I still find it so funny that dredging a bigger number was believed to be the DOWNSIDE of the card during balance testing, yet it's now the only text on the card that even matters.
A higher dredge number was intended to mean you can't rebuy the card as many times in a game (and even less if you're rebuying other dredge cards too), or you're more likely to mill other non-dredge cards you might have wanted. The idea was that you can get them back, but over the course of a game, you'd eventually deck yourself/run out of other threats.
@@bananalord3882 Well the important thing to note about troll is that it gets +1/+1 counters equal to creatures in graveyard and the ability to regenerate itself.
For future reference: Leyline of sanctity would have been a ok card to bring in against Relic/Tormod's crypt because both of the cards have : "Target player exiles a card/ their graveyard" on them, meaning you would fizzle that mode (in the case of karns getting tormod's crypt they wouldn't be able to hit you with it) and it giving you hexproof means they have to deal with it before your graveyard (outside of cracking relic that is). I know it is commonly used as anti discard, but it works against certain graveyard hate effects as well
Reminder : Just because it's not a typically preferred style of Magic, Dredge is still Magic. Unpopular Opinion : Dredge is the epitome of what Magic as a system is capable of. It's a strategy that is strong, attacks at a unique angle, and also has metagame solutions that flatten it.
Conflagrate is important to have in the deck basically always, because it changes your 12 points of non-attacking damage with Creeping Chill, into 18 points (because it's not all that hard to get 6 cards in hand dredging), which turns janky Narcomoeba beats into the crucial last points of damage to win. In any game where attacking isn't reliable, it's vital to have access to Conflagrate.
Dredge and Living End are both decks that constantly cycle in and out of being Modern’s boogie men, and as a person who loves both decks I find it hilarious
I'm suprised these deck archtypes never found a way to integrate a back up plan. A lot of decks in magic have plan B's but dredge has remained largely the same. This and artifact decks seem to be the decks wizards actually balance properly due to major past errors. Though hoggak was recent enough.
SETH! You should do a chaotic transformation deck because we can now create token creatures, artifacts, and enchantments with instants and sorceries. Please?
@@Frostgiantbutsmall that’s Indomitable Creativity, which is also in pioneer, along with basic Transmogrify decks in pioneer. Chaotic Transformation is from Dominaria United, standard legal, and would have the best shot in that format since the cards OP referred to are all in standard right now
I love the idea! I have been experimenting with that card and it is really really hard to play no creatures and get role tokens on things. Still getting artifact enchantment is decent, and getting creature artifact is as powerful as ever
@@c.thissell8751 is it possible to attach cursed roles to your opponents creatures easily? I haven’t experimented with roles, but that’s the route I feel like I would go? You still own the token aura, but you still run into the issue of control/ creature lite decks
id love a series on classic modern decks that you normally wouldnt get a chance to see-- like, we havent seen infect in a while and it could be cool to see you try that out in the new modern format! edit: i forgot about Fury actually
Hearing bear pant the entire time is so cute and great video! Modern is by far the most diverse and fun format I can’t believe dredge still performs this well with mh and mh2 running the show
Don't forget that you can cast Darkblast on your upkeep, dredge it on your Draw step, and then cast it again later in the turn to kill an X/2. I've played both Modern Tron and Legacy Dredge, and historically at least, I found Tormod's Crypt to be a lot like Fog - it'll stop you for now but only for now, compared to Leyline of the Void which is much more urgent to deal with. Dealing with Crypt and Relic of Progenitus both is a lot though :) In the last match we saw basically a monored burn deck with Sacred Foundry game 1. With nothing else to go on, I would be tempted to sideboard in Duress and Wear//Tear: the number one sideboard answer I can think of out of white would be Rest in Peace, and they still have artifact hate (Tormod's Crypt et al). Not sold on Ancient Grudge here - Wear//Tear gives you the flexibility you need to take out any graveyard removal, and if you lose game 2 you can bring in Ancient Grudge if they seem to be relying on artifact hate.
@@TheMCGamer2012 as far as i know it was just a an attempt to replace faithless looting but it never really panned out. Its a solid choice but turns out theres better options.
I knew a guy who played Dredge in every format a few years ago, and it turns out that the cards that are incredible in Dredge are usually stone-unplayable in any other deck, especially if your build isn't running Life from the Loam, so the nonlands are surprisingly cheap.
Nice to see dregde again. Now that you are doing it, could we see a redo/update to the old manaless dregde (against the odds) deck? Im not sure, but i think that deck did get some new playthings.
It's mostly just the same exact deck except instead of flayer of the hate bound>gravetroll>flame kin zealot You just get back thassas oracle Exact same deck besides that
This is exactly how i feel about modern atm. Thats why i built 12 bogles that's just all in on a 1 drop with auras that cant be targeted (theres a new one drop with ward 2 thats close enough to be a Bogle) and Lightpaws answer my two drop or die. Its just built around getting a broken 2 drop down and throwing a canopy cover on it and killing them. Even built a legacy version (surprisingly does better but theres a key tech called Lashknife that lets mr protect light paws for free the turn it comes down.)
I picked up the deck on moto and gave it a run and most people just scooped in game 1 after seeing s dredge card because they dont main deck graveyard hate lmao
Your anti-graveyard hate seems focused around artifact destruction, but that doesn't really work on one-time use hate like Tormod's Crypt, Relic, and Soul-Guide Lantern. Makes me think Trickbind or Tale's End could be useful here. Lets you stop those as well as ETBs like Bojuka Bog or Endurance, and they have additional uses like stifling a cascade trigger or countering an Ugin activation (or Ugin himself for Tale's End).
Fun video even though I find dredge a tad annoying. I'm curious, is there a reason you wouldn't bring in duress game 2 against vs affinity? You mentioned wanting to stop graveyard hate would that not be a good way to do it?
A lot of artifact Gravehate is 0 or 1 mana and Affinity's on the play, so there's a high chance it's already in play before Seth gets a turn with the opponent having it hand as it happens in the game. G3 there's a much stronger argument to play it.
Good showcase of matches, some of the matchups were really funny, why did you choose to do some 2-p queues along with the league in the video? I was wondering if there were some non-games, but then again you are playing dredge so all of them are non-games :P
12:16 - Can't you just target the same stinkweed for both draw replacement effects? It was legal to do that many years ago when I used to play a deck with Stinkweed in it
No, it's not in your graveyard after the first draw to choose again for the second. Each draw happens sequentially. I don't think this was ever a possibility
Dredge doesn't target at all; When you replace drawing a card with using the Dredge effect of a card in your graveyard, the card who's replacement effect was used is put back into your hand as part of the replacement effect resolving.
@@catdreaming6004 thanks! Yeah I checked the rulings and you are correct, they specifically made rulings since I used it last many many years ago lol 🤣
I wouldnt board out any dredgers since you dont have gravetroll in modern. Game 3 against tron is proof of this. Every time you went to sideboard you over dilute the deck and you suffer for it. A classic dredge strat is actually to sometimes just not even sideboard for game 2 and wait and find out exactly what your opponent brings. I would trim on the support carts before I board out a dredger. Unlessmyou encounter a ga!e where darkblastmis garaunteed to never have a legal target (hence why I ould rather playnlife from the loam as a 3 of with 1 darkblast)
I enjoyed dredge as it was intended back in original ravnica block, with savra and shambling shells, dredging darkblast & modervine for their actual effects. But what it's become in the woder game is just an abomination. At this point any card with a dredge above 2 just needs to be banned.
I love dredge. Like is such a dumb deck full of horrible jank like creeping chill, narcomebas and the like, and yet its one of the strongest deck ever if your opponent doesnt has graveyard hate xD
It’s actually the opposite - the secret to magic is not playing modern. Wizards has made it a shit show at every turn since it’s inception from old extended.
@@doppelganger5328If it is really that determinitive and the opponent isn't deliberately wasting time, then a honorable player will let it play out. It won't take long.
I still find it so funny that dredging a bigger number was believed to be the DOWNSIDE of the card during balance testing, yet it's now the only text on the card that even matters.
I've never heard that, but it doesn't seem super likely, considering golgari grave troll (a rare) has the highest dredge cost.
@@bananalord3882it has the highest dredge cost because it has the best body by far.
A higher dredge number was intended to mean you can't rebuy the card as many times in a game (and even less if you're rebuying other dredge cards too), or you're more likely to mill other non-dredge cards you might have wanted. The idea was that you can get them back, but over the course of a game, you'd eventually deck yourself/run out of other threats.
@@bananalord3882 Well the important thing to note about troll is that it gets +1/+1 counters equal to creatures in graveyard and the ability to regenerate itself.
they probably played Ravnica block during testing which didn't have these non-dredge cards that make the deck broken.
For future reference: Leyline of sanctity would have been a ok card to bring in against Relic/Tormod's crypt because both of the cards have : "Target player exiles a card/ their graveyard" on them, meaning you would fizzle that mode (in the case of karns getting tormod's crypt they wouldn't be able to hit you with it) and it giving you hexproof means they have to deal with it before your graveyard (outside of cracking relic that is). I know it is commonly used as anti discard, but it works against certain graveyard hate effects as well
I really just sideboard in white and black leylines all the time in most of my decks
I don't think Hexproof against Relic matters much when you fill your graveyard up so quickly and the targeted mode only gets one card per turn cycle.
@@Duall8 Yeah that mixed with O stone makes me not side in leyline when I am playing dredge. Other decks like murktide or scam on the otherhand
Dredge vs Affinity made me happy. I felt like it was 2015.
And then Dredge vs Tron right after! What year is it?
Reminder : Just because it's not a typically preferred style of Magic, Dredge is still Magic.
Unpopular Opinion : Dredge is the epitome of what Magic as a system is capable of. It's a strategy that is strong, attacks at a unique angle, and also has metagame solutions that flatten it.
It says uploaded Sep 25, 2023 but playing Affinity, Tron, Mill clearly shows that this is actually from 2013
Those decks are all still viable and played commonly??
@danewirostek1903 if you ignore that in all major events, tron and affinity can't crack the top 16 and mill is just a noshow entirely
😂
Conflagrate is important to have in the deck basically always, because it changes your 12 points of non-attacking damage with Creeping Chill, into 18 points (because it's not all that hard to get 6 cards in hand dredging), which turns janky Narcomoeba beats into the crucial last points of damage to win. In any game where attacking isn't reliable, it's vital to have access to Conflagrate.
Dredge and Living End are both decks that constantly cycle in and out of being Modern’s boogie men, and as a person who loves both decks I find it hilarious
I remember a year ago ppl were making fun of Living End, then it pops back up at tier 1 like a month later 😂
Losing with either of the decks? Just wait a few months, people have short memories.
I'm suprised these deck archtypes never found a way to integrate a back up plan. A lot of decks in magic have plan B's but dredge has remained largely the same.
This and artifact decks seem to be the decks wizards actually balance properly due to major past errors. Though hoggak was recent enough.
I love dredge. The amount is times I've managed to sneak a win with a hard cast stinkweed imp is amazing😂
Stinkweed Imp is the best card in the deck
a man of good taste.
SETH! You should do a chaotic transformation deck because we can now create token creatures, artifacts, and enchantments with instants and sorceries. Please?
Hasn't that been one of the best modern decks for the past year?
@@Frostgiantbutsmall that’s Indomitable Creativity, which is also in pioneer, along with basic Transmogrify decks in pioneer. Chaotic Transformation is from Dominaria United, standard legal, and would have the best shot in that format since the cards OP referred to are all in standard right now
I love the idea! I have been experimenting with that card and it is really really hard to play no creatures and get role tokens on things. Still getting artifact enchantment is decent, and getting creature artifact is as powerful as ever
@@c.thissell8751 is it possible to attach cursed roles to your opponents creatures easily? I haven’t experimented with roles, but that’s the route I feel like I would go? You still own the token aura, but you still run into the issue of control/ creature lite decks
id love a series on classic modern decks that you normally wouldnt get a chance to see-- like, we havent seen infect in a while and it could be cool to see you try that out in the new modern format!
edit: i forgot about Fury actually
I've steadily adapted my old Gri-Shoal-Brand deck as the years have passed and banning have happened.
@@HeWhoSlayethCain That deck was so much fun to play
don't have to worry about fury any more!
Dredge recently got me into playing modern with a similar budget list so this is awesome to see! Also much love for the Amigo shirt!
The reverse flawless victory deserves much more attention IMO
Hearing bear pant the entire time is so cute and great video! Modern is by far the most diverse and fun format I can’t believe dredge still performs this well with mh and mh2 running the show
Can't even play Grave Troll because 6 is just too many cards
@@tonsofsodium6641 that’s cracked
Seth being an Amigo the Devil fan is so on brand. Can’t wait to see Amigo in a few weeks
Don't forget that you can cast Darkblast on your upkeep, dredge it on your Draw step, and then cast it again later in the turn to kill an X/2.
I've played both Modern Tron and Legacy Dredge, and historically at least, I found Tormod's Crypt to be a lot like Fog - it'll stop you for now but only for now, compared to Leyline of the Void which is much more urgent to deal with. Dealing with Crypt and Relic of Progenitus both is a lot though :)
In the last match we saw basically a monored burn deck with Sacred Foundry game 1. With nothing else to go on, I would be tempted to sideboard in Duress and Wear//Tear: the number one sideboard answer I can think of out of white would be Rest in Peace, and they still have artifact hate (Tormod's Crypt et al). Not sold on Ancient Grudge here - Wear//Tear gives you the flexibility you need to take out any graveyard removal, and if you lose game 2 you can bring in Ancient Grudge if they seem to be relying on artifact hate.
Remember when Shriekhorn was a 4-of staple in dredge? Good times.
is it not?
@@TheMCGamer2012 as far as i know it was just a an attempt to replace faithless looting but it never really panned out. Its a solid choice but turns out theres better options.
@@jakecollin5499 No, Shriekhorn was in Dredge alongside Faithless Looting because they didn't have Cathartic Reunion at that time if I recall.
that mill player was definitely having an Anakin moment yelling out "what have i done?"
Wow.
Dredge is on _Bugdet Magic_ ...
How did we get to this timeline?
I knew a guy who played Dredge in every format a few years ago, and it turns out that the cards that are incredible in Dredge are usually stone-unplayable in any other deck, especially if your build isn't running Life from the Loam, so the nonlands are surprisingly cheap.
Seth forgot that reverse flawless victory with mono red prowess (with fireblast) in legacy x)
Nice to see dregde again. Now that you are doing it, could we see a redo/update to the old manaless dregde (against the odds) deck? Im not sure, but i think that deck did get some new playthings.
It's mostly just the same exact deck except instead of flayer of the hate bound>gravetroll>flame kin zealot
You just get back thassas oracle
Exact same deck besides that
He had so many hands that could have just drawn and discarded the dredger turn 1 instead of mull. Could have gone the no land dredge route.
I realize I've been playing this deck minus the dredge for months on the arena, and it's by favorite deck of all time. Maybe I'll get into modern lol
1:01:30 imagine Seth's reaction if opponent played Mana Tithe!
Yay finally a video for a format I actually care about
This is exactly how i feel about modern atm. Thats why i built 12 bogles that's just all in on a 1 drop with auras that cant be targeted (theres a new one drop with ward 2 thats close enough to be a Bogle) and Lightpaws answer my two drop or die. Its just built around getting a broken 2 drop down and throwing a canopy cover on it and killing them. Even built a legacy version (surprisingly does better but theres a key tech called Lashknife that lets mr protect light paws for free the turn it comes down.)
List? This sounds fun!
@colecarmichael5724 which one lol I kinda talked about 3 different decks in my comment. All in bogles or all in 2 drop auras? Or the legacy build?
@@winssports4830 12 bogles!
@@winssports4830 we want the 3 versions :D
Both modern ones, plz. 😅
I loved dredge, i realize it was hated, but its just such a different way to play magic. And I am a monster.
I've been playing a Dredgeless Dredge very similar to this in Historic. It either explodes or fizzled. There's no in-between.
What decklist are you using? I'm really interested in trying it if you're willing to share
I'm at work at the moment, but when I get a chance I'll share it.
@pkspadoosh5275
Deck
4 Stitcher's Supplier (M19) 121
2 Mire Triton (THB) 105
4 Desecrated Tomb (M19) 230
4 Creeping Chill (GRN) 66
4 Corpse Churn (IKO) 81
4 Silversmote Ghoul (M21) 122
2 Ashiok, Dream Render (WAR) 228
4 Grisly Salvage (RTR) 165
2 Mountain (NEO) 300
2 Swamp (NEO) 297
2 Forest (NEO) 301
4 Woodland Cemetery (DAR) 248
4 Blooming Marsh (KLR) 280
2 Ox of Agonas (THB) 147
4 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253
2 Fabled Passage (M21) 246
2 Blood Crypt (RNA) 245
4 Prized Amalgam (SIR) 240
4 Bloodghast (IMA) 82
It's no perfect list, and some are just pet cards I want to work, like Desecrated Tomb, but it's fun enough.
I love this deck!!! ❤
31:05 the classic put a land on top, dredge it away
I picked up the deck on moto and gave it a run and most people just scooped in game 1 after seeing s dredge card because they dont main deck graveyard hate lmao
Hot take: Dredge is more actual Magic than BR-Scam
Your anti-graveyard hate seems focused around artifact destruction, but that doesn't really work on one-time use hate like Tormod's Crypt, Relic, and Soul-Guide Lantern. Makes me think Trickbind or Tale's End could be useful here. Lets you stop those as well as ETBs like Bojuka Bog or Endurance, and they have additional uses like stifling a cascade trigger or countering an Ugin activation (or Ugin himself for Tale's End).
1st play of the game and already a mistake...
YOU ALWAYS OTHERWORLDLY GAZE ON YOUR TURN because of Creeping Chill + Silversmote Ghoul
"lets cut the last merchant"
*cuts a prized amalgun
Hmm once a long time ago I had started work on an Ichorid Dredge deck, and a lot of the money cards here I already have…
With the amigo the devil shirt!!!!!!
Fun video even though I find dredge a tad annoying. I'm curious, is there a reason you wouldn't bring in duress game 2 against vs affinity? You mentioned wanting to stop graveyard hate would that not be a good way to do it?
A lot of artifact Gravehate is 0 or 1 mana and Affinity's on the play, so there's a high chance it's already in play before Seth gets a turn with the opponent having it hand as it happens in the game. G3 there's a much stronger argument to play it.
19:15 Dredge Darkblast kill Ballista maybe?
Have you tried dredge with Harth Elemental?
Good showcase of matches, some of the matchups were really funny, why did you choose to do some 2-p queues along with the league in the video? I was wondering if there were some non-games, but then again you are playing dredge so all of them are non-games :P
Is MTGO always showing animations at ~2 FPS or has Seth's computer just fallen behind?
i thought it was just me lol
Probably won't take but shrine clones?
seth as a long time dredge player you want to really avoid disrupting your combo when sideboarding....
12:16 - Can't you just target the same stinkweed for both draw replacement effects? It was legal to do that many years ago when I used to play a deck with Stinkweed in it
No, it's not in your graveyard after the first draw to choose again for the second. Each draw happens sequentially. I don't think this was ever a possibility
Dredge doesn't target at all; When you replace drawing a card with using the Dredge effect of a card in your graveyard, the card who's replacement effect was used is put back into your hand as part of the replacement effect resolving.
@@catdreaming6004 thanks! Yeah I checked the rulings and you are correct, they specifically made rulings since I used it last many many years ago lol 🤣
@@3rdtimesacharm84just curious, when did you used to play? That must’ve been a while ago.
@@RMGamer31O Back when Travis Woo played lol 😂
55:00 Bear panting
Could we see a normal list played
No chests?😢
Modern decks don't really interact with the graveyard game one. Meanwhile, standard decks have insane amounts of graveyard hate main deck.
What is he playing on?
wooo! Modern time :D
I wouldnt board out any dredgers since you dont have gravetroll in modern. Game 3 against tron is proof of this.
Every time you went to sideboard you over dilute the deck and you suffer for it. A classic dredge strat is actually to sometimes just not even sideboard for game 2 and wait and find out exactly what your opponent brings. I would trim on the support carts before I board out a dredger. Unlessmyou encounter a ga!e where darkblastmis garaunteed to never have a legal target (hence why I ould rather playnlife from the loam as a 3 of with 1 darkblast)
Dredge is definitely still playing Magic haha
Love it
Why doesn't dredge play Wonder?
This budget list has 0 islands.
I enjoyed dredge as it was intended back in original ravnica block, with savra and shambling shells, dredging darkblast & modervine for their actual effects. But what it's become in the woder game is just an abomination. At this point any card with a dredge above 2 just needs to be banned.
I love dredge. Like is such a dumb deck full of horrible jank like creeping chill, narcomebas and the like, and yet its one of the strongest deck ever if your opponent doesnt has graveyard hate xD
As Richard Garfield intended.
How did you manage to run into all these unpopular decks? affinity, burn, mill... even tron and living end aren't very popular in leagues.
It’s actually the opposite - the secret to magic is not playing modern. Wizards has made it a shit show at every turn since it’s inception from old extended.
Leyline of sanctity stops relic
*happy bear noises*
Million dollar dredge; you pay the right bribes to unban GGT the day before decklists are due
Wait Dredge is good That’s never been a thing They never banned unbanned and banned a card because of Dredge
(This is joke)
Needs moar Gaak.
*screams in horror*
I love not playing magic!!!
For real tho, these kinds of decks are so fun!
Just play bazaar Seth, this is painful to watch
Please please please play eldrazi Tron it’s really fun and good
Unban Hogaak!
It is hard to watch this format
unban grave troll wotc cowards
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
$100 is a budget?
Stop scooping at 20 health.
No point in playing if your opponent has a boardstate you can't possibly come back from, just a waste of time
@@Frostgiantbutsmall That takes a lot of assumptions. Play your best game and make them earn it.
@@stephenrowan8128what game are you referring to? If it was game 3 against tron it didn't matter that Seth was at 26 that game was over
@@doppelganger5328If it is really that determinitive and the opponent isn't deliberately wasting time, then a honorable player will let it play out. It won't take long.
@@stephenrowan8128no true Scotsman has ever conceded on magic online!