I prefer making my own hay. Buying from others has not been satisfactory. I bought a used 60 yr old New Holland baler that has been repaired and updated by the Amish--it works perfectly. I also have a small 3x3 Japanese made round baler that also works perfectly. I use a hay accumulater and grabber for the small bales. I will be putting up at least 1,000 small squares and about 150 round bales this year. I'm preparing for the drought which has already hit my area in Indiana. I don't plan to sell hay but use it exclusively for my flock of sheep. It gives me peace of mind knowing I have taken care of my flock. I am 80 years old.
God bless you Joyce! If you were local to me here in southern Indiana I would give you a hand, it’s amazing your 80 and still going at life head on! I’m 24 starting my own hay business this year down here near Bedford Indiana, wish you the best!
i am surprised the bales stayed in one piece , the weight of one of them would be not much more than 5 little bales I would think , that must have been a very old bailer that made them fine if it is but that is expensive for these bales I think
You forgot one important point! Those equipment break-downs (repairs) you mentioned will only happen in the middle of the field, farthest from the barn, in 100 degree heat with all your hay on the ground, while storm clouds are moving in. I am so glad you made this video. MY granddaddy used to say: "Make good beef or make good hay , don't try both"
One major math mistake is using the total cost of your equipment in the first year as if it’s your only year of hay making. The $14,000 would be amortized over, say, 7 years so your annual equipment cost is $2,000, not $14,000. Math works out massively different now. At $2500 a year you would be down to 65 bales a year. Not 300+ bales.
@karlsborgwi.jewell9919 In my area the opposite is happening. Farms are being bought by wealthy people who like the clear ground and couldn't care less about repairing dilapidated fence and stocking it. So they are haying it.
And when it's all said and done, you own the equipment. If you buy quality equipment and maintain it, it doesn't lose too much value. I bought a 40 series deere 20 years ago with 4500 hours for 6K. Today that tractor is at 9000 hours and I bet I could get my 6K out of it if not more.
My brother and I spent a bunch of time researching, talking to friends, and watching marketplace over about a year. We were able to get a square baler, mower and rake of less than a grand. We made just shy of 1000 bales last year with that equipment, and paid a guy $10 a bale for him to round bale about 40 bales to get us through winter. We did have a Farmall 560 and a 3901 Kubota that we already owned. Our big positive is we have access to land that people just need mowed to keep it from getting over grown. This year we bought a round baler for 4500 that’s in pretty good shape and a haybine $1000. Those 2 additions has been big and has helped us get over 100 4x5 rounds made already. I enjoy making hay and don’t really consider it work as it’s very different than the job I do everyday. That being said, I 100% understand what you mean. It’s a lot of work.
Chuck, I'm not sure if you have stacked hay standing up like that in the past, but I had an issue here in Maine stacking it that way. it drew moisture out of the ground and ruined not only the bottom bales, but up into the bales stacked on top. Now I stack them "laying down" and have not had any more issues. Obviously, the moisture can still move a bit into the bale, but it does not ruin the whole bale. I'd hate to see you lose $2k in hay. I did see you put a tarp down. If that has worked for you in the past, disregard my hard lesson learned. Best wishes. David
On end is about the only way we can get 2000 4x5 rounds in the 4-- 60x125 x 16 eve height sheds......We use Bilboard tarps on the bottom......Being in the South and 60 miles from the coast.....every once in awhile we lose about 3inches of the bottom bale on the outside row from blowing rain.....
We have found a way to keep the ground moisture out of our bales. We put down plastic then lime. We let the lime dry completely then put down another layer of plastic. I will say this though. If you had ground moisture getting into not only your bottom bales but all of the way up to the top bales that sounds like a ventilation problem.
When we first started in The Hay business..... We stacked along the edge of the field ........In 76 years There is very little hay I've seen a cow reject, a horse is a different story....... In 6 years we have had erected 5 125l ft long 60 ft wide, 20 high steel buildings, We use billboard tarps and stack on end......Most of our hay is re-baled into small squares bundled 21 bales loaded into 53ft van trailers and delivered to Contracted TSC stores in our area....
It's fun to see you evolving from year to year. You are definitely not afraid to admit failure and emediatly try something new. I enjoy following your channel. God bless to you and your family!
A GREAT show! I learned many years ago about making hay; I keep hay under the hoof, feed only when bad weather or drought. I get 4’ X 5’ for $50 a bale and I’m a good stacker
Great video. Someone already posted about storing on the ends and the danger of water wicking in the bail. Those bales looked really loose too. Hay is much cheaper in WV.
Your analytical mind is so spot on. Some peoples expertise is making hay. Your expertise is business side of farming. These best practices will make you very successful as it has. Touché Chuck on the Farm
Thanks for the video. I appreciate videos about the business aspects of farming. Calling it a scam is a clickbait title. It is just a bad business idea for some farms.
This is an ongoing argument I am always interested to hear peoples opinions. I am in South Australia with a small farm and I am a dedicated hay maker. I love the chase through the weather events, the chalanges of the seasons and exercising my judgment to acheive the fodder I need. I cut hay on shares with next door and also sell a bit. I love the fast moving machinery and I love owning it, It is a highlight in my year. But you make a lot of really good points and you have not included are the reduced stocking because of the area taken out of a grazing rotation during peak growth when you could use that growth to finish animals for market. The other point is by buying hay you are introducing nutrants someone else has paid for. Not only that there may be some trace elements that come from another district your land and animals are missing. So there you have a few thoughts from a dedicated hay maker that sees it from both sides. If you buy hay the biggest risk is introduction of weeds. It is important to know your supplier and their weed situation. Feed testing starts another whole debate, where you can truly get the $ value of the hay down to $ per energy unit per ton, and maybe get away from $ per bale.
You mentioned pasture rotation limiting your land, but I think another consideration is the money you can make off animal sales if you continue to dedicate your land to higher stocking rates, which would have a higher market rate than hay. I get your point. I learned something today.
It all depends on your personal situation and location. If you have a heavily stocked cow/calf operation and have neighbors or really close suppliers that know what they're doing, that's great! If you have spotty or low quality suppliers, you may be better off just buying steers in the spring, sell in the fall, and let the farm lay in the winter...
thousands of farmers would disagree 100%. I know almost no cattle farmers that dont make their own hay. I run 40 cows, put up all my own hay, farm 160 acres row crop and work a full time off the farm job. to each their own certainly, but to say you cant do both at a high level is rediculous
Great video! That’s something I actually didn’t take into consideration that just buying hay versus buying the equipment. Plus I think you under seller the time factor. Time is money. It’s all about what you prioritize. Well thought out video on different aspects of how and why.
I have 10+ acres of ungrazd horse pasture. Mix of Timothy and Orchard Grass. Last year a kid (20's) asked if he could hay our fields. I just need 50 small square bales (about 1 ton) for my horses and goat, he keeps the rest. 1st cutting this year he got 43 round bales. He's fertilizing, overseeding, and spraying the main pastures. The .75 acre area where my square bales come from is not sprayed. Everybody's happy so far. I told him if wasn't making any money to not do it. Last year, most of it was trash and he sold it as mushroom compost. I got tired of buying hay when I know my land can grow it. I just dont have the equipment or experience to do it myself. I'm super happy that I know EXACTLY what is being fed to our livestock. Now I just have to spread about a half ton of lime on my .75 acre patch this year and next year. It's been a cool dry year so far. Small square bales are going for $7-9 each here in Maryland. I've seen the 4x5 round bales going for up to $75 a roll.
Putting up one's own hay is kind of a prerequisite for cattle in my area. The cows get pushed onto the range during summer, so every farmable field can go to hay. Got to love long, hard winters.
One of our next-door neighbours is a hay farmer. Right now we buy from him and he delivers whenever we need it, even placing bales in our pastures for us! We're just starting out - only 2.5 years in now - on raw woodland, and clearing land to build and grow these pastures is a long process! However, we envision a time in the future when we will have more than enough fields going, at which point our idea is to trade a portion of the yields in exchange for cutting and baling for our personal needs with this haying neighbour 😊 Speaking of, a friend of ours has way more pasture than she has need of, so she will be hiring her local farmer to just cut and bale her fields for her. If you have the production, there's no need to invest in your own equipment if you have a local farmer who can come in and do the haying for you, and that will save you money :)
You have a good point. Each farmer needs to decide where to put his equipment dollars and time. We noticed that farmers in our community who put up their own cattle feed; 1) were off the charts busy in the summer, 2) were emotionally forced to feed inferior hay and grain when the rains hit at the wrong time, and, 3) overlooked animal care when working excessive hours putting up hay and grain so their animals did not thrive. The cost of cutting and bailing was the reason we never cut our third cutting as a child when we also had range animals. The cows could dig thru the snow on our standing hay and we did not need to throw away that time or the bailing twine for that cutting. Admittedly farmers who do not put up hay, can get caught in a price crunch those drought summers where prices go thru the roof.
Wait until you hit a drought. My Dad has been spending $140 a round bale since last summer. We had a big drought last summer in Texas but he also had to buy for the winter time. Lucky things have changed and no longer in a drought but it adds up quickly.
Foolishness. You can NEVER feed your way out of a drought. Those dollars spent buying hay in a drought to keep sub par animals alive will be gone FOREVER. You'll never recapture that misspent wealth. Besides, most people absolutely destroy or do long term damage to pasture as they try to keep that herd going as the grass dies. 90% of all cattle in 90% of all herds aren't "special". They should go to sale BEFORE your neighbors smarten up and flood the local sale barn. Save your money, your pastures and sell those animals. You'll be FAR ahead when rain returns AND you can buy better quality cows to start over.
You hit the nail on the head at the end there, it all depends on the context of the operation. I typically plan for using 300 tons of hay, and like to have 2 years worth on hand. I have the land, am fairly handy, and have all the haying equipment I would ever need for under $15k. I have ran the numbers, even with opportunity cost, and it wouldn't make sense for me to buy hay most years. For someone like you, that only needs a small amount of hay and doesn't have land set aside for hay, it would be silly to make your own hay.
My take: If you're only going to use 50-150 rolls of hay to get you through the Winter, you're right that buying equipment and making hay not making sense. The fact that you stacked the hay the way you did kind of shores up where you are with your farming. Not being mean, but you have to be small time farming (first time viewer, so I dont know). The down side of buying hay is that if it's a rough year for hay, you're really going to pay the price and the rolls that usually cost you about $40/ea could easily double in price. As someone that cut and sold hay for years, I loved people that bought hay. I really liked it on the years were hay was selling for 3x the usual. We cut hay and sold our excess and made enough money to pay for the equipment in 1 season. But we also had well over 1000 acres that we cut (spread out over 4 properties).
I used to work for a farm that supplied hay to a large number of local farms, mostly square bail and used for horses or specific purpose (cheese etc) dairy cattle. I have no idea how a farm could economically do square bails just for themselves UNLESS they owned 80+% of the equipment already for other purposes, and I say that knowing it's common practice. We had a staggering number of massive hay wagons, at least three tractors running simultaneously during harvest, conveyer belts fixed in at several of the storage sites, the massive storage barns themselves, on site fuel was a must of course, the bailers themselves are a work of mechanical art and therefore always broken, and the list goes on and on. There was far more equipment coordination and logistics involved than when we were putting up structures, and all for a crop that is bulky as hell and wants to spontaneously combust (!) if handled improperly. We had a very large horse farm at the root of the operation (40+ in winter), and even with that the hay season was when there would be broken equipment, injuries, no-show labor and every possible type of BS in general. Trust me, it takes a lot of BS to top what 40+ horses can get up to while bored and inside during the winter lol.
As a small thoroughbred breeder here in Oregon you never quite know what you`re going to see when you go out to the barn each day during wet winter months or what or who you`re going to wake up with! Horses are very smart! We have a couple of stallions who can open our garage doors with no outside handles faster than we can if we forget to have them locked on the inside! In our area mist property owners want a 1/3 , 2/3 cut of hay from their lands. The property owner gets 1/3 & the hay producer gets 2/3 . Equipment new or used is so HIGH in cost many farmers travel to the mid-west & haul back the equipment using their own trucks & trailers. Hay at our farm HAS to be kept off of ground & stored in a loft. Right now with our class II clay soils we have several inches of standing water everywhere. How much does lake Mead need? we could supply the lake with some acre feet of water. Labor here is at least $32.75 / hour. Hardly anyone that`s a small farm hires outside help including us! Have to mechanize as much as possible. Even at $4/ gallon for fuel tractors & trucks are cheaper to operate even though one operator has to do it all. Me at 68.
@@frederickbooth7970 Winter horse stories are the best stories lol. My personal all time favorite was a thoroughbred mare who would get especially annoyed at staying in during bad blizzard days. She picked me up (195lbs) gently by my jacket and pulled me up and into her stall window grain bucket just to get attention, twice. She blasted a cinderblock clean out of a well built wall after it was clear there'd be no outside one day, two 100% shots with her ears fully pinned. Her "herds" would drop bodies out in pasture too, coyotes, racoons, turkeys, a deer one time even. Best, most talented and motivated ride ever in that barn otoh, a total sweetheart to handle too. Just you know...never be boring, murder might be on the table lol.
LOL, I have $6,000 in my hay equipment that more than pays for itself every year by selling surplus bales. I learned long ago not to trust most custom balers as you should not trust the man that sold you 300 lb 4x4 bales for $40 each. You spent about twice as much per ton of hay as you could have from a reputable seller. Those bales have about $20 worth of hay in them and that is being generous.
Truthfully I couldn’t give that hay away you just bought!! Looks like stemy very corse hay. Cattle or horses wouldn’t eat that at all. Make good bedding in a blizzard about all.
After nearly 17 years of sharecropping I can tell you that I am sick of hay makers thinking that they can badger my elderly parents into giving them %100 of the hay crop. I'm ready to get rid of our livestock and move onto a small acreage. Some people really are hard hearted...
That is true in many cases but not in all. Land owners need to learn who to let use there land. Most of my hay land cost me nothing and the landowners are very happy because I not only take care of there land but improve it greatly with proper inputs. It cost me the first few years to do this but it pays down the road. Many fly by night hay guys are hay cutter and NOT hay growers. For this same reason I quickly built a loyal ciustomer base because of the quality of my hay.
That' there is some crappy looking hay. It looks like it's from the year before last. And I think his baler needs adjusting. They're very loose, can't weigh much.
Hope you can answer this please. If raising cows regeneratively is a symbiotic relationship between the cows and the pasture, then how can one grow hay regeneratively without cows? This seems to be a real problem for me when people speak about regenerative agriculture. Regenerative agriculture is supposed to be a closed system. You mentioned that your friend does not use any herbicides or pesticides, but then how does s/he grow hay without weeds? And where does the fertilizer come from? A closed system does not require any inputs (except sun, water and seeds). And what about soil nutrient constraints of the land. Assuming you had enough land or raised fewer animals, could you produce everything you need in a closed system? Is regenerative (closed system) agriculture real? Very confused. Thanks.
It takes 10lb N 3lb P and 1lb K every calf you "export" off your land. Not much when you consider the N comes from atmosphere. Haying takes more, you see it when guys rent fields and mow em year after year and dont put anything back. All that will grow is weeds, broomsage. The weeds can take and make nutrient from the soil and air that grass cannot. Eventually grasses would come back, takes a looong time. Maybe a grassland fire to burn up chaff and fix ph alittle. Take a rundown field like that and get your soil test, put down P and K and lime, frost seed a legume, overseed the grass you want and in 3 years it will perform again. Regenerative farming is just old-school depression era poverty farming. It is making due with nothing or very little. Even broomsage is a good feed if you graze or mow early enough. I personally wouldn't spray weeds. They make a wick that is much more selective, saves chemical. You mow or graze hard enough while giving what your soil sample calls for and weeds cant compete.
Im a dairy farmer. Used the same sized bales now for 40 plus years ( 4x4 ) to heck with the larger bales ! Your figures are close to the basic costs of equipment. I rotational grazed the milk cows. However...change just a few things.......everything changes ! Example. I built my own bale wrapper ( single bale wrapper ) and life totally changed ! Cut and bale hay the same day. No spoiled hay..... grow back is much faster ! No indoor storage needed. I cut 5 cutting of alfalfa grass per year. Now that I sold the dairy cows.... I have 40 acres to work with. 15 cows.....and the remaining I rotate to hay every few years. Much better pastures.....much better gain on calves ! Farmers are reluctant to open their minds....do things different ! Perfect example of that Mr. Glyphosate ( Greg Judy ) !! He cant adapt to change. Its his way.....or the highway ! But then....this is why he needs many " streams " of income from youtube........on and on and on ! Open the mind...experiment !
Two thoughts: 1. You need to amortize the equipment over a longer period (as in decades). 2. You are spot on that it is false economy to purchase land for hay as there is no ROI. The value of farm land is only in what you can make off of it. Right now IDK how any small/medium size farmer on a land loan can make ends meet as the OH is just too high.
my local hay farmers have gone up...average price 45 for a 4x5 round bale and highest 90 for a 4x5 round bale . Winter i have to feed a bale a day. I have to buy and bale. .....land cost more than hay
Did the hay thing in my younger years and enjoyed helping neighbors for a share. Now that I have my own farm we did it for a year or 2 then realized it was just easier for us to buy it! Getting too old to be killing ourselves in 100 degree heat trying to get all the hay in before the rains.
Even if you spread equipment cost over several years. Making your own hay is a break even project at the best here in southwest Va. also you have to have decent mechanical abilities to run older equipment because it will break down. In reality a lot of people just enjoy making hay is why they do it, me included.
I agree that unless you have a big operation and the hay ground, buying hay is more economical. BUT, there's a huge mistake in your math. Machinery is a capital expense spread out over several years, you don't budget the entire expense in one year. You'll never get a budget to work that way.
Out here we are at $170-180 a bale. I pretty sure we are paying more for whatever feed we can get for what you are paying for organic feed. It's unreal.
Really? 🤣 Try 64 acres of hay fields ... 1,300+ round bales per year with 200+ head of cattle on 304 acres that is a large percentage of woodland. Seeing how non-wrapped round bales cost $50+ or more. I'm looking at $65,000+ or more just to feed my cattle from late-Nov. to mid-April before they are turned back out on pasture in the spring. 60 rolls of 20" Favor Seal - $4,920 (+$1,000 in non-treated bale twine) 800 gallon of Offroad Diesel Fuel - $1,800 Equipment Maintenance - $
I make hayalge here in New England and always will, God willing, but you nailed it. For your situation you got it dicked. 40 bucks a bale for good hay, you have no available fields and you don't have the time to make it yourself. You are making the right choice for your situation for this precise moment in time, but as we all know, things change.
We spent $250.00 for our first baler and used it for 10 years. Then we bought a JD 24-T for $1000.00 that we LOVE and will keep it until death do us part. Bought our 4 wheel rake at a farm auction for $125.00 (First bid and only bid). We were given a shot JD 350 sickle bar mower and rebuilt it complete with non-clog guards for $850.00. Yes, if "new paint" is a priority, you're in trouble. But if you don't get in a hurry and shop around, hay equipment is VERY affordable.
No one I know cuts on 50%. Usually around my area the land owner gets 1/3 and the farmer gets 2/3rds. Like others said you can't take all that cost in one year it should be spread over several years. As long as you got a good supply of hay then nothing wrong with buying it. The issue with most people is not enough Hay around. I could sell every bale I make but keep most for my own livestock. People are always looking to buy hay.
if you don't have enough land that is different , but what happens that what you buy is not good , and them rolls of hay are the worst i have seen , one of them cannot be worth $40 / bale, how heavy are they ?, I do see your point but the kit to make hay is not costed over one year and you still have the value of the machine when it has been paid for , you may be luck to have someone you trust to get bales from but you never know what the grass is like to make the have has it gone past its best , has it had rain on it , what is the feed value of what you are buying , if its poor feed value you have to make it up with concentrates , there is argeuments for both but for me making you own is better and if you make more than you need you can sell some too
I know for a fact that it’s not cheaper to buy hay. 1000 ton of hay a year @ $250-$300/ton (first cut not including trucking) pays somebody a lot of money that would otherwise go towards equipment that you already need to have. For those who only hobby farm, it’s going to be cheaper, but if it’s the way you make a living, there’s no question that buying send your profit to someone else.
How many pairs could be running on those sacrifice hay fields. Say you have 200 acre field, getting 800 bales, or you can stock 75 more head of cattle. 75 calves @ 1500 a piece, I'll buy the hay.
To add to that what I just sent So thanks for the ride it did me a lot of good I'm not going to lie I'm smiling right now just by remembering those times Just to clarify how much I like Foreman I was on my way home from working construction all day I saw a farmer out in the field by himself baling hay I pulled over and went out there and helping the rest of the day It was like a mini vacation
Depends on how much land you have and how much you need. If you have alot of land and not many animals it may make sense to bale your own. If you have a smaller property and lots of animals you are better off buying.
I’d like to chime in. Stop relying on other people cut your hay at the most optimum time what I’m looking at, looks like loose bales of straw I’ve done both I had equipment then I sold it then I tried to rely on other people then I bought more equipment. The only thing that stopped me from doing and cutting hay was my health. Dammit, I miss it😢 God bless y’all have a nice day
You getting hay delivered for $40/roll? Round bales in the field is $75 + here, want it delivered your north of $100/roll. These prices are for a good hay season of multiple cuttings, if its a bad season for hay the prices get to $150+ roll.
People are going to argue with you but you are correct. I make thousands of bales and they are all presold to big cattle guys. You are also correct about land. I have had my land for 50 years. If I had to buy land hay would be out of the question.
Not trying to be negative, but that hay is not rolled just right an the quality isn't what I would call good hay down in Mississippi, but the area may be different up there
Do you put working capital into depreciating equipment or more cows who drop coupons (ie calf) on ground every year? By importing hay, you import nutrients to land. Attending a good grazing school would be money better spent than running in circles all summer trying to make hay.
unless your an equipment snob you can cut hay with a brush hog even without a side opening and not lose too much, even for round bales. I was forced to do this for a few years when I needed hay but couldn't afford a mower.
Good quality hay makes a huge difference, most hay for sale is not great quality and if you want your cattle to grow quickly and get good money for them you need better hay.
There is no way we could make our cows milk on the hay that is for sale locally. Its all rough hay. I think I could find maybe 2 suppliers that would be decent, but the price is high.
You've got some good points, but as far as $40 hay consider yourself fortunate, you won't get close to that price in my area of Texas. $100-$120 a roll.
I grow and bale hay to sell only. I would NEVER sell any crap looking hay like you bought. You are correct though, cheap for most small herd owners to buy hay by a long shot. Problem is most don't have storage aND DO NOT STOCK UP ON HAY. They then want to buy hay after people like me have sold out and have to settle for over priced crap hay.
Your figuring is fairly close. The time involved from the time you cut till bailing depends on how dry your hay is. In southern Indiana I do grass hay and on a normal cutting it’s about a four day process and I’m a one man show. Timing with the weather as you stated is a major key factor. I absolutely will not cut hay in front of forecasted rain. When you do you get caught every time. To me the worst thing is for cut hay to get rained on. Equipment is a very question 12:16 able as to cost. Meaning I bought a bar rake used when I first started it was fairly well gone paid five hundred for it did some repairs on it myself it lasted me eight years. Even fabricated a dolly wheel for the front. Disk mowers are expensive new or used to repair one your self is about five to six hundred dollars a pod unit not counting other parts and problems. Bailer are whatever you can stand to paid for. If your a good mechanic and can stand the down time buyer that four to six thousand dollar machine if not you you’ll need to step it up to well over ten to twenty thousand. Tractors are pure money pits sitting on the ground necessities for farming and all the manufacturers know this and take good advantage of it on both ends selling and parts and service. It sounds to me that you have made a very wise decision not to be a hay producer. This year due to weather my second cutting is no yield and very dry hay. First cutting was good yield and very long and drug out due to rainy weather. Hay production is not for everyone. Enjoyed your video
The cheapest way to buy hay equipment is from someone that's getting out of the hay business. The economics of this video is right on and all works fine as long as you have a dependable supplier. In farming you always need a backup plan.
As one who formerly worked as an accountant; Your equipment cost is slightly misleading. Yes, you might have to come up with the $14,000 cash flow to get the equipment or if you have good credit you might get it with 50% down. But unlike baling twine, unless it's some really sorry equipment, those machines are going to be back again next year. Therefore, on a true income statement, the purchase cost those machines should be amortized over five years. The one thing I think you touched on that isn't discussed enough on regenerative farming videos I've watched last year is the cost of land. I understand some of the Joe Shelton videos were originally shot on VHS tape 20 years ago. But tillable land has gone through the roof just like used car prices since 2020. I'm sure the Greg Judy type of rolling hills land has also gone up similarly. I could argue that it would be less of a negative cash flow issue to rent land and to hire out the working of the hay field than it would be to acquire enough acreage as to earn the same money with animals. I think it was a Greg Judy or one of followers of Greg's system in a video interviewing a guy in the Dixie South switching pigs from paddock to another that rented land can be had for $30 per acre or 68 thousandths of a penny per square foot. This is laughable since 1980 the midwestern croplands especially Ohio Indiana Illinois and Iowa. In fact, I read that some 2022 rental rates in Central Illinois for $400 per acre or 910 thousandths of a penny per square foot. BIG DIFFERENCE! Internet searching for cheap land in Missouri and Kentucky did not find anything close to $30 per acre rent. As far as I know, Joe Salatin and Pete from a few acres Farm inherited their lands. To me, this is probably the biggest step into going into farming: the blessing of not having to pay for land usage or land acquirement.
First, putting up hay can be very profitable IF you know what you're doing and produce a quality product, but it is work. In my experience, if you're not a resourceful fix-it person (that's me) it's going to be a much bigger struggle. Unless the newer equipment has become more reliable, hay equipment is notorious for breakdowns even if you're fortunate enough to be dealing with manicured fields. There are property owners who just want a field or a waterway mowed down and will let you harvest it for free, but the ground might be rough, contain garbage, rocks or sticks (all are hazards to your equipment) and the forage might contain weeds (some are toxic to livestock) or just not be of good nutritional value. So you have to know what you're doing and how to maintain your equipment as well as when to say "no thanks" to free options. If you have your own land there's ground work, seed costs, weed control, fertilizer and field maintenance for debris etc. to consider. If you seed alfalfa most plant with oats and so your first year will yield you an oat crop, a straw crop and an alfalfa crop. That seeding can produce well for 3-7 years. Machinery is a tax write-off spread across years and not a one year expense. You also have to be physically available to harvest your hay when it is at it's peak nutrition and the weather cooperates. Good luck with that although newer equipment has helped shorten the time your hay is down if the weather cooperates (it rarely does where I live). It has to be properly dried to bale or it'll mold or can spontaneously combust and burn your barn or field down. If you have a demanding off the farm job this schedule can be impossible to meet. It just isn't feasible for everyone to produce their own hay and there are many valid reasons to leave it to the pros even if you do have the land and resources.
Most won't buy used any more so they go get new. The monthly payment is enough to cover close to 100 bales a month. That's 1200 bales a year for 10 plus years. Everyone that gets into farming has to go get a new one ton and a couple trailers then hay equipment and wonder why they go broke
I don't have the land that I want yet but have been collecting the equipment for making hay. 1951 Ford 8N, New Holland 56 rake, Kuhn and Enorossi tedders, and a New Holland 268 small square baler.. All bought in various states of working and non-working order. Both Tedders are now 100% with fresh paint, all new tires, spare tines, bearings replaced and ready to ted hay. NH 56 rake is almost done, waiting on bearings and a mess load of new tines. Baler is a mess and needs a lot of parts replaced to get working right. And the Tractor is about 60% complete. Most of what I've bought has been at auctions and other than the tractor itself nothing was over a $1000 even with the repairs. The baler I have may end up being a parts baler for a better and fully functioning NH 268... I want to make my own hay simply because some 40 years ago some of my happiest memories are on my grandpas farm slinging hay and watermelons.. And there ain't no way I'm humping watermelons at my age.. 😂
I bale and sell small square bales. Before I started doing it myself, I sold my hay standing by the roll. Made very little money from it. Had a tractor and bought used equipment; then started baling the square bales. After 3 years, all equipment was paid for. Cut a couple more years then upgraded my mower. It’s almost paid for. U can come out ahead if you watch what you’re doing!!
I buy for my beef cattle mixed round bales there from big local dairy farm the rounds are great big almost twice as big as those for 60 bucks and it's the best I've bought unreal my dairy farm buddies know how to get down 2 business they were baleing today giant square bales pure alfalfa for there milk heard take care be safe from Miami County Ohio 👍
What it be better to get a Grant/ Loan from the USDA? I was told they can give you loan for your equipment, just trying to see if its an idea thought of?
You sound like our girls as teenagers when we told them to clean their rooms!! 😂😂😂 A cost benefit analysis should not prejudice for or against. You had me when you said, "We dont have time or land!!" No need to embelish either side of the argument. 😊
He does a good job of explaining how haying in his operation does work. Then he makes the cost argument make his decision look better than it really is.
If I were in your situation I would do just what you are doing. My farm requires a significant amount of hay so we look at which crop will pay back the most and how the rotation affects the farm. If hay is profitable I make lots if like this year there is cheap hay available I just purchase several semi loads. Saves an incredible amount of time that can be used to manage the herd, fix fence and do other necessary things. Everyone should take a look at how much their feed really costs. Just because you grow it yourself does not mean it will cost less.
Hey Chuck Great video. You said you still have an off farm job. Just wondering without specifics if you had to supplement income to your farm to keep it going or if it was stand alone. I hope to make the leap from town to farmer very very soon. Thanks
For you it makes sense for us western farmers that are paying upwards of $200 a ton. It’s not worth it nor does it make sense when we do our own hay we’re looking at a cost of about $65-$70 a bale versus bonnet for 200 so yeah for an average to smaller size farm. It makes sense.
This may make sense for small operations. I put up 2000 bales a year that's a lot of money. Also the sickle drive cutters are far more versatile and cheaper than disk
I'm farm raised. Both cattle and Hogs. So It made me think when I have My own Farm. I would raise Hay. No coes or Hogs. You don't have to Doctor Hay. It will not tear up a fence. You can have the Best fence in the world. And they will find a way to get out.
Not irritating me at all you’re 100% right and I make my living doing. Hey I have to be extremely careful to make any profit at all and with all the small hobbyist doing a thinking they want to get into it the profit at least for selling he’s completely out of the market. Even the highest priced hey that you’re seeing being sold 99% of the time is not profitable for the producer.
It makes it extremely difficult to make hay when you don’t have any hay making equipment….and it makes it almost impossible if you don’t have any land to grow any. Lol.
So what you’re saying is, if you don’t own any land or any equipment, it is cheaper to buy hay for a single year than it is to purchase land and equipment. OF COURSE IT IS! If you wanted to look at it over a 10+ year period which is more realistic. You need to look at the additional expenses of fuel cost and maintenance. But you’d also need to look at the expense that he will have in the invariable drought years. You also need to look at what you could sell the pieces of equipment for at the end of the 10 year period as well as the appreciation of the land. Do the work, and I think you’ll find a totally different result.
I prefer making my own hay. Buying from others has not been satisfactory. I bought a used 60 yr old New Holland baler that has been repaired and updated by the Amish--it works perfectly. I also have a small 3x3 Japanese made round baler that also works perfectly. I use a hay accumulater and grabber for the small bales. I will be putting up at least 1,000 small squares and about 150 round bales this year. I'm preparing for the drought which has already hit my area in Indiana. I don't plan to sell hay but use it exclusively for my flock of sheep. It gives me peace of mind knowing I have taken care of my flock. I am 80 years old.
God bless you Joyce! If you were local to me here in southern Indiana I would give you a hand, it’s amazing your 80 and still going at life head on! I’m 24 starting my own hay business this year down here near Bedford Indiana, wish you the best!
@@royaltydiesel6734....and she is kind of tech savvy too 😂
That’s the loosest round bales I’ve ever seen anyone spend hard earned money on. I hope it’s good quality
It depends upon the baker, older ones don't bale as tight and if the hay is a little green the bale loosens up when it cures out.
Those are really sloppy hay bales! This is 2024 and right now I'd give my right arm for some of those bales!!
For sure..
I was expecting it to fall apart when it landed.
i am surprised the bales stayed in one piece , the weight of one of them would be not much more than 5 little bales I would think , that must have been a very old bailer that made them fine if it is but that is expensive for these bales I think
You forgot one important point! Those equipment break-downs (repairs) you mentioned will only happen in the middle of the field, farthest from the barn, in 100 degree heat with all your hay on the ground, while storm clouds are moving in. I am so glad you made this video. MY granddaddy used to say: "Make good beef or make good hay , don't try both"
We did both feed 40 square bales a day in winter and sold a lot
True about the breakdowns,,but I gotten better with equipment,, bigger issues is weather
@@ironworkerfxr7105 You Got that Right BO
That's a good reason to have multiples, Tractors, Mowers, Tedders, Balers, Trucks Trailers, ETC
One major math mistake is using the total cost of your equipment in the first year as if it’s your only year of hay making. The $14,000 would be amortized over, say, 7 years so your annual equipment cost is $2,000, not $14,000. Math works out massively different now. At $2500 a year you would be down to 65 bales a year. Not 300+ bales.
And also don’t forget…..if more and more people decide to just buy their hay…the prices of hay will go way up
also you can use the purchase as a tax right off
@karlsborgwi.jewell9919 In my area the opposite is happening. Farms are being bought by wealthy people who like the clear ground and couldn't care less about repairing dilapidated fence and stocking it. So they are haying it.
@@ricksanchez7459 That is the story here in Middle Tn as well family farms are being sold for housing
And when it's all said and done, you own the equipment. If you buy quality equipment and maintain it, it doesn't lose too much value. I bought a 40 series deere 20 years ago with 4500 hours for 6K. Today that tractor is at 9000 hours and I bet I could get my 6K out of it if not more.
My brother and I spent a bunch of time researching, talking to friends, and watching marketplace over about a year. We were able to get a square baler, mower and rake of less than a grand. We made just shy of 1000 bales last year with that equipment, and paid a guy $10 a bale for him to round bale about 40 bales to get us through winter. We did have a Farmall 560 and a 3901 Kubota that we already owned. Our big positive is we have access to land that people just need mowed to keep it from getting over grown. This year we bought a round baler for 4500 that’s in pretty good shape and a haybine $1000. Those 2 additions has been big and has helped us get over 100 4x5 rounds made already. I enjoy making hay and don’t really consider it work as it’s very different than the job I do everyday. That being said, I 100% understand what you mean. It’s a lot of work.
Chuck, I'm not sure if you have stacked hay standing up like that in the past, but I had an issue here in Maine stacking it that way. it drew moisture out of the ground and ruined not only the bottom bales, but up into the bales stacked on top. Now I stack them "laying down" and have not had any more issues. Obviously, the moisture can still move a bit into the bale, but it does not ruin the whole bale. I'd hate to see you lose $2k in hay. I did see you put a tarp down. If that has worked for you in the past, disregard my hard lesson learned. Best wishes. David
On end is about the only way we can get 2000 4x5 rounds in the 4-- 60x125 x 16 eve height sheds......We use Bilboard tarps on the bottom......Being in the South and 60 miles from the coast.....every once in awhile we lose about 3inches of the bottom bale on the outside row from blowing rain.....
You are correct, always stack on the flat, not on the ends
We have found a way to keep the ground moisture out of our bales. We put down plastic then lime. We let the lime dry completely then put down another layer of plastic. I will say this though. If you had ground moisture getting into not only your bottom bales but all of the way up to the top bales that sounds like a ventilation problem.
When we first started in The Hay business..... We stacked along the edge of the field ........In 76 years There is very little hay I've seen a cow reject, a horse is a different story....... In 6 years we have had erected 5 125l ft long 60 ft wide, 20 high steel buildings, We use billboard tarps and stack on end......Most of our hay is re-baled into small squares bundled 21 bales loaded into 53ft van trailers and delivered to Contracted TSC stores in our area....
It's fun to see you evolving from year to year. You are definitely not afraid to admit failure and emediatly try something new. I enjoy following your channel. God bless to you and your family!
A GREAT show! I learned many years ago about making hay; I keep hay under the hoof, feed only when bad weather or drought. I get 4’ X 5’ for $50 a bale and I’m a good stacker
Great video. Someone already posted about storing on the ends and the danger of water wicking in the bail. Those bales looked really loose too. Hay is much cheaper in WV.
Your analytical mind is so spot on. Some peoples expertise is making hay. Your expertise is business side of farming. These best practices will make you very successful as it has. Touché Chuck on the Farm
Thanks for the video. I appreciate videos about the business aspects of farming. Calling it a scam is a clickbait title. It is just a bad business idea for some farms.
This is an ongoing argument I am always interested to hear peoples opinions. I am in South Australia with a small farm and I am a dedicated hay maker. I love the chase through the weather events, the chalanges of the seasons and exercising my judgment to acheive the fodder I need. I cut hay on shares with next door and also sell a bit. I love the fast moving machinery and I love owning it, It is a highlight in my year. But you make a lot of really good points and you have not included are the reduced stocking because of the area taken out of a grazing rotation during peak growth when you could use that growth to finish animals for market. The other point is by buying hay you are introducing nutrants someone else has paid for. Not only that there may be some trace elements that come from another district your land and animals are missing. So there you have a few thoughts from a dedicated hay maker that sees it from both sides. If you buy hay the biggest risk is introduction of weeds. It is important to know your supplier and their weed situation. Feed testing starts another whole debate, where you can truly get the $ value of the hay down to $ per energy unit per ton, and maybe get away from $ per bale.
Always best to walk your suppliers fields to see how the hay looks like before buying.
You mentioned pasture rotation limiting your land, but I think another consideration is the money you can make off animal sales if you continue to dedicate your land to higher stocking rates, which would have a higher market rate than hay. I get your point. I learned something today.
I am a 68 year old Iowa weak end farmer, like my Dad said,farming is an expensive hobby.
It all depends on your personal situation and location.
If you have a heavily stocked cow/calf operation and have neighbors or really close suppliers that know what they're doing, that's great! If you have spotty or low quality suppliers, you may be better off just buying steers in the spring, sell in the fall, and let the farm lay in the winter...
100% agree, you’re either a hay farmer or cattle farmer in my operation. Tried to do both.
thousands of farmers would disagree 100%. I know almost no cattle farmers that dont make their own hay. I run 40 cows, put up all my own hay, farm 160 acres row crop and work a full time off the farm job. to each their own certainly, but to say you cant do both at a high level is rediculous
I hard to make hay and be economical especially on a small scale. I believe you are correct most people would be better off buying their hsy.
Great video! That’s something I actually didn’t take into consideration that just buying hay versus buying the equipment. Plus I think you under seller the time factor. Time is money. It’s all about what you prioritize. Well thought out video on different aspects of how and why.
I have 10+ acres of ungrazd horse pasture. Mix of Timothy and Orchard Grass. Last year a kid (20's) asked if he could hay our fields. I just need 50 small square bales (about 1 ton) for my horses and goat, he keeps the rest. 1st cutting this year he got 43 round bales. He's fertilizing, overseeding, and spraying the main pastures. The .75 acre area where my square bales come from is not sprayed. Everybody's happy so far. I told him if wasn't making any money to not do it. Last year, most of it was trash and he sold it as mushroom compost. I got tired of buying hay when I know my land can grow it. I just dont have the equipment or experience to do it myself. I'm super happy that I know EXACTLY what is being fed to our livestock. Now I just have to spread about a half ton of lime on my .75 acre patch this year and next year. It's been a cool dry year so far. Small square bales are going for $7-9 each here in Maryland. I've seen the 4x5 round bales going for up to $75 a roll.
I say, do what works for you and your farm. ❤️
Precisely, just enjoy the content he shares or don’t.
Putting up one's own hay is kind of a prerequisite for cattle in my area. The cows get pushed onto the range during summer, so every farmable field can go to hay. Got to love long, hard winters.
One of our next-door neighbours is a hay farmer. Right now we buy from him and he delivers whenever we need it, even placing bales in our pastures for us! We're just starting out - only 2.5 years in now - on raw woodland, and clearing land to build and grow these pastures is a long process! However, we envision a time in the future when we will have more than enough fields going, at which point our idea is to trade a portion of the yields in exchange for cutting and baling for our personal needs with this haying neighbour 😊
Speaking of, a friend of ours has way more pasture than she has need of, so she will be hiring her local farmer to just cut and bale her fields for her. If you have the production, there's no need to invest in your own equipment if you have a local farmer who can come in and do the haying for you, and that will save you money :)
You have a good point. Each farmer needs to decide where to put his equipment dollars and time. We noticed that farmers in our community who put up their own cattle feed; 1) were off the charts busy in the summer, 2) were emotionally forced to feed inferior hay and grain when the rains hit at the wrong time, and, 3) overlooked animal care when working excessive hours putting up hay and grain so their animals did not thrive.
The cost of cutting and bailing was the reason we never cut our third cutting as a child when we also had range animals. The cows could dig thru the snow on our standing hay and we did not need to throw away that time or the bailing twine for that cutting. Admittedly farmers who do not put up hay, can get caught in a price crunch those drought summers where prices go thru the roof.
Wait until you hit a drought. My Dad has been spending $140 a round bale since last summer. We had a big drought last summer in Texas but he also had to buy for the winter time. Lucky things have changed and no longer in a drought but it adds up quickly.
Foolishness.
You can NEVER feed your way out of a drought. Those dollars spent buying hay in a drought to keep sub par animals alive will be gone FOREVER. You'll never recapture that misspent wealth.
Besides, most people absolutely destroy or do long term damage to pasture as they try to keep that herd going as the grass dies.
90% of all cattle in 90% of all herds aren't "special". They should go to sale BEFORE your neighbors smarten up and flood the local sale barn.
Save your money, your pastures and sell those animals. You'll be FAR ahead when rain returns AND you can buy better quality cows to start over.
Drought will be in your fields also, so you will still buy hay
You hit the nail on the head at the end there, it all depends on the context of the operation. I typically plan for using 300 tons of hay, and like to have 2 years worth on hand. I have the land, am fairly handy, and have all the haying equipment I would ever need for under $15k. I have ran the numbers, even with opportunity cost, and it wouldn't make sense for me to buy hay most years. For someone like you, that only needs a small amount of hay and doesn't have land set aside for hay, it would be silly to make your own hay.
My take: If you're only going to use 50-150 rolls of hay to get you through the Winter, you're right that buying equipment and making hay not making sense. The fact that you stacked the hay the way you did kind of shores up where you are with your farming. Not being mean, but you have to be small time farming (first time viewer, so I dont know).
The down side of buying hay is that if it's a rough year for hay, you're really going to pay the price and the rolls that usually cost you about $40/ea could easily double in price.
As someone that cut and sold hay for years, I loved people that bought hay. I really liked it on the years were hay was selling for 3x the usual.
We cut hay and sold our excess and made enough money to pay for the equipment in 1 season. But we also had well over 1000 acres that we cut (spread out over 4 properties).
I used to work for a farm that supplied hay to a large number of local farms, mostly square bail and used for horses or specific purpose (cheese etc) dairy cattle. I have no idea how a farm could economically do square bails just for themselves UNLESS they owned 80+% of the equipment already for other purposes, and I say that knowing it's common practice. We had a staggering number of massive hay wagons, at least three tractors running simultaneously during harvest, conveyer belts fixed in at several of the storage sites, the massive storage barns themselves, on site fuel was a must of course, the bailers themselves are a work of mechanical art and therefore always broken, and the list goes on and on. There was far more equipment coordination and logistics involved than when we were putting up structures, and all for a crop that is bulky as hell and wants to spontaneously combust (!) if handled improperly.
We had a very large horse farm at the root of the operation (40+ in winter), and even with that the hay season was when there would be broken equipment, injuries, no-show labor and every possible type of BS in general. Trust me, it takes a lot of BS to top what 40+ horses can get up to while bored and inside during the winter lol.
As a small thoroughbred breeder here in Oregon you never quite know what you`re going to see when you go out to the barn each day during wet winter months or what or who you`re going to wake up with! Horses are very smart! We have a couple of stallions who can open our garage doors with no outside handles faster than we can if we forget to have them locked on the inside! In our area mist property owners want a 1/3 , 2/3 cut of hay from their lands. The property owner gets 1/3 & the hay producer gets 2/3 . Equipment new or used is so HIGH in cost many farmers travel to the mid-west & haul back the equipment using their own trucks & trailers. Hay at our farm HAS to be kept off of ground & stored in a loft. Right now with our class II clay soils we have several inches of standing water everywhere. How much does lake Mead need? we could supply the lake with some acre feet of water. Labor here is at least $32.75 / hour. Hardly anyone that`s a small farm hires outside help including us! Have to mechanize as much as possible. Even at $4/ gallon for fuel tractors & trucks are cheaper to operate even though one operator has to do it all. Me at 68.
@@frederickbooth7970 Winter horse stories are the best stories lol. My personal all time favorite was a thoroughbred mare who would get especially annoyed at staying in during bad blizzard days. She picked me up (195lbs) gently by my jacket and pulled me up and into her stall window grain bucket just to get attention, twice. She blasted a cinderblock clean out of a well built wall after it was clear there'd be no outside one day, two 100% shots with her ears fully pinned. Her "herds" would drop bodies out in pasture too, coyotes, racoons, turkeys, a deer one time even. Best, most talented and motivated ride ever in that barn otoh, a total sweetheart to handle too. Just you know...never be boring, murder might be on the table lol.
LOL, I have $6,000 in my hay equipment that more than pays for itself every year by selling surplus bales. I learned long ago not to trust most custom balers as you should not trust the man that sold you 300 lb 4x4 bales for $40 each. You spent about twice as much per ton of hay as you could have from a reputable seller. Those bales have about $20 worth of hay in them and that is being generous.
Truthfully I couldn’t give that hay away you just bought!! Looks like stemy very corse hay. Cattle or horses wouldn’t eat that at all. Make good bedding in a blizzard about all.
Totally agree with you. We do the same thing you are doing, buying hay at hay auction or our neighbors.
After nearly 17 years of sharecropping I can tell you that I am sick of hay makers thinking that they can badger my elderly parents into giving them %100 of the hay crop. I'm ready to get rid of our livestock and move onto a small acreage. Some people really are hard hearted...
I've seen guys mow leased or sweetheart deal fields until they won't make hay anymore, just broomsage. Then no one wants to mow it.
That is true in many cases but not in all. Land owners need to learn who to let use there land. Most of my hay land cost me nothing and the landowners are very happy because I not only take care of there land but improve it greatly with proper inputs. It cost me the first few years to do this but it pays down the road. Many fly by night hay guys are hay cutter and NOT hay growers. For this same reason I quickly built a loyal ciustomer base because of the quality of my hay.
I love all your posts, so informative
Buy your stockers in spring , process them in lthe fall , don’t feed hay unless it’s bad drought
Buy high sell low
That' there is some crappy looking hay. It looks like it's from the year before last. And I think his baler needs adjusting. They're very loose, can't weigh much.
You sir make sense.
Here is my subscription .
Keep Smilin!!!!
Hope you can answer this please. If raising cows regeneratively is a symbiotic relationship between the cows and the pasture, then how can one grow hay regeneratively without cows? This seems to be a real problem for me when people speak about regenerative agriculture. Regenerative agriculture is supposed to be a closed system. You mentioned that your friend does not use any herbicides or pesticides, but then how does s/he grow hay without weeds? And where does the fertilizer come from? A closed system does not require any inputs (except sun, water and seeds). And what about soil nutrient constraints of the land. Assuming you had enough land or raised fewer animals, could you produce everything you need in a closed system? Is regenerative (closed system) agriculture real? Very confused. Thanks.
It takes 10lb N 3lb P and 1lb K every calf you "export" off your land. Not much when you consider the N comes from atmosphere. Haying takes more, you see it when guys rent fields and mow em year after year and dont put anything back. All that will grow is weeds, broomsage. The weeds can take and make nutrient from the soil and air that grass cannot. Eventually grasses would come back, takes a looong time. Maybe a grassland fire to burn up chaff and fix ph alittle. Take a rundown field like that and get your soil test, put down P and K and lime, frost seed a legume, overseed the grass you want and in 3 years it will perform again. Regenerative farming is just old-school depression era poverty farming. It is making due with nothing or very little. Even broomsage is a good feed if you graze or mow early enough. I personally wouldn't spray weeds. They make a wick that is much more selective, saves chemical. You mow or graze hard enough while giving what your soil sample calls for and weeds cant compete.
Im a dairy farmer. Used the same sized bales now for 40 plus years ( 4x4 ) to heck with the larger bales ! Your figures are close to the basic costs of equipment. I rotational grazed the milk cows. However...change just a few things.......everything changes ! Example. I built my own bale wrapper ( single bale wrapper ) and life totally changed ! Cut and bale hay the same day. No spoiled hay..... grow back is much faster ! No indoor storage needed. I cut 5 cutting of alfalfa grass per year. Now that I sold the dairy cows.... I have 40 acres to work with. 15 cows.....and the remaining I rotate to hay every few years. Much better pastures.....much better gain on calves ! Farmers are reluctant to open their minds....do things different ! Perfect example of that Mr. Glyphosate ( Greg Judy ) !! He cant adapt to change. Its his way.....or the highway ! But then....this is why he needs many " streams " of income from youtube........on and on and on !
Open the mind...experiment !
Two thoughts: 1. You need to amortize the equipment over a longer period (as in decades). 2. You are spot on that it is false economy to purchase land for hay as there is no ROI. The value of farm land is only in what you can make off of it. Right now IDK how any small/medium size farmer on a land loan can make ends meet as the OH is just too high.
my local hay farmers have gone up...average price 45 for a 4x5 round bale and highest 90 for a 4x5 round bale . Winter i have to feed a bale a day. I have to buy and bale. .....land cost more than hay
That is some crapy looking bails of hay. I sure hope you got them dirt cheap. They can’t be very heavy.
Did the hay thing in my younger years and enjoyed helping neighbors for a share. Now that I have my own farm we did it for a year or 2 then realized it was just easier for us to buy it! Getting too old to be killing ourselves in 100 degree heat trying to get all the hay in before the rains.
Yep!!!
Even if you spread equipment cost over several years. Making your own hay is a break even project at the best here in southwest Va. also you have to have decent mechanical abilities to run older equipment because it will break down. In reality a lot of people just enjoy making hay is why they do it, me included.
I agree that unless you have a big operation and the hay ground, buying hay is more economical. BUT, there's a huge mistake in your math. Machinery is a capital expense spread out over several years, you don't budget the entire expense in one year. You'll never get a budget to work that way.
Out here we are at $170-180 a bale. I pretty sure we are paying more for whatever feed we can get for what you are paying for organic feed. It's unreal.
Really? 🤣
Try 64 acres of hay fields ... 1,300+ round bales per year with 200+ head of cattle on 304 acres that is a large percentage of woodland.
Seeing how non-wrapped round bales cost $50+ or more. I'm looking at $65,000+ or more just to feed my cattle from late-Nov. to mid-April before they are turned back out on pasture in the spring.
60 rolls of 20" Favor Seal - $4,920 (+$1,000 in non-treated bale twine)
800 gallon of Offroad Diesel Fuel - $1,800
Equipment Maintenance - $
glad someone here is using common sense!!
I make hayalge here in New England and always will, God willing, but you nailed it. For your situation you got it dicked. 40 bucks a bale for good hay, you have no available fields and you don't have the time to make it yourself. You are making the right choice for your situation for this precise moment in time, but as we all know, things change.
We spent $250.00 for our first baler and used it for 10 years. Then we bought a JD 24-T for $1000.00 that we LOVE and will keep it until death do us part.
Bought our 4 wheel rake at a farm auction for $125.00 (First bid and only bid). We were given a shot JD 350 sickle bar mower and rebuilt it complete with non-clog guards for $850.00.
Yes, if "new paint" is a priority, you're in trouble. But if you don't get in a hurry and shop around, hay equipment is VERY affordable.
$110 to 140 /4x5 Dallas, Tx area
Lots of money and work goes into making bales of hay for sure! Been wondering last couple of years if it's worth it but I keep doing it.
No one I know cuts on 50%. Usually around my area the land owner gets 1/3 and the farmer gets 2/3rds. Like others said you can't take all that cost in one year it should be spread over several years. As long as you got a good supply of hay then nothing wrong with buying it. The issue with most people is not enough Hay around. I could sell every bale I make but keep most for my own livestock. People are always looking to buy hay.
if you don't have enough land that is different , but what happens that what you buy is not good , and them rolls of hay are the worst i have seen , one of them cannot be worth $40 / bale, how heavy are they ?, I do see your point but the kit to make hay is not costed over one year and you still have the value of the machine when it has been paid for , you may be luck to have someone you trust to get bales from but you never know what the grass is like to make the have has it gone past its best , has it had rain on it , what is the feed value of what you are buying , if its poor feed value you have to make it up with concentrates , there is argeuments for both but for me making you own is better and if you make more than you need you can sell some too
You forgot a tedder - that’ll add at least a couple grand.
I know for a fact that it’s not cheaper to buy hay. 1000 ton of hay a year @ $250-$300/ton (first cut not including trucking) pays somebody a lot of money that would otherwise go towards equipment that you already need to have. For those who only hobby farm, it’s going to be cheaper, but if it’s the way you make a living, there’s no question that buying send your profit to someone else.
How many pairs could be running on those sacrifice hay fields. Say you have 200 acre field, getting 800 bales, or you can stock 75 more head of cattle. 75 calves @ 1500 a piece, I'll buy the hay.
To add to that what I just sent
So thanks for the ride it did me a lot of good I'm not going to lie I'm smiling right now just by remembering those times
Just to clarify how much I like Foreman
I was on my way home from working construction all day I saw a farmer out in the field by himself baling hay
I pulled over and went out there and helping the rest of the day
It was like a mini vacation
Depends on how much land you have and how much you need. If you have alot of land and not many animals it may make sense to bale your own. If you have a smaller property and lots of animals you are better off buying.
I’d like to chime in. Stop relying on other people cut your hay at the most optimum time what I’m looking at, looks like loose bales of straw I’ve done both I had equipment then I sold it then I tried to rely on other people then I bought more equipment. The only thing that stopped me from doing and cutting hay was my health.
Dammit, I miss it😢
God bless y’all have a nice day
You getting hay delivered for $40/roll? Round bales in the field is $75 + here, want it delivered your north of $100/roll. These prices are for a good hay season of multiple cuttings, if its a bad season for hay the prices get to $150+ roll.
People are going to argue with you but you are correct. I make thousands of bales and they are all presold to big cattle guys. You are also correct about land. I have had my land for 50 years. If I had to buy land hay would be out of the question.
Not trying to be negative, but that hay is not rolled just right an the quality isn't what I would call good hay down in Mississippi, but the area may be different up there
Do you put working capital into depreciating equipment or more cows who drop coupons (ie calf) on ground every year? By importing hay, you import nutrients to land. Attending a good grazing school would be money better spent than running in circles all summer trying to make hay.
unless your an equipment snob you can cut hay with a brush hog even without a side opening and not lose too much, even for round bales. I was forced to do this for a few years when I needed hay but couldn't afford a mower.
Good quality hay makes a huge difference, most hay for sale is not great quality and if you want your cattle to grow quickly and get good money for them you need better hay.
There is no way we could make our cows milk on the hay that is for sale locally. Its all rough hay. I think I could find maybe 2 suppliers that would be decent, but the price is high.
You forgot to add the hay tedder in your machinery list, it takes you in most cases three days to get it up.
You've got some good points, but as far as $40 hay consider yourself fortunate, you won't get close to that price in my area of Texas. $100-$120 a roll.
Keep up the excellent work. You'll be a pretty good farmer/ rancher some day!
I grow and bale hay to sell only. I would NEVER sell any crap looking hay like you bought. You are correct though, cheap for most small herd owners to buy hay by a long shot. Problem is most don't have storage aND DO NOT STOCK UP ON HAY. They then want to buy hay after people like me have sold out and have to settle for over priced crap hay.
Where in the world do you get paid $30 an hour to cut grass ?
That’s the minimum my time is worth.
I hear you brother Chuck. Very well explaned..😃👍
Your figuring is fairly close. The time involved from the time you cut till bailing depends on how dry your hay is. In southern Indiana I do grass hay and on a normal cutting it’s about a four day process and I’m a one man show. Timing with the weather as you stated is a major key factor. I absolutely will not cut hay in front of forecasted rain. When you do you get caught every time. To me the worst thing is for cut hay to get rained on. Equipment is a very question 12:16 able as to cost. Meaning I bought a bar rake used when I first started it was fairly well gone paid five hundred for it did some repairs on it myself it lasted me eight years. Even fabricated a dolly wheel for the front. Disk mowers are expensive new or used to repair one your self is about five to six hundred dollars a pod unit not counting other parts and problems. Bailer are whatever you can stand to paid for. If your a good mechanic and can stand the down time buyer that four to six thousand dollar machine if not you you’ll need to step it up to well over ten to twenty thousand. Tractors are pure money pits sitting on the ground necessities for farming and all the manufacturers know this and take good advantage of it on both ends selling and parts and service. It sounds to me that you have made a very wise decision not to be a hay producer. This year due to weather my second cutting is no yield and very dry hay. First cutting was good yield and very long and drug out due to rainy weather. Hay production is not for everyone. Enjoyed your video
The cheapest way to buy hay equipment is from someone that's getting out of the hay business.
The economics of this video is right on and all works fine as long as you have a dependable supplier.
In farming you always need a backup plan.
As one who formerly worked as an accountant;
Your equipment cost is slightly misleading.
Yes, you might have to come up with the $14,000 cash flow to get the equipment or if you have good credit you might get it with 50% down.
But unlike baling twine, unless it's some really sorry equipment, those machines are going to be back again next year. Therefore, on a true income statement, the purchase cost those machines should be amortized over five years.
The one thing I think you touched on that isn't discussed enough on regenerative farming videos I've watched last year is the cost of land.
I understand some of the Joe Shelton videos were originally shot on VHS tape 20 years ago. But tillable land has gone through the roof just like used car prices since 2020. I'm sure the Greg Judy type of rolling hills land has also gone up similarly.
I could argue that it would be less of a negative cash flow issue to rent land and to hire out the working of the hay field than it would be to acquire enough acreage as to earn the same money with animals.
I think it was a Greg Judy or one of followers of Greg's system in a video interviewing a guy in the Dixie South switching pigs from paddock to another that rented land can be had for $30 per acre or 68 thousandths of a penny per square foot.
This is laughable since 1980 the midwestern croplands especially Ohio Indiana Illinois and Iowa. In fact, I read that some 2022 rental rates in Central Illinois for $400 per acre or 910 thousandths of a penny per square foot. BIG DIFFERENCE!
Internet searching for cheap land in Missouri and Kentucky did not find anything close to $30 per acre rent.
As far as I know, Joe Salatin and Pete from a few acres Farm inherited their lands. To me, this is probably the biggest step into going into farming: the blessing of not having to pay for land usage or land acquirement.
Almost every farmer inherited their land. The saying, thank God for the first 4 generations of farmers because without them we wouldn't have a 5th.
In my area irrigated ground goes for $150/ acre & non-irrigated ground goes for $50. acre . Usually with a multi- year lease time period.
Coming back on here:. Last month I saw in a newspaper that cropland in Central Illinois sold for $16,000 per acre.
Forage crops play an important role in my crop rotation. I do hire out my hay work, because that costs less than making payments on equipment.
First, putting up hay can be very profitable IF you know what you're doing and produce a quality product, but it is work. In my experience, if you're not a resourceful fix-it person (that's me) it's going to be a much bigger struggle. Unless the newer equipment has become more reliable, hay equipment is notorious for breakdowns even if you're fortunate enough to be dealing with manicured fields. There are property owners who just want a field or a waterway mowed down and will let you harvest it for free, but the ground might be rough, contain garbage, rocks or sticks (all are hazards to your equipment) and the forage might contain weeds (some are toxic to livestock) or just not be of good nutritional value. So you have to know what you're doing and how to maintain your equipment as well as when to say "no thanks" to free options. If you have your own land there's ground work, seed costs, weed control, fertilizer and field maintenance for debris etc. to consider. If you seed alfalfa most plant with oats and so your first year will yield you an oat crop, a straw crop and an alfalfa crop. That seeding can produce well for 3-7 years. Machinery is a tax write-off spread across years and not a one year expense. You also have to be physically available to harvest your hay when it is at it's peak nutrition and the weather cooperates. Good luck with that although newer equipment has helped shorten the time your hay is down if the weather cooperates (it rarely does where I live). It has to be properly dried to bale or it'll mold or can spontaneously combust and burn your barn or field down. If you have a demanding off the farm job this schedule can be impossible to meet. It just isn't feasible for everyone to produce their own hay and there are many valid reasons to leave it to the pros even if you do have the land and resources.
Most won't buy used any more so they go get new. The monthly payment is enough to cover close to 100 bales a month. That's 1200 bales a year for 10 plus years. Everyone that gets into farming has to go get a new one ton and a couple trailers then hay equipment and wonder why they go broke
And it's still impossible to find used equipment for a decent price.
Yes, but if you buy equipment you are not going to use it for one cutting.
Why stack the bales upright? I know nothing about hay, but it seems harder to move it again that way.
Bay up here if you can get it is about 150 bucks a bale
I don't have the land that I want yet but have been collecting the equipment for making hay. 1951 Ford 8N, New Holland 56 rake, Kuhn and Enorossi tedders, and a New Holland 268 small square baler.. All bought in various states of working and non-working order. Both Tedders are now 100% with fresh paint, all new tires, spare tines, bearings replaced and ready to ted hay. NH 56 rake is almost done, waiting on bearings and a mess load of new tines. Baler is a mess and needs a lot of parts replaced to get working right. And the Tractor is about 60% complete. Most of what I've bought has been at auctions and other than the tractor itself nothing was over a $1000 even with the repairs. The baler I have may end up being a parts baler for a better and fully functioning NH 268... I want to make my own hay simply because some 40 years ago some of my happiest memories are on my grandpas farm slinging hay and watermelons.. And there ain't no way I'm humping watermelons at my age.. 😂
The first time you buy second cutting alfalfa and it turns out to be ditch hay full of beer cans and walmart bags. I bale my own now!
I bale and sell small square bales. Before I started doing it myself, I sold my hay standing by the roll. Made very little money from it. Had a tractor and bought used equipment; then started baling the square bales. After 3 years, all equipment was paid for. Cut a couple more years then upgraded my mower. It’s almost paid for. U can come out ahead if you watch what you’re doing!!
So true I buy 4x5 for $45. So let’s just say I do 20 a year it’ll take 15 years to pay off the equipment. Totally not worth it.
Hope those bales were cheap. Never seen bales soft enough to stab with pallet forks before...😂
I had a bale spear on the tractor.
Not worth1$ a bale
😂😂😂
U r wrong buying....
Unless you're paying less than what it cost you to make the bale.
Do you plan to ruin/trash equipment the first year?
3 cuttings a year, over 10 years is more realistic way to check your cost for equipment
You are 100% on what you're saying I quit doing hay it is definitely cheaper to buy it
I buy for my beef cattle mixed round bales there from big local dairy farm the rounds are great big almost twice as big as those for 60 bucks and it's the best I've bought unreal my dairy farm buddies know how to get down 2 business they were baleing today giant square bales pure alfalfa for there milk heard take care be safe from Miami County Ohio 👍
10 gallon tank......... isn't that a lawn mower tank? more like 75 gallons.
Our old 1952 8N`s hold 10 gallons! Most neighboring farmers around here have 80 gallon tanks for their John Deere tractors.
What it be better to get a Grant/ Loan from the USDA?
I was told they can give you loan for your equipment, just trying to see if its an idea thought of?
You sound like our girls as teenagers when we told them to clean their rooms!! 😂😂😂 A cost benefit analysis should not prejudice for or against. You had me when you said, "We dont have time or land!!" No need to embelish either side of the argument. 😊
He does a good job of explaining how haying in his operation does work. Then he makes the cost argument make his decision look better than it really is.
Above all that the amount of nutrients imported in the hay also has a fertilizer value to your farm which is substantial.
If I were in your situation I would do just what you are doing. My farm requires a significant amount of hay so we look at which crop will pay back the most and how the rotation affects the farm. If hay is profitable I make lots if like this year there is cheap hay available I just purchase several semi loads. Saves an incredible amount of time that can be used to manage the herd, fix fence and do other necessary things. Everyone should take a look at how much their feed really costs. Just because you grow it yourself does not mean it will cost less.
No way we can make hay for $40 a roll….I would go broke. In the south, 4x5 is $60-70…..all fertilized and 10% CP
Hey Chuck
Great video. You said you still have an off farm job. Just wondering without specifics if you had to supplement income to your farm to keep it going or if it was stand alone. I hope to make the leap from town to farmer very very soon. Thanks
YEAR BEFORE LAST 52$A ROUND DELIVERED
LAST YEAR 125$ I HAD TO PICK UP(DROUGHT)
For you it makes sense for us western farmers that are paying upwards of $200 a ton. It’s not worth it nor does it make sense when we do our own hay we’re looking at a cost of about $65-$70 a bale versus bonnet for 200 so yeah for an average to smaller size farm. It makes sense.
This may make sense for small operations. I put up 2000 bales a year that's a lot of money. Also the sickle drive cutters are far more versatile and cheaper than disk
I'm farm raised. Both cattle and Hogs. So It made me think when I have My own Farm. I would raise Hay. No coes or Hogs. You don't have to Doctor Hay. It will not tear up a fence. You can have the Best fence in the world. And they will find a way to get out.
Not irritating me at all you’re 100% right and I make my living doing. Hey I have to be extremely careful to make any profit at all and with all the small hobbyist doing a thinking they want to get into it the profit at least for selling he’s completely out of the market. Even the highest priced hey that you’re seeing being sold 99% of the time is not profitable for the producer.
It makes it extremely difficult to make hay when you don’t have any hay making equipment….and it makes it almost impossible if you don’t have any land to grow any. Lol.
So what you’re saying is, if you don’t own any land or any equipment, it is cheaper to buy hay for a single year than it is to purchase land and equipment.
OF COURSE IT IS!
If you wanted to look at it over a 10+ year period which is more realistic. You need to look at the additional expenses of fuel cost and maintenance. But you’d also need to look at the expense that he will have in the invariable drought years. You also need to look at what you could sell the pieces of equipment for at the end of the 10 year period as well as the appreciation of the land. Do the work, and I think you’ll find a totally different result.