Sam confirms yet again the double standard that Harris faced. She said one thing on record 4-5 years ago and she's still crucified over it, but Trump says dozens of offensive, extreme, and outright false things every day and it's "what are you going to do? That's just Trump being Trump." The fact that so much of this interview is about trans issues says more about Sam than anything else.
Or perhaps Sam understands how much the trans issue resonates with a great many of us. In fact, it might have been enough to sway the election to Trump. Here in Michigan they played the "trans" campaign ad repeatedly! That sort of thing strikes home, while generic appeals to "not go back" just sound like empty air.
Speaking from my point a white 77 year old grandmother trying to keep up with the changes in our world. I desided not to go certain places technical. I just know right from wrong. You tell the truth, treat others like you would want to be treated, and do not judge others until you have walked in their shoes. The minute Trump came on board I knew my world was in Great Danger.
My mom had the same response. While the rest of my family is well into the cult. I'm so proud of her, for living her values, instead of just preaching them.
That is exactly what distinguishes hardcore Trump supporters from normal people. Almost all of them are, like Trump, utterly amoral, and the few who have personal morals do not demand the same of their politicians for whatever reason. I hate Trump not because of his policies (to the extent he actually has any), but because he's a POS.
It's been said about the left that if it weren't for double standards, they wouldn't have any either. Don't be scared about government spending oversight ....
@mikegoetz3184 republicans always add to the debt. Democrats bring down the debt Bill Clinton gave George Bush a surplus and Bush blew that out of the water. Trump added 8 trillion and Biden brought that down.
@@mikegoetz3184government spending oversight is one thing. Slashing the ACA , Medicare/Medicaid and social security is entirely different. Getting rid of the Department of Education and NOAA is absolutely insane.
@ ever notice that education has been going down hill since the inception of the Dept of Education ? Imagine how much cheaper health care and insurance would be if all poisons / toxins were mandated out of our foods ....
thank you for this discussion. I'm looking to Bulwark more and more for conversation that I can trust to the degree that the contributors are either expert in their fields or display educated opinions and moral scruples. This channel has gotten me through the past few years.
I’m encouraged by Tim as he sees the folly in dogmatic political stances. He is more honest, reflective and humanist than any “republican”:I can think of.
Tim has said he was never really socially conservative. He’s conservative in regard to fiscal and foreign policy. So it makes sense that a socially conservative Democrat would be to Tim’s right on social issues.
What I find amazing is EVERY trans-person I have had interaction with they are THE most understanding and reasonable about others not fully understanding their situation. Nothing like what we hear from the frigging media.
I've found a much wider range of attitudes among trans people. People who behave as you describe and others who attack you if you acknowledge the concept of biological sex. The media likes to focus on the latter.
The trans panic isn’t about reality, it’s about people who feel threatened by changing world views. These folks clearly don’t know any actual trans people or have heard their personal stories of bullying and erasure. There’s reactionary mentality among the center and center-left is shocking. Real trans people don’t deserve to be the elitists’ scapegoat.
@@TheHSIHP this is so not a real issue. I've worked in corporate tech jobs since 1999 and never once was I bullied, never once did anyone I worked with felt they were bullied. No one actually cares.
Let me get this straight: caring about the rights and well-being of trans people is so offensive to some that they would rather support someone like Trump, who has a history of abuse allegations? As a Black woman, the transphobia I’m hearing from Sam is deeply alarming. I’ve never heard of a single trans person harming children. If MAGA supporters genuinely cared about protecting kids from abuse, they would focus on addressing clergy abuse rather than covering it up. Some of these churches have become unsafe environments for children.
Sam & Tim: Under Trump's administration, he signed into federal law a policy requiring prisons to offer inmates medical and gender affirming care. This was in 2018. Kamala brought this up several times. And she had a commercial about it during the same times Trump did. So, maybe we needed her to be more out loud with it, like Trump was, but please, when talking about this, just be careful with your information.
That policy was based on changes to the guidelines that Obama made while leaving office. Kamala affirmatively supported that policy - and then some. Policy that MOST people thought was so insane, they literally didn't believe it until shown the video (observation from Trump's campaign testing). Literally, my brother thought I was lying when I told him what Kamala said. It is insane. Completely insane.
@@mitsumeeshi unfortunately for Sam, asking him to be careful re: the “info” he’s spreading requires far more effort than he’s actually willing to put into anything. Well accept for his Islamophobia. He stops at nothing to spread that as thick as possible.
Trump never signed a federal law requiring trans surgeries for inmates. The BOP simply decided in a budget memo that they would start allowing it. Also, not a single federal inmates recieved surgery during the first trump administration. That occurred during Biden term. Go read the NYT article. Its a good thing chevron deference is gone and unelected bureaucrats won't make such crazy decisions.
I've loved sams work. I pay for all 3 of his subscription offerings: podcast, substack, and meditation. Tbs, I'm only 10 minutes in and he is not making good arguments here. Accusing Elon of being a drug addict, throwing out false qoutes, and challenging David Sacks to debate Anne Applebaum. Lol sacks would vanquish her quite easily BTW. Elon has used ketamine Legally under professional supervision. This idea that he's tweeting from a k hole every day is an epic strawman built by Harris. Harris shouldn't cry about Elon going after him directly after attacking him on his own podcast.
ELON MUSK IS NOT AN ENGINEER! He has a Bachelor in Economics and in Physics from the University of Pennsylvania. He inherited a lot of money and invested it well by buying different tech companies. The companies were founded and are run by actual engineers. He is just the owner and the charismatic figurehead of these companies.
Maybe because i am a psychiatrist, i never find trump funny---at best i find him sad, at worst dangerous and vindictive. I didn't even find him watchable on the Apprentice.
It is delusional to promote democracy when the country is owned by Citizens United & billionaires. see video: Morpheus: "You are a slave, Neo."... A Prison for Your Mind | The Matrix | [wage slavery] Both parties support endless war funds. The country has been a joke since Nixon. The public is taken for a mobster's ride. We are being set up for inflation which is class war. Joe Rogan has idiots on his show too. What we need is a national soapbox and some rational management of who gets to stand on it for how long.
@sjkcmd Agreed. If by funny they mean shameless and embarrassing, maybe? But he's not actually funny. His followers and staff tend to laugh at his "jokes" in the way one obligatorily laughs at a not very funny boss, making a not very funny joke.
As a non-psychiatrist, I can confirm that Trump has never made me laugh intentionally, and so I don't think that it's unique to your cohort. I've laughed AT him countless times, though, like when he exclaimed, "THEYRE EATING THE DAAAWGS!" during the debate. I thought then that it should have sealed the deal as an affirmation of his insanity, but alas, I was mistaken.😢
I'm a fairly conservative person raised by church going Catholics, married for 40 years and you know what, I also don't give one care in the world about whether a trans person uses the same bathroom as myself. I DO care when people are shunned from fully participating in society. Young people are NOT wrong when they want change from the status quo.
And if she had disavowed trans activism in any explicit way she would have lost support on the left. This is never part of anyone's math and it's infuriating. Left-leaning voters will punish their candidates for heterodoxy, and sometimes both sides of an issue are in the faction, such as with Gaza this year. Millions of people were going to stay home no matter what she said on that subject, it was just a matter of *which* millions.
It was the very fine people hoax that people to the drinking bleach hoax then the Russian pee pee hoax to the "He flushed Nuclear secrets down the toilet hoax. We Democrats based everything on hoaxes. We should have been honest. We should have said that we proudly suckle on a government teat by using the government's monopoly on force to fund the government teat that we all so proudly suckle. The American people need to make a choice. Do they want to join us in suckling in the government teat. Or do they want to remain a freedom loving MAGA type and have the Democrat boot of tyranny put on their throats. Instead we made up 1000 hoaxes that could be easily debunked
Sam says here it would have been easy for Kamala to debunk this flurry of defamation. WRONG. She probably even did it, but the media (incl. e.g. Twitter) would not spread it. It did not matter whether blatant lie or not, any defamation was spread - and that is so primitive that it sticks. Like the AI image of her in red communist uniform. I can follow Sam that the left has some loony guys with even more loony ideas, but that is also a result of the untethered chaos of ideas that the left allows, but where most people just subscribe to small subsets. While the (often christian) right is bound to subscribe to the complete set of dogmas their peers define for them. A conspiracy I could readily imagine is that currently the whole west is flooded by Putin-financed and Putin-designed Agitprop (the perfect word for it) to disrupt, divide and destabilize these societies. And we are vulnerable to that. Up to now each party wanted to pursue their interests - under the restraint of maintaining a functional peaceful society. No restraint needed by Putin, expert ex-KGB agent. The more chaos, the better for him. And the western oligarchs also have no issue with a depression, they feel too big to fail, for them a depression is an opportunity to buy up all the broke enterprises for nothing and multiply their power.
Because people like Sam manipulated their audiances to be fearful and distrusting of others. Gaslighting is a term overused but in this case his explanation of the elections is just a cover for how the right has hypnotized a large swath of the American public into states of hate and anger. Trump just rode that wave as he rode the wave of Gop bs. They are the problem and any one from that world pointing at Dei as the problem is just furthering the lie.
Again people saying this😡Kamala needed to do more of this or that. While Trump was insulting everyone, lying everyday, doing and saying insane and nasty things. The racist horror at MSG. Kamala did her best, she had great plans(not concepts)she is super qualified, smart, intelligent, great human being with morals and principles, but I guess half of this country wanted the horror show. 🤷🏻♀️
Right, the infantilizing of Trump voters is mind-boggling to me. At what point do they become accountable for the active choice that they made? Or is it always going to be a trans person's or a black woman's fault for not doing enough?
As someone who actually lives around the masses that voted for Trump... I'm sorry Sam but you talking about her needing to articulate a specific position more, or try to say she changed her mind on the trans stuff couldn't be more futile. People here in the Midwest would've just blamed her for swapping her stance on trans and used it against her. To think that people voting for Trump need to hear anything more articulated, is just wrong. Sure maybe it helps the silicon valley billionaires swap their vote for her to fight 'woke'... But After listening to Tim interview multiple of these rich people, it's clear that they were looking for any and every reason to vote against her. She could have been giving away cancer cures for free at hospitals in Iowa and the dying cancer patients would simply say, "gotta die sometime... Maga" Appreciate the info mate, but the war is against social media and the need to fight false info.
This guy seems to suffer from "Los Angeles Derangement Syndrome." I get it, I was born and raised in CA. It can be weird. But he's lost the plot. He actually thinks the whole country is like LA, I guess? He needs to get out more.
@@ShainRaley exactly. I think he spent too much time on college campuses too cause these woke trans stuff is prevalent there but IRL people are just living their life
@@Chibabachacho It's actually a bit depressing that college campuses are still emersed in woke dogma. With no way to wake them from their dogmatic slumber due to the political breakdown of campuses. (E.g., in 1970 it was basically 1:1. In 2022 the humanities was at something like 50:1 D to R.) And you know if they ever gain power over social media and news media again, they'll force it on everyone. Basically living w/ this shit over our heads for the rest of our lives.
Agree. It's online brainwashing. She addressed every major issue (even young men's) and had policies to help with economic struggles and women's bodily autonomy; she communicated them simply, with joy and hope, and was inclusive of the old right and the far left. They chose an inarticulate rapist/felon/conman, high on hate, who promised to destroy democracy. And the talking heads are nitpicking her campaign and liveability? It's absurd.
I appreciate Tim (and The Bukwark) offering guests with different points of view. It strikes me as Sam was describing Kamala’s failure in responding to trans activism that when he was asked how he would respond to the bigoted moves by Nancy Mace and Mike Johnson, he struggled to come up with a clear answer for a topic he seems really passionate about. It’s hard to admit when you think a specific group or population doesn’t really matter but it would be helpful for folks to start off being honest. Clearly this is a small population of our country but a complicated issue. Politics is personal and as someone who has a close family member who is trans, I don’t want to see them vilified for just existing. That vilification often starts at the top. Sam’s falling back to Kamala not being smart or articulate as an excuse rings sort of hollow too and smacks of the nonsense we heard from the tech side during the campaign. Did he not listen to any of her speeches, any of her rallies, her incredible debate performance? This line of reasoning is insane and doesn’t fit the reality - it burned me when I heard that during the campaign and it really burns me now.
Meanwhile, Trump is a liar and a psychopath - and sounds like exactly what his former cabinet members described him as - a moron. I guarantee you that if Kamala were a white man, she would be acknowledged as brilliant and capable.
I am a huge Sam fan but I agree he doesn't have the trans thing right. he talked about excessive mastectomies but far more straight males get breast reductions than trans folx but no one has a problem with that. Also just because the extreme right has gone nuts and created this politicized trans "issue" does that mean we are supposed to mute our support of trans people? It's true that the extreme maga right is exploiting fear and ignorance by attacking trans people and making it a political issue for which the left is going to have an unfair political price but I think we have to have integrity and stand up for trans folx regardless.
@@mntwinsfan1988 I disagree. The ONLY cohort that mattered or matters are independants in swing states. They are just not as concerned with the 0-maybe 1 trans persons they see in their communities as they are with their grocery bills or competing for jobs with illegal immigrants. Trumps campaign drilling on trans prisoners was a very smart move and likely played a large role in their victories across the 7 swing states.
Kamala needed to say everything she possibly could that would gain independents in swing states without losing the easy wins e.g. CA, NY, IL. She was terrible on everything. The Dems hid the president from us for 4 years bc he's old AF - then we saw how bad it was in the debate - EVEN THEN Kamala kept doubling down on the bullshit about thining Biden was super sharp and with it. That's the kind of lying that loses swing voters. They know they're geting BS from both sides - they seem to prefer their BS to be funny and stupid rather than timid and cautious.
The far left is a group I have never heard of, I am a progressive democrat and do think that some of the issues you talk about are over the top. But, the right is far more outrageous in behavior and beliefs that are not on the same par!
You are right,the right wants to make everyone bow to their will and ideas the left I think just wants to live and be treated equal to other human beings
Sam overestimates the power and reach of the “far left” by a massive amount. These people he decried are way more fringe than he thinks they are. Tim did a good job arguing that point.
Yes, and it is also true that trans/DEI issues were marginal in Kamala Harris' campaign. But Sam Harris does not underestimate how these issues offer cannon fodder to the right. Trump's campaign spent 215 M$ on *one* antitrans ad, just because that was the one with the "best"/strongest response from the electorate. That is a fact.
I was just gonna say that. I feel like he has only been living in a Twitter/NYT bubble with regards to the “left” - whatever that is. Who are these extremists he keeps talking about driving the Democrat bus?! Dems are not a monolithic group, like most, but as far as politics goes, people tend to vote to the center.
Yes. You said that perfectly. Messaging is the most important lesson here. People are more apt to accept a comfortable reality than actual reality. How can we work with that?
> "Kamala didn't disavow her sin [identity politics]" I dunno Sam, has Trump ever disavowed ANY of his sins? And we're talking about a LOT of them. Why does Kamala need to disavow and Trump doesn't? I really don't think Kamala disavowing this would have changed anything. Trump voters made up their minds before Kamala came into the picture.
Because once again she was held to a totally different standard than Trump. She had to be perfect, and even that wasn’t good enough. Meanwhile, he’s up there on stage simulating oral sex and the press barely covered it. How about asking Trump to apologize for his racist, homophobic comments?
Youre conflating personal behavior with policy positions. Trump for example both disavowed a federal abortion plan and Porject 2025 in this election. Obama claimed to be against gay marriage in 2008. Moderating on certain issues, even insincerely, really matters if you want to win elections.
Trump (and Republicans writ large) did not run against Kamala, he/they ran against the Democratic Party, the caricatured one as portrayed all over social and legacy media. The Dems are terrible, absolutely terrible at messaging, and they simply had their pants pulled down by the Republicans over and over again…
A good faith intelligent conversation between two thoughtful people. Why is this so rare these days? I don't agree with either one of the participants 100%, but I very much appreciate how they put their perspectives across and I learn from them. Thank you.
I have seen Sam Harris on many channels and very much admire his intellect. I disagree with his analysis of Harris’ loss. His explanation does not address the clear double standard that was applied to Harris vs Trump. Everything Harris said was scrutinized and every interview critiqued. Meanwhile Trump spewing insults nonsense and fear mongering . Reporters grilled Harris on policies and let Trump get away with vague promises. Anyone truly paying attention who cared about our democracy as well as our economy and social safety nets should have clearly voted for Harris over Trump. On top of all that , a huge section of our population were totally willing to ignore Trumps complete corruption including his attempt to blatantly overthrow the results of our free and fair election. The double standard applied to these two candidates boggles the mind
@@lhoward9593you people live in a complete bubble. I'll tell you why she lost one it's embarrassing to be a Democrat nowadays for men especially, they're the party of gay weak men it's just a fact. Number two and most importantly they're on the wrong side of every issue endless wars, crypto stoppage, men and women's sports, open borders, big pharma profits over Americans health, there's not one thing that they are pushing that is popular in this country not one those are the major things I just described them right there to you and the reality is they're on the wrong side of every one of those
Haha You've got to be kidding me? They've already done this study a million times in the last one I read was 88% of remarks or negative about Trump and it was like 10% for Harris on the mainstream media. It's never been more one side in fact one of the major reasons I now vote Republican is because I am so tired of the mainstream media lies and hatred of the Republican party. You keep criticizing one group of people and no one likes bullies. This is why most of us vote Republican nowadays is the media is in cahoots with them. How can you have mainstream media, Hollywood, big tech and all the universities yet you still can't get half the people to support you,? I can tell you it's because your policies are terrible and people despise the Democratic party for the corruption and lies that they tell with the media
I watched Harris speaking during the campaign, and she never looked like a hostage to the woke mob. She seemed like a thoughtful person who weighed her words and their effect, unlike her opponent and his unhinged rambling. I think Sam is kidding himself if he believes that any amount of explaining her change of heart would have satisfied the Joe Rogan voters. This election was about contempt toward women--the anti-Me Too election. These men were not going to vote for a woman, especially a black woman.
This is pretty much how I feel too. The double standard, asymmetry in Sam's words, is appalling. I think his perspective on Kamala seeming to mince words and dance around the difficult issues causing a problem for her is worth thinking about. IMO sticking so closely to the talking points may have convinced some people that she was just part of the democratic (small d) machine; an insider who is part of the problem. I don't agree with those people, but speaking in government-ese isn't how a person from the incumbent administration is going to effectively convince a Rogan listener that she represents meaningful change for THAT Rogan listener. The fact that a credible, educated person can't speak like an adult to half the electorate is troubling to me.
I think she made a principled choice to rise above the efforts to pull her down into the quagmire of identity politics. If she had, they would have harvested endless sound bites to attack her with. She trusted Americans to follow her on the high road because she believed in us. Sadly, collectively , we were unworthy of that trust.
I hate how we all are marginalizing DEI. DEI initiatives was never about giving unqualified people opportunities. DEI was about recognizing talent that went unnoticed due to race, color, ethnicity, and even geography. Now its become a dirty word. I thought it would never be considered bad not to consider diversity of thought as a value-added commodity.
Excellent. Beyond excellent. I'm sharing this conversation to everyone. Thank you for doing and posting this for us and our sanity. I couldn't manage my mental health w/o Bulwark. And I owe my mental health to all of you!
I am shocked when certain analysts (even Never Trumpers) say that Trump has charisma…in what universe does this thoroughly despicable, incoherent, and vicious man have charisma? I don’t see it. I’ll never see it.
Sam admitting that he's willing to trade rights away to make other people more comfortable is pretty sad to hear. Every minority group that becomes more visible is going to make people uncomfortable by virtue of their newness. It's not like any of this is new or doesn't have historical analogues
I’ve worked support in a HS for 5 years. We have 1,000 students. We’ve had 2(TWO) transitioning students. WTF is ANYONES problem?! Civil Rights for all, ALWAYS!
I think we all believe that on the sane side of politics. I think Sam Harris is arguing that we need to ignore the more extreme rhetoric on the far left (eg no biological component to sex) while still affirming the rights of trans people and everyone else.
The problem is girls' and women's hard fought civil rights are being shit on. How anyone thinks electing Trump would help, I have no clue....but the fox being in charge of the hen house is why people care.
@@ShainRaley the whole point of these conversations is that we shouldn’t be alienating people that we don’t agree with on every single issue. If you tell everyone who thinks differently that they’re a bigot, then you can forget about ever being in government again.
He pretends Dems only talk about trans people and pronouns and I am saying that is BS. He is right a lot of people are susceptible to “culture war” issues and Dems should learn not to take the bait, and understand how to talk about these issues without abandoning people in order to cater to the whims of bigots.
@@davidhoover3347 I even heard Gasparov quote him today. These guys themselves are uncomfortable with these issues and project this discomfort on millions of people. This is not to say this discomfort does not exist, obviously, but as Dems themselves have acknowledged in the election post-mortem (see f.i. Pod Save America with Plouffe et al.), Trump’s targeted ads on “the trans issue” probably did little to move Dem voters, but perhaps merely kept a small proportion of male voters of certain demographics from moving towards Dems.
Yeah I really don't get his position. On the one hand, he wants to say "trans people are people, gender dysphoria is a thing and society should accept and help those people" but also rants vaguely about trans activists. Like is his whole point tone policing? What specific policies is he advocating for changing or he just wanted Kamala to somehow distance herself from any trans policy while still being for it?
The reason why Kamala kept saying "I'll follow the law" is because gender reassignment surgery in prison was a law that came about during the Trump administration. I'll give you that she should have made that part clear, but I don't think it would make a difference.
Totally! I posted that as well. :-) When we're mentioning Kamala on the Trans topic, we should bring that up, as well. People need to understand the hypocrisy with Trump on that issue.
Yes, that`s correct, but it`s bad messaging. It would be better to say: "This isn`t an issue that actually exists, we care about trans people having human rights and we care about everybody being able to make a decent living. Therefore we want to implement ... policies." If you have more time you can elaborate that there is TWO PEOPLE in the prison system in the whole of the US who received trans care, at least that`s the number I heard. It`s literally not an issue. Pointing out what the law is and that dems just follow that law is too complicated and it`s not taking a stance, people wanna see candidates take a stance.
I think they decided there was nothing she could say to respond to that that wasn’t playing right into Trump’s hands. And it didn’t matter, because the idea that there was a sizable percentage of the electorate that would have been swayed by that issue is ridiculous. Being able to speak to these issues better would be great, but throwing parts of our coalition under the bus in a futile attempt to counteract MAGA culture war attacks makes Dems weak.
Respect and acceptance of others shouldn’t be a political liability.. And notice that even the “intellectuals” can’t make an argument without repeating extreme examples that don’t exist in reality! There’s so much dishonest, disingenuous messaging from the right that make it impossible for there to be unity politics.. My acceptance of others is not to blame for another’s ignorance and lack of a moral compass..
Maybe you should start accepting the fact that democracy is at some level a popularity contest and that it requires coalition building? I get that you think that everyone should just accept whatever politics you believe in because you consider your own position morally righteous, but this really just means you'll get an increasingly smaller and smaller range of support in society be it either because your opinions are fringe or because your strategy is to be condescending and exclusionary to anyone who believes different. I don't expect you nor Democrats in general to understand this point, Democrats wouldn't have been doing politics the way they have been doing it post-Obama if they understood.
There is no way that I believe that trump won this election free and fair. The ALGORITHM giving him the win, of the “POPULAR VOTE” on the record, is a bridge too far. The fix was already in. And he showed the billionaires by standing on stage, listening to music for almost 40 minutes, and he didn’t lose a vote. THIS WAS HIS WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.”
There is no way that I believe that trump won this election free and fair. The ALGORITHM giving him the win, of the “POPULAR VOTE” on the record, is a bridge too far. The fix was already in. And he showed the billionaires by standing on stage, listening to music for almost 40 minutes, and he didn’t lose a vote. THIS WAS HIS WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.”
@@Hooga89ok so who do you support then? Because you couldn’t possibly be a republican voter because their entire platform is based on culture war wedge politics of division and fear mongering.. They have no actual policy platform.. no healthcare policy or plan, no infrastructure policy or plan, they offer nothing of any actual substance to make people’s every day lives tangibly better.. Inflation isn’t controlled or created domestically, it’s a global problem. So now you can’t blame democrats for that you watch republicans stop talking about it.. All they will be doing now is finding social programs to slash to pay for tax cuts for billionaires who will only spend that extra money on stock buybacks that make them richer, while ordinary Americans get less of everything.. What you said in your reply to my post is just hot air because it’s not reality.. Just words..
There is a startlingly large amount of Americans of voting age who simply do no know and/or care about policies or issues and vote as if they’re voting for student council president. I’ve had grown adults ask me why I like Kamala Harris and I have to explain to them that I don’t. Liking a politician on a personal level is not a prerequisite for voting for them. Hell, I’d probably have a lot more fun hanging out with Trump than I would Biden or Harris. It still has no impact on who would vote for.
I'm a 3X Trump voter-- yet I agree with your underlining point. I think a lot of Americas vote for the candidate they 'like' on a personality-basis, rather than anything reflective of the actual job we're hiring these people to do. And there is a difference between liking a person vs. respecting/leveraging their ability to get shit done. In 1863, Abraham Lincoln was considering promoting a man to the position of General. Detractors said, "You can't promote this man-- he's a gambler, womanizer and tax dodger." Lincoln said, "That may be so-- but I don't see any reason why a gambler, womanizer or tax dodger couldn't whoop ass on a battlefield." To your point, the question is NOT, "do I like the personality of the man I'm voting for." Spoiler Alert-- I NEVER liked Trump's personality. BUT... why I keep voting for this guy is because: 1. He champions most of the line items I want to see addressed by my government. Things that I think will have a positive impact on my personal life. 2. He'll fight for these things despite opposition. I don't know if you noticed, but the guy has an uncanny ability to overcome obstacles that get his way, and push his agenda forward, even in the face of unsurmountable odds. In other words, if this was a beautify contest, I'd vote against him. If it was a personality contest, I'd vote against him. If it was a 'verbal skill/communication' contest, I'd vote against him. But national elections are none of these things. What they are is a decision to decide who is best qualified to manage a government that meets my personal needs and expectations. And, for me, right now... that answer is DJT.
@@thegreatinterpreter8382 i agree that we shouldn't like or certainly worship a candidate, which for me includes wearing tshirts, shoes, & hats; buy gold sneakers & worthless coins; etc. BUT he didn't do much- yea he built 50- 100 miles of fence, no wall & diverted other $$ for it bcoz nobody in their right mind thought mexico was gonna pay for it. Plus the man has 2 coastal monstrosities he calls home, grew up filthy rich, inherited millions yet rails against the elites & his people buy it. Good grief Edited 5x due to tremor pre posting mid sentence. Good lord
Absolutely I have this conversation with people constantly. Low information voters just voting for who they like getting flashbacks of people saying they liked George bush because he seemed like someone they would enjoy having a beer with complete brain rot. I constantly tell people I’m not a fan of Kamala but I’m more concerned with policies and the cabinet they would have around them
yes, but ignoring the Republicans greatest weapon (Which Dem's created and handed them) is what lost them the election. Result will be greater wealth inequality, dumb 'libtards' to be blamed.
well, wealth inequality about to increase faster than ever, way to go libs (create the identity politics weapon and hand it to R's to bludgeon us with).
Errrr....most Congresswomen could not care less if Sarah McBride uses the women's room. Or their locker room. Why is Sam Harris apologizing for Mace and Greene, who are trying to weaponize this issue?
@@djeanie4934 if Marjorie is involved it’s going to be disgusting and horrible. Anyone in politics should know that, and it makes me question him a lot to ever run apologia for that lady
All she had to say was that it is policy as prison health care and has been. They’ve been paying for it decades even under Trump. So she just had to talk about it being not her policy but a long standing policy. Sam has a history of being anti-Islamic & now he is anti-trans. People deserve rights
This garbage about public intellectualism, with its rigor and standards and principles, then sliding right into how he has very close friends who are so incurious and willfully oblivious that they just think Trump is funny and will shake things up and don't care about the insane ways in which he is destroying and will continue to destroy our republic is WILD. You want us to take you seriously when you hang out with MAGA-inclined weirdos? Nah, man. You are who you hang with.
I honestly do not get why so many people react to him that way. I don't find him snobbish or arrogant at all. He states his views clearly and strongly, yes, but that doesn't equate to arrogance for me.
I thought the same... Surprised Sam would use it. It's now just a trigger word, to label ideas that we're not supposed to like. To label people so we can ignore everything they say. It has nothing to do with whether someone is "woke" or not, it has to do with tribe. Great respect for Sam in most things, but I'd have thought he'd be aware of this one...
Sadly too, I was disappointed in Harris using 'woke'. Could his use of a hijacked term be a clue that Sam too has a Achilles heel? IMO, using 'woke' as a negative critical term tells us (1) you harbour secret conservative or right leaning sympathies or (2) you haven't thought of looking at the etiology of the term and how it was hijacked and weaponized by the right.
I heard a priest give a sermon, "U need an adult faith. I meet so many people who are savvy about business matters, civic matters, family dynamics, church, family interaction, everything, but, when it comes to religion, they sound like a 6-year-old." People like that (about politics) are vulnerable to manipulation.
Maybe because the poor encompasses everyone: all colors, creeds, nationalities, etc.. If we saw what we have in common vs what makes us different there's a risk that we might band together. "They" know the value of divide and conquer.
Agree 100%. One side's transgression is pronouns and the other's is fascism, and we should divide the blame equally between the two and even chastise the first side for making the other go completely insane with their pronouns and forcing them to adopt a fascistic ideology.
If Sam’s so concerned about facts. He needs to get his own facts straight first. For example: the woman boxer is a woman NOT a trans woman. The trans treatment in prison was a TRUMP administration policy. If he is going to critique VP Harris, it would just be that she should’ve spoken up about how it was a Trump policy. One of the reasons they threw the anti-trans ads at VP Harris was because it was actually their own policy. It was a bait and switch.
He needs to go fight this battle in his own party and stop trying to bring democrats to the right. That’s the worst possible direction for both the party and the country
You're missing the concept. The left has gone too far with identity nonsense and it has resulted in an easier justification for voting right, which presently consists of mostly far right personalities. This is blatantly a failure of normal politics and its embaracement of fringe and neurotic ideas and not the fault of the average American, who doesn't have the time to fret over every detail of political nuance. Its the narrow mindedness and lack of accountability that has lead to such a crazy political environment. Jan 6 aside, nothing is all that new here with Trump, Clinton and Nixon were profoundly immoral lunatics as well.
Listen, I live in the Bay Area, the gayest, most liberal area of the country. I have a daughter in high school. The only people talking about trans issues are Fox News, and politicians. These issues don’t exist in the real world.
If a progressive party doesn't stand up for the equal rights of marginalized individuals, they are failing what should be their first priority. And yes it seems to be the only people bringing this issue up these days are the Republicans
@@ratm9190I'm too lazy to look but I'm pretty sure someone approached her and asked about it. So on that alone, she wasn't bringing it up. People corner politicians on controversial issues all the time. What are you gonna say in that situation? She wasn't running on it.
The right made this into an issue. No one else cares as much as they do. As far as I can tell most trans or non binary folks just want to be treated equally and not made a fuss about. Note that you almost never hear a actual trans or nonbinary person shouting about it. Fox News? All f'k'n day!
Good on Tim for asking this guy about Sarah McBride. After spending 30 minutes telling us that Kamala Harris lost because she wasn't anti-trans enough, when asked about an actual, real trans person, this guy did the classic sidestep of "I did't know about that."
I'm so over the constant drone that the election was lost because of trans-rights, anything that can be labelled as woke, and the Me Too movement. Those things are Right-wing bugaboos but not what the majority of voters were upset about. It was that old saying "it's the economy, stupid". People were frustrated by high prices and they made the party in power pay for it. The border was also a problem, but I think the price of groceries was the main issue. I also blame the way the legacy media reported on the two candidates, holding Biden and Harris to one standard while normalizing Donald Trump.
except Tim being dishonest about the democrat's opinion on the issue. How could any of them possibly voice any opposing opinion to the party when one of them just got ripped apart for their common sense opinion on trans women competing in women's sports?
A study came out saying a majority of voters who voted against Kamala did so because they thought she cared more about niche social issues (trans) than them.
Let's face it, many on the left are doing the same thing. I don't hold him to a higher standard. It's natural for everyone to be emotional and confused at this time.
i don't think it helped her to not find a way to moderate the conversation, esp. with men. and being a woman, she was already behind the eight ball. it's not fair, it's not right but sadly it's the truth. until we democrats can look at ourselves and accept part of why we lost, we won't be able to win. winning is the goal. we have to stop calling everyone racists as well. we need to be able to talk about these difficult subjects.
You can't find data on anything like this. The only analysis will have to be qualitative and Sam Harris make a lot of sense in mentioning problems around the trans issue, on both sides.
100%!!! A million years ago I had respect for Harris. But then he became full out racist against Muslims. Back then that was his soapbox. Now it’s trans-issues. He is over the top. Really??? She lost the election because of trans-issues.
Lost me at ‘far left has cultural influence’. I was excited to hear his examples and wasn’t let down. His first one was people ‘vandalizing’ art. Ludicrous to think people this have influence. The only thing the people he lists off do is provide fodder, but that’s not reason to just buy the right’s weak ass criticisms.
Exactly. A handful of those incidents does not compare to the march of fascism in democratic countries. And pretending it's equal is a strategic lie that Sam Harris is helping spread.
Before WWI in the UK the suffragettes really vandalized works of art to draw public attention to their struggle for their right to vote. They had to do it because nobody cared. Women obviously didn't have a lobby in the places of power. They were locked up and mistreated for their actions. Male politicians only cared when women had to fill the vacancies left by the soldiers fighting WWI.
I just want these pretend pundits to switch up "trans" with "Asian" or "Black" and see if they feel good about themselves. Tim out there not even repping for the queer folk but I'm trying not to be too disappointed.
@@tammyshields2361 this supposed intellectual certainly has an axe to grind against trans people. He even admits the election loss was driven by post-pandemic rejection of incumbents and inflation. But then goes on a tirade against trans people.
@@tammyshields2361 Absolutely. The only thing more galling than the Trumpists’ spending more on anti-trans advertising than the government has ever spent on gender-affirming care - by a significant degree - is that that ad spending appears to have worked.
“The people screaming about DEI want Dr. Oz to be in charge of Medicare and Medicaid”. That genuinely made me burst into laughter. All of this is absolutely fucking insane.
@@Urgurl514 we elected a black man 2x. It's a woman we've not elected. Republicans will elect the 1st woman: thats pretty much the standard the world over.
@ exit polling. Of course no one is going to come out and say I voted for a low morale, racist, sexist, criminal because he’s white. You need to educate yourself. Read a little history.
I asked on another site for a definition of "woke.". The answers i got were all over the place, few of them being close to accurate. My concise definition of woke is one word "inclusiveness.". The golden rule put into effect: treat others as you want to be treated.
That's "golden rule", not wokeness. I hope this helps. To see honest definitions of wokeness and what are people's problem with it, you have to dig deeper. At least Wesley Yang deep, but probably, cancellable deep to be sure. Calling normies that think of themselves as tolerant for explanation of their non-tolerant political choices won't get you far.
The origin of this word is just an attempt by the black community to try to highlight the racial injustice that still exists in America. It’s was just a way to talk about allies who understood that black people are still not treated fairly in American society. People that were aware of this fact were “woke”, i.e., awakened to this truth. It’s the Right that perverted this concept because it was an uncomfortable truth. Many racists now use “woke” the same way they use the N-word. And it was the extreme Left that accepted this new definition so they could reject it. There’s a concept in information warfare. When you can get your adversary to adopt your terms and definitions, that’s a huge step towards winning the information war.
@@matthewmoore7447… I like your explanation. l cringe when I hear the word “woke” used. The word means different things to different people, most really don’t know what it is, yet is tossed around so easily.
It’s been a hard truth of the GOP for about 20 years, they have been willing to go along with just about anyone who furthered their influence or power. They almost never hold themselves accountable to their supposed values.
If Trump truly 'centers' white Christian identity, wouldn't his policies have explicitly excluded or disadvantaged non-white Christians or other minorities? Yet under his administration, Black and Hispanic employment hit historic highs, and his prison reform disproportionately benefited minorities. Odd behavior for someone allegedly fixated on only one group, right? Trump focuses on policies for everyone (like securing borders or promoting jobs) rather than pandering to a specific race. If he's just about 'whites', why the record gains among Hispanic and Black voters?
This is typical Sam Harris. He makes it seems that he’s an academic who tests his ideas against chance, bias, and with peer review. But he makes broad generalizations about many things without either quoting any research or pointing to anything that can verify his broad claims. There is no reason to think that the far left has “taken over” many American institutions, for instance. If Harris were a serious person, he would at the least provide definitions of these terms, how it happened, why it happened, etc. As far as I know, he never has. IMO, he’s a thoughtful, well educated version of the intellectual charlatans who are always talking.
This was so disappointing. I am a Bukwark fan and paid subscriber, and “woke maniac,” apparently. The amount of contempt towards trans people and civil rights advocates in this conversation was really disgusting. These people really are conservatives.
@@natashastovallph.d.3716 I absolutely agree! I usually love Tim Miller but this is disappointing for sure. Wish he’d challenged him more if he disagrees.
Exactly. 0.6% of Americans identify as trans. That’s a teeny tiny amount. Rationally we should only give it 0.6% of our national attention. But the Right has a way of demonizing trivial things. A true straw-man argument. “Don’t trust Democrats on trade policy because they want to turn your girl into a boy without your consent.” The fault lies in our human frailty. Without education, it’s easy for us to believe in lies. I suspect that’s a major reason the Right wants to hobble education in this country; to make it easier to control us.
I am happy Tim did at least push back about the trans issues and pointed out that the whole discussion in congress about which toilet to use is performative and none of these women is actually afraid of their colleague.
Here’s an idea: let’s not reduce Trans Americans to just a political branding issue. Literally just humans who deserve dignity, respect, and protective legislation. Also, they want lawmakers to get to work on the economy, so they can also pay their bills. ‘Magine that. 🙄
The Right-wing is obsessed with people's sexuality that is different from their own. Eye opener once again. My guess is they've been indoctrinated by religion
@@rosegarden3686peabrain, back up for a second. You're falling for THEIR trap if you think the Dems could have done anything vis a vis the Trans issue to win this election. The cake was baked on the economy. Period.
@@helendouglas9019 I think he came into the election already a TERF who seemingly has a huge blind spot on that one issue like a few other notable people in media like Dave Chappelle and JK Rowling. And they all seem to find themselves doubling down until they're persona non grata about it and then complain about cancel culture. Which really makes them the out of touch 'don't ask don't tell' crowd of the 2020s.
I believe Elon Musk is not an idiot, what he is doing has a purpose and it is to become more rich and powerful than anyone else in history, his egotistical behavior leads him to believe he is some sort of savior for humanity, he can't see the damage and pain he is causing to other because he is full of himself 11:41
If they define woke we will see that it’s simply inclusion of the marginalized people and realizing the systemic and social indoctrination of white supremacy. And this pushback usually makes them aware of this.
Gotta say I respect Sam’s spiritual wisdom. But his political acumen seems way off. I’m a Democratic Socialist and I can tell you with certainty that there is no “left” in this country! The so-called “left” position today would have been considered moderate right 30 years ago. Also, ease up on the trans people they are on a journey, not my journey, but whatever happened to “live and let live” in this country?
Without even realizing it, you just perfectly described why the far left are targeted so frequently... "Democratic Socialist". The only word heard is "Socialist". Here's a thought for all of those proud Democratic Socialists. Try saying "Social Democrat". It's the same thing but won't make people shut down or walk away the moment you speak.
Who is stopping freedom and pursuit of happiness of trans people?? You can have the same rights the rest of the people have but you cannot deny reality and say men can be a woman and insist others to part take in your belief when others do not belief it because it's completely denying reality
Typical woke comment ~ he does not have an ax to grind with trans people, he is simply saying why Dems lost ~ because they gave MAGA the bullets to shoot at them
To me, racism and not wanting a woman had a lot to do with it. As did the price of eggs falsely believing R's are better at inflation - a myth created by commercial media. And the overall feeling that life sucks VERY mistakenly believing trump can help with that. Also, being simple minded, makes his ppl think it's a piece of cake to solve complex problems. A convenient method disguising the fact he doesn't read & can't comprehend complex issues.
30:00 Sam falls into the GOP trap here. Why does she have to disavow her opinion about trans people from 5 years ago? Trump says 100 way worse things and disavows none of them.
According to voters, they weren't worse... you still can't understand it lol you live in a fantasy land, which is drifting further and further away from the real world (the place where you lost)
@@sethjohnson6012 Trump avoids every question he is asked - don't BS me with "they voted Trump because Kamala didn't answer straight questions" absolutely insane thing to say
You're being hyperbolic. Nobody is suggesting that this is THE reason Trump won. This is one element of the big picture. The big picture is a decade of far left nonsense being normalized by the center left. I can't imagine that you can't understand that.
Once upon a time, gay marriage activism did brand damage to Democrats too. But it was still a compassionate and noble cause, to champion the expansion of rights for a misunderstood and maligned minority of the population. Sure, some elements of trans activism probably go too far, or miss the mark, as is the case with all activism. But if the case against it is “voters don’t like it”, my response is “activism can change voters’ views”. Abandoning trans individuals to the hatred and scapegoating of Republicans may be utilitarian - but it is cowardly and ignoble. Winning elections is important, yes. But so are principles - as evidenced by the rampant moral decay of the Republicans, who have abandoned all their principles in pursuit of victory. And the principle of compassion and standing up for minority communities under siege is a core principle of modern Democrats.
Agreed. The Democratic Party is at its best and is honestly at its most likable when it doesn’t cower from civil rights issues. If democrats would have taken the Walz approach instead of the center-right approach to arguing trans issues (Aka they’re weird for obsessing over people’s genitals and most people care more about kitchen table issues), 1) they would have persuaded people and inspired people, not conceded the premise to the far right
Yes exactly. And really, if the trans issue was what convinced a third of our voters to actively hand our country over to a treasonous dictator then I'm really not sure what could have saved us.
No, it nails it. I see this in my own social circle. They are insecure about the accomplishments of people they see as lower than them, doing better than them.
I don't disagree with the quote or agree with Sam, but question how much we can apply it to *the people Kamala needed to win over*. The usual intended meaning behind the quote highlights why I think she lost. The Democrat's progressive movement has traditionally not considered class as an identity. I think because until the last few decades, we didn't really need to. Mostly white, rural and suburban Americans were heavily privileged. We could focus on systemic issues involving race, sex, etc... Uplifting and providing opportunities to minorities and the disadvantaged. There's still a lot of work left, but wealth inequality has grown so much that recognizing class as an identity and showing you represent a progressive movement that isn't going to leave those people behind is essential in an election this close. Biden won their votes because of his pro-union, pro-worker background. A lot of them would have also voted for Bernie, because his message always prioritized class alongside things like race, gender, and sexual orientation. We've got to remove the stigma that white working class voters are inherently bigoted. Many are. But most aren't motivated by hate but instead they want to feel they are being represented.
In terms of GenZ, this crazy political environment is all they know. When we stop pretending that institutional norms and proper decorum matter as much as they used to, we’ll have a clearer idea how best to communicate with them
51% of the nation loves him enough to vote for him. Maybe you need to find a country that is more compatible with your personality. Have you looked into North Korea?
@@Stand_By_For_Mind_Control I think most of the people doing the Trump dance did not actually vote for him. They just like flying a MAGA flag on their pickup so everyone knows they are not the type that suckles on the government teat. But if they actually all went and voted. I am sure the final numbers would be well over 50 percent. Do you think all those black guy doing the MAGA rap in the hood ACTUALLY sent in a ballot for Trump? Naa
@@brucegruetzmacher5891Trump supporters are not more than half the country. They’re not even half the country. Look at how many people are in the United States and compare that to how many actually voted for Trump 😂
As a leftie leftist, I admit to being very frustrated by the shouting down of all other opinions but those of the far left, especially in our universities (one of the reasons I'm at grad school in Europe). But I cannot help but marvel at the wonderful progress that got us things like marriage equality. When I was in high school and had gay friends, no one ever said it out loud. We all knew they were gay, but you didn't talk about it. By the time I was in college, we talked about it. And then a decade after I graduated, gay people were getting married. Don't get me wrong: I hate the people who would get in your face over not knowing someone's pronouns. But if the far-left didn't push as hard as they did, would we have marriage equality now? Or would Tim be hiding his sexuality now? Sometimes it takes a bit of radicalism to get the wheels turning.
Nobody decent on the left is anti-trans rights. But using tax-payer money for criminal illegal immigrants' sex changes, or encouraging minors' sex changes, is insanity. We need to know where to draw the line.
It's almost Newtonian - in order to overcome societal inertia and budge things even slightly to the left, someone needs to pull to the left as hard as they can.
And let us not forget the need to stay vigilant. Those who're trying to curtail people's rights have never completely relented and have made it clear again and again that they're hell bent on going back to the old status quo. I remember BS promising many years ago, before "woke" was a thing and before they decided to focus solely on trans people, that there would be a backlash against LGBTQ people. He also compared same sex marriage with PD, which was one of the reasons people were shouting him down. They drive people to the farthest corners of society yet expect no reaction from them, and when people finally do something to defend themselves, they call them extreme. Another thing that's rarely discussed is how the hate brigade has moved to other countries, particularly in Africa. Figures from the American right have bankrolled several governments and successfully convinced them to impose the capital punishment, causing an exodus of refugees fleeing this brutality. When they saw that hate was retreating in America, they decided to export it. That's why people need to stay vigilant.
You’re not describing leftists, you’re describing _liberals_. There’s a big difference. Liberals/democrat party is not left wing, it’s not moderate or middle of the road. The Overton window has moved so far the right that democrats have been adopting policy from the republicans. I know we’re all stuck living when and where we live, but there is this whole world out there, yet we like to pretend there is nothing we can learn from other nations or just refuse to acknowledge anything exists outside of our tiny bubbles.
The democratic party's continued negligence of the impact this has had on its public perception has been, just was, is, and will continue to be a major obstacle to their goals.
MAGA don’t believe that trans ppl even exist… how and why tf should we be arguing over such specifics. Sam is crazy af and doesn’t even recognise where the right are… there are no rightwing pro trans politicians…
Fascinating discussion. The Bulwark gets fantastic guests. I found myself increasingly interested by Sam Harris's video call background. It is, of course, intentional. Half intellectual. Half strong, steadfast. On the side of the light, on the side of good. I like it.
It is, I listened to Sam for probably 3 or 4 years before it started really getting to me at the height of his IDW days. He is definitely smart, but he let's his personal conclusions take on the air of a reality so obvious the rest of society is simply stupid for ever having considered it. That is upsetting. His opinions about trans people has been slightly affected by this, but it's more prevalent in his opinions about Muslims, which i largely share but the way in which he communicates them is incredibly belittling. I can only listen to him sparingly, and do.
@@rosegarden3686 @rosegarden3686 not at all...I fully admit Sam is far more intelligent and knowledgeable thank I am, but nat a fan of arrogance. One can be smart without being brusk. Perhaps you missed the point of my original response.
I had to start skipping ahead because he seemed to make his point and then… kept talking and talking and talking. It became clear that Sam thinks the trans issue was what swung the election because he is personally put off by it.
Does Mr. Harris even know any trans people personally? How unfortunate that people use others as political footballs. Tim please consider having more balance on this show. Thanks or discussing matters calmly at least.
I love you Tim, buuuuut Sam Harris is a HUGE intellectual A-hole! For 90% of black men who have been pulled over by the police, getting police to wear body cams and understand that ... Black Lives Do Indeed Matter ... has changed that dynamic 180 degrees.
Right! He talks calmly as though enlightened but he’s not. We know from exit polling that black people are the only racial group that showed up. They have fought for everyone’s rights over this country’s history to be abandoned continuously by all the people they helped free. When we criticize or blame blm, we are saying the very people who have created our liberal society…a society where people who aren’t straight white men (Sam Harris) can live free from persecution..that those people should not be free of it themselves. He should be ashamed of himself, and I don’t think he’s as intelligent as he fancies himself
I don't think we should literally defund the police, but I don't blame people for being pissed at cops for their bad conduct. I don't see the "activist base" as a large problem, if anything it's all the more reason to support sensible moderate reform to restore trust in government institutions.
I'm a white guy from Australia so I literally have no skin in the game, pun intended.. but I sincerely don't think Sam would ever think that black lives, nor any life didn't matter... From what I interpreted he was saying the movement was unfortunately hijacked and subverted by left wing extremests
@@delta5297 We got to be able to hold two truths in our minds at he same time. Police in the US can be brutal. Some Black Americans need to have more careful deference to police in their interactions. In other words, yes we have a police brutality problem in America, and yes black people need to be more careful in their interactions with police. I said it, so in a two party political system in which moderates don't have a significant say, I just pissed off the Republicans and the Democrats and have just been 'primaried' by both sides. And this moderate now can never be elected.
I am impressed by how the interviewer pushed back on Sam Harris. I am a long time admirer of Harris' intellect and insights, but I feel he has a few odd blocks in his normal critical thinking. One is his patently (to use his word) emotional issues around transgender minorities and especially his getting all tied up around bathroom use. I am a South African and here we take for granted same sex marriage and gender rights. The laws were smoothly passed a ling time ago, with little fuss. This all in a conservative society. To illustrate: at our regional national broadvaster (conservatively minded) a video editor commenced gender reassignment treatment. There was a short note in the weekly staff newsletter letting staff know that editor concerned would from a certain date be using the female bathroom and would staff please respect this. Nobody blinked an eyelid. Life went on in our conservative imstitution....or are we just maybe way more aware and thoughtful than the American psyche?
Agreed! I watched as much as I could, but didn't quite make it to the end. When he started talking (with great "authority" it seemed) about trans issues and identity politics, he completely lost me. Show me where, at any point, Kamala ran on those agenda items... matter of fact, I'd challenge anyone to point to a speech or interview where she initiated a conversation with those talking points. My problem with all of this is this: What's in it for Mr. Harris to repeat these false narratives???
@@jeffbeadle973Tell me if this would sound crazy : "Trump didn't run on banning abortion. How can anyone attach that idea to him." Trans ideology is attached to the democratic party whether you like it or not. Even if she specifically disavowed the trans agenda, it wouldn't fool anyone. Look at her pivot to being a border hawk. No one believd her.
For the same reason they vilify immigrants, even legal status immigrants: someone else to blame so they don't realise that it's actually the wealthy 1%'s fault
because its breaking reality, you are basically telling X is Y but when actually X is just X and can never be Y. Its defying reality in front of you eyes
Can someone define trans activism. I keep hearing it used but I obviously am in the wrong crowds so don’t know what the hell it refers too. I’m fascinated that it holds so much sway with people. I don’t get it.
Exactly, I can't name one "trans activist" or an activist group, or any activist protests that aren't counter protesting. All the noise is coming from the republican side.
Same I REALLY don’t get it! I am simply a person who doesn’t care what others do. That makes me a trans activist?? What happened to the golden rule? When did decency become political?
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is uncomfortable about this discussion of the "trans issue" as opposed to trans people. It's a bit shocking, to be honest. MAGA made it an issue, not Dems. Dems simply added the group to the ever-growing circle of inclusiveness. Here's the bottom line, though, and they discussed it here. The political arena has a double standard, notably in the news media. Dems are held to a standard they aspire to, while MAGA has no standards. The basic agreements of kindness, honesty, and loyalty (I could go on) have been tossed out. They are in a win-win situation with their faithful followers and with those who don't watch them closely. They project onto Dems the very things they are doing and deny it (or ignore it) when confronted about it (i.e., doggedly attempting to manipulate which ballots are counted). How in the ever lovin' hell can the Dems compete with that? It's upside-down world. The only hope I have is based on how close this election was. It seems that at least 50% are paying attention.
Which is basically what Sam was saying, and that the only relatively "sane" party's only hope is to actually behave more sanely, and not kowtow to the extreme fringe left ideologies.
@jontreeatreeify Is protecting trans Americans extreme? Or are we talking about Kamala's decision to enforce a law that had already been passed (to provide needed medication to trans prisoners)? The Harris campaign did everything but promote "leftist" ideas about LGBTQ issues, withdrawal of support for the devastation of Palestine, etc. I find these ideas to be common sense. I'm asking for examples of Dems pushing extreme leftist ideology. The MAGA claim about public schools performing gender reassignment surgeries is nonsense.
Thank you, great point. And a grossly ignorant stance on grown ass women in government not letting another rep use a stall who identifies female and is zero threat! Ridiculous bullying and bigotry- make a separate bathroom like making someone drink at a separate water fountain - tell me I’m wrong? Zero threat!
Tim, I’m sorry you had to go through this. He’s oozing with contempt for us, with no enlightenment whatsoever. I’m no longer sure Sam is as smart as he thinks he is. I found him creepy.
It's unbelievable isn't it? I don't think I've seen somebody fall harder or further faster than he has. I can't believe I'm listening to the same open minded man and he is so brainwashed by the mainstream media narrative in the Democratic party lies. It's really sad
The thought of living here for the next four years is so depressing. It didn’t have to be this way. In my opinion, if there were no social media, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I’m old and I’ve seen everything go to shit with social media.
I actually never heard of this guy until recently. He strikes me as a know-it-all and quite full of himself. A less shitty Jordan Peterson, but still shitty, maybe?
@ Sam Harris is a well known atheist. He wrote a defense of torture during the Iraq war. He was part of the IDW as well (Bari Weiss made them famous) and is very anti Islam. IDW all turned out to be far right cultural warriors.
@@scottharte19 Sam Harris was part of Bari Weiss’s IDW. He disavowed them eventually, (Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro etc). But they were all very anti-Islam, anti left, culture warriors. They are likely responsible for much of what we hear from the right today.
Agreed. I'm 45 min in and I don't find Sam's opinions particularly insightful or based on real information. It's a lot of social media narratives regurgitated.
Sam Harris is right that the far left often means something most people disagree with when they say “trans women are women”-such as erasing all distinctions between trans and cis women. However, the center and moderate left use the same slogan to advocate for inclusion and rights in ways that fit comfortably within the public’s Overton window. The issue is that the right exploits this ambiguity, painting the entire left as extreme, while the left struggles to articulate these differences clearly. What’s far more concerning, though, is the real harm being done to young people who face the sudden termination of their gender-affirming care and social support. This can lead to devastating outcomes, including mental health crises. Moreover, the “first they came for…” parable is a stark reminder of the broader implications: the right disproportionately targets trans people because it serves as a strategic wedge for advancing censorship in schools, libraries, and healthcare; dismantling workplace nondiscrimination protections and benefits; and normalizing cruelty and dehumanization. The apparent equanimity among many in the anti-Trump coalition since our election loss-embracing the idea that we can cede policy ground by abandoning trans people-is deeply disturbing. It suggests a willingness to sacrifice the most vulnerable in pursuit of broader political gains, which undermines the very liberal-democratic and civil-society principles our coalition claims to defend.
I don't think that "there are zero differences between cis and trans women" is a talking point I've ever heard from any leftist. I've heard it as a chant and as a stonewalling rebuttal, but never as a substitute for "there are zero differences between the bodies/experiences/etc. of cis and trans women". From what I've seen, trans acceptance across the entire left spectrum is about recognition, legal rights, access to resources, and dignitity.
Well articulated, thank you. Sam Harris is very privileged to be able to view time used to talk politics as merely an opportunity cost, and to look down (with blame!) at progressive activists as a frivolous class.
@@gpwaltz Well, that’s the difficulty of trying to understand the motivations behind a talking point whose premise you disagree with-finding a way to even talk about it that both accurately describes it and is comprehensible to its opponents. What’s your understanding of how “trans women are women” - which, to me as well, sounds perfectly reasonable - became a radioactive slogan? It isn’t like this is a critique I’ve never heard from anyone but Sam Harris.
@@TreyHarris It's a difficult slogan. I like Natalie Wynn/Contrapoints' take, which is (IIRC) that it's a slogan that virtue signals to people who are already on your side, but at the same time invites the knotty (and kinda irrelevant!) philosophical question "What is a woman?" And that a more tangible, compelling slogan might be "Trans liberation now!" What are the demands of trans liberation? How would they get it? When you set your opponent up to now define and defend *womanhood*, you are fighting the wrong battle, IMO. I support trans rights, but that's not contingent on me having a water-tight definition of womanhood or believing that every single trans woman is this transcendentally "feminine" person. Gay people don't have to prove to me that they only have romantic and sexual attraction toward the same sex. It's about understanding what these people are asking for out of society/community/government.
I cannot get past Sam Harris comparing the dangerous facist bent of the far right with and maybe annoying need to add your pronouns even if you're obviously cis of the far left. Like, protesting by taping yourself to art pieces and protesting by storming the literal capital is NOT. THE. SAME. WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE PEOPLE?
If it were up to me, we'd all be they, them. This wish has nothing to do with gender dysphoria. It has to do with the fact that as a female born in the despicable 1950s having the pronoun "she" meant I had to be twice as good to get the job as those labeled "he", that I wouldn't receive the promotion I had earned, that I was presumed to be unintelligent by default and that I was going be judged more on whether I was attractive enough to fuck than my other attributes. And if I were judged as meeting the fuckable criteria, fucking might be put forward as a requirement of employment.
I'm a pretty big news junkie, and I've never even heard of that art thing or even some of these other "wok" people Sam brought up around that same sentence. So there's no freaking way that the people who voted for Trump writ large heard of those things either, much less were driven to vote for him because of it.
Sam has such a great vocabulary and is able to articulate complicated issues in a well understood way. Amazing and very rare and valuable human being IMO. 😊
Twenty-five, thirty years ago it was the gays and lesbians who were the far left and scaring the normies with their calls for marriage rights, etc. I don't think blaming trans people for being too weird is helpful. Defund the police was a little nuts.
Sam Harris is not anti-trans. He's simply pointing out that the perception from the right about trans people was a powerful motivator in the election. Of course, much of that was misperception with right-wing outlets focusing in on the worst examples of far-left over-reach. There's a reason the Trump campaign ran that ad with Kamala stating she supports taxpayer sex changes for prisoners over 30,000 times in swing states. It's because perception is reality in presidential politics and this issue contributed to Trump winning the election.
More specifically, it’s a “straw man” argument. Example, “Don’t trust Democrats on trade policy because they want to turn your girl into a boy without your permission.” Then typically the argument becomes about how no, Democrats are not trying to turn your girl into a boy, rather than discussing the differences in trade policy between Democrats and Republicans.
This is such a dangerous attitude. It's a bigger issue than you could possibly imagine. I'm a democratic voter all my life and even I have though about raising a kid and having teachers secretly discussing their sexual identity without me present. It's a horror story.
@@mikeyj.phillyi just don’t believe there are many teachers out there doing that. Btw - i am a teacher. They are using the same fear mongering rhetoric they used to demonize gay and lesbians 20 years ago. It’s an invented problem intended to marginalize people.
Sam confirms yet again the double standard that Harris faced. She said one thing on record 4-5 years ago and she's still crucified over it, but Trump says dozens of offensive, extreme, and outright false things every day and it's "what are you going to do? That's just Trump being Trump." The fact that so much of this interview is about trans issues says more about Sam than anything else.
Because Kamala was running on being better than Trump, not the same
@@mikeyj.phillyShe is better than Trump as MAGAs will discover
@@lhoward9593 You think that is relevant to the discussion of winning the 2024 election? Or are you just venting personal shit?
Or perhaps Sam understands how much the trans issue resonates with a great many of us. In fact, it might have been enough to sway the election to Trump. Here in Michigan they played the "trans" campaign ad repeatedly! That sort of thing strikes home, while generic appeals to "not go back" just sound like empty air.
Exactly. Mental gymnastics to avoid the real issue
Speaking from my point a white 77 year old grandmother trying to keep up with the changes in our world. I desided not to go certain places technical. I just know right from wrong. You tell the truth, treat others like you would want to be treated, and do not judge others until you have walked in their shoes. The minute Trump came on board I knew my world was in Great Danger.
My mom had the same response. While the rest of my family is well into the cult. I'm so proud of her, for living her values, instead of just preaching them.
That is exactly what distinguishes hardcore Trump supporters from normal people. Almost all of them are, like Trump, utterly amoral, and the few who have personal morals do not demand the same of their politicians for whatever reason. I hate Trump not because of his policies (to the extent he actually has any), but because he's a POS.
I agree with your values and agree with your disapproval of all things Trump.
Exactly, how anyone who cares about others could find trump entertaining or funny is beyond me. 65 and I voted Harris, never trumper.
Nice to see a 77 y/o with the right TH-cam Algorithm 😊
Sam's right that the GOP doesn't violate its standards because it has none to violate.
It's been said about the left that if it weren't for double standards, they wouldn't have any either. Don't be scared about government spending oversight ....
@mikegoetz3184 republicans always add to the debt. Democrats bring down the debt Bill Clinton gave George Bush a surplus and Bush blew that out of the water. Trump added 8 trillion and Biden brought that down.
@@mikegoetz3184government spending oversight is one thing. Slashing the ACA , Medicare/Medicaid and social security is entirely different. Getting rid of the Department of Education and NOAA is absolutely insane.
Trumpism has given Republicans the belief that unethical behavior is fine as long as our side wins.
@ ever notice that education has been going down hill since the inception of the Dept of Education ? Imagine how much cheaper health care and insurance would be if all poisons / toxins were mandated out of our foods ....
thank you for this discussion. I'm looking to Bulwark more and more for conversation that I can trust to the degree that the contributors are either expert in their fields or display educated opinions and moral scruples. This channel has gotten me through the past few years.
I have loved watching Tim’s arc. He’s now almost consistently left of Sam Harris now. It’s because Tim has a spine and a heart.
I’m encouraged by Tim as he sees the folly in dogmatic political stances. He is more honest, reflective and humanist than any “republican”:I can think of.
And he’s cute!
We're all on the same side, this is sheer lunacy have you forgotten what we are having to contend with
Tim has said he was never really socially conservative. He’s conservative in regard to fiscal and foreign policy. So it makes sense that a socially conservative Democrat would be to Tim’s right on social issues.
Yes he is! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
What I find amazing is EVERY trans-person I have had interaction with they are THE most understanding and reasonable about others not fully understanding their situation. Nothing like what we hear from the frigging media.
most trans people are sensible people, but a good chunk of trans activists are batshit insane.
I've found a much wider range of attitudes among trans people. People who behave as you describe and others who attack you if you acknowledge the concept of biological sex. The media likes to focus on the latter.
The trans panic isn’t about reality, it’s about people who feel threatened by changing world views. These folks clearly don’t know any actual trans people or have heard their personal stories of bullying and erasure. There’s reactionary mentality among the center and center-left is shocking. Real trans people don’t deserve to be the elitists’ scapegoat.
I know perhaps half a dozen trans people. They are about as wonderful and annoying as anyone else. Its almost entirely a nothing burger.
@JDK516 i think biological sex is not the issue it the gender part that many give no respect to
I don't like that tolerance of personal autonomy is fringe. LGBTQ + rights shouldn't be taboo. Intolerance should be taboo.
There was a libertarian freedom group of trump supporters that are now anti freedom. It’s hard to understand
It's not tolerance. It's bullying people to put pronouns in their signature block, etc
@@TheHSIHP this is so not a real issue. I've worked in corporate tech jobs since 1999 and never once was I bullied, never once did anyone I worked with felt they were bullied. No one actually cares.
@@TheHSIHP did that happen to you?
@@TheHSIHPwhat bullying? I think the point was the only place that was happening was online. A Twitter bubble, if you will.
If quoting Hitler does not get voters to reject Trump, there is NOTHING Kamala could have done.
All the ridiculous Hitler talk...and the Dems lost on a historic level. Maybe you need to re-think where you get your news?
All she had to do was denounce the liberal extremist
You are so right. Making a compelling case for why people should vote for her would have been a complete waste of time.
If Kamala has to rely on a Hitler analogy instead of showcasing her record, it says more about her failure to inspire than about Trump's faults.
Let me get this straight: caring about the rights and well-being of trans people is so offensive to some that they would rather support someone like Trump, who has a history of abuse allegations? As a Black woman, the transphobia I’m hearing from Sam is deeply alarming.
I’ve never heard of a single trans person harming children. If MAGA supporters genuinely cared about protecting kids from abuse, they would focus on addressing clergy abuse rather than covering it up. Some of these churches have become unsafe environments for children.
Sam & Tim: Under Trump's administration, he signed into federal law a policy requiring prisons to offer inmates medical and gender affirming care. This was in 2018. Kamala brought this up several times. And she had a commercial about it during the same times Trump did. So, maybe we needed her to be more out loud with it, like Trump was, but please, when talking about this, just be careful with your information.
That policy was based on changes to the guidelines that Obama made while leaving office. Kamala affirmatively supported that policy - and then some. Policy that MOST people thought was so insane, they literally didn't believe it until shown the video (observation from Trump's campaign testing). Literally, my brother thought I was lying when I told him what Kamala said. It is insane. Completely insane.
This. She “followed the law” just like the Trump admin did.
@@mitsumeeshi unfortunately for Sam, asking him to be careful re: the “info” he’s spreading requires far more effort than he’s actually willing to put into anything. Well accept for his Islamophobia. He stops at nothing to spread that as thick as possible.
Trump never signed a federal law requiring trans surgeries for inmates. The BOP simply decided in a budget memo that they would start allowing it. Also, not a single federal inmates recieved surgery during the first trump administration. That occurred during Biden term. Go read the NYT article. Its a good thing chevron deference is gone and unelected bureaucrats won't make such crazy decisions.
I've loved sams work. I pay for all 3 of his subscription offerings: podcast, substack, and meditation. Tbs, I'm only 10 minutes in and he is not making good arguments here. Accusing Elon of being a drug addict, throwing out false qoutes, and challenging David Sacks to debate Anne Applebaum. Lol sacks would vanquish her quite easily BTW. Elon has used ketamine Legally under professional supervision. This idea that he's tweeting from a k hole every day is an epic strawman built by Harris.
Harris shouldn't cry about Elon going after him directly after attacking him on his own podcast.
ELON MUSK IS NOT AN ENGINEER!
He has a Bachelor in Economics and in Physics from the University of Pennsylvania.
He inherited a lot of money and invested it well by buying different tech companies. The companies were founded and are run by actual engineers. He is just the owner and the charismatic figurehead of these companies.
Yeah WHY did he keep referring to Elon that way? I should have stopped there
Omg Elonia loses credibility everyday.
Charis-what?
End of the Monopoly game: when one player has so much money they can’t lose no matter what they do.
@@alwaysamy4There is a lot of money in the US, and he wants as much as he can get.
Maybe because i am a psychiatrist, i never find trump funny---at best i find him sad, at worst dangerous and vindictive. I didn't even find him watchable on the Apprentice.
It is delusional to promote democracy when the country is owned by Citizens United & billionaires. see video: Morpheus: "You are a slave, Neo."... A Prison for Your Mind | The Matrix | [wage slavery]
Both parties support endless war funds. The country has been a joke since Nixon. The public is taken for a mobster's ride. We are being set up for inflation which is class war. Joe Rogan has idiots on his show too. What we need is a national soapbox and some rational management of who gets to stand on it for how long.
@sjkcmd Agreed. If by funny they mean shameless and embarrassing, maybe? But he's not actually funny. His followers and staff tend to laugh at his "jokes" in the way one obligatorily laughs at a not very funny boss, making a not very funny joke.
@@cmonkey272pity at best, sadly vindictive mental narcissistic psychopath when I ponder. Never could see what anyone saw in him.
@@cmonkey272He’s funny if one finds bullying and degrading others funny, which I don’t.
As a non-psychiatrist, I can confirm that Trump has never made me laugh intentionally, and so I don't think that it's unique to your cohort. I've laughed AT him countless times, though, like when he exclaimed, "THEYRE EATING THE DAAAWGS!" during the debate. I thought then that it should have sealed the deal as an affirmation of his insanity, but alas, I was mistaken.😢
I'm a fairly conservative person raised by church going Catholics, married for 40 years and you know what, I also don't give one care in the world about whether a trans person uses the same bathroom as myself. I DO care when people are shunned from fully participating in society. Young people are NOT wrong when they want change from the status quo.
Double standard, Trump didn't have to disavow any of the things that he has said and done. Including all the the lies!!!
This drives me insane!
And if she had disavowed trans activism in any explicit way she would have lost support on the left. This is never part of anyone's math and it's infuriating. Left-leaning voters will punish their candidates for heterodoxy, and sometimes both sides of an issue are in the faction, such as with Gaza this year. Millions of people were going to stay home no matter what she said on that subject, it was just a matter of *which* millions.
Sam Harris has no idea what he's talking about sadly he doesn't know real people
Then people like Sam come through and blame the left.
@@mustermas he was just plain annoying
Kamala had to be perfect but Trump got a pass on all his bullshit! Give me a break!!
She had to be flawless, he’s allowed to be lawless.
It was the very fine people hoax that people to the drinking bleach hoax then the Russian pee pee hoax to the "He flushed Nuclear secrets down the toilet hoax.
We Democrats based everything on hoaxes. We should have been honest. We should have said that we proudly suckle on a government teat by using the government's monopoly on force to fund the government teat that we all so proudly suckle. The American people need to make a choice. Do they want to join us in suckling in the government teat. Or do they want to remain a freedom loving MAGA type and have the Democrat boot of tyranny put on their throats.
Instead we made up 1000 hoaxes that could be easily debunked
Sam says here it would have been easy for Kamala to debunk this flurry of defamation.
WRONG.
She probably even did it, but the media (incl. e.g. Twitter) would not spread it. It did not matter whether blatant lie or not, any defamation was spread - and that is so primitive that it sticks.
Like the AI image of her in red communist uniform.
I can follow Sam that the left has some loony guys with even more loony ideas, but that is also a result of the untethered chaos of ideas that the left allows, but where most people just subscribe to small subsets.
While the (often christian) right is bound to subscribe to the complete set of dogmas their peers define for them.
A conspiracy I could readily imagine is that currently the whole west is flooded by Putin-financed and Putin-designed Agitprop (the perfect word for it) to disrupt, divide and destabilize these societies.
And we are vulnerable to that.
Up to now each party wanted to pursue their interests - under the restraint of maintaining a functional peaceful society.
No restraint needed by Putin, expert ex-KGB agent. The more chaos, the better for him.
And the western oligarchs also have no issue with a depression, they feel too big to fail, for them a depression is an opportunity to buy up all the broke enterprises for nothing and multiply their power.
But it's true. It sucks. It's awful. It's not fair. But it's true.
Because people like Sam manipulated their audiances to be fearful and distrusting of others. Gaslighting is a term overused but in this case his explanation of the elections is just a cover for how the right has hypnotized a large swath of the American public into states of hate and anger. Trump just rode that wave as he rode the wave of Gop bs. They are the problem and any one from that world pointing at Dei as the problem is just furthering the lie.
Again people saying this😡Kamala needed to do more of this or that. While Trump was insulting everyone, lying everyday, doing and saying insane and nasty things. The racist horror at MSG. Kamala did her best, she had great plans(not concepts)she is super qualified, smart, intelligent, great human being with morals and principles, but I guess half of this country wanted the horror show.
🤷🏻♀️
Right, the infantilizing of Trump voters is mind-boggling to me. At what point do they become accountable for the active choice that they made? Or is it always going to be a trans person's or a black woman's fault for not doing enough?
I agree and this guest pissed me off.
@@Talk2mom121Yeah, I find him to be a complete tool. Smug AF.
Less than half of Americans voted for this! Too many people sat this out
The Harris he describes is not who I saw.
Much respect for you, Tim. I appreciate the way that you interview and have these conversations. Thank you for pushing back when it’s necessary.
Sam spent 90% effort talking about 1% issue…. LGBTQ is not the focus… the $$$, control and power behind the rise of fascism is the focus….
Sam blames trans people and the left for Trump. That’s Sam’s whole shtick and he ain’t changing for nothing 😂
the $$$, control and power behind the rise of socialism is the problem
You ppl have to seriously calm down. If enough of you delude yourselves into believing this, you will actually destroy the country.
lol. Still going on about the fascism thing?
Good luck with that, and I hope you enjoy continuing to lose.
@@erc9468 These ppl are so far gone.
As someone who actually lives around the masses that voted for Trump... I'm sorry Sam but you talking about her needing to articulate a specific position more, or try to say she changed her mind on the trans stuff couldn't be more futile.
People here in the Midwest would've just blamed her for swapping her stance on trans and used it against her. To think that people voting for Trump need to hear anything more articulated, is just wrong.
Sure maybe it helps the silicon valley billionaires swap their vote for her to fight 'woke'... But After listening to Tim interview multiple of these rich people, it's clear that they were looking for any and every reason to vote against her.
She could have been giving away cancer cures for free at hospitals in Iowa and the dying cancer patients would simply say, "gotta die sometime... Maga"
Appreciate the info mate, but the war is against social media and the need to fight false info.
This guy seems to suffer from "Los Angeles Derangement Syndrome." I get it, I was born and raised in CA. It can be weird. But he's lost the plot. He actually thinks the whole country is like LA, I guess? He needs to get out more.
@@ShainRaley exactly. I think he spent too much time on college campuses too cause these woke trans stuff is prevalent there but IRL people are just living their life
@@Chibabachacho It's actually a bit depressing that college campuses are still emersed in woke dogma. With no way to wake them from their dogmatic slumber due to the political breakdown of campuses. (E.g., in 1970 it was basically 1:1. In 2022 the humanities was at something like 50:1 D to R.) And you know if they ever gain power over social media and news media again, they'll force it on everyone. Basically living w/ this shit over our heads for the rest of our lives.
YES! i keep saying we will continue to lose unless we go after the maga media brainwash machine.
Agree. It's online brainwashing. She addressed every major issue (even young men's) and had policies to help with economic struggles and women's bodily autonomy; she communicated them simply, with joy and hope, and was inclusive of the old right and the far left. They chose an inarticulate rapist/felon/conman, high on hate, who promised to destroy democracy. And the talking heads are nitpicking her campaign and liveability? It's absurd.
I appreciate Tim (and The Bukwark) offering guests with different points of view. It strikes me as Sam was describing Kamala’s failure in responding to trans activism that when he was asked how he would respond to the bigoted moves by Nancy Mace and Mike Johnson, he struggled to come up with a clear answer for a topic he seems really passionate about. It’s hard to admit when you think a specific group or population doesn’t really matter but it would be helpful for folks to start off being honest. Clearly this is a small population of our country but a complicated issue. Politics is personal and as someone who has a close family member who is trans, I don’t want to see them vilified for just existing. That vilification often starts at the top. Sam’s falling back to Kamala not being smart or articulate as an excuse rings sort of hollow too and smacks of the nonsense we heard from the tech side during the campaign. Did he not listen to any of her speeches, any of her rallies, her incredible debate performance? This line of reasoning is insane and doesn’t fit the reality - it burned me when I heard that during the campaign and it really burns me now.
Yup, just like abortion. It's none of your business, Sam. Wow Conservatives are soo obsessed with other people's private sexuality. 😮
Meanwhile, Trump is a liar and a psychopath - and sounds like exactly what his former cabinet members described him as - a moron. I guarantee you that if Kamala were a white man, she would be acknowledged as brilliant and capable.
I am a huge Sam fan but I agree he doesn't have the trans thing right. he talked about excessive mastectomies but far more straight males get breast reductions than trans folx but no one has a problem with that. Also just because the extreme right has gone nuts and created this politicized trans "issue" does that mean we are supposed to mute our support of trans people? It's true that the extreme maga right is exploiting fear and ignorance by attacking trans people and making it a political issue for which the left is going to have an unfair political price but I think we have to have integrity and stand up for trans folx regardless.
@@anitalpeters6575 I have and have had a number of gay and/or trans friends. Never have any of the right’s bogey men appeared.
I agree with you but remember... At their core, they are conservatives. They are put together differently than we are
I do not buy the argument that Kamala would have won if she made a prime time news conference disavowing trans issues.
Agree. The right would have still rejected her. The left would have rejected her lol.
Totally agree.
Exactly, Sam is dead wrong on this
@@mntwinsfan1988 I disagree. The ONLY cohort that mattered or matters are independants in swing states. They are just not as concerned with the 0-maybe 1 trans persons they see in their communities as they are with their grocery bills or competing for jobs with illegal immigrants. Trumps campaign drilling on trans prisoners was a very smart move and likely played a large role in their victories across the 7 swing states.
Kamala needed to say everything she possibly could that would gain independents in swing states without losing the easy wins e.g. CA, NY, IL.
She was terrible on everything. The Dems hid the president from us for 4 years bc he's old AF - then we saw how bad it was in the debate - EVEN THEN Kamala kept doubling down on the bullshit about thining Biden was super sharp and with it. That's the kind of lying that loses swing voters. They know they're geting BS from both sides - they seem to prefer their BS to be funny and stupid rather than timid and cautious.
The far left is a group I have never heard of, I am a progressive democrat and do think that some of the issues you talk about are over the top. But, the right is far more outrageous in behavior and beliefs that are not on the same par!
Thank you !
You are right,the right wants to make everyone bow to their will and ideas the left I think just wants to live and be treated equal to other human beings
I do not know, Being not able to define what a women is more outrageous to the rest of the world
@@stalinsampras You can't define what a woman is because you've never had one.
Nah, the far left gave the far right the ammunition they needed to scare people into voting for Trump.
Sam overestimates the power and reach of the “far left” by a massive amount. These people he decried are way more fringe than he thinks they are. Tim did a good job arguing that point.
He's a clown guys - he knows very little of what he talks
Yes, and it is also true that trans/DEI issues were marginal in Kamala Harris' campaign. But Sam Harris does not underestimate how these issues offer cannon fodder to the right. Trump's campaign spent 215 M$ on *one* antitrans ad, just because that was the one with the "best"/strongest response from the electorate. That is a fact.
Harris has been on that anti-left "You're not allowed to say what I'm saying" grift for ages.
I was just gonna say that. I feel like he has only been living in a Twitter/NYT bubble with regards to the “left” - whatever that is. Who are these extremists he keeps talking about driving the Democrat bus?! Dems are not a monolithic group, like most, but as far as politics goes, people tend to vote to the center.
Yes. You said that perfectly. Messaging is the most important lesson here. People are more apt to accept a comfortable reality than actual reality. How can we work with that?
> "Kamala didn't disavow her sin [identity politics]"
I dunno Sam, has Trump ever disavowed ANY of his sins? And we're talking about a LOT of them. Why does Kamala need to disavow and Trump doesn't? I really don't think Kamala disavowing this would have changed anything. Trump voters made up their minds before Kamala came into the picture.
Trump is lawless, Kamala had to be flawless.
Because once again she was held to a totally different standard than Trump. She had to be perfect, and even that wasn’t good enough. Meanwhile, he’s up there on stage simulating oral sex and the press barely covered it. How about asking Trump to apologize for his racist, homophobic comments?
Youre conflating personal behavior with policy positions. Trump for example both disavowed a federal abortion plan and Porject 2025 in this election. Obama claimed to be against gay marriage in 2008. Moderating on certain issues, even insincerely, really matters if you want to win elections.
Trump (and Republicans writ large) did not run against Kamala, he/they ran against the Democratic Party, the caricatured one as portrayed all over social and legacy media. The Dems are terrible, absolutely terrible at messaging, and they simply had their pants pulled down by the Republicans over and over again…
Also, Ignoring how Republicans were playing the identity card ok on their end .
A good faith intelligent conversation between two thoughtful people. Why is this so rare these days? I don't agree with either one of the participants 100%, but I very much appreciate how they put their perspectives across and I learn from them. Thank you.
I have seen Sam Harris on many channels and very much admire his intellect. I disagree with his analysis of Harris’ loss. His explanation does not address the clear double standard that was applied to Harris vs Trump. Everything Harris said was scrutinized and every interview critiqued. Meanwhile Trump spewing insults nonsense and fear mongering . Reporters grilled Harris on policies and let Trump get away with vague promises. Anyone truly paying attention who cared about our democracy as well as our economy and social safety nets should have clearly voted for Harris over Trump. On top of all that , a huge section of our population were totally willing to ignore Trumps complete corruption including his attempt to blatantly overthrow the results of our free and fair election. The double standard applied to these two candidates boggles the mind
Agreed!
I believe she lost principally because of sexism and racism.
@NYLor00
Exactly!
@@lhoward9593you people live in a complete bubble. I'll tell you why she lost one it's embarrassing to be a Democrat nowadays for men especially, they're the party of gay weak men it's just a fact. Number two and most importantly they're on the wrong side of every issue endless wars, crypto stoppage, men and women's sports, open borders, big pharma profits over Americans health, there's not one thing that they are pushing that is popular in this country not one those are the major things I just described them right there to you and the reality is they're on the wrong side of every one of those
Haha You've got to be kidding me? They've already done this study a million times in the last one I read was 88% of remarks or negative about Trump and it was like 10% for Harris on the mainstream media. It's never been more one side in fact one of the major reasons I now vote Republican is because I am so tired of the mainstream media lies and hatred of the Republican party. You keep criticizing one group of people and no one likes bullies. This is why most of us vote Republican nowadays is the media is in cahoots with them. How can you have mainstream media, Hollywood, big tech and all the universities yet you still can't get half the people to support you,? I can tell you it's because your policies are terrible and people despise the Democratic party for the corruption and lies that they tell with the media
I watched Harris speaking during the campaign, and she never looked like a hostage to the woke mob. She seemed like a thoughtful person who weighed her words and their effect, unlike her opponent and his unhinged rambling. I think Sam is kidding himself if he believes that any amount of explaining her change of heart would have satisfied the Joe Rogan voters. This election was about contempt toward women--the anti-Me Too election. These men were not going to vote for a woman, especially a black woman.
Some people really enjoy a good Kamala word salad.
This is pretty much how I feel too. The double standard, asymmetry in Sam's words, is appalling. I think his perspective on Kamala seeming to mince words and dance around the difficult issues causing a problem for her is worth thinking about. IMO sticking so closely to the talking points may have convinced some people that she was just part of the democratic (small d) machine; an insider who is part of the problem. I don't agree with those people, but speaking in government-ese isn't how a person from the incumbent administration is going to effectively convince a Rogan listener that she represents meaningful change for THAT Rogan listener. The fact that a credible, educated person can't speak like an adult to half the electorate is troubling to me.
Also: There is NO "woke mob"!
I think she made a principled choice to rise above the efforts to pull her down into the quagmire of identity politics. If she had, they would have harvested endless sound bites to attack her with. She trusted Americans to follow her on the high road because she believed in us. Sadly, collectively , we were unworthy of that trust.
Kamala was an extraordinary weak candidate. Please don't woke.
I hate how we all are marginalizing DEI. DEI initiatives was never about giving unqualified people opportunities. DEI was about recognizing talent that went unnoticed due to race, color, ethnicity, and even geography. Now its become a dirty word. I thought it would never be considered bad not to consider diversity of thought as a value-added commodity.
DEI is trash and was shoved down people's throats by the radicals in your party.
That's how the GOP play - they did the same with the words and terms:- 'Woke', 'Black Lives Matter' , Feminism etc.
Perhaps but the pendulum has now swung so far to the left and corrupted the original intent
Similar to the evolution of trade unions
Thank you, well said.
@@saltyshamrock not to forget them coining the word "Obamacare" for the ACA, f'n racists
Excellent. Beyond excellent. I'm sharing this conversation to everyone. Thank you for doing and posting this for us and our sanity. I couldn't manage my mental health w/o Bulwark. And I owe my mental health to all of you!
I have never once thought Trump was funny or entertaining. He is a vicious monster.
I concur
From the time I knew who he was I thought there was something off about🤡As a matter of fact whenever he would come on T.V. I’d have to leave the room.
He is vile and revolting.
THANK YOU! 👍 That comment made me scream at the screen!
I am shocked when certain analysts (even Never Trumpers) say that Trump has charisma…in what universe does this thoroughly despicable, incoherent, and vicious man have charisma? I don’t see it. I’ll never see it.
Sam admitting that he's willing to trade rights away to make other people more comfortable is pretty sad to hear. Every minority group that becomes more visible is going to make people uncomfortable by virtue of their newness. It's not like any of this is new or doesn't have historical analogues
Another clueless fool who is part of the problem and not the solution.
What rights specifically did Sam admit he's willing to trade away?
Yes, I'm curious. I must have missed it.
Obviously, Sam has never been disenfranchised!
The “sister souljah” comment speaks volumes. Disappointing, but predictable.
I’ve worked support in a HS for 5 years. We have 1,000 students. We’ve had 2(TWO) transitioning students. WTF is ANYONES problem?! Civil Rights for all, ALWAYS!
I think we all believe that on the sane side of politics. I think Sam Harris is arguing that we need to ignore the more extreme rhetoric on the far left (eg no biological component to sex) while still affirming the rights of trans people and everyone else.
This guy actually buys into the "social contagion" myth. He is embarrassing himself. Should probably stick to chemistry or whatever it is he does.
The problem is girls' and women's hard fought civil rights are being shit on. How anyone thinks electing Trump would help, I have no clue....but the fox being in charge of the hen house is why people care.
@@ShainRaleyread Abigail Shrier's book. There is absolutely a social contagion element.
@@ShainRaley the whole point of these conversations is that we shouldn’t be alienating people that we don’t agree with on every single issue. If you tell everyone who thinks differently that they’re a bigot, then you can forget about ever being in government again.
Sam Harris is infinitely more obsessed with trans issues than the trans people I know/am friends with.
Well then the point he was making went totally over your head.
He pretends Dems only talk about trans people and pronouns and I am saying that is BS. He is right a lot of people are susceptible to “culture war” issues and Dems should learn not to take the bait, and understand how to talk about these issues without abandoning people in order to cater to the whims of bigots.
Honestly I feel like he barely talked about it until lately, and now it's all about how the activism around it is deranging Democratic politics.
@@davidhoover3347 I even heard Gasparov quote him today. These guys themselves are uncomfortable with these issues and project this discomfort on millions of people. This is not to say this discomfort does not exist, obviously, but as Dems themselves have acknowledged in the election post-mortem (see f.i. Pod Save America with Plouffe et al.), Trump’s targeted ads on “the trans issue” probably did little to move Dem voters, but perhaps merely kept a small proportion of male voters of certain demographics from moving towards Dems.
Yeah I really don't get his position. On the one hand, he wants to say "trans people are people, gender dysphoria is a thing and society should accept and help those people" but also rants vaguely about trans activists. Like is his whole point tone policing? What specific policies is he advocating for changing or he just wanted Kamala to somehow distance herself from any trans policy while still being for it?
The reason why Kamala kept saying "I'll follow the law" is because gender reassignment surgery in prison was a law that came about during the Trump administration. I'll give you that she should have made that part clear, but I don't think it would make a difference.
Totally! I posted that as well. :-) When we're mentioning Kamala on the Trans topic, we should bring that up, as well. People need to understand the hypocrisy with Trump on that issue.
Being right rather than winning is not the tactic that would have kept Trump out of office.
Yes, that`s correct, but it`s bad messaging. It would be better to say: "This isn`t an issue that actually exists, we care about trans people having human rights and we care about everybody being able to make a decent living. Therefore we want to implement ... policies." If you have more time you can elaborate that there is TWO PEOPLE in the prison system in the whole of the US who received trans care, at least that`s the number I heard. It`s literally not an issue.
Pointing out what the law is and that dems just follow that law is too complicated and it`s not taking a stance, people wanna see candidates take a stance.
Which is why I hate that people keep hanging on that
I think they decided there was nothing she could say to respond to that that wasn’t playing right into Trump’s hands. And it didn’t matter, because the idea that there was a sizable percentage of the electorate that would have been swayed by that issue is ridiculous. Being able to speak to these issues better would be great, but throwing parts of our coalition under the bus in a futile attempt to counteract MAGA culture war attacks makes Dems weak.
And thank you, Tim, for pushing back on some of his arguments.
I have to agree, even if I usually disagree with very little of what Sam says.
Yes!!
Respect and acceptance of others shouldn’t be a political liability.. And notice that even the “intellectuals” can’t make an argument without repeating extreme examples that don’t exist in reality! There’s so much dishonest, disingenuous messaging from the right that make it impossible for there to be unity politics.. My acceptance of others is not to blame for another’s ignorance and lack of a moral compass..
Maybe you should start accepting the fact that democracy is at some level a popularity contest and that it requires coalition building? I get that you think that everyone should just accept whatever politics you believe in because you consider your own position morally righteous, but this really just means you'll get an increasingly smaller and smaller range of support in society be it either because your opinions are fringe or because your strategy is to be condescending and exclusionary to anyone who believes different.
I don't expect you nor Democrats in general to understand this point, Democrats wouldn't have been doing politics the way they have been doing it post-Obama if they understood.
There is no way that I believe that trump
won this election free and fair. The ALGORITHM giving
him the win, of the “POPULAR VOTE”
on the record, is a bridge too far. The
fix was already in. And he showed the billionaires by standing on stage,
listening to music for almost 40 minutes,
and he didn’t lose a vote. THIS WAS HIS WAY OR THE
HIGHWAY.”
There is no way that I believe that trump
won this election free and fair. The ALGORITHM giving
him the win, of the “POPULAR VOTE”
on the record, is a bridge too far. The
fix was already in. And he showed the billionaires by standing on stage,
listening to music for almost 40 minutes,
and he didn’t lose a vote. THIS WAS HIS WAY OR THE
HIGHWAY.”
@@Hooga89ok so who do you support then? Because you couldn’t possibly be a republican voter because their entire platform is based on culture war wedge politics of division and fear mongering.. They have no actual policy platform.. no healthcare policy or plan, no infrastructure policy or plan, they offer nothing of any actual substance to make people’s every day lives tangibly better.. Inflation isn’t controlled or created domestically, it’s a global problem. So now you can’t blame democrats for that you watch republicans stop talking about it.. All they will be doing now is finding social programs to slash to pay for tax cuts for billionaires who will only spend that extra money on stock buybacks that make them richer, while ordinary Americans get less of everything.. What you said in your reply to my post is just hot air because it’s not reality.. Just words..
There is a startlingly large amount of Americans of voting age who simply do no know and/or care about policies or issues and vote as if they’re voting for student council president. I’ve had grown adults ask me why I like Kamala Harris and I have to explain to them that I don’t. Liking a politician on a personal level is not a prerequisite for voting for them. Hell, I’d probably have a lot more fun hanging out with Trump than I would Biden or Harris. It still has no impact on who would vote for.
I'm a 3X Trump voter-- yet I agree with your underlining point. I think a lot of Americas vote for the candidate they 'like' on a personality-basis, rather than anything reflective of the actual job we're hiring these people to do. And there is a difference between liking a person vs. respecting/leveraging their ability to get shit done. In 1863, Abraham Lincoln was considering promoting a man to the position of General. Detractors said, "You can't promote this man-- he's a gambler, womanizer and tax dodger." Lincoln said, "That may be so-- but I don't see any reason why a gambler, womanizer or tax dodger couldn't whoop ass on a battlefield."
To your point, the question is NOT, "do I like the personality of the man I'm voting for." Spoiler Alert-- I NEVER liked Trump's personality. BUT... why I keep voting for this guy is because:
1. He champions most of the line items I want to see addressed by my government. Things that I think will have a positive impact on my personal life.
2. He'll fight for these things despite opposition. I don't know if you noticed, but the guy has an uncanny ability to overcome obstacles that get his way, and push his agenda forward, even in the face of unsurmountable odds.
In other words, if this was a beautify contest, I'd vote against him. If it was a personality contest, I'd vote against him. If it was a 'verbal skill/communication' contest, I'd vote against him. But national elections are none of these things. What they are is a decision to decide who is best qualified to manage a government that meets my personal needs and expectations. And, for me, right now... that answer is DJT.
@@thegreatinterpreter8382 i agree that we shouldn't like or certainly worship a candidate, which for me includes wearing tshirts, shoes, & hats; buy gold sneakers & worthless coins; etc. BUT he didn't do much- yea he built 50- 100 miles of fence, no wall & diverted other $$ for it bcoz nobody in their right mind thought mexico was gonna pay for it. Plus the man has 2 coastal monstrosities he calls home, grew up filthy rich, inherited millions yet rails against the elites & his people buy it. Good grief
Edited 5x due to tremor pre posting mid sentence. Good lord
@@thegreatinterpreter8382 What you seem to be missing is that Trump is a loose cannon, who cannot be trusted to make intelligent decisions.
Absolutely I have this conversation with people constantly. Low information voters just voting for who they like getting flashbacks of people saying they liked George bush because he seemed like someone they would enjoy having a beer with complete brain rot. I constantly tell people I’m not a fan of Kamala but I’m more concerned with policies and the cabinet they would have around them
@@thegreatinterpreter8382enjoy the tariffs 😂
Wealth inequality is the problem. When you can buy a Supreme Court Justice or a Senator.
or a President.
yes, but ignoring the Republicans greatest weapon (Which Dem's created and handed them) is what lost them the election. Result will be greater wealth inequality, dumb 'libtards' to be blamed.
well, wealth inequality about to increase faster than ever, way to go libs (create the identity politics weapon and hand it to R's to bludgeon us with).
@@petercollins5861 Bingo. 💙
wealth inequality dropped during the entirety of the Biden administration and yet here we are.
Errrr....most Congresswomen could not care less if Sarah McBride uses the women's room. Or their locker room. Why is Sam Harris apologizing for Mace and Greene, who are trying to weaponize this issue?
@@FrannieZellman yes exactly!
Yes why indeed!
I don’t think he knew how absolutely horrible Mace and Greene have been the past few days. His first response was put in gender neutral bathrooms.
@@djeanie4934 if Marjorie is involved it’s going to be disgusting and horrible. Anyone in politics should know that, and it makes me question him a lot to ever run apologia for that lady
All she had to say was that it is policy as prison health care and has been. They’ve been paying for it decades even under Trump. So she just had to talk about it being not her policy but a long standing policy. Sam has a history of being anti-Islamic & now he is anti-trans. People deserve rights
I’ve seen Sam Harris debate and have somewhat agreed with him, not today! He came across as snobbish and arrogant
This garbage about public intellectualism, with its rigor and standards and principles, then sliding right into how he has very close friends who are so incurious and willfully oblivious that they just think Trump is funny and will shake things up and don't care about the insane ways in which he is destroying and will continue to destroy our republic is WILD. You want us to take you seriously when you hang out with MAGA-inclined weirdos? Nah, man. You are who you hang with.
I honestly do not get why so many people react to him that way. I don't find him snobbish or arrogant at all. He states his views clearly and strongly, yes, but that doesn't equate to arrogance for me.
@@humanbeing2420 not arrogant, just wrong and misled.
Why??
I don’t think he is arrogant … I’ve seen real arrogance and he is not close to that!
Well done, Tim. Thank you. This was really interesting.
Hearing Sam use the term "woke" unironically saddens me.
So sick of it
@@PandoraJonesmodel That word has been the snowy mountain peak of Mount Cringe for a decade now and no one calls them out on it.
I thought the same... Surprised Sam would use it. It's now just a trigger word, to label ideas that we're not supposed to like. To label people so we can ignore everything they say. It has nothing to do with whether someone is "woke" or not, it has to do with tribe. Great respect for Sam in most things, but I'd have thought he'd be aware of this one...
Sadly too, I was disappointed in Harris using 'woke'. Could his use of a hijacked term be a clue that Sam too has a Achilles heel? IMO, using 'woke' as a negative critical term tells us (1) you harbour secret conservative or right leaning sympathies or (2) you haven't thought of looking at the etiology of the term and how it was hijacked and weaponized by the right.
We never talk about the poor. Why not? Americans are exhausted, they deserve a place in this conversation.
I heard a priest give a sermon, "U need an adult faith. I meet so many people who are savvy about business matters, civic matters, family dynamics, church, family interaction, everything, but, when it comes to religion, they sound like a 6-year-old." People like that (about politics) are vulnerable to manipulation.
@@Jryanist exactly! Native Americans at 3% of population also never make the headlines for help and equality
Maybe because the poor encompasses everyone: all colors, creeds, nationalities, etc.. If we saw what we have in common vs what makes us different there's a risk that we might band together. "They" know the value of divide and conquer.
C'mon this is America; we can't help the poor because bootstraps freedoms something-something socialism 🙄
He makes too many excuses for Musk. As if the trans stuff is more insane than what Musk is saying.
Agree 100%. One side's transgression is pronouns and the other's is fascism, and we should divide the blame equally between the two and even chastise the first side for making the other go completely insane with their pronouns and forcing them to adopt a fascistic ideology.
He called Musk deranged
@ He did criticize Musk but he also rationalized/excused Musk’s behavior.
@@xlixlixli1 I must've missed that part.
If Sam’s so concerned about facts. He needs to get his own facts straight first. For example: the woman boxer is a woman NOT a trans woman. The trans treatment in prison was a TRUMP administration policy. If he is going to critique VP Harris, it would just be that she should’ve spoken up about how it was a Trump policy. One of the reasons they threw the anti-trans ads at VP Harris was because it was actually their own policy. It was a bait and switch.
He needs to go fight this battle in his own party and stop trying to bring democrats to the right.
That’s the worst possible direction for both the party and the country
You're missing the concept. The left has gone too far with identity nonsense and it has resulted in an easier justification for voting right, which presently consists of mostly far right personalities. This is blatantly a failure of normal politics and its embaracement of fringe and neurotic ideas and not the fault of the average American, who doesn't have the time to fret over every detail of political nuance. Its the narrow mindedness and lack of accountability that has lead to such a crazy political environment. Jan 6 aside, nothing is all that new here with Trump, Clinton and Nixon were profoundly immoral lunatics as well.
time stamp where he talks about the woman boxer?
@@mxxxpwr it was an off the cuff remark to illustrate his point, it wasn't discussed in any detail
@ he refers to it as MMA, again he wasn’t concerned with facts
Listen, I live in the Bay Area, the gayest, most liberal area of the country. I have a daughter in high school. The only people talking about trans issues are Fox News, and politicians. These issues don’t exist in the real world.
If a progressive party doesn't stand up for the equal rights of marginalized individuals, they are failing what should be their first priority.
And yes it seems to be the only people bringing this issue up these days are the Republicans
This.
Except there is a video of Kamala talking about this… 😅
@@ratm9190I'm too lazy to look but I'm pretty sure someone approached her and asked about it. So on that alone, she wasn't bringing it up. People corner politicians on controversial issues all the time. What are you gonna say in that situation? She wasn't running on it.
The right made this into an issue. No one else cares as much as they do. As far as I can tell most trans or non binary folks just want to be treated equally and not made a fuss about. Note that you almost never hear a actual trans or nonbinary person shouting about it. Fox News? All f'k'n day!
Good on Tim for asking this guy about Sarah McBride. After spending 30 minutes telling us that Kamala Harris lost because she wasn't anti-trans enough, when asked about an actual, real trans person, this guy did the classic sidestep of "I did't know about that."
Yeah, that was a huge tell.
I'm so over the constant drone that the election was lost because of trans-rights, anything that can be labelled as woke, and the Me Too movement. Those things are Right-wing bugaboos but not what the majority of voters were upset about. It was that old saying "it's the economy, stupid". People were frustrated by high prices and they made the party in power pay for it. The border was also a problem, but I think the price of groceries was the main issue. I also blame the way the legacy media reported on the two candidates, holding Biden and Harris to one standard while normalizing Donald Trump.
Would be cool if Tim could get Sarah on a future episode to discuss Mace and other items.
But many people on the left do not like the trans stuff, so the democrats are losing voters to it whether or not you care about the topic.
except Tim being dishonest about the democrat's opinion on the issue. How could any of them possibly voice any opposing opinion to the party when one of them just got ripped apart for their common sense opinion on trans women competing in women's sports?
29:47 This all WREAKS of Sam saying “i don’t like THIS, so THIS is why she lost.” No data cited.
That's my biggest issue with Sam Harris, though I'm a fan overall.
A study came out saying a majority of voters who voted against Kamala did so because they thought she cared more about niche social issues (trans) than them.
Let's face it, many on the left are doing the same thing. I don't hold him to a higher standard. It's natural for everyone to be emotional and confused at this time.
i don't think it helped her to not find a way to moderate the conversation, esp. with men. and being a woman, she was already behind the eight ball. it's not fair, it's not right but sadly it's the truth. until we democrats can look at ourselves and accept part of why we lost, we won't be able to win. winning is the goal. we have to stop calling everyone racists as well. we need to be able to talk about these difficult subjects.
You can't find data on anything like this. The only analysis will have to be qualitative and Sam Harris make a lot of sense in mentioning problems around the trans issue, on both sides.
Sam absolutely NEVER disappoints!
Best, most interesting and insightful interview I've watched in this channel!!!
I watched this all the way through and while I value hearing all perspectives, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if this guest was not brought back on.
100%!!! A million years ago I had respect for Harris. But then he became full out racist against Muslims. Back then that was his soapbox. Now it’s trans-issues. He is over the top. Really??? She lost the election because of trans-issues.
🎉🎉🎉 my thoughts exactly. He is the one living in an Echo chamber.
1,000% agree! He kinda got my dander up lol. Tim handled it fabulously, though, so that was nice.
Me, too.
Preach. Harris is such a fraud.
Lost me at ‘far left has cultural influence’. I was excited to hear his examples and wasn’t let down. His first one was people ‘vandalizing’ art. Ludicrous to think people this have influence. The only thing the people he lists off do is provide fodder, but that’s not reason to just buy the right’s weak ass criticisms.
He's An absolute joke
Agreed. It's hardly a stance taken by democratic politicians, and as far as I know vandalism is vandalism, not a political position in itself.
Exactly. A handful of those incidents does not compare to the march of fascism in democratic countries. And pretending it's equal is a strategic lie that Sam Harris is helping spread.
100%
Before WWI in the UK the suffragettes really vandalized works of art to draw public attention to their struggle for their right to vote. They had to do it because nobody cared. Women obviously didn't have a lobby in the places of power. They were locked up and mistreated for their actions. Male politicians only cared when women had to fill the vacancies left by the soldiers fighting WWI.
SamHarris is stuck on trans issue. This issue alone cannot explain choosing a nut case like Trump
He isn’t stuck on trans issues but only discussing?
Yes, absolutely. Sam himself is stuck in the college discourse bubble.
every time I hear Sam Harris it reminds me I need to keep listening to Sam Harris.💙
Trans as a percentage of population less then 1% and somehow we are responsible for trumps deranged position is ludicrous
You arrent responsible, just vulnerable and they attack the vulnerable. Try not to internalize their hatred towards you :)
I just want these pretend pundits to switch up "trans" with "Asian" or "Black" and see if they feel good about themselves.
Tim out there not even repping for the queer folk but I'm trying not to be too disappointed.
every vulnerable group is going to have to go through this I guess
please gentlemen, give me my rights... I know that asking is a provocation
@@tammyshields2361 this supposed intellectual certainly has an axe to grind against trans people. He even admits the election loss was driven by post-pandemic rejection of incumbents and inflation. But then goes on a tirade against trans people.
@@tammyshields2361 Absolutely. The only thing more galling than the Trumpists’ spending more on anti-trans advertising than the government has ever spent on gender-affirming care - by a significant degree - is that that ad spending appears to have worked.
Musk isn't an engineer. Not even self taught
I tried to find some of his old code, but I could only find people saying he was a horrible programmer.
He's just a rich kid nepo baby that made some good investments. Anyone could do that if they were born into money....except trump
Correct. He's a rich guy who bought other people's patents.
Has he 11 kids? And none of them will follow in his footsteps
@@JoseDiaz-rh2vp True story
“The people screaming about DEI want Dr. Oz to be in charge of Medicare and Medicaid”. That genuinely made me burst into laughter. All of this is absolutely fucking insane.
Even Musk said that Trump shouldn't be the CEO of anything, he supported Desantis. Musk then spent millions to give the job to an unqualified moron.
Great question. She debated him. She out debated him and they still voted for him. It’s a lot to do with race and sex. Even if they are a minority
@@Urgurl514 we elected a black man 2x. It's a woman we've not elected. Republicans will elect the 1st woman: thats pretty much the standard the world over.
Fun fact: it had nothing to do with race and sex as all the exit polling shows. Educate yourself.
@ exit polling. Of course no one is going to come out and say I voted for a low morale, racist, sexist, criminal because he’s white. You need to educate yourself. Read a little history.
@ exit polling is not fact silly person. You definitely need to learn what a fact is buddy
@@Urgurl514 sure we’ll just accept your distorted world view opinion over all the leading exit polls lol
I asked on another site for a definition of "woke.". The answers i got were all over the place, few of them being close to accurate. My concise definition of woke is one word "inclusiveness.". The golden rule put into effect: treat others as you want to be treated.
Exactly! It annoys the shit out of me that imprecision.
That's "golden rule", not wokeness. I hope this helps. To see honest definitions of wokeness and what are people's problem with it, you have to dig deeper. At least Wesley Yang deep, but probably, cancellable deep to be sure. Calling normies that think of themselves as tolerant for explanation of their non-tolerant political choices won't get you far.
The origin of this word is just an attempt by the black community to try to highlight the racial injustice that still exists in America. It’s was just a way to talk about allies who understood that black people are still not treated fairly in American society. People that were aware of this fact were “woke”, i.e., awakened to this truth. It’s the Right that perverted this concept because it was an uncomfortable truth. Many racists now use “woke” the same way they use the N-word. And it was the extreme Left that accepted this new definition so they could reject it. There’s a concept in information warfare. When you can get your adversary to adopt your terms and definitions, that’s a huge step towards winning the information war.
"Woke" is often directed at those people who think for themselves, as if thinking for one's self is a negative thing. 🙄
@@matthewmoore7447… I like your explanation. l cringe when I hear the word “woke” used. The word means different things to different people, most really don’t know what it is, yet is tossed around so easily.
It’s been a hard truth of the GOP for about 20 years, they have been willing to go along with just about anyone who furthered their influence or power. They almost never hold themselves accountable to their supposed values.
*never! There fixed it for you.
Trump also centers identity politics. Just white Christian identity. And then the "other "
If Trump truly 'centers' white Christian identity, wouldn't his policies have explicitly excluded or disadvantaged non-white Christians or other minorities? Yet under his administration, Black and Hispanic employment hit historic highs, and his prison reform disproportionately benefited minorities. Odd behavior for someone allegedly fixated on only one group, right? Trump focuses on policies for everyone (like securing borders or promoting jobs) rather than pandering to a specific race. If he's just about 'whites', why the record gains among Hispanic and Black voters?
This is typical Sam Harris. He makes it seems that he’s an academic who tests his ideas against chance, bias, and with peer review. But he makes broad generalizations about many things without either quoting any research or pointing to anything that can verify his broad claims. There is no reason to think that the far left has “taken over” many American institutions, for instance. If Harris were a serious person, he would at the least provide definitions of these terms, how it happened, why it happened, etc. As far as I know, he never has. IMO, he’s a thoughtful, well educated version of the intellectual charlatans who are always talking.
This was so disappointing. I am a Bukwark fan and paid subscriber, and “woke maniac,” apparently. The amount of contempt towards trans people and civil rights advocates in this conversation was really disgusting. These people really are conservatives.
@@natashastovallph.d.3716 I absolutely agree! I usually love Tim Miller but this is disappointing for sure. Wish he’d challenged him more if he disagrees.
@@catherineherrera8196 Dunno... it was kind of obvious to me that Tim wasn't really buying into what Sam Harris was saying.
Trump campaigned and had his media bullhorn blast this trans crap.
Exactly. 0.6% of Americans identify as trans. That’s a teeny tiny amount. Rationally we should only give it 0.6% of our national attention. But the Right has a way of demonizing trivial things. A true straw-man argument. “Don’t trust Democrats on trade policy because they want to turn your girl into a boy without your consent.” The fault lies in our human frailty. Without education, it’s easy for us to believe in lies. I suspect that’s a major reason the Right wants to hobble education in this country; to make it easier to control us.
I am happy Tim did at least push back about the trans issues and pointed out that the whole discussion in congress about which toilet to use is performative and none of these women is actually afraid of their colleague.
Here’s an idea: let’s not reduce Trans Americans to just a political branding issue. Literally just humans who deserve dignity, respect, and protective legislation. Also, they want lawmakers to get to work on the economy, so they can also pay their bills. ‘Magine that. 🙄
Keep this up and the Dems will never have control of our government branches. Obviously, you have not learned a thing from this massive loss.
The Right-wing is obsessed with people's sexuality that is different from their own. Eye opener once again. My guess is they've been indoctrinated by religion
@@rosegarden3686peabrain, back up for a second. You're falling for THEIR trap if you think the Dems could have done anything vis a vis the Trans issue to win this election. The cake was baked on the economy. Period.
I couldn’t agree more. This was such a frustrating interview.
It lost us the election
Simple fact: Trump spent $134 per trans person on anti-trans campaign ads. Harris spent $0 per trans person on pro-trans ads.
It obviously worked on Sam Harris.
@@helendouglas9019 I think he came into the election already a TERF who seemingly has a huge blind spot on that one issue like a few other notable people in media like Dave Chappelle and JK Rowling.
And they all seem to find themselves doubling down until they're persona non grata about it and then complain about cancel culture. Which really makes them the out of touch 'don't ask don't tell' crowd of the 2020s.
What's the lesson here given that Trump won?
And pissed away a billion dollars to do it.
@@tcorourke2007The lesson is that people are stupid and easily riled up over issues that are so minor that they will never affect them.
I believe Elon Musk is not an idiot, what he is doing has a purpose and it is to become more rich and powerful than anyone else in history, his egotistical behavior leads him to believe he is some sort of savior for humanity, he can't see the damage and pain he is causing to other because he is full of himself 11:41
Also can we retire the use of the word “woke” to describe any pushback we don’t like. I need woke defined too.
If they define woke we will see that it’s simply inclusion of the marginalized people and realizing the systemic and social indoctrination of white supremacy. And this pushback usually makes them aware of this.
Gotta say I respect Sam’s spiritual wisdom. But his political acumen seems way off. I’m a Democratic Socialist and I can tell you with certainty that there is no “left” in this country! The so-called “left” position today would have been considered moderate right 30 years ago. Also, ease up on the trans people they are on a journey, not my journey, but whatever happened to “live and let live” in this country?
Without even realizing it, you just perfectly described why the far left are targeted so frequently...
"Democratic Socialist".
The only word heard is "Socialist".
Here's a thought for all of those proud Democratic Socialists.
Try saying "Social Democrat".
It's the same thing but won't make people shut down or walk away the moment you speak.
Who is stopping freedom and pursuit of happiness of trans people?? You can have the same rights the rest of the people have but you cannot deny reality and say men can be a woman and insist others to part take in your belief when others do not belief it because it's completely denying reality
He does not pretend to be a political analyst ~ his is speaking about human nature, which seems to be something you do not understand
Yeah seriously WTF is he talking about with the “far left taking over elite institutions” BS? What left? And what takeover? What planet is he on?
This 💯. The left was exterminated in the 70s.
For a supposedly smart guy, he doesn’t know why Harris lost. Or at least he has an axe to grind with trans people.
Typical woke comment ~ he does not have an ax to grind with trans people, he is simply saying why Dems lost ~ because they gave MAGA the bullets to shoot at them
To me, racism and not wanting a woman had a lot to do with it. As did the price of eggs falsely believing R's are better at inflation - a myth created by commercial media. And the overall feeling that life sucks VERY mistakenly believing trump can help with that. Also, being simple minded, makes his ppl think it's a piece of cake to solve complex problems. A convenient method disguising the fact he doesn't read & can't comprehend complex issues.
I'd bet my house it's the second one
@@ThatGuillermo "Everyone wants to be a cowboy." Ziggy Marley
30:00 Sam falls into the GOP trap here. Why does she have to disavow her opinion about trans people from 5 years ago?
Trump says 100 way worse things and disavows none of them.
According to voters, they weren't worse... you still can't understand it lol you live in a fantasy land, which is drifting further and further away from the real world (the place where you lost)
Because they were insane and anybody right of lunacy sees it so. Her avoidance of it appears dishonest, which it is.
@@sethjohnson6012 Trump avoids every question he is asked - don't BS me with "they voted Trump because Kamala didn't answer straight questions"
absolutely insane thing to say
You're being hyperbolic. Nobody is suggesting that this is THE reason Trump won. This is one element of the big picture. The big picture is a decade of far left nonsense being normalized by the center left. I can't imagine that you can't understand that.
Once upon a time, gay marriage activism did brand damage to Democrats too. But it was still a compassionate and noble cause, to champion the expansion of rights for a misunderstood and maligned minority of the population.
Sure, some elements of trans activism probably go too far, or miss the mark, as is the case with all activism. But if the case against it is “voters don’t like it”, my response is “activism can change voters’ views”. Abandoning trans individuals to the hatred and scapegoating of Republicans may be utilitarian - but it is cowardly and ignoble.
Winning elections is important, yes. But so are principles - as evidenced by the rampant moral decay of the Republicans, who have abandoned all their principles in pursuit of victory. And the principle of compassion and standing up for minority communities under siege is a core principle of modern Democrats.
It's like when some people thought that separate but equal was an acceptable solution or that we didn't need to make a big deal about women's rights.
Losing elections on principal leave these communities exposed too
Agreed. The Democratic Party is at its best and is honestly at its most likable when it doesn’t cower from civil rights issues. If democrats would have taken the Walz approach instead of the center-right approach to arguing trans issues (Aka they’re weird for obsessing over people’s genitals and most people care more about kitchen table issues), 1) they would have persuaded people and inspired people, not conceded the premise to the far right
Yes exactly. And really, if the trans issue was what convinced a third of our voters to actively hand our country over to a treasonous dictator then I'm really not sure what could have saved us.
@@jasonmoore6973 True.
“To those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
Call Sam on his BS, Tim.
No, it nails it. I see this in my own social circle. They are insecure about the accomplishments of people they see as lower than them, doing better than them.
I don't disagree with the quote or agree with Sam, but question how much we can apply it to *the people Kamala needed to win over*. The usual intended meaning behind the quote highlights why I think she lost. The Democrat's progressive movement has traditionally not considered class as an identity. I think because until the last few decades, we didn't really need to. Mostly white, rural and suburban Americans were heavily privileged. We could focus on systemic issues involving race, sex, etc... Uplifting and providing opportunities to minorities and the disadvantaged. There's still a lot of work left, but wealth inequality has grown so much that recognizing class as an identity and showing you represent a progressive movement that isn't going to leave those people behind is essential in an election this close. Biden won their votes because of his pro-union, pro-worker background. A lot of them would have also voted for Bernie, because his message always prioritized class alongside things like race, gender, and sexual orientation. We've got to remove the stigma that white working class voters are inherently bigoted. Many are. But most aren't motivated by hate but instead they want to feel they are being represented.
In terms of GenZ, this crazy political environment is all they know. When we stop pretending that institutional norms and proper decorum matter as much as they used to, we’ll have a clearer idea how best to communicate with them
Trump is amusing?? Why anyone could listen to him, watch Trump speak and yet find him attractive is stunning.
Sam sounded dumber in this interview than he ever has
51% of the nation loves him enough to vote for him.
Maybe you need to find a country that is more compatible with your personality. Have you looked into North Korea?
@@brucegruetzmacher5891 It's more like 33%, dude.
@@Stand_By_For_Mind_Control I think most of the people doing the Trump dance did not actually vote for him. They just like flying a MAGA flag on their pickup so everyone knows they are not the type that suckles on the government teat. But if they actually all went and voted. I am sure the final numbers would be well over 50 percent. Do you think all those black guy doing the MAGA rap in the hood ACTUALLY sent in a ballot for Trump? Naa
@@brucegruetzmacher5891Trump supporters are not more than half the country. They’re not even half the country. Look at how many people are in the United States and compare that to how many actually voted for Trump 😂
I enjoyed this conversation so much. I've never heard about Tim before, but his questions were on point.
Love the push back. Thanks, Tim.
As a leftie leftist, I admit to being very frustrated by the shouting down of all other opinions but those of the far left, especially in our universities (one of the reasons I'm at grad school in Europe). But I cannot help but marvel at the wonderful progress that got us things like marriage equality. When I was in high school and had gay friends, no one ever said it out loud. We all knew they were gay, but you didn't talk about it. By the time I was in college, we talked about it. And then a decade after I graduated, gay people were getting married. Don't get me wrong: I hate the people who would get in your face over not knowing someone's pronouns. But if the far-left didn't push as hard as they did, would we have marriage equality now? Or would Tim be hiding his sexuality now? Sometimes it takes a bit of radicalism to get the wheels turning.
Nobody decent on the left is anti-trans rights. But using tax-payer money for criminal illegal immigrants' sex changes, or encouraging minors' sex changes, is insanity. We need to know where to draw the line.
Exactly.
It's almost Newtonian - in order to overcome societal inertia and budge things even slightly to the left, someone needs to pull to the left as hard as they can.
And let us not forget the need to stay vigilant. Those who're trying to curtail people's rights have never completely relented and have made it clear again and again that they're hell bent on going back to the old status quo. I remember BS promising many years ago, before "woke" was a thing and before they decided to focus solely on trans people, that there would be a backlash against LGBTQ people. He also compared same sex marriage with PD, which was one of the reasons people were shouting him down. They drive people to the farthest corners of society yet expect no reaction from them, and when people finally do something to defend themselves, they call them extreme. Another thing that's rarely discussed is how the hate brigade has moved to other countries, particularly in Africa. Figures from the American right have bankrolled several governments and successfully convinced them to impose the capital punishment, causing an exodus of refugees fleeing this brutality. When they saw that hate was retreating in America, they decided to export it. That's why people need to stay vigilant.
You’re not describing leftists, you’re describing _liberals_. There’s a big difference. Liberals/democrat party is not left wing, it’s not moderate or middle of the road.
The Overton window has moved so far the right that democrats have been adopting policy from the republicans.
I know we’re all stuck living when and where we live, but there is this whole world out there, yet we like to pretend there is nothing we can learn from other nations or just refuse to acknowledge anything exists outside of our tiny bubbles.
Sam’s focus on trans issue tells me a lot. Again I just don’t understand the fascination
He protests too much. Plus he's combining health care with Politics. Face it, even Normal Republicans are out of touch.
The democratic party's continued negligence of the impact this has had on its public perception has been, just was, is, and will continue to be a major obstacle to their goals.
MAGA don’t believe that trans ppl even exist… how and why tf should we be arguing over such specifics. Sam is crazy af and doesn’t even recognise where the right are… there are no rightwing pro trans politicians…
@@mikeyj.philly So they should disavow trans people because they’re a popular scapegoat?
@@robynnordstrom7799 Is that what anyone said?
Fascinating discussion. The Bulwark gets fantastic guests. I found myself increasingly interested by Sam Harris's video call background. It is, of course, intentional. Half intellectual. Half strong, steadfast. On the side of the light, on the side of good. I like it.
Sam Harris is no dummy, but his arrogance is staggeringly off-putting.
So you're intimidated from someone smarter than you?
That's a given. He's part of the "intelligentsia" and holds too high opinion of Elon and himself. 🎂
Nah he's put off by a guy who thinks he's smarter than he is
It is, I listened to Sam for probably 3 or 4 years before it started really getting to me at the height of his IDW days. He is definitely smart, but he let's his personal conclusions take on the air of a reality so obvious the rest of society is simply stupid for ever having considered it. That is upsetting. His opinions about trans people has been slightly affected by this, but it's more prevalent in his opinions about Muslims, which i largely share but the way in which he communicates them is incredibly belittling. I can only listen to him sparingly, and do.
@@rosegarden3686
@rosegarden3686 not at all...I fully admit Sam is far more intelligent and knowledgeable thank I am, but nat a fan of arrogance. One can be smart without being brusk. Perhaps you missed the point of my original response.
After listening to this podcast the overwhelming take away is Sam Harris is obsessed about trans stuff to the point that he sounds unbalanced
Amen
Me thinks he doth protest too much, you know?
I had to start skipping ahead because he seemed to make his point and then… kept talking and talking and talking. It became clear that Sam thinks the trans issue was what swung the election because he is personally put off by it.
Does Mr. Harris even know any trans people personally? How unfortunate that people use others as political footballs. Tim please consider having more balance on this show. Thanks or discussing matters calmly at least.
Why are so many people obsessed with all things trans? Just let these people live their lives.
I love you Tim, buuuuut Sam Harris is a HUGE intellectual A-hole! For 90% of black men who have been pulled over by the police, getting police to wear body cams and understand that ... Black Lives Do Indeed Matter ... has changed that dynamic 180 degrees.
Right! He talks calmly as though enlightened but he’s not. We know from exit polling that black people are the only racial group that showed up. They have fought for everyone’s rights over this country’s history to be abandoned continuously by all the people they helped free. When we criticize or blame blm, we are saying the very people who have created our liberal society…a society where people who aren’t straight white men (Sam Harris) can live free from persecution..that those people should not be free of it themselves. He should be ashamed of himself, and I don’t think he’s as intelligent as he fancies himself
I don't think we should literally defund the police, but I don't blame people for being pissed at cops for their bad conduct. I don't see the "activist base" as a large problem, if anything it's all the more reason to support sensible moderate reform to restore trust in government institutions.
I'm a white guy from Australia so I literally have no skin in the game, pun intended.. but I sincerely don't think Sam would ever think that black lives, nor any life didn't matter... From what I interpreted he was saying the movement was unfortunately hijacked and subverted by left wing extremests
@@delta5297 We got to be able to hold two truths in our minds at he same time. Police in the US can be brutal. Some Black Americans need to have more careful deference to police in their interactions. In other words, yes we have a police brutality problem in America, and yes black people need to be more careful in their interactions with police. I said it, so in a two party political system in which moderates don't have a significant say, I just pissed off the Republicans and the Democrats and have just been 'primaried' by both sides. And this moderate now can never be elected.
Indeed! It often takes radicalism going to the extreme for moderate change to happen.
I am impressed by how the interviewer pushed back on Sam Harris. I am a long time admirer of Harris' intellect and insights, but I feel he has a few odd blocks in his normal critical thinking. One is his patently (to use his word) emotional issues around transgender minorities and especially his getting all tied up around bathroom use. I am a South African and here we take for granted same sex marriage and gender rights. The laws were smoothly passed a ling time ago, with little fuss. This all in a conservative society. To illustrate: at our regional national broadvaster (conservatively minded) a video editor commenced gender reassignment treatment. There was a short note in the weekly staff newsletter letting staff know that editor concerned would from a certain date be using the female bathroom and would staff please respect this. Nobody blinked an eyelid. Life went on in our conservative imstitution....or are we just maybe way more aware and thoughtful than the American psyche?
Not effin impressed with Sam Harris At all
He has his parties confused about being crazy.
Agreed! I watched as much as I could, but didn't quite make it to the end.
When he started talking (with great "authority" it seemed) about trans issues and identity politics, he completely lost me.
Show me where, at any point, Kamala ran on those agenda items... matter of fact, I'd challenge anyone to point to a speech or interview where she initiated a conversation with those talking points.
My problem with all of this is this:
What's in it for Mr. Harris to repeat these false narratives???
Breaking News - you are both crazy! From an American living abroad.
@@bonnieboyz good, stay there...
@@jeffbeadle973Tell me if this would sound crazy : "Trump didn't run on banning abortion. How can anyone attach that idea to him." Trans ideology is attached to the democratic party whether you like it or not. Even if she specifically disavowed the trans agenda, it wouldn't fool anyone. Look at her pivot to being a border hawk. No one believd her.
Why do people on the right care about trans issues so much. I have never met a trans person and I live in South Florida it's crazy
I have met one just in the last year. She is a lovely person.
For the same reason they vilify immigrants, even legal status immigrants: someone else to blame so they don't realise that it's actually the wealthy 1%'s fault
because its breaking reality, you are basically telling X is Y but when actually X is just X and can never be Y. Its defying reality in front of you eyes
@@stalinsampras lol.... that was some mad black and white thinking right there! 🤣
Do you have children? This stuff has infected the school system to an insane degree and parents are sick of it.
Can someone define trans activism. I keep hearing it used but I obviously am in the wrong crowds so don’t know what the hell it refers too. I’m fascinated that it holds so much sway with people. I don’t get it.
Exactly, I can't name one "trans activist" or an activist group, or any activist protests that aren't counter protesting. All the noise is coming from the republican side.
They think trans were indoctrinated to be that way.
I think you have to swim in the far right make swimming pool to hear about it.
Same I REALLY don’t get it!
I am simply a person who doesn’t care what others do. That makes me a trans activist??
What happened to the golden rule? When did decency become political?
Welcome to politics. Now we're anyone can say anything. There's no need to provide any facts or logic anymore
So… in the war of the extremists in both parties, America chose Fascism over transgender equality. 👍 yes that’s insane.
Does he realize that the host of this show (Tim Miller) is a beneficiary of the cultural pressures by the “far left” of not that many years ago?
Tim Milker has categorically stated he will not get in the boxing ring with a woman no matter what what. He's not that woke.
@@frankmarsh1159
You don’t know what woke even means.
@@ImortalZeus13 What is it?
@@ImortalZeus13 What does it mean?
@@frankmarsh1159is he a boxer?
I have a ton of respect for Tim and the Bulwark. Typically I feel smarter after listening to their content …until now. Yikes.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is uncomfortable about this discussion of the "trans issue" as opposed to trans people. It's a bit shocking, to be honest. MAGA made it an issue, not Dems. Dems simply added the group to the ever-growing circle of inclusiveness. Here's the bottom line, though, and they discussed it here. The political arena has a double standard, notably in the news media. Dems are held to a standard they aspire to, while MAGA has no standards. The basic agreements of kindness, honesty, and loyalty (I could go on) have been tossed out. They are in a win-win situation with their faithful followers and with those who don't watch them closely. They project onto Dems the very things they are doing and deny it (or ignore it) when confronted about it (i.e., doggedly attempting to manipulate which ballots are counted). How in the ever lovin' hell can the Dems compete with that? It's upside-down world. The only hope I have is based on how close this election was. It seems that at least 50% are paying attention.
Which is basically what Sam was saying, and that the only relatively "sane" party's only hope is to actually behave more sanely, and not kowtow to the extreme fringe left ideologies.
@jontreeatreeify Is protecting trans Americans extreme? Or are we talking about Kamala's decision to enforce a law that had already been passed (to provide needed medication to trans prisoners)? The Harris campaign did everything but promote "leftist" ideas about LGBTQ issues, withdrawal of support for the devastation of Palestine, etc. I find these ideas to be common sense. I'm asking for examples of Dems pushing extreme leftist ideology. The MAGA claim about public schools performing gender reassignment surgeries is nonsense.
Bathrooms - these same people wanted to bring guns onto the house floor 😮 41:53 this is bs
Thank you, great point. And a grossly ignorant stance on grown ass women in government not letting another rep use a stall who identifies female and is zero threat! Ridiculous bullying and bigotry- make a separate bathroom like making someone drink at a separate water fountain - tell me I’m wrong? Zero threat!
They are senators. If they are afraid of occupying the same bathroom there are deeper problems than trans identities there.
Tim, I’m sorry you had to go through this. He’s oozing with contempt for us, with no enlightenment whatsoever. I’m no longer sure Sam is as smart as he thinks he is. I found him creepy.
I've never heard of Sam Harris before. Seemed like a clown in this video.
He stopped using his brain 🧠. That's the definition of Conservatism.
Creepy indeed
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped listening to Sam Harris
It's unbelievable isn't it? I don't think I've seen somebody fall harder or further faster than he has. I can't believe I'm listening to the same open minded man and he is so brainwashed by the mainstream media narrative in the Democratic party lies. It's really sad
Same.
I've never heard of him before and I don't regret it.
The guy does seem to radiate grievance and some hate toward anyone to the left of himself.
Right 😂😂😂😂😂
The thought of living here for the next four years is so depressing. It didn’t have to be this way. In my opinion, if there were no social media, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I’m old and I’ve seen everything go to shit with social media.
I just can’t. Sam Harris has not updated his opinions in 10yrs. It’s amazing that anyone can still listen to him.
I actually never heard of this guy until recently. He strikes me as a know-it-all and quite full of himself. A less shitty Jordan Peterson, but still shitty, maybe?
@ Sam Harris is a well known atheist. He wrote a defense of torture during the Iraq war. He was part of the IDW as well (Bari Weiss made them famous) and is very anti Islam. IDW all turned out to be far right cultural warriors.
@@scottharte19 Sam Harris was part of Bari Weiss’s IDW. He disavowed them eventually, (Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro etc). But they were all very anti-Islam, anti left, culture warriors. They are likely responsible for much of what we hear from the right today.
Another clueless fool who doesn't understand what they are hearing ~ I guess you want the Dems to keep on losing?
Agreed. I'm 45 min in and I don't find Sam's opinions particularly insightful or based on real information. It's a lot of social media narratives regurgitated.
Sam Harris is right that the far left often means something most people disagree with when they say “trans women are women”-such as erasing all distinctions between trans and cis women. However, the center and moderate left use the same slogan to advocate for inclusion and rights in ways that fit comfortably within the public’s Overton window. The issue is that the right exploits this ambiguity, painting the entire left as extreme, while the left struggles to articulate these differences clearly.
What’s far more concerning, though, is the real harm being done to young people who face the sudden termination of their gender-affirming care and social support. This can lead to devastating outcomes, including mental health crises. Moreover, the “first they came for…” parable is a stark reminder of the broader implications: the right disproportionately targets trans people because it serves as a strategic wedge for advancing censorship in schools, libraries, and healthcare; dismantling workplace nondiscrimination protections and benefits; and normalizing cruelty and dehumanization.
The apparent equanimity among many in the anti-Trump coalition since our election loss-embracing the idea that we can cede policy ground by abandoning trans people-is deeply disturbing. It suggests a willingness to sacrifice the most vulnerable in pursuit of broader political gains, which undermines the very liberal-democratic and civil-society principles our coalition claims to defend.
This!!!!
I don't think that "there are zero differences between cis and trans women" is a talking point I've ever heard from any leftist.
I've heard it as a chant and as a stonewalling rebuttal, but never as a substitute for "there are zero differences between the bodies/experiences/etc. of cis and trans women".
From what I've seen, trans acceptance across the entire left spectrum is about recognition, legal rights, access to resources, and dignitity.
Well articulated, thank you. Sam Harris is very privileged to be able to view time used to talk politics as merely an opportunity cost, and to look down (with blame!) at progressive activists as a frivolous class.
@@gpwaltz Well, that’s the difficulty of trying to understand the motivations behind a talking point whose premise you disagree with-finding a way to even talk about it that both accurately describes it and is comprehensible to its opponents. What’s your understanding of how “trans women are women” - which, to me as well, sounds perfectly reasonable - became a radioactive slogan? It isn’t like this is a critique I’ve never heard from anyone but Sam Harris.
@@TreyHarris It's a difficult slogan. I like Natalie Wynn/Contrapoints' take, which is (IIRC) that it's a slogan that virtue signals to people who are already on your side, but at the same time invites the knotty (and kinda irrelevant!) philosophical question "What is a woman?" And that a more tangible, compelling slogan might be "Trans liberation now!" What are the demands of trans liberation? How would they get it?
When you set your opponent up to now define and defend *womanhood*, you are fighting the wrong battle, IMO.
I support trans rights, but that's not contingent on me having a water-tight definition of womanhood or believing that every single trans woman is this transcendentally "feminine" person. Gay people don't have to prove to me that they only have romantic and sexual attraction toward the same sex. It's about understanding what these people are asking for out of society/community/government.
I cannot get past Sam Harris comparing the dangerous facist bent of the far right with and maybe annoying need to add your pronouns even if you're obviously cis of the far left. Like, protesting by taping yourself to art pieces and protesting by storming the literal capital is NOT. THE. SAME. WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE PEOPLE?
If it were up to me, we'd all be they, them. This wish has nothing to do with gender dysphoria. It has to do with the fact that as a female born in the despicable 1950s having the pronoun "she" meant I had to be twice as good to get the job as those labeled "he", that I wouldn't receive the promotion I had earned, that I was presumed to be unintelligent by default and that I was going be judged more on whether I was attractive enough to fuck than my other attributes. And if I were judged as meeting the fuckable criteria, fucking might be put forward as a requirement of employment.
I'm a pretty big news junkie, and I've never even heard of that art thing or even some of these other "wok" people Sam brought up around that same sentence. So there's no freaking way that the people who voted for Trump writ large heard of those things either, much less were driven to vote for him because of it.
Wait when exactly did he compare the two?
This is an example of a bubble. Because this was definetly a big point in the media.
Its Sam Harris. If its not Islam, or fixation on leftists or Trump himself he will twist himself in knots to defend it or escape it.
Sam has such a great vocabulary and is able to articulate complicated issues in a well understood way. Amazing and very rare and valuable human being IMO. 😊
Twenty-five, thirty years ago it was the gays and lesbians who were the far left and scaring the normies with their calls for marriage rights, etc. I don't think blaming trans people for being too weird is helpful. Defund the police was a little nuts.
Tim--Are you OK with this anti-trans line?
Sam Harris is not anti-trans. He's simply pointing out that the perception from the right about trans people was a powerful motivator in the election.
Of course, much of that was misperception with right-wing outlets focusing in on the worst examples of far-left over-reach.
There's a reason the Trump campaign ran that ad with Kamala stating she supports taxpayer sex changes for prisoners over 30,000 times in swing states.
It's because perception is reality in presidential politics and this issue contributed to Trump winning the election.
It's like you didn't listen to anything Sam actually said, or his reasons for saying it.
The trans thing is a total red herring. It’s so exaggerated.
1000% the Republicans deny that they exist while Sam is speaking as if they do… ofcourse they don’t
More specifically, it’s a “straw man” argument. Example, “Don’t trust Democrats on trade policy because they want to turn your girl into a boy without your permission.” Then typically the argument becomes about how no, Democrats are not trying to turn your girl into a boy, rather than discussing the differences in trade policy between Democrats and Republicans.
This is such a dangerous attitude. It's a bigger issue than you could possibly imagine. I'm a democratic voter all my life and even I have though about raising a kid and having teachers secretly discussing their sexual identity without me present. It's a horror story.
@@mikeyj.phillyWhat are you talking about?
@@mikeyj.phillyi just don’t believe there are many teachers out there doing that. Btw - i am a teacher. They are using the same fear mongering rhetoric they used to demonize gay and lesbians 20 years ago. It’s an invented problem intended to marginalize people.
Tim is one of the best!
Far left????? The Democratic Party is not this d