1000W Induction Heating Part 4: Pancake Coil
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- This is part 4 of my inductive heating series. In this video, I make a pancake coil for inductive heating the surface of parts that wouldn't make sense to build a regular coil for. It can also be used for cooking. Induction cooktops are more efficient than a gas or electric stove because there is less wasted heat.
Links to equipment shown in the video:
ZVS Driver
amzn.to/2ih2daY
Meanwell RSP-1000-48 Power Supply
amzn.to/1NqHOYz
Litz Wire for Custom Induction Coils
amzn.to/1kIG6IA
Graphite Crucible
amzn.to/1Mdj34M
Temperature Meter 2000F(1300C)
amzn.to/1NqHV6j
Power Meter 100V 50A
amzn.to/1XnFMNv
Cast Iron Mini Skillet
amzn.to/1MfaT5y
Aerosol Fire Extinguisher
amzn.to/1NwFLlx
Black Gloves
amzn.to/1kIxf9G
Bullet Connectors
amzn.to/1MfaYX7
Fiberglass Exhaust Wrap
amzn.to/1kIxt0K
Here's a patent about litz wire for induction heating and reasons why it's beneficial.
patents.google...
See my instructables account for step by step guides to some of my projects: www.instructabl...
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I especially like your videos as you don't crap on for hours about safety which we are aware of, as adults we don't need to be breast fed every time we watch videos, otherwise excellent tutorials, thanks.
Wait, I’m not supposed to eat a bag of LEDs?
Pixel Bytes Red ones are okay, but the blue ones are too sweet for my taste
I now remember electroBOOM
Great video, but I just want to point out to those viewers who don't catch it that you used Litz wire, which avoids skin-effect losses that you would have with regular stranded or solid wire by using hundreds of strands of insulated fine wires, and is the only reason your coil doesn't get hot. The link you provided for it lists it as 5 bundles of 108 strands of insulated #36 wire, #36 being good to 50kHz and somewhat beyond. And guessing at the size of your coil, I'd say it is at least a few dozen microhenries, probably much greater than the stock coil and therefore shifts the resonating frequency much lower (by about 2/3, I'd guess?), which is not a bad thing as long as you don't go so low that the heating becomes inefficient; the resonating caps, which are what is usually the most stressed in inductive heaters, will run cooler and have lower losses. Good job!
Just seeing this now. Thank you!
This is great. The best part is that it riches very high temperatures very fast. This way there is very little heat lost.
I had thought that coil looked like the resistive heating wire from a heating pad. I was pleasantly surprised to see how well it worked.
Wow, that boiling is really fast. I should consider to make one for cooking coffee - to anxious to wait few minutes to boil. Aside that, I make it on big stove - so yes, it is big waste of energy (until it heat up, then remains hot for loooooong time). Thumbs up, subbed!
If you like my videos, please consider supporting me at Patreon.com/ProtoG42 to help me produce more content. Another great way to support me is buying from my Amazon store here: astore.amazon.com/prg06-20. You can also support me by simply subscribing, liking and commenting on my videos. Thanks for watching!
Hy. Can you tell me how to do this connection. I have 1000W ZVS from China and I want to try but I don't know how to connect it
Proto G Very cool.....do you make tutorials on making these?
cool video ! thanks! great info.
Thanks for doing this video! I have ordered one of these ZVS drivers, which should arrive shortly. For years I have used my "mini ductor 2" with great results to heat ferrous metal. It also has a 1000 watt output to the work coil, as is the maximum output rating of this ZVS driver unit. I do realize that this setup uses a "resonant tank circuit" (unlike my mini ductor 2). My question to you is, how warm do those capacitors get over prolonged use when under load (in the tank circuit)? The fan you have positioned in front of it has me wondering.
+Mysimplefix I have only used the driver for about a max of 10 minutes at a time and that is maybe only 5 minutes under load. I have the fan mainly to keep the heat from the workpiece from creeping back.
Oh OK sounds good! Thanks by the way for replying. Keep up the great work! I'll be watching.
+Mysimplefix hey I've made a whole set up with water cooling for the coil and after 15/20 minutes of use with a high load the along with the mosfets the caps get really hot but with an old pic power supply fan on cooling the whole circuit is enough to to keep them cool for ever😎
+Kyle Brackenfield thanks for posting. I'll be making a water cooled setup too once things around here settle down. It's been quite a year.
Hi Proto G. first of all a million likes for your video.... u truely are an inspiration. atleast for me. this video is amazing. however if u can clarify one doubt for me. what material did u use at 0.33 to cover the coil???? awaiting your answer... once again thanks for the video...
Thanks for this video. It helped me with my induction heating start.
Here's my question. Will a longer length of Litz wire pull more amperage or is it really dependent on the part?
I ask as I might run multiple induction circuits as I will be wrapping around the outside of a 12" diameter pot. I'll surely know the answer once I try it but I'm trying to save myself from splicing expensive Litz wire in half...
I'm curious if I could wrap the hight of the 8" of the pot (yes it will be a lot of wire) or if I'll have to split it between two systems and do 4" x2.
Thanks for your videos! I think you're doing a great service to help the rest of us tinkering around...
Wow that’s pretty quick even tho it’s not very much water
Use graphite rods in a Manson hot air engine stove top fan build to make it run off the induction field. Try to use a low voltage induction so you can run it off a solar panel battery system. Novartis
Thank you for the information
Very interesting. Any plans for testing the over-all efficiency of this?
Throw in a thermal electric power generator in the build or an add on accessory and create an integrated support system you can use for camping or in emergency shelters. Novartis
May i know the thickness of the wire? And where to buy it?
Great. Is the driver half bridge driver?
excellent video. What is the wire gauge? What does it affect?
This is awesome - thanks!
Maybe you can help answer a question??
I am a beekeeper and I sell honey for a cancer foundation through a Non-Profit I set up in NC. I am in the 7th year and I am going to build several new hives. I am going to preserve the wood by boiling it in beeswax and pine resin. I fabricated a vat that is 24"HX22"Lx18"W. It is mild steel with the walls being .125" thick and the bottom being .375" think. Can you offer any advice on how I could build an inductive heater to put on the bottom? The amount of material needing to be melted is pretty substantial and doing it over a flame isn't nearly as appealing as heating it with an induction element?
Thanks
+howardtoob Thank you, you could use induction but a 22"x18" .375" bottom plate is going to probably require more than 1000 watts to heat up in a reasonable amount of time. I think a flame is your best bet unless you redesign the vat to have a much thinner bottom plate.
Hello! Brilliant video. Just 2 quick questions: what cooling fan do you use? I hooked one up to mine yesterday and I fried it's motor as it was only a 12V rated one! Secondly - do you connect it straight to the power supply or do you incorporate it into the ZVS board?
Thanks!
was wondering if the size the copper tubing matters and the size of the wrapping of the copper tubing matters as well?
Nice work! I was wondering how did you bare the litz wire ? to take off the enamel it must be hard
omg cute pan
Excellent work mate, quick to the point, great. I have had one of these ZVS circuits for about 18 months, and I still can't get it to do exactly what I need. I keep trying different coil designs to get the speed of the heating faster. I am heating the end of brass tubing to anneal it. Of course I need different to be able to heat different diameter tube with the same coil but quicker. I cannot get it to heat fast. I have a 36v power supply and it takes 25 seconds to get to annealed temp (399c). Would you have any ideas around coil design that would speed up the heating process to like 3-4 seconds? or do I just need more power? The exact relationship between coil design and speed of heating, is one aspect of induction heating I cannot find any info on the net anywhere!!!
I'm not the author of the video, and I have only been learning about this topic a short while (even though a lifetime of engineering background), and you don't mention the range of sizes of the tubing you are trying to anneal, but in general (I think), you want the work piece to be exposed to the volume of the magnetic field that has the highest flux density. So the inside diameter of the coil should only be slightly larger than the work piece. For annealing just the ends, you might try a double-layer coil, say something like 2 layers of 4 turns each? As closely-spaced as possible yet not able to short any turns. And isn't this heater rated for something like 48V or higher? Try adding a 12V supply that has at least the same current rating of your 36V supply in series, but be careful, the caps will run hotter and may blow if loaded too heavy for too long.
Yeh I might give those a go. I am annealing rifle brass case mouths and necks, for cartridge reloading. So the work pieces are very thin! It is just that the works pieces vary from 0.17" all the way to 0.5" in diameter. So I need it be be 0.6" or so, at the minimum.
Man, thanks for your video.
Currently I am using the same zvs driver for the cooking coil. My s.m.p.s operate up to 48v-18a. But the problem is that the current doesn't increase over 12 amps. Can you guess what to do to increase the current? FYI, I put stainless steel pot on top of the cooking coil.
For this kind of build the main method to increase the current is increasing the resonant capacitance of the ZVS driver. More capacitance means more current, although it may be your power supply not be able to output the needed wattage for the driver.
@@JohnDoe-rm2gs Thanks for ur reply!
My glass cooktop in my kitchen has 4 inductive coils in it (One per cook spot) and it can boil a big ass pot of water in about a minute.
+ElfNet Gaming Very cool, I bought an 1800 watt induction cooktop to do a teardown video and test the power.
It uses less power than the traditional heating element type and is safer.. My goal is to have my ENTIRE home run off solar power with the mains AC grid as an option for the central A/C unit, electric cloths dryer and water heater.
Hi, a question, I did notice a second click when you turned the 'device' on. How do you start up? Do you have a second switch? Do you turn on the power first and then the ZVS device? I understand that when you turn the ZVS on at the same time as the power supply it can get damaged. The FETs could both turned on at the same time or something like that. Can you clarify this to us, how to start up or how to wire this? Thank you.
Is that copper tubing or solid copper wire and do you just connect a positive and negative to a 12-volt feed to power it? It almost looks like 3/8 inch copper tubing but I'm not sure and is it just copper spoiled and then positive to negative it will not harm my batteries or anything?
Guess you shouldn't wear a ring using this coil. :D
Not every ring has magnetic property so not an issue
Well I guess that me been the ignorant on the room, may I ask you, if there is not a metallic object in the proximity of your pancake inductor there is not amperage or voltage draw?? and I guess that the second question will be, can it be projected to work in only one direction? Just don't understand how it can't be consuming power when there is not metal next to it...
A ZVS driver is a self oscillating circuit so it is drawing current when there is not metal nearby.
I did some digging and small stranded silicone wire looks like it would be effective as a coil. The Litz wire is spendy and delicate, normal 8awg silicone wire has >1600 strands and the covering is good for 200*C.
My research led me here; 500kc dot cm/downloads/stranded dot pwf
+XxXAUTOXxX Nope, the strands in the silicone wire are not individually insulated so you do not have any increases in efficiency due to the skin effect. Do some research on the skin effect and read patents on Litz wire and you'll see that it is much more efficient for high frequency AC like in the induction heater.
Did you go to the link? The math is all there.
Yeah, minor efficiency decrease for sure but at a price difference of >10 times?
+XxXAUTOXxX Yeah, I really didn't like that article. There are many different types of litz wire and they did not refer to any of the different types specifically. Their model only claims to be accurate up to 100kHz and they did not compare Litz wire to the stranded wire other than stating that stranded wire losses are substantially higher than litz wire in some cases. They only really compared stranded wire to solid core. The coils I'm using are operating at around 170kHz and other induction heaters operate at much higher frequencies. That might not sound like a lot but the skin depth of current flowing through copper at 100kHz is about 0.009". The skin depth of current flowing through copper at 170kHz is about 0.007". That's a 22 percent loss of usable copper, not even mentioning the losses due to the proximity effect. With high frequency coils, you need as much surface area as possible for efficiency. You are better off using copper tubing than 8awg wire if the cost of litz wire is an issue, although the 8awg will still work as a coil.
+Proto G Fair point, thanks for elaborating.
Watching your vids got me motivated to post a couple more on my other account.
All the best!
You just earned a subscriber ;)
Hi. If an induction coil is 20 cm in diameter and the pan I use is 15 cm in diameter, do you know if a typical induction hob for sale would recognise the width of the pan and only limit the electromagnetic field to that diameter of the pan, or would the current circulate across the entire coil (20 cm diameter)? I am trying to understand if there would be escaping radiation in terms of EMF. Thanks
Would a simple ZVS driver do the business with a 12V 9A power supply? One problem I have always ran into with my ZVS driver is that the wires (coil) and even the capacitor can get really hot due to the high currents involved, though the IRFP250's stay really cool to the touch! Litz wire was able to help prevent the series inductor from overheating but it did not seem to help with the main coil.
+Power Max The problem with a 12V 9A power supply would be that the coils you make will not draw anywhere near 9A with only 12 volts. My coils do not get hot even with 1000 watts. Litz wire is more efficient for induction heating in multiple ways. A 600 stand litz wire divides the current evenly 600 times. This results in less generated heat from the current. I have tried many different strand counts of litz wire and not all litz is created equal. 40 and 100 strands didn't work well at the frequencies I'm working at. I have a fan blowing on my capacitors, but they don't get that hot because there are six of them.
+Proto G I was using around 8 turns of standard household solid copper wire, the coil was made around a normal marker, about 1/2 inch diameter, center tapped, because it needed to be. The best I could do was get a drywall screw glowing, before the coil itself got hot enough to desolder itself from the rest of the circuit!
+Power Max Solid copper wire is pretty bad with high frequency high current. Also you would have been better off with copper tubing or litz wire. My coils do not really heat up on their own. Why did your coil need to be center tapped?
+Proto G cdn.instructables.com/FIZ/4YEK/HJKBPR9P/FIZ4YEKHJKBPR9P.LARGE.jpg
This is the schematic I was using. It is generally used for driving a transformer, in my case, a flyback transformer. It is a variant of a royer oscillator. To turn this into an induction heater, I simply removed the secondary and the core.
+Proto G Great Job! Do you know the Henry rating or any of the specifics for the two toroid coils? I burnt my up. This was good for you since I bought a new one at Amazon (Niaho) at least I think this was you. If not let me know.
Looks like it was about 10-12 seconds to boil that amount of water... I wonder how long to make some mac n cheese... perhaps faster than a microwave?
Im designing a 240W induction heater, I'm using single core 2.5mm wire
by measuring on scope the resonant frequency and voltage stress on switches is right -similar to design-
the problem is its drawing only 40% of power, 'what'd be the issue
I think I should use similar coil with strands instead of single core thick wire
Hot water heater element? How efficient compared to the normal element would it be?
Gostaria de saber e agradeço de antemão pela resposta, se é o calor do fogão que estimula a panqueca a liberar energia ou se é por causa da atividade elétrica do fogão que a coisa trabalha ? Pois se for por causa do calor é só acender um fogareiro que não libere demasiado calor.
I thought that current draw would be determined by the resistance of the coil itself, not the conductance of the magnetic field. Does the 'absorbed' field somehow change the reactance of the coil?
The mosfets are configured in a self oscillating circuit such that any changes in the inductance of the coil will change the frequency and current draw. Look up ZVS driver simulations on TH-cam to better understand how the circuit works.
What is the name of materials that you wrapped around the coil,
Please name it
What is the name white material and black material that you wrapped around.
you should use thicker wires, not because of the temperature, but because of the voltage drop.
Voltage drop isn't even a slightest concern here. You will not even see a 0.1% difference by using thicker wires in this case with such short wire lengths. For example, the 14AWG wire I'm using has a resistance of 2.525 ohms per 1000ft. A thicker 12AWG wire has a resistance of 1.588 ohms per 1000ft. So for this example with about 1ft of wire, the resistance of the current 14AWG would be 0.002525 ohms and the 12AWG would be 0.001588 ohms. Assuming a constant current flow of 20amps, the 14AWG wire would have a voltage drop of about 50mV while the 12AWG would have a voltage drop of about 31mV. Using 14AWG results in a 0.1% voltage drop while the 12AWG would result in a 0.064% voltage drop. We don't have a constant current so let's assume with the 14AWG we have exactly 20 amps flowing. Using ohms law, the load for the power supply(including the wire) is 2.4 ohms. Switching to much thicker wire say, 10 AWG would reduce our power supply load to about 2.3984739 ohms which would increase our current flow to 20.013A. Temperature is the only concern here, not a voltage drop and I've shown that the wires does not get excessive hot so the setup is fine. Voltage drop is most commonly a concern with long cable and wire runs.
+Proto G Well, you're right. 50mV drop won't make any difference for zvs driver. I did not notice how short those wires were.
Can this be used to make a hot plate for soldering PCBs?
Just an FYI: pancakes aren't as tasty when they're cooked too fast, because the middle of them will be mushy.
You linked everything but the coil material. What are you using? Silicone-insulated copper? What diameter?
It's litz wire that consists of hundreds of insulated wires braided together. Watch the other videos in the series where I explain it. I added a link in the description.
+techkitsune Here's a patent about litz wire for induction heating and reasons why it's beneficial. patents.google.com/patent/US4296295A/en?q=induction+heating&q=wire
Hi Proto G.
Does the coil work on both side?
When you turn on the power - If there is another pod at the bottom .. will the coil heats up both of the pod ( Top & Bottom ) ??
if you had a pancake coil with a graphite crucible filled with aluminum , would that work for melting?
What type of tape on this? (heated surface melted it?) wonder if "pancake coil" would heat up tea kettle faster (bottom is "ferrous" - magnetic)
Just a side note for those admiring how fast the little cast iron skillet heats up.
Cast iron is a no-no for regular induction cook tops because they get too hot, overheat and melt the entire induction cook top. The protection does turn it off pretty quickly, so no cast iron in induction.
Unless you want to get it red-hot or melt the cook top!
BS! You need to FILL any cookware, be it cast iron or other, on an Induction field. Period. To cook means to cook food, not empty skillets.
hey interesting video i kust made a induction heater but i was wondering : does you work coil get hot ? mine does ! especially when im not heating metal with it.
thanks for all brother
Hello, I'm from Brazil, how long can this circuit stay on?
Hi, did you managed the output power of this device? In the sense, is it possible, for example, obtain a 500 W output power? If yes, in which manner? Thanks in advance.
Acabas de ganarte un suscriptor megustaria hacer una estufa electrica po induccion y agregarle un arduino para control buen video
Genial no esta mal pa calentar el cafe
I am thinking of making a sort of molding machine by wrapping some of the his Litz wire around about 1" pipe and having it heat up to about 350-450F, any suggestions on how to control temperature and what kind of spacing to use? The link you provided for Litz wire it's 56 bucks for 5 feet and it's 9 gauge, can a smaller gauge be used because it's much much cheaper on eBay.
how to make a induction coil to melt a tube from the inside to outside? the coil must be placed inside the tube.
does the coil have to be around? can you wrap it around a cooling ware and still cook food?
can I make this coil with any type of yarn?
Hey Proto G I was wondering would I fry any of my electronics if I had 2 pancake induction coils facing each other? I was thinking of placing 1 plate of steel in between 2 pancake coils.
I've made a pancake coil for that zvs driver with solid 12awg. Coil is pretty small and can handle 12v but when I use 36v it gets pretty hot. Will making my coil bigger help?
would you be able to control the temperature of the unit by adjusting the current?
does the coil hot sir?
what this wire?
Does the number of turns and diameter of the coil influence?
Or is it according to the circuit current?
Where can I find the circuit diagram of my friend?
Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank you.
There is a link to all the parts in the description.
Wow. Can you melt steel and pour a mold ? I can boil water but its no good to me.
Any thoughts on how to reduce the audible noise?
If i make a bigger one with half inch copper tube do you think i will be able to make a metal foundry?
I want to be able to put a fire extiguiser as a cruicable on it and melt aluminum and copper alloys. Is this possible?
what happens if there is no exhaust fan ?
Hi! Is your Proto from your father? My father is Proto. I'm from Brazil and you?
will it warm the iron in your blood?
Good afternoon. Fellow, you can ask me to provide the diagram
Kako zaštiti kod magnetog grejanja magnetno zračenje , dali faradejevim kavezom ili ima draga zaštita . Pozdrav .
I can't rewinds this coil. this wire don't sticky this tape
Good video
that's good,,,, thanks master
what kind of wire ? how long the wire (maths for output) ? polarity of wire ?
etc etc. etc.
yes i can see there are amozon links, but they dont work ... pitty
what gauge wire did you use?
If you have to cool the components, then how could this save energy? I'm just asking... My mind is saying why bother if it leeks energy!?
Let's just look at an electric stove top. First, you have to heat a resistive element up that then transfers heat to your pan. Induction is substantially faster because the heat is directly transferred the pan and some of that heat leaks back to the coil from the pan. Using a 1-2 Watt fan to keep things cool isn't really a big deal when compared to the 1000 Watts the machine is using. A more industrial machine would use much more expensive components with lower switching losses and better thermal properties.
Thank you for that great information Proto G, I'm not concerned with the energy cost of the little fan, it's heat leaking off the electronics. I'm just wondering is it less than the 60% heat loss with gas? Mind you I'm all for induction due to speed and safely, but I'll always have at least a single gas burner for gourmet cooking.
Induction is more efficient than electric stoves and much more efficient than gas stoves. Induction cooktops are 80%+ efficient, electric stove tops are 70-77% efficient and gas stoves are about 40% percent efficient. Induction cooking is more efficient and faster than both. Not as cheap though.
this circuit is back raises the voltage or amperage
please tell me
what is the principal of indc.heater??
If I used smaller litz wire would it still work.
+seth Yes, but may overheat if you don't use enough windings. You can always use copper tubing or double up thick wire if efficiency isn't critical.
+Proto G Okay, thanks for your time.
Newb question probably... but how does the tape not melt?
+free8704 The coil doesn't really heat up too much on it's own. It not's the same as the coils on your stove, it is wirelessly transferring energy through electromagnetic induction.
Right that makes sense, but the metal object sitting on it gets hot right, so I would think it would melt the tape with that much heat.
saludo desde venezuela puedes publicar el diagrama o la capacidad de los condensadores gracias
Why not design an emergency cooking and heating and power production system that requires nothing to burn or consume? That runs off solar and battery? That generates no toxic gases has a by product? I bet you can do it! ; )
Estou criando uma cápsula q engana a gravidade com pouco consumo de energia,
? 2020
What can i buy this heater..?
awesome
Thanks!
WOW!
please increase the volume
and try to cook a omlet on it
Can i use irfp 250 mosfet?
what type concentrate in surface in coil ?
Please share circuit design please
how woul i make one that heats only between 100-250 degrees with temp controll
Add a temperature controller like this: amzn.to/2h83KPD
Add a contactor like this one: amzn.to/2hFt5Bh
The probe of the temperature controller unit would need to be attached to the part or on a base the the metal sits on.
How many price
you can buy the complete induction heater at Costco for $ 49.00.
yes, they have induction cooktops at Costsco and other stores but those are much lower frequency so they can only be used for cooking and not other things like heat treating steel. The lower frequency results in much more even heating, which is good for cooking. Higher frequency will start to be affected by the skin effect and heat the outside surface of the object much faster than the inside which is good for heat treating.
Nicely
Price kya hai is machine ki
@ (Cooktop de Indução ) Fogão de 127v com baixo consumo de energia a Custo zero com bobina de(TESLA)
No lo entiendo pero me gustó
What was the point of speeding this up to the point that only Tesla himself could figure out what you were doing?
berry gud
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