Where I live, Tesla’s are everywhere. If I drive 5 miles (residential), I will typically see 5 or more. It’s kind of weird seeing 3 Tesla’s stopped at a traffic light but it is not uncommon. (I live in Silicon Valley.)
that car makes m mad... GM had a GOOD THINK when the concept arrived with futuristic styling and then BAMM!! they release a turd @ production ,,, it had so much promise and gm dropped the ball AS USUAL
its a MUCH BETTER CAR if you care about fun so of cours,, because im not paying $48k for a VW,,,, maybe if it was a toureg MAYBE,,, but not for a CC...
I'm curious to know how you talked the price down on the arteon that much. Is it the power of being able to buy in cash? For the many of us that has to finance, I'm not so sure such a discount will be considered...
15:56 I have a 2017 Avalon trust me IT WORKS.... I had to conduct a panic stop I push the brake and I had already felt it kicking back because the car intervened At the same time that I did it disengaged when it noticed I was also on the brakes and handed it over to me
Start-Stop feature in 4cyl turbo cars is dangerous pulling out in cross traffic . You got to rush out in traffic and have to wait almost 2 seconds to start and power up. It’s a real shocker when you get in and out different cars and don’t expect it .
Definitely not! An old Tesla will be like an old iPhone...worthless and obsolete since it’s more of an appliance that doesn’t possess any characteristics/personality a classic/vintage car would have.
While expected they would rate the Supra as a BMW, I was surprised when they rated the Scion/Toyota 86 and BRZ as a Subaru. Why? Because that rear wheel drive transmission it uses is from Asian, which is Toyota's transmission company and not a Subaru sourced transmission. Sure the engine is Subaru, but the transmission is Toyota. Which means the Toyota 86 is a true hybrid of the two companies as the electronics in the Toyota are also from Toyota. The electronics in the Subaru BRZ are from Toyota as well I believe.
As an alternative to electric charging stations, what ever happened to the idea of standardized dimension, shapes and connection standardization to enable swappable battery arrays, together with swapping stations, that instead up a tank fill up, a battery pack swap for a fully charged unit.
You never know what is going to draw attention at cruise ins these days. The Charger/Challenger/Vette/Camaro/Mustangs will always attract attention. However, the ones I find interesting are the survivor "every day" cars. Hot Rod's Power Tour kickoff had a lot of "ordinary" survivirs - including 3 Chrysler fuselage wagons!
I can't speak for the driving dynamics but that Arteon is sexy as hell. Why can't you use something like a foam wall or a cardboard box to test auto braking?
My question about the BMW Supra is, are these all new parts, or is BMW using off the shelf engine, transmission, and other mechanicals? I know CR always suggests not buying first year cars until they've been tested for a while. And that Toyota gets its reputation for reliability from carrying over tested parts.
I read an in depth explanation on all the changes Toyota insisted on for their version of the Supra/Z4 down to nuts and bolts that needed to meet their standards. IF you had done your homework you would have known that the Supra will be more reliable because of these changes which were almost all done to improve reliability.
It's easy to choose future classics... they are special versions of cars people made memories in or fell in love with when they were younger. I have the Hemi version of the K Car and it turns heads wherever I go, Everyone has a story about their old K Car, or their mom's K Car and the Hemi makes it special. Just about everyone drove or drove in a Mustang... and now the special mustangs are desired over most better cars from the era....
Twenty years is not far enough down the road. Last I saw the average age of vehicles currently on the Canadian roads is now around 12 years. Should be thinking about 50 years. Pick-ups and SUV's are currently the trend but I would put my money into the current muscle cars. Car enthusiast will always lean towards the sportier models.
1:34 Before I really get too far into the video, I'm going to add my guess and see if anyone else pick's it. So I'm going to stick to top gear rules here. a car must be rare, interesting, and beautiful, or at least two out of the three. I'm also going to add a bonus point, based on my experience, if it has a modding community, because that eliminates large numbers of cars due to some teenager blowing the motor and sending it into a tree at some point. First up, the tesla line up, I'm tempted to say no here. They are interesting; but most are not drop dead gorgeous and they are not rare, plus their owners care for them in a way that keeps "everything factor" which means great examples will not be hard to find. so it will definitely be the Ford Taurus or Nissan Maxima of tomorrow, a great daily driver on the cheap, but not a classic. side note - there should be a name for that class of car, maybe "busta cars?" I will give one stipulation though. if a modding community takes an interest in Tesla's and starts ripping them apart for fun,, then it will be a classic. Because one that doesn't have some stupid, half baked add on that causes the car to randomly shut down periodically at highway speeds, will suddenly become rare. like an old civic. so obvious picks include the F-type (espically the 2015 only RWD v-8), the Acura NSX, the ford raptor (because the owners definitely make that line an endangered species), focus RS, Civic Type R, Lexus LC, and any top tier muscle car (hellcat, zl1, GT350r). To less obvious picks/more risky bets I'm thinking the Audi TT, KIA Stinger, Ford Fiesta ST, and maybe the BMW i3 if the i sub-brand starts to gain a real following.
I did think about the 300c, but I have to disagree for one simple reason, it's already a niche market product. Niche market products are great consistent sellers (not necessarily high volume) that have loyal customers, and little to no competition. Examples include the miata, the wrangler, and most of the Subaru brand. I'd be surprised if Chrysler has realized this, my guess is they keep the car around because it keeps selling. So, Chrysler should make the smart play, and not touch it for awhile. They should however, continue to make new ones, and make minor improvements, at least until they understand what the Chrysler 300 customer wants. Once they understand what fundamentally a Chrysler 300 buyer wants, then Chrysler can start tweaking the recipe. That means the overall numbers for this car should be quite large, and they won't change in value because a brand new one will always be available. So it will be a cult classic, but not one that has a lot of value attached to it.
How would you compare the Arteon to the Stinger? As for a future classic? My best guess would be a FJ Cruiser. Not that many made. Only thing that could hurt it is the upcoming Bronco. If Ford make something worthwhile it could hurt the future prospect of the FJ. My next guess is the new Corvette. If GM make it reasonably reliable it is potentially a Porsche, NSX killer.
Cars I love to see in a show, future classics for different reasons. First Velostar N, the 1st N in our market and hopefully Hyundai has a complete line of “N’s”, hence making this car the classic. Sort of like the 1st gen VW Gti. Second, the BMW M2 comp, for the complete opposite, as it may be the last pure drivers car from a company that was known for being known for THE sports sedan.
Alas, keeping today's vehicles operational 20 years from now seems overly optimistic. Perhaps such vehicles will arrive at the car show on a flatbed truck. Manufacturers are all piling onto the cell-phone-as-a-key bandwagon; will there be a compatible and functioning phone (with corresponding app supporting proprietary protocols) in the future? Vehicles are increasingly connected to the cellular data network for over-the-air updates and "Wi-Fi" for the vehicle occupants; today, 2G phones are already mostly unsupported by the cellular providers, so the 3G and 4G interfaces built-in to today's vehicles almost certainly won't work 20 years from now (and if they did, their software may have unpatched security vulnerabilities making it dangerous to do so). Finally, manufacturers are increasingly relying on one giant LCD to control everything in the vehicle; good luck on that tech still working in 20 years.
Hey guys, love the show! I’m still perplexed as to why Toyota would put their badge on a BMW. On the other hand, you could also look at it like this. Toyota and BMW developed this together, supposedly. Maybe Toyota taught BMW a few things about reliability and BMW taught Toyota a thing or two about driving dynamics. It could end up that the 3.0TT in the Supra and Z4 will be more reliable than past 3.0TT BMW engines. Perhaps that is why BMW is widely using this engine across their lineup. I guess time will tell....One more thing. I have a strong feeling that Toyota shared its new Corolla hatchback underpinnings with the new BMW M135i hatch. It looks oddly familiar to the Corolla hatch, both inside and out. I’m sure Toyota and BMW didn’t just share tech between the Supra and Z4.
Love these videos! But someone’s nose breathing noise heard throughout the video on my headphones is a little annoying. I think it may be John. Maybe put the microphone a little farther away from you. 😜. Or I could just not listen through my headphones I guess.
More talk about things related to the Arteon than about the Arteon specifically. I understand giving a First Impression some context, but this went overboard.
I thought so too. Ruminating and second guessing Volkswagen's decision to make the car in the first place is neither a review NOR a first impression. Ryan: "It rides nice." Thank you, Ryan.
dcjimr1 I’m sure it’s not just those guys who go buy cars, they have hundreds of employees and could always hire someone to do it or get a friend/relative to do it, etc.
they sometimes build the cars online and have ANOTHER individual pick it up and they normally call ahead, and regardless if they test drive the car the dealer is screwed buy then anyway
The pop cars of future will be the very popular cars of today. Anything with a big V8 cause none will be made in future . Hummers 😆 Super performer like Nissan GT-R. Japanese cars 80s just starting to pop now
Lord Commander Manny - Hey! Even the non-GS Regals with the T-2.0L and available AWD make a better (and slightly cheaper + more reliable) German large hatch option to the Arteon. If you need more cargo room there's the TourX WAGON (as low slung as the hatch or the Malibu sedan who's based on). PS: If you're watching from overseas this may apply to the Opel / Vauxhall Insignia and the '19 Holden Commodore as well... (all along with the Regal made in the same German factory)
Vw should stick to their Econo boxes. They have a BMW fantasy. The Phaeton was a massive flop. The Arteon is in the same mould. You guys have no idea about king term classic cars.
Guys Arteon is the best value German car period. It is made in Germany with 72 month bumper to bumper warranty. the Passat is made in Tennessee with Mexican and American parts. South Carolina BMW 3 series and Alabama C Klasse all have suspect quality.
"I did not think it was the most sporty but that's the way everything is headed. I get that" Cars will be so boring we will no longer want to drive. CR please remind consumers that fun is part of what makes life worth living.
John Linkov: please do not embarrass yourself and CR any further: Arteons are already openly advertised at $5K off MSRP. Your "negotiation skills" are exactly zero.
Chevy SS, I think that will be a classic in 20 years.
The dream team on the panel
Totally off topic, but Ryan has crazy-big hands. Huge. Enormous even.
lmaooo never noticed
Where I live, Tesla’s are everywhere. If I drive 5 miles (residential), I will typically see 5 or more. It’s kind of weird seeing 3 Tesla’s stopped at a traffic light but it is not uncommon. (I live in Silicon Valley.)
I'm going to vote for the Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ as being highly desirable in 20 years (especially with a manual transmission)
yeapp
I think the Pontiac Aztek will be one of the unique cars in car shows.
that car makes m mad... GM had a GOOD THINK when the concept arrived with futuristic styling and then BAMM!! they release a turd @ production ,,, it had so much promise and gm dropped the ball AS USUAL
For $38k, instead of an Arteon, get a RWD based Kia Stinger GTS. Kia is putting $10k on the hood right now. Such a better car
its a MUCH BETTER CAR if you care about fun so of cours,, because im not paying $48k for a VW,,,, maybe if it was a toureg MAYBE,,, but not for a CC...
False. The Arteon is the better car and more so the 2022-2023 MY with 300HP/295TQ and 7-Speed DSG.
Another entertaining Talking Cars. Keep Up the good work.
Totally agree the Chrysler 300 will be appreciated as a classic in 20 years.
Oh yes, it’s such a high quality car that I don’t see on a daily basis everywhere
I'm curious to know how you talked the price down on the arteon that much. Is it the power of being able to buy in cash? For the many of us that has to finance, I'm not so sure such a discount will be considered...
Toyota FJ Cruiser would be one of my picks for a future classic.
Jake is like a mad genius!
Really want to hear consumers reports view on VW recent announcement that they are reducing there warranty coverage periods. Very telling in my view
15:56 I have a 2017 Avalon trust me IT WORKS.... I had to conduct a panic stop I push the brake and I had already felt it kicking back because the car intervened At the same time that I did it disengaged when it noticed I was also on the brakes and handed it over to me
The Arteon looks nice... But seems to be the equivalent to a Kia Stinger 2.0L for Stinger GT 3.3L money.
just get a stinger for christ sake!!!
The low profile tires on trucks is to also help with EPA gas mileage numbers. I rather have a good tall sidewall and not as good gas mileage. 😊👍🏻
How can you negotiate great deals like that?
lol
Start-Stop feature in 4cyl turbo cars is dangerous pulling out in cross traffic . You got to rush out in traffic and have to wait almost 2 seconds to start and power up. It’s a real shocker when you get in and out different cars and don’t expect it .
My car! A manual VW Golf TDI Sportwagen.
I think the original Tesla Model S cars will be desired and vintage one day. Was it a 60 kWh battery?
Definitely not! An old Tesla will be like an old iPhone...worthless and obsolete since it’s more of an appliance that doesn’t possess any characteristics/personality a classic/vintage car would have.
While expected they would rate the Supra as a BMW, I was surprised when they rated the Scion/Toyota 86 and BRZ as a Subaru. Why? Because that rear wheel drive transmission it uses is from Asian, which is Toyota's transmission company and not a Subaru sourced transmission. Sure the engine is Subaru, but the transmission is Toyota. Which means the Toyota 86 is a true hybrid of the two companies as the electronics in the Toyota are also from Toyota. The electronics in the Subaru BRZ are from Toyota as well I believe.
As an alternative to electric charging stations, what ever happened to the idea of standardized dimension, shapes and connection standardization to enable swappable battery arrays, together with swapping stations, that instead up a tank fill up, a battery pack swap for a fully charged unit.
If any of this mass produce car actually last 20 plus years I guess they will be a classic
Get to the freakin Arteon driving impressions already!
You never know what is going to draw attention at cruise ins these days. The Charger/Challenger/Vette/Camaro/Mustangs will always attract attention. However, the ones I find interesting are the survivor "every day" cars. Hot Rod's Power Tour kickoff had a lot of "ordinary" survivirs - including 3 Chrysler fuselage wagons!
I can't speak for the driving dynamics but that Arteon is sexy as hell. Why can't you use something like a foam wall or a cardboard box to test auto braking?
My question about the BMW Supra is, are these all new parts, or is BMW using off the shelf engine, transmission, and other mechanicals?
I know CR always suggests not buying first year cars until they've been tested for a while. And that Toyota gets its reputation for reliability from carrying over tested parts.
Veloster N will be a classic
I read an in depth explanation on all the changes Toyota insisted on for their version of the Supra/Z4 down to nuts and bolts that needed to meet their standards. IF you had done your homework you would have known that the Supra will be more reliable because of these changes which were almost all done to improve reliability.
It's easy to choose future classics... they are special versions of cars people made memories in or fell in love with when they were younger. I have the Hemi version of the K Car and it turns heads wherever I go, Everyone has a story about their old K Car, or their mom's K Car and the Hemi makes it special. Just about everyone drove or drove in a Mustang... and now the special mustangs are desired over most better cars from the era....
1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee
I think any Lotus down the road will be very valuable 🙌🏽
Twenty years is not far enough down the road. Last I saw the average age of vehicles currently on the Canadian roads is now around 12 years. Should be thinking about 50 years.
Pick-ups and SUV's are currently the trend but I would put my money into the current muscle cars. Car enthusiast will always lean towards the sportier models.
We still love the Dodge magnum!!
What about an F-Type...
1:34 Before I really get too far into the video, I'm going to add my guess and see if anyone else pick's it. So I'm going to stick to top gear rules here. a car must be rare, interesting, and beautiful, or at least two out of the three. I'm also going to add a bonus point, based on my experience, if it has a modding community, because that eliminates large numbers of cars due to some teenager blowing the motor and sending it into a tree at some point.
First up, the tesla line up, I'm tempted to say no here. They are interesting; but most are not drop dead gorgeous and they are not rare, plus their owners care for them in a way that keeps "everything factor" which means great examples will not be hard to find. so it will definitely be the Ford Taurus or Nissan Maxima of tomorrow, a great daily driver on the cheap, but not a classic. side note - there should be a name for that class of car, maybe "busta cars?"
I will give one stipulation though. if a modding community takes an interest in Tesla's and starts ripping them apart for fun,, then it will be a classic. Because one that doesn't have some stupid, half baked add on that causes the car to randomly shut down periodically at highway speeds, will suddenly become rare. like an old civic.
so obvious picks include the F-type (espically the 2015 only RWD v-8), the Acura NSX, the ford raptor (because the owners definitely make that line an endangered species), focus RS, Civic Type R, Lexus LC, and any top tier muscle car (hellcat, zl1, GT350r).
To less obvious picks/more risky bets I'm thinking the Audi TT, KIA Stinger, Ford Fiesta ST, and maybe the BMW i3 if the i sub-brand starts to gain a real following.
I did think about the 300c, but I have to disagree for one simple reason, it's already a niche market product. Niche market products are great consistent sellers (not necessarily high volume) that have loyal customers, and little to no competition. Examples include the miata, the wrangler, and most of the Subaru brand.
I'd be surprised if Chrysler has realized this, my guess is they keep the car around because it keeps selling. So, Chrysler should make the smart play, and not touch it for awhile. They should however, continue to make new ones, and make minor improvements, at least until they understand what the Chrysler 300 customer wants. Once they understand what fundamentally a Chrysler 300 buyer wants, then Chrysler can start tweaking the recipe. That means the overall numbers for this car should be quite large, and they won't change in value because a brand new one will always be available. So it will be a cult classic, but not one that has a lot of value attached to it.
3000 GTVR4 spyder, Supra Turbo A8, M3, GT350R, C8, GT4, RX7, Ford GT will all be classics when we look back upon it in 30 years.
they already are
How would you compare the Arteon to the Stinger? As for a future classic? My best guess would be a FJ Cruiser. Not that many made. Only thing that could hurt it is the upcoming Bronco. If Ford make something worthwhile it could hurt the future prospect of the FJ. My next guess is the new Corvette. If GM make it reasonably reliable it is potentially a Porsche, NSX killer.
arteon???haaaaaa!!!!! stinger will be 1 for sure... german inspired development/engineering in a RWD korean car???? IMMEDIATE CLASSIC
Cars I love to see in a show, future classics for different reasons. First Velostar N, the 1st N in our market and hopefully Hyundai has a complete line of “N’s”, hence making this car the classic. Sort of like the 1st gen VW Gti. Second, the BMW M2 comp, for the complete opposite, as it may be the last pure drivers car from a company that was known for being known for THE sports sedan.
FJ Cruiser?????
YEAPP!!!!!
Jaguar 🐆 S-type is gonna be vintage down the line.
Kadeen Hunter, it looked vintage when it was in the dealer sold as new...
Alas, keeping today's vehicles operational 20 years from now seems overly optimistic. Perhaps such vehicles will arrive at the car show on a flatbed truck. Manufacturers are all piling onto the cell-phone-as-a-key bandwagon; will there be a compatible and functioning phone (with corresponding app supporting proprietary protocols) in the future? Vehicles are increasingly connected to the cellular data network for over-the-air updates and "Wi-Fi" for the vehicle occupants; today, 2G phones are already mostly unsupported by the cellular providers, so the 3G and 4G interfaces built-in to today's vehicles almost certainly won't work 20 years from now (and if they did, their software may have unpatched security vulnerabilities making it dangerous to do so). Finally, manufacturers are increasingly relying on one giant LCD to control everything in the vehicle; good luck on that tech still working in 20 years.
Future car shows? My guess is that they will be virtual. Why leave your pod?
Arteon rocks!
not for $48K fairly equipped
@@JDMHazeThey never sold at MSRP. Transaction prices were always $5K-10K below sticker.
Hey guys, love the show! I’m still perplexed as to why Toyota would put their badge on a BMW. On the other hand, you could also look at it like this. Toyota and BMW developed this together, supposedly. Maybe Toyota taught BMW a few things about reliability and BMW taught Toyota a thing or two about driving dynamics. It could end up that the 3.0TT in the Supra and Z4 will be more reliable than past 3.0TT BMW engines. Perhaps that is why BMW is widely using this engine across their lineup. I guess time will tell....One more thing. I have a strong feeling that Toyota shared its new Corolla hatchback underpinnings with the new BMW M135i hatch. It looks oddly familiar to the Corolla hatch, both inside and out. I’m sure Toyota and BMW didn’t just share tech between the Supra and Z4.
Last Saab 9-5 and 9-4x
The Honda Civic Type R is going to be a classic in the future
Would someone please make up some cue cards for Ryan?
The TRUCKLA will be a uniquely collectible car (so I guess).
2020 Corvette
I'll take a Stinger GT over the Arteon any day. At the lower fwd trims a loaded Accord touring is a much better car long term
Love these videos! But someone’s nose breathing noise heard throughout the video on my headphones is a little annoying. I think it may be John. Maybe put the microphone a little farther away from you. 😜. Or I could just not listen through my headphones I guess.
More talk about things related to the Arteon than about the Arteon specifically. I understand giving a First Impression some context, but this went overboard.
I thought so too. Ruminating and second guessing Volkswagen's decision to make the car in the first place is neither a review NOR a first impression.
Ryan: "It rides nice." Thank you, Ryan.
The guy on the right is a card carrying Asian car lover. He could not possibly hide his bias😂
Wouldn't salespeople at car dealerships recognize you all by now? I'm not sure how you can always remain anonymous.
dcjimr1 I’m sure it’s not just those guys who go buy cars, they have hundreds of employees and could always hire someone to do it or get a friend/relative to do it, etc.
they sometimes build the cars online and have ANOTHER individual pick it up and they normally call ahead, and regardless if they test drive the car the dealer is screwed buy then anyway
A new car that will be a future classic: Honda Civic Type R, Dodge Demon, Ford Mustang GT350R, Chevrolet Camaro ZL1, Ford Focus RS, Ford SVT Raptor.
Future classics that aren’t a super/hyper car or over 100k...raptor, gladiator, gwagon? Evora, gt350, zr1 and similar special editions under 100k.
its a VW Stinger/Sonata/Nexo
Supra or Z4 could be future classics
Ford 500 is destined to be a rare classic.
you better be talking about the OLD 1 and not the 2005+ model lol
The pop cars of future will be the very popular cars of today. Anything with a big V8 cause none will be made in future . Hummers 😆 Super performer like Nissan GT-R. Japanese cars 80s just starting to pop now
Ford Focus Rs, Fiesta St maybe future collectible
hvacrmike too much made not rare
ONLY in the US
Brz/yrs and the supra will be classics in 20 years
supra will be a classic hall-of-shamer
Mazda RX-8 and Mazda Millenia.
RX8??? no... RX7 holds that spot,, the RX8 was washed up by comparrision,,, maybe the 2+2 layout might get it a spot
Jake, please don't talk so much. Keep your answers short and let the others speak! I am asking nicely!
Magnum SRT8.
yeap.... a US MARKET v8 WAGON thats NOT a mercedes/audi,,, oh its guaranteed to be a classic
Why won’t customers rebel against the crick in the neck, hideously poor back and side visibility styling?
because there are other choices like subaru etc. 1st lets rebel against cvts
I rather the Buick Regal GS which is also made in German car. Plus big big rebates on Buick and 3.6 V6
Lord Commander Manny - Hey! Even the non-GS Regals with the T-2.0L and available AWD make a better (and slightly cheaper + more reliable) German large hatch option to the Arteon. If you need more cargo room there's the TourX WAGON (as low slung as the hatch or the Malibu sedan who's based on).
PS: If you're watching from overseas this may apply to the Opel / Vauxhall Insignia and the '19 Holden Commodore as well... (all along with the Regal made in the same German factory)
GM ALWAYS offers incentives because they usually know their cars are GARBAGE , how many times you want your engine replaced?
Vw should stick to their Econo boxes. They have a BMW fantasy. The Phaeton was a massive flop. The Arteon is in the same mould. You guys have no idea about king term classic cars.
Ryan 😍
Guys Arteon is the best value German car period. It is made in Germany with 72 month bumper to bumper warranty. the Passat is made in Tennessee with Mexican and American parts.
South Carolina BMW 3 series and Alabama C Klasse all have suspect quality.
20 yrs... the big german v12s
Production number really doesn’t matter: exhibit VW bus
FJ Crusier
BINGO!!!!
Jeep? Dust in 6 years.
Some SUVs will be classic.
A Toyota rated as bad as a BMW? That is not good for Toyota.
Looks like a Citroenc6
"I did not think it was the most sporty but that's the way everything is headed. I get that"
Cars will be so boring we will no longer want to drive. CR please remind consumers that fun is part of what makes life worth living.
Love the show but seriously, Jake, please let someone else talk!
I'll be dead in 20 years so I won't see it.
John Linkov: please do not embarrass yourself and CR any further: Arteons are already openly advertised at $5K off MSRP. Your "negotiation skills" are exactly zero.
I made it 15 minutes into this boring video, and had to stop. Because I like to hear myself talk, doesn’t mean I should just keep talking.
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whinny