A lot of people are mentioning The Acolyte but I wouldn’t exactly call that show “morally complex”. Morally confused, is more like it. To its credit, it does TRY to be complex but it fails spectacularly in creating a situation of moral greyness so I’m not sure we should be counting that
Well put. In the Acolyte Osha is not making a choice based on conflicting beliefs, she just decides Qimir (idk spelling) is worth following for reasons. Sure she learns Sol killed her mother but he did that while Anesaya looked to be consuming Mae as a smoke monster. Similarly, Mae doesn’t decide to be good because of reflecting on her beliefs, it just kind of happens because she wants to be with Osha but then also agrees to forget Osha exists. God that show was bad.
Oh, and to note another example of this in Disney, see the Pinocchio remake wherein a core part of the story REQUIRES the characters to explicitly to be naughty. To be bad. However, Disney couldn't permit that, and so all of the characters clearly have permission to do mild things that they were specifically told to do, and then are punished for it, because Disney cannot comprehend actual morality and in so doing completely broke the movie. Attempting to relate to normal people just breaks their minds at this point.
Well, Jedi were good guys in that show, aside from green-face (you kinda is allowed one or two bad apples per movie). Osha is non character protagonist till last two episodes (which is an achievement in itself), her sister moral compass is more like moral fan with pointer in one of blades. Bad guy is bad, despite weak minded attempts to put his actions into grey area. So, Disney movie.
to this day it baffles me that Disney made TWO star wars shows about bounty hunters, and between both of them, almost no bounty hunting actually takes place
@@FlymanMS it was also Disney's choice to give the characters reasons to quit bounty hunting, when they really didn't have to. frankly if I were running either or both of the shows I'd try and give them as many reasons as possible to continue bounty hunting, not less. the bounty hunter going on bounty hunts was kinda the selling point of both shows, wasn't it?
Interesting take Sheev, however I think there's something you fail to consider. In 1977, a Stormtrooper hit their head on a door, which means that Star Wars is forever goofy and does not require good storytelling, only goofy space wizards that do cool things sometimes. Moral complexity? Pffft! Much too boring, and not goofy enough, obviously.
Imagine if the Outlaws devs let you gun down civilians and then you were arrested by *stormtroopers* for murder. Wouldn't that say a lot more about the morality of your actions than what they went with?
I don't think Disney actually care at all about morals, and certainly not about saying anything. They just view the games, movies, shows, etc as extensions of, and advertisements for, the theme parks which are their real money makers. As advertisements they want to portray the world of Star Wars as kooky and exciting, but also wholesome, welcoming, safe, and inclusive. As extensions of the parks, they don't want them to depict antisocial behaviours for the practical reason that they don't want any increase to the risk of people behaving like that in Star Wars Land (i.e. the business robots in charge are terrified of any liability).
That's what I hoped and actually, 1% of me naively thought, would be possible in the game. I mean, come on, the Empire may be evil, but they wouldn't just let you murder innocent people just for fun and most Imperials would probably be pretty eager to kill or arrest you. I want the Empire from Andor; undeniably evil but not on such a carroonish scale. More reslistic, understandable and human. Instead, we get the 100% pure evil no-nuance-whatsoever Empire.
but that wouldnt be hecking wholesome, so even the criminals are now "pet parents" with personalities that fuse Ned Flanders' with that of a wealthy californian 30 year old
Honestly, just having Kay go against the Rebellion after the first betrayal instead of just magically forgiving and helping them would've been a massive improvement. [Though admittedly it would've deprived us of the hilarious scene where *Jabba the Hutt* announces he's helping the rebellion.]
@@floriansteininger347but the empire is cartoonishly evil. Two entirely separate versions had plans to basically eradicate worlds post the emperors death. They have super weapons that detonate Star systems. They enslave, they kill em mass commiting genocide…there’s a reason between legends and canon there’s literally only one guy who’s ever defected from the rebellion and he was a douche. You know another regime a lot like the empire was comically evil and if we want to take the Japanese influcne of Star Wars they were literally looking to see who could skewer the most people on bayonets
Grievous is one of the characters that suffered the most of this obsession of NO GRAY CHARACTERS & NO POINT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MORALITY COMPASS While Legends Grievous was no saint, there was a certain tragedy & an objectively true point in what he did. He joined the Separatist movement because he had no other option to save his people, & his people were indangered BECAUSE of the corruption & unfariness of the republic, & while Grievous did a lot of reprehensible stuff, he was also an honorable warrior & always had a reason to do the things he did, he wanted to get his hand dirty so noneone of his people had to The modern Grievous(letting aside he's a complete incompetent), is a mustache twerling cartoonish & unidimensional piece of evil who is only evil because why not
You can say the same about Count Dooku. By Attack of the Clones, he was trying to uproot the cause of corruption in the senate and destroy Palpatine. He even asked others to join him
Grievous hatred towards the Huk and the Republic who supported them was understandable, considering they set his world Kalee into ruin and poverty, because of deceptions of the Huk at the Senate.
Don't forget: Originally, Grievous was pretty much drafted into being a pawn of the Separatists. Dooku sabotaged his shuttle, and kept him alive long enough to play on his hatred for the jedi. Old Grevious was fully prepared to just, let go, prior to being baited into mechanical undeath by Dooku. New Grievous? Memory serves, that bad joke willingly became a cyborg, for power. And that man clearly got conned, because even the old LEGO Grievous is running combative and intellectual circles around him.
"Imagine a version of this game where Del is technically in the right morally but he's framed as an antagonist because you're playing as an imperial die-hard who feels she was betrayed" That's actually the plot of Squadrons!
@@samueltitone5683 The existence of Ciaphas Cain, Eisenhorn, Gaunts Ghosts, and Rogue Trader directly disproves your claim. And all that is off the top of my head.
@@chasehedges6775 Complex. He was never a complex character. No sane person would ever call him 'not interesting'. Boba Fett was so interesting that they cloned him and put him in the prequels just to get more scenes like him.
George Lucas changed a scene that expertly introduced moral complexity through brilliant use of “show, don’t tell” to make Han look like more of a good guy, and fans didn’t like it. Ubisoft unironically said “let’s do that, but for an entire game!” Then act surprised and shocked at the response.
Han's still explicitly a drug smuggler in that movie, and "spice" being drugs are Lucas's words, so Han doesn't come out squeaky clean regardless. Granted, the spice in question he dropped was almost certainly glitterstim, which isn't exactly the "hardest" substance to abuse in Star Wars, but still.
Lucas changed it because people kept misunderstanding it. The point is that Han shot in self defence. If a guy is planning to kill you, it doesn’t matter if you shoot first, it’s self defence. This concept went over many people’s heads, as you’re supposed to understand Greedo from the outset does not intend to let Han live. But people interpreted that has Han murdering someone. So Lucas changed it.
@@ChaplainOfWar-m1k I didn't entirely remember why Lucas did it, but yeah, Greedo says "that's the idea" when Han says "over my dead body," all with a gun pointed at him. Also, despite the who shot who discourse, I'm pretty sure before the special edition, you don't actually see anyone fire at all. In the novel, it doesn't really indicate more than one person shot, but like the film originally, what exactly happened is open to interpretation anyway.
@@1000g2g3g4g800999 It’s a Wild West kind of approach, and it’s the reason why a concept like The Mandalorian or a Solo Story _can_ work in the Star Wars universe, they just need the right kind of script. Something both lacked, arguably
Moral Complexity can also get VERY annoying and contrived when done constantly and done wrong. "Oh, I killed a Billion people because their king killed my sister, even though 99% of them had NOTHING to do with it!". Some of the best villains and heroes in fiction ARE complex, but the classic Hero and Villain thing has it's charm. But yeah, a OUTLAW game where you CAN'T steal from non enemy citizens is just stupid.
Bad writing is bad, news at 11 LOL. We're getting both bad writing AND the same premise over and over with Disney Star Wars. They need to at least attempt variety if they want to keep pumping content.
@Lobsterwithinternet I would have watched a Abeloth force Mother trilogy, tweak some things around, and it would have been 1000% better than what Disney did in the end. A enemy that ISN'T Sith preserving the Anakin prophecy of killing them, a more mystical focus on the universe compared to the other trilogies, and can have New Republic/Rebels and Storm Troopers fighting together.
Yeah, I don't think that's moral complexity, really. You can and often are extremely complex with black and white morality when you add in the motivations to cross the line, motivations for redemption, is it determined you will cross the line, etc. Similarly, you can say basically nothing in a morally grey lense by having no lines. Every character has a thread guiding motivation and criss cross paths bump heads. It doesn't really have any complexity by default. Tbh it is why a lot of the new sw stuff is rough. The Grey morality just doesn't feel like anything other than kayfabe for cheesy and simple gotcha drama moments
Yep. I get flak for saying Andor is probably the best piece of Star Wars media put to screen because it shows the empire as more than Saturday morning cartoon villians. They're brutal, effective and sometimes surprisingly human and understandable. Cassian isn't some scoundrel with a heart of gold he's a scared man trying to survive in a brutal world and get as far away from the empire as possible.
Syril and Dedra also show how characters working within the empire can do evil things and still have sympathetic motivations. And Luthen is great because he shows that the rebels aren’t just squeaky clean good guys either, they have to make morally compromising choices and sacrifice.
Syril is the perfect example of a morally complex antagonist. While he is obsessive and overly ambitious, seeing imperial space cops get blasted away by Cassian and Luthen from the perspective of a low-level imperial loyalist was something I didn't know I needed. No wonder Syril believes Cassian is a terrorist. He's psychologically scarred by the attack and tortured by his failure that cost the lives of several of his men. His motivations are easy to understand and even sympathize with. The writing is just brilliant.
"What else is there?" "A choice." "The rebellion?" "No. A choice to be better." This is the single best line of dialogue I've heard from Luke. I don't think anything comes close to encapsulating his philosophy.
The worst thing about the Disney acquisition, by far, is that this is Disney. This is it. They are not going to sell off Star Wars to any other company. They are not going bankrupt in the next 50 years. Star Wars is stuck with them. *This* is the new status quo for Star Wars. *Forever* No more unique projects like Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars or The Force Unleashed. Mediocre, grey, reheated sloppy games and TV series for the rest of forever.
This is so depressing and it has made me completely stop watching all new Disney releases. I want to bankrupt them so badly. My fiancé is upset that I refuse to do a family trip to Disney World, but I just can't fathom giving them another cent.
@@Oppen1945 Yeah but they usually don’t give complete control over to people. It seemed like Disney didn’t try to interfere or water down anything…my guess is they didn’t think anyone would care about Andor
Mandalorians are the biggest example. They went from a people who didn’t flinch at torching half the outer rim in the mandalorian wars to “WhOleSome FReedOM fiGHTeRs wHo StaND uP agAinst tHe EmPIRe.” They have a sense of honor but that honor isn’t “do the right thing” it’s more about victory and glory.
I hate to break it to you, but that's the original depiction of the Mandalorians all the way back in the Marvel Comics. Bloodthirsty warmongers with only some ethics wasn't initially a thing until much later. Kotor didn't invent the Mandalorians, they only brought them into the public eye after the initial Marvel Comics and later Dark Horse Comics. Dark Horse Comics would later create the distinction of Death Watch and True Mandalorians, later known as the Mandalorian Protectors. The former claims to be traditional as they uphold the values of the Neo-crusaders of the Kotor games wheras True Mandalorians claims their traditional status by returning to the moral codes of the Crusaders like Rohlan Dyre from the Kotor comics.
@@Elitex62 In the empire strikes back novelization, Boba Fett is described as wearing a weapon covered armored space suit used by a group of “evil warriors”.
What’s crazy is Ubisoft supposedly thought this game was their Red Dead Redemption 2. Considering you cannot even hijack other vehicles or shoot while driving, they were far off the boat with that estimation. Look forward to the video and thank you for making content. :)
@@Lobsterwithinternet exactly, that’s why it’s more disappointing. Kotor wasn’t very open world (compared to modern games) but you still got to make choices that affected the ending of the story. In outlaws it’s like you said, only the good guys choices.
@@brandonbriggs8098 It's a very on the rails game. Anytime you try to do anything that the game does not want you to intend in a meaningful way(I stress meaningful because it's not players trying to break the game deliberately) the game punishes you. Did you know that if you have zero favorability across all the factions and you go into the final mission's cutscene, the game crashes. I kid you not. The developers never accounted for that at all. LOL.
The funny thing is Boba Fett going through a redemption arc works on paper. Unlike most Star Wars characters, he has a good reason to rethink his life choices after dying from his lifestyle. Plus, if handled right, we can see how the brutality of his choices is softened by finding the emotional connection he's lost since that's why he became a bounty hunter. The problem is that he starts as the same character he is by the end of the show.
Disney+ does a show about agatha but insted of making her the villain they make her the moral compass of the story because the actual conflict comes from wandas son wanting her back doing awfull thing to bring her back.... Meanwhile max does a penguin show where all he does is killing and lieing in a mob war so he can take over the tittle of Kingpim of gotham. Oh and he almost burry alive his aprentice to show him how cruel the world is. Make villains friggin villains!
She doesn't seem that moral in the show from what I remember? One of the first things she does is try to manipulate a bunch of witches to get their power.
@@erickamakeeaina1649 evil witches not GOOD witches. Is like calling tom hardys venom evil just because he eats bad people but he let good people live. Or when Christian Bale batman said that he won't kill ras but "he won't save him" Ethical loopholes are shitty writting
The old Boba would've allowed the drug business to flow so long as he got a piece of the action. Remember how in KOTOR 2, you can browbeat some slavers into giving you tribute money?
Boba is my favourite "Space Maori" And Temuera Morrison is perfect for the role! EDIT : - And what happened to another favourite Maori of the Movies, Taika Waititi's Star Wars project? I heard that Disney made him an offer for a movie script and apparently he was still working on it as of early this year, but as far as I know there's nothing more said about it since then. That's a damn shame, as he's an incredibly talented man.
Yeah. The story should have been about Boba learning to manage people and learning to not kill everyone. Who wouldn't love to have seen Boba saved by an army of bounty hunters who knew Boba and wanted a place to retire to?
@@Lobsterwithinternet Wow! The stories that you'd hear at the old cantina at that retirement village would have been epic. Sit back, pull up a stool, and buy an old Space Pirate a 🍺 or two and then let him tell all about "way back in my day ...."
You are aware that the original trilogy there’s almost no complexity. Star Wars doesn’t allow complexity cause it’s always been black and white, good and evil. George Lucas said it. It’s black and white. There’s never a grey area in the franchise or grey Jedi. Blame George, Disney is just following his words.
What really bothers me about Disney Star Wars is how it refuses to do unique projects. Every new movie, show or game (with just a couple exceptions) feels the same and there is very little nuance. Every Star Wars project tells a safe, family-friendly story designed to appeal to the widest masses of casual consumers. Every project is a lighthearted adventure. It's as if Disney had just one formula for Star Wars and refused to try anything new. Star Wars is such a rich and limitless franchise, that it could easily accommodate a lot of different genres. Why not make a movie/game about Darth Vader on his quest to destroy the remainder of the Jedi order? Where is the Red Dead Redemption-style Star Wars game about a cold bounty hunter? Why can we not get a game where we play as a Sith??? And why is Disney so hellbent on NOT exploring different genres? Star Wars could be a political thriller about the machinations of the Republic Senate and Palpatine's schemes to create the Empire. It could be a war movie about clone troopers surviving through the toughest campaigns of the Clone Wars. Maybe we could get a spy movie/show about Rebels infiltrating the Empire to steal valuable information. Or imagine a high-budget Star Wars show in the style of Game of Thrones! A proper character-driven drama with palpable tension built on dialogues and character interactions.
They somewhat did that with the first season of The Mandalorian, which felt more like a Western set in Star Wars. And I think a big part of the appeal was the change in genre. As for the Game of Thrones style show, it should be set during the Sith Empire. That I feel would work best.
Now that I think about it, I would LOVE a game like Assassin's creed Black Flag, except you play as General Grievous in his early days as a cyborg general for the Separatist alliance. Starting out as a warrior going out of his ways to hunt down the enemies of his people, and slowly becoming more of a mad war criminal ruthlessly murdering jedis and blowing up Venators.
The larger a corperation gets, generally the more risk averse their overall strategy will be. It's unfortunate but yeah, generally you'll stop seeing interesting things and just get sanded down porridge.
Being a "Moral" criminal is only impactful if: A, you are given the option to do immoral things and there are consequences for doing ether. Or B, the point in your story is that the character is morally good but has to navigate the underworld(option B really needs to be written well)
@konstantinosnikolakakis8125 Walter White is a good example, he has every opportunity to turn it around but he doesn't he well... breaks bad and dies because of it but if he didn't have an option of being good or bad then it wouldn't be interesting
@@TheeDawson Good point, Walter had an easy out at the very beginning when his old co-workers offered to pay for his treatment and he could've probably negotiated some money for his family as a favour if he would end up terminal as well. However, Walter's greatest flaw is his pride and low self-esteem so he HAD to do it his own way, no matter how.
The first half of the Sopranos final season does the moral criminal thing pretty interestingly, showing just how hard it is to have a life fundamentally built upon malice and exploitation of others while trying to be a decent person. It’s actually quite interesting how in the Sopranos doing the right thing morally is almost always bad for criminal business.
I love TFU, but I’m not sure I’d hold it up as “morally complex.” Star Wars is a fairy tale western-it’s always going to struggle at moral complexity, because it was always written to be morally unambiguous. The most “interesting” the morality was ever supposed to get was the good guys ostensibly “becoming” the bad guys during the Clone Wars.
What's really crazy is Warner bros and DC can do a penguin show where he happily sells drops (drugs) to many people and ruin their lives for his own gain as a mobster but Boba? Nah he's a kiddy version of what a "crime lord" would be
Boba Fetts not even a crime lord in that show. Like, I actually can’t remember him committing a single crime, except maybe extortion, and even then, he doesn’t even bother to threaten the people who won’t pay him. He behaves more like a sheriff than a crime boss.
The annoying part about Boba is that he also hated spice in Legends (due to his wife getting SAed by a man who was high on Spice) but it also pointed out why he worked for people like the Empire and Jabba. It addressed his hypocisy but he valued the order that Jabbas control had over the spice. And he even said he was hoping the Empire would eventually outlaw it. Its revealed in a conversation between himself and Leia when shes captured by Jabba and was sent to his room for the night. And he told her to take the bed as he lay on the floor, because he didnt want to force himself on a woman. Plus, it also placed a light on Hans past as he was a spice runner. It made Boba feel like a real character. He had values, flaws and contradictions but also throughlines in his way of thinking thay shows why he acts the way he does. He sees the Rebellion as chaos and wont last long, he likes the order the Empire has and takes Jabbas pay because the hutt is sending him after criminals. People also forget that a bounty hunter is a type of lawman. So Boba is neutral and is taking the jobs that lie in his own code. Here, Boba doesnt have that personal connection to spice. He just gets rid of it because its right and because Mos Pelgo (no, i am not calling it fcking free town) asked. It doesnt line up with a code we know he lives by. And the annoying thing is that the Legends books had fcking nothing to work with for Boba beyond a few lines. Yet they made him immensely interesting. Disney not only had legends as a blueprint but they had what was then established in the prequels and even TCW. To delve into what lessons Boba was taught from Jango, Cad Bane and even his own life. To show us his own code. Yet they just made him do good things because its the good protagonist thing to do. Its the same with Rey. She does good things because they are good. She isnt given the choice to choose them and grow her values.
@@Lobsterwithinternet The Penguin is also kinda a third term that’s anti villain. Not a anti hero, but a villain with redeeming qualities and isn’t just a one dimensional pure evil guy. He’s more human and doesn’t just want power for the sake of it as he has people and things he cares about and he’s charismatic. Is anti villain a good term? Because idk about calling him a anti hero. 🤷♂️
@@ParkerCS2 more like you can make him a gangster who takes good care of his people. Gotham is full of vicious gangsters and mafia like the Maroni, Falcone, etc. Those gangs don’t care much about collateral damage. Not to mention all the other freak villains. You can make the Penguin as a guy who was insulted and made fun of for his physique, yet rise above that to become someone to be feared by his enemies and but a source of stability for those under his protection. So, your typical protagonist gangster.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 exactly so my point is you can have an anti hero who’s likeable and a good character but not have to make him a good person. Tony Soprano, Walter White, are examples. Just be an old fashioned gangster protagonist.
Something that I don't think gets mentioned enough with the railroading of morality in the newer star wars games is that they make being a good person feel less rewarding too. Sure people can complain about not being able to hijack vehicles or shooting civilians and whatnot, but it also takes away from the feeling of pride I feel in myself I get when I choose not to do those things if you take away my choice to do so.
It really feels like Disney is afraid of facing scrutiny over making badass characters that do what they do because of self interest rather than "it's the right thing to do"
This is exactly why Andor beats all the other modern Star wars shows, it manages to write actual moral complexity and basically follows the ROTS quote perfectly *There are heroes on both sides, evil is everywhere*
This is why I like playing through Star Wars The Old Republic, because you get to play your Jedi, Sith, mercs, and soldiers as either Republic or Empire. And you can choose whether to make heroic or evil decisions (though your impact is not nearly as large due to the nature of the MMO).
The most important thing to note about the OT is that it’s specifically the Jedi vs Sith, where the whole point is that the Jedi are good and the Sith are evil. Everyone else, however…
In that trilogy, Luke is put into conflict between continuing his training and assisting his friends in peril. Han has to choose between his prior life and working for something greater than himself. Vader/Anakin has to choose between the Empire and his son.
Shatterpoint has entered the chat. Seriously, that whole book is moral complexity. Mace Windu watching a kid kill another kid with a broken knife. Disney wouldn't touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole
Even outside of star wars you have movies like venom or morbius that's taking villains and making them "heroes" that fight badder villains in their movies and I'm just kinda over that trope too, make the villain a villain in their movie
@DiamondKingStudios movies now days either try to be overly pretentious or just shit on their fan base for not liking their "new direction" nothing is genuinely artistic anymore
The closest thing to a morally complex character you can play as in the new games is the Imperial character in Star Wars Squadrons. There's a mission where they willingly let you attack defenseless transports carrying civilian refugees as like a side objective.
Exactly. In the dialogue too, the game tried to show the schism between the imperials, showing moral soldiers who believed what they were doing were right, war-damaged veterans who had nothing else but the empire, and hardcore fascists, the total worst of the worst. The game's writing is exceptionally good on the imperial side, and I wish that same level of moral care and complexity was given to the republic in that game, and that the game's writing got more credit.
I think the prequels did moral complexity nicely. You had the core vs rim conflict, two sides that had their ideals corrupted but people who believed in them, and you had a democratic government that allowed itself to be turned into a dictatorship.
I think the prequels attempted to have moral complexity but generally failed to execute on it and just left people asking more questions. Like the rise of the Empire basically only happens because everyone in the Republic is being a stuck up idiot that never ever thought through the consequences of their actions and refused to deviate even slightly from whatever ideology they had. Now this could work if it was actually shown to be part of these people's character in a way where we could understand their actions as perhaps tragic but that's never done and instead we get characters like Yoda basically telling Anakin to stop being a bitch about his dead mother.
@@creed8712 only thing that doesn't really work is the jedi siding with the republic...All the CIS wanted was to leave the republic.....that's literally it but they couldn't. the republic didn't allow it.
unfortunately, it does a poor job at communicating this complexity. The good sides of the CIS aren't mentioned at ALL during the prequel films, and the jedi are portrayed as complete good guys, with no attempt at framing their actions as anything bad outside of dialogue, to a point where many people who don't pay attention to a few scenes and their confusing dialogue and exposition think the jedi were without flaw
Watching book of boba reminded me of a comic i read as a kid. Boba is given a job to deal with some crime lords that are making this small tribes lives hell, they offer him pennies in value to what he is worth, insulted he was about to shoot the man who called him, then the man (paraphrasing) says "You were the most feared smuggler, then you lost to Han, and then lost...again...and again...and again.. maybe this job isn't about money but, proving you are the ultimate bounty hunter" Boba responds with yes, does a damn good job cleaning them up, he comes pack offers the man some parting comforts and then leaves, not even taking the credits. I may remember some details wrong but that alone showed me more character for Boba then his entire show did.
To be fair, Boba killed spice dealers in legends for their trade. That was also the version of Boba that told Leia the Empire was justified to blow up Alderaan, though. (source: Tales of the Bounty Hunters)
See, with that though is it was in the complex code Boba lived by. He hated spice because his wife was raped by a spice user. And it's why he hates Han for being a spice runner. But he works for Jabba to at least keep some of it under control and he has a distant hope that the Empire will sort Jabbas spice trade out, which it has done a decent job by making it illegal (Han had to drop the spice because of imperial ships) But thats his choice to make that distinction. Here, it's a choice made for him because he has to be "The Protagonist"
The whole “Boba Fett becoming a hero” angle was handled a lot more competently in Legends. For those who don’t know, Boba Fett faded into the background for the better part of two decades of the Legends timeline. He didn’t play anything resembling a major role again until the Yuuzhan Vong War, when it was revealed that he was now the Mand’alor. Even then, he led Mandalorians in battles FOR the Vong, not turning his coat and aiding the New Republic until he realized that the Vong would inevitably betray the Mandalorians. After that, we don’t hear about him for another decade, when he’s dying due to a defect the cloning process had introduced into his genetics. It’s at this time we find out that he only became Mand’alor in the first place because (A) he was asked, (B) it was what Jango would have done, and (C) he was promised he could be a figurehead with zero responsibilities outside of wartime. It takes the death of his daughter and meeting his granddaughter to convince him to take honoring his father’s legacy as Mand’alor seriously. This is when he finally buckles down and starts thinking of the greater good of his people, making executive decisions and forging alliances that will restore the Mandalorians as a faction that the galaxy would respect. I had hoped that this would be the past Djin Djarin’s story would take when he got the Darksaber - that he would need to mend bridges between all the fractured Mandalorian groups, despite being one of the fundamentalists whom all the other factions despise. I know this veered away from the gritty scoundrel story we were promised, but at least it would explore Star Wars through the lens of a faction that only cared about their own interests rather than the cosmic conflict. It could have led to some interesting conflicts, like maybe the Mandalorians getting a chance to increase their stake in the galaxy by helping the Imperial Remnant strike back at the New Republic, with Darin needing to balance the needs of his people against the knowledge of what the Empire would happily do to Grogu if they got a chance to steal Grogu back.
Mandalorians were supposed to be bad asses and bad guys. And yes Boba Fett was supposed to deal whatever passes for dope in SW. As some comments stated he just wouldn't sell it to children. And he would, at, the very least, tax any dealer in his turf not from his cartel. He worked for Jabba, who was someone vile even for the low standarts of the hutts. And for Vader too as well.
If you look into Legends, Star wars has some really nuanced stuff. For example Darth Malgus had a wife that he genuinely loved. However due to him being a Sith he kept this hidden, but after a rival found out and tried to assassinate his wife but failed he realized his Wife was a weakness to him, so he killed her. Don't remember if this is part of the story or fan theory but he also killed his wife as a way to fuel himself with the pain and guilt of this since the dark side feeds off negative emotions.
@@PostCrisisRH Given the approach taken where "canon" just means "they're all just stories" to Filoni and it's supposed to be a mythology... I feel like they should have picked a different word.
When they try to write morally complex characters, they just make them irredeemable villains. When they write good guys, they don't explain why they are good and sometimes they are dangerously naive and kind.
Totally agree with your point about the villains. What’s the point of making us feel bad for the villains at all if they’re not going to be clearly shown to have any redeeming qualities? At this point, a tragic backstory on its own will never cut it again because they’re a dime a dozen. As for the good guys, their only flaw is that “they care too much.” I guess that’s how you know it’s fiction since there’s no way you could get a job by saying something like that irl.
Do neither of you see the irony in the fact that Darth Vader was the face of redemption in the original Star Wars? That Luke saved him in spite of the fact that he was left to die at the end of Empire Strikes Back? This is my problem with the fan constructed narrative around this franchise, it's presented as "objective." And now they spend time defending the prequels...
@@futurestoryteller That's not my point. You can redeem villains if you write them well, but they don't do that and often present them as correct when they are supposed to be villains...
@@futurestoryteller I personally never actually saw the end of Darth Vader’s story as redemptive. He made one morally correct choice after years of being pure evil. It’s still a somewhat happy ending for him because he was able to finally find self mastery in the end and prove to Luke that there was still some goodness in him and that he was right to spare his father’s life. So the word I would use for that arc is closure, not redemption. The fact that the average Star Wars fan automatically sees his end as being “redemptive” is just another instance of the average fan of pretty much anything being reductive and missing the point. Also, just so we’re absolutely clear, I’ll die before I defend the prequels. I can’t stand how the fandom menace is retroactively lipsticking that pig either.
TLDR: Andor was great because it felt real, and Boba's redemption should have been done by evolving his moral code of keeping his word. Initially I was kinda "meh" on Andor. It didn't really grab me the same way Mando season 1 and most of season 2 did. But, like what has been echoed many times in the comments, Andor did a fantastic job of showing the actual administrative and judicial state of the Empire as much more complex and deep than just fascist jackboot comic book villains and their lackeys. DISCLAIMER: Yes, the empire is absolutely still a fascist dictatorship run by an evil space wizard that can shoot lightning out of his hands. What I'm talking about is the portrayal of people viewing the empire as a necessary evil in-universe. They lived through the corruption of the old republic, the chaos and terror of the clone wars, and then were told that the mystical order of lightsaber swinging force monks that operated above any local or galactic jurisdiction were behind it all. Of course there would be people eager to sign up to defend the empire. Of course there would be true believers that genuinely felt that the empire was a better alternative to lawlessness or corrupted cronyism. And on the other side of that coin, they weren't afraid the show the "whatever it takes" side of the rebellion. The people willing to lie, cheat, steal, bribe, and murder their way out of totalitarianism. The people that understood they likely would not live to see their cause triumph in the end but did it anyways, alongside the ones that just joined the rebellion for an easy way to smash and grab imperial resources for their own enrichment. In short, it was real. In a way that is missed when the story focuses on the never-ending conflict between jedi and sith. Boba Fett can 100% have a redemption arc, he can become a force for good in the universe, but it has to make sense. It can't just be "hey don't do that because that's mean and I don't like mean people anymore!" Boba spent his entire life surrounded and influenced by some of the worst characters in the galaxy, morally speaking. He had absolutely zero issue gunning down people that stood between him and a payday, and his moral compass was based around keeping his word. They could have used that in a much smarter way.
Yup you're entire point about battlefront 2 is perfect, if there was ONE defector and you played BOTH sides, it would have added so much more ambiguity
Funny that we did actually get what you’re wanting in the acolyte. But they just did it so poorly that Disney will now say “ we tried but it didn’t work”
So I’ve never played any of these games and the video does an amazing job at not making you feel like your missing any context despite never playing them which is awesome and I don’t have a clue how sheev managed to do that. Anyway here’s a summary: The author criticizes Star Wars Outlaws for its restrictive morality and lack of player agency. They propose a revised story where the protagonist’s love interest defects to the Rebellion, creating a compelling conflict between the two characters. The author also expresses frustration with the lack of morally ambiguous protagonists in recent Star Wars games, contrasting them with older titles like Bounty Hunter. Disney’s streaming shows often portray main characters as inherently good, limiting creative storytelling. The Book of Boba Fett deviates from the character’s original ruthless persona, raising questions about the purpose of giving him his own show. Despite the franchise’s history of simple good vs. evil conflicts, there is potential for more complex moral narratives in the Star Wars universe.
Boba Fett is a man on a job. He’s not good or evil he’s a man who does a job and gets paid and who you don’t want to cross or scam otherwise you’re his next target.
It such a shame that Star Wars under Disney keeps feeling like it can have the ability to do something fun and different but won’t let itself actually branch out. It’s like planting different trees but somehow forcing them to grow the same way. I don’t have a problem of redemption stories but have them feel different and have different outcomes.
Star Wars Outlaws: where you play an Outlaw who always follows the law Brought to you by Disney Makers of Book of Boba Fett about the Galaxy's greatest bounty hunter who doesn't do any bounty hunting.
This is why most of the _Old Republic_ games' stuff is so GOATed in hindsight. Able to show the Jedi being flawed (I.e., screwing things up with Mandalore) without outright being evil like the Sith, and giving players the option to actually explore different moral routes. From honorable Jedi knights to scummy Sith betrayers, and the smuggles, bounty hunters, and normal dudes in between. Ironic that such old material has date graphics yet with great characters, themes and storytelling, while modern Star Wars has great visuals with garbage writing and no real effort. If you were to go back and try to prove to early 2000's Star Wars fans that we would go from Revan and Kreia to Live-Action!Ahsoka and Osha, it would be understandable if they laughed you off and/or got justifiably pissed and disgusted with how things would turn out (besides Andor, sadly).
I would like it if we had more shows like Andor that push the boundaries on character complexity. I understand that Disney wants Disney+ to be a platform mainly for kids but there is possibility in the Star Wars franchise for being more then that.
10:36 Reminds me of a line from Black Dynomite: Black Dynamite: I'm declaring war on anyone who sells drugs to the community. Chocolate Giddy-Up: But Black Dynamite! *I* sell drugs to the community!
I've never understood why in recent years the idea seems to have established itself that Star Wars is, basically, a product designed for little ones... when its story is based on the path of fall and redemption. We can talk endlessly about how Lucas conveyed these themes, but it is undeniable that they are very present, themes that lead to greater complexity for the characters: just to stay with the original trilogy alone, Luke goes through trials that are anything but light on his journey to becoming a Jedi and, at the end of Return of the Jedi, he gambles everything, now aware that his father has definitively died and only Vader remains. Just because there are teddy bears, puppets, actors in costumes and lightsabers doesn't mean that the important themes are automatically lost.
Because the people in charge and the loudest manchildren in the fandom associate Star Wars with their childhood. This has caused Star Wars to become infantilized as a children's allegorical story above anything else the series is or could be.
The complaint in this video is weird because it can also be a double edged sword. I recently watched many videos pointing out how nihilism has taken over media to the point that there is no triumph at the eyes of the audience and at the expense of having "moral ambiguity" or "grey" there is no more heroic people at Hollywood movies, and if there are, they get portrayed as extremely naive or stupid.
A lack of moral complexity is baked into it from the start. Everything is archetypal, every character fits snuggly on an alignment chart. That is why Han must shoot first etc. it isn’t that it refuses, it can’t
The OT, maybe it was morally simple, but I’d argue that the PT, even before the Clone Wars series, presented moral complexity: the Jedi and Republic being powerless to stop slavery on Tatooine, Anakin, the Jedi becoming warriors instead of peacekeepers, Anakin, Count Dooku (kinda-ish), ANAKIN!
This is why I couldn’t watch rebels. Every week every character murdered like dozens of imperial soldiers, who at that time are basically just the galactic cops, and not one of them, even the Jedi ever feel bad! Remember when clone wars questioned if fighting the death watch was moral? And when Anakin kills that guy Obi Wan and Satine are arguing over it’s considered a morally grey moment? Rebels like never does that.
I mean Rebels is also very clearly aimed at younger kids whereas The Clone Wars was aimed at the tween and teenager segment so I think complaining about this kinda thing is a bit silly. Did you really expect the show where the main character uses a slingshot as his primary weapon to have much moral complexity?
Here's my hot take about EA's Jedi games. I think Cal should have been defeated by Vader at the end of Fallen Order, and then turned into an Inquisitor. Narratively, it would make perfect sense. Cal has a rare ability of psychometry - listening to force echoes of the past - which would make him an ideal Inquisitor in the eyes of Vader. Such an ability would be invaluable when tracking the remaining Jedi. I think this would be a brilliant plot twist that completely makes sense. Cal would replace 2nd Sister Trilla after defeating her and then be tasked with hunting down his old crew, as well as other Jedi. It would be such a cool inversion of the classic "bad guy redeems himself" trope. Cal, a well-meaning person, falls to the dark side because of torture and pain. He bit more than he could chew, thought he could defeat the Empire, but then ended up like other inquisitors before him. He's not the "chosen one", just another tragic character defeated by the Empire. Gameplay-wise, making Cal an Inquisitor would open the door for cool dark side force powers like force choke, force rage or force lightning. And the combat could be way more brutal and satisfying. And if devs really wanted to, they could eat the cake and keep it. Make Cal a conflicted dark side user and maybe give him a symbolic redemption arc at the end, before he dies. You know... like Vader in Episode 6.
Did they actually teach inquisitors force lightning and other cool dark-sighty things? I don't remember inquisitors ever using any cool powers. As far as I remember their force knowledge was pretty limited. Sith wouldn't allow them to have too much power so I don't see how it would be much more interesting then playing as a jedi.
@@QWONIE still inquisitor. which means nobody. They don't even have names. And no, Sith won't teach a guy with a number instead of a name to do force lightning and other cool stuff. So I still see no point in this.
@@CinematicSeriesGaming yeah, It could be interesting but I feel like tfu fans would hate on it. But it could be fun to learn as a sith in this type of gameplay.
When they replaced the Kwa and Rakatans with the Zeffo I knew it was over. There used to be an underlying horror to the StarWars galaxy that is just gone
The Sequel Trilogy could've been good if Rey was written either as a deconstruction of Luke or as a criminal. They had the framework for it, a scavenger on an impoverished desert planet which could explain how she knew how to fly ships who never saw her family again. What would that kind of person really look like, what would she act like? She could've been someone focused primarily on money like Han Solo, this would make a potential turn towards the dark side believable since she would've already exhibited traits consustent with them. This would contrast the daredevil pilot of Poe, and the jaded ex-stormtrooper of Finn.
its all just half measures to protect the brand. people want complex stories but disney is scared to sell complex characters as toys. this means they can never have the confidence to tell the bold stories in the romantic tradition that made star wars great in the first place nor can they tell the morally complex stories that people want and that the brand needs to grow
Commenting paused at 9:42 so sorry if you mention this, but I think Deadpool 3 shined a light on what we already suspected. Kevin Feige said the main characters couldn't use or even talk about using illicit substances in a positive light, except to joke about how they couldn't talk about it because Kevin Feige said no. They mentioned him by name as the reason why they couldn't even talk about it euphemistically.
It's really no surprise that when it comes to SWTOR the Imperial servers are always more populated than the Republic ones, and yes I know we're talking about a different Empire. However, my point still stands that it's one of the few times you can play as the bad people in The Empire from beginning to end.
And even when you do, the light side choices are often not even the goody goody ones, but simply the most pragmatic choice to make in a given situation. You can be a psychotic dick if you want to, but most of the time it doesn't make a lot of sense and actually makes things worse for you and everyone else. The Empire is just way more interesting, because that dynamic is a lot less pronounced for the Republic, where making dark side choices utterly breaks your immersion because none of the NPCs around you who are trying to fight the good fight should put up with it.
The Luke in these scenes feels like he came through a dimensional rift from the old EU and vanished immediately after the scene ended again. Feels very much like the Luke from the Thrawn trilogy and as he was seen in the Jedi Knight games.
I actually completely forgot that I did in fact play Battlefront 2 or that that game even had a single player campaign. Watching this I was kind of in disbelief while slowly remembering.
I just don’t understand why in 2024 we have yet to have an expansive open world Star Wars game where you can be… anything you want. Jedi, Sith, bounty hunter, smuggler whatever the hell you want. Have a character creator, give us the option to play as any of the aliens we’ve seen in the movies. I don’t care how expensive it would be to make, they would make that money back almost instantly if they delivered.
@@pemguim1120 Fair enough. However, you stated you don't understand how we still don't have a game with those criteria, to which I answered that such a game exists. You didn't specify anything about the gameplay.
@@remyfortuin7977 yeah the gameplay is trash but i love basically all of the stories. i haven't gotten the chance to play kotor as an adult, unfortunately, but i'd probably agree with you if i got the chance lol
This reminds me a lot of the Hays Code, this thing from the 1930s that basically served as a set of guidelines for movies on what they should and shouldn't show, some of it is reasonable, a lot of it isn't. Importantly number 1 under General Principles is "No picture shall be produced which will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin." Simply put don't make your Protagonists do anything immoral because you shouldn't make the audience cheer for someone who does bad things.
Just to clarify something Sheev, Operation Cinder first appeared in the Shattered Empire comics, I don't think it appeared in Aftermath though the game does use some events from those books too. Still dumb lore regardless.
I totally agree with your take on Battlefront 2. I think they had the perfect setup after that Luke Skywalker level by having the 3 squad members split to their respective beliefs. Iden being more traditional Imperial but sticking to the morally higher ground. Del having doubts and then splitting off to the Rebellion after getting more reasons to leave the Empire. Gideon going downward on the morality chart and becoming the splinter that transforms into the First Order. 3 perspectives that show the full spectrum of ideals and morality.
3:32 The overall plan even in Aftermath was more scorched earth for now and what followers I have deemed worthy is to randevou with the Eclipse in the Unknown Regions to rebuild. Ironically knowing about the clone and stuff that aspect of the plan made more sense just not why use Snoke and not yourself even if you can only talk in screens.
In general it's difficult to hold up a mirror to society without coming across as corny. Requires a lot of finesse, especially in gaming - as we see these days when fans can quickly spot when someone is using their platforms for cynical agenda for a quick buck. These days; real fans replaced by quick-insta-fame-fake-gurus. By people who, in past, called us 'losers' cuz we were gamers or loved Anime. I made a 'X360 as the last great generation' vid as a time capsule, not a prophecy... Amazing insight, as always.
@@donovan4222 tldr: Final Fantasy admitting "crono" triger and "dragon" quest are obsolete, pretentious, ugly and repetitive got a knee-jerk reaction so bad, but so bad... Well, the average AAA nowadays is a barren wasteland that is praised to high heavens if the microtransactions and game-breaking glitches "aren't too bad". But hey, what's truly important is that the snowflake of akira torimaggot doesn't feel "insulted" /s
@@donovan4222 Goddamnit youtube, can't I even point out how torimaggot's "cRoNo" trigger is holding the entire industry back? Sheesh, this whole platform showing its "pOwA lEbElZ" badly (aka facading its weakness as strenght)
I feel like every counterexample is just dismissed in this video. Like, Andor doesn't explore moral ambiguities? Sure it does. But that's, "oh, Disney weren't paying attention." I mean, they spent a quarter billion dollars on it. But they weren't "paying attention."
@@colemacgrath8513If I want my favorite restaurant to addd more variety in their food selection, say add a pizza when every other item is just the same burger with a different bun. But when they do add the pizza and it’s pure garbage why would I be happy about it? Also Acolyte doesn’t introduce moral complexity it’s a complete misunderstanding of the StarWars lore and its characters. And yeah, it’s shit why would anyone appreciate shit.
@@eliminator1472 Shitty comparison, also how does the Acolyte misunderstand the lore in a way that hinders the moral complexity? We are literally in the villain's POV that's moral complexity, so that's not a problem with Star Wars right now not to mention we literally got Dooku centric episodes of TOTJ that frame him as sympathetic.
@@colemacgrath8513 No actually I think my comparison is good, explain why it’s shitty. Jedi being framed as incompetent evil fools is lore breaking. Ki-adi Mundi being there is lore breaking for several reasons. The witches fabricating twins is lore breaking. Qimir existing as a Sith is lore breaking. There’s more but that’s all I can think of right now. “I’m good but bad now but good again and now I’m bad for no reason” is not moral completely. It’s moral stupidity. Osha becoming evil is stupid, her sister wanting to kill her for no reason is stupid. The Jedi being framed as the bad guys by the show is stupid. There is no “complexity” here it’s just characters doing what the writers want them to do no matter how STUPID it is. Dooku is a good character his TOTJ episodes were good. Not comparable because he’s an actual character and not just a muppet being controlled by the writers.
I didn't have a problem with Boba Fett cleaning up the streets, because I remember the OLD expanded universe Fett. The Fett from when there was little written about the man, so they put him in a few of the "Tales" anthology books to fill out his backstory... which then was completely retconned in to another character. But that Fett cared about law, order, and justice. He was more like The Punisher, a cop whose taken the law in to his own hands. He doesn't necessary like the Empire, in one of those Tales books he is hunting down a bounty on an Imperial and destroys an entire garrison on his own, but he will accept Imperial bounties because those are just as likely to be some murder or spice smuggler as a Rebel. Of course Disney won't make him as cool as that, so we ended up with the crime boss who commits no crime. "Evil exists; it is intelligence in the service of entropy. When the side of a mountain slides down to kill a village, it is not evil, for evil requires intent. Should a sentient being cause that landslide, there is evil; and requires Justice as a consequence, so that civilization can exist. There is no greater good than Justice..." -Jaster Mereel the "original" Boba Fett.
The thing with Mandalorian is that Din Djarin taking in Grogu isn't the problem. The problem is that it was done in episode 1 as the hook for the rest of the story. The first season should have been about setting up who Din Djarin is as he takes bounties, builds up a reputation, and assembles his arsenal. Then the finale of season 1 is what was the first episode. By then, you have established Din Djarin as an actual character, and his choice to spare Grogu now opens up what he can become beyond what he originally was and serves as a cliffhanger for a season two. But that would be a slow burn and Disney doesn't do slow burns. And because they pulled that trigger so soon, they don't actually know who Din Djarin is supposed to be without Grogu, which is why he's being forced back into his story.
So let me get this straight. We have a game titled Star Wars *Outlaws*, but you cant take part in actually BEING an outlaw by gunning random people down...?
A lot of people are mentioning The Acolyte but I wouldn’t exactly call that show “morally complex”. Morally confused, is more like it. To its credit, it does TRY to be complex but it fails spectacularly in creating a situation of moral greyness so I’m not sure we should be counting that
sheev is a third clone wars video still out of the question?
Well put. In the Acolyte Osha is not making a choice based on conflicting beliefs, she just decides Qimir (idk spelling) is worth following for reasons. Sure she learns Sol killed her mother but he did that while Anesaya looked to be consuming Mae as a smoke monster.
Similarly, Mae doesn’t decide to be good because of reflecting on her beliefs, it just kind of happens because she wants to be with Osha but then also agrees to forget Osha exists.
God that show was bad.
The Acolyte is ENTIRELY morally backwards, because it reflects the morality of the Marxists that wrote it. It's as simple as that.
Oh, and to note another example of this in Disney, see the Pinocchio remake wherein a core part of the story REQUIRES the characters to explicitly to be naughty. To be bad. However, Disney couldn't permit that, and so all of the characters clearly have permission to do mild things that they were specifically told to do, and then are punished for it, because Disney cannot comprehend actual morality and in so doing completely broke the movie. Attempting to relate to normal people just breaks their minds at this point.
Well, Jedi were good guys in that show, aside from green-face (you kinda is allowed one or two bad apples per movie). Osha is non character protagonist till last two episodes (which is an achievement in itself), her sister moral compass is more like moral fan with pointer in one of blades. Bad guy is bad, despite weak minded attempts to put his actions into grey area.
So, Disney movie.
to this day it baffles me that Disney made TWO star wars shows about bounty hunters, and between both of them, almost no bounty hunting actually takes place
Well both of them decide to quit bounty hunting for reasons so it's a weird complaint.
@@FlymanMS it was also Disney's choice to give the characters reasons to quit bounty hunting, when they really didn't have to. frankly if I were running either or both of the shows I'd try and give them as many reasons as possible to continue bounty hunting, not less. the bounty hunter going on bounty hunts was kinda the selling point of both shows, wasn't it?
@@FlymanMS hur duurrrrrr durrrr
if I make a movie about a carpenter but in the first ten minutes they quit being a carpenter, is it still a movie about being a carpenter?
@@boostar4763 clearly not. It would be about an ex-carpenter.
Interesting take Sheev, however I think there's something you fail to consider. In 1977, a Stormtrooper hit their head on a door, which means that Star Wars is forever goofy and does not require good storytelling, only goofy space wizards that do cool things sometimes. Moral complexity? Pffft! Much too boring, and not goofy enough, obviously.
A show can be both have good/deep storytelling but also be goofy
@@floatyjamit’s a joke
@@floatyjamjoke
😀
@@floatyjam Red vs Blue in a nutshell
@@floatyjam the joke >>>>>>
Your head
Imagine if the Outlaws devs let you gun down civilians and then you were arrested by *stormtroopers* for murder. Wouldn't that say a lot more about the morality of your actions than what they went with?
I don't think Disney actually care at all about morals, and certainly not about saying anything. They just view the games, movies, shows, etc as extensions of, and advertisements for, the theme parks which are their real money makers.
As advertisements they want to portray the world of Star Wars as kooky and exciting, but also wholesome, welcoming, safe, and inclusive. As extensions of the parks, they don't want them to depict antisocial behaviours for the practical reason that they don't want any increase to the risk of people behaving like that in Star Wars Land (i.e. the business robots in charge are terrified of any liability).
That's what I hoped and actually, 1% of me naively thought, would be possible in the game. I mean, come on, the Empire may be evil, but they wouldn't just let you murder innocent people just for fun and most Imperials would probably be pretty eager to kill or arrest you. I want the Empire from Andor; undeniably evil but not on such a carroonish scale. More reslistic, understandable and human. Instead, we get the 100% pure evil no-nuance-whatsoever Empire.
but that wouldnt be hecking wholesome, so even the criminals are now "pet parents" with personalities that fuse Ned Flanders' with that of a wealthy californian 30 year old
Honestly, just having Kay go against the Rebellion after the first betrayal instead of just magically forgiving and helping them would've been a massive improvement. [Though admittedly it would've deprived us of the hilarious scene where *Jabba the Hutt* announces he's helping the rebellion.]
@@floriansteininger347but the empire is cartoonishly evil. Two entirely separate versions had plans to basically eradicate worlds post the emperors death. They have super weapons that detonate Star systems. They enslave, they kill em mass commiting genocide…there’s a reason between legends and canon there’s literally only one guy who’s ever defected from the rebellion and he was a douche.
You know another regime a lot like the empire was comically evil and if we want to take the Japanese influcne of Star Wars they were literally looking to see who could skewer the most people on bayonets
Grievous is one of the characters that suffered the most of this obsession of NO GRAY CHARACTERS & NO POINT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MORALITY COMPASS
While Legends Grievous was no saint, there was a certain tragedy & an objectively true point in what he did.
He joined the Separatist movement because he had no other option to save his people, & his people were indangered BECAUSE of the corruption & unfariness of the republic, & while Grievous did a lot of reprehensible stuff, he was also an honorable warrior & always had a reason to do the things he did, he wanted to get his hand dirty so noneone of his people had to
The modern Grievous(letting aside he's a complete incompetent), is a mustache twerling cartoonish & unidimensional piece of evil who is only evil because why not
meanwhile gendy's grevious is a slasher movie villain for jedi
You can say the same about Count Dooku. By Attack of the Clones, he was trying to uproot the cause of corruption in the senate and destroy Palpatine. He even asked others to join him
Grievous hatred towards the Huk and the Republic who supported them was understandable, considering they set his world Kalee into ruin and poverty, because of deceptions of the Huk at the Senate.
Don't forget: Originally, Grievous was pretty much drafted into being a pawn of the Separatists. Dooku sabotaged his shuttle, and kept him alive long enough to play on his hatred for the jedi. Old Grevious was fully prepared to just, let go, prior to being baited into mechanical undeath by Dooku. New Grievous? Memory serves, that bad joke willingly became a cyborg, for power. And that man clearly got conned, because even the old LEGO Grievous is running combative and intellectual circles around him.
TCW ruined the clone wars, change my mind.
"Imagine a version of this game where Del is technically in the right morally but he's framed as an antagonist because you're playing as an imperial die-hard who feels she was betrayed"
That's actually the plot of Squadrons!
Star Wars should be an endless sandbox. Not a neighborhood.
So like Warhammer 40K
It used to be with the EU. It was great.
@@TheG.O.A.T.Zone60040K is even more limited than Star Wars. It’s all Space Marines all the time or GTFO.
@@kanki9718Long live the EU
@@samueltitone5683 The existence of Ciaphas Cain, Eisenhorn, Gaunts Ghosts, and Rogue Trader directly disproves your claim. And all that is off the top of my head.
When Boba Fett of all characters is aligned Lawful Good, you know something’s gone horribly wrong.
Exactly.
He was never an interesting character to begin with 😂😂😂
@@chasehedges6775 Complex. He was never a complex character. No sane person would ever call him 'not interesting'. Boba Fett was so interesting that they cloned him and put him in the prequels just to get more scenes like him.
A fucking bounty hunter is "lawful"
No. Boba Fett being a good guy is excellent…a solid redemption story.
George Lucas changed a scene that expertly introduced moral complexity through brilliant use of “show, don’t tell” to make Han look like more of a good guy, and fans didn’t like it.
Ubisoft unironically said “let’s do that, but for an entire game!” Then act surprised and shocked at the response.
Han's still explicitly a drug smuggler in that movie, and "spice" being drugs are Lucas's words, so Han doesn't come out squeaky clean regardless. Granted, the spice in question he dropped was almost certainly glitterstim, which isn't exactly the "hardest" substance to abuse in Star Wars, but still.
Exactly, the franchise STARTED OUT dipping the toes into moral ambiguity, and just hasn’t gone much further for the most part
Lucas changed it because people kept misunderstanding it. The point is that Han shot in self defence. If a guy is planning to kill you, it doesn’t matter if you shoot first, it’s self defence. This concept went over many people’s heads, as you’re supposed to understand Greedo from the outset does not intend to let Han live. But people interpreted that has Han murdering someone. So Lucas changed it.
@@ChaplainOfWar-m1k I didn't entirely remember why Lucas did it, but yeah, Greedo says "that's the idea" when Han says "over my dead body," all with a gun pointed at him.
Also, despite the who shot who discourse, I'm pretty sure before the special edition, you don't actually see anyone fire at all. In the novel, it doesn't really indicate more than one person shot, but like the film originally, what exactly happened is open to interpretation anyway.
@@1000g2g3g4g800999 It’s a Wild West kind of approach, and it’s the reason why a concept like The Mandalorian or a Solo Story _can_ work in the Star Wars universe, they just need the right kind of script. Something both lacked, arguably
Moral Complexity can also get VERY annoying and contrived when done constantly and done wrong. "Oh, I killed a Billion people because their king killed my sister, even though 99% of them had NOTHING to do with it!". Some of the best villains and heroes in fiction ARE complex, but the classic Hero and Villain thing has it's charm.
But yeah, a OUTLAW game where you CAN'T steal from non enemy citizens is just stupid.
Bad writing is bad, news at 11 LOL. We're getting both bad writing AND the same premise over and over with Disney Star Wars. They need to at least attempt variety if they want to keep pumping content.
@@HarabeckYeah.
That goes for fans that just want the EU made into films too.
@Lobsterwithinternet I would have watched a Abeloth force Mother trilogy, tweak some things around, and it would have been 1000% better than what Disney did in the end. A enemy that ISN'T Sith preserving the Anakin prophecy of killing them, a more mystical focus on the universe compared to the other trilogies, and can have New Republic/Rebels and Storm Troopers fighting together.
Yeah, I don't think that's moral complexity, really.
You can and often are extremely complex with black and white morality when you add in the motivations to cross the line, motivations for redemption, is it determined you will cross the line, etc.
Similarly, you can say basically nothing in a morally grey lense by having no lines. Every character has a thread guiding motivation and criss cross paths bump heads. It doesn't really have any complexity by default.
Tbh it is why a lot of the new sw stuff is rough. The Grey morality just doesn't feel like anything other than kayfabe for cheesy and simple gotcha drama moments
Bob iger and Kathleen Kennedy are sleeping together
Yep. I get flak for saying Andor is probably the best piece of Star Wars media put to screen because it shows the empire as more than Saturday morning cartoon villians. They're brutal, effective and sometimes surprisingly human and understandable. Cassian isn't some scoundrel with a heart of gold he's a scared man trying to survive in a brutal world and get as far away from the empire as possible.
Syril and Dedra also show how characters working within the empire can do evil things and still have sympathetic motivations. And Luthen is great because he shows that the rebels aren’t just squeaky clean good guys either, they have to make morally compromising choices and sacrifice.
Syril is the perfect example of a morally complex antagonist. While he is obsessive and overly ambitious, seeing imperial space cops get blasted away by Cassian and Luthen from the perspective of a low-level imperial loyalist was something I didn't know I needed. No wonder Syril believes Cassian is a terrorist. He's psychologically scarred by the attack and tortured by his failure that cost the lives of several of his men. His motivations are easy to understand and even sympathize with. The writing is just brilliant.
SW is such a big universe and disney is too afraid to explore anything that isnt copying episode 4
@@user-lg5xu6id5j
Disney made andor.
@@donovan4222
Dedras assistant is dope.
Dude is loyal.
"What else is there?"
"A choice."
"The rebellion?"
"No. A choice to be better."
This is the single best line of dialogue I've heard from Luke. I don't think anything comes close to encapsulating his philosophy.
The worst thing about the Disney acquisition, by far, is that this is Disney. This is it. They are not going to sell off Star Wars to any other company. They are not going bankrupt in the next 50 years. Star Wars is stuck with them. *This* is the new status quo for Star Wars. *Forever*
No more unique projects like Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars or The Force Unleashed. Mediocre, grey, reheated sloppy games and TV series for the rest of forever.
Imagine the future, and it's simply a blow of grey slop, for every meal, forever.
I still have no clue how Andor managed to get made
Disney's stock has dropped 50% in 2 years, and I have 0 sympathy from them
This is so depressing and it has made me completely stop watching all new Disney releases. I want to bankrupt them so badly. My fiancé is upset that I refuse to do a family trip to Disney World, but I just can't fathom giving them another cent.
@@Oppen1945 Yeah but they usually don’t give complete control over to people. It seemed like Disney didn’t try to interfere or water down anything…my guess is they didn’t think anyone would care about Andor
Mandalorians are the biggest example. They went from a people who didn’t flinch at torching half the outer rim in the mandalorian wars to “WhOleSome FReedOM fiGHTeRs wHo StaND uP agAinst tHe EmPIRe.” They have a sense of honor but that honor isn’t “do the right thing” it’s more about victory and glory.
I know this is kinda unrelated but I wish there was more none human mandalorians
I hate to break it to you, but that's the original depiction of the Mandalorians all the way back in the Marvel Comics. Bloodthirsty warmongers with only some ethics wasn't initially a thing until much later. Kotor didn't invent the Mandalorians, they only brought them into the public eye after the initial Marvel Comics and later Dark Horse Comics. Dark Horse Comics would later create the distinction of Death Watch and True Mandalorians, later known as the Mandalorian Protectors. The former claims to be traditional as they uphold the values of the Neo-crusaders of the Kotor games wheras True Mandalorians claims their traditional status by returning to the moral codes of the Crusaders like Rohlan Dyre from the Kotor comics.
@@Elitex62 In the empire strikes back novelization, Boba Fett is described as wearing a weapon covered armored space suit used by a group of “evil warriors”.
@@Elitex62 and, regardless of which depiction is older, I think the morally ambiguous depiction is more interesting and I hope they return to it.
Yeah, they should remain varied.
What’s crazy is Ubisoft supposedly thought this game was their Red Dead Redemption 2. Considering you cannot even hijack other vehicles or shoot while driving, they were far off the boat with that estimation.
Look forward to the video and thank you for making content. :)
Guessing you can't rob stores either.
Sounds lla lot like the Saints Row reboot.
I was expecting more or less gta but Star Wars, and we got a more disappointing kotor basically.
@@brandonbriggs8098 Except you're only allowed to be the good guy.
@@Lobsterwithinternet exactly, that’s why it’s more disappointing. Kotor wasn’t very open world (compared to modern games) but you still got to make choices that affected the ending of the story. In outlaws it’s like you said, only the good guys choices.
@@brandonbriggs8098 It's a very on the rails game. Anytime you try to do anything that the game does not want you to intend in a meaningful way(I stress meaningful because it's not players trying to break the game deliberately) the game punishes you. Did you know that if you have zero favorability across all the factions and you go into the final mission's cutscene, the game crashes. I kid you not. The developers never accounted for that at all. LOL.
The funny thing is Boba Fett going through a redemption arc works on paper. Unlike most Star Wars characters, he has a good reason to rethink his life choices after dying from his lifestyle. Plus, if handled right, we can see how the brutality of his choices is softened by finding the emotional connection he's lost since that's why he became a bounty hunter. The problem is that he starts as the same character he is by the end of the show.
Disney+ does a show about agatha but insted of making her the villain they make her the moral compass of the story because the actual conflict comes from wandas son wanting her back doing awfull thing to bring her back....
Meanwhile max does a penguin show where all he does is killing and lieing in a mob war so he can take over the tittle of Kingpim of gotham. Oh and he almost burry alive his aprentice to show him how cruel the world is. Make villains friggin villains!
Exactly
@@ParkerCS2And heroes fricking heroes
@@manuelfuica-martineau4940I'd rather not see the heroes frick anyone.
She doesn't seem that moral in the show from what I remember?
One of the first things she does is try to manipulate a bunch of witches to get their power.
@@erickamakeeaina1649 evil witches not GOOD witches.
Is like calling tom hardys venom evil just because he eats bad people but he let good people live. Or when Christian Bale batman said that he won't kill ras but "he won't save him"
Ethical loopholes are shitty writting
The old Boba would've allowed the drug business to flow so long as he got a piece of the action. Remember how in KOTOR 2, you can browbeat some slavers into giving you tribute money?
Boba is my favourite "Space Maori" And Temuera Morrison is perfect for the role!
EDIT : - And what happened to another favourite Maori of the Movies, Taika Waititi's Star Wars project? I heard that Disney made him an offer for a movie script and apparently he was still working on it as of early this year, but as far as I know there's nothing more said about it since then. That's a damn shame, as he's an incredibly talented man.
Yeah.
The story should have been about Boba learning to manage people and learning to not kill everyone.
Who wouldn't love to have seen Boba saved by an army of bounty hunters who knew Boba and wanted a place to retire to?
@@Lobsterwithinternet
Wow! The stories that you'd hear at the old cantina at that retirement village would have been epic.
Sit back, pull up a stool, and buy an old Space Pirate a 🍺 or two and then let him tell all about "way back in my day ...."
You are aware that the original trilogy there’s almost no complexity. Star Wars doesn’t allow complexity cause it’s always been black and white, good and evil. George Lucas said it. It’s black and white. There’s never a grey area in the franchise or grey Jedi. Blame George, Disney is just following his words.
@@damiantirado9616 George openly said that Han smuggled spice, which is drugs. Check your sources.
What really bothers me about Disney Star Wars is how it refuses to do unique projects. Every new movie, show or game (with just a couple exceptions) feels the same and there is very little nuance. Every Star Wars project tells a safe, family-friendly story designed to appeal to the widest masses of casual consumers. Every project is a lighthearted adventure. It's as if Disney had just one formula for Star Wars and refused to try anything new.
Star Wars is such a rich and limitless franchise, that it could easily accommodate a lot of different genres. Why not make a movie/game about Darth Vader on his quest to destroy the remainder of the Jedi order? Where is the Red Dead Redemption-style Star Wars game about a cold bounty hunter? Why can we not get a game where we play as a Sith???
And why is Disney so hellbent on NOT exploring different genres? Star Wars could be a political thriller about the machinations of the Republic Senate and Palpatine's schemes to create the Empire. It could be a war movie about clone troopers surviving through the toughest campaigns of the Clone Wars. Maybe we could get a spy movie/show about Rebels infiltrating the Empire to steal valuable information. Or imagine a high-budget Star Wars show in the style of Game of Thrones! A proper character-driven drama with palpable tension built on dialogues and character interactions.
But then that wouldn’t be Star Wars cause now they appealing to folks like Star Wars Theory who throws tantrums when shows like Andor get an Emmy nod.
They somewhat did that with the first season of The Mandalorian, which felt more like a Western set in Star Wars. And I think a big part of the appeal was the change in genre.
As for the Game of Thrones style show, it should be set during the Sith Empire. That I feel would work best.
@@cybertramon0012 primarily when exar was alive that would be interesting
Now that I think about it, I would LOVE a game like Assassin's creed Black Flag, except you play as General Grievous in his early days as a cyborg general for the Separatist alliance. Starting out as a warrior going out of his ways to hunt down the enemies of his people, and slowly becoming more of a mad war criminal ruthlessly murdering jedis and blowing up Venators.
The larger a corperation gets, generally the more risk averse their overall strategy will be. It's unfortunate but yeah, generally you'll stop seeing interesting things and just get sanded down porridge.
Being a "Moral" criminal is only impactful if: A, you are given the option to do immoral things and there are consequences for doing ether. Or B, the point in your story is that the character is morally good but has to navigate the underworld(option B really needs to be written well)
It’s kinda like if Tony Montana survived Scarface, it wouldn’t hit the same as him dying.
@konstantinosnikolakakis8125 Walter White is a good example, he has every opportunity to turn it around but he doesn't he well... breaks bad and dies because of it but if he didn't have an option of being good or bad then it wouldn't be interesting
This is why Persona 5 is the worst one.
@@TheeDawson Good point, Walter had an easy out at the very beginning when his old co-workers offered to pay for his treatment and he could've probably negotiated some money for his family as a favour if he would end up terminal as well.
However, Walter's greatest flaw is his pride and low self-esteem so he HAD to do it his own way, no matter how.
The first half of the Sopranos final season does the moral criminal thing pretty interestingly, showing just how hard it is to have a life fundamentally built upon malice and exploitation of others while trying to be a decent person. It’s actually quite interesting how in the Sopranos doing the right thing morally is almost always bad for criminal business.
Crazy that the Force Unleashed series were the last time a SW game truly delved into the duality of choosing between good and evil.
And that game is so old now too. At least fan games offee more
Also SWTOR. Highly underrated story imo
Loved that game
Even in that game you still end up on a lightside team. TFU 1 Darkside ending, Starkiller decides to betray the Emperor instead of killing Kota
I love TFU, but I’m not sure I’d hold it up as “morally complex.”
Star Wars is a fairy tale western-it’s always going to struggle at moral complexity, because it was always written to be morally unambiguous. The most “interesting” the morality was ever supposed to get was the good guys ostensibly “becoming” the bad guys during the Clone Wars.
What's really crazy is Warner bros and DC can do a penguin show where he happily sells drops (drugs) to many people and ruin their lives for his own gain as a mobster but Boba? Nah he's a kiddy version of what a "crime lord" would be
Cause Star Wars is for kids
Boba Fetts not even a crime lord in that show. Like, I actually can’t remember him committing a single crime, except maybe extortion, and even then, he doesn’t even bother to threaten the people who won’t pay him. He behaves more like a sheriff than a crime boss.
@@damiantirado9616 no it isn't. Star wars CAN be for kids, but I would hardly call it "for kids." Star wars can be for anyone
@@jknetwork6211 power rangers ahh crime lord
@@damiantirado9616 Was Andor for kids though?
The annoying part about Boba is that he also hated spice in Legends (due to his wife getting SAed by a man who was high on Spice) but it also pointed out why he worked for people like the Empire and Jabba. It addressed his hypocisy but he valued the order that Jabbas control had over the spice. And he even said he was hoping the Empire would eventually outlaw it. Its revealed in a conversation between himself and Leia when shes captured by Jabba and was sent to his room for the night. And he told her to take the bed as he lay on the floor, because he didnt want to force himself on a woman.
Plus, it also placed a light on Hans past as he was a spice runner.
It made Boba feel like a real character. He had values, flaws and contradictions but also throughlines in his way of thinking thay shows why he acts the way he does. He sees the Rebellion as chaos and wont last long, he likes the order the Empire has and takes Jabbas pay because the hutt is sending him after criminals. People also forget that a bounty hunter is a type of lawman. So Boba is neutral and is taking the jobs that lie in his own code.
Here, Boba doesnt have that personal connection to spice. He just gets rid of it because its right and because Mos Pelgo (no, i am not calling it fcking free town) asked. It doesnt line up with a code we know he lives by.
And the annoying thing is that the Legends books had fcking nothing to work with for Boba beyond a few lines. Yet they made him immensely interesting.
Disney not only had legends as a blueprint but they had what was then established in the prequels and even TCW. To delve into what lessons Boba was taught from Jango, Cad Bane and even his own life. To show us his own code. Yet they just made him do good things because its the good protagonist thing to do.
Its the same with Rey. She does good things because they are good. She isnt given the choice to choose them and grow her values.
I love how she slaps stormtroopers in the helmet and knocks them out! It’s so Kenobi of her!
It’s hilarious 😂😂😂
Makes me shocked the Stormtrooper who bonked his head in 1977 didn't instantly concuss himself.
It's actually a thing in Rogue One too. A fvcking stick knocks out people in armour.
@@pavelstaravoitau7106 A stick wielded by a blind force user tho.
@@chasehedges6775Chirrut isn't Force-sensitive, though, IIRC (if I recall correctly), he was guided by the Force.
The Penguin is what Boba Fett should’ve been.
Pretty much.
So was the Forces of Corruption campaign for Empire at War with Tyber Zann.
@@Lobsterwithinternet The Penguin is also kinda a third term that’s anti villain. Not a anti hero, but a villain with redeeming qualities and isn’t just a one dimensional pure evil guy. He’s more human and doesn’t just want power for the sake of it as he has people and things he cares about and he’s charismatic. Is anti villain a good term? Because idk about calling him a anti hero. 🤷♂️
@@ParkerCS2 more like you can make him a gangster who takes good care of his people. Gotham is full of vicious gangsters and mafia like the Maroni, Falcone, etc. Those gangs don’t care much about collateral damage. Not to mention all the other freak villains. You can make the Penguin as a guy who was insulted and made fun of for his physique, yet rise above that to become someone to be feared by his enemies and but a source of stability for those under his protection.
So, your typical protagonist gangster.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 exactly so my point is you can have an anti hero who’s likeable and a good character but not have to make him a good person. Tony Soprano, Walter White, are examples. Just be an old fashioned gangster protagonist.
Never thought I would hear those words and agree with them
Something that I don't think gets mentioned enough with the railroading of morality in the newer star wars games is that they make being a good person feel less rewarding too. Sure people can complain about not being able to hijack vehicles or shooting civilians and whatnot, but it also takes away from the feeling of pride I feel in myself I get when I choose not to do those things if you take away my choice to do so.
It really feels like Disney is afraid of facing scrutiny over making badass characters that do what they do because of self interest rather than "it's the right thing to do"
Ironic.
This is exactly why Andor beats all the other modern Star wars shows, it manages to write actual moral complexity and basically follows the ROTS quote perfectly
*There are heroes on both sides, evil is everywhere*
This is why I like playing through Star Wars The Old Republic, because you get to play your Jedi, Sith, mercs, and soldiers as either Republic or Empire.
And you can choose whether to make heroic or evil decisions (though your impact is not nearly as large due to the nature of the MMO).
Disney owns too much. They need to lose a lot of their purchases.
Imagine if a new law was passed that allowed a corporation to only hold a single big IP.... Imagine.
@@jakubrejak1114 exactly that would be great
The most important thing to note about the OT is that it’s specifically the Jedi vs Sith, where the whole point is that the Jedi are good and the Sith are evil. Everyone else, however…
In that trilogy, Luke is put into conflict between continuing his training and assisting his friends in peril. Han has to choose between his prior life and working for something greater than himself. Vader/Anakin has to choose between the Empire and his son.
@@DiamondKingStudioswe don’t know what benefit the empire has to Vader until the prequals essentially
Shatterpoint has entered the chat. Seriously, that whole book is moral complexity. Mace Windu watching a kid kill another kid with a broken knife. Disney wouldn't touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole
And that is why they fail.
That’s some Enders game shit
Even outside of star wars you have movies like venom or morbius that's taking villains and making them "heroes" that fight badder villains in their movies and I'm just kinda over that trope too, make the villain a villain in their movie
“We’re supposed to root for this guy?”
“Well, his opponent is worse, so you may as well.”
@@DiamondKingStudios literally
@@Ajs_Sandwich And I thought films were supposed to be a form of escapism… most people I know would describe politics like that.
@DiamondKingStudios movies now days either try to be overly pretentious or just shit on their fan base for not liking their "new direction" nothing is genuinely artistic anymore
@@Ajs_Sandwich *nothing from western entertainment, anyway.
The closest thing to a morally complex character you can play as in the new games is the Imperial character in Star Wars Squadrons. There's a mission where they willingly let you attack defenseless transports carrying civilian refugees as like a side objective.
That was a side objective? Lol
Exactly. In the dialogue too, the game tried to show the schism between the imperials, showing moral soldiers who believed what they were doing were right, war-damaged veterans who had nothing else but the empire, and hardcore fascists, the total worst of the worst. The game's writing is exceptionally good on the imperial side, and I wish that same level of moral care and complexity was given to the republic in that game, and that the game's writing got more credit.
This is great Sheeve
I think the prequels did moral complexity nicely. You had the core vs rim conflict, two sides that had their ideals corrupted but people who believed in them, and you had a democratic government that allowed itself to be turned into a dictatorship.
Except there was no moral complexity. The Jedi suck and the good parts of the cis are mostly head cannon as the actual movment was not real.
I think the prequels attempted to have moral complexity but generally failed to execute on it and just left people asking more questions. Like the rise of the Empire basically only happens because everyone in the Republic is being a stuck up idiot that never ever thought through the consequences of their actions and refused to deviate even slightly from whatever ideology they had. Now this could work if it was actually shown to be part of these people's character in a way where we could understand their actions as perhaps tragic but that's never done and instead we get characters like Yoda basically telling Anakin to stop being a bitch about his dead mother.
@@creed8712 only thing that doesn't really work is the jedi siding with the republic...All the CIS wanted was to leave the republic.....that's literally it but they couldn't. the republic didn't allow it.
unfortunately, it does a poor job at communicating this complexity. The good sides of the CIS aren't mentioned at ALL during the prequel films, and the jedi are portrayed as complete good guys, with no attempt at framing their actions as anything bad outside of dialogue, to a point where many people who don't pay attention to a few scenes and their confusing dialogue and exposition think the jedi were without flaw
Watching book of boba reminded me of a comic i read as a kid.
Boba is given a job to deal with some crime lords that are making this small tribes lives hell, they offer him pennies in value to what he is worth, insulted he was about to shoot the man who called him, then the man (paraphrasing) says
"You were the most feared smuggler, then you lost to Han, and then lost...again...and again...and again.. maybe this job isn't about money but, proving you are the ultimate bounty hunter"
Boba responds with yes, does a damn good job cleaning them up, he comes pack offers the man some parting comforts and then leaves, not even taking the credits.
I may remember some details wrong but that alone showed me more character for Boba then his entire show did.
you should've made the thumbnail say "NO SEX BEFORE MATRIMONY"
Or “Always eat your vegetables and remember to recycle!”
There’ll be NO pre-marital handholding on MY Christian Minecraft server!
@@Adorni “There will be no pre-marital hand-holding in my criminal organization!”
Jango fett taught his son right
*Charlie Morningstar approves*
To be fair, Boba killed spice dealers in legends for their trade.
That was also the version of Boba that told Leia the Empire was justified to blow up Alderaan, though.
(source: Tales of the Bounty Hunters)
Yeah meaning he was still the same character unlike Disney fett
See, with that though is it was in the complex code Boba lived by. He hated spice because his wife was raped by a spice user. And it's why he hates Han for being a spice runner. But he works for Jabba to at least keep some of it under control and he has a distant hope that the Empire will sort Jabbas spice trade out, which it has done a decent job by making it illegal (Han had to drop the spice because of imperial ships)
But thats his choice to make that distinction. Here, it's a choice made for him because he has to be "The Protagonist"
The whole “Boba Fett becoming a hero” angle was handled a lot more competently in Legends.
For those who don’t know, Boba Fett faded into the background for the better part of two decades of the Legends timeline. He didn’t play anything resembling a major role again until the Yuuzhan Vong War, when it was revealed that he was now the Mand’alor. Even then, he led Mandalorians in battles FOR the Vong, not turning his coat and aiding the New Republic until he realized that the Vong would inevitably betray the Mandalorians. After that, we don’t hear about him for another decade, when he’s dying due to a defect the cloning process had introduced into his genetics. It’s at this time we find out that he only became Mand’alor in the first place because (A) he was asked, (B) it was what Jango would have done, and (C) he was promised he could be a figurehead with zero responsibilities outside of wartime. It takes the death of his daughter and meeting his granddaughter to convince him to take honoring his father’s legacy as Mand’alor seriously. This is when he finally buckles down and starts thinking of the greater good of his people, making executive decisions and forging alliances that will restore the Mandalorians as a faction that the galaxy would respect.
I had hoped that this would be the past Djin Djarin’s story would take when he got the Darksaber - that he would need to mend bridges between all the fractured Mandalorian groups, despite being one of the fundamentalists whom all the other factions despise. I know this veered away from the gritty scoundrel story we were promised, but at least it would explore Star Wars through the lens of a faction that only cared about their own interests rather than the cosmic conflict. It could have led to some interesting conflicts, like maybe the Mandalorians getting a chance to increase their stake in the galaxy by helping the Imperial Remnant strike back at the New Republic, with Darin needing to balance the needs of his people against the knowledge of what the Empire would happily do to Grogu if they got a chance to steal Grogu back.
Mandalorians were supposed to be bad asses and bad guys. And yes Boba Fett was supposed to deal whatever passes for dope in SW. As some comments stated he just wouldn't sell it to children. And he would, at, the very least, tax any dealer in his turf not from his cartel. He worked for Jabba, who was someone vile even for the low standarts of the hutts. And for Vader too as well.
one of the reason I love the lego star wars games is because in the open world you can be an absoloute menace
If you look into Legends, Star wars has some really nuanced stuff. For example Darth Malgus had a wife that he genuinely loved. However due to him being a Sith he kept this hidden, but after a rival found out and tried to assassinate his wife but failed he realized his Wife was a weakness to him, so he killed her. Don't remember if this is part of the story or fan theory but he also killed his wife as a way to fuel himself with the pain and guilt of this since the dark side feeds off negative emotions.
Legends is such a painful name, might as well just call it the canon
@@PostCrisisRH Given the approach taken where "canon" just means "they're all just stories" to Filoni and it's supposed to be a mythology... I feel like they should have picked a different word.
When they try to write morally complex characters, they just make them irredeemable villains. When they write good guys, they don't explain why they are good and sometimes they are dangerously naive and kind.
Totally agree with your point about the villains. What’s the point of making us feel bad for the villains at all if they’re not going to be clearly shown to have any redeeming qualities? At this point, a tragic backstory on its own will never cut it again because they’re a dime a dozen.
As for the good guys, their only flaw is that “they care too much.” I guess that’s how you know it’s fiction since there’s no way you could get a job by saying something like that irl.
Do neither of you see the irony in the fact that Darth Vader was the face of redemption in the original Star Wars? That Luke saved him in spite of the fact that he was left to die at the end of Empire Strikes Back?
This is my problem with the fan constructed narrative around this franchise, it's presented as "objective." And now they spend time defending the prequels...
@@futurestoryteller That's not my point. You can redeem villains if you write them well, but they don't do that and often present them as correct when they are supposed to be villains...
@@Сайтамен I know that's not your point. That's the problem.
@@futurestoryteller I personally never actually saw the end of Darth Vader’s story as redemptive. He made one morally correct choice after years of being pure evil. It’s still a somewhat happy ending for him because he was able to finally find self mastery in the end and prove to Luke that there was still some goodness in him and that he was right to spare his father’s life. So the word I would use for that arc is closure, not redemption. The fact that the average Star Wars fan automatically sees his end as being “redemptive” is just another instance of the average fan of pretty much anything being reductive and missing the point.
Also, just so we’re absolutely clear, I’ll die before I defend the prequels. I can’t stand how the fandom menace is retroactively lipsticking that pig either.
TLDR: Andor was great because it felt real, and Boba's redemption should have been done by evolving his moral code of keeping his word.
Initially I was kinda "meh" on Andor. It didn't really grab me the same way Mando season 1 and most of season 2 did. But, like what has been echoed many times in the comments, Andor did a fantastic job of showing the actual administrative and judicial state of the Empire as much more complex and deep than just fascist jackboot comic book villains and their lackeys. DISCLAIMER: Yes, the empire is absolutely still a fascist dictatorship run by an evil space wizard that can shoot lightning out of his hands. What I'm talking about is the portrayal of people viewing the empire as a necessary evil in-universe. They lived through the corruption of the old republic, the chaos and terror of the clone wars, and then were told that the mystical order of lightsaber swinging force monks that operated above any local or galactic jurisdiction were behind it all. Of course there would be people eager to sign up to defend the empire. Of course there would be true believers that genuinely felt that the empire was a better alternative to lawlessness or corrupted cronyism. And on the other side of that coin, they weren't afraid the show the "whatever it takes" side of the rebellion. The people willing to lie, cheat, steal, bribe, and murder their way out of totalitarianism. The people that understood they likely would not live to see their cause triumph in the end but did it anyways, alongside the ones that just joined the rebellion for an easy way to smash and grab imperial resources for their own enrichment. In short, it was real. In a way that is missed when the story focuses on the never-ending conflict between jedi and sith. Boba Fett can 100% have a redemption arc, he can become a force for good in the universe, but it has to make sense. It can't just be "hey don't do that because that's mean and I don't like mean people anymore!" Boba spent his entire life surrounded and influenced by some of the worst characters in the galaxy, morally speaking. He had absolutely zero issue gunning down people that stood between him and a payday, and his moral compass was based around keeping his word. They could have used that in a much smarter way.
When you have a Game called "Outlaw", You'd Expect to turn your Main Character into a Anti-Hero.
Yup you're entire point about battlefront 2 is perfect, if there was ONE defector and you played BOTH sides, it would have added so much more ambiguity
Or maybe give them a choice to defect to the Rebels or stay Imperial at the halfway point.
Disney has no morals, let alone the talent to write complexity.
Funny that we did actually get what you’re wanting in the acolyte. But they just did it so poorly that Disney will now say “ we tried but it didn’t work”
There's always that one moral outlaw. Total A-hole but with a heart of gold.
So I’ve never played any of these games and the video does an amazing job at not making you feel like your missing any context despite never playing them which is awesome and I don’t have a clue how sheev managed to do that. Anyway here’s a summary:
The author criticizes Star Wars Outlaws for its restrictive morality and lack of player agency. They propose a revised story where the protagonist’s love interest defects to the Rebellion, creating a compelling conflict between the two characters. The author also expresses frustration with the lack of morally ambiguous protagonists in recent Star Wars games, contrasting them with older titles like Bounty Hunter.
Disney’s streaming shows often portray main characters as inherently good, limiting creative storytelling. The Book of Boba Fett deviates from the character’s original ruthless persona, raising questions about the purpose of giving him his own show. Despite the franchise’s history of simple good vs. evil conflicts, there is potential for more complex moral narratives in the Star Wars universe.
Boba Fett is a man on a job. He’s not good or evil he’s a man who does a job and gets paid and who you don’t want to cross or scam otherwise you’re his next target.
Squadrons managed to ignore operation cinder.
That was before Operation Cinder.
@@fulcrum6760
That never happend in my cannon.
It such a shame that Star Wars under Disney keeps feeling like it can have the ability to do something fun and different but won’t let itself actually branch out. It’s like planting different trees but somehow forcing them to grow the same way. I don’t have a problem of redemption stories but have them feel different and have different outcomes.
You perfectly vocalized the thoughts that were in my head ever since I watched the first few episodes of the Mandalorian.
Star Wars Outlaws: where you play an Outlaw who always follows the law
Brought to you by Disney
Makers of Book of Boba Fett about the Galaxy's greatest bounty hunter who doesn't do any bounty hunting.
I like how drugs are where Boba draws the line after incinerating lukes aunt and uncle
This is why most of the _Old Republic_ games' stuff is so GOATed in hindsight. Able to show the Jedi being flawed (I.e., screwing things up with Mandalore) without outright being evil like the Sith, and giving players the option to actually explore different moral routes. From honorable Jedi knights to scummy Sith betrayers, and the smuggles, bounty hunters, and normal dudes in between. Ironic that such old material has date graphics yet with great characters, themes and storytelling, while modern Star Wars has great visuals with garbage writing and no real effort.
If you were to go back and try to prove to early 2000's Star Wars fans that we would go from Revan and Kreia to Live-Action!Ahsoka and Osha, it would be understandable if they laughed you off and/or got justifiably pissed and disgusted with how things would turn out (besides Andor, sadly).
I would like it if we had more shows like Andor that push the boundaries on character complexity. I understand that Disney wants Disney+ to be a platform mainly for kids but there is possibility in the Star Wars franchise for being more then that.
10:36 Reminds me of a line from Black Dynomite: Black Dynamite:
I'm declaring war on anyone who sells drugs to the community.
Chocolate Giddy-Up:
But Black Dynamite! *I* sell drugs to the community!
If they want Boba Fett to be ruthless but also to fight against drugs in his own show, just give him a "don't sh*t where you eat" mentality.
13:32 I have to disagree. Star Wars is going to go to the way of the Western if they don’t right the ship immediately.
they took all the missing moral complexity and crammed all of it into one character, and thats how we got the GOAT Luthen.
I've never understood why in recent years the idea seems to have established itself that Star Wars is, basically, a product designed for little ones... when its story is based on the path of fall and redemption.
We can talk endlessly about how Lucas conveyed these themes, but it is undeniable that they are very present, themes that lead to greater complexity for the characters: just to stay with the original trilogy alone, Luke goes through trials that are anything but light on his journey to becoming a Jedi and, at the end of Return of the Jedi, he gambles everything, now aware that his father has definitively died and only Vader remains.
Just because there are teddy bears, puppets, actors in costumes and lightsabers doesn't mean that the important themes are automatically lost.
Because the people in charge and the loudest manchildren in the fandom associate Star Wars with their childhood. This has caused Star Wars to become infantilized as a children's allegorical story above anything else the series is or could be.
I'm still mad we never got the original Prey 2.
The complaint in this video is weird because it can also be a double edged sword. I recently watched many videos pointing out how nihilism has taken over media to the point that there is no triumph at the eyes of the audience and at the expense of having "moral ambiguity" or "grey" there is no more heroic people at Hollywood movies, and if there are, they get portrayed as extremely naive or stupid.
@@SwfanredLotr Moral complexity ≠ nihilism
A lack of moral complexity is baked into it from the start. Everything is archetypal, every character fits snuggly on an alignment chart. That is why Han must shoot first etc. it isn’t that it refuses, it can’t
Acolyte had 'moral complexity,' it was just horrifically played out.
The OT, maybe it was morally simple, but I’d argue that the PT, even before the Clone Wars series, presented moral complexity: the Jedi and Republic being powerless to stop slavery on Tatooine, Anakin, the Jedi becoming warriors instead of peacekeepers, Anakin, Count Dooku (kinda-ish), ANAKIN!
This is why I couldn’t watch rebels.
Every week every character murdered like dozens of imperial soldiers, who at that time are basically just the galactic cops, and not one of them, even the Jedi ever feel bad!
Remember when clone wars questioned if fighting the death watch was moral? And when Anakin kills that guy Obi Wan and Satine are arguing over it’s considered a morally grey moment?
Rebels like never does that.
It does with the Saw Gerrera stuff and Stormtroopers aren't space cops, their elite nazi soilders
I mean Rebels is also very clearly aimed at younger kids whereas The Clone Wars was aimed at the tween and teenager segment so I think complaining about this kinda thing is a bit silly. Did you really expect the show where the main character uses a slingshot as his primary weapon to have much moral complexity?
Star Wars bounty hunter is my preferred way to be an outlaw in Star Wars.
Here's my hot take about EA's Jedi games. I think Cal should have been defeated by Vader at the end of Fallen Order, and then turned into an Inquisitor. Narratively, it would make perfect sense. Cal has a rare ability of psychometry - listening to force echoes of the past - which would make him an ideal Inquisitor in the eyes of Vader. Such an ability would be invaluable when tracking the remaining Jedi.
I think this would be a brilliant plot twist that completely makes sense. Cal would replace 2nd Sister Trilla after defeating her and then be tasked with hunting down his old crew, as well as other Jedi. It would be such a cool inversion of the classic "bad guy redeems himself" trope. Cal, a well-meaning person, falls to the dark side because of torture and pain. He bit more than he could chew, thought he could defeat the Empire, but then ended up like other inquisitors before him. He's not the "chosen one", just another tragic character defeated by the Empire.
Gameplay-wise, making Cal an Inquisitor would open the door for cool dark side force powers like force choke, force rage or force lightning. And the combat could be way more brutal and satisfying.
And if devs really wanted to, they could eat the cake and keep it. Make Cal a conflicted dark side user and maybe give him a symbolic redemption arc at the end, before he dies. You know... like Vader in Episode 6.
Did they actually teach inquisitors force lightning and other cool dark-sighty things? I don't remember inquisitors ever using any cool powers. As far as I remember their force knowledge was pretty limited. Sith wouldn't allow them to have too much power so I don't see how it would be much more interesting then playing as a jedi.
@@ekaf1735 that’s the thing he could be a unique inquisitor among even inquisitors
@@QWONIE still inquisitor. which means nobody. They don't even have names. And no, Sith won't teach a guy with a number instead of a name to do force lightning and other cool stuff. So I still see no point in this.
@@ekaf1735 well sh1t. Then make Cal Vader's secret apprentice, to mirror the narrative of The Force Unleashed.
@@CinematicSeriesGaming yeah, It could be interesting but I feel like tfu fans would hate on it. But it could be fun to learn as a sith in this type of gameplay.
When they replaced the Kwa and Rakatans with the Zeffo I knew it was over. There used to be an underlying horror to the StarWars galaxy that is just gone
The Sequel Trilogy could've been good if Rey was written either as a deconstruction of Luke or as a criminal. They had the framework for it, a scavenger on an impoverished desert planet which could explain how she knew how to fly ships who never saw her family again. What would that kind of person really look like, what would she act like? She could've been someone focused primarily on money like Han Solo, this would make a potential turn towards the dark side believable since she would've already exhibited traits consustent with them. This would contrast the daredevil pilot of Poe, and the jaded ex-stormtrooper of Finn.
its all just half measures to protect the brand. people want complex stories but disney is scared to sell complex characters as toys. this means they can never have the confidence to tell the bold stories in the romantic tradition that made star wars great in the first place nor can they tell the morally complex stories that people want and that the brand needs to grow
Andor did Moral Complexity very well particularly with Luthen's character.
Commenting paused at 9:42 so sorry if you mention this, but I think Deadpool 3 shined a light on what we already suspected. Kevin Feige said the main characters couldn't use or even talk about using illicit substances in a positive light, except to joke about how they couldn't talk about it because Kevin Feige said no. They mentioned him by name as the reason why they couldn't even talk about it euphemistically.
It's really no surprise that when it comes to SWTOR the Imperial servers are always more populated than the Republic ones, and yes I know we're talking about a different Empire. However, my point still stands that it's one of the few times you can play as the bad people in The Empire from beginning to end.
And even when you do, the light side choices are often not even the goody goody ones, but simply the most pragmatic choice to make in a given situation. You can be a psychotic dick if you want to, but most of the time it doesn't make a lot of sense and actually makes things worse for you and everyone else. The Empire is just way more interesting, because that dynamic is a lot less pronounced for the Republic, where making dark side choices utterly breaks your immersion because none of the NPCs around you who are trying to fight the good fight should put up with it.
The Luke in these scenes feels like he came through a dimensional rift from the old EU and vanished immediately after the scene ended again. Feels very much like the Luke from the Thrawn trilogy and as he was seen in the Jedi Knight games.
A bg3 type Star Wars game I think would be really cool. Really complex story and decision trees with interesting combat and good characters
Man, that would be great. 40K Rogue Trader showed that a sci-fi crpg can totally work well.
I actually completely forgot that I did in fact play Battlefront 2 or that that game even had a single player campaign. Watching this I was kind of in disbelief while slowly remembering.
I just don’t understand why in 2024 we have yet to have an expansive open world Star Wars game where you can be… anything you want. Jedi, Sith, bounty hunter, smuggler whatever the hell you want. Have a character creator, give us the option to play as any of the aliens we’ve seen in the movies. I don’t care how expensive it would be to make, they would make that money back almost instantly if they delivered.
You... just described Star Wars: The Old Repblic. SWTOR is exactly that, and it's amazing.
@@olafgurke4699 not everyone likes MMOs though
@@pemguim1120 Fair enough. However, you stated you don't understand how we still don't have a game with those criteria, to which I answered that such a game exists. You didn't specify anything about the gameplay.
10:25 honestly I can’t really see Boba as a drug dealer, but I can see him as an illegal arms dealer
Making me want to play SWTOR again.
I like SWTOR's story (The Imperial Agent Campaign is GOATED), but the gameplay is mid, and a downgrade compared to the KOTOR games.
@@remyfortuin7977 yeah the gameplay is trash but i love basically all of the stories. i haven't gotten the chance to play kotor as an adult, unfortunately, but i'd probably agree with you if i got the chance lol
This reminds me a lot of the Hays Code, this thing from the 1930s that basically served as a set of guidelines for movies on what they should and shouldn't show, some of it is reasonable, a lot of it isn't. Importantly number 1 under General Principles is "No picture shall be produced which will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin." Simply put don't make your Protagonists do anything immoral because you shouldn't make the audience cheer for someone who does bad things.
2:15 - It's a trend with disney wars stuff, TFA trailer heavily implies we get a bad guy mook becoming a jedi
What we got was "REEEEEYY!!!11one"
Time to go back to the old republic, when I can choose to be such an asshole even Palpatine would ask to slow down
Just to clarify something Sheev, Operation Cinder first appeared in the Shattered Empire comics, I don't think it appeared in Aftermath though the game does use some events from those books too. Still dumb lore regardless.
I totally agree with your take on Battlefront 2. I think they had the perfect setup after that Luke Skywalker level by having the 3 squad members split to their respective beliefs. Iden being more traditional Imperial but sticking to the morally higher ground. Del having doubts and then splitting off to the Rebellion after getting more reasons to leave the Empire. Gideon going downward on the morality chart and becoming the splinter that transforms into the First Order. 3 perspectives that show the full spectrum of ideals and morality.
3:32 The overall plan even in Aftermath was more scorched earth for now and what followers I have deemed worthy is to randevou with the Eclipse in the Unknown Regions to rebuild. Ironically knowing about the clone and stuff that aspect of the plan made more sense just not why use Snoke and not yourself even if you can only talk in screens.
Still a stupid plan, taking everything into context.
Only works because the New Republic was comedically incompetent.
Now I really want to play your proposed version of Battlefront II
In general it's difficult to hold up a mirror to society without coming across as corny. Requires a lot of finesse, especially in gaming - as we see these days when fans can quickly spot when someone is using their platforms for cynical agenda for a quick buck. These days; real fans replaced by quick-insta-fame-fake-gurus. By people who, in past, called us 'losers' cuz we were gamers or loved Anime. I made a 'X360 as the last great generation' vid as a time capsule, not a prophecy... Amazing insight, as always.
I have no idea what your comment is trying to say but speak your truth buddy
@@donovan4222 tldr: Final Fantasy admitting "crono" triger and "dragon" quest are obsolete, pretentious, ugly and repetitive got a knee-jerk reaction so bad, but so bad...
Well, the average AAA nowadays is a barren wasteland that is praised to high heavens if the microtransactions and game-breaking glitches "aren't too bad".
But hey, what's truly important is that the snowflake of akira torimaggot doesn't feel "insulted" /s
@@donovan4222 Goddamnit youtube, can't I even point out how torimaggot's "cRoNo" trigger is holding the entire industry back?
Sheesh, this whole platform showing its "pOwA lEbElZ" badly (aka facading its weakness as strenght)
Thank you for another great, and entertaining video!
I feel like every counterexample is just dismissed in this video. Like, Andor doesn't explore moral ambiguities? Sure it does. But that's, "oh, Disney weren't paying attention."
I mean, they spent a quarter billion dollars on it. But they weren't "paying attention."
Also when Acolyte does it, literally having the Sith be protagonists "Oh but that show is bad so it doesn't exist"
@@colemacgrath8513If I want my favorite restaurant to addd more variety in their food selection, say add a pizza when every other item is just the same burger with a different bun. But when they do add the pizza and it’s pure garbage why would I be happy about it?
Also Acolyte doesn’t introduce moral complexity it’s a complete misunderstanding of the StarWars lore and its characters. And yeah, it’s shit why would anyone appreciate shit.
@@eliminator1472 Shitty comparison, also how does the Acolyte misunderstand the lore in a way that hinders the moral complexity? We are literally in the villain's POV that's moral complexity, so that's not a problem with Star Wars right now not to mention we literally got Dooku centric episodes of TOTJ that frame him as sympathetic.
@@colemacgrath8513 No actually I think my comparison is good, explain why it’s shitty.
Jedi being framed as incompetent evil fools is lore breaking. Ki-adi Mundi being there is lore breaking for several reasons. The witches fabricating twins is lore breaking. Qimir existing as a Sith is lore breaking. There’s more but that’s all I can think of right now.
“I’m good but bad now but good again and now I’m bad for no reason” is not moral completely. It’s moral stupidity. Osha becoming evil is stupid, her sister wanting to kill her for no reason is stupid. The Jedi being framed as the bad guys by the show is stupid. There is no “complexity” here it’s just characters doing what the writers want them to do no matter how STUPID it is.
Dooku is a good character his TOTJ episodes were good. Not comparable because he’s an actual character and not just a muppet being controlled by the writers.
I didn't have a problem with Boba Fett cleaning up the streets, because I remember the OLD expanded universe Fett. The Fett from when there was little written about the man, so they put him in a few of the "Tales" anthology books to fill out his backstory... which then was completely retconned in to another character. But that Fett cared about law, order, and justice. He was more like The Punisher, a cop whose taken the law in to his own hands. He doesn't necessary like the Empire, in one of those Tales books he is hunting down a bounty on an Imperial and destroys an entire garrison on his own, but he will accept Imperial bounties because those are just as likely to be some murder or spice smuggler as a Rebel. Of course Disney won't make him as cool as that, so we ended up with the crime boss who commits no crime.
"Evil exists; it is intelligence in the service of entropy. When the side of a mountain slides down to kill a village, it is not evil, for evil requires intent. Should a sentient being cause that landslide, there is evil; and requires Justice as a consequence, so that civilization can exist.
There is no greater good than Justice..." -Jaster Mereel the "original" Boba Fett.
"Evil is intelligence in the service of entropy" kinda goes hard
So he was Peacekeeper?
Disney can’t allow anti heroes and also villain protagonists. They are too scared.
What we wanted: Star Wars GTA
What we got: Assassin's Creed with a Star Wars skin
If you check at 0:19, you'll find a particular channel in Andrew's live chat. 😉
I recognise none of these channels
@@YodaOnABender He's referring to himself.
The thing with Mandalorian is that Din Djarin taking in Grogu isn't the problem. The problem is that it was done in episode 1 as the hook for the rest of the story. The first season should have been about setting up who Din Djarin is as he takes bounties, builds up a reputation, and assembles his arsenal. Then the finale of season 1 is what was the first episode. By then, you have established Din Djarin as an actual character, and his choice to spare Grogu now opens up what he can become beyond what he originally was and serves as a cliffhanger for a season two. But that would be a slow burn and Disney doesn't do slow burns. And because they pulled that trigger so soon, they don't actually know who Din Djarin is supposed to be without Grogu, which is why he's being forced back into his story.
So let me get this straight. We have a game titled Star Wars *Outlaws*, but you cant take part in actually BEING an outlaw by gunning random people down...?