The Shoulders He Stood on: the Buddha's Teachers | Dr Koenraad Elst |
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- A popular narrative these days about Buddhism is that Buddha defied Sanatana Dharma, his knowledge was purely acquired by him as a revelation and it was not based on any prior knowledge prevalent in society at that time. The Buddha never claimed originality says Dr. Koenraad Elst. Buddha's knowledge and his ideas rested on the ancient knowledge. The claim of Anti- Brahminism is a recent intervention in the Buddha narrative.
About the Speaker:
Dr. Koenraad Elst was born in Leuven, Belgium, on 7 August 1959, into a Flemish (i.e. Dutch-speaking Belgian) Catholic family. He graduated in Philosophy, Chinese Studies and Indo-Iranian Studies at the Catholic University of Leuven. During a stay at the Benares Hindu University, he discovered India’s communal problem and wrote his first book about the budding Ayodhya conflict.
While establishing himself as a columnist for a number of Belgian and Indian papers, he frequently returned to India to study various aspects of its ethno-religio-political configuration and interview Hindu and other leaders and thinkers. His research on the ideological development of Hindu revivalism earned him his Ph.D. in Leuven in 1998. He has also published about multiculturalism, language policy issues, ancient Chinese history and philosophy, comparative religion, and the Aryan invasion debate.
Sub topics:
0:00 Power statement
1:40 Conflict of Buddhism being separate from Hinduism
3:35 The influence of the knowledge from ancestors
5:35 The Ambedkarite Neo-Buddhists claim Buddha was unrelated to existing Hinduism
7:20 History of Yoga- insistence that it came as Hindu digestion of Buddhist ideas
9:06 Buddha- the great Aryan personality
11:40 Buddha- the preserver or reviver of Aryan civilised Humanism
15:00 Shrikant Talageri - Hinduism can not be reduced to just Vedas
19:00 Hindu word came in existence with Muslim invasions
22:16 Bal Gangadhar Tilak - What you believe is Hinduism
25:20 Among many other prevalent traditions Vaidik tradition gained more prestige
27:15 The idea of rebirth not Vaidik
31:42 The Buddha never claimed originality
35:30 Buddha's teachers
38:50 Meditation - emptiness is the central idea
40:50 He learnt meditation techniques from his predecessors
42:55 The yoga techniques are same but the ideas built around yogic experience is different
46:10 Vaidik elements in Buddhism
50:00 After his realisation Buddha sees all his past lives
53:10 The Brahma Viharas - Divine states of mind
55:55 Buddha continues Hindu practices - Vaidik restoration
59:50 Seven precepts for Non-decline
1:03:10 No notion of conversion from Hindu to Buddhist
1:05:00 Hindu Gods venerated in Buddhist temples world over
1:07:00 The self is Nirguna- without any qualities
1:10:00 Controversy about the self is a misunderstanding
1:13:00 When consciousness rests in itself that is yoga
1:14:40 Dharmic philosophies and the highest state achieved by Buddha is later termed as Buddhism
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This ranks as one of the best discourses by Dr Elst.
Pranaams to Koenraad Elst for a brilliant talk about Buddha 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
I've been practicing Buddhism in the west for more than 20 years, and yes, there is a definite emphasis on the Buddha's teaching rather than on all the philosophy that came before him, but I have never once heard or read that he made it all up himself without connection to anything outside. I am now studying Hindu teachings and find it wonderful, profound, and, maybe even enlightening. No arguments necessary.
Maybe you haven't met Indian Neo-Buddhist, Ambedkarites, and Indian Leftists.
Elst point is that in the west - Buddhist ideas are seen to come about without any influence of dharmic or Vedic ideas. Hinduism is seen as caste and ritual filled strange religion but budhism is seen as a profound thoughts.
Dr. Elst, kindly get this talk published in a book form. Many of us are looking for a book that gives a clear historical background to as well as a rigorous philosophical analysis of the Buddha’s thought in relation to various reflective and spiritual traditions that existed at that time. Maybe something like “ Buddha the Hindu “ ?
Koenraad Elst sir please accept my sincere regards and PRANAMS 🙏🙏 Vandematram 🚩
This talk was amazing, a new awakening is on the horizon in Bharat. May the people of knowledge rise again.
I feel that the Hinduism of Indonesia speaks volumes about this topic of the harmony between the Buddha’s teachings and the society from which he came. In Indonesia, Hindus consider themselves as practicing the agama Siwa-Buddha, viewing the Buddha as a manifestation of Lord Shiva.
Lord Shiva is distinguished by being depicted as both a householder and an ascetic, something which seems unique and contradictory until the life of Siddhartha Gautama is examined. Here is a man who spent the first 29 years of his life fulfilling his filial and paternal obligations until he heeded the internal call to become an ascetic, returning not only to fulfill his original obligations to his wife and son, but for the sangha which he formed and for all of mankind.
Seen in this example and in the metaphors the Buddha uses in the Pali Canon, it is clear that Buddha viewed himself as continuing his ancestral tradition, not rejecting it.
I was eagerly waiting for this talk. Thank you Sangam, Dr. Elst.
Thank you Dr koenrad Elst.....This is what can br called a real scholarly discourse
Thankyou 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
the indologists acamedicians can never get over their "I" "mine" attitudes and lowly qualities like greed jealousy etc. They are not committed to truth. nor do they have austerities and control of senses required for realizing any great knowledge by themselves. they work for money after all. Such peoples writings are not worth reading. our ancestors, rishies, spoke truth as a vow, lived with self control and simplicity. their knowledge is spotless. they handed them over to us so carefully, free , in guru shishya lineage. Such knowledge is only worthy of learning.
The last 15 minutes of the talk is an absolute gem! So lucidly explained the things I personally had so many questions about. The more I know, the more I feel how little I know.
सर क्या ये क्या केह रहे है हमे इंग्लिश नही आती, कृपया हिंदी मे समझाये विनंती.🙏
Love Elst, Ram Swaroop and sitaram goel ji
Atma is infinite , Full not empty. not zero. poornamadah poornamidam...
Scholarly,Intellegent and so simple .Amazinf Dr.
Dr.elst thank you so much for imparting true and real knowledge 🙏🙏🙏🟠🟠🟠🕉️
I hope the Neo Buddhist will now have some sence and realise that Budhism is a small offshoot of Hinduisim.
Lol 😂 😂 keep wishing!! First of all can you even define what Hinduism is or what does an Hindu mean?
@@stalinsampras sure enough to understand better than a convert.
Wonderful!
it's just natural universal wisdom that people become blind to so they have to continually be reminded of the middle path.
wonderful
Guru ji ko pranam.
🙏
Good work
I request him to plzz write a book on this topic
👍
I come from a primitive tribe and can relate easily to the period when there was no major religion, no books. My perception of modern society is that communities striving for supremacy over others and they using religion for that.
only in varnashrama dharma, nobody focussed on accumulating wealth too much, not even kings. Today, in so called equal system, there is so much difference between the rich looters and the rest looted slaves. No one can practice a dharmic life, everybody has to work for looters called capitalistic businesses, nobody has true freedom in anything, education to medciaine to food and water also! Everything controlled by businesses . If the world does not realize the importance of varnashrama dharma, that promoted doing duty as foremost in life, no society can be dharmic or peaceful or even wealthy, Because , a few people being rich in one country does not make that entire country wealthy.
That's not exactly true. Wealth creation has been part of Indian culture, of course through dharmic means. A lot of our mathematics and science (not medical science though, where Rishi Sushrut did say that to students to use it for other's wellbeing) were directed towards practical purposes of enhancing ease of life and economic prosperity. No wonder India was the economic power house for most of modern human history.
JAI shree RAM 🙏🙏
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Har Har Mahadev 🔱🚩
This is why Hindus studied all these philosophies and followed their own Guru
YOGAS CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA!
In the CESSATION of thinking, one abides in TRUE SELF ATMA, the thinking intellectual mind as false ego identification with temporary mind and body as the Self has ceased. How to achieve YOGAS CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA, Ashta Anga Yoga Yama Niyama Assana Pranayama Pratyahara Dharana Dhyana Samadhi.
Practice of Vipashyana/Vipassana from the Rg VEDA. Gautama the Buddha taught nothing new, and only practiced and taught Vipassana from Rg VEDA. The various Buddhist sects of Buddhism are created by Buddhist not by Gautama the Buddha, the same with Hinduism is created by men, and is not the same as the original teaching of PARAMATMA who reveals the TRUTH in the heart of the Yogi practicing Ashta Anga Yoga Yama Niyama Assana Pranayama Pratyahara Dharana Dhyana Samadhi, without Samadhi there can be no YOGAS CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA CESSATION of mind thoughts religion idols. In SANATANA DHARMA ETERNAL LAW of VEDAS there are no god's, no idols, no temples, no religion, only the human body is temple of ATMA and the practice of Ashta Anga Yoga Yama Niyama Assana Pranayama Pratyahara Dharana Dhyana Samadhi Vipashyana to achieve YOGAS CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA, the realisation of ATMA and PARAMATMA. One who has achieved YOGAS CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA is known as ARYA ARYAN NOBLE ENLIGHTENED BRAHMAN BHAGAVAN SIMPLY AWAKE WHILE ALL OTHERS ARE ASLEEP IN THE UNCONSCIOUS FALSE EGO IDENTIFIED WITH MIND THOUGHTS DESIRES LUST ANGER GREED BODY MATERIAL NATURE ALL TEMPORARY IMPERMANENT ANICCA.
Namaskar OM 🙏🏽🔥🕉️
32:00
02.06.2022
#RamayanaAnime
Dear Sangam Talks TeamI request you to Please raise the voice for the re release Of Ramayan The legend of prince Ram movie in theatres with the original hindi voice acting
Please support this
request the viewers to make it a mass movement if it happens in the Big screen it will be a dream come true for us
please people support this
Jay Siyaram🙏🙏
This is a great discussion thanks you! I just read that some Islam teachings says Hinduism is a heretic deviation of Islam so I’m interested in learning more of the historical roots. 💚
Hinduism came into existence even before Hajarat Muhammad or Jesus Christ was born.
@@samirkumargupta3502 thank you for sharing that. I’m learning graciously 🙏🏾
The origin of SANATANA DHARMA ETERNAL LAW natural law like gravity/electromagnetism and not man made temporary laws or beliefs, are the VEDAS which are not books and only revealed to one who has entered Samadhi. VEDAS teach Ashta Anga Yoga Yama Niyama Assana Pranayama Pratyahara Dharana Dhyana Samadhi Vipashyana (Vipassana), from Rg VEDA. Hinduism is a modern man made phenomena and not the same as Sanatana Dharma of VEDAS which has no temples as the body is Temple of ATMA and ATMA the Temple of PARAMATMA. Gautama the Buddha taught Vipassana/Vipashyana from Rg VEDA nothing new.
Then u are actually not learning it ...🤣
Hinduism is the oldest religion before Christians and Islam emerged. Even Buddhism is older than Islam
@@stockbutterfly aww bless your heart. I hope one day you learn to share from your heart and not your ego. 🙏🏾
lakshmi and saraswathi are there in buddist temples outside of india
Watch Sanatan Samiksha channel for more info on Hindu-Buddhist relations
When he says that the Buddha never claimed originality, he is completely twisting things around. The Earlier Buddhas were not alive during Siddhartha's time, and he specifically mentions in the Pali suttas that he rediscovered the teaching purely through his own efforts. As far as the old path mentioned by the Buddha which the followers of Brahmanism today like to claim as Vedic in origin, the Buddha was very clear that the 3 Vedas are totally devoid of spiritual validity. He did not hide the old path so that we would have to guess what it was. He even went further to describe the old path as the 4 noble truths and 8-fold noble path, and both of these have absolutely nothing to do with either the Vedas or the Upanisads. Buddhist sources and teachings are the first historical documents that talk about them. You will find none of them in Hinduism until centuries later when Hinduism was formed. The orthodox Brahmins despise the Buddha as their puranas and other doctrines clearly reveal, but yet he was too great not to claim him as their own. After 2500 years they have still not stopped trying to obfuscate Buddhism while at the same time claiming to be tolerant. Will they ever stop? No, they are still not letting it go despite the fact that it no longer poses a real challenge to them. In some ways they are more worried about Buddhism than Christianity or Islam. It never fails. Koenrad is excellent in debunking the Aryan myth but then discredits himself totally by providing false information. All one has to do is to have some basic knowledge of the original suttas to prove him wrong. That causes me to doubt his credentials. He is definitely the foreign face the orthodox need as a mouthpiece.
all new guru teachings are limited applicable to certain time certain people certain context, sanatana dharma of vedas alone eternal
There is Sangya tradion but not vedism before Bhuddha.
There is something troublesome calling Vedic culture and murti culture etc etc. and as though they were mutually exclusive. Then why find Pasupati in Saraswati civilization?? And why would the murti culture not have a spiritual basis?? Pretending these so called cultures are disjoint and alien to each other is pretentious.
For your kind information It is Indus valley civilization, There is no evidence of urban city live in any of the vedas which is considered to be epitome of vedic knowledge and yet it has no information on urban city live its building or sanitation practices. Vedic was a pastoral society so what you are saying is oxymoronic. The seal found belongs to indus valley which is native indeginious culture
And besides that Pasupati is from later puranas and there is no presence of Shiva in Vedas, you can only find Rudras in the vedas who are equated to shiva falsely to subjugate Shiva into Vedic brahmanical hegemony
@@stalinsampras Stalin, eh? Sampras. Good. Keep your deep knowledge to your self, buddy.
@@stalinsampras येभिः शिवः yebhiḥ śivaḥ (RV 10.92.9) -> Who is Shiva (auspicious)त्र्यम्बकं यजामहे tryambakaṃ yajāmahe (RV 7.59.12) -> We worship the three eyed one.कपर्दिने kapardine (RV 1.114.1) -> Who has matted hairs... Rig Veda Clearly mentions Rudra as Shiva so what's your source?
@@stalinsampras Do you even realize that rural and urban has always coexisted in Bharata?
@@apaguptarna Okay i will keep my knowledge to myself, Which is current scientific consensus. And you can happily live in your ignorace and be an idiot in this information age
Sir, Your presentation is devoid any reference to standard Buddhist text. Even if you read " Budhcharitam" by Ashwaghosh, You will find a that Siddharth visited a number of Rishis and Ashrama before he attained enlightenment. A number of references are there about Vedic Devtas, previous Ishvaku Kings and other kings, King Dasrath and lord Ram, Rishi Vedvyas and so on. Any attempt to separate personally Siddharth from Sanatan Dharma is artificial. Of course, his teachings as reported in in his Buddhist text take rather strange course which I would not like to comment.
nice anlaysis
Buddha as reincarnation of lord vishnue, only to misled people is what hindu text says about buddha and many others text written in 12th century where Buddha was criticised and blamed in hindu text....
If a hindu criticises buddha ..he too is stupid
This guy either knows nothing about Buddhism or is lying and saying wrong things about it deliberately.
1) Yes, of course the Buddha had teachers like Alar Kalam and Uddhalak Ramapurta. But where they Hindus? No. They are not even Vedic. They were Shramans.
2) Take the word “vector.” It means direction in physics, and an organism in biology. The world is the same! Just because the word is the same does not mean that it is means the same. The words like Dhyana, Mukti, Samadhi, Arya etc were already present in those days and widely used by different groups. And that was the language of that time. He too used the same words. However, he had to categorically define what he means by each term: Buddhism is very technical. You can’t not know and beat around the bush and act like you know: like this guy is trying to do.
Another example: the word Karma. Hindus, Jains, Buddhists: all of them use this word very heavily: yet, each of them have a different understanding of what Karma exactly is for them.
Take another example: Mukti. Even within Hinduism, the word Mukti can mean different things. Bhakti practices define Mukti very differently than Advaitists. Mukti in Yoga-Tantra is different than in others. The definition of Mukti is different even among the so called Jagathgurus: Shankaracharya, Madhaavacharya etc. So, how can you say that just because one word is used, it means they all followed the same thing? What nonsense? And he presents to be a scholar!😂
3) About different deities: namely Vishnu, Indra, Bramha etc: THEY worshiped the Buddha. Buddha did not worship them.
www.asianart.com/rochell/9.html
Here is a link to one Indra and Bramha worshipping the Buddha.
So, even for Buddhists: they don’t worship these deities, in a sense that the Hindus do. Buddhists only give offerings, like food, lamp, incense etc. These devatas are Buddhist devatas. They to have realized that they will die. They too have seen the truth in the Buddha’s teachings and have taken refuge in the Buddha and practice. They have promised the Buddha or other highly advanced Mahasiddha such as Guru Padmashambava; that any Buddhist who gives them offerings; they will help remove obstacles in the practice: thus they are known as Dharmapals: or protector of Dharma.
Worshipping them as the creator and an all powerful deity who controls our destiny- and giving them offerings to help- the difference is: as much as making them our masters or giving them a piece of bread to guard the house! And that is a huge difference.
krishna is buddha
bas yahi gandagi failni baki reh gayi thi.
@@singh-ib2qp konsi gandagi?
Matlab kuchh bhi..... aaplog Bina Padhe... kisi k bhi bare me kuchh bhi Buckwas karne lagte ho.
@@singh-ib2qp or isme Galati hai pur yaha Gandagi kya dikha aapko.....?????
@@neeleshkumar5730 yehi mand bhuddhi gadhe kal chatukarita mein 'Krishna is Jesus' bhi kahenge
yeh dimag ki gandagi hi hai.
Jyada jaankari ke liye Sanatan Samiksha pe Buddhism ki pol khol dekh saktein hain.
Forming conclusions based on scant knowledge, the mark of a fool.
Hinduism is the branch of Buddhism
Buddhism is the Branch of Hinduism.... .
Hinduism is the Oldest Surviving Culture.... . Hinduism is divided into many Branches Known as Sampradaye like..... Shaiva, Shakta, Vaishnav, Ganapatya, Shourya, Chaarwak, Jain then after that Buddhism came... and after Buddhism... Sikhism came... . And these Sampradaye later divide into many parts.... according to their Vidhi and Darshan Shastra.
So You Read the Proper Itihaas....., you Correct your Mistake and you Don't promote the Fake Narratives.
Oh wow ..🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hinduism is the oldest
@cad cam is it a typo mistake, or you have lost your mind??
@@samirkumargupta3502 must be he/she is Bheemta or Neo Buddhist(Ambedkarwadi).
Why Hindus relay on psudo historian. Grow up please
let time pass ...everything will be alright
Pseudo historians like Romila Thapper from British stooge family? Get off your high horse
LOL, should rely on you, instead? I suggest you actually read some of Dr. Elst's numerous works before making random comments
The disciple who cremated buddha and became the president of first buddhist council in 483 BC held in tajir convened by king ajatashatru was himself a brahmin named Mahakashyapa(called mahakassapa in pali canon).