Hi Tom, the intro to this one was excellent, it really brought the charters to life, great editing👌👌 I remember the song from the Wurzels!! On searching for the meaning it came straight to German, for a type of root. The song talks about a Wurzel tree and, so I read, they may have been referring to a Mangold wurzel, a type of root!! Very well sung, you should audition for Mr WC21 and Tweedies Christmas hit .... I didn't fully understand your concern about the use of the word streat, your field investigation seems to suggest it's not Roman but could it also just be an error in the charter? Great video, well done!!
Another fantastic video, thank you. Your insight is really inspiring - and has made me look at the area around where I live in a very different way. I agree totally with regards to the routes that may or may not be Roman or Romanised. Francis Pryor has always said that there were intricate networks or roads across this island long before the Romans got here. Apart from their main roads, there must have been a myriad of local C roads (well cart tracks and drove ways) that connected isolated settlements and farmsteads with the local urban areas. I have recently discovered that there is a very important Roman villa in a nearby hamlet called Wortley in Gloucestershire, it has one of the most impressive subterranean grottos or cult rooms ever found in the UK and an incredible bath house with a “swimming pool” nearly 14m long. This is clearly a significant religious centre and yet there are no obvious “Roman” roads leading there. But there is an iron age sunken lane leading up Wotton Tors towards the lost roman settlement of The Chessalls near the modern village of Kingscote. Minor Roman roads lead to the Chessalls, but nothing like the major route ways. It wouldn’t surprise me if local settlements were responsible for maintaining their minor road networks which wouldn’t necessarily have been straightened - but would still be referred to as “streets” in the Saxon charters.
I’ve always been intrigued by your view on the English and Roman roads. Would they really be consciously thinking about whether a road was Roman or not? Isn’t it more likely they applied that term to any road that displayed significant construction, regardless of origin? Margary tells us there were bendy Roman roads. Particularly where pre-existing roads were adopted. And typically in hilly terrain.
Another great video Mr Fox. Lovely rendition of the Wurzels' Ouzel song - I remember them performing at a local barn dance, many many years ago. Shropshire & Somerset accents seem similar to me, my Dad spoke broad "ooh arr" (bit like Gerald) but with a Welsh ending/question. Anyway, makes you wonder how folk got about pre Roman roads... 🤣
Poor old Gerald, the sods are editing that to make him sound broader than he is. You never see the camera stay on his face when he is talking. Mind you, a good gag but at his expense.
I like the country boy voice you used on the blackbird song. I guess you could call it "Western Country" as opposed to our "Country Western". Confession- I absolutely love "I am a Cider Drinker". It just makes me smile. Even without the cider. And I love Worzel Gummidge. Lots of old Pagan symbolism in that show. It's definitely not the product of the Methodists.
Tom, a question: what would your gut tell you if you found a road with a few scattered houses in the middle of the countryside named High Street Green? Straight in short parts, no agger but suggestion of ditches?
Placenames are my main method so I would look into how old the name High Street Green is. You can do this (if it is England) on the English Place Name Survey: epns.nottingham.ac.uk/search Keep searching, it can be a nightmare finding stuff. EPNS is based on 1930s parishes so work out which parish it was in in the 1930s and see what it says. If it is pre-(I’m guessing) 1200 or so then you are in for a chance. Also have a look at the Victoria County History for your parish. It is mostly Knights and workhouse unions but you sometimes get a gem. If it is the south of England look it up on langscape.org.uk (ignore the archive warning) and see if there is a Saxon charter. There are one or two northern charters Good luck and let me know how you got on.
I don't know old English, but the word(s) byrige or by-rige that you refer to as a "fort" might relate to Danish By (town or settlement) and Rige (realm or area around a place). Maybe that construct came over to England via our Scandinavian visitors who settled in the north east and York side of the country? When I worked in Denmark many, many decades ago I found a lot of common words or sounds that linked through Scottish, gaelic and the northern dialects of Yorkshire, where I was brought up.
I have a Danish friend and when I visit I'm surprised to find we have words in common. She has difficulty with Welsh place names & cannot pronounce 'th' - e.g. three, she asks for 2 cakes & another one, also hard Gs like "foggy"... so I'm not surprised the Anglo-Saxons (& Jutes) had difficulty too...
Norse and Old English are cousin languages and in the Dark Ages scholars have suggested there was mutual intelligibility. Byrige is Old English but thank you for the suggestion, I didn’t know the rige word. That may be related to OE rice, related to German reich and meaning power, state.
I've never been of the opinion that streat meant the Romans built the road, although the straighter ones I've no real doubt they did ( being an unimaginative civilisation). I definitely think it's moreso the Romans 'used' the road. If it wasn't of vital importance that it was the fastest route between point A and point B then I can see them just using the old highways and byways, especially as most people in Roman Britain were just the old population anyway just paying their taxes to a different master. Not directly relevant to your geographic area but in Middle Scots (renaissance) the K or Ch was replaced by a softer qu leading to something like quassle rather than castle. Loads of examples of it local to me including a large Roman fort, which amusingly when translated to English is Fortfort. I think we had quite enough singing from WC21 without you joining in 😉
@AllotmentFox Don't start by singing. I don't think you've changed anything regarding format, although I do sometimes wonder where you are going with the point you are making as you qualify what you are about to say before you've said it. I do exactly the same. Linking to Darren's last vlog 'I go all round the Wrekin' before I come out with my reasoned opinion. Did you get the parcel ?
@ yes, thank you. I was going to thank you and use it on the last video but I forgot, I will do it on the next one. There were some gems including a partial explanation as to why brook comes out as broces in the charters when the basic word broc was available to them. Same with streames instead of stream. It took me about six hours to edit that and not once did I think anybody would not stick around to hear me serenading a bird. Shocking lack of self-awareness
@@AllotmentFox I didn't even attempt to read it. It's all double Dutch, or should that be Old Frisian to me. Glad it's useful anyway. You might be able to trace down a few other books in the series as described on the back cover.
To be honest we could be speaking Swahili and the British would make it appear devious, disreputable, ludicrous, snobbish and sexual all at once, all with a veneer of respectability you have to do a double-take on every time. I don’t think it is the language rather the filthy and calculating mood-music in our heads. Are you talking about the declination of ‘he’ (he: ‘e, him: ‘im, his: is’n) in my song? It is dialect. Or irony.
I would use the word independent rather than amateur. Your analysis is so good because it is yours and not just repetition.
Hi Tom, the intro to this one was excellent, it really brought the charters to life, great editing👌👌
I remember the song from the Wurzels!! On searching for the meaning it came straight to German, for a type of root. The song talks about a Wurzel tree and, so I read, they may have been referring to a Mangold wurzel, a type of root!! Very well sung, you should audition for Mr WC21 and Tweedies Christmas hit ....
I didn't fully understand your concern about the use of the word streat, your field investigation seems to suggest it's not Roman but could it also just be an error in the charter?
Great video, well done!!
Loved the beginning with the boundaries! Very well done video, thanks!
Very strong! Great to hear my old dad's favourite drinking song. Dad a Swindon man, though. Famous all over. Keep up the great work.
Another fantastic video, thank you. Your insight is really inspiring - and has made me look at the area around where I live in a very different way. I agree totally with regards to the routes that may or may not be Roman or Romanised. Francis Pryor has always said that there were intricate networks or roads across this island long before the Romans got here. Apart from their main roads, there must have been a myriad of local C roads (well cart tracks and drove ways) that connected isolated settlements and farmsteads with the local urban areas.
I have recently discovered that there is a very important Roman villa in a nearby hamlet called Wortley in Gloucestershire, it has one of the most impressive subterranean grottos or cult rooms ever found in the UK and an incredible bath house with a “swimming pool” nearly 14m long. This is clearly a significant religious centre and yet there are no obvious “Roman” roads leading there. But there is an iron age sunken lane leading up Wotton Tors towards the lost roman settlement of The Chessalls near the modern village of Kingscote. Minor Roman roads lead to the Chessalls, but nothing like the major route ways. It wouldn’t surprise me if local settlements were responsible for maintaining their minor road networks which wouldn’t necessarily have been straightened - but would still be referred to as “streets” in the Saxon charters.
I’ve always been intrigued by your view on the English and Roman roads. Would they really be consciously thinking about whether a road was Roman or not? Isn’t it more likely they applied that term to any road that displayed significant construction, regardless of origin?
Margary tells us there were bendy Roman roads. Particularly where pre-existing roads were adopted. And typically in hilly terrain.
It’s because the academics have told us stræt means Roman road. It is not in my interest to doubt that but what can I do?
@ if anyone can debunk them, you can!
Another great video Mr Fox. Lovely rendition of the Wurzels' Ouzel song - I remember them performing at a local barn dance, many many years ago. Shropshire & Somerset accents seem similar to me, my Dad spoke broad "ooh arr" (bit like Gerald) but with a Welsh ending/question. Anyway, makes you wonder how folk got about pre Roman roads... 🤣
Poor old Gerald, the sods are editing that to make him sound broader than he is. You never see the camera stay on his face when he is talking. Mind you, a good gag but at his expense.
really good, gonna refer to blackbirds as ouzles from now on
Thank you, Jib
I like the country boy voice you used on the blackbird song. I guess you could call it "Western Country" as opposed to our "Country Western".
Confession- I absolutely love "I am a Cider Drinker". It just makes me smile. Even without the cider. And I love Worzel Gummidge. Lots of old Pagan symbolism in that show. It's definitely not the product of the Methodists.
What country voice, I wasn’t putting on a voice?
Tom, a question: what would your gut tell you if you found a road with a few scattered houses in the middle of the countryside named High Street Green? Straight in short parts, no agger but suggestion of ditches?
Placenames are my main method so I would look into how old the name High Street Green is. You can do this (if it is England) on the English Place Name Survey: epns.nottingham.ac.uk/search
Keep searching, it can be a nightmare finding stuff. EPNS is based on 1930s parishes so work out which parish it was in in the 1930s and see what it says. If it is pre-(I’m guessing) 1200 or so then you are in for a chance. Also have a look at the Victoria County History for your parish. It is mostly Knights and workhouse unions but you sometimes get a gem.
If it is the south of England look it up on langscape.org.uk (ignore the archive warning) and see if there is a Saxon charter. There are one or two northern charters
Good luck and let me know how you got on.
I don't know old English, but the word(s) byrige or by-rige that you refer to as a "fort" might relate to Danish By (town or settlement) and Rige (realm or area around a place). Maybe that construct came over to England via our Scandinavian visitors who settled in the north east and York side of the country?
When I worked in Denmark many, many decades ago I found a lot of common words or sounds that linked through Scottish, gaelic and the northern dialects of Yorkshire, where I was brought up.
I have a Danish friend and when I visit I'm surprised to find we have words in common. She has difficulty with Welsh place names & cannot pronounce 'th' - e.g. three, she asks for 2 cakes & another one, also hard Gs like "foggy"... so I'm not surprised the Anglo-Saxons (& Jutes) had difficulty too...
Norse and Old English are cousin languages and in the Dark Ages scholars have suggested there was mutual intelligibility. Byrige is Old English but thank you for the suggestion, I didn’t know the rige word. That may be related to OE rice, related to German reich and meaning power, state.
But there is much familiarity nonetheless?
I've never been of the opinion that streat meant the Romans built the road, although the straighter ones I've no real doubt they did ( being an unimaginative civilisation). I definitely think it's moreso the Romans 'used' the road. If it wasn't of vital importance that it was the fastest route between point A and point B then I can see them just using the old highways and byways, especially as most people in Roman Britain were just the old population anyway just paying their taxes to a different master.
Not directly relevant to your geographic area but in Middle Scots (renaissance) the K or Ch was replaced by a softer qu leading to something like quassle rather than castle. Loads of examples of it local to me including a large Roman fort, which amusingly when translated to English is Fortfort.
I think we had quite enough singing from WC21 without you joining in 😉
My stats are down. For some strange reasons people are only watching for about a minute and a half and then inexplicably clicking off.
@AllotmentFox Don't start by singing.
I don't think you've changed anything regarding format, although I do sometimes wonder where you are going with the point you are making as you qualify what you are about to say before you've said it. I do exactly the same. Linking to Darren's last vlog 'I go all round the Wrekin' before I come out with my reasoned opinion.
Did you get the parcel ?
@ yes, thank you. I was going to thank you and use it on the last video but I forgot, I will do it on the next one. There were some gems including a partial explanation as to why brook comes out as broces in the charters when the basic word broc was available to them. Same with streames instead of stream. It took me about six hours to edit that and not once did I think anybody would not stick around to hear me serenading a bird. Shocking lack of self-awareness
@@AllotmentFox I didn't even attempt to read it. It's all double Dutch, or should that be Old Frisian to me. Glad it's useful anyway. You might be able to trace down a few other books in the series as described on the back cover.
Hey, what’s wrong with my singing?!
So a road from the Roman period is not always a Roman road?
Oh hell, this is not getting simpler is it?
We don’t do that in modern English…”the bandage was wound around the wound” 😂😂
yes but winding is nothing to do with wounds, they are semantically different. When I said that I was sure someone would come up with something
LOL... and still the english proclaim that they have the most nuanced language in the world.... here is the proof that they dont !
To be honest we could be speaking Swahili and the British would make it appear devious, disreputable, ludicrous, snobbish and sexual all at once, all with a veneer of respectability you have to do a double-take on every time. I don’t think it is the language rather the filthy and calculating mood-music in our heads. Are you talking about the declination of ‘he’ (he: ‘e, him: ‘im, his: is’n) in my song? It is dialect. Or irony.