My problem with White Knight was that by making the Joker a split personality of Napier, and by make him politically savvy afterwards, I couldn’t escape the feeling I was reading a Two-Face story in all but name. It would’ve been nice to give Dent the spotlight for once if they were just gonna use so many aspects of his story anyway.
I don't know if the pitch exactly had legs to be a whole line of comics, but the art is so damn good, and the take so specific, it's always worth checking out. Also the art is exceptional: I truly don't understand how he works so fast with such detail and texture.
What you said at the end is very interesting. It's true that the interconnectivity of the Marvel and DC universes has become a burden in some aspects. And it's true, because to me, a classic superhero character I have always loved and found very easy to follow is the Incredible Hulk. Because even though he is very popular, he is usually left pretty alone in his own corner of the Marvel universe. He rarely gets involved in editorial mandated events, and he basically never gets tie-ins interrupting the flow of his on going series. Which is a great strength to make him and his series easy to get engaged in and follow. Another author that made something similar to Sean Murphy with White Knight, and I would say more successfully (at least on regards to aspects like characterization), is Garth Ennis with his Punisher MAX. I mention it because while he normally is said to hate superheroes, when one looks more closely at his words, that's not the case. What he hates, similar to what you mention, it's the restrains writing superheroes has. They are certain things characters aren't allowed to do, and other types of barriers as to what can get to do with a story. But like Murphy, Ennis got to work with the Punisher in his own separate continuity, contributing in many ways to reevaluating the character after a period of diminishing sales and obscurity. Yet keeping his characterization mostly in line to how he is in regular continuity.
I'm glad you covered this. I really enjoyed the Batman Murphyverse. It is nice to see something not tied to other books or from previously established continuity.
Murphy’s Zorro comic is basically this but not about Batman so it got little coverage in the end. If you love the main arcs of the MV then read it by all means but if you only like the MV (me) or don´t even care then don´t bother. White Knight Vol 1&2 will more or less stand the test of time but both gripped me less on a reread. The rest is getting a bit thin in my eyes so don´t ask me how Murphy will try to keep up the energy.
I’ve grown very tired of the argument that Batman creates his villains and he’s just a violent maniac. He’s compassionate, and he helps society in many ways with his means as Bruce Wayne and Batman. He values life so much he even refuses to kill the joker, thinking he can still get help. And he’s always trying to help his villains. They keep tryna man of steel him fr and it’s irritating
I agree that I think Batman is ultimately a heroic figure, I like these comics, but it should never be the main interpretation of the character, it be like making Superman from injustice or kingdom come the main version of the character rather than his established identity.
I got into Murphy with tokyo ghost and chrononauts, particularly his art style. Im glad white knight got continuation. It was one of those books i expected to be a one off so its been a nice surprise.
Thats kinda around the time I generally walked away from mainstream comics too! By the mid to late '90s I was exclusively reading independent or foreign published graphic novels.
I think the non autonomous titles is exhausting, I like the Murphy verse, I agree that it has cinematic directorial viewpoint, ltd series are generally v good to excellent
I haven't met Sean Murphy, but I do know the girl who was the model for Harley Quinn in the first "White Knight" book. She's a local burlesque performer and model...and I told her she should be proud!
@@jjjng5985 Yes! Of course! But she removed me from her FB for some reason...I haven't talked to her on it much, and last time we did she was in good spirits! I don't understand...
TKJ got a sequel named "Hush Return" in the ongoing Gotham Knights in the mid-00s right before One More Year. It made his comedian backstory canon as Riddler knew all about Jack and his dead wife. No other writer ever picked up the arguably unconluded story. And thank god. Hush Return starts solid but turns into total garbage halfway through.
So as batman-ed out reader, I really liked White Knight. The sooner we kill the bat god characterisation; the better. Frankly, in a different timeline, Alan Moore would’ve done a book like this.
I´m torn on this series, I love the art and the concept, but the execution has always been pretty irregular imho, but it would be cool to have more unverses like this with different characters
I mean, at this point (since the early 2000s), alternative/variant universes and "Elseworlds", not to mention constant reboots have become such the norm at both DC and Marvel, who today would have ANY expectations of consistent continuity and canon? I sure don't.
The first two minis, the Freeze one shot, the Harley Quinn mini were excellent Elseworld stories. The third main book was ok, but predictable. The Red Hood mini does what current Batman stories couldn't: allow him to heal. And the Generation Joker one is, to be honest, the weakest.
I love your perspective. Great insight. I'm going to pass on this universe, but you made the discussion enjoyable enough to watch till the end. Side question, I know first hand restaurants use several different delivery apps and they have different rates of return. Do you get more of a pay out from TH-cam or Patreon?
I have to agree that this approach is a way forward, give the creators more freedom to produce their own version of those characters. The most popular/liked books could be expanded and continued, those would be modern updated remakes of classic tales without the messy continuity that weighs them down. Their new upcoming All-in Absolute initiative is already viewed as an elseworlds clusterfuck. Bendis improved Spider Clone Saga was a story done well, Hickmans Secret Wars was SW for the 21th century etc. so it’s not like you cannot take inspiration from the past and sell the same material in a fresh package. But continuity has got to be put on the backseat (instead of being a constant obstacle) while the story has to be the driving force. Execution of the tale is what matters the most, not how you got to this point. BTW the recent Ultimate revamp could have been a nice year long anniversary akin to 90s Heroes Reborn. After the initial mini series that works as an intro setup release 3 new maxi series e.g. Spidey, Panther, Strange, followed by additional minis like Ultimate Mutants & Ultimate Guardians. Nice opportunity to test the waters by focusing on characters that were skipped the first time (because they weren’t household brands), also keep it tight because you never know if the idea will even click with the readers or if it’s dead on arrival.
Murphy also admits he’s not an “A level” writer, but he says he can write at a “B level” and his art will increase that B level to an A level comic (have to listen to interviews again to confirm that) So Murphy isn’t making himself out to be Alan Moore. He’s very aware of his limitations.
Comics continuity is what got me away from reading comics in the mid-90s. I much preferred the limited series that occurred outside the traditional universe. I'm glad to see that certain writers are continuing in this area.
What you said about DC pushing this storytelling model couldn't be truer, fanfic is a huge part of comic communities and everyone has their own head cannon so allowing more books to be published that could fit these molds for people would help new readers tremendously
If the Murphyverse has a million haters, then I am one of them. If it has ten haters, then I am one of them. If it has only one hater then that is me. If the Murphyverse has no haters, then that means I am no longer on earth.
@@dakotah7683 Nah, I like the art, I just think the stories are incredibly juvenile and lacking self awareness of the fact. Their vast shallowness could almost be mistaken for depth.
I liked White Knight, it was really decent but it seems that they want to drag it into the ground. I don’t know if more titles is the right answer, better to leave it alone than to milk it until the taste turns sour. It feels as this should have been 3 main series (WK, Curse, Beyond) + 3 special one shots (Freeze, Hood, Gen J) + Harley spin off mini. It had some potential left for that White Knight Finest series about League characters (which should have been published by now) and maybe another mini spin off about Gotham side cast (Catwoman, Cannary, Ivy?) titled Outlaws or Warriors of the White Knight. BUT that’s it for this Murphyverse, nowadays a solid 50 issue run is really not bad.
Looks like I made the right decision passing on this. I like Murphy"s work. His art on his and Grant Morrison's JOE THE BARBARIAN was excellent and his own PUNK ROCK JESUS for Vertigo was pretty enjoyable. I'm just sick of "adult" darker than darkity-dark takes on Batman. There seems to be enough interesting stuff here that had he just created his own analog-style character I might have been much more interested. Great work! Thanks.
Probably one of my favorite Batman stories that Im really invested in. It does has flaws within it but I always recommend it for a beginner to read Batman but I tell whoever reads it that it's a good representation of batman's flaws as a hero it's a good opposition to TDKR where he's a fascist that gets his way in the end before the sequels botched it. Sean Murphy's art is legendary in this book and i have to stop myself reading it to admire a lot of minor details in the panels he adds to it and the colors are brilliant capturing the tone of the comic. Very emotional and really challenged my view of my favorite hero in the medium since reading this book and reading the current zdarsky zur en arrh focused run shows how dangerous Batman is but is needed while proving Napier right. Thanks for making this video of one of my favorite books and im glad you enjoyed the first one like I did.
Murphy in many interviews says he was never a comics fan. He didn’t collect when he was a kid and came to it late. I think he says he only has one long box today. He was/is a big fan of Bruce Timm’s Batman Adventures and based the Murphyverse on TAS. So any inconsistencies are because he is unfamiliar with the comics history of Batman. IMO I’m glad he went his own way. Batman is ridiculous at this point and should be given to many different creators to create their own versions of the Batman. Keeping the character, which is over 80 years old, adherent to that amount of history is plain stupid!
My Take: I think that Batman White Knight suffers from two things. First, the usage of modern euphemistic terms like "SJW" or "gatekeeper". IDK if DC has a policy against using terms like liberal or conservative but I feel like it really dampens any political import the series could have had. Second, it feels way too compressed at eight issues to do all that it wants. I feel that Murphy wanted his take on Fries, Neo-Joker, Harley, Joker, Gordon, Duke Thomas, and Batman to be out there but the series moved at such a speed that I barely felt I had time to get to know any of them. If the series was 10 or 12 issues I feel we could take the space out to actually enjoy these characters and get to know them.
Rule 6 is what got me into this series, in fact mainstream comics should drop the whole "universe thing" since they keep rebooting the stuff. Death Metal for exemple, would be much cooler thing if it was its own thing with its own rules instead of picking over previous stuff and kicking off a reboot nobody cared about. Imagine what they authors could do with the stuff if they were not mandated to finish it with a big ass f you we rebooting again. And honestly if DC don't want to comply with it than we just drop the series and they take another sales L in their long line of 21 century defeats. The very fact that you keep saying "inconsistency with lore" is bit annoying. If its a mini series that is to be expect. Dark Knight Returns don't conform with stuff that was going at its time either and nobody gave a s***.
Glibness aside, I think the general idea of continuity bogging down titles is the opposite of what's actually going on in the big two. We have a minimum of two events per year and a bunch of teams that include characters who also have their own solo series and everything is constantly out of sync. Tie-ins aren't tie-ins anymore, they're always mini-series and oneshots, now, half the time not even written by whoever's writing the main book. Most big two series stretch out every story into multiple issues, making a timeline of events re:crossovers incredibly difficult to keep track of. Every new creative team is given a new #1, explicitly disconnecting the run from its publishing history. Writers are told by editorial not to read previous runs of a series. The "evergreen" books are controlled by "editors" who use the credited creative teams as ghost-writers, while not doing their paid jobs of keeping a standard of quality and continuity. DC also has the unique problem of the current universe books operating under an "everything is canon" policy, in practice meaning writers can make up whatever they want and say it happened, and free reign to ignore what has actually happened. Of course, some writers (Johns) have always had this privilege, but now anyone who makes friends with the cliques that control these companies can do it. I could go on and on, the point is that what the Big Two need more than ever is stronger continuity. High issue counts and long-established lore used to be considered a badge of honor, of decades of success. Things only get confusing when editors don't do their jobs. Rules and canon are only a constraint to uncreative minds who are not good enough writers to justify the (absurdly high all-around, but that's another story) prices for 21 pages of what's mostly poorly choreographed, silent action or repeated panels of standing and talking.
@@neighborhoodthreattvanyone who thinks continuity baggage is just a hindrance and not an opportunity obviously never read PADs Incredible Hulk, many core eras of which wouldn't exist without mining decades of old lore for new material, recontextualized but not overwritten (Gray Hulk, childhood trauma, savage hulk mind in banners body, etc)
I Still haven't finished these books despite the slight annoyance of my brother telling me to. Maybe I'll clamber my way back up to this when im done reading 2000ad comics.
Why is something being different in this alternate universe when compared to the main universe a criticism? Isn't it just a different take on the character? Also, why do you prefer the Murphyverse approach to the new ultimate universe approach? I like them both and prefer them to the main universe approach.
Murphys writing is all over the place. I really liked Punk Rock Jesus, so I was excited to see him return to writing... but boy was I disappointed when I started reading White Knight. Also, Beyond the White Knight and Plot Holes are downright awful in my opinion.
8:30. It’s such a shallow critique of Batman from people who barely understand Batman. Batman beating up poor people is mainly a result of the nature of the status , it’s not even true ( look at the penguin), he tries to go after the elite ( court of owls for example), and criminals in comics step on the poor people in Gotham all the fucking time
At times, it felt like it was written to cater to the tastes of those critics who say Batman is part of Gotham's problem because is a billionaire or so. Nevertheless, it was good
I really like what they did with Harley Quinn in White Knight, I did not know it has spin out into a whole Murphyvarse. I am a fan of the original TAS Batman cartoon and why I am happy that Harley got away from the Joker I dislike the "Dedpoolification" / Lol so random stuff that they did with her character because she was SMART IN THE ORIGINAL SHOW. That said, I do not want to take a version of the character from other fans who love them, so I feel that making another manix pixie dream girl Harley as Neo Joker for them and classic smart Harleen for fans like me is the best way to go! I really wish that the 2 Harley Quinns idea would be taken into mainstream and my dream is to have 2 Johnathan Kent's / Superboy/ Clark and Lois's sons. Because I really miss Kid John and SuperSons with Damian, but I don't want to take away from other fans who like older John with his psychcic reporter BF with his hair or fighting Injustice superman. I don't have a problem with John being Bi or Superman I am just sad that they taken away Kid John and that we did not get to see him grew up with Damian. The same way that I am sad that Harleen has been in my eyes dumb down but I know these versions of characters have their own fandoms and I really dislike the idea of taking away someone favs :(
I agree that DC and Marvel should use this self-contained-universe model more, but I feel like allowing Sean Murphy to touch a script is wrong on a moral level. I'm joking obviously, but I've never seen someone missing what makes Batman and Joker interesting this hard probably ever, and the conclusion of the first two miniserieses being to trust the cops were established as complacent and corrupt is just the cherry on top. I get it's a reimagening of the mainstream Batman universe, but how can you remix a song if you only ever listened to it through a phone speaker? Or maybe I just really don't like any version of Harley Quinn lol
The white knight universe is undeniably terrible. So many great characters get fucked over for no reason. The first book was okay and it's been all downhill from there. It's pretty much just smashing action figures together. Pointless.
If you convert episodes into podcasts you’ll be taking away monetizable views from youtube (because you doesn’t profit from audio clicks). But the video was excellent. Keep going! 😊
I avoided this Series because i don't like Sean Murphy and i just go tired of Batman books thst try so damn hard to be dark & depressing.i got tired of the joker when this Came out too. Batman White Knight just lookd played out to me on its theme & story . The Joker us boring & uninteresting I hate Murphy like k hate Geoff Johns & his work
You remember how Alan Moore made 15 sequels that detracted from watchmen? No? The trend of serialisation worms its way into any good single imprint or elseworlds story. Murphy definitely did a good job but in beyond it does feel like he wrote so much lore it's distracting from the thing the story is actually trying to say at times even if it is still really well written and all the pieces are there - It just annoys me because I like when comics are about things and the comic publishing industry (re: superhero stuff) seems to only occasionally explore new ideas and then demand a slated series of titles to milk any new premises thoroughly upon arrival
Yes what a brave new world for DC comics! Character assassinating most of their most popular characters while casually wiping away anything unique or interesting about Wonder Woman and Green Lantern to make another "people don't trust Superman" story Pass.
This is definitely a fanfic... And Batman is so dumb... It's not bad but I think this guy tried so hard to make it unique for himself that failed... And the people of Gotham... So stupid. But the art is good. It's worth the pain gpimg through each issue just nkt making sense.
The descriptions reminded of those fanfic that tries to make the bad guys into good guys (or at least sympathetic) by completely bastardizing their characterization and downplaying (if not outright ignoring) the atrocities they committed.
@@a.dennis4835 my whats and hows and whys were also directed to that. Both Jack and the Joker are criminals with plenty to answer for but the public just ignores everyone they've harmed and maimed. Either the write is lazy or he just hates Bruce Wayne.
Sean Murphy’s officially published BatQuinn fanfic
Omg that's exactly what beyond the white knight is.
But hey, it's well made fanfiction
Even so, it made me interested in the pairing I guess
And yet, by some kind of dark, forbidden magic, It works and I completely buy it!
All works, especially that off the AU, are fanfics.
It's like Gerard Way's Rising Stars.
My problem with White Knight was that by making the Joker a split personality of Napier, and by make him politically savvy afterwards, I couldn’t escape the feeling I was reading a Two-Face story in all but name. It would’ve been nice to give Dent the spotlight for once if they were just gonna use so many aspects of his story anyway.
I don't know if the pitch exactly had legs to be a whole line of comics, but the art is so damn good, and the take so specific, it's always worth checking out. Also the art is exceptional: I truly don't understand how he works so fast with such detail and texture.
Good sales can do that.
@@dakotah7683 I wouldn't say its fast tho. the stuff is few issues and the work is almost a decade long.
@@livanbard It was beating at the same the regular Batman run
Sean Murphy has been a personal favorite since I read his Punk Rock Jesus mini series many years ago. Recommend him to everyone.
What you said at the end is very interesting. It's true that the interconnectivity of the Marvel and DC universes has become a burden in some aspects. And it's true, because to me, a classic superhero character I have always loved and found very easy to follow is the Incredible Hulk. Because even though he is very popular, he is usually left pretty alone in his own corner of the Marvel universe. He rarely gets involved in editorial mandated events, and he basically never gets tie-ins interrupting the flow of his on going series. Which is a great strength to make him and his series easy to get engaged in and follow.
Another author that made something similar to Sean Murphy with White Knight, and I would say more successfully (at least on regards to aspects like characterization), is Garth Ennis with his Punisher MAX. I mention it because while he normally is said to hate superheroes, when one looks more closely at his words, that's not the case. What he hates, similar to what you mention, it's the restrains writing superheroes has. They are certain things characters aren't allowed to do, and other types of barriers as to what can get to do with a story. But like Murphy, Ennis got to work with the Punisher in his own separate continuity, contributing in many ways to reevaluating the character after a period of diminishing sales and obscurity. Yet keeping his characterization mostly in line to how he is in regular continuity.
Wow. What you just described about the Hulk comic, used the be the norm for 80% of Marvel and DC in the early 1980s.
@@juniorjames7076 yes because in 80s big tie ins were not that common in the first place.
I remember snickering when Harley Quinn mentioned she had trained in aikido. I thought to myself, “Did she think she was Steven Seagull?”.
"Seagull"
I'm sure it's auto-carrot but it's still funny
@@transopticon13 cursed to forever have his last name mispelled
I'm glad you covered this. I really enjoyed the Batman Murphyverse. It is nice to see something not tied to other books or from previously established continuity.
Murphy’s Zorro comic is basically this but not about Batman so it got little coverage in the end. If you love the main arcs of the MV then read it by all means but if you only like the MV (me) or don´t even care then don´t bother. White Knight Vol 1&2 will more or less stand the test of time but both gripped me less on a reread. The rest is getting a bit thin in my eyes so don´t ask me how Murphy will try to keep up the energy.
I’ve grown very tired of the argument that Batman creates his villains and he’s just a violent maniac. He’s compassionate, and he helps society in many ways with his means as Bruce Wayne and Batman. He values life so much he even refuses to kill the joker, thinking he can still get help. And he’s always trying to help his villains. They keep tryna man of steel him fr and it’s irritating
Also, don't like most of them have origin stories that have nothing to do with him?
I agree that I think Batman is ultimately a heroic figure, I like these comics, but it should never be the main interpretation of the character, it be like making Superman from injustice or kingdom come the main version of the character rather than his established identity.
I got into Murphy with tokyo ghost and chrononauts, particularly his art style. Im glad white knight got continuation. It was one of those books i expected to be a one off so its been a nice surprise.
Extremely underrated channel. I’m here for the long run 👌
Thanks! You continue to be the only reason I know about anything published after 1992.
Thats kinda around the time I generally walked away from mainstream comics too! By the mid to late '90s I was exclusively reading independent or foreign published graphic novels.
I think the non autonomous titles is exhausting, I like the Murphy verse, I agree that it has cinematic directorial viewpoint, ltd series are generally v good to excellent
I haven't met Sean Murphy, but I do know the girl who was the model for Harley Quinn in the first "White Knight" book. She's a local burlesque performer and model...and I told her she should be proud!
Name?
Does she have any social media?
@@jjjng5985 Yes! Of course! But she removed me from her FB for some reason...I haven't talked to her on it much, and last time we did she was in good spirits! I don't understand...
Who is she?
@@someonewhocommentsonyoutub3779 she's not that famous, or anything. She's a local performer and model, her name's Crystal.
Thanks!
Thank you! Much appreciated.
I've been wanting to read this series but I wanted a reading order for them which you graciously provided.
I've never read any of the Murphyverse stuff, but this video has piqued my curiosity enough to want to give it a try.
I really enjoyed the 1st couple series, but Beyond The White Knight was a test to read. We'll see where things go, but for now, I tread cautiously.
Please keep making videos they are so good!
I'm generally leaning away from the capes, but I may check some of this out, based on your recommendation.
TKJ got a sequel named "Hush Return" in the ongoing Gotham Knights in the mid-00s right before One More Year. It made his comedian backstory canon as Riddler knew all about Jack and his dead wife. No other writer ever picked up the arguably unconluded story. And thank god. Hush Return starts solid but turns into total garbage halfway through.
So as batman-ed out reader, I really liked White Knight. The sooner we kill the bat god characterisation; the better.
Frankly, in a different timeline, Alan Moore would’ve done a book like this.
I´m torn on this series, I love the art and the concept, but the execution has always been pretty irregular imho, but it would be cool to have more unverses like this with different characters
Excellent job 👍 🦇❤️
I mean, at this point (since the early 2000s), alternative/variant universes and "Elseworlds", not to mention constant reboots have become such the norm at both DC and Marvel, who today would have ANY expectations of consistent continuity and canon? I sure don't.
Great as always
There are 6 more series planned? That's dope, i like this series
He may have some clause in his contact for this series that he made with DC thay givea him type of control
The first two minis, the Freeze one shot, the Harley Quinn mini were excellent Elseworld stories. The third main book was ok, but predictable. The Red Hood mini does what current Batman stories couldn't: allow him to heal. And the Generation Joker one is, to be honest, the weakest.
I enjoy the artwork. It's gritty but unique
I love your perspective. Great insight. I'm going to pass on this universe, but you made the discussion enjoyable enough to watch till the end.
Side question, I know first hand restaurants use several different delivery apps and they have different rates of return. Do you get more of a pay out from TH-cam or Patreon?
I get a lot more from Patreon. TH-cam takes a noticeable slice.
I have to agree that this approach is a way forward, give the creators more freedom to produce their own version of those characters. The most popular/liked books could be expanded and continued, those would be modern updated remakes of classic tales without the messy continuity that weighs them down. Their new upcoming All-in Absolute initiative is already viewed as an elseworlds clusterfuck.
Bendis improved Spider Clone Saga was a story done well, Hickmans Secret Wars was SW for the 21th century etc. so it’s not like you cannot take inspiration from the past and sell the same material in a fresh package. But continuity has got to be put on the backseat (instead of being a constant obstacle) while the story has to be the driving force. Execution of the tale is what matters the most, not how you got to this point.
BTW the recent Ultimate revamp could have been a nice year long anniversary akin to 90s Heroes Reborn. After the initial mini series that works as an intro setup release 3 new maxi series e.g. Spidey, Panther, Strange, followed by additional minis like Ultimate Mutants & Ultimate Guardians. Nice opportunity to test the waters by focusing on characters that were skipped the first time (because they weren’t household brands), also keep it tight because you never know if the idea will even click with the readers or if it’s dead on arrival.
Murphy also admits he’s not an “A level” writer, but he says he can write at a “B level” and his art will increase that B level to an A level comic (have to listen to interviews again to confirm that) So Murphy isn’t making himself out to be Alan Moore. He’s very aware of his limitations.
Comics continuity is what got me away from reading comics in the mid-90s. I much preferred the limited series that occurred outside the traditional universe. I'm glad to see that certain writers are continuing in this area.
Neat run! Good Video!
What you said about DC pushing this storytelling model couldn't be truer, fanfic is a huge part of comic communities and everyone has their own head cannon so allowing more books to be published that could fit these molds for people would help new readers tremendously
If the Murphyverse has a million haters, then I am one of them.
If it has ten haters, then I am one of them.
If it has only one hater then that is me.
If the Murphyverse has no haters, then that means I am no longer on earth.
Same. His writing is fucking atrocious.
What he did to you bro lol
Same broooo
@@thefvguy5648 Made a good comic that wasn't schlock.
@@dakotah7683 Nah, I like the art, I just think the stories are incredibly juvenile and lacking self awareness of the fact. Their vast shallowness could almost be mistaken for depth.
I liked the first mini series, but not enough to keep reading further series...
I liked White Knight, it was really decent but it seems that they want to drag it into the ground. I don’t know if more titles is the right answer, better to leave it alone than to milk it until the taste turns sour.
It feels as this should have been 3 main series (WK, Curse, Beyond) + 3 special one shots (Freeze, Hood, Gen J) + Harley spin off mini. It had some potential left for that White Knight Finest series about League characters (which should have been published by now) and maybe another mini spin off about Gotham side cast (Catwoman, Cannary, Ivy?) titled Outlaws or Warriors of the White Knight. BUT that’s it for this Murphyverse, nowadays a solid 50 issue run is really not bad.
Looks like I made the right decision passing on this.
I like Murphy"s work. His art on his and Grant Morrison's JOE THE BARBARIAN was excellent and his own PUNK ROCK JESUS for Vertigo was pretty enjoyable. I'm just sick of "adult" darker than darkity-dark takes on Batman. There seems to be enough interesting stuff here that had he just created his own analog-style character I might have been much more interested.
Great work! Thanks.
Probably one of my favorite Batman stories that Im really invested in. It does has flaws within it but I always recommend it for a beginner to read Batman but I tell whoever reads it that it's a good representation of batman's flaws as a hero it's a good opposition to TDKR where he's a fascist that gets his way in the end before the sequels botched it.
Sean Murphy's art is legendary in this book and i have to stop myself reading it to admire a lot of minor details in the panels he adds to it and the colors are brilliant capturing the tone of the comic. Very emotional and really challenged my view of my favorite hero in the medium since reading this book and reading the current zdarsky zur en arrh focused run shows how dangerous Batman is but is needed while proving Napier right. Thanks for making this video of one of my favorite books and im glad you enjoyed the first one like I did.
The White Knight Trilogy is one of my favorite Elseworlds Batman stories.
Murphy in many interviews says he was never a comics fan. He didn’t collect when he was a kid and came to it late. I think he says he only has one long box today. He was/is a big fan of Bruce Timm’s Batman Adventures and based the Murphyverse on TAS. So any inconsistencies are because he is unfamiliar with the comics history of Batman. IMO I’m glad he went his own way. Batman is ridiculous at this point and should be given to many different creators to create their own versions of the Batman. Keeping the character, which is over 80 years old, adherent to that amount of history is plain stupid!
I enjoyed this series of book
I read the collection of the original story and it was good.
I remeber really liking white knight. I read curse and thought it was okay... Haven't bothered with thw rest.
💕🖤 LOVE IT 💜💕
Cooked!!
I read it and it's a good book in my opinion.
The original Batman white knight series was really good and great elseworld story in my opinion.
My Take: I think that Batman White Knight suffers from two things. First, the usage of modern euphemistic terms like "SJW" or "gatekeeper". IDK if DC has a policy against using terms like liberal or conservative but I feel like it really dampens any political import the series could have had. Second, it feels way too compressed at eight issues to do all that it wants. I feel that Murphy wanted his take on Fries, Neo-Joker, Harley, Joker, Gordon, Duke Thomas, and Batman to be out there but the series moved at such a speed that I barely felt I had time to get to know any of them. If the series was 10 or 12 issues I feel we could take the space out to actually enjoy these characters and get to know them.
Rule 6 is what got me into this series, in fact mainstream comics should drop the whole "universe thing" since they keep rebooting the stuff. Death Metal for exemple, would be much cooler thing if it was its own thing with its own rules instead of picking over previous stuff and kicking off a reboot nobody cared about. Imagine what they authors could do with the stuff if they were not mandated to finish it with a big ass f you we rebooting again. And honestly if DC don't want to comply with it than we just drop the series and they take another sales L in their long line of 21 century defeats.
The very fact that you keep saying "inconsistency with lore" is bit annoying. If its a mini series that is to be expect. Dark Knight Returns don't conform with stuff that was going at its time either and nobody gave a s***.
If I wanted to read a Batman book by a guy who hates Batman, I'd pick Zdarsky's run back up.
Glibness aside, I think the general idea of continuity bogging down titles is the opposite of what's actually going on in the big two. We have a minimum of two events per year and a bunch of teams that include characters who also have their own solo series and everything is constantly out of sync. Tie-ins aren't tie-ins anymore, they're always mini-series and oneshots, now, half the time not even written by whoever's writing the main book. Most big two series stretch out every story into multiple issues, making a timeline of events re:crossovers incredibly difficult to keep track of. Every new creative team is given a new #1, explicitly disconnecting the run from its publishing history. Writers are told by editorial not to read previous runs of a series. The "evergreen" books are controlled by "editors" who use the credited creative teams as ghost-writers, while not doing their paid jobs of keeping a standard of quality and continuity. DC also has the unique problem of the current universe books operating under an "everything is canon" policy, in practice meaning writers can make up whatever they want and say it happened, and free reign to ignore what has actually happened. Of course, some writers (Johns) have always had this privilege, but now anyone who makes friends with the cliques that control these companies can do it. I could go on and on, the point is that what the Big Two need more than ever is stronger continuity. High issue counts and long-established lore used to be considered a badge of honor, of decades of success. Things only get confusing when editors don't do their jobs. Rules and canon are only a constraint to uncreative minds who are not good enough writers to justify the (absurdly high all-around, but that's another story) prices for 21 pages of what's mostly poorly choreographed, silent action or repeated panels of standing and talking.
@@neighborhoodthreattvanyone who thinks continuity baggage is just a hindrance and not an opportunity obviously never read PADs Incredible Hulk, many core eras of which wouldn't exist without mining decades of old lore for new material, recontextualized but not overwritten (Gray Hulk, childhood trauma, savage hulk mind in banners body, etc)
I Still haven't finished these books despite the slight annoyance of my brother telling me to. Maybe I'll clamber my way back up to this when im done reading 2000ad comics.
Why is something being different in this alternate universe when compared to the main universe a criticism? Isn't it just a different take on the character?
Also, why do you prefer the Murphyverse approach to the new ultimate universe approach? I like them both and prefer them to the main universe approach.
Why do you pronounce Heir as Hair
Wonderful video as usual, but that mispronunciation of “heir” is INSANE
Hey narrator, are you ever gonna cover the x-men?
Murphys writing is all over the place.
I really liked Punk Rock Jesus, so I was excited to see him return to writing... but boy was I disappointed when I started reading White Knight. Also, Beyond the White Knight and Plot Holes are downright awful in my opinion.
8:30. It’s such a shallow critique of Batman from people who barely understand Batman. Batman beating up poor people is mainly a result of the nature of the status , it’s not even true ( look at the penguin), he tries to go after the elite ( court of owls for example), and criminals in comics step on the poor people in Gotham all the fucking time
At times, it felt like it was written to cater to the tastes of those critics who say Batman is part of Gotham's problem because is a billionaire or so. Nevertheless, it was good
It's a badly written "Batman" story for Twitter leftists, catering to their usual talking points. Great art, horrendous writing.
@@MegaFROMOUTERSPACE I mean the Batman doesn’t even inspire people to be real life vilgilantes
@@TheMicBartz Isn't Murphy hated by twitter leftists?
It was alright but suffered from to much "fixed for a modern audience Harley Quinn" syndrome.
keep it up
!First comment! greetings from Mexico.
I really like what they did with Harley Quinn in White Knight, I did not know it has spin out into a whole Murphyvarse. I am a fan of the original TAS Batman cartoon and why I am happy that Harley got away from the Joker I dislike the "Dedpoolification" / Lol so random stuff that they did with her character because she was SMART IN THE ORIGINAL SHOW. That said, I do not want to take a version of the character from other fans who love them, so I feel that making another manix pixie dream girl Harley as Neo Joker for them and classic smart Harleen for fans like me is the best way to go! I really wish that the 2 Harley Quinns idea would be taken into mainstream and my dream is to have 2 Johnathan Kent's / Superboy/ Clark and Lois's sons. Because I really miss Kid John and SuperSons with Damian, but I don't want to take away from other fans who like older John with his psychcic reporter BF with his hair or fighting Injustice superman. I don't have a problem with John being Bi or Superman I am just sad that they taken away Kid John and that we did not get to see him grew up with Damian. The same way that I am sad that Harleen has been in my eyes dumb down but I know these versions of characters have their own fandoms and I really dislike the idea of taking away someone favs :(
Nice. Thanks! One of the most reasonable opinions on characters I've seen in a long time!
I relate to this book on a personal level: may be a bit of a mess inside, but sure is pretty. Thanks always! :D
0:23 there’s actually 6 complete miniseries with one one-shot
For what it's worth, I've heard the Murphyverse is a bubble universe where all movies, games, shows, etc are real events
how would that make sense?
I agree that DC and Marvel should use this self-contained-universe model more, but I feel like allowing Sean Murphy to touch a script is wrong on a moral level. I'm joking obviously, but I've never seen someone missing what makes Batman and Joker interesting this hard probably ever, and the conclusion of the first two miniserieses being to trust the cops were established as complacent and corrupt is just the cherry on top. I get it's a reimagening of the mainstream Batman universe, but how can you remix a song if you only ever listened to it through a phone speaker? Or maybe I just really don't like any version of Harley Quinn lol
The white knight universe is undeniably terrible. So many great characters get fucked over for no reason. The first book was okay and it's been all downhill from there. It's pretty much just smashing action figures together. Pointless.
This series and universe was not for me.
If you convert episodes into podcasts you’ll be taking away monetizable views from youtube (because you doesn’t profit from audio clicks).
But the video was excellent. Keep going! 😊
Read what you enjoy, enjoy what you read.
I read the first 10 pages of the first issue, bafflingly terrible, it felt like someone who wanted to win a discussion on twitter.
15:30 so punisher max
Not a fan of Murphy's ridiculous Whiteverse, though.
I'm not sure that someone who reacts as sharply as that to the term "white knight" with no context is representative of the average person's view
I avoided this Series because i don't like Sean Murphy and i just go tired of Batman books thst try so damn hard to be dark & depressing.i got tired of the joker when this Came out too.
Batman White Knight just lookd played out to me on its theme & story . The Joker us boring & uninteresting
I hate Murphy like k hate Geoff Johns & his work
I really like the Murphy verse. It's a breath of fresh air.
Your decision to superficially react to the name was immature
You remember how Alan Moore made 15 sequels that detracted from watchmen? No? The trend of serialisation worms its way into any good single imprint or elseworlds story.
Murphy definitely did a good job but in beyond it does feel like he wrote so much lore it's distracting from the thing the story is actually trying to say at times even if it is still really well written and all the pieces are there - It just annoys me because I like when comics are about things and the comic publishing industry (re: superhero stuff) seems to only occasionally explore new ideas and then demand a slated series of titles to milk any new premises thoroughly upon arrival
Yes what a brave new world for DC comics!
Character assassinating most of their most popular characters while casually wiping away anything unique or interesting about Wonder Woman and Green Lantern to make another "people don't trust Superman" story
Pass.
Eyy
Sounds awful, glad i stopped reading comics yearsago.
This channel should change its name to Pretentiousness Incorporated.
Care to elaborate?
This is definitely a fanfic... And Batman is so dumb... It's not bad but I think this guy tried so hard to make it unique for himself that failed... And the people of Gotham... So stupid.
But the art is good. It's worth the pain gpimg through each issue just nkt making sense.
The descriptions reminded of those fanfic that tries to make the bad guys into good guys (or at least sympathetic) by completely bastardizing their characterization and downplaying (if not outright ignoring) the atrocities they committed.
@@a.dennis4835 my whats and hows and whys were also directed to that. Both Jack and the Joker are criminals with plenty to answer for but the public just ignores everyone they've harmed and maimed. Either the write is lazy or he just hates Bruce Wayne.
I don't really have anything to say about this one but commenting helps with discoverability and all that.
Thanks!