MSI will be publicly rolling out a series of BIOS updates next week to address the performance issues seen in this video. When using memory clocked below DDR5-6050 they will default to a 1:1 ratio.
@@madinimeWhy would they? They are journalists, financial relationships (apart from straight advertising alongside the journalistic content) with the entities they cover would compromise their integrity and objectivity. They trade on the trust of their audience, not consulting.
@@vRackham devs who find bugs get paid, so what the fuck are you talking about, he should get paid just like devs who find bugs and get paid by tech companies
I would love to see a comparison with B650 boards. They'll most likely be more popular as they are cheaper and companies may not want to spend as much time and effort into these cheaper models.
Depends. A b650 board will of course be made simper/cheaper, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they get less development resources. Keep in mind the mid and low range chipset boards tend to outsell the high end ones by usualy double digit factors. Even of x670s justify higher investments per board, the msssiveöy igher sales volume mames that irrelevant
Yea I think we all want to see the B650 boards tested! I went with a B650 this gen, which isn't something I normally do - but the cost of high end boards (600 cdn) and the further irrelevance of overclocking made the decision for me. I've been happy with my Aorus B650(AFTER I installed the latest bios, out of the box it was choking my 4080 for some reason) but I'd love to see comprehensive benchmarks.
He said he has tested 22 MBs, so I'm assuming those comparisons have been done, and next week we'll see the results! :D I'm also looking forward to seeing those comparisons. I'm impatiently waiting to build an AM5 system once the 7000X3D CPUs release, and my main use for the system will be gaming, therefore, I want to get the cheapest yet best performing board I can.
Yeah I am interested in seeing how B650/B650E perform, for my R9 3900X I went with X570 as at the time (pre B550) it was the only way to get PCIe Gen4 for M.2 storage for my Hobby Editing PC but I think when I make my next upgrade to a R9 7900 I think the B650/B650E will be all I need.
Yea. I had a bit of a horror story on the go, I bought a 7600x and a aorus 650 mobo to go with my 4080, and for 2 weeks my FPS in games seemed low - but it was still playable. It was maddening, because I'd watch a video of a 3090ti/5800x combo edge my FPS, and not know if I just lost the silicone lottery badly or something. So I was trying all sorts of stuff, and then finally noticed my mobo was on 1.0 bios. So I patched it to the latest version - instantly everything was fixed. My FPS went up 50%. My timespy went from below average to far above average for my hardware. I have no idea why those factory mobo bios were choking my 4080 like that.
Genuinely a good video. Just the other day i was thinking how i rarely see motherboard performance compared anymore. This used to be more of a thing many years ago where you'd see comparisons on tech sites pretty often. This video shows why it's important.
@@Hardwareunboxedplease, please, do it with some 5600mhz rams because most of ppl buying b650 are buying 5200-5600mhz rams imho. thank you for your work!
@ Funnily enough your argument could be applied to yourself as well. Also DDR5 pricing varies from region to region so while the price of ddr5 6000 compared to 5xxx might be the same in your place, it might differ from others.
I'd really like a guide at somepoint going over some of the motherboard quirks when it comes to PCIE lanes, and what changes depending on what you populate. E.G. a 2nd x16 slot if populated goes down to x8 speed along with the 1st x16 slot, some SATA ports become disabled if all M.2 slots are used etc. and so on. As even manufacturer websites are unclear about these things, and it can be easy buying something that doesn't end up meeting expectations.
And so it has begun... Finally the AM5 motherboard content has arrived. I was holding out for this advise. There is no other channel I trust more when it comes to this type of content. As I buy a computer every 7-8 years I cannot get this wrong! (currently using a Sandy-Bridge-e and it is very very tired - lol) These vids are going straight into the already created AM5 playlist that I will use for buying my next setup..., and I will of course use the afiliation links to do so. Can't wait for the X3D variants to press all the buy-buttons.
@@ksks6802 It's really not the same scenario as an intel chip, because the x3d cores will be the fastest gaming cpu core in the world while the non x3d cores will be what, what is currently the 2nd fastest gaming cpu in the world. There will not be a massive performance swing like with an intel chip if something runs on the wrong cores, you might drop from say 240 fps to 200 fps, you can always manually core pin too with applications that you need to run on the 3d cores, or you may have an app that benefits from higher frequency which can be pinned to the non x3d core. Intel e cores are like a core 2 duo core, basically worthless for anything but accelerating benchmarks.
@@PineyJustice wasn't really trying to go into all that. I trust people to make their own decisions. Say what you will about Intels current stack, but its offerings (watching all the new stuff happen with a 3700x) has made amd either cut prices or release new skus with eco mode enabled. Unfortunately I have to pay attention to this stuff to future proof. Itll be interesting for sure.
This generates a problem since pursuing that 10% mobo makers pursue unhealthy default settings that shortens the lifespan of components and generates instability.
Thanks for taking the time to contact the manufacturer and press them for improvements. I have the ASRock Lightning board and I've used the "Aggressive" memory tuning setting in conjunction with the EXPO settings with no issue. Might be something to benchmark if you're curious or maybe ASRock can make those timings the standard.
I'd love to know if this has all been balanced out now with BIOS / AGESA updates. These HUB early roundups for both X670 and B650 showed significant performance differences and I think it's important, as a gamer, to know whether these gaps have been fixed now. Considering how much we spend on CPU/GPU for every possible performance gain it seems silly that motherboard selection can make such a difference.
@@raynefear As currently, i would go for Gigabyte Mobo. But Asrock is looking better and better through the years. Never buy Asus again. I bought Asus in the past. Bios is way to hard to work with. Gigabyte was so simple.
@@darthpaulx Yeah ASUS really dropped it hard on AM5. I'm stuck between ($CAD prices) $170 ASRock B650M RS Pro Wifi or $270 boards like the MSI B650 Tomahawk or Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX... though on these benchmarks they look great, every Gigabyte board I look at has lots of reviews complaining about bad coil whine. I would rather spend less, but not if that $100 difference means a 10% performance loss since I can't find any evidence at all that these performance gaps have been fixed by BIOS updates.
Got the same Which bios version are you using? Mine only runs with version 2 stable with 6000 cl30 ram. All other versions did only reboot on jedec standart… How lobg does yours take to coldboot?
@@n0pe_7 With zen 4, it seems the CPUs are and will remain the problem regarding the memory (even after bios fixes), they're the reason you can't go to 6800+, while on intel it's possible, so probably in the future with new CPUs it will be possible to get more out of these MBs.
@@xtrwq yeah but with the oldest and the newest bios even 5200 cl40 was unstable. Now it at least runs at 6000 cl30. But am5 has still extremely long post abd boot times. Some people have to wait over 1 -2 minutes For me its 40 seconds
@@n0pe_7 There are MBs where there's a option in the bios to skip memory training at startup (maybe all have it?) and it should speed that up. Not sure why it's not set on as default for all cases expect when changes have been made. I also want to get an asrock x670e RS PRO and I hope the startup isn't worse than my very old haswell system.
been waiting for a video like this so i have a better idea of which board to upgrade to. thanks a ton for all the hard work and really looking forward to the roundup!
I definitely appreciate this content. I ended up going for the Asrock B650E Steel Legend for my AM5 rig and it’s the first time I’ve had an Asrock board for a very long time. Your results are reassuring that they are a solid (if sometimes basic) choice when compared to peers, I had held a perception that they were a tier below the asus/gigabyte/Msi group.
Got a 7700x with trident z 2x16 6000 cl30 on an Asrock b650e pg-itx wifi replacing my old itx system which is a 3100 with tforce delta rgb 2x8 3000 cl16 on a Gigabyte b550i aorus pro ax. The same config was on an Asus prime b350-plus before switching to itx. Man I have to say in terms of build quality I was really impressed by both asrock and gigabyte - I would say both mobos are on par. In terms of software tools gigabyte was the worst for me though. I was generally very disappointed with the asus board. It worked fine and I even still have it, but it is built as cheap as possible. It is probably not a fair comparison as it is a low end board but still I was expecting more.
AsRock is always placed 4th for a reason. BIOS is still not at the level of the 3 others, often lacking both polish and functionalities. But if you can make this compromise, the brand is renowned to provide quite interesting designs and is historically more budget oriented.
Would like to see a comparison between more expensive b650 boards and ''cheap'' x670 boards considering they can be even more expensive than the boards tested here.
YAY! It's VRM Thermals time again! I've been waiting for AM5 board testing for so long. No one else seems to be interested in doing motherboard testing like you do it.
It has been 5 months did the MSI PRO X670-P take care of the bios? Love all your reviews thats what I go by for buying pc parts I started with tomahawk b450 and have watched you since.
Loving the memory timing break down, it would be a consideration for myself and others I recommend to, to select the most aggressively timed board from XOC/XMP whatever its called now Xbow. I'm sure I'm just another voice in the choir here but it all adds up.
The ones he shows are Expo but still fairly conservative. My Asus B650e-f (I assume all Strix boards) have some presets for each memory manufacturer and they are even better (in fact, XMP would not work for me and I used presets which increased memory voltages too which needed)
Awesome. I am going to build a new computer with the 7800X3D when it releases, so this is great timing. I have it all worked out but the motherboard and RAM.
@Insane Justice Oh I'm sure I will! I have a computer on life support from 10 years ago, with an Intel 3470 as the processor. It has survived some catastrophes along the way, and for the last 4 years it has run on one 4gb 1866MHz stick. I've been really, really patient with upgrading. And now its finally time.
You didn't really need to make this video, I could have told you that the Gigabyte X670 Gaming X AX would be the best. It has more X's in the name and GN already scientifically proved that performance scales linearly with the quantity of X's in the product name. Seriously though, thanks for the video, great info.
Good start of the motherboards series, finally someone is doing it. So odd all the big tech guys were skipping the head to head comparisons for motherboards. Specially now motherboards have 2x and 3x prices, Gamers would like to know where the golden nuggets are.
I think the golden nuggets will be had in the B650 lineup. But as we've seen in the past, there will be some really shitty cheap boards not really capable of full TDP operation.
Though my plan is to skip this Generation, I still like to stay updated on the latest and Greatest ( or not so great! LOL) so I appreciate all the work you put in here Steve! Always look forward to any CPU, GPU and Motherboard Roundups you post! Cheers!
I'm building two B650 systems but waiting keenly on more coverage. Love that you go in to detail on the VRMs etc., this is the level of content we really need.
Wow, that is impressive. I am running RG Lightning board myself. Will look at those timings then. I must note that ASRock offer "performance" and "aggressive" settings instead of AGESA defaults for EXPO overclock. Need to check if there's any difference in subtimings.
The MSI B650 Tomahawk WIFI has the same issue, i checked mine and it's running the uclk at 1500 with 6000 memory. Did the manual running to get it to where it should be. No gaming difference for me though since i'm heavily GPU bottlenecked currently , but it just felt weird to not address this setting. Thank you for pointing out the issue.
Not too surprising, Gigabyte has always been a solid board maker for me, maybe not as flashy, but always just work. Heck im running a 5800x3D without a problem on a Gigabyte ab350 gaming 3 board that I recall everyone saying when it first came out "it will never be able to handle a high end 8 core cpu, you will want to get a x370 for that."
Great work Steve - your recommendations are insightful and you present the facts with imparitallity. As I am currently looking to upgrade, your 20 board review will be looked at with interest. My focus is keeping down the thermals for a air cooled rig which of course affects how much power all components use.
yay! my friend has been waiting for the OFFICIAL b650 round up before bagging am5 ...previous b550 x570 & z590 HU roundups have been instrumental in our purchases .
EU prices are pretty wild for those motherboard Asrock X670E PG Lightning 350€ Gigabyte X670 Gaming X 340€ MSI Pro X670-P Wifi 380€ Asus Prime X670-P Wifi 370€ The cheapest B650 starts at 200€ switching to AM5 is pretty costly.
Gigabyte has been putting out some good MBs the last few generations. Love their b550 aorus boards. I still remember when gigabyte was coming up and i always avoided their MBs. Great video, cheers!
I'm thinking of upgrading from my gaming laptop to a desktop tower in march and had already decided to go for AM5, so videos like this one are extremely helpful towards what is going to be my final build. Thank you guys so much for all the work that you do , regards from Chile.
great catch, now please test B650 boards as well coz i definetly feel like my system with B650 board and 7700x is underperforming in gaming, B650E Strix E
the issue of vrm is you just have to trust them that they arnt lying. like what is 16+2+1 twin digital vrm, just screams scam. i remember 8 being good if true, so 19 vrms for a 260usd board seems like they are lying.
I've been waiting for the AM5 motherboard reviews, since I'm pretty likely to buy an 7800X3D after the reviews are out for it. Thanks for the content, and I look forward to the rest of your motherboard reviews too!
Can't wait to see more AM5 Motherboard Content, this X670 Budget Comparison had very surprising results I must say. This makes me very curious about how the B650 and more expensive X670/X670E Boards perform
Glad to you're reporting on the memory as when I saw the secondary timings my Asus b650e-e loaded they looked ridiculously loose and I wasn't at first sure if they were decent and just a DDR5 characteristic or not. After spending a few days learning and tuning the timings myself, my read and write speeds have jumped over 25% and latency is 23% less than the default timings and this is at stock voltages. I’m sure a bit more could be extracted with a little extra voltage but I’m really happy with my results. I think AIDA64 or some other memory benchmarks should be ran in the future so we can see the bandwidth and latency differences for each board at stock settings.
Hoping that the AM5 socket will be around for some time, it makes sense to me to go for the Asrock X670E model, PCIe 5.0 support for the GPU will make a difference in the future with games requiring more and more to move such massive amounts of texture data. It does have some basic LED indication for troubleshooting, not a 7-segment display, but enough to indicate if the issue is the CPU, RAM, GPU or storage. The sound card is basic, but I prefer not to waste money there as I use an external DAC. Same for WiFi, you can add it, no need to waste money on it if you don't need it, and, anyway, it's still a competitive price if you buy a key-e wifi module. I just wish all the RGB BS was also removed from the board, and invest that money in adding a dual PS/2 port. Also the on-board display output is electronic waste and it doesn't make any sense in an ATX X670E board, it will only cause problems to inexperienced customers plugging the monitor in the wrong port.
The DRAM timings show how important some secondary timings are. Especially tRC, Trfc1 and Twr which are typically set to very conservative values to avoid instability.
Thanks! I think B650E (PCI-e 5 support). For instance the Asus B650E-F are more affordable in EU and a more interesting product in the "cheap" category. Would be interesting to see how it performs.
My MSI B650 ITX board just arrived yesterday, this is definitely good to know so I can check on that. Also nice to see Gigabyte really does put in a lot of extra effort for their premium products
I purchased the PG Lightning back at launch. I knew this testing was coming but I had to take the risk, my i7-3770 wasn't getting any younger. I'm glad it worked out, and glad you guys did the testing so that I don't have to wonder. I will say using this board is a little more difficult than boards in the past. Why they put stickers that gum up your ram slots is beyond me. Not having the Q code led really sucks too. Still though, at the time alot of the mobos we're in the 500's and I needed something immediately, so this ~250 board made sense.
Honestly, I'd probably choose the ASRock. The Gigabyte only stood out because of tighter RAM timings that can be set in the BIOS or with an BIOS update. The ASRock is an X670E board that's less expensive than the X670 boards from the other brands. I've had several ASRock boards in the past and I've never had one fail on me. My two main AM4 boards are the ASRock X370 Killer SLI and the X570 Pro4. They've both been rock-solid for me and while I know that Gigabyte offers a three-year warranty, I've never needed to RMA an ASRock board. I've never needed to RMA a Gigabyte board either but that only makes then tied. I'll never buy an MSi motherboard again after my K9A2 Platinum failed so that's out and I find that ASUS isn't nearly as good as it used to be. I know you hate them Steve but IMO, ASRock is definitely the winner here. It offers something that none of the others do and it costs less. That's a win, period.
I know this may be a lot to ask for, but would you consider doing a similar motherboard performance comparison video, but for the 3D CPU lineup? I just built a system on the Gaming AX with a 7800X3D and the performance seems to be beyond any expectations. This makes me believe that there may be even more discrepancies between boards on the same chipset. Cheers.
I'd like to believe some performance engineer in Gigabyte actively advocates that memory timing tuning is one of the last bastions they can squeeze out a competitive edge, and in turn is why they provide Buildzoid with a good set of samples, and is why we have these results. The remaining problem is that RAM brands don't advertise the most important set of subtimings (or the full XMP/EXPO profile) on their kits, and only primaries.
I'm typing this while watching the introductions of the boards and I gotta say, when it comes to labeling the usb ports, I really like the Asrock aproach to include the speed on every port for I have no clue anymore what connection of the USB standard is fast and what's not!
Best motherboard reviews anywhere, such a valuable resource - Looking forward to the rest of the series! Love what you do, thanks for the terrific work you put into these Steve!
Got myself Gigabyte X670 Gaming X AX on Black Friday, and unfortunately I experience some issues with memory overclocking. Not sure if it's the motherboard, memory, processor or PSU fault, since I don't have spare components to test. Basically, when I'm trying to run it at 6000 MHz, the system runs very stable, but as soon as I restart it, it doesn't boot until I reapply the settings in the BIOS, which is incredibly inconvenient. Even AMD EXPO profile at 5600 MHz still has some issues. Hopefully the BIOS update will fix it, since there are no other issues.
Looks like in Europe, that Gigabyte board is also the cheapest X670 Board (by far if you don't mind mail-in-rebates), so I would say that is a no-brainer based on this testing.
great work, I love your motherboards videos , not many channels make them, I'm interested in the ASRock X670E Steel Legend hope you will include it in your next video
Thank you so much for the memory controller configuration/Timing testing! Years ago when I purchased my ASRock X470 Taichi, ASRock's default memory settings for my configuration where leading to massive instability. I blamed my Vega 64(s), an bought a used GTX 1070 thinking it was AMD's graphics drivers, and the GTX 1070 was even more unstable in my system configuration! They I got a tip that ASRock used stupid default memory controller settings for their motherboards, and to use DRAM Calc for Ryzen and just grab the memory controller settings and set them in the BIOS. After that, my Vega 64(s) were ROCK stable and I was able to help many ASRock motherboard owners make their systems stable using this exact same troubleshooting method on 400-series chipsets. I find it extremely interesting that using similar methods using 1usmus's new Hydra tool might also help in similar ways to get the same level of performance out of some of these motherboards. But for users who don't want to deal with that, this default memory configuration information and knowing which boards deal with it best out of box might be a great no nonsense way of selecting a motherboard. I really hope to see this trend f showing the default memory configurations in your motherboard reviews continue, as I am already blown away by how helpful it is.. you are even helping MSI improve their future BIOS revisions to correct these issues!
Excellent video! Very informative and helpful, and much needed too as it's very easy for builders to get lost in all the different board chipsets and features, making it easy to end up with a product without really understanding finer details like shown here. This is the kind of content that makes you guys the best.
The Asrock board is X670E-----which means it has a PCIe 5.0 x16 slot for graphics cards. Meaning that this board could theoretically be a better choice for longevity.
I always love these amazing MB testing videos! In Europe the Asus Tuf X670E-Plus model has actually been very close at 339€ and, assuming it tests well, I’d probably go with that. For my work and peace of mind I prefer silence optimized builds, and better thermals are important in that regard.
I love that you've included information about memory training in this. It's just more useful information that we can use to find the best motherboards.
You guys always got the answers. I’m waiting for your x670E reviews because that’s what I have but I know once it gets here I will know everything there is to know about my mother! So happy I found you guys channel years ago… thanks dudes!
The Gigabyte board performed better because of all the X's. If you toss some RGB on it, it should go even faster! Seriously though, it just goes to show you that a little attention to detail can give a bump in performance. Speaking of attention to detail, I appreciate yours! When you notice the small discrepancies, you dig in and find out why, and that's a serious amount of work. Too bad the board makers didn't consider it first.
I chose MSI X670-P MOBD. It has the best MOBD features for my setup and at $229.99 it was priced right. All the issues you had with it should all be updated by now 4 months later. I hope? It is hard to find a cheaper good board with at least 6 sata headers and all the other onboard features I look for. The kind of board I usually buy is priced way to high now a days with all the high pricing. More money with less of the features I like. This board proves you can have good features with a lower price point even at this time.
My new machine is being assembled with a 7600x, 4090, (i upgraded? from the asus prime x670p to ASUS ROG STRIX B650E-E GAMING WIFI AM5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16, (4)M.2) Hopefully this was a good decision. Plan is to get the 3d chips when they come out, and main purpose of the purchase was for 4K OLED display frame rates. Great video!
Well, in the over 20yrs of building PCs I've only had two arrive DOA and one was a Gigabyte & the other being a MSI board so, based on that history and HUB's findings here I'd probably go with the Asus Prime board but, the truth is that I'm not yet ready to jump onto the AM5 bandwagon as I already have a fairly new gaming rig in my 5800x3d/3080ti FTW3 which should net me decent FPS for a few more years, by then these AM5 boards and DDR5 ram should've matured enough and also have come down in price significantly to allow most PC builders better hardware choices ;)
I got only one thing to say and I believe that it speaks on its own. I bought my Z490-A PRO for 130 euros two years back. And that was the top chipset at the time for my i-9 10850 K.
The most relevant aspect about the current state of the desktop hardware business is that Gigabyte promotes in 2023 graphic cards launched in 2020. Good job Steve! Appreciate your work.
Do you think maybe future bios updates will make this within margin of error? All of this seems a memory tunning issue, some are more conservative maybe because it's new and stability is more important ATM. Let's see what the future awaits.
MSI will be publicly rolling out a series of BIOS updates next week to address the performance issues seen in this video. When using memory clocked below DDR5-6050 they will default to a 1:1 ratio.
Do you get paid after feedback all of this findings to Motherboard maker? just curious
hello , could you do the same video for b650 ?
@@madinimeWhy would they? They are journalists, financial relationships (apart from straight advertising alongside the journalistic content) with the entities they cover would compromise their integrity and objectivity. They trade on the trust of their audience, not consulting.
@@vRackham devs who find bugs get paid, so what the fuck are you talking about, he should get paid just like devs who find bugs and get paid by tech companies
my msi MAG B650 TOMAHAWK WIFI did the same with the uclk but since i manually tuned my ram i guess im good
I would love to see a comparison with B650 boards. They'll most likely be more popular as they are cheaper and companies may not want to spend as much time and effort into these cheaper models.
B650 this gen actually seem pretty damn good and overbuilt, but would love to see a comparison.
Depends. A b650 board will of course be made simper/cheaper, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they get less development resources. Keep in mind the mid and low range chipset boards tend to outsell the high end ones by usualy double digit factors. Even of x670s justify higher investments per board, the msssiveöy igher sales volume mames that irrelevant
Yea I think we all want to see the B650 boards tested! I went with a B650 this gen, which isn't something I normally do - but the cost of high end boards (600 cdn) and the further irrelevance of overclocking made the decision for me. I've been happy with my Aorus B650(AFTER I installed the latest bios, out of the box it was choking my 4080 for some reason) but I'd love to see comprehensive benchmarks.
We need the LTT VRM tier list for AM5. We had it for AM4 and it is what I used to select my motherboard
Yeah, the B650 boards are far more interesting this gen, as they are high in price already, but are better equipped as well.
Interested to see the comparison between X670E and B650E to see how they differ.
He said he has tested 22 MBs, so I'm assuming those comparisons have been done, and next week we'll see the results! :D
I'm also looking forward to seeing those comparisons. I'm impatiently waiting to build an AM5 system once the 7000X3D CPUs release, and my main use for the system will be gaming, therefore, I want to get the cheapest yet best performing board I can.
Yeah I am interested in seeing how B650/B650E perform, for my R9 3900X I went with X570 as at the time (pre B550) it was the only way to get PCIe Gen4 for M.2 storage for my Hobby Editing PC but I think when I make my next upgrade to a R9 7900 I think the B650/B650E will be all I need.
Yea. I had a bit of a horror story on the go, I bought a 7600x and a aorus 650 mobo to go with my 4080, and for 2 weeks my FPS in games seemed low - but it was still playable. It was maddening, because I'd watch a video of a 3090ti/5800x combo edge my FPS, and not know if I just lost the silicone lottery badly or something. So I was trying all sorts of stuff, and then finally noticed my mobo was on 1.0 bios. So I patched it to the latest version - instantly everything was fixed. My FPS went up 50%. My timespy went from below average to far above average for my hardware. I have no idea why those factory mobo bios were choking my 4080 like that.
b650e is closer to x670e than x670 is
@@Isaiiahii Same boat here! If only ddr5 and AM5 boards could go down in price more.
Genuinely a good video. Just the other day i was thinking how i rarely see motherboard performance compared anymore. This used to be more of a thing many years ago where you'd see comparisons on tech sites pretty often. This video shows why it's important.
Thanx... Looking to do my first PC build in almost 20 years, and really appreciate the videos you do 👍
Nah I don't even have 20 u mad old😂😂😂
Jk
You’ll notice a bit of a jump in performance I reckon…
looking forward to your review of the b650 boards🙂
b650 next please
I'm working on it guys. There are even more of those things 😅
@@Hardwareunboxedplease, please, do it with some 5600mhz rams because most of ppl buying b650 are buying 5200-5600mhz rams imho. thank you for your work!
@ Funnily enough your argument could be applied to yourself as well. Also DDR5 pricing varies from region to region so while the price of ddr5 6000 compared to 5xxx might be the same in your place, it might differ from others.
Me too :)
Greetings from ASRock (Malaysia) - Thank You, for your work and findings. Glad to see our board doing well here.
Hmmm
Yet another key finding furthering the body of knowledge for consumers.
Thank you Steve!
"Thanks, Steve."
I'd really like a guide at somepoint going over some of the motherboard quirks when it comes to PCIE lanes, and what changes depending on what you populate. E.G. a 2nd x16 slot if populated goes down to x8 speed along with the 1st x16 slot, some SATA ports become disabled if all M.2 slots are used etc. and so on. As even manufacturer websites are unclear about these things, and it can be easy buying something that doesn't end up meeting expectations.
Since every model board is made differently , the only way to find that information is to check the mobo manual.
And so it has begun...
Finally the AM5 motherboard content has arrived. I was holding out for this advise.
There is no other channel I trust more when it comes to this type of content.
As I buy a computer every 7-8 years I cannot get this wrong! (currently using a Sandy-Bridge-e and it is very very tired - lol)
These vids are going straight into the already created AM5 playlist that I will use for buying my next setup..., and I will of course use the afiliation links to do so.
Can't wait for the X3D variants to press all the buy-buttons.
The dual ccds on those 3d chips are gonna be a buggy mess. Just a heads up
@@ksks6802No one knows yet. We’ll see in the reviews.
@@ksks6802 Not any more than Intel's hydrid architecture.
@@ksks6802 It's really not the same scenario as an intel chip, because the x3d cores will be the fastest gaming cpu core in the world while the non x3d cores will be what, what is currently the 2nd fastest gaming cpu in the world. There will not be a massive performance swing like with an intel chip if something runs on the wrong cores, you might drop from say 240 fps to 200 fps, you can always manually core pin too with applications that you need to run on the 3d cores, or you may have an app that benefits from higher frequency which can be pinned to the non x3d core. Intel e cores are like a core 2 duo core, basically worthless for anything but accelerating benchmarks.
@@PineyJustice wasn't really trying to go into all that. I trust people to make their own decisions. Say what you will about Intels current stack, but its offerings (watching all the new stuff happen with a 3700x) has made amd either cut prices or release new skus with eco mode enabled. Unfortunately I have to pay attention to this stuff to future proof. Itll be interesting for sure.
This generates a problem since pursuing that 10% mobo makers pursue unhealthy default settings that shortens the lifespan of components and generates instability.
Thanks for taking the time to contact the manufacturer and press them for improvements. I have the ASRock Lightning board and I've used the "Aggressive" memory tuning setting in conjunction with the EXPO settings with no issue. Might be something to benchmark if you're curious or maybe ASRock can make those timings the standard.
wow, didn't know the performance can differ so much.
Thanks again Steve.
Looking forward to your B650 boards roundup.
I'd love to know if this has all been balanced out now with BIOS / AGESA updates. These HUB early roundups for both X670 and B650 showed significant performance differences and I think it's important, as a gamer, to know whether these gaps have been fixed now. Considering how much we spend on CPU/GPU for every possible performance gain it seems silly that motherboard selection can make such a difference.
@@raynefear As currently, i would go for Gigabyte Mobo. But Asrock is looking better and better through the years.
Never buy Asus again. I bought Asus in the past. Bios is way to hard to work with. Gigabyte was so simple.
@@darthpaulx Yeah ASUS really dropped it hard on AM5. I'm stuck between ($CAD prices) $170 ASRock B650M RS Pro Wifi or $270 boards like the MSI B650 Tomahawk or Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX... though on these benchmarks they look great, every Gigabyte board I look at has lots of reviews complaining about bad coil whine. I would rather spend less, but not if that $100 difference means a 10% performance loss since I can't find any evidence at all that these performance gaps have been fixed by BIOS updates.
After a bios update I have been quite happy with the Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX. The VRM heatsinks are excellent
Got the same
Which bios version are you using?
Mine only runs with version 2 stable with 6000 cl30 ram.
All other versions did only reboot on jedec standart…
How lobg does yours take to coldboot?
@@n0pe_7 With zen 4, it seems the CPUs are and will remain the problem regarding the memory (even after bios fixes), they're the reason you can't go to 6800+, while on intel it's possible, so probably in the future with new CPUs it will be possible to get more out of these MBs.
@@xtrwq yeah but with the oldest and the newest bios even 5200 cl40 was unstable.
Now it at least runs at 6000 cl30.
But am5 has still extremely long post abd boot times.
Some people have to wait over 1 -2 minutes
For me its 40 seconds
@@n0pe_7 There are MBs where there's a option in the bios to skip memory training at startup (maybe all have it?) and it should speed that up. Not sure why it's not set on as default for all cases expect when changes have been made.
I also want to get an asrock x670e RS PRO and I hope the startup isn't worse than my very old haswell system.
@@xtrwq thanks but already tried that
If i enable this option i only get a black screen for hours.
Only thing is a cmos reset.
Unfortunately
been waiting for a video like this so i have a better idea of which board to upgrade to.
thanks a ton for all the hard work and really looking forward to the roundup!
I definitely appreciate this content. I ended up going for the Asrock B650E Steel Legend for my AM5 rig and it’s the first time I’ve had an Asrock board for a very long time. Your results are reassuring that they are a solid (if sometimes basic) choice when compared to peers, I had held a perception that they were a tier below the asus/gigabyte/Msi group.
Got a 7700x with trident z 2x16 6000 cl30 on an Asrock b650e pg-itx wifi replacing my old itx system which is a 3100 with tforce delta rgb 2x8 3000 cl16 on a Gigabyte b550i aorus pro ax. The same config was on an Asus prime b350-plus before switching to itx. Man I have to say in terms of build quality I was really impressed by both asrock and gigabyte - I would say both mobos are on par. In terms of software tools gigabyte was the worst for me though. I was generally very disappointed with the asus board. It worked fine and I even still have it, but it is built as cheap as possible. It is probably not a fair comparison as it is a low end board but still I was expecting more.
AsRock is always placed 4th for a reason. BIOS is still not at the level of the 3 others, often lacking both polish and functionalities. But if you can make this compromise, the brand is renowned to provide quite interesting designs and is historically more budget oriented.
@PainterVierax Always placed fourth? I'm pretty sure it placed second in this video did it not?
Would like to see a comparison between more expensive b650 boards and ''cheap'' x670 boards considering they can be even more expensive than the boards tested here.
YAY! It's VRM Thermals time again! I've been waiting for AM5 board testing for so long. No one else seems to be interested in doing motherboard testing like you do it.
It has been 5 months did the MSI PRO X670-P take care of the bios? Love all your reviews thats what I go by for buying pc parts I started with tomahawk b450 and have watched you since.
Same question.
i accidentalyl bought that board, if it even works i will test it for you guys, stay in touch. i have no cpu rn
Loving the memory timing break down, it would be a consideration for myself and others I recommend to, to select the most aggressively timed board from XOC/XMP whatever its called now Xbow. I'm sure I'm just another voice in the choir here but it all adds up.
Agreed, it's EXPO btw.
The ones he shows are Expo but still fairly conservative. My Asus B650e-f (I assume all Strix boards) have some presets for each memory manufacturer and they are even better (in fact, XMP would not work for me and I used presets which increased memory voltages too which needed)
Awesome. I am going to build a new computer with the 7800X3D when it releases, so this is great timing. I have it all worked out but the motherboard and RAM.
I hope you enjoy your new pc 💪🏽💪🏽
@Insane Justice Oh I'm sure I will! I have a computer on life support from 10 years ago, with an Intel 3470 as the processor. It has survived some catastrophes along the way, and for the last 4 years it has run on one 4gb 1866MHz stick. I've been really, really patient with upgrading. And now its finally time.
best ram to get gskill F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR
super tight and samsung die
@@keffmode thanks to god
@@rogerdouglas2306 I will take a look at those 🙂
You didn't really need to make this video, I could have told you that the Gigabyte X670 Gaming X AX would be the best. It has more X's in the name and GN already scientifically proved that performance scales linearly with the quantity of X's in the product name. Seriously though, thanks for the video, great info.
Good start of the motherboards series, finally someone is doing it.
So odd all the big tech guys were skipping the head to head comparisons for motherboards.
Specially now motherboards have 2x and 3x prices, Gamers would like to know where the golden nuggets are.
I think the golden nuggets will be had in the B650 lineup. But as we've seen in the past, there will be some really shitty cheap boards not really capable of full TDP operation.
I mean these boards are such shit that nobody should be buying or paying attention to them especially at those prices
I have the Gigabyte Gaming X AX X670. Loving the number of m.2 slots and rear USB ports. Crazy amount of ports.
Though my plan is to skip this Generation, I still like to stay updated on the latest and Greatest ( or not so great! LOL) so I appreciate all the work you put in here Steve! Always look forward to any CPU, GPU and Motherboard Roundups you post! Cheers!
I'm building two B650 systems but waiting keenly on more coverage. Love that you go in to detail on the VRMs etc., this is the level of content we really need.
Your motherboard testing is an absolute service to the community.
I got a B650 for $149.99 along with a 7700X and DDR5 and it gets the job done. 4K 120 FPS easy with a 4080.
Yes, finally :) thanks for all the testing, making our purchase decisions much easier!
Greetings from switzerland :)
so which one you getting?
I just moved to Switzerland. Where do you recommend to buy parts? Galaxus and Digitech seem overpriced.
@@samsolaka5435waiting for more reviews. The Tuf x670e Looks promising
@@emidrummer1990 if you are not buying 7950x better quality x650e or x650 are better
@@emidrummer1990 what about the ASRock X670E PG Lightning ?
Wow, that is impressive. I am running RG Lightning board myself. Will look at those timings then. I must note that ASRock offer "performance" and "aggressive" settings instead of AGESA defaults for EXPO overclock. Need to check if there's any difference in subtimings.
The MSI B650 Tomahawk WIFI has the same issue, i checked mine and it's running the uclk at 1500 with 6000 memory. Did the manual running to get it to where it should be. No gaming difference for me though since i'm heavily GPU bottlenecked currently , but it just felt weird to not address this setting. Thank you for pointing out the issue.
The gigabyte x670 gaming x is over 600.00 on NewEgg. Not exactly in the same price range as the AsRock boards.
My rule for MB, never cheap out on it. Overkill MB that got 4years ago, still holds to this day.
@Garrus Vakarian do that in low end MB
My rule is never buy a first gen product.
Fantastic work Steve. Would love to see a similar round up of b650 boards.
Not too surprising, Gigabyte has always been a solid board maker for me, maybe not as flashy, but always just work. Heck im running a 5800x3D without a problem on a Gigabyte ab350 gaming 3 board that I recall everyone saying when it first came out "it will never be able to handle a high end 8 core cpu, you will want to get a x370 for that."
Great work Steve - your recommendations are insightful and you present the facts with imparitallity. As I am currently looking to upgrade, your 20 board review will be looked at with interest.
My focus is keeping down the thermals for a air cooled rig which of course affects how much power all components use.
Your reviews remain so comprehensive... wow!
Good to see Asrock doing well, being cheaper doesn't mean bad, they actually did a good job!
yay! my friend has been waiting for the OFFICIAL b650 round up before bagging am5 ...previous b550 x570 & z590 HU roundups have been instrumental in our purchases .
EU prices are pretty wild for those motherboard
Asrock X670E PG Lightning 350€
Gigabyte X670 Gaming X 340€
MSI Pro X670-P Wifi 380€
Asus Prime X670-P Wifi 370€
The cheapest B650 starts at 200€ switching to AM5 is pretty costly.
If sales are bad prices go down
Not sure if you're in Germany, but Asus Prime X670e was on discount for 190e recently...
I went for the Asrock with a 7600; good value and offers an upgrade path when PCIe 5 hits.
Gigabyte has been putting out some good MBs the last few generations. Love their b550 aorus boards. I still remember when gigabyte was coming up and i always avoided their MBs. Great video, cheers!
Now their boards come with coil whine for free 😍
I'm thinking of upgrading from my gaming laptop to a desktop tower in march and had already decided to go for AM5, so videos like this one are extremely helpful towards what is going to be my final build. Thank you guys so much for all the work that you do , regards from Chile.
I don't want to know how that sata bank on that MSI board got bent like that.
I'm guessing it's a pre-production issue as the board came like that. It still works, the plastic housing just isn't connected to the PCB.
great catch, now please test B650 boards as well coz i definetly feel like my system with B650 board and 7700x is underperforming in gaming, B650E Strix E
Gigabyte usually gives best bang for buck especially with the vrm
the issue of vrm is you just have to trust them that they arnt lying.
like what is 16+2+1 twin digital vrm, just screams scam.
i remember 8 being good if true, so 19 vrms for a 260usd board seems like they are lying.
I've been waiting for the AM5 motherboard reviews, since I'm pretty likely to buy an 7800X3D after the reviews are out for it.
Thanks for the content, and I look forward to the rest of your motherboard reviews too!
These are way too expensive for what they offer. Maybe I should just go with 5000 series for my upgrade (8700k)
Thank you for your work finding this issue, helps keep big companies in check.
gigabyte very good
Thanks. Hoping for a B650 boards roundup as well.
Where did good 100€ boards go?!?
Wendell from Level1 said that ASRock was the only OEM than also test and support Unbuffered ECC memory. Great work ASRock!
Turks work for 1 month to buy motherboards that you say are expensive.
Ok, so are you saying that they are not expensive?
@@FutureChaosTV They are not cheap, but people living in Europe and America can buy them more easily and in a short time.
don't you have like crazy inflation currently?
@@kingplunger1 Yes, there is. 😢
Thanks steve(after typing that, just had intel lady saying that in my head) for the video, great to have a mobo round up for AM5
You never dissapoint. I love this Channel & I Ttust you far more than any other tech channel.
Can't wait to see more AM5 Motherboard Content, this X670 Budget Comparison had very surprising results I must say. This makes me very curious about how the B650 and more expensive X670/X670E Boards perform
Glad to you're reporting on the memory as when I saw the secondary timings my Asus b650e-e loaded they looked ridiculously loose and I wasn't at first sure if they were decent and just a DDR5 characteristic or not. After spending a few days learning and tuning the timings myself, my read and write speeds have jumped over 25% and latency is 23% less than the default timings and this is at stock voltages. I’m sure a bit more could be extracted with a little extra voltage but I’m really happy with my results.
I think AIDA64 or some other memory benchmarks should be ran in the future so we can see the bandwidth and latency differences for each board at stock settings.
Hoping that the AM5 socket will be around for some time, it makes sense to me to go for the Asrock X670E model, PCIe 5.0 support for the GPU will make a difference in the future with games requiring more and more to move such massive amounts of texture data. It does have some basic LED indication for troubleshooting, not a 7-segment display, but enough to indicate if the issue is the CPU, RAM, GPU or storage. The sound card is basic, but I prefer not to waste money there as I use an external DAC. Same for WiFi, you can add it, no need to waste money on it if you don't need it, and, anyway, it's still a competitive price if you buy a key-e wifi module. I just wish all the RGB BS was also removed from the board, and invest that money in adding a dual PS/2 port. Also the on-board display output is electronic waste and it doesn't make any sense in an ATX X670E board, it will only cause problems to inexperienced customers plugging the monitor in the wrong port.
The DRAM timings show how important some secondary timings are. Especially tRC, Trfc1 and Twr which are typically set to very conservative values to avoid instability.
The aorus elite x670 is only $192
What a good value
2:40 the facial expression of opening the RTX4090 is hilarious.
Finally, someone is doing AM5 motherboard content.
Now 300$ is entry level and five years ago 200$ was a premium board...
Yep and AMD fanboys still support AMD.
@@JayzBeerz All companies want your money. AMD bad, Intel bad. The market does its thing they see what they can get away with.
@@dabj9546 true bro just said AMD cause these are AMD boards. Intel boards are just the same. it's a money grab.
Thanks! I think B650E (PCI-e 5 support). For instance the Asus B650E-F are more affordable in EU and a more interesting product in the "cheap" category. Would be interesting to see how it performs.
My MSI B650 ITX board just arrived yesterday, this is definitely good to know so I can check on that. Also nice to see Gigabyte really does put in a lot of extra effort for their premium products
I purchased the PG Lightning back at launch. I knew this testing was coming but I had to take the risk, my i7-3770 wasn't getting any younger. I'm glad it worked out, and glad you guys did the testing so that I don't have to wonder.
I will say using this board is a little more difficult than boards in the past. Why they put stickers that gum up your ram slots is beyond me. Not having the Q code led really sucks too. Still though, at the time alot of the mobos we're in the 500's and I needed something immediately, so this ~250 board made sense.
Honestly, I'd probably choose the ASRock. The Gigabyte only stood out because of tighter RAM timings that can be set in the BIOS or with an BIOS update. The ASRock is an X670E board that's less expensive than the X670 boards from the other brands. I've had several ASRock boards in the past and I've never had one fail on me.
My two main AM4 boards are the ASRock X370 Killer SLI and the X570 Pro4. They've both been rock-solid for me and while I know that Gigabyte offers a three-year warranty, I've never needed to RMA an ASRock board.
I've never needed to RMA a Gigabyte board either but that only makes then tied. I'll never buy an MSi motherboard again after my K9A2 Platinum failed so that's out and I find that ASUS isn't nearly as good as it used to be.
I know you hate them Steve but IMO, ASRock is definitely the winner here. It offers something that none of the others do and it costs less. That's a win, period.
I know this may be a lot to ask for, but would you consider doing a similar motherboard performance comparison video, but for the 3D CPU lineup? I just built a system on the Gaming AX with a 7800X3D and the performance seems to be beyond any expectations. This makes me believe that there may be even more discrepancies between boards on the same chipset. Cheers.
I'd like to believe some performance engineer in Gigabyte actively advocates that memory timing tuning is one of the last bastions they can squeeze out a competitive edge, and in turn is why they provide Buildzoid with a good set of samples, and is why we have these results. The remaining problem is that RAM brands don't advertise the most important set of subtimings (or the full XMP/EXPO profile) on their kits, and only primaries.
I'm typing this while watching the introductions of the boards and I gotta say, when it comes to labeling the usb ports, I really like the Asrock aproach to include the speed on every port for I have no clue anymore what connection of the USB standard is fast and what's not!
Best motherboard reviews anywhere, such a valuable resource - Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Love what you do, thanks for the terrific work you put into these Steve!
Got myself Gigabyte X670 Gaming X AX on Black Friday, and unfortunately I experience some issues with memory overclocking. Not sure if it's the motherboard, memory, processor or PSU fault, since I don't have spare components to test.
Basically, when I'm trying to run it at 6000 MHz, the system runs very stable, but as soon as I restart it, it doesn't boot until I reapply the settings in the BIOS, which is incredibly inconvenient. Even AMD EXPO profile at 5600 MHz still has some issues.
Hopefully the BIOS update will fix it, since there are no other issues.
Looks like in Europe, that Gigabyte board is also the cheapest X670 Board (by far if you don't mind mail-in-rebates), so I would say that is a no-brainer based on this testing.
It would be useful reviews of the basic 'cheap' motherboards, like the Asus Prime A650.
great work, I love your motherboards videos , not many channels make them, I'm interested in the ASRock X670E Steel Legend hope you will include it in your next video
So it begins
Can't wait to see budget B650 testing, want to figure out what to get with a 7800x3D.
Planned to get the msi x670-p, went with a gigabyte aorus elite instead
Thank you so much for the memory controller configuration/Timing testing! Years ago when I purchased my ASRock X470 Taichi, ASRock's default memory settings for my configuration where leading to massive instability. I blamed my Vega 64(s), an bought a used GTX 1070 thinking it was AMD's graphics drivers, and the GTX 1070 was even more unstable in my system configuration! They I got a tip that ASRock used stupid default memory controller settings for their motherboards, and to use DRAM Calc for Ryzen and just grab the memory controller settings and set them in the BIOS. After that, my Vega 64(s) were ROCK stable and I was able to help many ASRock motherboard owners make their systems stable using this exact same troubleshooting method on 400-series chipsets.
I find it extremely interesting that using similar methods using 1usmus's new Hydra tool might also help in similar ways to get the same level of performance out of some of these motherboards. But for users who don't want to deal with that, this default memory configuration information and knowing which boards deal with it best out of box might be a great no nonsense way of selecting a motherboard. I really hope to see this trend f showing the default memory configurations in your motherboard reviews continue, as I am already blown away by how helpful it is.. you are even helping MSI improve their future BIOS revisions to correct these issues!
Would like to see this for the b650 boards. Good work!
I've been waiting for this content piece while speccing out my 7800X3D build for next month
Excellent video! Very informative and helpful, and much needed too as it's very easy for builders to get lost in all the different board chipsets and features, making it easy to end up with a product without really understanding finer details like shown here. This is the kind of content that makes you guys the best.
The Asrock board is X670E-----which means it has a PCIe 5.0 x16 slot for graphics cards. Meaning that this board could theoretically be a better choice for longevity.
I always love these amazing MB testing videos! In Europe the Asus Tuf X670E-Plus model has actually been very close at 339€ and, assuming it tests well, I’d probably go with that.
For my work and peace of mind I prefer silence optimized builds, and better thermals are important in that regard.
Certainly looking forward to the full test results. I have a MSI X670E Carbon Wifi in box waiting to build with this weekend actually
I love that you've included information about memory training in this. It's just more useful information that we can use to find the best motherboards.
You guys always got the answers. I’m waiting for your x670E reviews because that’s what I have but I know once it gets here I will know everything there is to know about my mother! So happy I found you guys channel years ago… thanks dudes!
The Gigabyte board performed better because of all the X's. If you toss some RGB on it, it should go even faster! Seriously though, it just goes to show you that a little attention to detail can give a bump in performance. Speaking of attention to detail, I appreciate yours! When you notice the small discrepancies, you dig in and find out why, and that's a serious amount of work. Too bad the board makers didn't consider it first.
That was a masterful dub job at the beginning there, Steve!
I chose MSI X670-P MOBD. It has the best MOBD features for my setup and at $229.99 it was priced right. All the issues you had with it should all be updated by now 4 months later. I hope? It is hard to find a cheaper good board with at least 6 sata headers and all the other onboard features I look for. The kind of board I usually buy is priced way to high now a days with all the high pricing. More money with less of the features I like. This board proves you can have good features with a lower price point even at this time.
problem I been having with this board even after a bios update is a cpu fan error with my be quiet! AIO
@@planetary2180 I don't use an AIO
@@danielwagner6290 I was just saying
How is the board now?
@@redlinemx2879 better, no more aio error after bios update, startup times are like 50 seconds with xmp enabled so keep that in mind
Damn. I remember getting a x370 taichi for 120 bucks back in the day. These prices are nuts.
My new machine is being assembled with a 7600x, 4090, (i upgraded? from the asus prime x670p to ASUS ROG STRIX B650E-E GAMING WIFI AM5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16, (4)M.2) Hopefully this was a good decision. Plan is to get the 3d chips when they come out, and main purpose of the purchase was for 4K OLED display frame rates. Great video!
Well, in the over 20yrs of building PCs I've only had two arrive DOA and one was a Gigabyte & the other being a MSI board so, based on that history and HUB's findings here I'd probably go with the Asus Prime board but, the truth is that I'm not yet ready to jump onto the AM5 bandwagon as I already have a fairly new gaming rig in my 5800x3d/3080ti FTW3 which should net me decent FPS for a few more years, by then these AM5 boards and DDR5 ram should've matured enough and also have come down in price significantly to allow most PC builders better hardware choices ;)
I got only one thing to say and I believe that it speaks on its own. I bought my Z490-A PRO for 130 euros two years back. And that was the top chipset at the time for my i-9 10850 K.
The asrock board has 3 options for each ddr5 timing speeds. Amd exbow-compedative-extreme to help dial In the memory when using good stuff
Great content guys, love to see all chipsets done in the future.
The most relevant aspect about the current state of the desktop hardware business is that Gigabyte promotes in 2023 graphic cards launched in 2020.
Good job Steve! Appreciate your work.
who would have thought there would be such big difference in gaming!!! thanks for the testing!!
Do you think maybe future bios updates will make this within margin of error?
All of this seems a memory tunning issue, some are more conservative maybe because it's new and stability is more important ATM.
Let's see what the future awaits.
There is absolutely no reason that some motherboards are still without "Clear CMOS" and "fault LED's" in 2023, regardless of being lower-end items.
someone needs to make a universal pcie card that can show the 7 Segmented leds that help trouble shooting hardware.