It's my experience that I fall from the pedestal (which I don't want to be on) because I start to show up more authentically in the relationship, with my faults and humanness, and they are then disappointed.
Yes - and I even say things like “take me off the pedestal - I will eventually fail you on some perceived level”. Yet - there they go. And yup, my authenticity does it every time.
@@FowlAnticsI remember the first time I told someone this. I've tried to manage perceptions and that doesn't work either! It turns out there's a pedestal for everything we do... everything except being authentic it seems.
I get this A LOT! Many times other musicians or filmmakers I work with @ first think I'm great and want to do my songs, scripts, etc.... THEN they become INTIMIDATED by my enthusiasm, energy, focus, and talents, and then they start the sabotage process behind my back. This is why I only work alone now.
I once heard: "I hate when someone can just jump into a song and start improvising" "What's wrong with that?" "I don't know. It's just so annoying" What the hell man??? His face even turned red. I have heard similar stuff A LOT. I now have two compact studios full of songs. I play EVERYTHING. I never needed anyones recognision. I make the music just for me. It would be nice to earn some money out of it though 😊
Most people are intimated by those that instead of competing with them, understand the only true competition is with oneself, and are therefore diminished within the other's impartiality.
This is what happened to me with my “best friend” of 10 years. I had started to have an opinion and be more vocal of my needs. She then started to shame me and became emotionally ab*sive towards me. I ended the relationship in April. This happens to me a lot and now I see why. Thank you for this video 🙏🏻
Whoa. The exact same thing just happened to me in August. A ten year “best friendship” ended after I started speaking up for my own needs, as well as expressing my observations openly (for example, she would mine information from me then pitch it as her own, and I called it out). I’m at peace with the conclusion our relationship knowing she was just using me as an audience and energy source all along. One of the most revealing moments was when I realized how much I knew about her and how little she knew about me. I do hope you are finding peace, as well. 🙏🏽
@@saganhuxley I’m so sorry to hear that 😔. We gave the relationship our all!! Looking back, I had played so many roles in her life and I was getting tired and drained by her. When I stopped doing some of the things I would and stopped putting her on a pedestal (1. Bc I realized it was one-sided and 2. She added nothing to my life but took from it), she started acting horribly towards me. So I’m thinking it wasn’t that she valued me as a person all along but what I provided and did for her. It hurts knowing that and feeling that I had to silence myself and dim myself down for the friendship to exist in the first place. I have found so much peace in knowing I didn’t lose anything but time and energy. She lost a rare gem. I hope you find peace in knowing that you’re a rare gem who needs to be respected and loved as you are 🙏🏻❤️
I can relate to your experience. I "lost" a friend of 12 years. And spent the next 9 years with severe emotional trauma. I found a new friend who pulled me out of all this just by accepting me for who I am. I'm so thankful for his presence in my life 🙏
Thank you for sharing this information. You described my childhood to a tee. Yes, people liked me a lot but it was only because I reflected to them something that they wanted to see in themselves. Their feelings about me never had anything to do with me, and that is a horrible place to live. I'm noticing that more and more in my adulthood and I have little tolerance in dealing with it anymore. Agreed, better to be the person I am than to be the person others need me to be to make them feel good about themselves.
What you said is the most freeing thing to learn: their feelings about you have nothing to do with you. Both good and bad. It's so easy to process that their good feelings are invalid, while their negative feelings seem warranted. Often times the ability to see both sides of things is to our detriment.
I need noones approval , I'm my own person ,living my own life and being my true self. No longer dressing down around female friend's to make them feel better ,telling me my I'm not a woman etc, I've attached myself to some really low vibration people trying to help them. But no more. I'm not gonna downplay my feelings or truth. Im just gonna be more inclusive on who gets to sit at my Table.
I'm so grateful for finding this channel. For years I have tried to understand why bad situations have happened with certain people that I thought I had grown close to. The relief I feel from understanding these situations is humongous! I finally feel like I can let go of things that have been hurting for so long. Thank you so, so much! 💕
For years, especially when younger, I was definitely the smile and nod friend. I did whatever my friends wanted to do because I was also the "we can do whatever' friend. Self absorbed and bossy ppl can sense that trait a mile away. Nowadays once I sense they're trying to assert their dominance, something in my gut pings. Kinda like an unexpected deep itch. My energy completely shifts into "Im not gonna play these games with you". Of course, manipulative ppl will make it seem like your overreacting but if you don't nip it early on, theyll think youre the smile and nod kind.
The chickens are truly coming home to roost on this one with a co-worker struggling with her anxious attachment style, to put it diplomatically. Approaching this is harder than any break up I've been through in terms of my desire to leave her sense of self intact [she can spiral like no-one I've known] while holding firm boundaries as we still work very closely together. I feel as though this experience has eviscerated the Enabler in me. That cat has met its 10th death.
I can see when it is happening. I even had a dream that showed me it was happening behind my back. I dreamed I went to hang out with the group and the leader said "shorten him" . One guy said he had a knife; which I saw as a back stabbing done quietly. Thank you for your help Wenzes. I will remember that: "It is better to be hated for being myself than be liked for being who I'm not" I feel bad that I used my "skills" decitfully but I forgive myself. God made me a certin way and allowed tragic things to happen to me and around me. I pray I can help others see Jesus' love with my inate and hard won talents in a mature way. You are helping many Wenzes. May God revael even more truth to you daily.
On a personal level, this video has been your most enlightening one yet. So many of my deeper, personal concerns have been defined within these 18 minutes.
Thank you so much. We INFJ's are great encouragers on a positive levels but somehow we don't get a lot of encouragement in return... so we have to encourage ourselves sometimes.
I have been "dumbing" myself for others for years etc- but as soon as I try to learn, grow and put my opinions forward, others seem to not share.or be competitive with me is what I see and now I'm just genuinely more happier, more protective and discerning- growing, learning constantly is my happy place now ❤
This has been the story of my life. I have people who act like I am the best friend they've ever had when I hardly know them and then when I don't live up to that I am discarded or even hated. It has never changed and I have no idea how to change it. I'm just being me. In a way it leaves me lonely. On the other hand, I kinda like just being alone anyway. I just wish the encounter didn't end with me being "the bad guy".
Once again, you’re right on, Wenzel. The way I’ve phrased it it is that people start off making me a “god,” and then make me their “devil” when all I want to do is be MYSELF.
I have said early in relationships "don't put me on a pedestal it's a long way to fall" when someone start calling you "perfect" bc they are so at ease with you but after some time when things become more real & you mirror things they don't like it can become "I'm not perfect like you or i can't live up to your standards" they still want to be with you but they don't want to address issues to grow with the relationship.
This is the main reason I do not seek close friends anymore. In the inception of any relationship I knew how it would end; I knew they would end up hating me and try to undermine me. All I ever wanted was to help and lift up. I think at some point I would try to to offer suggestions in a nuanced way to help them see things about themselves that would benefit them and make them stronger but I believe they took it as a jab of judgment and would retaliate. I never meant any harm. If you care about someone, you try to help them become the best version of themselves. Not all people are like INFJs in that we never stop trying to improve and just assume everyone is like us. I never understood this at this level until now. Wenzes has wisdom beyond her years. This is a very insightful video.
Yes Wen. We know unconditionality. We don't hanker after reciprocation. This, actually, is really something bizarre to the non-infjs. So they tear us down. It's not our fault.
I'm amazed as I didn't even realise that it's an INFJ trait. Thank you so much for that; it's something I've always struggled with until recent years when I've come more into my own and stopped worrying what others think of me. Really cool to get more info about it. :)
This video is a 💎! Scary how we are all so similar! Ahh this has happened to me all ny life, for each of the reasons you mention in this video! I just....didn't notice the "why" before!
So true… I get this from my 2 sisters, and sometimes my mom joins in. Legit, my mom has said “Get off your pedestal” and I say “For what? Telling the truth?”
Sounds familiar! I was called a know-it-all when I was growing up and learned to keep my ideas to myself. I lived in my head too much and people never knew who I really was.
We'll anothe great subject. 67 YO INFJ-T 1w2 male. I was a computer analyst for 40 years with many different companies needless to say I learned a lot of things that along with other subjects that interest me. Here's the truth whenever I meet someone a friend or a potential spouse for the first time and we have a conversation they come to understand that I really do know what I am talking about and find that great. Then I tell them, Look you might like what I say now but after awhile you will not like it. and sure enough I will soon be called a know it all or an egotist or you think you know everything. I no longer get into conversations with other people and just sit there and play dumb even if I know that they are totally wrong. It's sad but the only way to keep my own piece of mind.
Jealousy. Just straight up, jealousy and insecurity. I liked this video even before I watched it. I have experienced this my whole life. Sidenote: This can also apply to high functioning autistic individuals (camouflaging/masking). Shout out to all the Autistic INFJs'.
Wow this has really hit home! Ive fallen off the pedestals and sometimes i feel never truly loved by a hand thats touched me, even mine! This time it was horrible....anotherinfj!
I want to add, that being liked for who you are. Truly, who you are. is. Well. It can feel like mission impossible. This difficulty lvl lends to the temptation of the infj going into their natural modes.
You continue to baffle me Wenzes with your explanations, all too relatable, smashing down years of trials and futile attempts with specialists, doctors and psychiatrists. Your reasonings were exactly as I explained them to each one of these professionals. Experiencing idolization/take down all too frequently, I thought was just counter active to being human and powerful. So, I now have become much more of a home body as a result, where it's safe. And btw....I've studied the Myers-Briggs personality types over the years, but what makes you so relatable at it is your ability to translate the psycho-babble by making it more accessible with the human experience. Or maybe it's the INFJ perspectives you weave into your idelologies that you just can't get from textbooks. Either/or....much appreciated.
Yea, it happens. Continuously over time. Jealousy and spite cause this in some people who can't achieve while we do it effortlessly. So, how to handle it? Just mind your own business and let these people continue as they are.
This is so spot on! I have experienced this many times, with romantic partners, and sadly, with both of my parents. 😮 I look forward to learning more in Bootcamp! ❤
I have been going to therapy over seemingly perfect relationships turned explosive - I cannot tell you how enlightening this was. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
I have a delusional stalker who thinks he knows me. I have protected myself and I'm not worried about him or his bs. He has serious issues and needs to be locked up in prison. He can't handle the truth that he is a predator of women and children online and deserves to be locked up.
A man did this to me online. I stalked him back and was able to find out info about where he lived &his family. As soon as I said 'Your 80 year old mother, Dora, and your wife, Joan, would be very disappointed to know you are threatening women online - then he left me alone. It's fine for them to stalk you but they don't like it when you do it back lol
I'm adding just one more voice in the choir of INFJs that absolutely recognize themselves in what you've described in this video. I've experienced this to a different degree, mostly lesser rather than larger in a lot of my relationships, and because the degree was lesser the relationships survived to this day. However, in one important romantic relationship I went through everything you described to the fullest extent and of course I got very hurt. It took me a long time first to figure out what was going on, second to cut all ties to that person (because he obviously wanted to go back to that beginning stage where he felt like finally he found someone who completely understands him) and third to heal. Great video
I've never felt so understood and transparent by a complete stranger. Thank you so much for your videos. If I ever have extra money for 1 on 1s you'll be hearing from me. Thank you
The first point is spot on. Validating others we have an interest in is what we do. Making someone feel seen is powerful, at first this is heady stuff. As interaction progresses , our “seeing” begins to chafe, as they feel scrutinized.
I feel whenever what is true is taken up we get hated but listen it is really super hatred appears there is no reason for hatred , imagine why should people hate the truth 🙃
It's called wickedness. Those that love wickedness hate truth. But beware. Those that love and practice it believe wickedness and hate ARE truth. To them, wickedness is their truth, and they love it with a bloody passion.
It is because the present system of education is not interested in teaching the fact that - all is lost when conduct is lost , this fact though lives in the conscience of every person so when any one is not according to the norms of today gets abandoned because it touches thier conscience on that point of good conduct.
I'd love for people to like me for who I am, but I've spent a great amount of my life making people feel good about themselves, and now I'm having the hardest time trying to change! Any tips on how to achieve this new mindset?
I have just come out of this exact thing to the point of needing therapy, which I have never done. The way you organize it all is so calming and gives simple clarity to the mess I find myself in. I was literally put on a pedestal to the point of feeling like a goddess, for two years, with big name experts in the field gathering to see what I would do with the gifts I have. All supposedly without me knowing. To me it was all very obvious, and it was almost comical the lengths they would go to keep me in the dark, and how obvious it all was. Your videos have been helpful through the whole journey in sticking to what I know and keeping it simple. Not letting myself be dragged down by all the junk whirling around me (unsuccessfully, I might add; Because my brain was ruminating to the point of implosion. Not until now did I realize how damaging that was being). My intuition and insights kept me one step ahead as I worked myself to the bone to solve and hone my craft. Not for them, but for me, my convictions, and to bless others. As soon as my knowledge of what was going on started to become evident, and careers were at stake (from his perspective, not mine. As I would never have done anything to hurt him or anyone else. Although I desperately wanted to be pulled into the circle, rather than feeling like I was living the Truman Show). and the only next step was to reveal everything by them or me, my teacher was doing everything he could to put me back in my place so it didn’t all fly apart. And when that didn’t work, I was simply dropped. I go over it again and again in my mind as to what I could have done differently. And I honestly don’t know. My teacher definitely had his own eccentric issues (grandiose narcissism? Definitely obsession. Schizophrenia?). And I feel it was better that I handled it the way I did because of that. At this point because everything so completely exploded physically, emotionally, and spiritually, I have been councilled not to pick it up again for at least a year, at risk of going back into the same vortex. That in and of itself is being devastating. So that is my book. I would actually love to connect in person to share insights and connect with what we seem to have in common. I really appreciate the simplified and straight to the point help you give.
Phenomenal. Thank you so very much. I'm finding your insights to be true in my work life, personal life... everywhere in my life. Thank you for helping me so beautifully.
I saw some red flags so I cut them off 6mo earlier than exspected. Boy where they extremely jealouse and tried Everything to punish me, But nothing works.. for them.
Thank you so much for opening up to us on your personal experience/one of the reasons your channel is here. your insights and guidance are so on point. Thanks for talking about a very hard, confusing topic that all infjs face. For me, so many times I've asked: "it's all good for (the other person) to be human. But it's not ok for me (the infj).
One consuming part of INFJ is that see through people that it gets burdensome and OCD type thoughts, but still cant do anything about those things as some flaws are part of package... but this creates problem what empaths have, loose yourself and forget yourself like in beginning of video described, which can trigger panic attacks and other problems if let go too deep.
There is a lot of talk about how good the INFJ is at adapting to others. For me, I thought it was because I learned to focus less on the actual words a person speaks and more about their tone, inflections, and other aspects of their speech to determine what they are really saying. When this is combined with other observations, it completes the context. The actual words are part of it, but they are the least reliable for me because I don't always hear those words they actually say. Too many times have I been humiliated or reprimanded because I simply didn't hear everything the person of authority said. Because of this, I always thought I was inferior to everyone else. There is a real, tangible condition that confirms this. The logic is straight-forward: I am physically inferior, which made me mentally inferior, so I am inferior overall. However, it becomes complicated when I see how I can do certain things so easily that others cannot - even when they are supposed to have more experience.
My recurrent experience has been that because I am so generous both materially and mentally (I love giving people presents and I wholeheartedly support them) I create high expectations in others. I always say I make narcissists out of normal, innocent people! 😅 I act like their parent. Then, if I fail to show up for them even once they get angry and resentful and take me down of the pedestal.
Also, sometimes when I listen I do just that. And I dont immidiately have something to say, because I am just taking things in. And I can't just pull out some of my own experience if I'm not relating to what is being said. And then, if you don't relate to what is being said, how can you communicate 'I understand and listen and see you' without doing some small confirmations or compliments? (well, I guess you could, you could just say "okay", etc. but that might make them feel rejected or not understood. And I think the overall difference between us and other (non sensitive) types is that we can so clearly feel what the other is feeling, so seeing other people in distress can be quite painful for us. Therefore we do this thing. Really, in order for us to uphold our boundaries we got to be okay to handle some distress in other people even though it is painfully obvious to us).
That's what happens when we live in a materialistic and capitalist society to the extreme. I welcome the Golden Age with open arms and I hope it will be in my lifetime.
The day will come. I can see it. We are currently at the zenith of communication technology. The one that decides the tradition for the forthcoming years.
When i was YOUNG i thought: if i give people what they wanted before they asked: they would let me go... it seemed like 'a economy' (i was 48 before this piss poor math actually equated to 'WHY would they let me GO?! if i had in my hand EXACTLY what they wanted BEFORE they asked' - it was a real, honest to God: duh?!¿MOMENT)
An INFJ would to a point unless it means one of the two having to give up goals and dreams, then it would be letting go and if it's meant to be love will find away but not at the expense of one or the other. An INFJ values their romantic interest wants, needs, and happiness and would probably not want to be the cause of compromising any of these.
SEX !! Talk about sex with INFJ please. That ability to create space to let people all the way in, if only briefly, makes for mind blowing sex. All of my partners have tried to get me back, I am the love of more than one life, even after they treated me terribly.
If we get pedestalised then it is their point of view not ours. I do not accept it so it is their projection not mine so it is not my problem wether I am pictured on a pedestal or not. Nor do I care nor am I interested in knowing who seem to see me in that manner and who don't. We all have opinions and it is fine with me. But don't waste our time with nonsense blabla or else go to a licensed professional. They will listen and get paid for it. Thank you for your consideration. Have a nice day!
What have your experiences been like as an INFJ when it comes to first being idolized...but then torn down?
My goodness!! this point of the hatred part ✨ i analyse if i bring light on the highest point of a statement then i am hated
Bad. Probally why I have no IRL friends.
Started with my alcoholic sadistic father and did not end up there.
The experience of hatred is difficult to understand. It's the worst season to be in.
You have tell people to f¥ck off❤
It's my experience that I fall from the pedestal (which I don't want to be on) because I start to show up more authentically in the relationship, with my faults and humanness, and they are then disappointed.
Yes - and I even say things like “take me off the pedestal - I will eventually fail you on some perceived level”. Yet - there they go. And yup, my authenticity does it every time.
@@FowlAnticsI remember the first time I told someone this. I've tried to manage perceptions and that doesn't work either! It turns out there's a pedestal for everything we do... everything except being authentic it seems.
It's when we start smelling their shit that is suppose to not stink.
I know this isn't the question you asked, Wenzes... I am so exhausted being an INFJ, sometimes.
I feel that soooo much lol
Emotional attachment?
I stopped being the bigger person and healed my overthinking I’m the process 😊
I've had to repetitively learn the hard way that people do not like feeling exposed even if you don't announce that you see what is going on.
Its like we wear mirrors for clothing 🤭
I get this A LOT! Many times other musicians or filmmakers I work with @ first think I'm great and want to do my songs, scripts, etc.... THEN they become INTIMIDATED by my enthusiasm, energy, focus, and talents, and then they start the sabotage process behind my back. This is why I only work alone now.
I think INFJs have a unique, humble but strong work ethic. I can definitely see how people could feel envy or intimidation from that!
@@desixdelilah😢
I’ve seen this happen too. My motto is collaboration not competition. Many others cannot find “value “ 💰 in our approach to the creative process.
I once heard:
"I hate when someone can just jump into a song and start improvising"
"What's wrong with that?"
"I don't know. It's just so annoying"
What the hell man???
His face even turned red.
I have heard similar stuff A LOT.
I now have two compact studios full of songs. I play EVERYTHING.
I never needed anyones recognision. I make the music just for me.
It would be nice to earn some money out of it though 😊
I am also infj who want do music maybe we can connect cause u work alone too
Most people are intimated by those that instead of competing with them, understand the only true competition is with oneself, and are therefore diminished within the other's impartiality.
as an older i have experienced the "hanging around long enough or too long and gradually becoming a villain in others eyes"
What a great quote: "Better to be disliked for who I AM than be liked for who I am not!"
This is what happened to me with my “best friend” of 10 years. I had started to have an opinion and be more vocal of my needs. She then started to shame me and became emotionally ab*sive towards me. I ended the relationship in April. This happens to me a lot and now I see why. Thank you for this video 🙏🏻
Whoa. The exact same thing just happened to me in August. A ten year “best friendship” ended after I started speaking up for my own needs, as well as expressing my observations openly (for example, she would mine information from me then pitch it as her own, and I called it out).
I’m at peace with the conclusion our relationship knowing she was just using me as an audience and energy source all along. One of the most revealing moments was when I realized how much I knew about her and how little she knew about me.
I do hope you are finding peace, as well. 🙏🏽
@@saganhuxley I’m so sorry to hear that 😔. We gave the relationship our all!! Looking back, I had played so many roles in her life and I was getting tired and drained by her. When I stopped doing some of the things I would and stopped putting her on a pedestal (1. Bc I realized it was one-sided and 2. She added nothing to my life but took from it), she started acting horribly towards me. So I’m thinking it wasn’t that she valued me as a person all along but what I provided and did for her. It hurts knowing that and feeling that I had to silence myself and dim myself down for the friendship to exist in the first place.
I have found so much peace in knowing I didn’t lose anything but time and energy. She lost a rare gem. I hope you find peace in knowing that you’re a rare gem who needs to be respected and loved as you are 🙏🏻❤️
Same, best friend of 10 yrs, relationship over for these reasons
Exactly 💯
I can relate to your experience. I "lost" a friend of 12 years. And spent the next 9 years with severe emotional trauma. I found a new friend who pulled me out of all this just by accepting me for who I am. I'm so thankful for his presence in my life 🙏
Thank you for sharing this information. You described my childhood to a tee. Yes, people liked me a lot but it was only because I reflected to them something that they wanted to see in themselves. Their feelings about me never had anything to do with me, and that is a horrible place to live. I'm noticing that more and more in my adulthood and I have little tolerance in dealing with it anymore. Agreed, better to be the person I am than to be the person others need me to be to make them feel good about themselves.
I completely relate! 💜
💯
What you said is the most freeing thing to learn: their feelings about you have nothing to do with you.
Both good and bad.
It's so easy to process that their good feelings are invalid, while their negative feelings seem warranted.
Often times the ability to see both sides of things is to our detriment.
I need noones approval , I'm my own person ,living my own life and being my true self. No longer dressing down around female friend's to make them feel better ,telling me my I'm not a woman etc, I've attached myself to some really low vibration people trying to help them. But no more. I'm not gonna downplay my feelings or truth. Im just gonna be more inclusive on who gets to sit at my Table.
I'm so grateful for finding this channel. For years I have tried to understand why bad situations have happened with certain people that I thought I had grown close to. The relief I feel from understanding these situations is humongous! I finally feel like I can let go of things that have been hurting for so long. Thank you so, so much! 💕
Me too ✨
Same here well said
I like your reply, a better and more detailed version of what I was trying to say in mine 😊
She's highly insightful. 💯✌️🙂
For years, especially when younger, I was definitely the smile and nod friend. I did whatever my friends wanted to do because I was also the "we can do whatever' friend. Self absorbed and bossy ppl can sense that trait a mile away. Nowadays once I sense they're trying to assert their dominance, something in my gut pings. Kinda like an unexpected deep itch. My energy completely shifts into "Im not gonna play these games with you". Of course, manipulative ppl will make it seem like your overreacting but if you don't nip it early on, theyll think youre the smile and nod kind.
The chickens are truly coming home to roost on this one with a co-worker struggling with her anxious attachment style, to put it diplomatically. Approaching this is harder than any break up I've been through in terms of my desire to leave her sense of self intact [she can spiral like no-one I've known] while holding firm boundaries as we still work very closely together. I feel as though this experience has eviscerated the Enabler in me. That cat has met its 10th death.
I can see when it is happening. I even had a dream that showed me it was happening behind my back. I dreamed I went to hang out with the group and the leader said "shorten him" . One guy said he had a knife; which I saw as a back stabbing done quietly. Thank you for your help Wenzes. I will remember that:
"It is better to be hated for being myself than be liked for being who I'm not" I feel bad that I used my "skills" decitfully but I forgive myself. God made me a certin way and allowed tragic things to happen to me and around me. I pray I can help others see Jesus' love with my inate and hard won talents in a mature way. You are helping many Wenzes. May God revael even more truth to you daily.
On a personal level, this video has been your most enlightening one yet. So many of my deeper, personal concerns have been defined within these 18 minutes.
I totally agree, this explains so much!!
Thank you so much. We INFJ's are great encouragers on a positive levels but somehow we don't get a lot of encouragement in return... so we have to encourage ourselves sometimes.
It is not us but their inner turmoil that they can not control
I have been "dumbing" myself for others for years etc- but as soon as I try to learn, grow and put my opinions forward, others seem to not share.or be competitive with me is what I see and now I'm just genuinely more happier, more protective and discerning- growing, learning constantly is my happy place now ❤
This happens to me for 38 years of my life. To the point I keep to myself. ALWAYS wondered WHY!
And/or ostracized from the outset when you’ve done nothing except reach out and be friendly
This has been the story of my life. I have people who act like I am the best friend they've ever had when I hardly know them and then when I don't live up to that I am discarded or even hated. It has never changed and I have no idea how to change it. I'm just being me. In a way it leaves me lonely. On the other hand, I kinda like just being alone anyway. I just wish the encounter didn't end with me being "the bad guy".
Wow goose bumps😮. You answered in 17 minutes what took me more than 50 years to recognize 😅
Once again, you’re right on, Wenzel. The way I’ve phrased it it is that people start off making me a “god,” and then make me their “devil” when all I want to do is be MYSELF.
I have said early in relationships "don't put me on a pedestal it's a long way to fall" when someone start calling you "perfect" bc they are so at ease with you but after some time when things become more real & you mirror things they don't like it can become "I'm not perfect like you or i can't live up to your standards" they still want to be with you but they don't want to address issues to grow with the relationship.
This is the main reason I do not seek close friends anymore. In the inception of any relationship I knew how it would end; I knew they would end up hating me and try to undermine me. All I ever wanted was to help and lift up. I think at some point I would try to to offer suggestions in a nuanced way to help them see things about themselves that would benefit them and make them stronger but I believe they took it as a jab of judgment and would retaliate. I never meant any harm. If you care about someone, you try to help them become the best version of themselves. Not all people are like INFJs in that we never stop trying to improve and just assume everyone is like us. I never understood this at this level until now. Wenzes has wisdom beyond her years. This is a very insightful video.
Yes Wen. We know unconditionality. We don't hanker after reciprocation. This, actually, is really something bizarre to the non-infjs. So they tear us down. It's not our fault.
I'm amazed as I didn't even realise that it's an INFJ trait. Thank you so much for that; it's something I've always struggled with until recent years when I've come more into my own and stopped worrying what others think of me. Really cool to get more info about it. :)
Thanks again WENZES
My resolve is
“It’s better to be feared than loved “ Because we play this games of being a mirror to others but we’re never met.
This video is a 💎!
Scary how we are all so similar!
Ahh this has happened to me all ny life, for each of the reasons you mention in this video! I just....didn't notice the "why" before!
So true… I get this from my 2 sisters, and sometimes my mom joins in. Legit, my mom has said “Get off your pedestal” and I say “For what? Telling the truth?”
Sounds familiar! I was called a know-it-all when I was growing up and learned to keep my ideas to myself. I lived in my head too much and people never knew who I really was.
We'll anothe great subject. 67 YO INFJ-T 1w2 male. I was a computer analyst for 40 years with many different companies needless to say I learned a lot of things that along with other subjects that interest me. Here's the truth whenever I meet someone a friend or a potential spouse for the first time and we have a conversation they come to understand that I really do know what I am talking about and find that great. Then I tell them, Look you might like what I say now but after awhile you will not like it. and sure enough I will soon be called a know it all or an egotist or you think you know everything. I no longer get into conversations with other people and just sit there and play dumb even if I know that they are totally wrong. It's sad but the only way to keep my own piece of mind.
Jealousy. Just straight up, jealousy and insecurity.
I liked this video even before I watched it.
I have experienced this my whole life.
Sidenote: This can also apply to high functioning autistic individuals (camouflaging/masking).
Shout out to all the Autistic INFJs'.
And ADHDs with autistic overlaps.
Wow this has really hit home! Ive fallen off the pedestals and sometimes i feel never truly loved by a hand thats touched me, even mine! This time it was horrible....anotherinfj!
I want to add, that being liked for who you are. Truly, who you are. is. Well. It can feel like mission impossible. This difficulty lvl lends to the temptation of the infj going into their natural modes.
Thats exactly it - I am always trying to prove to everyone that I'm a good person. It's exhausting. So maybe I should stop trying, lol
You continue to baffle me Wenzes with your explanations, all too relatable, smashing down years of trials and futile attempts with specialists, doctors and psychiatrists. Your reasonings were exactly as I explained them to each one of these professionals. Experiencing idolization/take down all too frequently, I thought was just counter active to being human and powerful. So, I now have become much more of a home body as a result, where it's safe.
And btw....I've studied the Myers-Briggs personality types over the years, but what makes you so relatable at it is your ability to translate the psycho-babble by making it more accessible with the human experience. Or maybe it's the INFJ perspectives you weave into your idelologies that you just can't get from textbooks. Either/or....much appreciated.
I believe now that we can put a name to this cycle, we’ll be able to put an end to it. Thanks for all you share!
I always show my true self now.
Yea, it happens. Continuously over time. Jealousy and spite cause this in some people who can't achieve while we do it effortlessly. So, how to handle it? Just mind your own business and let these people continue as they are.
This is so spot on! I have experienced this many times, with romantic partners, and sadly, with both of my parents. 😮 I look forward to learning more in Bootcamp! ❤
I have been going to therapy over seemingly perfect relationships turned explosive - I cannot tell you how enlightening this was. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
I have a delusional stalker who thinks he knows me. I have protected myself and I'm not worried about him or his bs. He has serious issues and needs to be locked up in prison. He can't handle the truth that he is a predator of women and children online and deserves to be locked up.
A man did this to me online. I stalked him back and was able to find out info about where he lived &his family. As soon as I said 'Your 80 year old mother, Dora, and your wife, Joan, would be very disappointed to know you are threatening women online - then he left me alone. It's fine for them to stalk you but they don't like it when you do it back lol
Very few channels promote good moral values and this is one of the best ones
15:03 - authenticity is perceived as dangerous. I can’t help anyone that doesn’t want it for themselves.
I'm adding just one more voice in the choir of INFJs that absolutely recognize themselves in what you've described in this video.
I've experienced this to a different degree, mostly lesser rather than larger in a lot of my relationships, and because the degree was lesser the relationships survived to this day. However, in one important romantic relationship I went through everything you described to the fullest extent and of course I got very hurt. It took me a long time first to figure out what was going on, second to cut all ties to that person (because he obviously wanted to go back to that beginning stage where he felt like finally he found someone who completely understands him) and third to heal.
Great video
It is a great consolation to find this channel✨🙌
I've never felt so understood and transparent by a complete stranger. Thank you so much for your videos. If I ever have extra money for 1 on 1s you'll be hearing from me. Thank you
The first point is spot on. Validating others we have an interest in is what we do. Making someone feel seen is powerful, at first this is heady stuff. As interaction progresses , our “seeing” begins to chafe, as they feel scrutinized.
I feel whenever what is true is taken up we get hated but listen it is really super hatred appears there is no reason for hatred , imagine why should people hate the truth 🙃
It's called wickedness. Those that love wickedness hate truth. But beware. Those that love and practice it believe wickedness and hate ARE truth. To them, wickedness is their truth, and they love it with a bloody passion.
@@noway905 I agree to what you say, also i want to add saying it is always worth standing for the truth
It is because the present system of education is not interested in teaching the fact that - all is lost when conduct is lost , this fact though lives in the conscience of every person so when any one is not according to the norms of today gets abandoned because it touches thier conscience on that point of good conduct.
I'll dim my light for somebody, but I don't give them access to the light switch
I'd love for people to like me for who I am, but I've spent a great amount of my life making people feel good about themselves, and now I'm having the hardest time trying to change! Any tips on how to achieve this new mindset?
Boy or boy, I’m in the middle of being torn down right now, and it came, for me, from out of left field.
This was so timely it's scary
Thank you as always dearest Wenzes!! ❤❤❤
For me, too!
We get torn down because we hold up a mirror to their faces, with good intent and without judgement, but they don't like what they see.
Bless this channel❤
I have just come out of this exact thing to the point of needing therapy, which I have never done. The way you organize it all is so calming and gives simple clarity to the mess I find myself in. I was literally put on a pedestal to the point of feeling like a goddess, for two years, with big name experts in the field gathering to see what I would do with the gifts I have. All supposedly without me knowing. To me it was all very obvious, and it was almost comical the lengths they would go to keep me in the dark, and how obvious it all was. Your videos have been helpful through the whole journey in sticking to what I know and keeping it simple. Not letting myself be dragged down by all the junk whirling around me (unsuccessfully, I might add; Because my brain was ruminating to the point of implosion. Not until now did I realize how damaging that was being). My intuition and insights kept me one step ahead as I worked myself to the bone to solve and hone my craft. Not for them, but for me, my convictions, and to bless others. As soon as my knowledge of what was going on started to become evident, and careers were at stake (from his perspective, not mine. As I would never have done anything to hurt him or anyone else. Although I desperately wanted to be pulled into the circle, rather than feeling like I was living the Truman Show). and the only next step was to reveal everything by them or me, my teacher was doing everything he could to put me back in my place so it didn’t all fly apart. And when that didn’t work, I was simply dropped. I go over it again and again in my mind as to what I could have done differently. And I honestly don’t know. My teacher definitely had his own eccentric issues (grandiose narcissism? Definitely obsession. Schizophrenia?). And I feel it was better that I handled it the way I did because of that. At this point because everything so completely exploded physically, emotionally, and spiritually, I have been councilled not to pick it up again for at least a year, at risk of going back into the same vortex. That in and of itself is being devastating. So that is my book. I would actually love to connect in person to share insights and connect with what we seem to have in common. I really appreciate the simplified and straight to the point help you give.
It's better to not be liked for who you are than liked for who you are not.😊
Phenomenal. Thank you so very much. I'm finding your insights to be true in my work life, personal life... everywhere in my life. Thank you for helping me so beautifully.
I resonate with this 100%! Well explained, this was very eye opening for me... Thank you!
I saw some red flags so I cut them off 6mo earlier than exspected. Boy where they extremely jealouse and tried Everything to punish me, But nothing works.. for them.
Too many times to describe. Starting to understand it is great!
My experience is that people like to dump on me and then leave. They have used me like a litter box. I don't allow that anymore.
Thank you so much for opening up to us on your personal experience/one of the reasons your channel is here. your insights and guidance are so on point. Thanks for talking about a very hard, confusing topic that all infjs face. For me, so many times I've asked: "it's all good for (the other person) to be human. But it's not ok for me (the infj).
One consuming part of INFJ is that see through people that it gets burdensome and OCD type thoughts, but still cant do anything about those things as some flaws are part of package... but this creates problem what empaths have, loose yourself and forget yourself like in beginning of video described, which can trigger panic attacks and other problems if let go too deep.
so interesting to be able to find people to communicate with! to understand, to be the better version of us! thanks life! big hug beautiful
This happens to me constantly, and it hurts every time.
very timely video, thank you
Thank you for creating this video
Exactly what I went through and I have had to overcome my personality and find my authentic truth.
This is so relatable, spot on.
I went through this recently . Then tried to over explain myself .
And they are out.. gang stalking and such.
There is a lot of talk about how good the INFJ is at adapting to others. For me, I thought it was because I learned to focus less on the actual words a person speaks and more about their tone, inflections, and other aspects of their speech to determine what they are really saying. When this is combined with other observations, it completes the context. The actual words are part of it, but they are the least reliable for me because I don't always hear those words they actually say. Too many times have I been humiliated or reprimanded because I simply didn't hear everything the person of authority said.
Because of this, I always thought I was inferior to everyone else. There is a real, tangible condition that confirms this. The logic is straight-forward: I am physically inferior, which made me mentally inferior, so I am inferior overall. However, it becomes complicated when I see how I can do certain things so easily that others cannot - even when they are supposed to have more experience.
Such accurate analysis! So well articulated! Thank you SO much, Wenzes! Be well!
Im done being that guy. It was a life experience.
❤ solid information …. Thank you Wenzes this helps so much! 🎉😊❤
amazing video
So helpful. It brings answers, focus and direction. Thank you from me - and I’m sure many others.
Move on…easier said than done❤
My recurrent experience has been that because I am so generous both materially and mentally (I love giving people presents and I wholeheartedly support them) I create high expectations in others. I always say I make narcissists out of normal, innocent people! 😅 I act like their parent. Then, if I fail to show up for them even once they get angry and resentful and take me down of the pedestal.
I have experienced that since my first relationship experience!
A good old time pleople peacer...:) are we... :).Its actually true what you tell here...had to laugh...Good to see it more clear...
How do you know exactly what is going on in my life?
What happens if we reverse this? Like then we look like were in a pit first, but where do we end up after that?
ya climb out and watch for arses kicking at your while you climb the walls. Same thing imho.
So if we add consent into the mix, does that change anything?
Oh now I remember... its an old bartender and host trick. That leads to returning customers...
Thank you
Also, sometimes when I listen I do just that. And I dont immidiately have something to say, because I am just taking things in. And I can't just pull out some of my own experience if I'm not relating to what is being said. And then, if you don't relate to what is being said, how can you communicate 'I understand and listen and see you' without doing some small confirmations or compliments? (well, I guess you could, you could just say "okay", etc. but that might make them feel rejected or not understood. And I think the overall difference between us and other (non sensitive) types is that we can so clearly feel what the other is feeling, so seeing other people in distress can be quite painful for us. Therefore we do this thing. Really, in order for us to uphold our boundaries we got to be okay to handle some distress in other people even though it is painfully obvious to us).
Queen 👸🏻
That's what happens when we live in a materialistic and capitalist society to the extreme. I welcome the Golden Age with open arms and I hope it will be in my lifetime.
The day will come. I can see it. We are currently at the zenith of communication technology. The one that decides the tradition for the forthcoming years.
When i was YOUNG i thought: if i give people what they wanted before they asked: they would let me go... it seemed like 'a economy' (i was 48 before this piss poor math actually equated to 'WHY would they let me GO?! if i had in my hand EXACTLY what they wanted BEFORE they asked' - it was a real, honest to God: duh?!¿MOMENT)
Awesome thank you
Mmm mmm, don't idolize me because I don't idolize nobody.
They're haters 😅
So true❤️
NOT ANY HARM, BUT UNBEARABLE PAIN!!
Mwahahahaa coff!!
I'll project the truth 😂❤ 1:50
I want to know what INFJ feel when they fall in love and that love reciprocated, but they can't be together. And would INFJ ever fight to be together?
An INFJ would to a point unless it means one of the two having to give up goals and dreams, then it would be letting go and if it's meant to be love will find away but not at the expense of one or the other.
An INFJ values their romantic interest wants, needs, and happiness and would probably not want to be the cause of compromising any of these.
WOOOOW. WOW. wow.
SEX !! Talk about sex with INFJ please. That ability to create space to let people all the way in, if only briefly, makes for mind blowing sex. All of my partners have tried to get me back, I am the love of more than one life, even after they treated me terribly.
If we get pedestalised then it is their point of view not ours.
I do not accept it so it is their projection not mine so it is not my problem wether I am pictured on a pedestal or not. Nor do I care nor am I interested in knowing who seem to see me in that manner and who don't.
We all have opinions and it is fine with me.
But don't waste our time with nonsense blabla or else go to a licensed professional. They will listen and get paid for it. Thank you for your consideration.
Have a nice day!
Sometimes I question if I am a true INFJ...
This sounds very familiar...and
I did the door slam
if I saw no way out
Thank you so much !
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