If you enjoy Holdout Challenges check out the playlist with other challengers such as Scarlett, Reynor and Dark! Part 1 of Harstem's challenge is in there too :) th-cam.com/play/PLFUDU8AOevUeFDpQtPEfczemYCea_nT3j.html
aaaah. Pig talking about Harstem's killer instincts, and how he would bite children in pre-school, and right after this Harstem is contemplating which race should he has picked to kill that silver player even faster... Amazing stuff!
42:00, agree with PiG here, I think most players joined here didnt embrace the concept of HOLDOUT challenge, they actually trying to outplay/beat a pro-players doing standard stuff. I was expecting a lot of 1 base turtling into more turtling, lots of Tanks/Libs/Bunkers for Terran, lots of Spine and Queens for Zerg, and lots of Cannon/Battery for Protoss.
Dude, I love your channel! This is such a great experience for sc fans and hats off to the pros that participate! I think you may have made a few jokes along the way but I was so distracted by Heartstorm’s Flaming Lips that I didn’t catch any of them 😂
Dude I love these holdout challenges! I know they must be costly compared to the other vods you make yourself. But these always make me crack up. Thanks for doing this for us!
I started playing starcraft like 3 days ago, been researching and practicing a bunch and can confirm its hilarious that I know a lot of detail about certain things but little to nothing about others. But I understand its a proccess and I should just have fun while learning so i'm doing a bit of campeign in between.
I just found this sc2 series which is Holdout Challenge, and I am amazed how much it shows the contrast between micro of a pro-player and lower ranked players. It looks like a normal human being is trying to outpace a machine, it's great
For the last guy, scouting the build is the best. It's like playing rock paper scissors on protoss. it used to be 4 gate loses to 3gate robo loses to 3gate port loses to 4 gate. Could do forge fast expand with shield batteries and stalkers. Could cheese with dts (though he has robo). If he gets a wp and you forge fast expo, you lose though. Stalkers suck bad against immo, your best bet is chargelot 4 gate with a couple stalkers and sentry for ff. If you see 3 gates, find the robo/port. If it's a robo, cut workers, drop 4th gate, pump units and pray. Keep production up and counter attack/expo+upgrades. I haven't played since 2013 when I was in mid diamond high plat, dunno what that translates to now adays, but generally speaking, if you have more units in protoss, you win. Especially if you dont see twilight (For fear of dts). pvp is a wild and weird matchup. I started off with terran in WOL with the strange tank viking battles, that was super 1d, whereas protoss vs protoss is wildly different every game.
for the record, I say cut workers and build units because you're now in a strict defensive mode and need every single mineral you have to stand a chance. For this guy, he had a starport, so I'd be pumping oracles for the immortal and targetting down the stalkers with my own stalkers. You need to kill the stalkers, not the immortals.
Harstem said he did the best overall, and he did have the shortest max time, however Scarlett had the shortest average time (6min58s vs 7min9s for Harstem) and the shortest median time (6min44s vs 6min48s for Harstem).
That first game started out as a complete disaster for Harstem! If only that gold player didn't let those drones mine out all the minerals he would have held and be in a FANTASTIC position! Just turtle from there and Harstem would have had a horribly salty time to start his eco from there.
As a finale between the top contestants (of the pro gamers), I'd like if THEY had to go head to head in this survival mode. Say for example Reynor and Harstem had the two best times. Next they have to to the same against each other. One is the survivor, that just have to survive for as long as possible (i.e no attacking!). Then they change attacker. The one with the best time wins the finale =D
A while ago a french channel organised showmatches between Serral, Reynor, Marinelord and Clem. They made them play 1v1s, 2v2s, archons and holdouts. The defenders were only allowed to mine a single base and were to survive longer than another player (ex : Serral had to survive longer against Clem than Reynor against Marinelord). I don't know of anybody that has covered the holdout matches in english, but if you don't mind the French that's the vod : th-cam.com/video/zgwKFWdRsuA/w-d-xo.html
would floating a CC to the corner (so no reveal) and hiding depots around the map count though? Edit: ...Nevermind... I just got to 46:30. Question answered...
There will be one player that will reign supreme in this Holdout Challenge and he's Bly. Get him to play here and behold the godlike insanity and destruction!
You talking about the range of skills of Gold league players makes me wonder: Which league do you think has the greatest range of skill? Is it Gold? Maybe Platinum? I think there's a serious case to be made that it's actually Grandmaster, considering how hard the top GM players can dominate even mid GM players. Is MMR range an accurate representation of skill range? (I would argue it is not, as I don't think player skill is normally distributed).
Hey, just to address this! We had the wrong version of this video go up for yesterday, then pulled it down within the first hour, apologies if you've already seen the first match! - PiG's Editor
I'm a bit curious. Do you pay the grand garbage wizard and less talented pros to be in the holdout challenges, or is this a thing they agree to do just for fun?
Just wanted to make a comment on PiG's assessment of Gold league players based on my recent experience. It wasn't that long ago that I started doing ladder games, and had to make my way through gold league. To be clear, he is not completely wrong in what he is saying. There genuinely are people like that in gold league. However I think he would be surprised by the amount of people that are actually a lot better than he thinks. Not to say they are super good or anything, but when I would compare the types of gold league players he would face in his B2GM series to my experience going through the rank it was honestly no where near the same. Maybe it's just MMR doing what it was supposed to do, but I would consistently go against players that were better than some of the Plat level players that he was facing in the same series. I was even using his builds from the plat section of his documentation because I started needing a different build for each matchup. All I'm really trying to say is that I think people are just getting overall better at the game, and gold league isn't quite the same as it was back then. Either that or I was playing against smurfs almost every game, but I find this to be highly unlikely.
pls stop. You cannot compare those videos to your own experience. Pro players actually make other people look stupid, because they play way faster, better and are more experienced. It's not like "you get better -> you get more spectacular". It's the type of a scenario where "you face better player -> you look more stupid". It's basically called "coping". All players play the same. For example, I'm washed up player that recently went back to sc2, and I currenttly play weird builds on ladder with all races. Each time I go 14 pool with a proxy hatch all gold and plat players mentally break and play like a silver. And I face 3k mmr people. It's not that deep.
Gold, plat, and diamond all have variance in skill from player to player. I believe its because some people grind 1 timing attack(maybe even a cheesy build) and get very high rank but their overall game skill/knowledge is low. Other players might watch pro games, have decent micro, but have sloppy builds and fall behind from that. These 2 basic paths can give you gold players that feel like diamond and vice versa
@@plunderersparadise Guess I was just playing against smurfs and people who play a lot of unranked then. I'm not stupid, I don't compare how they did against PiG to how they did against me. He looks at the replay after every game, so I could literally compare build for build and all their behaviors/timings without looking at what PiG was doing. The people I played against were definitely slightly better on average. I'm not saying I was playing a bunch of diamond players or anything. All I'm saying is that I just had to take that next step in the learning process what seemed to be earlier than would have been necessary a year or 2 ago. I just think the bar is slightly higher than it used to be, so to speak. And there's no need to be so abrasive about it. It's not that deep.
@@boardwalk2003 Yeah that definitely makes sense. I guess I was just getting the upper end of gold players, as it didn't take me too terribly long to move onto plat. I'm sure there were some smurfs sprinkled in there, but I highly doubt I actually won against any of them. xD
I completely skipped gold league by just getting a bunch of wins with proxy 2 racks marines lmao, you can definitely say i have no good understanding of the game
amatuer, next time you are in sweden go buy a couple of packs of djungelvrål and get on the hype train viking style or maybe force maxpax to some offline event and make him bring some. djungelvrål is the best candy ever. edit. you have to try your first live on stream
They're generally advertised on Patreon, discord, twitch etc in the lead up to the event. Players are chosen at random but they have to be in game during the recording of it live
I'm nothing. Not even silver😂😂😂 I know I could last longer.. Why does no one turtle up turrets tanks! Nothing else! Why do players always try and get fancy.. My only issue would be my 3 apm
If you enjoy Holdout Challenges check out the playlist with other challengers such as Scarlett, Reynor and Dark! Part 1 of Harstem's challenge is in there too :) th-cam.com/play/PLFUDU8AOevUeFDpQtPEfczemYCea_nT3j.html
aaaah. Pig talking about Harstem's killer instincts, and how he would bite children in pre-school, and right after this Harstem is contemplating which race should he has picked to kill that silver player even faster... Amazing stuff!
42:00, agree with PiG here, I think most players joined here didnt embrace the concept of HOLDOUT challenge, they actually trying to outplay/beat a pro-players doing standard stuff. I was expecting a lot of 1 base turtling into more turtling, lots of Tanks/Libs/Bunkers for Terran, lots of Spine and Queens for Zerg, and lots of Cannon/Battery for Protoss.
Dude, I love your channel! This is such a great experience for sc fans and hats off to the pros that participate! I think you may have made a few jokes along the way but I was so distracted by Heartstorm’s Flaming Lips that I didn’t catch any of them 😂
Dude I love these holdout challenges! I know they must be costly compared to the other vods you make yourself. But these always make me crack up. Thanks for doing this for us!
I started playing starcraft like 3 days ago, been researching and practicing a bunch and can confirm its hilarious that I know a lot of detail about certain things but little to nothing about others.
But I understand its a proccess and I should just have fun while learning so i'm doing a bit of campeign in between.
I just found this sc2 series which is Holdout Challenge, and I am amazed how much it shows the contrast between micro of a pro-player and lower ranked players. It looks like a normal human being is trying to outpace a machine, it's great
this was incredible to watch but maaan... Harstem doesn't look like he's having any fun. He's just like "let's kill this noob and get it over with"
My brother in God, that's just Harstem's neutral face lmao
on match history having tons of wins - I had a similar experience a couple of years back as i was busy in real life with a new kid so was playing
For the last guy, scouting the build is the best. It's like playing rock paper scissors on protoss. it used to be 4 gate loses to 3gate robo loses to 3gate port loses to 4 gate. Could do forge fast expand with shield batteries and stalkers. Could cheese with dts (though he has robo). If he gets a wp and you forge fast expo, you lose though. Stalkers suck bad against immo, your best bet is chargelot 4 gate with a couple stalkers and sentry for ff. If you see 3 gates, find the robo/port. If it's a robo, cut workers, drop 4th gate, pump units and pray. Keep production up and counter attack/expo+upgrades. I haven't played since 2013 when I was in mid diamond high plat, dunno what that translates to now adays, but generally speaking, if you have more units in protoss, you win. Especially if you dont see twilight (For fear of dts). pvp is a wild and weird matchup. I started off with terran in WOL with the strange tank viking battles, that was super 1d, whereas protoss vs protoss is wildly different every game.
for the record, I say cut workers and build units because you're now in a strict defensive mode and need every single mineral you have to stand a chance. For this guy, he had a starport, so I'd be pumping oracles for the immortal and targetting down the stalkers with my own stalkers. You need to kill the stalkers, not the immortals.
Harstem said he did the best overall, and he did have the shortest max time, however Scarlett had the shortest average time (6min58s vs 7min9s for Harstem) and the shortest median time (6min44s vs 6min48s for Harstem).
It's only negative micro if he lost that game to Harstem. If he won, the move was purely a flex implying he never needed the minerals 😎
Anyone else check how much time was left when Pig said he was going to anoint Harstem if he got it under 8:30?
That first game started out as a complete disaster for Harstem!
If only that gold player didn't let those drones mine out all the minerals he would have held and be in a FANTASTIC position! Just turtle from there and Harstem would have had a horribly salty time to start his eco from there.
As a finale between the top contestants (of the pro gamers), I'd like if THEY had to go head to head in this survival mode.
Say for example Reynor and Harstem had the two best times. Next they have to to the same against each other.
One is the survivor, that just have to survive for as long as possible (i.e no attacking!). Then they change attacker.
The one with the best time wins the finale =D
they are to good at defending after 2 hours harstem would run out of money and have to give up lol
A while ago a french channel organised showmatches between Serral, Reynor, Marinelord and Clem. They made them play 1v1s, 2v2s, archons and holdouts. The defenders were only allowed to mine a single base and were to survive longer than another player (ex : Serral had to survive longer against Clem than Reynor against Marinelord).
I don't know of anybody that has covered the holdout matches in english, but if you don't mind the French that's the vod : th-cam.com/video/zgwKFWdRsuA/w-d-xo.html
@@bullpup1337Haha :D
would floating a CC to the corner (so no reveal) and hiding depots around the map count though?
Edit: ...Nevermind... I just got to 46:30. Question answered...
There will be one player that will reign supreme in this Holdout Challenge and he's Bly.
Get him to play here and behold the godlike insanity and destruction!
"I'm a huge campaign fan, but I haven't completed it." haha
6:29 Did I do this in my sleep? This sounds like me lol.
Nami sounds familiar. Was he on IODIS or Florencio files or something?
why the immediate strike with hellions? has this setup proven to be effective ?
You talking about the range of skills of Gold league players makes me wonder:
Which league do you think has the greatest range of skill?
Is it Gold? Maybe Platinum? I think there's a serious case to be made that it's actually Grandmaster, considering how hard the top GM players can dominate even mid GM players. Is MMR range an accurate representation of skill range? (I would argue it is not, as I don't think player skill is normally distributed).
If Harry Potter was written today, I don't think Harry would be turning grand-wizardship down... Assuming J.K. is still writing it.
Do you mean she supports w supremacy?
It would be such a troll for the progamer if you got like an actual pro to smurf vs the progamer
Haven't you already uploaded this? I feel like I've seen at least the first game before
I wish he would give us some kind of explanation or something in the description.
Hey, just to address this! We had the wrong version of this video go up for yesterday, then pulled it down within the first hour, apologies if you've already seen the first match! - PiG's Editor
gogo cowboy, pewpew like a BAMTrucker!
PiG, what if the noob is set up on gold minerals/unlimited?
oooh good idea, see how well a noob can do on an unlimited resource map could be interesting
Harstem is officially the Grand Garbage Wizard!
I'm a bit curious. Do you pay the grand garbage wizard and less talented pros to be in the holdout challenges, or is this a thing they agree to do just for fun?
Just wanted to make a comment on PiG's assessment of Gold league players based on my recent experience. It wasn't that long ago that I started doing ladder games, and had to make my way through gold league. To be clear, he is not completely wrong in what he is saying. There genuinely are people like that in gold league. However I think he would be surprised by the amount of people that are actually a lot better than he thinks. Not to say they are super good or anything, but when I would compare the types of gold league players he would face in his B2GM series to my experience going through the rank it was honestly no where near the same. Maybe it's just MMR doing what it was supposed to do, but I would consistently go against players that were better than some of the Plat level players that he was facing in the same series. I was even using his builds from the plat section of his documentation because I started needing a different build for each matchup. All I'm really trying to say is that I think people are just getting overall better at the game, and gold league isn't quite the same as it was back then. Either that or I was playing against smurfs almost every game, but I find this to be highly unlikely.
pls stop. You cannot compare those videos to your own experience. Pro players actually make other people look stupid, because they play way faster, better and are more experienced. It's not like "you get better -> you get more spectacular". It's the type of a scenario where "you face better player -> you look more stupid". It's basically called "coping". All players play the same.
For example, I'm washed up player that recently went back to sc2, and I currenttly play weird builds on ladder with all races. Each time I go 14 pool with a proxy hatch all gold and plat players mentally break and play like a silver. And I face 3k mmr people. It's not that deep.
Gold, plat, and diamond all have variance in skill from player to player. I believe its because some people grind 1 timing attack(maybe even a cheesy build) and get very high rank but their overall game skill/knowledge is low. Other players might watch pro games, have decent micro, but have sloppy builds and fall behind from that.
These 2 basic paths can give you gold players that feel like diamond and vice versa
@@plunderersparadise Guess I was just playing against smurfs and people who play a lot of unranked then.
I'm not stupid, I don't compare how they did against PiG to how they did against me. He looks at the replay after every game, so I could literally compare build for build and all their behaviors/timings without looking at what PiG was doing. The people I played against were definitely slightly better on average. I'm not saying I was playing a bunch of diamond players or anything. All I'm saying is that I just had to take that next step in the learning process what seemed to be earlier than would have been necessary a year or 2 ago. I just think the bar is slightly higher than it used to be, so to speak. And there's no need to be so abrasive about it. It's not that deep.
@@boardwalk2003 Yeah that definitely makes sense. I guess I was just getting the upper end of gold players, as it didn't take me too terribly long to move onto plat. I'm sure there were some smurfs sprinkled in there, but I highly doubt I actually won against any of them. xD
I miss this map always looks like a old man .......like one of the kings in cards.
Where is part 1
here's the playlist th-cam.com/play/PLFUDU8AOevUeFDpQtPEfczemYCea_nT3j.html
didnt we just see the nami harstem match yesterday
Quite a fun game
I completely skipped gold league by just getting a bunch of wins with proxy 2 racks marines lmao, you can definitely say i have no good understanding of the game
oh you are one if those guys…. smh disappointed
amatuer, next time you are in sweden go buy a couple of packs of djungelvrål and get on the hype train viking style or maybe force maxpax to some offline event and make him bring some.
djungelvrål is the best candy ever.
edit.
you have to try your first live on stream
I'm so gutted I forgot to try it last time I was there. Will definitely bring some back to try on stream next time!
@@PiGstarcraft shame, shame =)
How can I put my name down for these challenges? They look fun!
I'm protoss.
They're generally advertised on Patreon, discord, twitch etc in the lead up to the event. Players are chosen at random but they have to be in game during the recording of it live
EAT MY ENTIRE VIEW AND COMMENT UTOOB SPIRITS!
Backdoor adventures :D
How do you say Harsem terran is D1??? No he GM 5200-5500MMR
It's called "trash talking". He just made a joke (as he also said a few seconds later :) )
Funny, I have only played 1 match in PvP ever (I won). I think I would have done better than half of those guys with my 40 APM
Game 2 is fake diamond. More like low gold.
crazy harstem did better than raynor
I'm nothing. Not even silver😂😂😂 I know I could last longer.. Why does no one turtle up turrets tanks! Nothing else! Why do players always try and get fancy.. My only issue would be my 3 apm
I bet Nami keeps leaving his league
Is HARSTEM High AF or is it just me?...
First
second
@@haoyang4801third
I am diamond and I guarantee I could set a new record. Or I'll donate $