The Problem With Prequels
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Prequels are bad. They suck. Always. Every Time. Okay, so that's not ALWAYS true, so today we explore the general problems with prequels, prequelitis, and how to make a good prequel by analyzing famous (and infamous) prequels such as The Star Wars Prequels, Fantastic Beasts and The Crimes of Grindelwald, The Hobbit Trilogy, and Better Call Saul amoungst others.
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You credit the Hobbit book as a good prequel at 17:19 but it came out before LOTR. The trilogy was a sequel to Hobbit. It wasn't a prequel to the trilogy. No malice intended, just an observation.
wow, you shun all the best movies that I have scene.
The Hobbit book came out first.
I was aware, I meant it more as an example of what a good prequel should look like.
@@CenterRow OK Keep up the good work.
At 17:20, you mention "the Hobbit" book as a prequel. Actually, although the Hobbit movies are a prequel to lotr, the book was written and published before the lotr books. The Hobbit book isn't a prequel to lord of the ring, it's lord of the ring that is a sequel to the Hobbit.
I was going to comment this but checked to see if someone else have.
Hence why it works so well!
@@CenterRow But the book still isn't a prequel man.
Damon Lawson Yeah but what is he meant to do, ACKNOWLEDGE his mistake? You expect too much from your average TH-camr
Yep. It's was also written like 20 years before the the fellowship of the ring, and has a very different tone than lord of the rings, being somewhat less serious and more comedic.
Calling the Hobbit book a prequel is like saying the Sorcerer's stone is a great prequel of the deathly hallows.
Nick Fury lost his eye to a cat? Boring.
Nick Fury lost his eye fighting his brother who became a traitor and joined Hydra?
Cool.
Yes!
Disney: cat goes prrrrrrrrrrrr
I like that better, I never grew up in the comics, I was born in 2002 so I like that type of thing better
I never grew up with the comics but him losing his eye it a cat is stupid as hell
Idk i liked the cat
My biggest issue with most prequels is the absence of danger for the main characters that are in both the prequels and the original film(s). You knew Obi-wan and Anakin weren't going to die no matter how precarious the situation for example. I'd rather see "prequels" like Rogue One, where you had no idea who was going to live or die... plus the ending was amazing.
Agreed!
Which is why I always recommend that you should ditch the old theatrical release order and instead watch them in episodic order, as they were intended
My god that's a simple yet genius aspect!
@@BatTCK which is a good idea but when studios pump out prequels after you've watch a sequel....xD
Moses Hrangbung I understand old fans loving release order because they saw the sequels (OT) first, but a huge pet peeve of mine is when people introduce new fans to Star Wars using release order. If they’ve never seen any Star Wars before, show it to them in episodic order, the order it’s supposed to be viewed in
Edit: I do understand your statement, but now that all of the Star Wars films have been released and there’s no real barrier (other than OT purist gatekeepers) preventing new fans from watching the films in episodic order, I don’t think it’s that strong of an argument
I don't know about you guys, but I love Revenge of the Sith. It's probably my favorite prequel, and close to my favorite film.
Couldn’t agree more
I love it as well! But it has some issues I feel are common to prequels.
I always loved all three of the prequels
Noooooooooooo
Much like Monty Python it’s been memed so much that it doesn’t feel like it’s worth watching again.
Basically, prequels fail for the same reasons as sequels. Need to keep original, but still in touch. Loved this video 👌
Thank you!
But with a sequel, you can take what people loved about the original and add to it, with advanced technologies, new discoveries, higher stakes. With a prequel, the goal of "going bigger" and the goal of "going backward" clash.
As Gary Kurtz put it when discussing prequels to Star Wars he basically said he dislikes the idea of a prequel because you paint yourself into a corner trying to get the story to where it has to end up (paraphrasing).
I personally think sequels are better than the original.
Prequels typically suffer considerable more restrictions than sequels, though, so their track record is much worse.
Sequels have the option to expand upon the original, usually laid right before them. Prequels, however, have a laundry list of things they have to address for continuity reasons before they even start to work on new material.
(Unless they find a way to insulate themselves considerably from the original.... which some of the good ones in this video actually do.)
The Hobbit book is not a prequel. The Lord of the Rings series is a sequel.
Yeah lotr was released like 20 years after the hobbit
Yes, but it serves the function of a prequel well so it's an example of how to do one properly
@@CenterRow Sorry, I don't buy it. You're saying that the way to "do one properly" is to have already written it years before.
A good "proper" prequel, IMO, would be "The Magician's Nephew" as prequel to "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe."
Well said.
Center Row It’s literally not a prequel in any way. Stop doubling down & acknowledge you got it wrong, you’re just making yourself look dumb.
Bumblebee is good because it could become a reboot instead of a prequel, which I think they're already planning
Hopefully!
Hasbro confirmed it’s a reboot.
@@shinndig1293 Good
It's a confirmed reboot. That's why the timelines don't add up at all. In the original live-action Transformers franchise Bumblebee arrived on Earth in 2004, not sometime in the 80s. The Bumblebee movie is completely separate from any other Transformers films, hence why it ignores all the lore that was built up the last 13 years.
Bumblebee was good because Michael Bay had nothing to do with it.
The Fantastic Beasts franchise could have been this really fun series that just happened to be in the Harry Potter universe. The only reference to HP in the first movie is that Scamander was expelled from Hogwarts.
Then, they went and shoehorned the HP story into it and messed up the timeline for the sake of fan service. The worst example is McGonagall showing up as a teacher in 1927...eight years prior to her birth.
exactly!!!
I would add clone wars to the exception of good prequel shows.
Spoiler alert for clone wars season 7 and Rebels.
Siege of mandolore was released after rebels and we wanted to see how ashoka, rex, and maul survive the events of revenge of the sith. It adds weight to the Vader ashoka duel. We saw the final goodbye between ashoka and anakin. We knew ashoka let her views on the jedi cloud her friendship of anakin. We know that if ahsoka knew anakin was going to turn she would have swapped places with obiwan.
Clone Wars is indeed a great show that fleshes out the prequels in amazing ways. The issue being, a lot of what's there should've been in the movies first.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it and all, but I still think it would have been better if Rebels came after. It's still a testament to the show that I was on the edge of my seat even though I knew how it would end; however, I think it would have hit home a million times harder if it weren't for Rebels.
@@Zakatak-mf4iq
True, it would've been so much better if I hadn't already known who was going to live and die. Still, I'm pretty sure Siege of Mandalore was already planned before they made Rebels, it's just hat the show as cancelled. So in that case, it's the fault of whoever decided to cancel the show, not the fault of the writers.
I'll be honest. The eye reveal from Captain Marvel is my favourite example of "prequel answers a question you never had."
It takes a badass line from Winter Soldier and delivers an anti-climax. I love a good anti-climax.
Haha fair enough
@@CenterRow I have a theory about the eye scene. I view it as more than just a cheap gag (which is its by the way).
In Captain Marvel, we actually learn that Nick Fury isn't the badass he pretends to be. His is an ordinary person in a world with shape shifting aliens and a woman who shoots blasts of energy out of her hands exist. He also lost his eye in a rather humiliating way.
So the whole attitude is him compensating. He is scared. He hides this behind an act of toughness.
If the story behind how he lost his eye was the same as the one he told Captain America in Winter Soldier, it would be less satisfying for me. That is because said reveal would have been what I already knew. However the cat reveal in my mind adds depth to the character. He is an ordinary person in a world of titans. His eye patch is a reminder of this.
Bobby Ranger I still think it undermines the character he was set up to be... I’d rather not ruin such a brilliant moment from the winter soldier showing a hardened man leading a gobal security agency in fields like espionage and intelligence. This moment in captain marvel, while it’s actually an interesting idea the way you talk about it, is still an extremely disappointing “subversion of expectations” from what nick fury is established as. This would have been a good move if the character wasn’t so well established in the series; explore a softer side of him, show he’s just human. However, Nick fury as we see him through the mainline avengers story is a battle hardened, intelligent man, who has learned from experience not to trust people. This line in winter soldier helps to reinforce how SERIOUS a character nick fury is, how he has to be ruthless and cunning in his world. The fury we see in captain marvel seems more like his happy go lucky younger brother than the fury we have in avengers. I don’t think him losing an eye to a space cat, which is a plot point almost out of a cartoon, leads to him not trusting people in the deadly arena of international espionage. It’s an undoing of his character that shows a charming and friendly side of him, a side I like, and a side that just doesn’t match what we know nick fury to be. Maybe this could work, but there has to be more explanation into how he changed from this silly Everyman into the hardened head of shield, and I think that if a movie were to explore this, it would have a more serious scenario that damages his eye further (this might even be a good moment to show that he must adapt to a serious, dark world... take his eye for real rather than just the scratch from before, it would actually be an excellent character moment)
@@willmungas8964 this is what i had in mind
>anti-climax
Le sUbVeRsIoN Of eXpEcTaTiOnS XD
To everyone telling him that “The Hobbit” is not a prequel, that is only half true. The book DID come out before the “Lord of The Rings” books, but the movies did not. So while the source material is not a prequel, every change and addition the filmmakers made falls into the camp of a cinematic prequel quite nicely.
He specifically calls the book a prequel at 17:20
He was talking about the book, not the films (of course the films are bad prequels, but not the book that was completed over two decades before the LOTR books were finished). Fun fact, In the original publication of The Hobbit book, the ring was just a magical ring that made you invisible, and nothing else. (aside from a plot device that Bilbo used to get out of a jam). The ‘one ring’ story hadn’t been devised by Tolkien yet, so in the later publications he added some stuff in subsequent printings of The Hobbit to give it more gravitas and link up to the larger narrative he was coming up with for LOTR (like Bilbo lying about how he escaped and about having the ring, because he was already becoming possessive of it). Tolkien himself adapted The Hobbit a little bit to fit in as a prequel to LOTR after the fact.
The book is not a fucking prequel, stop defending a lazy person who fails to acknowledge their mistakes.
I'm really happy you mentioned Red Dead Redemptation 2. I went into that game never having played the first one and it works incredibly well. The few references they make to the original game are actually done expectionally and it leads into RDD1 without feeling forced.
I'm not against the idea of prequels as long as there's a story that's worth telling.
Red Dead 2 is amazing.
Gaming has a lot of great prequels.
I’m playing red dead redemption 2 right now and had no idea that John was the main character of the first one, not Arthur
The problem with prequels is that they are often only made to cash in on the success of a property.
The Hobbit is also not a prequel to The Lord of The Rings. They are just 2 separate stories that so happen to exist in the same universe
True!
Center Row that The Hobbit isn’t actually a Lord of The Rings prequel?
@@thevfxmancolorizationvfxex4051 To both statements.
Wasn't lotr a sequel to hobbit? If we're going by the books
@@PP-kx9ec I believe that LOTR started life as a sequel to The Hobbit, but eventually became it's own self contained story
I think it's a false problem to say that doing a prequel is limiting your creativity. There are a lot of way to tell a great story with a prequel. The way I see it, there are 2 main problem that are linked. The biggest one is the "everything at once" problem. Solo is the best exemple of this. They took all the iconic aspects of the caracter and tried to put them all in one movie. As if every major event from his past happened in a very short time and then, nothing until the original movie. The second problem is lazy writing. Instead of working to make a new original story, they copy-paste from the original or rely on tropes that are way too comon.
(Watch the ending of the video)
Even if there are lots of ways to tell a great story with a prequel, it is inherently limiting your creativity. A story has millions of options. Good or bad. A prequel, having to have some things end a certain way limits your creative options. You can tell a great story in a regular movie. You can tell a great story in a prequel. But your options are limited in a prequel that they aren't in another movie. Example: What can we do with Chewy? Lots of different options. He can die saving Han. Nope can't do that because he has to be alive in A New Hope. That's a limit. Does it mean you can't still write a great story? No. But the statement is that it limits your creativity.
Did you even watch the video?
Porfirio Rubirosa it is limiting to some degree - even if it is a small one. Because there are SOME things absolutely cannot do with the story. Even if it’s only a few things it’s STILL a limit.
@@misterfaust1 Honestly, I see that as a boon. Creatives make their best works when limits are put on them.
"Nothing is going to compare to that people have imagined in their minds" turns out that goes for sequels as well.
ToolTime agreed. *looks pointedly at Kathleen Kennedy*
The Star Wars prequels are...weird. See, the story they tell is amazing and beautiful and tragic-it’s just not told well. That’s why the Clone Wars series is so popular. It’s about the story of the prequels, it’s just actually told well (most of the time). The story they tell is great BECAUSE we know what’s coming. But Clone Wars takes advantage of that better, because it does it through foreshadowing instead of fan service. It’s weird, because in retrospect, I feel like the prequels absolutely should exist, because they give context to the original story, and I believe that a prequel that provides extra context to the story of the original is worth telling. But despite telling a story that deserved to be told, they fell into the traps you mention in this video, because they weren’t executed well. For instance, I think Solo could have been really interesting-if it was written well and was about how an idealistic hotshot became the jaded pilot we met in A New Hope. Instead, we got what we got. So I don’t want to discount prequels, because they have their place and when done well can enhance the story we know. They’re just....not usually done well, and the Star Wars prequels and clone wars are the perfect examples of how poor execution is just as important as story, and without solid execution your movie/book/whatever will come off just as much of a waste of time as Crimes of Grindelwald.
Well said! I love the story the prequels are trying to tell and I feel if they were executed slightly better they would have been masterpieces.
Center Row that’s why I feel like they have such a weird place in the “prequels are a bad idea” argument. Ironically if they had been executed well they may have been an argument on how prequels can be a GOOD idea.
The Star Wars Prequels also flesh out the Jedi and Sith philosophies, their differences, and their subtle similarities. Palpatine's conversation with Anakin at the theater in ROTS does an excellent job at deconstructing the audience's perception of the Jedi and reveals the unfortunate truth that some heroes deserve their fall.
I actually think Lucas's first pass with the prequel movies made Anakin's fall to evil more realistic and substantive while the Clone Wars TV show retconned Anakin to accommodate people who empathized with him more than other characters. Movie Anakin was always a bad guy and Clone Wars Anakin is never a bad guy.
To recap Anakin in the movies:
1) Anakin acts like a put upon victim in Attack of the Clones' first act because Obi-Wan talks down to him off-screen.
2) When Anakin is hanging out with Padme in the field of flowers, he admits he wishes the Republic was actually a fascist dictatorship.
3) When Anakin's mother is kidnapped, he commits a mass murder after rescuing her, including slaughtering a bunch of helpless children.
4) In Revenge of the Sith he murders the unarmed Dooku.
5) Anakin is placed on the Council solely due to his friendship with Palpatine, then he gets angry when his powerful friend can't just give him the role of Jedi Master.
6) When he witnesses a fight between Mace and Palpatine, he cuts Mace's arm off for trying to kill the force-lightning spewing Palpatine. While he originally says it's about justice, he later admits he just wants his power. (This is made more hypocritical by the fact Anakin did worse in the first act of the film.)
But Anakin in the TV show is free from canon. You can watch a version of Anakin who never struggles with his constant, pervasive moral failings and is instead treated as a freewheeling space cowboy who plays by his own rules and wants the best for everyone. And that's a nicer character, one who feels more tragic in the long run, but that's not the Anakin from the movies at all.
MrBazBake huh, interesting point. You’re certainly not wrong, but considering how Luke sensed the good inside of Vader and how Obi-Wan described him in A New Hope I feel like, even if it was a bit of a retcon to his portrayal in the movies, clone wars Anakin was who Anakin was supposed to be in Lucas’ mind.
Some prequels, I don’t think, are supposed to be watched before the original work, ie. Rogue One
Porfirio Rubirosa Rogue One is probably the best Star Wars film Disney have produced so far!
Porfirio Rubirosa Rogue One is masterfully written. Change my mind.
If I made a prequal I'd want it to be a good introduction to someone who hasn't seen the sequels but also interesting for those who have
Rogue One isn't perfect but it's shot and directed brilliantly, and it gets you to care about all the characters even though you know they all die.
@@JohnDRuddyMannyMan The Last Jedi. Don’t change my mind
Anikan's wasn't exactly one movie. In the dreaded Phantom Menace, Yoda says the path to the dark side is fear, anger, hate.
The first movie showed his fear. In cannon, his anger festered during his training a lot. Then in Attack of the Clones, he showed his anger turning into hate against the sand people. The actor was really good, acting like how someone wood if they were constantly angry but had to keep it inside themselves. In the third movie, Palpatine heightened his fear, directed his anger, and lead him to his hate.
I'm not saying the Phantom Menace was any good, just that the trilogy was thought out. I can't deny him being a whiny teen, but I think that's what lead him to the dark side.
yeah i think the prequels are a mix of good and bad but the good certainly outweighs the bad in my opinion
I was so hyped for fantastic beasts when I first heard of it. I was never big on Harry Potter, always felt in deferent to it. But the world and creatures always fascinated me.
So when I first heard they were making it I always pictured a taika waititi/ what we do in the shadows esc mocumentary about newt documenting these creatures and constantly getting into near death experiences. The first film did have some of this. But by the second one they had completely left it behind. It's as though they forgot its based on a book called "fantastic BEASTS and where to find them".
But yeah I think your point about making a spinoff is honestly a really good one and something I wish more of these blockbusters would do.
Man, I wish that had been the case. A mockumentary about fantastic beasts sounds fun.
Rdr2's story was such a good prequel to red dead redemption
The best prequel of all time
I think the Dark Crystal tv show is a bit of an exception, where knowing the ending actually adds to the experience. It’s like watching a Jewish community in 1930s Germany. Hindsight hangs heavily over the whole thing.
They also focus mostly on new characters. We genuinely don't know how their stories will end.
Quirderph exactly! It’s fun trying to work out the parentage of Jen and Kira’s parentage!
Hence why The clone wars works so well.
The Problem With Prequels: We all know how everything ends.
Exactly!
Thats only ONE of them... theres more than just that, as stated on the video and I couldn't agree more with its content.
@@pedroandrade79 There are other reasons, sure, but this is the most important one. At least to me. That's why I never manage to mustered the strength to watched The Hobbit.
Idk, everyone knew how Titanic end, but the journey was what matters. Shakeaspeare began Romeo and Juliet saying the couple would die, but the romance was still compeling. If knowing the end was a demeaning factor, no mo ie would be worth rewatching.
Idk about you but when I watched TCW S7 I was on the edge of my seat for the finale because I was so enthralled with the story. Even though I knew what would happen I was still shocked when that certain thing happened. Even when you know what will happen if the story is good enough you'll become engrossed in it.
I disagree with 8:00. Attack of the Clones clearly shows Anakin's temptations with the dark side. His (at times) disobedient and reckless nature, falling in love but having to keep it a secret, losing his mother, slaughtering a village... all important steps in his tragic descent to the dark side.
The best prequels I’ve ever seen were in the recent Planet of the Apes trilogy. They enhanced the original so well and Caesar is totally awesome. They’re honestly some of my favorite movies of all time. Although you make some fantastic points about why prequels are generally gross.
They are so good.
Just call it the Ceaser Trilogy
Previously mentioned MGS3 is one of the greatest prequels but I'd also like to add Yakuza 0. It was made between the 5th and 6th entry but most if not all players recommend it to the newcomers. Pretty much all callback are strictly shown in side quests and it retroactively makes the first game's plot better e.g. in the first game main character's friend becomes the villain in the 1st hour so you didn't have much of a connection to him but in Zero you interact with him half of the time so his decisions feel more natural.
Oh wow, I just started playing it and had no idea!
There's probably a reason First Class and Bumblebee ignored established canon
Yup!
Response to part 1: fully agree!! And response to part 2: I hate blind consumerism! People need to stop consuming bad products!
Exactly
20:11 and this is why The Clone Wars works so well-it focuses not on establishing the OT, but developing Anakin and his relationships, and showing the start of his gradual fall. It takes the liberties that it can to establish itself as fresh even as a prequel series
Great video!
Just, you mention the original Hobbit book as a good prequel, but it's not a prequel.
It was written and published before the saga of the rings of power. :)
True! Probably why it's a good one!
Center Row No that’s why it’s not a prequel at all, but sure, keep finding creative ways to not admit you made a mistake.
@@Toribot but he agreed with you. Why you still being rude.
its important to distingush between the book and the film
the book is not a prequel and is good
the film is a prequel and is not so good
It helps if a prequel is many many years in the past so that all the characters who were in the original are not born yet. Warrior Cats Dawn of the Clans does this well and I find it very satisfying and interesting.
Totally agree!
The Hobbit isn't exactly a prequel because it came out first. It's just the first in the series.
LOTR released nigh-on twenty years AFTER The Hobbit - hence why The Hobbit is simple and childish and LOTR is much more detailed and mature: the audience grew up during the wait.
@@Tedris4 Very true.
True
The LoTR books are a sequel to The Hobbit. The Hobbit FILMS are a prequel to LoTR.
Xmen first class is my favourite prequel ever and my 3rd favourite film of all time. it ignores most tropes and as you said in the video, it uses your knowledge of charles’ and erik’s splitting up to add to the emotion and tragedy. the ups and downs the film takes you even though you know the ending, are apsolutely incredible. not only do i think this is a great prequel, i think it is a magnificent film as a whole. thank you for coming to my ted talk.
6:52 on the Bumblebee thing, it's been reclassified as a Reboot since before the film was released. That's why Optimus even shows up on Earth and they omitted a scene of Megatron on ice.
That makes more sense
Well Hasbro doesn't even know what it wants it to be
I think the “we know how the story ends” thing can work if done correctly. Going back to The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, while the story obviously isn’t going to have a happy ending, the anticipation of what leads to that sad ending is an effective driving force. The story also currently has some good world building, giving us insight into the citizens of the Capitol, seeing that before Katniss’ time the tributes were treated like prisoners of war instead of honored guests, there is prejudice amongst the Capitol and the career districts, etc. We might not have had these questions, but the answers are intriguing.
Agreed actually. It's one thing that irritates me often, but like anything, if well written it can work marvelously.
Watching this gets me worried about the Sopranos prequel, “The Many Saints of Newark”. I’m worried because the original series balanced humor and drama so perfectly. This prequel looks too serious.
I too am worried
Man, now I gotta watch Saul lol
Yes. Yes you do.
Indeed!
In my opinion compared to breaking bad, better call saul is the infinitely more compelling narrative!
Though, I loved it at the time and still hold in high regard...
Breaking bad's structure, plotting and pacing almost seems hackneyed next to Saul...
Not to mention bad's overuse, and increasing reliance (especially during both parts of the final 5th season) on cheap "last 10 seconds of episode WTF?!! Shocker" tactics...
Saul is just the more competently crafted narrative progression.
One thing I liked about the first Fantastic Beasts movie was that it didn’t really try to tie its plot with the og Harry Potter films so it was more of a side story in the same universe that adds lore rather than something that adds “plot” to the HP movies like FB2
At least bumblebee went from "prequel" to "soft reboot"
I acutally think that while they call Bumblebee a reboot because of Hasbro's reclamation of the rights to the movies. I think they are rebooting the franchise. And it serves as a soft reboot.
Star Wars prequels are underrated. They say how Anakin fall to the dark side perfectly and if you pay attention you'll see that each prequel movie has a part of his fall.
TPM : fear
AOTC : anger
ROTS : hate (and at the end came the suffering)
While it's true that The Clone Wars added many things, you can still enjoy the prequel even without this (also amazing) show and understand the story.
Now if you want each movie to deliver everything in a dish then just don't watch movies that have more hidden and in some extent realistic approach. For example many fans dislike how Anakin flirted with Padme, that he was cringy etc, but just remember that it was his first time trying to flirt and that she was the woman he loved for almost 10 years, of course he was going to be like that. I mean most people when they first try to flirt can't withstand the pressure of speaking to your crush. That part of the movie is executed very well because someone could relate himself to Anakin. And I can say many things that people mistake in many prequels and not just Star Wars
I’d say temple of doom is a pretty great prequel. The thing is it doesn’t really matter that it’s a prequel. You could just say it takes place after ROTLA and it would be fine.
Exactly!
Agreed, it’s probably the best prequel out there. Primarily ,IMO, because it shows Indy becoming the person he is in Raiders. It lends weight to Belloq’s line in the bar “Our methods are so different as you like to pretend. It would take only a nudge to make you like me. To push you out of the light”. That touched a nerve with Indy because he’s only recently left the private collection mercenary archeologist lifestyle behind. So many people don’t even know it’s a prequel, that’s how well done it is!
It is a prequel?
Domino 1650k tbh, I’d not consider Temple of Doom a prequel. Heck, I wouldn’t even consider The Last Crusade a sequel. None of the events of the 3 movies seem to feel connected or are referenced in any way. To me, it’s 3 incredible, fun, exciting adventures with Indiana and some sidekicks.
@@joeyjerry1586 that's the reason I love indiana Jones so much is because they are just fun independent movies
Prequels are like sequels. They either run out of ideas or introduce awkward ones that makes no sense.
Run out of ideas? When did they ever run out if ideas? I mean the clone wars and everything was Lucas's vision from the very beginning.
The sequels ran out of ideas or didn’t care to even form a new story. The prequels were a beautiful mess of ideas from George.
6:43 I know you probably didn't know this but Hasbro has confirmed that bumblebee is in fact a reboot. They announced it I believe a little over a year ago.
very few prequels actually know to incorporate that the audience knows where the stories go. why I love revenge of the sith is that it relishes on the doom and gloom because it knows where it has to end...so it doesnt pull its punches with the visuals, music, and tone in that 2and half.
I'd agree!
This makes me think of a genius prequel idea. Have a crazy plot twist where a character is revealed as a bad guy. The OG is in a whole perspective and you can make a sequel where its revealed to the characters and maybe it could maybe be done really well
A Star Wars game from the 2000s actually has this sort of Twist.
Such a good point about how "fan service" strips away the integrity of a film. When a film is being propped up by the viewer's knowledge of a property or previous piece of media, it no longer can stand on it's own merits.
As for those saying The Hobbit isn't a prequel: yes, the book was written first, but the movies were direct prequels to the films!
Exactly!
Another thing that needs to be mentioned when good prequels are brought up is Metal Gear Solid 3, which is often considered the pinnacle of the franchise. Unlike a lot of prequels, MGS3 took the opportunity of being set in the past to lower the amount of baggage and necessary knowledge to understand it. And it focused its story around a character who was very important but who we hadn’t actually seen a whole lot of in person, especially if you didn’t play the original Metal Gears.
I haven't played it, but now I want to!
MGS3 and MGS1 are the two best entry points for the series. So yeah you should give it a shot!
I don't understand how knowing a character's fate can ruin a prequel. Nobody reads a Shakespearan tragedy to be surprised that the titular character died, do they? It's all down to the quality of the work.
Actually I just finished the new prequel for the Dark Crystal on Netflix and I was blown away... the prequel is better than the original movie... no joke.
It's SO good!
I didn't grew up with 'Star Wars', either the Prequels or the Original Trilogy, so the worst example for me 'Captain Marvel'. And I wouldn't even call myself the biggest MCU fan but when I remember sinking into the cinema seat in disappointment.
The franchise used to be a universe filled with various stories. Then, that movie came and hogtied everything into a single story, and just to favor its titular character. Sure, it was always aiming for an ultimate crossover but there used to be, I guess, a sense of spontanity to it.
The kicker is that the character is designed specifically to be over-powered that it creates a dissonance to the established universe.
I'm gonna paraphrase Jenny Nicholson, but the worst thing you could do [on an ending], is make you feel silly to have been so invested at the start. I still enjoy a good chunk of the MCU, but only because I try; I apply major head-canon to it.
One of my favorite prequels is the game five nights at freddy’s 2. What makes it so good is that it being a prequel is a plot twist, and you don’t know until night 6.
Hasbro confirmed that Bumblebee is a full REBOOT for the Transformers movies ignoring all the Bay films even though it was originally planned as a prequel (The film went through a huge course correction in both writing the script and the editing room) And I personally feel this was the smarter call since now they can take it in any direction they want. Now we just have to hope they don’t completely fuck it up again.
Interesting. I too think this is a better direction
Coming soon! 'The problem with Disney Sequels!'
I think everyone is well aware of those problems
@@CenterRow Absolutely!! Lol Great video by the way, subscribed!
Scott Napier yeah as a prequel it pretty much only tells of how the ring ended up in the shire for Bilbo to get it. Which is still covered in LotR. Aside from that the events are entirely separate from the story of LotR.
@@scottnapier943 Thanks!
Sometimes I feel like the only person who loves the Last Jedi. It does away with the callbacks that 7 & 9 suffer from.
Red Dead Redemption 2 is probably the quintessential prequel story. A story that can stand on its own based on writing yet enhances its predecessors story
It's so good
I think Better Call Saul is the quintessential prequel Story. Maybe even better than Breaking Bad.
Unpopular opinion, but I love The Hobbit trilogy just as much as the TLOR trilogy. Even if you were disappointed of it, there's no denying that no other fantasy movies, at least the recent ones, can match the epicness of both trilogy combined.
Did you read the book?
"...the epicness of both trilogy combined."
That's the problem with it. _The Hobbit_ was not an epic, it was a fun kid's book about a stick-in-the-mud character learning to become more adventurous, and trying to cram an "epic" story line into it worked as poorly as it did for the godawful Tim Burton _Alice In Wonderland_ from 10 years ago.
For whatever reason I read the thumbnail as The Problem with Problems. It's like my brain replaced Prequel with Problem
That's better. I'll rename it!
If you want another good "prequel" watch Black Sails. It more or a less a prequel to Treasure Island, (although you really don't need to have read TI to watch it.) It blends many of the most memorable characters from treasure island with historical pirates and figures of the age, into a genuinely amazing and well written show.
be aware though, the first season is a bit of a slog, after that each season get exponentially better, and in my opinion, season 3 is one of the best seasons in TV history, write up there with season 5 of Breaking Bad and season 2/4 of Game of Thrones.
The one I hate the most is prometheus/alien covenant
The aliens are no longer even really aliens
Smh that choice is so convoluted and just does nothing but destroy the mystery and premise
8:10 most of it was smushed in the final film.
You forget about Anakin’s rampage through a whole village? In Attack of the Clones?
Midichlorians don’t control the force, they create it.
Exactly. He said *most*
i disagree when you say that knowing how it ends ruins the experience watching the prequel
for me, what i enjoyed the most while watching the star wars prequel, was exactly knowing hot it ends, because it gives a sense of tragedy that wouldnt be possible otherwise. so for me, watching anakin grow up, be friends with obi wan, etc, while knowing that he would eventually become darth vader was much more heartbreaking that would be if i just watched it with no clue to what was going to happen. i think that in those cases the point is not the suspense of not knowing whats coming, but the journey and the inevitability of it
its the same with x-men. i know how it ends, so seeing xavier and erik having their friendship and seeing it crumbling apart to become enemies we know is tragic
so i think that the real issue with prequels is indeed the overuse of nostalgia and fanservice in such a way that it becomes what drives the whole movie, putting the story itself on the background. i also find really annoying when literally everything that happens in the world happens to or because of the same bunch of characters, or these characters families, because they are the ones the audience knows from the original
I actually agree. It's one thing I can find irritating in prequels, but when done right it can be used as an advantage.
The Hobbit was written before the Lord of the Rings.
I think the main problem with every prequel is we know what's going to happen and that the characters that we already know won't die< it would be very hard to some how make this factor irrlevant when writting a prequel and I think Star Wars did a decent job.
It was the nagini one that I found unforgivable.
It's just so bad
Prediction. It is going to be retconned by making that woman the person they named the snake after.
To be fair to Rogue One; if someone goes into Rogue One, the, chronologically speaking, 5th film in the franchise, with no knowledge of the rest of the story, that's not the failings of the film, that's just stupidity on the behalf of the moviegoer. If someone who's never seen Star Wars before watches each film in order, there's nothing in that movie that will make them question what's going on, save for Leia's cameo at the end, which is quickly answered in the very next film.
But the difference is Solo and Rogue One aren't canon since neither have Lucas's involvement.
I won't accept them as official canon since Star Wars the main story was George's story. Just because he sold the company off (something I know he regrets doing) doesn't change anything. It's like someone taking Stephen King's The Stand and adding a bunch of adventures of Stu Redmond before he meets up with Mother Abagail. It doesn't belong because it's not what the original author intended it to be. That is how I see Disney meddling with Star Wars, it's not theirs to screw with.
What should have happened with Star Wars is they made completely new films OUTSIDE of the original 6 films that have no bearing on those 6 films. They needed to start completely new and they wouldn't have had the backlash they have gotten in recent years.
@@LUCKO2022 For canon-only viewers the entire topic is a moot point, so why comment on it at all?
I feel like I’m the only one that like the hobbit films. Everyone says it didn’t need to be 3 movies but I love middle earth so I’m not complaining that we got to spend more time in this world. Another complaint people have with it is it’s not as good as lord of the ring and I don’t understand what people went into the theater think that this 300 page kids book was going to be just as good as the great fantasy epic ever told.
I feel the tone of the first half of Fellowship would have fit the Hobbit movies great, I felt they were trying too hard to make it into Return of the King.
Center Row yeah especially the third one the battle was a pretty poorly done but was still more entertaining than the battle in the book
DaVinci, the problem with the Hobbit was the many changes to the story away from the book (if I am incorrect concerning any of these, please forgive me as I only watched them once a couple years ago).
1) The entire goblin fight in the plain.
2) Azog surviving the battle of Moria, and his return.
3) Their stop in Rivendell.
4) Their entire encounter with the Goblins in the mountains.
5) How Bilbo became separated from the group.
6) The riddle game.
7) Bilbo's escape from Gollum and the caves.
8) The entire climax of the first movie.
9) The trip through Mirkwood.
10) Legolas.
11) Love Triangle
12) A Silvan Elf and a Dwarf falling in love.
13) Orcs in upper Mirkwood.
14) Two sides of the love triangle assisting the dwarves by killing aforementioned orcs.
15) Legolas in Lake Town, or anywhere else for that matter.
16) The entire climax of the second movie (maybe I should have just laid claim against the entirety of the second movie since my criticism eliminated so much of it).
17) The death of Lake Towns Master.
18) Bard killing Smaug using his son.
19) The Master's idiot underling.
20) Dragon sickness.
21) Thorin's dragon sickness.
22) Gandalf's imprisonment in Dol Guldur.
23) Galdalf's rescue from Dol Guldur.
24) Sauron manifesting himself as himself in Dol Guldur.
25) Galadriel being sent to Lothlorian for her recovery.
26) The Nine in Dol Guldur.
27) The Battle of Five Armies.
28) Death of Azog.
29) Death of Bolg.
30) Death of Fili.
31) Death of Kili.
32) Death of Thorin.
33) Legolas traveling to Angmar from the Lonely Mountain.
34) The love Triangle issue again!!
35) The death of the Master's servant (though personally I enjoyed it, and it was the most enjoyable part of the battle).
36) Thorin's recovery from dragon sickness.
I am certain that I have forgotten some detail or other that contributed to the hatred this movie gets, but these are the major problems where the movie deviated widely from the source material. I am not in disagreement that things needed fleshed out for tge battle as we only have Biblo's point of view, and he is removed from events rather quickly and only hears rather than sees events. However, it was the above deviations that made people upset.
Jay T you are incorrect on a lot of this and I don’t know if you have read the book. You also repeated your self many times to make the list longer. In some scenes they added a bit more action to it just like lord of the rings movies. Other stuff that was briefly mentioned in the book was give more screen time like where Gandalf disappears to because in the book he kinda just leaves. And like I said I really enjoyed middle earth and the lord so I’m not mad that we got to stay longer in this world
@@davinci3478, reread my list again. I did not often repeat myself, and many of their "additions" were direct contradictions of the history of the original tale as told by Tolkien. I own and have read the original book many times since I was a child.
Azog was slain before the doors of Moria 90 years prior to Bilbo's birth. Bolg is slain by Beorn. Legolas never appears in the Hobbit, and Killi never has a romantic relationship with an elf. The Master dies in the wilderness after stealing from his citizens. Bard shoots Smaug with the Black Arrow from his own bow. Angmar was a realm to the Northeast of the Shire on the opposite side of the Misty Mountains from the Lonely Mountain. Smaug destroyed the door tge dwarves came through, but he never challenged them in his own halls. Thorin was obsessed with the Stone, not with the gold, to the point he was willing to cut a deal for it. When the orcs, attacked he emerged in full battle armor ready to assist the others. I could go on proving my case instance by instance, and I do not criticize all the choices made, but the movies are an insult to a great many of us because of the more than 30 errors I pointed out.
Yes, I did repeatedly mention Legolas not being where he was because he never appeared in the story at all!! Further none of the deaths were book accurate either. I have issues with the adaptation of tge Lord of the Rings, but in general they were more book adherent than the Hobbit.
I am not criticizing you for enjoying them, but let us not lie about their quality as an adaptation.
I’m pretty sure they were very clear about Bumblebee not being a prequel to the Bay version
Just a few prequels I enjoy:
Red Dead Redemption 2
Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
Better Call Saul
Halo The Fall of Reach and Halo Reach
Solo
But das jus me do
Love me some Reach
Torna: The Golden Country
@ChestHighWalls was it? I thought it was after.
Edit: turns out it was being written at the same time Halo CE was being developed. It was published a month before the game released. Wow never knew that.
I honeslty like all 3 hobbits and star wars prequels
Bumblebee was originally conceived as as a prequel but it eventually ended up as a complete reboot
The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance is one of my favorite shows even though I saw the movie before it, I read that the show is like several years before the events of the movie. And Season 1 doesn´t end where the movie begins. The Garthim War that happens after the ending of Season 1 isn´t shown outside of the books. So personally this doesn´t really affect me when it comes to The Dark Crystal show.
One show that made me see the potential in prequels is The Assassination of Gianni Versace where every episode takes place before the last one. Learning how we got to a certain point can be a great payoff for a mystery previously established.
Interesting!
I still maintain that one of my favourite prequel stories of anything ever is the "I, Davros" audio play that acts as a sort of prequel for the beloved Doctor Who story "Genesis of the Daleks".
What it does is something Genesis never got much time to do, develop Davros as a character.y showing how he got to where he is by that story. One of the things I find so smart about it is that they manage to make him a totally rootable protagonist without ever making him sympathetic. He is a terrible person from even his childhood years, but you get behind him because he is also very much the underdog. Everything conspires to work against him, from enemy spies to his superiors sabotaging him, to the shelling that caused his horrific injuries (that his own people seemed to be secretly hoping that he'd euthanise himself because of). Yet, he keeps on moving and never stops until he gets what he wants, and by the end you almost think he deserves it, really.
Interesting!
You must absolutely, positively send this video to every Hollywood producer. Please and thank you.
Ha! Wish I could, feel free to send it to all your famous Hollywood producer friends!
I have a point that i disagree with you in Solo. The Solo movie shows how Han Solo is really a good guy but due to his living situations is forced to join this life of smuggling when he was a young kid. Han deep inside is a good person but his proffesion and his job keeps him away from truly being himself. He grew smuggling left his correlia to get his own ship but is forced to join this crew and this world of criminals and bounty hunters in order to survive and provide for himself doing something he is good at which is piloting. The ending where he shoots first shows how he molded into this person that whats to do right but knows whats at stake and does what he need to do in order to stay alive
The hobbit was written before the lord of the rings.
If you look at The Star Wars Prequels seriously, excluding memes, clone wars, nostalgia. Then they're not good
I never thought the star wars or Hobbit prequels were bad. But unfortunately sometimes the majority opinion is taken as the absolute truth
You can still enjoy something while acknowledging it's flaws!
@@CenterRow "prequels freaking suck. Are you thinking about making a prequel? Stop, don't." I understand if you don't like prequels, I respect all opinions. But that statement is very subjective. And in my opinion; you can't be a critique without being objective.
Exactly! I love the Star Wars prequels also among others but I guess jumping on the hate wagon is more fun.
They are bad. It's just you were too young when they came out to know any better.
PasserMontanus They’re not bad. It’s just that you were too old when they came out to know any better.
(These types of dumb excuses in debates make you lose credibility and makes it appear you have a lack of information.)
I actually consider Monster's U a good prequel. They couldn't do a sequel because the interesting thing about the world was the monster society that needed to scare kids for energy, but that went away at the end of Inc. So a prequel was the only way to stay in that world. It's fan service wasn't that bad. Roz showed up, but she's not treated as a big deal. The abominable snowman shows up but he kind of looks like the necessary John Ratzenberger cameo more than a character cameo. The ending was still surprising because you expected them to get back in the school and then it doesn't happen. But the best thing was it's the only prequel I've ever seen that makes the ending of the original better. The ending of Inc. has Mike become the best laugher at Monster's Incorporated because children find him funny. Then U focused entirely on Mike instead of Sully and showed how his dream was to become a scarer but he couldn't because he wasn't scary, but he gets to have his dream at the end of Inc. It was so good.
But yes, the voice actors are obviously older.
Oz The Great & Powerful
God, I didn't need to be reminded about that movie -_-
I had completely forgotten its existence until I made this
I actually like the movie and that's because I don't know it's a prequel? what's the original movie?
I really don’t think the Star Wars prequels are that bad, revenge of the Sith is GOD, rouge one, and solo I enjoyed very much. Bumblebee was great, loved first class and Star Wars episodes 1 and 2 are good in my opinion. Oh and the clone wars is INCREDIBLE
uh no attack of the clones was universally considered the worst for a long time
The hobbit isn’t a prequel the hobbit was written well before lord of the rings it didn’t suck cause it was a prequel it sucked cause it was a bad adaptation
One of my biggest gripes with prequels is that they retroactively undermines the actors' performances in the other movies. Take Alec Guinness for example in A New Hope. When you go back and flesh out his character, his performance now seems more hollow as he wasn't able to take all that into account when filming.
Phantom menace: I’m the Worst sw movie
Rise of skywalker: hold my blue milk
Purty much
Rise of skywalker is way better than phantom menace
Joao Francisco, The Last Jedi is so so so much worse and Attack of the Clones is worse than The Phantom Menace imo. At least Rise of Skywalker and Phantom Meance were entertaining and had a clear plot and had some damn great action sequences. The Last Jedi was so boring and did not even have a story and Attack had 2 subplots going on.
SW(ANH) = TESB = ROTJ > ROTS = TLJ = Rogue One > TPM = TFA = Solo > AOTC = TROS
Hydra Spectre
Personally I think Revenge of the sith is the best Star Wars movie just barely better than any of the OG trilogy movies, but I know that’s a bit controversial.
I have a theory that if Anakin was never mentioned in the original trilogy, and Skywalker was a name like inherited from his aunt and uncle instead of it being from Anakin, the prequels would have been way better. Especially if they hadnled the turn to the dark side better. You could watch a young anikan grow older and slowly become more evil, until episode 3 when he is finally revealed to be Darth Vader. It would have made it so much cooler. Because it would seem to be just an origin story for obi-wan from the eyes of a young Jedi turning into a sith. But then the final reveal I would show that actually this is Vader's story. This would work both because it would be creating a new character no one knows yet so they would have more freedom to mould him into what they want rather than having a set course all the way through. They could have little hints here and there. And the final reveal would both be a satisfying conclusion to the prequels and a fan service moment that felt earned.
Honestly i love the star wars prequels 🤷🏻♂️ also the disney star wars prequels are aweful because the EU already had better stories written decades earlier (and also the disney sequels the EU trilogy for thrawn was infinitely better)
I have a lot of love for them too, but they still have flaws.
@@CenterRow true
Lindsay Ellis did a great video investigation into what happened with hobbit. As i remember, jackson didn't want to do it so del toro was going to be the director. But then the upper people saw his designs and style and, i guess, it was very different from original trilogy so the studio shat their pants. They were afraid that people won't go see it and hate it. So they convinced jackson (i guess big money involved) to direct. He had no time to prepare and, i personally think, didn't really give a shit. He just wanted to be done with it.
Half-Life Alex was a damn good prequel but that was a game.
Ooo, haven't played it yet
@@CenterRow I guess I have to mention that it's VR only so only a select number of fans get to play it.
Giffy it is a prequel but it also has some time travel elements so It’s kind of a prequel and a sequel at the same time
The Star Wars and Hobbit prequels have massive flaws but I still love them
And that's fine!
Center Row, if you manage to see this, what do you think should change to make Rogue One a prequel you like much more...???
Me personally; it serves as one of, if not the best, Disney Star Wars films that morally complicates the Rebellion, which gets expanded on in other areas such as Clone Wars and Rebels, provides a great war film, with Disney's best done space battles rivalling The Battle of Endor and the best modern use of Darth Vader which has only been replicated by a fan made redux of Vader and Obi-Wan's fight called Scene 38 Reimagined. Personally, even how uneven the pacing of the beginning is with planet hopping demonstrates how fractured the Rebellion is and how they come together on Scarify near the end.
I actually made a video on the subject:
th-cam.com/video/KW_WsE65wr0/w-d-xo.html
Wonder Woman (2017) is a Prequel and it's good!
Your right that would make
It the best prequel.
It is quite good
The Star Wars prequels have aged like wine they are fantastic, if a bit cheesy
Good way to put it
It's all down to opinion. I hate them. Some people like them. Roughly 50/50 split
prequels are great and fun in my opinion. if u just watch the movie to enjoy it i think youre gonna like em except maybe attack of the clones at times. Prequels also make the originals better
Hey, cheese and wine. Perfectly tolerable combination, even if it'll give you goddamn migraine...
The only good Star Wars prequel is Revenge of the Sith, I know people like to hate in the sequel trilogy but at least 2/3 of those movies are good and not just 1/3 of them like with the prequels
The clone wars finale. That is how you do a prequel. Not only did it have Revenge of the Sith to try and work around, it also had Rebels and Solo. Yet it somehow pulls it off. We all know the fate of the characters, we all know order 66 is coming. And yet it is my favourite bit of Star Wars. The finale arc shouldn’t be counted as a Tv show. It deserves to be a movie. And in my eyes, it is a movie. I still can’t believe they pulled it off.
Perfect example!
I actually think Monsters U is a great prequel. We know how it ends but it is an interesting journey where we get to see characters struggle and succeed.
It’s pretty alright, haven’t seen it in years but I remember liking it
Better Call Saul is just about the only prequel that worked out well.
Yup!
No Star Wars movie is worse than The Phantom Menace
Facts.
Rise Of Skywalker: R U sure about that
AOTC, TLJ, TFA, TROS
I just named four
I'm personally a huge prequel fan, but in all honesty, it's probably because I grew up watching the Clone Wars cartoon, it was my Star Wars, and I am willing to accept that the prequels are very flawed, but I love them anyway. The soul is still there, unlike the sequels.
Red Dead Redemption 2 is literally the perfect prequel.
I love your videos dude!!! Make them more often pleaseee
Thank you! I'll try haha
The worst prequel ever, at least imo, is Solo. That movie is simply boring af!
Agreed. I should not be that bored watching a Star Wars film
@@CenterRow *cough cough* Phantom Manace *cough cough*