Triumph Street triple, which is a good bike, but ……. open the garage door and it’s the Honda ! Enjoy your Tuesday night broadcast, keep them coming.
We live in a relatively small island and shorter season so high mileage isn't easy compared to US. Took me as long to drive from Scotland to London as driving half the length of Florida and that's only 1 state
Hi Freddie, on Victory the parts overlap was not nearly as much as you’d expect, Victory was very innovative across their models, the Judge would be my pick but they even put out an electric bike before HD. I had a last run 2017 Octane stage 1, which was the 110hp sinister more aggressive shorter geared cousin of the Indian Scout. Victory engineers then mostly moved over to Indian and yielded bikes like the FTR, Challenger and Chief Bobber. On economy, to what extent has the race to reduce emissions actually hurt overall efficiency? I ask as an open question.. On economy figures for mine are 👇 The 2017 Octane 1200cc averaged only 37mpg My old 2020 Rocket 3R averaged 41mpg 2500c 🚀 2021 XSR700 XTribute 700cc with exhaust, 49mpg 🫤 2020 CB1100RS and 5Four CB1100RS 1100cc with exhaust, both averaged 51mpg 👌 1985 Vmax 1200cc custom with full exhaust system, …. 18mpg 😅 2009 Dodge Nitro diesel 2700cc, 27mpg 🤷♂️ tow car Kona Electric ⚡️ 64kwh about 220-240 miles one charge 🤨 1978 Corvette v8 with tuned 383ci (6300cc) stroker, about 8-15mpg 😂 but ‘Lemmy’ for racing only these days, Best to you and M, JB 🏴
Hi Freddie, great content as usual. Fuel economy figures; 1978 Honda CG125 120mpg 1992 Honda Fireblade 50mpg, no matter how I rode it! 2023 Moto Guzzi V7 850 60mpg
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Cool that you mentioned my comment from last week. I'll send you an email with some pics of my Victory Cross Roads and my other big bikes. B.t.w. I'm Swedish 😂
Fuel consumption figures for my bikes:- 2020 Honda CB500X after 26,000miles = mid 80's mpg imperial 90+if you're careful 2020 Susuki DL650 Vstrom new to me in November last year so only 1000miles = high 60's mpg imp Honda NT700 Deauville,after 25,000miles = high 60's mpg imp All three bikes do 30 to 35% motorway miles at 70+mph,of the 15 to 17,000miles per annum 25:21
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne I have a NC700s manual and it only starts drinking fuel if I welly it. Usually I hardly visit petrol stations which is handy as I often have a tailbag on the back seat. Doesn't make for easy fill ups. The NC bikes are very underrated. Great fuel economy, low centre of gravity, stick to the road and the best storage of any bike out there.
Honda's 500 series tend to be exceptionally good on fuel as well. Average anywhere from about 70 to 100 uk mpg with my 500R and 500X (with the R being about 10% better). And yet enough power to still have fun and do the freeway runs. I've noticed with any bike, going over 60 mph the enconomy plummets.
Great video Freddy, I’ve don’t just over 200,000 kms on Victory motorcycles since 2011. My current Victory Cross Roads has done over 70,000 kms, would be almost 100,000 kms if it wasn’t for the Covid lock down in Australia.
My record mpg was 156 on my late mother's 1965 Honda 50 (C100 model). This was in 1971 when I was 16. More recently on European touring, my 1988 BMW K75 I usually get about 55 mpg.
I think there's some inevitable confusion about fuel economy given differing standards around the world. Example - there are reports that the Moto Guzzi V85 can get 500km from it's 23 liter tank. That equates to , at worst , 4.6L/100km or 21.7 km/lt , or 61 mpg Imperial or 51 mpg US. But unless it's clear which mpg is being referred to, then the differences are large. Someone reporting in US mpg , if the reader assumes UK gallons, isn't going to be an overly impressive figure. By comparison, my wife's 2017 Suzuki Swift Sport (1.4L boosterjet turbo) averages around 6.8L/100 , so the Guzzi is better on raw figures by about 30 percent, but is of course less than a quarter of the weight.
CB125F 2021 if you cruise along at an EXTREMELY consistent speed, anywhere from 20 to 30mph 200mpg can be achieved on level ground. Worst economy is 75mpg doing A roads with the throttle pinned. Currently averaging 150mpg (roughly) even riding aggressively and wringing it's neck for power (obviously since it's a 125)
Motorcycle, fuel economy? Range was more important, A full 12ltr tank of gas in my 900 modern classic triumph. Fuel light would come on after 200km and I’d get make it 250km. My 1200 GS 20ltr tank made it 400km So roughly 20 ish per litre. Is probably no far off. My bike has a 1200 motor. My first car was a 1275 mini. Fuel economy wasn’t really part of my bike choice. A small 125 or 250 motorcycle would be more comparable to a small car. Reliability, spot on, looking for an old, bike? Pick a Honda, My 85000km GS has served me well. I figured it would. Spanish laws wouldn’t be a problem for me, I choose to wear an EEC certified full face helmet. My choice. Choice is important. It’s your ride and your risk. Should be your choice.
No idea why bigger bikes get worse MPG, but if one truly wants to be economical, then one has to live with a 125cc. My scooter (honda forza 125) gets 125Mpg (and goes for 400km on a tank) and similar honda manual bikes get 130-140mpg, emitting just 50g/km of co2. This to me is the only way to truly be "green" and "economical" on 2 wheels using an ICE, otherwise you have to look at electric.
There are many ‘newer’ bikes that are over 750 that will do over 70 mpg. I would suggest motorcycles when touring will be going faster than car drivers and achieving hight mpg. My little Suzuki Baleno 1.0 turbo will do over 65 mpg, but I will have to be doing about 65 mph to achieve it. I would suggest if some one was travelling at 65 mph on a ‘new’ motorcycle of over 750cc then they would be achieving much high mpg than my car. With regards to the NC750X, i understand the engine is based on the Honda Jazz engine so I am not surprised by its reliability.
The 1600 thunderbird is a great bike, so comfortable. Better than HD in my opinion. Victory are beautiful but more expensive. I enjoyed riding the thunderbird so much, relaxed, bags of low down torque. So under rated and at 16600 miles, immaculate, great finish.
Hello from France, I’m a 40yo new motorcycle rider (had my A license a year ago). I’ve been riding a Brixton 125 BX for 2 years. I’m about to buy my first « big bike » (I love modern classic bikes). I hesitate between starting small with a Triumph scrambler 400X and going straight for my dream bike: à Bonneville T100. What would your advice be on that dilemma ? Thanks
HI..Freddie.......either you get a dealer service....or service it yourself......but did you service your Bonnie ?.....mine is awaiting the service in my garage when it gets a little warmer !!!!!but i am 75 with creaky joints !!!
in the late 1960s I travelled from Durban to Capetown and back on my 500cc BSA Royal Star With a Friend with a 500cc Velocette .Overall I averaged 96 MPG, The Velocette !08 Mpg The BSA Was the most reliable of all the bikes Ive had over 60 years of biking. Funny enough the Hondas I had were the most unreliable with Suzuki 2 strokes being ultra reliable
Over 20,000kms on my Meteor 350 I've averaged 2.5L/100km which is 94mpg, much of this flogging the bike around back roads chasing friends on bigger faster bikes. My best tanks was 2.2 and worst was 3.0 L/100km. You're right about the Honda NC750 - the most reliable and perfect tourer because it uses half of a Honda Jazz engine with car like tuning and great fuel economy. People sell them because they're not a 100hp crotch rocket, which is completely missing the point of the bike.
Your reliability analysis is interesting but it not as simple as just looking at bikes with over 50k miles. For example there are 3,400 Honda bikes listed on A/T vs 1,100 KTM. KTM haven't been selling big volumes of bikes in the UK for long at all when compared to Honda. There are 470 Hondas 2006 or older on A/T now vs 20 KTM. I'd guess as a proportion of new bikes sold that wouldn't be very different between Honda and KTM, maybe Honda coming out 'worse' because more 'cheap' bikes would have been scrapped. KTM only really make one touring model you would expect to accumulate big miles. Honda have lots. There is also the value of bike over 50k miles to consider. On a KTM or Ducati it may be more valuable broken for parts than sold as a running bike. You certainly can't say Honda is 68 times more reliable than KTM because there are 68 50K mile+ Hondas for sale and only 1 KTM.
Honda cb250 1993 17bhp 😅 90/100 uk mpg Two up it's still 75/85 uk mpg Suzuki sv650 2004 50mpg on a steady ride Sub 30ish mpg on hoon Love the cb250s mpg. Makes it cheap fun
I have a Honda NC750S, which averages 80mpg over various riding conditions and speeds during commuting to work. I have even seen it say on the dash over 100mpg, but I don't think it is entirely accurate. The best I have ever got out of my BMW R1200GS is 62mpg, which I was also pleased with. However, I prefer to ride the BMW, so am will to pay the extra for my weekend rides. As for open face helmets, we are all adults, so should be able to choose and accept our own levels of risk. Don't ban them, just make those of us who choose to wear them, pay extra on our insurance. However, I would welcome the French law in saying that all motorcyclists should be wearing CE approved gloves.
Some people obviously buy small motorcycles for economic reasons. l did back in 77 when l bought a used Honda C90 step through for work transport, my NSU Ro80 having a horrendous MPG. plus oil consumption...When asked what the mpg is for past and present Bikes ..l haven't a clue... because thats not the primary reason for me owning a motorcycle.
The reliability issue? Well it’s topical because I am following The Wurx repair of Freddie’s Bonneville. Even Freddie will admit he hasn’t looked after it so well. I maintained our two KTM 990 Adventures as we rode around the world (over 54,000 Kms each ) and every evening at camp site did the basic maintenance on both. Each bike had a more thorough service in South Africa, Kenya, Sinai, Italy, and Istanbul ( few mods such as clutch slave replacement and general service stuff). I agree the Honda Transalp I rode across Indo China and the Africa Twin across the BDRs of America were very reliable - but all will break if you don’t keep on top of maintenance. Know your bike - know the Achilles Heel of each. For LC8 KTMs it is the fuel pump and by extension the fuel filter. It’s not too difficult to check chain, sprockets battery, suspension and keep the filters and fluids in good order.
My 1200 Thruxton averages 58mpg, that’s about the same asa 1200cc car?, and don’t forget the bike would leave the car for dead in terms of performance. However my 197cc 1957 James Captain does close to 100mpg but is only 9bhp, so I think we can see from these 2 examples that performance is the trade off with fuel economy.
Comparing bike marques with mileage is pointless as a reliability marker? Honda pan Europeans, bmw rt and gs, yamaha fjr sa re all going to have high mileage as they are tourers and will do higher mileage ( generally). There are sites to look at reliability and I think Yamaha are at the top.additionally I dont buy a bike for economy, i buy it for pleasure. My current v strom 650 at flat out willdo65-70mpg. Things like a human sitting on a bike are not aerodynamic, also chain drive saps energy. Also rolling efficiency of 4 aligned rolling wheels against two that are rarely aligned will sap energy. Also cars especially diesels rev to 4500-6000rpm. Bikes can rev to 12000. Fuel is metered on revs. Also performance related to weight. A modern car is provably 1/4 of a bikes power to weight ratio. Comparison is - honda cub low revving low power to weight ratio 188mpg. Great discussion this week thanks
Freddie, ive seen many great reviews on yamaha supertenere 1200s. They are shaft drive and cover huge mileages like gold wing hondas and £6000 gets a good one with top boxes and theyre known to be better bikes than BMW GS and some triumph tigers which are also durable apart from electrical problems but ive had nightmares with voltage regulator/ rectifier units on honda VFR750 and VFR800s.
I had an 09 Bonnie same as yours my mpg was 50-55mpg running around and 55-60 on a run. When you get yours back sorted i would expect you to get better mpg. I have a '22 Street twin 900 usual mpg is around 72mpg, just wish the fuel tank was bigger 12 Lt is pretty pathetic. All bikes should ve able to have around a 200 miles range minimum.
I ride a KYMCO Agility 125 cc scooter. I like scooters. I just wish it were better built. A rubber bit fell off of the kick stand. I did drop the bike at less than 1 mph and the U shaped metal bit to help the rider to deploy the kickstand was bent. A week later it fell off because the weld broke. The clock stopped working within the first year because it was parked for a winter. A front fender bolt fell out of the right fork. A bolt for the rear fender fell out. That same fender had a plastic mount crack. When accelerating there is a tiny shudder as if the clutch is not gripping or the CVT belt is slipping. Is this scooter wearing out? It only has about 9000 kilometers of use. I hope that I can save enough money to get something different before something breaks that makes it unusable. The fuel mileage over its life has been quite varied. When new it would get 73 mpg (US). Then it got into the low 80s. Then it would dip into the low 60s if I had to ride across town on 50 mph roads. It's top speed is 56 with a tailwind. If it is only ridden between 30 to 40 mph the mpg can be up to 91. This is a carburetted engine. Am I experiencing typical KYMCO quality? It was made in China, not Taiwan. This experience has made me believe that KYMCO isn't such a great brand no matter how big their company is world wide. This company makes the scooters for BMW.
I owe a Ducati 998, it’s done 72,000 miles trouble free. Only changed the clutch plate, this was due to the dry clutch system used. Normally around every 25k. I service it myself. I’ve had many Ducati’s and never had many issues.
Hi Freddie, my 2013 Triumph Trophy 1215 SE 300kg and two up still averages 60+mpg - 47mpg must be town work only! all my Street Triple can average 70mpg !
Hi Freddie, my rt1200 averages 59mpg, with a heavy rider and light pillion, my old commando is better but I have not bothered measuring it for years. Modern bike produce much more power per cc than a car and rev much faster. More revs= more power and more fuel. Ps, get a Guzzi , such characterful bikes , I’ve had a few.
Hi Freddie, thanks for selecting my comment re fuel consumption, thinking about it and more importantly, constructively reacting to it. It might sound strange but among motorcycle publications, your reaction is unusual. I've been banging on and off about this for decades, trying to get the bike world to see the importance of making a stand on this issue; if the riders's rights groups want to present bikes as being environmentally friendly, they have to practice what they preach and be ready to condemn the ones that aren't. In reality alas, while they might preach environmental friendliness, the doctrine they practice is, in effect, the divine right to consume without consequence. They are assisted in this by moving the goalposts, something that has spread throughout the world of motorcycle publications, absorbed and re-transmitted by the riders' rights groups themselves. Thus, the BMF for instance, described 45 MPG as "economical" and 50 MPG as, get this, "frugal". I've been labelled a "green nutcase" by another - for the 'crime' of wanting to preserve the ICE powered motorcycle! Another publication told me not to write to them any more for querying their claim that their Hinkley Bonneville at 50MPG was yep, "economical". And you Freddie, up to a week ago, thought that 47 MPG was "phenomenal" no less. What's the difference? The difference is, Freddie, that you were prepared to think, reflect and realise, increasingly rare values today, instead of sticking your head in the sand. Well done! Now you must act. Stephen
A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD ? Hi Freddie I agree entirely with the fact that for their size and road footprint, bikes are very uneconomical in fuel consumption. That said we need to take into account that we don't have a level playing field worldwide. I had a Buick Skylark which struggled to get 20 mpg. In the USA a gallon of petrol is 4 liters. In the UK its 4.5 liters. Not all petrol's are the same. I have noted a big drop in economy with everything we own from a Smart car to my strimmer. Ethanol petrol reduces the economy as up to 10% of its volume is not petrol. I recall that in the USA petrol was as low as 87 octane. The old 2 star petrol used in many bikes before unleaded fuel was a minimum of 90 octane. There used to be 5 star petrol which was 100 octane. I have lived in many countries and there are these differences which need to be accepted. Royal Enfield fuel consumption figures seem to be close to those advertised with low tuning meaning that even with low grade fuel a Bullet or 350 meteor can get close to 100 mpg with care and good maintenance. I could list the bikes I have owned and their consumption figures. What I noted was when leaded or lead replacement petrol was no longer sold, my big bikes used more fuel. As a comparison my first moped a Tomos 2 stroke would match the 105 mpg stated by the manufacturer. I feel in having bikes with carburetors and fuel injection, that in my experience carb bikes often get better economy and conventional wisdom would suggest are therefore greener, especially taking into account the ecological impact of building another bike as opposed to keeping and running an old bike.
This fuel consumption debate is completely daft. Firstly, big bikes are not bought for economy or green credentials: they're bought for thrills. Deep down, you want the feeling you're riding on the back of a rocket. We get up early, look for deserted, open roads so we can rip the throttle, haul it down for bends then rip it again. The bike needs lots of horsepower and torque to shine like this and obviously fuel consumption will suffer. But who cares? We want the adrenaline rush to remind ourselves we're still alive and if you couldn't afford the fuel you wouldn't buy the bike. Any car attempting the same thing will be using double the fuel due to the weight it's hauling about. Comparisons with bikes of the 60s and 70s are irrelevant because today's big bikes are generating twice their power and performance and twice their reliability. If you just want the cheapest form of transport, or you're some kind of new age tree-hugger, buy an RE350, enjoy a gazillion mpg and for god's sake stop whining. It's embarrassing. Regarding engine longevity: R-series Police Beemers often clock-up massive mileages with few major issues other than a new clutch at somewhere from 80 to 120k. Pretty good! Best wishes.
Second hand value for money when companies build bikes they’re not known for….. 2 recent examples… bmw r18 and Harley Davidson Pan America now can be bought for less than £9k. Both highly accomplished bikes that have lost half their value in 3 years. What a garage that would be but at what point does the depreciation end? I’m thinking maybe another 18 months these might get as low as £7k then plateau. Time to start saving.
If you want to compare apples to apples, a Honda 125 most likely has better performance then your Fiat and will get 100 mpg. People don’t buy performance bikes for fuel economy, for a logical person I can not believe you got suckered so bad by Mr 650 Bonny with his 30 hp air cooled twin.
Fantastic podcast as usual. Thank you Freddie. I have a few thoughts on the subject of reliability of bikes. All my experience comes from riding a dual sport bike. Before my beloved Suzuki Drz 400 got run over in a parking lot by a garbage truck, i had over 60k on that bike. Besides an aftermarket exhaust and tires it was completely a stock bike. As someone that enjoys working on a bike as much as riding one, i maintain my bike religiously. Obviously sometimes things can fail, after all a bike is a machine, but i believe with good maintenance most bikes will be reliable. I'm looking into getting my first moder classic bike, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, or my new favorite bike that i just tested the Kawasaki w800. Right now its between a triumph t100 or the w800. Whatever i get i will apply the same routine of maintenance that i did with my Drz 400, and i believe the new bike will serve me well. Ride safe P.S. I live in the States, i took numerous 2-5k trips on my Drz. One of my fondest memories is when i lived in Texas, taking a trip frim Texas to California. It was the best two an a half months of my life. Swimming in the Pacific ocean and camping on the beach is something i will never forget. I ended up riding all over California and back. Napa, California is one of the places i rode to, i found out that mr. Gorbachev had a vineyard there. Being a son of an immigrant from the USSR, i made sure to water mr. Gorbachev's vineyard (lol) Thank you again for amazing videos and ride safe ✌️
Hi Freddie, you should look at second hand bikes in Australia. We have many with more than 4 or 5 hundred thousand klms. The highest is a Honda with 789,000 klms. My longest trip was on a Suzuki 650 Vstrom where I did 7,500klms in 10 days. Not unusual at all here. Cheers Mark
i have 2 KTM, one is a 450 mx bike that is a 2013 and the other is a 2019 exc 500 (a road going enduro bike), they get beat to shi7 and i do mean beat - i have had one fault in 9 years of owning them - a 10pence fuse....Say what you like, this is ownership experience from me
British roads, weather and car drivers pulling out on bikers causes many deaths on bikes. Freddie, triumph have more reliable models like Tiger 800s but the bonnevilles are less durable and reliable. Harley and BMW are generally less reliable. A ducati will be scrapped at 30000 miles as it becomes uneconomical to repair. I had an old 900 triumph daytona from 1996 that was very economical if i kept it under 5000 rpm and 80mph. It had a lot of torque and was better on fuel than a yamaha fazer that did 40 mpg but the triumph 50 mpg.
It's quite possible that if you own a KTM you own other bikes, whereas if you own a BMW it might be your only motorcycle. I have a KTM 950 adventure , its as analog as you can get, carbs, no abs, no traction control, no riding modes, no TPS, no TFT screen, no cruise control etc etc and it's a hoot to ride. It's ler me down once in 15 years, and I have been to Sahara and back with no issues. Maintenance is the key imho. PS one of my other bikes a BMW K1300r currently has an idle control valve issue. It has had other issues in the 12 years I have owned it so BMW leads in the unreliability issues for me.
I can get 78mpg on a 60mph run with my 120hp 900cc. Compare to cars and the performance to mpg ratio is insane. My car is half the power to weight and gets 30mpg. Bikes get double the mpg for double the power!
Freddie, I’m guessing that the poor fuel economy of your 865 Bonneville is down to it being a sick bike for some while now. I have the same 865 and mine, on a recent day trip to Norfolk and back averaged 68 mpg with a mixture of urban and motorway riding. Mind you it does have a free flowing air intake plus a better non stock exhaust and it is an injection bike, but I’m sure a stock carb 865 would be getting 60+ mpg. It would be good to hear from other 865 owners what they are getting?
I seem to remember the Victory Octane is very similar to the Indian Scout and actually used about 30 to 40% of the same parts. Also did Victory actually go bankrupt, I thought they were deliberately wound down as Polaris switched all their efforts to establishing the Indian brand?
I think you need to look at motorcycle mpg from a different perspective, add your weight to the weight of said motorcycle and calculate the bhp per tonne! I would hazard a guess that the tiger1200 with you on it is around 450+ bhp per tonne!I think 48 mpg is pretty good when you consider the performance figures! Show me a car with 450to500 bhp per tonne that will do 48mpg
On fuel economy you'll be hard pushed to beat the Honda Grom I'm getting 160mpg! Latest model on a 21 plate. Great in town but forget dual carriageways or motorways.
I can’t say it was the greatest parameter when choosing my current bike but mileage did come into it. Thought about the NC750x and 500x just because of their quite staggering MPGs. Mate does above 80 MPG on his 750X, I think the lack of a top box helps him a lot. I’m glad to see Triumph doing better for every generation of the mid-sized Tigers, 10% better mileage for every generation for almost a decade now. My bike? A Tracer 700. Does about 65-70 mpg as I ride it on the commute with the boy on the back.
It's common sense that my blackbird or my gsxr1000 will use more fuel than my girlfriends Z400, but ur paying that bit extra for the grin factor, the power factor and the excitement factor. Sure a smaller bike would be more economical but you would miss the point. On the point of an open face helmet..... I find it insane that anyone would wear an open face helmet. If you come off wearing one you risk serious facial damage.
Hi Freddie. 1. A couple of thoughts on this weeks interesting discussions. With the autotrader mileages, I think that tells you more about the riding habits of UK bikers not how reliable they are. Alot of Harleys are garage queens, "serious" bikers buy things like BMW GS and then ride large mileages on them. A really good please to judge reliability are the MCN owner reviews. 2. With regard to fuel economy I think you have to compare apples with apples. Most bikes which people desire and rave about are performance machines. I have not been riding long, I did my CBT in September 2001. I rode a UM Renegade Classic on L plates. I did 6500 miles on it including one 1200 mile road trip. I got about 100 mpg out of it and as proved you can tour on it but no one really wants to. I passed my test in May 2023 and my advanced test in May 2024. My first big bike was a 2007 Yamaha XV 1700 Roadstar. It is a big lazy cruiser, I have kitted it out as a tourer with panniers and a tour pack etc. It does just under 50 mpg. My second bike is a 2018 BMW R1200 RTP. I get just over 50 mpg. That is a lot less than the 125, however the Roadstar does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and the BMW does it in 3.5 seconds. That is supercar quick and is the whole point of riding a bike. Compare that to any car which does that sort of 0-60 times and it will appear incredibly economical! The other advantage of bikes over cars is I couldn't dream of owning a car which is that quick, but can afford 2 bikes. (the Roadstar cost me £5000, the BMW cost £4,000) Thanks for some thought provoking conversations. James
With regards to car vs bike mpg. If you compare a powerful bike to a car with similar performance then you’re looking at supercars that commonly return mpg figures of 12-25mpg. If you compare a Fiat 500 to something like a Hunter 350, then the bike is getting double the mpg. The reason cars aren’t running mega mpg figures is because the oil companies don’t want them too, plain and simple. If the environment was the issue then we’d be running steam power or hydrogen by now.
As mentioned by others, after Polaris acquired Indian they ceased Victory even though they had a good following and was well respected for their engineering and build quality. I can’t fault Polaris for making a business decision to continue with a brand better positioned to tap the traditional cruise market vs Victory, which was positioned to shift it.
Owned a Victory Kingpin Tour. Great bike and head-to-toe a far superior machine to a Harley of that era. You are right though, folks from the states love their Harley's. Indian has gained a considerable chunk of the market though and are turning a profit. Victory never turned a profit.
Victory didn't go bankrupt. Polaris stopped production because they were selling more Indians than Victory's.
Yep, Indian Scout and Challenger are Victory designs.
My TC was the best bike I ever had. Sold it only because age and injury weakened me and I had to downsize. I was mad as hell when they bought Indian for ridiculous money and then because of slow Indian sales they had to let Victory go. Never will ever buy from them again. They had the most loyal owners on the planet. The current Indian scout is a rebadged Victory.
Hi Freddie, loved your vid, but you forgot one thing about the NC750X the superb fuel consumption
I regularly get 85 to the gallon And even when riding like I stole it, it refuses to go below 65 mpg.
And you can get a it with DCT too
*Revzilla calls the NC750X the best standard bike for fuel economy.* Between 65 and 80 MPG. While the Grom is 100+ MPG.
@@hulkhatepunybannermy honda anf125 carb model does no less than 125 mpg
@@volt8684 *Breaking ear drums and blackening lungs along the way.* LOL
I was the victim of a hit-and-run recently. When i assessed the damage to my gear i noticed the worst damage was to the chin bar of my full-faced lid .
Made me think !! ......coz in the summer i love an open face !
Hi Freddie - it's Big Rodders in Ireland. I agree totally regarding fuel economy. My 2023 Honda CB125F has averaged 146 mpg over 5000 miles with a best of over 180mpg at max 40mph and over 220mpg at max 30mpg. My 2020 Honda Monkey has averaged 155mpg over 9000 miles. Both are capable at cruising at 50mph and provide an exhilarating riding experience. My days of big heavy thirsty bikes are over.
Rodney I am impressed how frugal with fuel your choice of motorcycles were able to achieve. On the opposite end of the spectrum the Aprilia Tuono twin I owned returned a meagre 34 mpg.
Inner city mpg (UK): 95
Highway mpg (UK): 125
Honda GB350. Air cooled single-cylinder thumper with 20hp. Hello from Sydney, Australia. 👋
What year mate
@@alexanderspeed9555 2024. Picked it up at the start of Jan. Loving it so far.
All bikes are wonderful. When you find something that resonates with you and brings you joy, just love it and learn to live with it's quibbles. It's all worth it in the end... 🙂
Spaniard here living in London, fun facts: I own a Honda CB250 (year 1999, I believe) in Spain, I currently pay 116 euros for insurance/year(3rd party) 20 euros road tax and 16 euros MOT, so is cheaper to have a motorcycle in Spain. I'm on my late 40's and been driving since I was 15, fun fact as well, the insurance is not under my name but my brothers, but insurance covers any driver at no extra cost, and you don't pay extra either for taking a passenger, so anybody can drive your motorcycle as long as they have the driving license for that cc, even me with currently a full UK driving license for any cc. Another fun fact we can park the motorcycles in wide side roads and also we have lots of parking spaces for motorcycles, they don't steal them as often as they do here in London. This is the reason why I haven't got one in London yet... The helmet issue the government is trying to implement is I believe an old story, they rather do that and not fix the damaged roads, but I must admit London roads are way worst by far (including motorways)(full of potholes etc) than the ones back home where you can ride a scooter without feeling your body is going to disassemble (is the feeling I get when riding a Piaggio Beverly in London for example...) Thanks for your videos!!! Very entertaining and educational.
I'm a Brit Bike living in your wonderful country..España is a far more Motorcycle friendly country than the UK. l love riding Spains mountainous region of Alicante Provence. The roads are certainly better, plus are less congested....A Biker in Spain is spoiled for choice...We have the road network and the weather....Whats not to like..
Besides all that, due to the weather in Spain you can ride all year easily and even if the cost of owning it would be the same as in UK that makes it worth having a bike in Spain. Saludos de Portugal
Fun fact, Spain is better than the UK, apparently.
@@brianperryyeap the weather helps, but I'm from San Sebastian north of Spain where it rains more than in London (I'm a weather refuge in London xD) you can check the statistics, but that doesn't stop us from riding 😅😉 enjoy Alicante!!
@@ChrisLimey Hardly surprising seeing that both the main political parties have systematically destroyed it over the past 27 years.
I get about 3.5l/100km on my Honda NC700. I sold my car as the bike was more economical and greener. I also wasn't using the car as I had the bike.
As for lids. I don't like open face lids.. cold in the winter, hit by flies in the summer and I value my jaw. I can understand people in hot cities wearing them but not in chilly and wet Northern Europe. If it is hot, I have a modular.
The reason motorcycles use more fuel than you think is because of air resistance. Then you also have to remember that on some motorcycles you are sitting on a performance machine. My Yamaha FJR 1300 from 2006, has about 142 hp and does 0-100 km/h (0-60 mph) in less than 4 seconds, my consumption is 0.5 liters/10km or 5 l/100km (47 mpg). If I stay around 100km/h (62 mph) I might even get down to 48 mpg... A car with the same performance won't do 47-48 mpg. It all depends on what the motorcycle is designed for, as several have mentioned, there are motorcycles that use very little gas, an example of this is the Honda NC750x. That's just my 2 cents.
Re. miles per gallon, I think that bike manufacturers stopped focussing on mpg when bikes, for most riders, became toys and not regular transport. If you look at stats for 60s bikes, most of them were capable of 60+ mpg. This was necessary because these bikes were used every day. If you were only using your bike at weekends, you could cope with filling up more often.
Most of my 80s bikes, such as Suzuki GS550, Yamaha XS 650 and Kawasaki Z650 managed around 50. My late 90s Shadow 1100 ACE varied from 60 mpg on a long run to 40 mpg around town. Over the last 10 years I think we have started to see an improvement in mpg, possibly because of greater environmental awareness. And bikes like Royal Enfield have stayed true to the daily use ethic because of their home market.
As an ex despatcher and rider of Australia, the Suzuki GS engines were tough ,brilliant, simple and all mine did over 50000 miles, the Suzuki gs850g was so comfortable, reliable even as an abused ex despatch bike lacking oil changes, it had 86000 miles on it and used oil but never missed a beat or broke down and a Suzuki 1000 I had did over 100k , and I was shocked years later seeing it chased on crime watch where it had been through 5 owners after me.
Sorry Freddy but your analysis of bike reliability by looking at mileage on Autotrader makes no sense.
Why? Because bikes like Harley’s and Ducati’s are purchased as lifestyle and leisure machines. The mileage for Honda ( for example ) includes commuter bikes and motorcycle couriers. Have you have seen a bike courier riding a Panigale?? No. They would be riding a Bandit or a Hornet. Hence the difference in mileages.
The difficulty with KTM reliability is that, until recently, it was almost all enduro bikes and to an extent it still is. Those bikes are ragged mercilessly off road in terrible conditions. So miles travelled is not the only differentiator, it’s also the environment where they are used.
The main issue is the oil volume. Less oil equals shorter engine life; all else being equal.
Motorcycles aren’t economical because of their high drag coefficient. Cars have a very low CD.
I am about to start asking the U.K. Government to make all car users wear helmets because I think this will save lives. I am also going to ban motorcycles because people get hurt on these evil machines. When all this has been approved as it will due to weak minded folk. I am then going to ask for cars to travel at no more than 20 M.P.H. thus saving even more lives ?? Possibly 30 M.P.H. on major roads such as motorways !! I think I am on a winner and will be voted for some prize or another that I am sure ?? In fact lets go back to horse and cart and live in caves how cool would that be ??
This was an enjoyable read- I was nodding along!😆
Cars are already massive safety helmets - it’s just that they cover the whole body.🤣🤣🤣
There is far less traffic in Spain as I'm sure you'll know if you have ridden there. So direct fatality stats between them and the overcrowded UK roads are not valid. Plus, most bikes registered in Spain are scooters or low lowered bikes used in cities as their climate encourages. Most bikes in UK are ridden outside cities (UK cities are not bike friendly) at higher speeds.
So there will be a higher fatality rate per registered bike in UK than in Spain, regardless of the type of helmet worn.
Spot on.
The first Victory was butt ugly! It was built by engineers, not stylists. They did absolutely everything better than a Harley for a lot less money. They nearly went broke until they hired Arlen Ness to make them pretty. They dumbed down the power, brakes and suspension and sold them as fast as they could build them.
When the Indian brand name bounced to a halt through the court system, Polaris bought it and shifted motorcycle production to the “new” Indian company. They pulled the plug on Victory not because of bankruptcy but because the Victory brand was simply not as well known as Indian. They are both great bikes.
Have a look at the 1999 V92C. It looks like it was built by a group of blind people.
For fuel economy the Honda NC750 is hard to beat. Over 18000 km mine has done an average of 35.5 km/l. That's 100.3 mpg (UK) or 83.5 mpg (US). You probably have to look at 125's to do much better. It has to be said that I don't do much motorway, so most of my riding is at speeds around 50 mph.
My NC750X regularly gives 80 - 85MPG. I had 92MPG on an A and B road ride back to south bucks from north Wales.
I have a Himalayan from which I get around 80MPG and, also a Honda C125 Super Cub which returns 160 - 175MPH ( I've had over 200MPG on this if pottering on it, but most of the time - keeping up with 50MPH traffic it's between 160 - 170 )
I always wanted a Victory Hammer S - Stunning bike with stunning performance 👌🏻👍🏻
Freddie - you’ve missed a trick not mentioning the Integra version of the NC700/750s.
The NC700D Integra - the best motorcycle in the world and one I intend to ride Aus-UK. Check them out!
Hiya,on the subject of economy, old top gear covered this, a bmw m3 v toyota prius around their track,the prius getting thrashed followed by the m3 not being thrashed at all keeping up behind and the m3 showed an amazing return on fuel...the prius absolutely terrible.As mr Clarkson said its not what you drive,its the way you drive it.
Freddie I'm from Cape Town, South Africa. My 2012 Honda Transalp 700 returns a consistent 22 km/l no matter how I load it and no matter how I ride, and my 2011 Honda XR250 returns a staggering 32 km/l!!! I just filled up minutes ago and put in 6.29l for covering 210 kms. 33.39 km/l and bear in mind every morning I have my 12 year old son and his school backpack, plus my work backpack on the bike and we drive over a mountain pass (Chapmans Peak Drive) between work and home. On my return from work I travel over two mountain passes, but without my pillion. Staggeringly good fuel economy from a 13 year old carb fed bike.
I had a Triumph 1050 Tiger Sport 2014 model I brought new . Owned for over 4 years and 40,000km . A fantastic engine , reliable, I didn’t have any electrical problems by memory ? , I reckon the new Triumph 660 Sport looks SO much like it , but like it had a baby 😂😂😂.
Maybe if economy is what people are after then look at smaller engined bikes. Personally I’ll stick with my 1200 Ducati. I mean come, we’re not bikers because we want to buy into the eco argument are we?
I’ll take it truly seriously when governments do. As it is we have trade deals with countries like china selling us newly manufactured stuff we don’t need. I own a commercial audio service centre, 20 years ago, 80% of circuit boards were repairable. It’s less than 20% these days.
If governments insisted on all new manufactured products to be 80% repairable then I might start believing them. Instead they want new stuff built because it drives economies. While we get charged to save the planet with a bag for life.
If it wasn’t true it’d be funny.
And no I’m not a climate change denier. Just fed up of the the multinational government hypocrisy and rampant bollo ☺️
Come on Freddie on that triumph tiger 2009 at £3800 you're not tell me you couldn't afford it, looks like it would do absolutely everything you could want, and probably better fuel consumption than that busted bonny 😂
Freddie, thanks for discussing the subject i brought up on reliability i found it fascinating and i appreciate your input. Strangely enough I've owned numerous Hondas from a little XBR500 single up to a Blackbird and found every one reliable, whereas I've owned just one Ducati a 450 desmo which was so unreliable i sold it very quickly indeed and I've never bought another Ducati to this day.
Hi Freddie
My Harley Roadking Classic has 57,500 miles on the clock, I purchased it with 2600 miles as my main touring bike. I’m well into double figures doing European road trips solo and two up and can’t think of a better bike to do the job. It looks cool, it’s super comfy, it carry’s bags full of luggage and I can get 250 miles out of a 20lrr tank on a good run.
If your ever in north Devon you can take it out for a couple of days to see for yourself
When my tank is near empty I just fill it up with the best petrol ( E5.)
If you want economy buy a scooter.
Freddie
On fuel my NC750x is getting 86 mpg average reading ,260 mile on £14
John
I class them big V twin cruisers like Harley’s ,India’s & Victory’s as two wheeled locomotives . Built to plod pie munchers down long USA highways in a straight line from road house to road house . Not exactly built for narrow winding European roads, especially if they handle like a pig on roller skates .
@ 11:00 I do not believe you got 80 mpg in any Rover Metro ... Freddie!
Owned a 2012 Victory Judge for 2 years, sold it and bought a 2015 Dyna Street Bob, have mixed feelings and a few regrets. Harleys will always be clunky, agricultural but have that name on the tank, Victorys will always be the bike Harleys should have been!! Would I have another Victory: definitely.
Hi Freddie
The CB500F latest generation we had in 2018 did 83mpg
My Pan America does 53mpg it’s all about how you ride.
I ride fairly quickly but don’t accelerate hard and feather the throttle so achieve better mpg
Trouble is with reliability it's all about trying bikes.
I've been a triumph man from birth due to my parents, I'm lucky to have been able to afford a few new ones from the triumph range (2019 speed RS and new rocket 3)
Both were terrible machines, countless gear box problems, rear brakes failing, fuel line bursting all within the first 1000 miles, handed the RS back and didn't trust the rocket, so sold it.
From that I thought "what the hell" and moved to a ktm superduke r and never looked back.
Before I get lynched, I own 3 older triumphs, street scrambler, an immaculate 1995 900 thunderbird and a "new to me" 09 tiger 1050, which I bought for serious touring..... I absolutely love it, new bikes aren't necessarily better, the older triumphs are easy to work on and way more robust than modern day machines.
Anyway, I look forward to these mate, keep up the great work.
Had 6 Hinkley built Triumphs. All had been great reliable bikes .
Since 2017 they have not been the same !
When you try and find accurate statistics on injuries to wearers of open face helmets versus full face there seems to be no accurate studies done anywhere. Various percentages are quoted but usually with the proviso that the figures have been estimated. The statement that facial injuries are less with a full face than an open face is a somewhat obvious one. However, facial injuries with full face helmets are still possible. Some "studies" confuse half helmets with open face which make things even more dificult to understand. Personally I like an open face helmet with a full visor that clicks firmly into place. Curiously, I find that style to be less noisy than a lot of full face helmets I have tried and certainly cooler in hot weather.
Some states over here in the US think they want to rule every part of your life. I want the freedom to choose full face, 3/4 or half helmet or nothing at all when I'm on parade. Big brother is everywhere. Quite frankly it is simply none of their business. The government's responsibility is not to be our parents and keep us safe but to respect our wishes. Not theirs.
bikers tend to call the high MPG bikes boring, like the Honda NC750
My NC700 is great fun and really practical. When I change bikes I will be lost without the frunk.
Very telling that it is Honda NC700 and NC750 owners that are commenting the most about fuel economy. They really are economical bikes and also practical and (dont tell everyone) fun.
Hi Freddie, NC750X, what a bike, frugal isn’t the word.
MPG, 70mph = 65,mpg 60mph = 80mpg 50mph = 100 mpg (motorway riding)
Downsides, poor suspension, but that’s it.
I’ve got the 2022 model so 58bhp, but it’s like a diesel with low down torque and it’s lighter than the older model.
I’ve had a change from my Italian stallions, beautifully bikes, Ducati and Aprilia, but the electrical faults! On brand new bikes.
Using the NC for camping and touring, low down weight (the engine is canted forward and low down, the fuel is under the seat) it’s now fully personalised (changed the front springs) and put all the protection and touring gear on, it’s all day comfortable with weather protection.
I have purchased a used 3000 mile Triumph Street triple, which is a good bike, but ……. open the garage door and it’s the Honda !
Enjoy your Tuesday night broadcast, keep them coming.
I have never bought a motorcycle for the mpg or moreover because of tyre wear and I’ve been biking for 50 years plus!
We live in a relatively small island and shorter season so high mileage isn't easy compared to US. Took me as long to drive from Scotland to London as driving half the length of Florida and that's only 1 state
Hi Freddie, on Victory the parts overlap was not nearly as much as you’d expect, Victory was very innovative across their models, the Judge would be my pick but they even put out an electric bike before HD.
I had a last run 2017 Octane stage 1, which was the 110hp sinister more aggressive shorter geared cousin of the Indian Scout. Victory engineers then mostly moved over to Indian and yielded bikes like the FTR, Challenger and Chief Bobber.
On economy, to what extent has the race to reduce emissions actually hurt overall efficiency? I ask as an open question..
On economy figures for mine are 👇
The 2017 Octane 1200cc averaged only 37mpg
My old 2020 Rocket 3R averaged 41mpg 2500c 🚀
2021 XSR700 XTribute 700cc with exhaust, 49mpg 🫤
2020 CB1100RS and 5Four CB1100RS 1100cc with exhaust, both averaged 51mpg 👌
1985 Vmax 1200cc custom with full exhaust system, …. 18mpg 😅
2009 Dodge Nitro diesel 2700cc, 27mpg 🤷♂️ tow car
Kona Electric ⚡️ 64kwh about 220-240 miles one charge 🤨
1978 Corvette v8 with tuned 383ci (6300cc) stroker, about 8-15mpg 😂 but ‘Lemmy’ for racing only these days,
Best to you and M,
JB 🏴
Compared to a modern cars, bikes have the drag coefficiency of a brick wall. Its all about the aero.
Hi Freddie, great content as usual. Fuel economy figures;
1978 Honda CG125 120mpg
1992 Honda Fireblade 50mpg, no matter how I rode it!
2023 Moto Guzzi V7 850 60mpg
Cool that you mentioned my comment from last week. I'll send you an email with some pics of my Victory Cross Roads and my other big bikes. B.t.w. I'm Swedish 😂
Cross Roads is my favourite Victory
Fuel consumption figures for my bikes:-
2020 Honda CB500X after 26,000miles = mid 80's mpg imperial 90+if you're careful
2020 Susuki DL650 Vstrom new to me in November last year so only 1000miles = high 60's mpg imp
Honda NT700 Deauville,after 25,000miles = high 60's mpg imp
All three bikes do 30 to 35% motorway miles at 70+mph,of the 15 to 17,000miles per annum 25:21
My Honda NC750X-DCT regularly returned 100mpg on a run
That’s incredible
I could believe that. They sip fuel
It actually topped out at 99.9mpg but that was only because the digital display would only show 3 digits, the maximum being 99.9@@BrokenBackMountains
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne I have a NC700s manual and it only starts drinking fuel if I welly it. Usually I hardly visit petrol stations which is handy as I often have a tailbag on the back seat. Doesn't make for easy fill ups.
The NC bikes are very underrated. Great fuel economy, low centre of gravity, stick to the road and the best storage of any bike out there.
Honda's 500 series tend to be exceptionally good on fuel as well. Average anywhere from about 70 to 100 uk mpg with my 500R and 500X (with the R being about 10% better). And yet enough power to still have fun and do the freeway runs. I've noticed with any bike, going over 60 mph the enconomy plummets.
Great video Freddy, I’ve don’t just over 200,000 kms on Victory motorcycles since 2011. My current Victory Cross Roads has done over 70,000 kms, would be almost 100,000 kms if it wasn’t for the Covid lock down in Australia.
Best fuel consumption Suzuki GS450 1981, with a pillion, taking it gently, genuine 100mpg.
Wow!
My record mpg was 156 on my late mother's 1965 Honda 50 (C100 model). This was in 1971 when I was 16. More recently on European touring, my 1988 BMW K75 I usually get about 55 mpg.
My Honda anf125 carb model never does less than 125 driven flat out. Darcy and old man got 188mpg out the dax I think?
I think there's some inevitable confusion about fuel economy given differing standards around the world. Example - there are reports that the Moto Guzzi V85 can get 500km from it's 23 liter tank. That equates to , at worst , 4.6L/100km or 21.7 km/lt , or 61 mpg Imperial or 51 mpg US. But unless it's clear which mpg is being referred to, then the differences are large. Someone reporting in US mpg , if the reader assumes UK gallons, isn't going to be an overly impressive figure.
By comparison, my wife's 2017 Suzuki Swift Sport (1.4L boosterjet turbo) averages around 6.8L/100 , so the Guzzi is better on raw figures by about 30 percent, but is of course less than a quarter of the weight.
CB125F 2021 if you cruise along at an EXTREMELY consistent speed, anywhere from 20 to 30mph 200mpg can be achieved on level ground. Worst economy is 75mpg doing A roads with the throttle pinned. Currently averaging 150mpg (roughly) even riding aggressively and wringing it's neck for power (obviously since it's a 125)
Motorcycle, fuel economy?
Range was more important, A full 12ltr tank of gas in my 900 modern classic triumph. Fuel light would come on after 200km and I’d get make it 250km.
My 1200 GS 20ltr tank made it 400km
So roughly 20 ish per litre. Is probably no far off.
My bike has a 1200 motor. My first car was a 1275 mini. Fuel economy wasn’t really part of my bike choice.
A small 125 or 250 motorcycle would be more comparable to a small car.
Reliability, spot on, looking for an old, bike? Pick a Honda, My 85000km GS has served me well. I figured it would.
Spanish laws wouldn’t be a problem for me, I choose to wear an EEC certified full face helmet. My choice. Choice is important. It’s your ride and your risk. Should be your choice.
My Moto Guzzi V7 gets 55mpg on the highway. If I lost some weight maybe it might crack 60.
No idea why bigger bikes get worse MPG, but if one truly wants to be economical, then one has to live with a 125cc. My scooter (honda forza 125) gets 125Mpg (and goes for 400km on a tank) and similar honda manual bikes get 130-140mpg, emitting just 50g/km of co2. This to me is the only way to truly be "green" and "economical" on 2 wheels using an ICE, otherwise you have to look at electric.
There are many ‘newer’ bikes that are over 750 that will do over 70 mpg. I would suggest motorcycles when touring will be going faster than car drivers and achieving hight mpg. My little Suzuki Baleno 1.0 turbo will do over 65 mpg, but I will have to be doing about 65 mph to achieve it. I would suggest if some one was travelling at 65 mph on a ‘new’ motorcycle of over 750cc then they would be achieving much high mpg than my car.
With regards to the NC750X, i understand the engine is based on the Honda Jazz engine so I am not surprised by its reliability.
The 1600 thunderbird is a great bike, so comfortable. Better than HD in my opinion. Victory are beautiful but more expensive. I enjoyed riding the thunderbird so much, relaxed, bags of low down torque. So under rated and at 16600 miles, immaculate, great finish.
Hello from France,
I’m a 40yo new motorcycle rider (had my A license a year ago). I’ve been riding a Brixton 125 BX for 2 years.
I’m about to buy my first « big bike » (I love modern classic bikes).
I hesitate between starting small with a Triumph scrambler 400X and going straight for my dream bike: à Bonneville T100.
What would your advice be on that dilemma ?
Thanks
HI..Freddie.......either you get a dealer service....or service it yourself......but did you service your Bonnie ?.....mine is awaiting the service in my garage when it gets a little warmer !!!!!but i am 75 with creaky joints !!!
in the late 1960s I travelled from Durban to Capetown and back on my 500cc BSA Royal Star With a Friend with a 500cc Velocette .Overall I averaged 96 MPG, The Velocette !08 Mpg The BSA Was the most reliable of all the bikes Ive had over 60 years of biking. Funny enough the Hondas I had were the most unreliable with Suzuki 2 strokes being ultra reliable
Over 20,000kms on my Meteor 350 I've averaged 2.5L/100km which is 94mpg, much of this flogging the bike around back roads chasing friends on bigger faster bikes. My best tanks was 2.2 and worst was 3.0 L/100km.
You're right about the Honda NC750 - the most reliable and perfect tourer because it uses half of a Honda Jazz engine with car like tuning and great fuel economy. People sell them because they're not a 100hp crotch rocket, which is completely missing the point of the bike.
Your reliability analysis is interesting but it not as simple as just looking at bikes with over 50k miles. For example there are 3,400 Honda bikes listed on A/T vs 1,100 KTM. KTM haven't been selling big volumes of bikes in the UK for long at all when compared to Honda. There are 470 Hondas 2006 or older on A/T now vs 20 KTM. I'd guess as a proportion of new bikes sold that wouldn't be very different between Honda and KTM, maybe Honda coming out 'worse' because more 'cheap' bikes would have been scrapped.
KTM only really make one touring model you would expect to accumulate big miles. Honda have lots. There is also the value of bike over 50k miles to consider. On a KTM or Ducati it may be more valuable broken for parts than sold as a running bike. You certainly can't say Honda is 68 times more reliable than KTM because there are 68 50K mile+ Hondas for sale and only 1 KTM.
Honda cb250 1993 17bhp 😅
90/100 uk mpg
Two up it's still 75/85 uk mpg
Suzuki sv650 2004
50mpg on a steady ride
Sub 30ish mpg on hoon
Love the cb250s mpg. Makes it cheap fun
I have a Honda NC750S, which averages 80mpg over various riding conditions and speeds during commuting to work. I have even seen it say on the dash over 100mpg, but I don't think it is entirely accurate. The best I have ever got out of my BMW R1200GS is 62mpg, which I was also pleased with. However, I prefer to ride the BMW, so am will to pay the extra for my weekend rides. As for open face helmets, we are all adults, so should be able to choose and accept our own levels of risk. Don't ban them, just make those of us who choose to wear them, pay extra on our insurance. However, I would welcome the French law in saying that all motorcyclists should be wearing CE approved gloves.
Some people obviously buy small motorcycles for economic reasons. l did back in 77 when l bought a used Honda C90 step through for work transport, my NSU Ro80 having a horrendous MPG. plus oil consumption...When asked what the mpg is for past and present Bikes ..l haven't a clue... because thats not the primary reason for me owning a motorcycle.
The reliability issue? Well it’s topical because I am following The Wurx repair of Freddie’s Bonneville. Even Freddie will admit he hasn’t looked after it so well. I maintained our two KTM 990 Adventures as we rode around the world (over 54,000 Kms each ) and every evening at camp site did the basic maintenance on both. Each bike had a more thorough service in South Africa, Kenya, Sinai, Italy, and Istanbul ( few mods such as clutch slave replacement and general service stuff). I agree the Honda Transalp I rode across Indo China and the Africa Twin across the BDRs of America were very reliable - but all will break if you don’t keep on top of maintenance. Know your bike - know the Achilles Heel of each. For LC8 KTMs it is the fuel pump and by extension the fuel filter. It’s not too difficult to check chain, sprockets battery, suspension and keep the filters and fluids in good order.
How he wasn’t stranded in the desert in Morocco god knows, thank god he wasn’t. They are machines and need maintaining whichever the marque
My 1200 Thruxton averages 58mpg, that’s about the same asa 1200cc car?, and don’t forget the bike would leave the car for dead in terms of performance.
However my 197cc 1957 James Captain does close to 100mpg but is only 9bhp, so I think we can see from these 2 examples that performance is the trade off with fuel economy.
Comparing bike marques with mileage is pointless as a reliability marker? Honda pan Europeans, bmw rt and gs, yamaha fjr sa re all going to have high mileage as they are tourers and will do higher mileage ( generally). There are sites to look at reliability and I think Yamaha are at the top.additionally I dont buy a bike for economy, i buy it for pleasure. My current v strom 650 at flat out willdo65-70mpg. Things like a human sitting on a bike are not aerodynamic, also chain drive saps energy. Also rolling efficiency of 4 aligned rolling wheels against two that are rarely aligned will sap energy. Also cars especially diesels rev to 4500-6000rpm. Bikes can rev to 12000. Fuel is metered on revs. Also performance related to weight. A modern car is provably 1/4 of a bikes power to weight ratio. Comparison is - honda cub low revving low power to weight ratio 188mpg.
Great discussion this week thanks
Freddie, ive seen many great reviews on yamaha supertenere 1200s. They are shaft drive and cover huge mileages like gold wing hondas and £6000 gets a good one with top boxes and theyre known to be better bikes than BMW GS and some triumph tigers which are also durable apart from electrical problems but ive had nightmares with voltage regulator/ rectifier units on honda VFR750 and VFR800s.
I had an 09 Bonnie same as yours my mpg was 50-55mpg running around and 55-60 on a run. When you get yours back sorted i would expect you to get better mpg. I have a '22 Street twin 900 usual mpg is around 72mpg, just wish the fuel tank was bigger 12 Lt is pretty pathetic. All bikes should ve able to have around a 200 miles range minimum.
I ride a KYMCO Agility 125 cc scooter. I like scooters. I just wish it were better built. A rubber bit fell off of the kick stand. I did drop the bike at less than 1 mph and the U shaped metal bit to help the rider to deploy the kickstand was bent. A week later it fell off because the weld broke. The clock stopped working within the first year because it was parked for a winter. A front fender bolt fell out of the right fork. A bolt for the rear fender fell out. That same fender had a plastic mount crack.
When accelerating there is a tiny shudder as if the clutch is not gripping or the CVT belt is slipping. Is this scooter wearing out? It only has about 9000 kilometers of use. I hope that I can save enough money to get something different before something breaks that makes it unusable.
The fuel mileage over its life has been quite varied. When new it would get 73 mpg (US). Then it got into the low 80s. Then it would dip into the low 60s if I had to ride across town on 50 mph roads. It's top speed is 56 with a tailwind. If it is only ridden between 30 to 40 mph the mpg can be up to 91. This is a carburetted engine.
Am I experiencing typical KYMCO quality? It was made in China, not Taiwan. This experience has made me believe that KYMCO isn't such a great brand no matter how big their company is world wide. This company makes the scooters for BMW.
I owe a Ducati 998, it’s done 72,000 miles trouble free. Only changed the clutch plate, this was due to the dry clutch system used. Normally around every 25k. I service it myself. I’ve had many Ducati’s and never had many issues.
Hi Freddie, my 2013 Triumph Trophy 1215 SE 300kg and two up still averages 60+mpg - 47mpg must be town work only! all my Street Triple can average 70mpg !
Hi Freddie, my rt1200 averages 59mpg, with a heavy rider and light pillion, my old commando is better but I have not bothered measuring it for years. Modern bike produce much more power per cc than a car and rev much faster. More revs= more power and more fuel.
Ps, get a Guzzi , such characterful bikes , I’ve had a few.
Hi Freddie, thanks for selecting my comment re fuel consumption, thinking about it and more importantly, constructively reacting to it. It might sound strange but among motorcycle publications, your reaction is unusual. I've been banging on and off about this for decades, trying to get the bike world to see the importance of making a stand on this issue; if the riders's rights groups want to present bikes as being environmentally friendly, they have to practice what they preach and be ready to condemn the ones that aren't. In reality alas, while they might preach environmental friendliness, the doctrine they practice is, in effect, the divine right to consume without consequence. They are assisted in this by moving the goalposts, something that has spread throughout the world of motorcycle publications, absorbed and re-transmitted by the riders' rights groups themselves. Thus, the BMF for instance, described 45 MPG as "economical" and 50 MPG as, get this, "frugal". I've been labelled a "green nutcase" by another - for the 'crime' of wanting to preserve the ICE powered motorcycle! Another publication told me not to write to them any more for querying their claim that their Hinkley Bonneville at 50MPG was yep, "economical". And you Freddie, up to a week ago, thought that 47 MPG was "phenomenal" no less. What's the difference? The difference is, Freddie, that you were prepared to think, reflect and realise, increasingly rare values today, instead of sticking your head in the sand. Well done! Now you must act.
Stephen
A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD ? Hi Freddie I agree entirely with the fact that for their size and road footprint, bikes are very uneconomical in fuel consumption. That said we need to take into account that we don't have a level playing field worldwide. I had a Buick Skylark which struggled to get 20 mpg. In the USA a gallon of petrol is 4 liters. In the UK its 4.5 liters. Not all petrol's are the same. I have noted a big drop in economy with everything we own from a Smart car to my strimmer. Ethanol petrol reduces the economy as up to 10% of its volume is not petrol. I recall that in the USA petrol was as low as 87 octane. The old 2 star petrol used in many bikes before unleaded fuel was a minimum of 90 octane. There used to be 5 star petrol which was 100 octane. I have lived in many countries and there are these differences which need to be accepted. Royal Enfield fuel consumption figures seem to be close to those advertised with low tuning meaning that even with low grade fuel a Bullet or 350 meteor can get close to 100 mpg with care and good maintenance. I could list the bikes I have owned and their consumption figures. What I noted was when leaded or lead replacement petrol was no longer sold, my big bikes used more fuel. As a comparison my first moped a Tomos 2 stroke would match the 105 mpg stated by the manufacturer. I feel in having bikes with carburetors and fuel injection, that in my experience carb bikes often get better economy and conventional wisdom would suggest are therefore greener, especially taking into account the ecological impact of building another bike as opposed to keeping and running an old bike.
This fuel consumption debate is completely daft. Firstly, big bikes are not bought for economy or green credentials: they're bought for thrills. Deep down, you want the feeling you're riding on the back of a rocket. We get up early, look for deserted, open roads so we can rip the throttle, haul it down for bends then rip it again. The bike needs lots of horsepower and torque to shine like this and obviously fuel consumption will suffer. But who cares? We want the adrenaline rush to remind ourselves we're still alive and if you couldn't afford the fuel you wouldn't buy the bike. Any car attempting the same thing will be using double the fuel due to the weight it's hauling about. Comparisons with bikes of the 60s and 70s are irrelevant because today's big bikes are generating twice their power and performance and twice their reliability. If you just want the cheapest form of transport, or you're some kind of new age tree-hugger, buy an RE350, enjoy a gazillion mpg and for god's sake stop whining. It's embarrassing. Regarding engine longevity: R-series Police Beemers often clock-up massive mileages with few major issues other than a new clutch at somewhere from 80 to 120k. Pretty good! Best wishes.
Second hand value for money when companies build bikes they’re not known for….. 2 recent examples… bmw r18 and Harley Davidson Pan America now can be bought for less than £9k. Both highly accomplished bikes that have lost half their value in 3 years. What a garage that would be but at what point does the depreciation end? I’m thinking maybe another 18 months these might get as low as £7k then plateau. Time to start saving.
My god you talk some nonsense about bikes
If you want to compare apples to apples, a Honda 125 most likely has better performance then your Fiat and will get 100 mpg. People don’t buy performance bikes for fuel economy, for a logical person I can not believe you got suckered so bad by Mr 650 Bonny with his 30 hp air cooled twin.
Fantastic podcast as usual. Thank you Freddie. I have a few thoughts on the subject of reliability of bikes. All my experience comes from riding a dual sport bike. Before my beloved Suzuki Drz 400 got run over in a parking lot by a garbage truck, i had over 60k on that bike. Besides an aftermarket exhaust and tires it was completely a stock bike. As someone that enjoys working on a bike as much as riding one, i maintain my bike religiously. Obviously sometimes things can fail, after all a bike is a machine, but i believe with good maintenance most bikes will be reliable. I'm looking into getting my first moder classic bike, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, or my new favorite bike that i just tested the Kawasaki w800. Right now its between a triumph t100 or the w800. Whatever i get i will apply the same routine of maintenance that i did with my Drz 400, and i believe the new bike will serve me well. Ride safe P.S. I live in the States, i took numerous 2-5k trips on my Drz. One of my fondest memories is when i lived in Texas, taking a trip frim Texas to California. It was the best two an a half months of my life. Swimming in the Pacific ocean and camping on the beach is something i will never forget. I ended up riding all over California and back. Napa, California is one of the places i rode to, i found out that mr. Gorbachev had a vineyard there. Being a son of an immigrant from the USSR, i made sure to water mr. Gorbachev's vineyard (lol) Thank you again for amazing videos and ride safe ✌️
Hi Freddie, you should look at second hand bikes in Australia. We have many with more than 4 or 5 hundred thousand klms. The highest is a Honda with 789,000 klms.
My longest trip was on a Suzuki 650 Vstrom where I did 7,500klms in 10 days. Not unusual at all here.
Cheers Mark
i have 2 KTM, one is a 450 mx bike that is a 2013 and the other is a 2019 exc 500 (a road going enduro bike), they get beat to shi7 and i do mean beat - i have had one fault in 9 years of owning them - a 10pence fuse....Say what you like, this is ownership experience from me
British roads, weather and car drivers pulling out on bikers causes many deaths on bikes. Freddie, triumph have more reliable models like Tiger 800s but the bonnevilles are less durable and reliable. Harley and BMW are generally less reliable. A ducati will be scrapped at 30000 miles as it becomes uneconomical to repair. I had an old 900 triumph daytona from 1996 that was very economical if i kept it under 5000 rpm and 80mph. It had a lot of torque and was better on fuel than a yamaha fazer that did 40 mpg but the triumph 50 mpg.
It's quite possible that if you own a KTM you own other bikes, whereas if you own a BMW it might be your only motorcycle. I have a KTM 950 adventure , its as analog as you can get, carbs, no abs, no traction control, no riding modes, no TPS, no TFT screen, no cruise control etc etc and it's a hoot to ride. It's ler me down once in 15 years, and I have been to Sahara and back with no issues. Maintenance is the key imho. PS one of my other bikes a BMW K1300r currently has an idle control valve issue. It has had other issues in the 12 years I have owned it so BMW leads in the unreliability issues for me.
I can get 78mpg on a 60mph run with my 120hp 900cc. Compare to cars and the performance to mpg ratio is insane. My car is half the power to weight and gets 30mpg. Bikes get double the mpg for double the power!
Freddie, I’m guessing that the poor fuel economy of your 865 Bonneville is down to it being a sick bike for some while now. I have the same 865 and mine, on a recent day trip to Norfolk and back averaged 68 mpg with a mixture of urban and motorway riding. Mind you it does have a free flowing air intake plus a better non stock exhaust and it is an injection bike, but I’m sure a stock carb 865 would be getting 60+ mpg. It would be good to hear from other 865 owners what they are getting?
Fuel economy
Ktm390 adv. 64.9mpg average
Cb500x 73mpg average
I seem to remember the Victory Octane is very similar to the Indian Scout and actually used about 30 to 40% of the same parts.
Also did Victory actually go bankrupt, I thought they were deliberately wound down as Polaris switched all their efforts to establishing the Indian brand?
I think you need to look at motorcycle mpg from a different perspective, add your weight to the weight of said motorcycle and calculate the bhp per tonne! I would hazard a guess that the tiger1200 with you on it is around 450+ bhp per tonne!I think 48 mpg is pretty good when you consider the performance figures! Show me a car with 450to500 bhp per tonne that will do 48mpg
On fuel economy you'll be hard pushed to beat the Honda Grom I'm getting 160mpg! Latest model on a 21 plate. Great in town but forget dual carriageways or motorways.
I can’t say it was the greatest parameter when choosing my current bike but mileage did come into it. Thought about the NC750x and 500x just because of their quite staggering MPGs. Mate does above 80 MPG on his 750X, I think the lack of a top box helps him a lot.
I’m glad to see Triumph doing better for every generation of the mid-sized Tigers, 10% better mileage for every generation for almost a decade now.
My bike? A Tracer 700. Does about 65-70 mpg as I ride it on the commute with the boy on the back.
It's common sense that my blackbird or my gsxr1000 will use more fuel than my girlfriends Z400, but ur paying that bit extra for the grin factor, the power factor and the excitement factor.
Sure a smaller bike would be more economical but you would miss the point.
On the point of an open face helmet..... I find it insane that anyone would wear an open face helmet. If you come off wearing one you risk serious facial damage.
Hi Freddie.
1. A couple of thoughts on this weeks interesting discussions. With the autotrader mileages, I think that tells you more about the riding habits of UK bikers not how reliable they are. Alot of Harleys are garage queens, "serious" bikers buy things like BMW GS and then ride large mileages on them. A really good please to judge reliability are the MCN owner reviews.
2. With regard to fuel economy I think you have to compare apples with apples. Most bikes which people desire and rave about are performance machines. I have not been riding long, I did my CBT in September 2001. I rode a UM Renegade Classic on L plates. I did 6500 miles on it including one 1200 mile road trip. I got about 100 mpg out of it and as proved you can tour on it but no one really wants to. I passed my test in May 2023 and my advanced test in May 2024. My first big bike was a 2007 Yamaha XV 1700 Roadstar. It is a big lazy cruiser, I have kitted it out as a tourer with panniers and a tour pack etc. It does just under 50 mpg. My second bike is a 2018 BMW R1200 RTP. I get just over 50 mpg. That is a lot less than the 125, however the Roadstar does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and the BMW does it in 3.5 seconds. That is supercar quick and is the whole point of riding a bike. Compare that to any car which does that sort of 0-60 times and it will appear incredibly economical! The other advantage of bikes over cars is I couldn't dream of owning a car which is that quick, but can afford 2 bikes. (the Roadstar cost me £5000, the BMW cost £4,000)
Thanks for some thought provoking conversations.
James
2015 Honda NC750S manual, 85-90 MPG
I guess us NC 700 and 750 owners are winning the fuel consumption
With regards to car vs bike mpg. If you compare a powerful bike to a car with similar performance then you’re looking at supercars that commonly return mpg figures of 12-25mpg. If you compare a Fiat 500 to something like a Hunter 350, then the bike is getting double the mpg. The reason cars aren’t running mega mpg figures is because the oil companies don’t want them too, plain and simple. If the environment was the issue then we’d be running steam power or hydrogen by now.
As mentioned by others, after Polaris acquired Indian they ceased Victory even though they had a good following and was well respected for their engineering and build quality. I can’t fault Polaris for making a business decision to continue with a brand better positioned to tap the traditional cruise market vs Victory, which was positioned to shift it.
I still hate 'em for it!! 😈
re US Triumph prices - haha! With all yer gas mileage savings, works out the same! (I know this makes no sense, but I couldn't help it....)
Owned a Victory Kingpin Tour. Great bike and head-to-toe a far superior machine to a Harley of that era. You are right though, folks from the states love their Harley's. Indian has gained a considerable chunk of the market though and are turning a profit. Victory never turned a profit.
KTM, BMW, Harley and Ducati have very high service and spares costs. Look at the cost of setting up Desmo valves.