Is this why my Mercedes 220E keeps cutting out?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2022
- Slowly but surely working my way through my Mercedes 220CE W124 wiring issues. The biodegradable wiring is giving me a lot of gip.
I think I've narrowed the issue down to a certain piece of wiring that is shorting out. Now all I have to do is work out how to replace it all.
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I love watching you because you are learning as you go and you are teaching us by trial and error! Awesome!!
Appreciate that, Roxanne 👍🏻
A biodegradable wiring loom! What a crazy invention! I get the need for protecting the environment but it must surely result in more cars being scrapped. I'm thinking of offering all the car manufacturers the chance to buy my patent for a chocolate exhaust manifold, it'll be a winner for sure as no cars will ever work again.
Patience is what's needed Nino, listen to the other followers and construct a new loom from the ECU, also check the throttle body to see if that's normal on a Mercedes forum.
Shelved for now I guess? Been following and enjoying. Great channel!!!
You are in for a world of pain with that biodegradable wiring loom. I’ve done quite a few of early 1990s Mercedes. I hate to bring bad news which is you may need a completely new wiring loom. Most of the time now I just bit the bullet & replace the entire wiring loom about 10 hours of work. I don’t even try & diagnose I just junk everything & start again.
Yeah the whole wiring loom needs doing for sure. I'm gonna give it a go later on this year, but for now just want to get it running so I can have a drive around
@@NotEconomicallyViable good luck 🤞 I’ve had a few of these old 1990s mercs that I initially though were a fairly simple wiring loom job. That turned out to be a gigantic pain in the backside. Because the old stuff had also fries a few of the sensors which needed to be replaced. So be prepared for just about anything. Apart from the crappy wiring these old Mercs are extremely robust.
Part way through watching this vid and screaming, 'check the IAC valve.' 😮
Oh man, I just bought w202 1994. has same engine as yours and almost have same problems as yours. can't wait to watch your videos to see where you will end up so I can :))
Would suggest a few feet of 7 core trailer wire to splice in, Colours will not match but you should be able to work it out. Nice and flexible so should suit as a replacement that will not break down. I would also recommend getting some of those cheap 300mm wires with a crocodile clip on each end (£2 or £3 for about 10) that make multimeter easier to use as one end can clip on meter probe and other end on source being checked allowing hands free use of the meter.
The owner of that house must love you ! Good luck with the electrics. It's all Witch craft to me.
Haha you're not the first person to mention the occupants of that house. If it wasn't the Merc parked there then it'd be someone else's car. Distinct lack of parking space round here!
Good to see an update on this car enjoy seeing what needs doing , they use a synthetic fuel in rallying now
Synthetic fuel for the win 🏁
My 1996 S126 E220 just died. One run with a hickup, twice, and after that it didn’t start again. Wiring loom that need to be changed. And I knew this was a 320 engine issue, but as you stated in your last video, it is all the facelift engines, from 1993. I wonder how many otherwise good 124’s that have been scrapped because of this issue. This was the first start of the ever since downward spiral of Mercedes quality. I haven’t gotten around to fixing my estate yet, so I don’t know all the work that will be needed. Just know that a new one is about £1000,-. Allready Mercedes started having too many computers…
Haven't read all the comments but worth checking fuel tank breather for a vacuum, try running with fuel cap loose for a few minutes or when removing cap check for tell tail fizz when seal broken, cheers
keep us all updated, i feel that the car will be up and running by the fourth of july. good luck
Nino if it was me, I’d make a whole new loom for the MAF, just get the same size grade cable and chop out all the bad parts then either solder and heat shrink if you got the capabilities or use crimps for now just to get it running, then you can get someone with good soldering skills to do it all for you :)
Yeah looks like that's what I may have to do. Will crimp it to begin with and then look for a more permanent solution 👍🏻
@@NotEconomicallyViable if you were near I’d help you with all the soldering, as I’m based outside London :)
They used at those times bio degradable insulation. You have to replace all wires one by one.
I’ve just had a very similar problem with my Golf Mk3 2.0 and it would cut out as soon as it got up too temperature (a mile and a half up the road) and I was told it was the ECU relay as 99% of the time it’s always the problem.
The previous owner had given up on it because of the problem but I solved it in the end when I used a £10 VAG code reader and it was was giving me Crank position sensor codes each time it happened.
I took the gamble and bought a NOS sensor for £12 as the wiring for it was shot but only after changing the coil and relay plus leads rotor and distributor cap and earth lead first and it’s been as good as gold since.
Luckily Old Golf parts are dirt cheap so the parts bill for NOS parts was only about £30
That's a result. A couple of people have mentioned to me about the coolant temp sensor needing to be replaced, which fits in with what you're saying about the engine cutting out when it comes up to temperature, so I've ordered a new one. These W124 parts aren't the cheapest 😬
OL on the multimeter is "open loop"
Yes Nino missed the vids
Have you seen the wiring connectors that are a shrink sleeve with a solder sleeve in the middle that solder and protect all in one.
Get yourself a fuel pressure gauge setup and check whilst it's running and if it cuts out with good fuel pressure you can rule out that side. Then look towards the electrical side, its unusual for a wiring fault to cut it out whilst stationary and not moving. Sounds like an ign relay. Check all those silver metal relays.
Thanks for that, Jon. I've just ordered a fuel pressure gauge, so I'll do that test you describe 👍🏻
i thought you were moving her onto your drive? good content as usual. motors proper trick...
I've just bought another project that's taking up that space... 😬
After having owned 8 or more W124 i have seen this before, cant remember exactly the details but typically there is something that heats up and the car would cut off and not willing to start until temp was lower, which was the coolant temp. sensor at the front of the engine block that caused it. Wiring loom is typically bad but even if they look like shit they seem to work anyway, can you drive the car early on, is it possible to give it good throttle without it choking out on fuel ?
Thanks for the advice, Hlynur. I've just bought a replacement coolant temp sensor, so I'll see if that makes any difference.
With a cable so bad I wonder is it worth even re terminating or jointing. As you said this is only the insulation damage you see, so much more could be hidden. This is quite a big part of my day job looking for earth leakage and insulation damage, I'd be looking for a whole new loom to save many headaches. The continual buzzing around the throttle body is similar to what I get on my Alfa 145 which is Bosch fuel injection.
Good to know about the throttle body 👍🏻
I very much plan to replace this whole wiring loom, but for now I want to repair it just enough to drive it round the block a few times
Blink test is the small black box next to brake reservoir.. U you probably already found it?
Did you manage to solve this?
Have you even plugged in an odbc reader to check the obvious or see if there’s no merging to go on.
What I think you have is a few issues going on.
The high idle, I did have a w202, m113 engine. Was caused by a dodgy o2 sensor.
As for cutting out, it’s almost like it’s either getting to a temp and cutting out or not getting enough exhaust out and it’s just shutting down.
To old for an eobd reader
Just to add, if someone can start the car for you with you at the bonnet, when falters see if a few squirts of easy start can keep it running - try to find how to used it as not a continuous squirt but squirts with a second or 2 between is the way. This would also prove if fuel. You could also have someone crank it when it stops with you using easy start. It may then start and keep running using above squirt technique if fuel issue. Sorry if hard to understand but it is sort of a knack.
Yeah that makes sense. Where do I actually squirt the easy start? Into the air filter, or do I squirt it straight into the throttle body?
@@NotEconomicallyViable Into the air filter housing should be suitable, maybe better if you can drop the filter out to remove any restriction. If throttle body access is easy it may be better as this will be nearer the cylinders. Did you see my comment about a timing light or one of those HT inline testers that shows a spark to prove if you may be losing a spark when a component heats up. Keep up the great posts, but remember to take a break if things appear to be going nowhere as a break can assist your train of thought and stop overthinking.
Unplug the ECU connector from the ECU. Work out which pins in the connector go to the MAF sensor, then check each one for continuity from the PIN to the sensor plug. That will tell you if the MAF Sensor cable is damaged.
Ahh yeah great shout - didn't think of that 👍🏻
Good call, but to be 100% sure it is best to put 12v through the wire and light a small bulb. The wire can be barely hanging on there by one copper strand and it will show continuity, but when there is current flowing through it, the resistance will affect the result.
The rubbish job that has been done, (regardless if it's the problem fix) needs to be sorted. Ebay or Merc spares places try and get another engine loom and see what you can do, The engine bay loom is breaking up (original to the car) if its bad there its bad in other places, ( "I'll get a fire extinguisher!") So time to change/work on the whole loom- sometimes there is just no quick fix and if it was easy everybody would be doing it
Agree 100%. At this point I just want the car running to take it for a spin around the block a few times, but I'll definitely be rebuilding the whole loom 👍🏻
Did you change the crank shaft sensor mate?
You need to watch some South Main Auto videos, Eric o explains things you just need to find one of his diagnostic vids on something old. My recommendation would be a) get a wiring diagram for this car, b) buy an engine loom and replace the rats nest you have the cars good enough and it will save some stress, also poking about you have no idea what your doing to the ecu and if you bugger that your in a world of pain.
A mercedes with Italian electrics how interesting 🤔 😀
Just had an idea (again).........if you just press a bit of speaker wire into a "+" on the fuel pump relay
.
(the 2 parallel is "+" and "-" ......... connect up an LED so you can watch the supply .....
.
then if the LED blinks and then the car cuts out ..... you'll know the ECU is stopping the car ????
...
(it may be trying to stop the engine from overheating ? )
...
OBD2 will tell you mate
.
cheers
nino the plug that goes into the back of the ignition barrell works loose
i cable tied mine on and happy days
common fault
Hi there. All this talk of throttle body. Mmm as it runs to a certain temperature, then stops, is there an ignition spark at the plugs? It could be the coil is shot. Had this on a Vw. Ran fine when cold. Also, try the engine coolant temp sensor in a pan of water slowly heated. Check its resistance change. If that sensor is shot the ecu could cut the fuel at a certain temp. Good luck as always..
Thanks for that, Neil. I've done a bit of research and some people have had problems with the coolant temp sensor failing and making the engine cut out, so I'll take a look into that. I'm also going to check for spark when it cuts out 👍🏻
Does the car have any sort of after market immobiliser ?
Have you tried jiggling that harness while the car is running to see if anything changes? Obviously that wiring needs attention but I'm not convinced that is where your cutting out issue is coming from. Also the hood switch on the fender, is that a factory part? or has this car had an alarm or remote start wired in at some point?
It has had an alarm system fitted in its distant past. All the wires were cut many years ago.
Re solder wires properly and use heat shrink on them then see how the patient is
Sorry but enjoying your problems, keep going
😅 👍🏻
Are you taking good care of my future S type? lol
You need a new wiring loom to the engine bay. Its obvious the existing wiring is a complete bodge
Yeah 100%. That's just the first bit I've come across - guaranteed to be more bodging going on once I start digging. New wiring loom is definitely on the cards.
At that time they used bio degradable plastic insulation on the engine harness...god save you if that turns out to be the case. Open the relay and re solder the joints
is the ecu loom separate to the entire look. you might be able to get just the ecu loom separately
I'm not 100% sure, bud. Will have to check
We need to get you full time working on TH-cam imagine your content then! Please can you think about merch to id definitely buy some
Hopefully I’ll be full-time early next year 👍🏻 You can grab merch at www.noteconomicallyviable.com 😃
@@NotEconomicallyViable thanks for the reply! My top 3 car youtuber to watch love it keep it up tonight I’ll having a lil sesh finish off that other playlist and cool I’ll get some on pay day :D
@@NotEconomicallyViable and could even ask for something for Xmas pressie lol
Great to hear bud 🙌🏻
Could be the fuel filter, I had a Honda that used to cut out at regular intervals like that, Changed the fuel filter and it never happened again.
Cheers, Dean. Will take a look into that
@@NotEconomicallyViable best to do that first mate before you start spending serious money.
This is why buying things from the Internet is dangerous because if the returns policy is crap which a lot is you are out of pocket 😤😤
I would test the wiring at the connection not at the plug ..The wiring at the connecter and before is likely the problem not the replacement plug(??)
Not as scary as it looks
Unplug the loom
Pull it out
Buy some good rolls of car electric wire get the main colours you need
Pull off all the protective covering
Use a board of wood to lay the cable on
Mark the cable wires onto the board
You can do this in the comfort of your home
Tack a nail at each end and start to copy the loom
Then use a soldor to attach each connector and seal with shrink wrap
Good to know. I'm definitely gonna have a go at redoing all this wiring
What's the charging voltage? Are you sure the over volt relay isn't kicking out?
Not sure to be honest, definitely something I'm going to check
I do wonder if these cars have auto choke? If so, then does it run on a different feed? As soon as the car switches over to that feed, could it have no signal and kill the engine by losing signal to the idle control valve/throttle body? I know normally if a MAF is bad the engine will run but pretty poorly. I did see the throttle blip when the car shut off too. Normally, electronic throttles do make a noise when the ignition is on to make sure the intake of air is just right at start up. Maybe try to run it with the MAF unplugged and without the inlet so you can watch the throttle during idle 😁. Also, definitely worth checking the rotor arm and the MAS fuel pump relay, they may cause similar issues 👍
Noob question: do fuel injected cars have a choke? I've always just associated a choke with carbs. A few people have now mentioned checking the throttle body, so I think that's going to be my next port of call 👍🏻
@@NotEconomicallyViable Not noob at all! They do, sorta. You may realize when you start a petrol car the revs may be a little higher then they would be on a warm start. This is essentially a 'choke' feature that uses more fuel in the cylinders to create a hotter burn which therefore heats up the engine quicker. Sometimes this can be bypassed with a quick rev. I know on Vauxhall's and Hondas I've worked on, the auto choke seems to run for around 2 minutes but I'm sure it varies from car to car 😁.
when the maf is unplugged the ecu should run on a default setting. Usually when a maf is knackered the car runs rough as hell.
Porsche have been working on synthetic fuels to run there old cars
Whats about your Gasoline pressure, this relays heat up and fail as well...
You have some Updates? Always try to figure out the most simple things, you can check with your hands and ears, does the Pump have power or makes sounds, does the Spark come, see if there is some oxidation, this all does not cost money i is just simple use your intuition. The engine will run as well if there is some failed sensor, but you have to watch for a major issue, Gas, Air, Power (Spark) these engines are simple and the EURO2 does not give you a dashlight so quick if there is a sensor failure, Euro2 have the sensors only for the exhaust control, not for Engine running correctly he needs to run on open loop easaly...
Wiring in w124 was biodegradable, was supposed to last 20-25 years
The high idle could be a dirty throttle body ,have a look .
Couple of people now have mentioned to check the throttle body, so I'll definitely take a look 👍🏻
@@NotEconomicallyViable use an old toothbrush and some carb cleaner if it’s dirty .
It should be able to run on default mapping with no MAF sensor
Yeah as soon as it goes to open loop, it will be reading air flow
If you are keeping the car replace engine harness , a few hours work will save lots of headaches
Absolutely going to replace the engine harness 👍🏻
Call the AA as a Joke lol 😂
You need to change those looms out otherwise you will be chasing your tail with these issues, or buy a multimeter and a scooey
What if its a simple fuel filter?
Mobile workshop...parked right in front of a road drain. Seems sensible enough 🤔🙄😂
Maybe the MAF connector wires are not spliced into their correct counterparts? Would only take one to introduce an issue?
I would get the right MAF lead and splice it in properly but you will need to identify the connector pins both ends.
The backpack was over the drain at one point, I swear 😅
Yeah some further investigation needs doing for sure
Did you ever solve this issue or not? I only see your vids asking the same thing on and on...
The fuel pump only runs for a second and a half mate
classic facelifted w124 issues . just redo the wiring for long term prevention
Yeah I'm definitely gonna redo the whole wiring. For now, though, I just want to fix it enough to drive it around the block a few times 😅
I'd prefer to have an easier life and get one car sorted before buying more problems
What can I say? I'm a glutton for punishment...
Sounds like when it switches from closed loop to open loop . Lamda sensors ?…….
i know for a fact that you can get a new harness for the 320 engine have a search for 220s
I've found a guy that rebuilds harnesses for about £600, so will bear that in mind
Ford capri / cortina ?
You need to get a wiring diagram and change any old tired wires . Otherwise you'll be at it forever and ever and just use it for TH-cam videos until everyone gets bored if they are not already and end up with no viewings and no car to enjoy apart from having endless cups of tea in it or using it as storage. Best of luck.🤞🤞🤞✌❤🍀
Check The valv sensor in my car it run for 2 min and it died
I would just plug my scan tool in and look at the live data and then you could see what is causing the issue
This car is pre-OBDII so you don't get to do that unfortunately.
@@NotEconomicallyViable you could try an obd1 scan tool
Tape the wire up separate then it will not short out
It baybe the ecu
I have a friend breaking a 220E coupe if you need parts.
Ahh interesting. I'll bear that in mind 👍🏻
its not that hard to rewire that to the cpu just trace each wire back to the cpu and swap out the old for new and the wires you can see are gone good luck
Get yourself a copy of autodata
Why would the wiring be so rotten and fragile . I have a 40 year old ford granada and the wiring is just fine. Older cars were so much easier to fix. Far too much complication on modern ones . All to do with emissions I guess . All a big con .
From 1991 - 1996 they used wiring that had a biodegradable sheathing. So over time it's literally biodegrading. Rubbish design.
I think the problem is the battery you need one with more cranking amps. Good luck
Get an auto electriacn out to have a look at it save you racking your brain !
Wracking my brain is the whole point 😉 I do know when to ask for help, though, so if I can't get it sorted after lots of effort I'll get someone to come sort it
Fuel Starvation/to much
caused by faulty fuel pump or blocked fuel filter. Cuts out due to too much gas. Wont start as its flooded. Not enough gas cuts out.
Thanks for that, David. I'll take a look into that.
Must beware of some of this Chinese rubbish even some non Chinese stuff is crap, find a parts supplier you trust and stick with them where you can
Used cars are scarey!!!! ☠☠☠☠☠
Why don't you call for a recovery truck and have your mercedes car taken into a car garage Nd have it fixed professionally
If its worth doing shrink tubing is the only way to go.
Remove this alarm system..these old system always goes wrong with time as it nay cut the electricity to fuel pump or the ignition
w124s doesn,t have OBD standard, means no diagtool for these models. let me give you a little advise here. engines need 3 thinks to work. 1 compresion 2 spark 3 fuel... so, you clearly have compresion. point 2; spark, buy a cheap spark tester and plugin in, when car dies and you try to start and fail see if you actually have sparks. if don't your coil is damaged and needs to be replaced. point 3; fuel, if fuel is not getting with the apropiate pressure to the injectors it cause the fail. what to do? when car won't start add 20cc of fuel (or a tequila glass amount) to the air filter, if car starts for 5 seconds your pump or fuel filter or even your fuel pump relay is getting bad.
after all these test you cae reach to the point of failure. w124s ECUs are not that smart to replace maps or getting limp modes. they just control timing spark and injectors pulses by tps, maf and O2 sensors... also you need to see if your EZL selector is allright with your fuel octane quality, EZL selector is in left side near battery compartment.
cheers!
Thanks for all that, Patrick 👍🏻 I'm going to work through those problems and see how I get on.