I've seen this in various places on probably every car I've worked on. But in all honesty I'm usually happy when I see bad spot welds because it makes separating the panels so much easier with minimal damage to the panels your not replacing.
Yep...brought a rusty 63 GP to a shop owner with your same work ethics. Very straightforward honest fella. He said this will be a lot of money to do...like $100k and I would be better off finding another vehicle. So I did...found one in Idaho. Very straight 95% rust free (trunk pan) needs replacement, but an touched car that was sitting for nearly 50 years at L&L Classics. No drivetrain and the interior of course was in shambles, but...my other rust bucket was a complete car...so it became a parts car..lol The owner said when he saw the Idaho car that it was definitely a good one and this is how we like to get them. He took pictures of the process at intervals and we keep in contact a couple times a week mostly. She's down to bare metal now and soon to have an epoxy coat and see where we are on ding, scratch and gouge repair. He said the same thing you do. People spend a lot of money for a nice shiny car only to find out in a year of so the paint is blistering and rust coming through. Then they bring it to my shop he said and he now has to undo all the stuff the other place did and repair all the metal work. And the people don't understand why it's so much money..lol I understand and take advice especially when it comes to my wallet. I disassembled, scrubbed, vacuumed, swept, and blew out some 50 years of crud, mouse mess, Idaho potatoe dirt/dust anything I could do to save time in the shop.
Thanks for the good advice and excellent photo backup. Buyers need to know what they are getting into and not just the shiny outside! Have a good holiday.
Thats the reason i bought Japanese cars back then I went and looked at a new 69 camaro on the showroom floor and the paint was terrible with orange peel all over it. The joke back then was don't buy a car that was finished on Friday or Monday. Friday, they were in a hurry to get home, and Monday, they all had hangovers. The Japanese cars were high quality at a reasonable price and earned their place
I’ll post some pics on either TH-cam here or my instagram page, but my 72 Volvo 1800 isn’t much better. Half the spot welds on the lower pinchweld of rocker panel are literally only 1/2 way touching the metal. It’s like the spot welder just barely grabbed the pinch weld . So I’m going over it with my spot welder.
I had a 65 Valiant that was spot welded poorly like that. Same thing, it was like on low body spots that a worker just loaded two areas with a good number of welds but most of them poorly placed on the steel and mostly because of that most of them were poor penetration weak welds or they were there but doing nothing for holding that portion of the car together. In that case I can say I made that car better than new giving it a better than a factory welding job on those spot welds. On the other end I have a 67 Skylark that was welded with pride, definitely a highly skilled factory worker that was exceptional at welding to factory specs. As a welder, when I see a weld on an old car, I automatically know by looking at it if the welder was a good one or not based on the accuracy of the welds how deep and good they are and how they are spaced. Luck of the draw on how good a car was welded. Hopefully this good information in your video sends a good message to get to people is that poor welding right from the factory did happen on occasion and they should take a Quick Look when they get a chance and make sure their car is welded solid. If not, fix it or get it fixed by a good welder if you don’t weld.
I am going thru this on a 65 GTO i to gave to much and i no better least i thought i did the more i dug the worst it got 5 years and still working on it but i think the worst part is over hopefully 2 more years i will have it done if it doesn't break me first i done it to myself car will be done right running out time and money 😅
I inherited my dads 55 Chevy that he acquired by deal that fell through….. he let a guy borrow $20,000 in return he had a year to pay it back and he would get his title back. Well, the deal fell through and my dad owned the 55….the car is beautiful. My dad had it appraised at $65,000. That was 10 years ago, not sure what it’s value is now. After I inherited it I went over it and found it had the wrong size 2 outer front wheel bearings. They bottomed out on the spindle in turn the rotor had enough play to rub against the knuckles… it made some shallow grooves in the rotor but they were salvaged…… I replaced the wheel bearings, they were 1/32 I.D. Diameter…. Must have been a beginner who worked on it
Dont think its lazy workers,more like inproper training and supervision of employees that werent supervised right,being those employees are only allowed very few hrs to do it properly,in other words do it quick or we will replace you.Back then it was rush,rush rush.
It was both. Not everyone was really up on quality control back then. It was really only the Germans and Japanese that had quality control. My 72 Volvo is just as inconsistently welded as this GTO, and British cars are much worse .
@edyates7601 actually, there was no penetration at all. No witness marks on the mating panels. The welds never went deep enough. I have an original paint and very solid '76 Monte Carlo that has a 20" section of the LH outer wheelhouse that has no welds at all, whereas the RH side is fully welded. Weak and/or missing welds was very common when humans were doing the work.
From the factory...... I can assure you the intentions of the maker, in this case GM. It was built with an expected life span and never thought we’d be “restoring “ or by today’s builders, over restoring. I see and build many vehicles, c series, Chev II, Chevelles, numerous E/B body Mopars. Many of them have been built, rebuilt, butchered from old school collision shops and lacking standards. Anytime you open a vehicle you gotta be surprised that it’s correct, unmolested or done with any quality standards. Nothing like telling an owner they own a cobbled mess of galvanized tin and 55 gallons of light weight and the remedy is a 6k order from AMD, couple hundred hours plus consumables. The price of restoration is high and escalating due to everything doubling.. Its gotten embarrassing when turning in time or running to the paint store.
I give up on trying to educate customers. Dipping isn't the complete answer either if they aren't flushed out they created a rust problem ! When people are paying $7000 for rollers that on a good day $45000 is top money for that finished, our industry is headed off a cliff!
@@errolpoxleitner9586 yep, it's planned obsolescence. If I could go back in time and tell any worker who assembled these cars that in 50+ years, they'd still be on the road, I think most would laugh themselves unconscious.
@@mikeyshouseofbrakes8463 strike or not, it happens more often than people are aware. I have a '76 Monte Carlo that they missed 20" of spot welds on my LH wheelhouse.
I've seen this in various places on probably every car I've worked on. But in all honesty I'm usually happy when I see bad spot welds because it makes separating the panels so much easier with minimal damage to the panels your not replacing.
best vid yet on how these cars were assembled. working on same stuff on a Chevelle
Yep...brought a rusty 63 GP to a shop owner with your same work ethics. Very straightforward honest fella. He said this will be a lot of money to do...like $100k and I would be better off finding another vehicle. So I did...found one in Idaho. Very straight 95% rust free
(trunk pan) needs replacement, but an touched car that was sitting for nearly 50 years at L&L Classics. No drivetrain and the interior of course was in shambles, but...my other rust bucket was a complete car...so it became a parts car..lol
The owner said when he saw the Idaho car that it was definitely a good one and this is how we like to get them. He took pictures of the process at intervals and we keep in contact a couple times a week mostly. She's down to bare metal now and soon to have an epoxy coat and see where we are on ding, scratch and gouge repair. He said the same thing you do. People spend a lot of money for a nice shiny car only to find out in a year of so the paint is blistering and rust coming through. Then they bring it to my shop he said and he now has to undo all the stuff the other place did and repair all the metal work. And the people don't understand why it's so much money..lol
I understand and take advice especially when it comes to my wallet. I disassembled, scrubbed, vacuumed, swept, and blew out some 50 years of crud, mouse mess, Idaho potatoe dirt/dust anything I could do to save time in the shop.
Thanks for the good advice and excellent photo backup. Buyers need to know what they are getting into and not just the shiny outside! Have a good holiday.
@rharris7635 Thank you! I know of a few very high dollar restorations that are loaded with underlying issues. Have a great holiday as well.
Thats the reason i bought Japanese cars back then I went and looked at a new 69 camaro on the showroom floor and the paint was terrible with orange peel all over it.
The joke back then was don't buy a car that was finished on Friday or Monday. Friday, they were in a hurry to get home, and Monday, they all had hangovers.
The Japanese cars were high quality at a reasonable price and earned their place
I’ll post some pics on either TH-cam here or my instagram page, but my 72 Volvo 1800 isn’t much better. Half the spot welds on the lower pinchweld of rocker panel are literally only 1/2 way touching the metal. It’s like the spot welder just barely grabbed the pinch weld . So I’m going over it with my spot welder.
I had a 65 Valiant that was spot welded poorly like that. Same thing, it was like on low body spots that a worker just loaded two areas with a good number of welds but most of them poorly placed on the steel and mostly because of that most of them were poor penetration weak welds or they were there but doing nothing for holding that portion of the car together. In that case I can say I made that car better than new giving it a better than a factory welding job on those spot welds. On the other end I have a 67 Skylark that was welded with pride, definitely a highly skilled factory worker that was exceptional at welding to factory specs. As a welder, when I see a weld on an old car, I automatically know by looking at it if the welder was a good one or not based on the accuracy of the welds how deep and good they are and how they are spaced. Luck of the draw on how good a car was welded. Hopefully this good information in your video sends a good message to get to people is that poor welding right from the factory did happen on occasion and they should take a Quick Look when they get a chance and make sure their car is welded solid. If not, fix it or get it fixed by a good welder if you don’t weld.
I am going thru this on a 65 GTO i to gave to much and i no better least i thought i did the more i dug the worst it got 5 years and still working on it but i think the worst part is over hopefully 2 more years i will have it done if it doesn't break me first i done it to myself car will be done right running out time and money 😅
I inherited my dads 55 Chevy that he acquired by deal that fell through….. he let a guy borrow $20,000 in return he had a year to pay it back and he would get his title back. Well, the deal fell through and my dad owned the 55….the car is beautiful. My dad had it appraised at $65,000. That was 10 years ago, not sure what it’s value is now.
After I inherited it I went over it and found it had the wrong size 2 outer front wheel bearings. They bottomed out on the spindle in turn the rotor had enough play to rub against the knuckles… it made some shallow grooves in the rotor but they were salvaged……
I replaced the wheel bearings, they were 1/32 I.D. Diameter….
Must have been a beginner who worked on it
Dont think its lazy workers,more like inproper training and supervision of employees that werent supervised right,being those employees are only allowed very few hrs to do it properly,in other words do it quick or we will replace you.Back then it was rush,rush rush.
Half of the workers on the line were drunk back in the day. Read the book "Rivet head"
It was both. Not everyone was really up on quality control back then. It was really only the Germans and Japanese that had quality control. My 72 Volvo is just as inconsistently welded as this GTO, and British cars are much worse .
Come on man the welds held for over 50yr
@edyates7601 actually, there was no penetration at all. No witness marks on the mating panels. The welds never went deep enough. I have an original paint and very solid '76 Monte Carlo that has a 20" section of the LH outer wheelhouse that has no welds at all, whereas the RH side is fully welded. Weak and/or missing welds was very common when humans were doing the work.
This is why old cars rattle, leak , squeak, get air noises etc.
From the factory...... I can assure you the intentions of the maker, in this case GM. It was built with an expected life span and never thought we’d be “restoring “ or by today’s builders, over restoring.
I see and build many vehicles, c series, Chev II, Chevelles, numerous E/B body Mopars. Many of them have been built, rebuilt, butchered from old school collision shops and lacking standards.
Anytime you open a vehicle you gotta be surprised that it’s correct, unmolested or done with any quality standards.
Nothing like telling an owner they own a cobbled mess of galvanized tin and 55 gallons of light weight and the remedy is a 6k order from AMD, couple hundred hours plus consumables.
The price of restoration is high and escalating due to everything doubling.. Its gotten embarrassing when turning in time or running to the paint store.
I give up on trying to educate customers. Dipping isn't the complete answer either if they aren't flushed out they created a rust problem ! When people are paying $7000 for rollers that on a good day $45000 is top money for that finished, our industry is headed off a cliff!
All cars are made to decompose i know because i have 5 of them.
@@errolpoxleitner9586 yep, it's planned obsolescence. If I could go back in time and tell any worker who assembled these cars that in 50+ years, they'd still be on the road, I think most would laugh themselves unconscious.
Probably built right before a strike.
@@mikeyshouseofbrakes8463 strike or not, it happens more often than people are aware. I have a '76 Monte Carlo that they missed 20" of spot welds on my LH wheelhouse.
people need to stop buying them and learn how to restore their own