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Yeah the poundage I'm at now feels comfortable if I shoot a couple of times a week and do a couple more nights of training, but if I get lazy with training or miss a week of shooting it all falls apart very quickly.
I think something to keep in mind for amateur archers is what happens if you take a week. Can you shoot similar scores with your current poundage when you get back? If not, how long is your "recovery" time. One week? Two? I'd argue that if it takes you more than a week of practice to get back up to your average scores after taking a week off, you're overbowed. The other thing I recommend that archers consider is how many days of practice and conditioning does it take to maintain your shooting level at a given draw weight. For me, the low 40s took 5-6 days of practice to maintain, but the high 30s only took 3 days of practice to maintain the same scoring average in good conditions. I'd love to guarantee 5-6 days of practice, but that's not always reasonable with a day job. 2-3# made a surprising difference, even though I can't really notice the difference during a single draw.
"Nespoli was probably shooting 85# or something" 😆 It would have been nice to have him in these results though. Personally I shoot 42# on the fingers. I feel that's a good weight for me in that I can get my 31" arrow shafts to 70m in the wind decently. When I was shooting 36# on the fingers getting my heavy arrows to 60 & 70m felt more like a clout shot. I've found that 42# is enough for my arrows with the distance and not having to train more than I can. Though getting to the end of a 144 arrow shoot gets tough as we don't shoot them that often.
As I've got older I've lowered my bow weight. At 25 yrs old 46lbs was easy, now I've just ordered some 26lb limbs, yikes. 70m might be a no-go now. Arthritis, tendonitis, low energy, getting old sucks
This is something I can actually test for myself. I can pop the data on later if interested 😁😁😁 Edit: so I set up a measurement system. Fairly similar to the pro job here. Ran 5 yet pulls with a decent interval between each. Average was 51.07 kg. That falls nicely into the 50% of max that your test subjects were noted for. My recurve is set up at 49.18 pounds on the fingers 😁
Other factors to consider are the time spent at full draw contributing to fatigue - a shorter hold will be better in this regard. And the efffect of pulling arrows from the target- also contributes to overall fatigue and chance of injury. If you are shooting a bow 10lbs heavier than my 35, you get to pull your own arrows.
The maximum pull strength is surprisingly low. I know from a Reha Programm after a hand injury, I have 68 Kg grip strength with my right hand. Now I'm curious how much my maximum draw weight is. Currently, I shoot with 45# on my fingers, and it's pretty easy for a two hour training session.
so if i got this right i pull 34# easy, so i should really shoot something like 22# to shoot at the level of consistancy as top guys, at least when it comes to strenght
Now what I'm wondering what about draw length, on your charts, you don't show this, or is not important, maybe I'm confused or confusing you ? Normally I shoot a 40 * bow, but at my draw length, I'm pulling about 35 pounds, but I can also shoot a 46 * bow comfortably at my draw length,actually shooting about 37* shooting 100 arrows, in one hour. Now later this same day, I do feel just a bit more tired from shooting the 46* bow, which seems right, with the 6* difference. ???, I like the 40* bow better ,actually, but with wind, I do see, and feel difference in arrow flight with the 46* shooting draw weight of 37*, so should I continue to setup with a 46* bow, and shoot more to gain in strength, and possiblly be that hair bit more accurate ??? (all the time) ???
Very Interesting Video thank you! Last time i tried to pull and hold my bow for 15 seconds, rest for 30 seconds and repeat this for about 15 minutes straight. With that method, i learned, that i don't need to upgrade yet, but train a bit more haha. But it was also a nice Form training tho
I disagree in the "pulling 40 pounds will put you in disadvantage". The current outdoor barebow record at 50 m was set by Oliver Hicks with 673/720 using a #30 recurve while being 15 years old (He hals set also records at 25 m). In indoor we are seing now barebow archers with poundage so low that allows them to put the three finger just below the arrow with 0 string walking. In other words: yes at the end I agree with you but ever further; for target archery and outside 3D/field in which at unknown distances the more flat trajectory is meaningful, we should use the lightest bow we could, since consistency and timing beats speed and power.
You will be disadvantaged at the world cup/Olympics level recurve trying to make podiums. The fact that no male archer on his spreadsheet shot anything below 46 is an empirical evidence and you won't see any male archer pulling less than 40 making anywhere near the podium at world cups/Olympics.
@@harrynamkoong3361 Sorry dude, but the best female score at 70m olympic recurve outdoor is 694 (Lim Si-hyean), wheres the best male score is 702 (Brady Ellison). That's only 8 points amongst a maximum potential of 720, which means that the difference is of only 1.11%. I doubt the difference is upper body strength between females and males is only a 1.11%, which means that once you have enough strength to hit the target with the arrow, the extra strength is almost meaningless against static targets at fixed and knwon distances (different thing is 3D/field in which at unknown distances a flatter arrow path gives advantage). So I maintain my point: low poundage is perfectly fine, and even more at indoor where teenagers oftenly outscore veteran pros in archery.
@@Buran01 First of all, all world cup/Olympics level recurve is shot outdoors so that indoor part of your argument is useless. Second, if as you say, "the extra poundage is almost meaningless against static target" and clearly female archers do pull below 40 and can score 694 at 70m, then you have to ask why NO male archers at this level shoot with extra poundage when they could "take it easy"? The answer is they can't shoot as high of scores on average more consistently across many competition conditions while pulling say 37 vs 47 IF he can shoot 72 arrows at 47. End of story . Also I think Ashe mentioned in the video as well, there are advantages of shooting higher poundage IF you can pull/sustain that BUT the advantage is diminishing as you move up the poundage. And for male archers it's around 45. Anything lower, you might be ok shooting it indoors but you are giving up advantages to competitors who shoot higher poundage outdoors. Is shooting 47 vs 55 decisive? No. Is shooting 37 vs 45 decisive among male world cup/Olympics level recurve archers? Yes. It's big enough advantage that no male archer ever make it at world cup/Olympics level with 37.
@@harrynamkoong3361 The only reason scores in archery are still higher in male compared to female is due the overall much lower amount of female practiciones. South Korea being the exception to the general rule because there is a national sport and profusely practiced by both sex since early ages, so the talent of female archers there is much closer to the male archers. Again, in outdoor barebow the current record was achieved by Ollie Hicks being 15 with 673 points with a Mybo Mykan riser with #30 limbs, while the second best scorer (Jonathan Demmer III) PR is 627, a whooping 46 points lower score despite all the advantage in power and experience. Archery isn't a sport about athleticism (despite as happens in other things, being fit sure helps) but about weaponizing autism: you have to nail your movements and do exactly the same every time, and if you're good at that you'll get great results even using a beginner wood bow with #20 limbs...
@Buran01 A few important corrections: - His name is John Demmer III - His world record was 672, ONE point lower than Hicks. (Same indoor WA18, Hicks beats his record by ONE point, 572 against 571. - Demmer will have an advantage in windy conditions on 50m where he usually shoots 41-43# - the same goes for the Olympic Recurve men vs the best Korean ladies. The best ladies can match the best men in good conditions, but they will start to fall behind the windier it gets.
While a higher draw weight does increase an arrow's inertia, it does not increase its ballistic coefficient and thus, it does not enable an arrow to "cut through the wind" better. Instead, the advantage of a higher draw weight is that it increases the arrow's velocity and thus, it decreases the arrow's flight time and thus, the wind has less time to effect a fast arrow's flight path than a slow one. Consequently, higher velocity arrows experience less wind drift.
![[Korea Archery Academy] Lecture 07. Full Draw & Expansion (English Ver.)](/img/n.gif)
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Yeah the poundage I'm at now feels comfortable if I shoot a couple of times a week and do a couple more nights of training, but if I get lazy with training or miss a week of shooting it all falls apart very quickly.
My go to main bow poundage is the one I can shoot 100 arrows and my form is still very good... I'm an amateur archer though.😅
I think something to keep in mind for amateur archers is what happens if you take a week. Can you shoot similar scores with your current poundage when you get back? If not, how long is your "recovery" time. One week? Two? I'd argue that if it takes you more than a week of practice to get back up to your average scores after taking a week off, you're overbowed.
The other thing I recommend that archers consider is how many days of practice and conditioning does it take to maintain your shooting level at a given draw weight. For me, the low 40s took 5-6 days of practice to maintain, but the high 30s only took 3 days of practice to maintain the same scoring average in good conditions. I'd love to guarantee 5-6 days of practice, but that's not always reasonable with a day job. 2-3# made a surprising difference, even though I can't really notice the difference during a single draw.
"Nespoli was probably shooting 85# or something" 😆 It would have been nice to have him in these results though. Personally I shoot 42# on the fingers. I feel that's a good weight for me in that I can get my 31" arrow shafts to 70m in the wind decently. When I was shooting 36# on the fingers getting my heavy arrows to 60 & 70m felt more like a clout shot. I've found that 42# is enough for my arrows with the distance and not having to train more than I can. Though getting to the end of a 144 arrow shoot gets tough as we don't shoot them that often.
That vintage coffee table is another level
As I've got older I've lowered my bow weight. At 25 yrs old 46lbs was easy, now I've just ordered some 26lb limbs, yikes. 70m might be a no-go now. Arthritis, tendonitis, low energy, getting old sucks
What age are you?
@ws5826 53
This is something I can actually test for myself. I can pop the data on later if interested 😁😁😁
Edit: so I set up a measurement system. Fairly similar to the pro job here. Ran 5 yet pulls with a decent interval between each. Average was 51.07 kg. That falls nicely into the 50% of max that your test subjects were noted for. My recurve is set up at 49.18 pounds on the fingers 😁
Other factors to consider are the time spent at full draw contributing to fatigue - a shorter hold will be better in this regard. And the efffect of pulling arrows from the target- also contributes to overall fatigue and chance of injury. If you are shooting a bow 10lbs heavier than my 35, you get to pull your own arrows.
The maximum pull strength is surprisingly low.
I know from a Reha Programm after a hand injury, I have 68 Kg grip strength with my right hand.
Now I'm curious how much my maximum draw weight is.
Currently, I shoot with 45# on my fingers, and it's pretty easy for a two hour training session.
Excellent reasoning supported by ruthless data. Plus great speech leaves me impressed, thx.
Clean technique in almost all disciplines beats everything.
As far as I can remember, Denise Parker won the bronze medal (team) at the 1988 Olympics with a 28 pound limbs.
Brother what is the max arrow weight recommended in Olympic archery?
This is fantastic. Thank you.
What does it mean if my performance drastically improves every time I increase poundage?
Very educating thanks
so if i got this right i pull 34# easy, so i should really shoot something like 22# to shoot at the level of consistancy as top guys, at least when it comes to strenght
Now what I'm wondering what about draw length, on your charts, you don't show this, or is not important, maybe I'm confused or confusing you ?
Normally I shoot a 40 * bow, but at my draw length, I'm pulling about 35 pounds, but I can also shoot a 46 * bow comfortably at my draw length,actually shooting about 37* shooting 100 arrows, in one hour. Now later this same day, I do feel just a bit more tired from shooting the 46* bow, which seems right, with the 6* difference. ???, I like the 40* bow better ,actually, but with wind, I do see, and feel difference in arrow flight with the 46* shooting draw weight of 37*, so should I continue to setup with a 46* bow, and shoot more to gain in strength, and possiblly be that hair bit more accurate ??? (all the time) ???
Great analytics 🎉
Hi from Germany. Thanks for this interesting Video. Have you done this also for women? Only for Curiosity.
I understand your message😊
Hello. Could you make this spreadsheet available?
Lift weights. Develop your whole body but especially your back, delta and traps. Your bow weight should be no problem.
Very interesting, thank you.
"Nespoli was probably shooting around 85 pounds or something" 😂🤣🤣
Would be great if that title had established the context in sport, not historical/culture/weapon use. The title is too ambiguous
Only have to see where and who its coming from to understand the context....
Very Interesting Video thank you!
Last time i tried to pull and hold my bow for 15 seconds, rest for 30 seconds and repeat this for about 15 minutes straight. With that method, i learned, that i don't need to upgrade yet, but train a bit more haha. But it was also a nice Form training tho
I disagree in the "pulling 40 pounds will put you in disadvantage". The current outdoor barebow record at 50 m was set by Oliver Hicks with 673/720 using a #30 recurve while being 15 years old (He hals set also records at 25 m). In indoor we are seing now barebow archers with poundage so low that allows them to put the three finger just below the arrow with 0 string walking. In other words: yes at the end I agree with you but ever further; for target archery and outside 3D/field in which at unknown distances the more flat trajectory is meaningful, we should use the lightest bow we could, since consistency and timing beats speed and power.
You will be disadvantaged at the world cup/Olympics level recurve trying to make podiums. The fact that no male archer on his spreadsheet shot anything below 46 is an empirical evidence and you won't see any male archer pulling less than 40 making anywhere near the podium at world cups/Olympics.
@@harrynamkoong3361 Sorry dude, but the best female score at 70m olympic recurve outdoor is 694 (Lim Si-hyean), wheres the best male score is 702 (Brady Ellison). That's only 8 points amongst a maximum potential of 720, which means that the difference is of only 1.11%.
I doubt the difference is upper body strength between females and males is only a 1.11%, which means that once you have enough strength to hit the target with the arrow, the extra strength is almost meaningless against static targets at fixed and knwon distances (different thing is 3D/field in which at unknown distances a flatter arrow path gives advantage). So I maintain my point: low poundage is perfectly fine, and even more at indoor where teenagers oftenly outscore veteran pros in archery.
@@Buran01 First of all, all world cup/Olympics level recurve is shot outdoors so that indoor part of your argument is useless.
Second, if as you say, "the extra poundage is almost meaningless against static target" and clearly female archers do pull below 40 and can score 694 at 70m, then you have to ask why NO male archers at this level shoot with extra poundage when they could "take it easy"? The answer is they can't shoot as high of scores on average more consistently across many competition conditions while pulling say 37 vs 47 IF he can shoot 72 arrows at 47. End of story
.
Also I think Ashe mentioned in the video as well, there are advantages of shooting higher poundage IF you can pull/sustain that BUT the advantage is diminishing as you move up the poundage. And for male archers it's around 45. Anything lower, you might be ok shooting it indoors but you are giving up advantages to competitors who shoot higher poundage outdoors. Is shooting 47 vs 55 decisive? No. Is shooting 37 vs 45 decisive among male world cup/Olympics level recurve archers? Yes. It's big enough advantage that no male archer ever make it at world cup/Olympics level with 37.
@@harrynamkoong3361 The only reason scores in archery are still higher in male compared to female is due the overall much lower amount of female practiciones. South Korea being the exception to the general rule because there is a national sport and profusely practiced by both sex since early ages, so the talent of female archers there is much closer to the male archers.
Again, in outdoor barebow the current record was achieved by Ollie Hicks being 15 with 673 points with a Mybo Mykan riser with #30 limbs, while the second best scorer (Jonathan Demmer III) PR is 627, a whooping 46 points lower score despite all the advantage in power and experience.
Archery isn't a sport about athleticism (despite as happens in other things, being fit sure helps) but about weaponizing autism: you have to nail your movements and do exactly the same every time, and if you're good at that you'll get great results even using a beginner wood bow with #20 limbs...
@Buran01
A few important corrections:
- His name is John Demmer III
- His world record was 672, ONE point lower than Hicks. (Same indoor WA18, Hicks beats his record by ONE point, 572 against 571.
- Demmer will have an advantage in windy conditions on 50m where he usually shoots 41-43#
- the same goes for the Olympic Recurve men vs the best Korean ladies. The best ladies can match the best men in good conditions, but they will start to fall behind the windier it gets.
Damn do they make a 10 pound bow😁
While a higher draw weight does increase an arrow's inertia, it does not increase its ballistic coefficient and thus, it does not enable an arrow to "cut through the wind" better. Instead, the advantage of a higher draw weight is that it increases the arrow's velocity and thus, it decreases the arrow's flight time and thus, the wind has less time to effect a fast arrow's flight path than a slow one. Consequently, higher velocity arrows experience less wind drift.