No apologies for the clickbait. I had to be clear that this is somehow EVEN BETTER than the match these two played at the world cup. The final game raises the bar so high that I debated splitting it into it's own video, but that would cheapen the 90 minutes of insane 1000+ APM games leading into the final battle.
No worries! Your casts are always first class entertaining! Vis-a-vis the player names, i m almost sure you are aware that there is a song called "Fear of the Dark" by the Band Iron Maiden. I wanted to mention it, just in case - since it fits so well with the shrine to dark and all that. :D
I've said it before, but I love your reliability, Winter! Each day, I open TH-cam, hoping to find a new cast, and it's always there. You're like that one friend who always answers when you call. Cheers!
As an old man with a now thermodynamically efficient brain who has loved playing zergling muta since the first seasons of SC1, that first game was immensely satisfying
SC2 Marine, Mine, Medic should normally wreck the hell out of Muta/ling. Sorry. Even the highly nerfed widow mines can one-shot an entire page of Zerglings or even one-shot one mutalisk and severely damage the rest of the entire flock of mutas if they clump too much. Mutalisks are AWFUL in SC1. Their average DPS is about 1/3rd of a marine which costs 4 times less than the mutalisk in total, and Marine/medic flat out destroys Muta/ling so badly that there is never a reason to make Mutalisks vs Terran in SC1 vanilla nor broodwar. Instead, the Zerg should go ling/lurker/queen/defiler to win. I used to be a Code S Broodwar player as every race, so I know what I'm talking about. Zerg players who don't use Queens in Broodwar or SC1 Vanilla are IDIOTS.
The only way you will EVER beat a real Code S Terran in Broodwar as Zerg is if you make at least 1 Queen per Tank or Goliath your opponent makes. If you don't make at least 2 Queens, it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to stop the fastest two tank push when supported by marines and medics....it will run right over your ling/muta army and contain you to 2 bases and then you're stuck as a 2 base Zerg vs a 3 or 4 base Terran and you just auto-lose the game. I know, because I used to play wth "4You" who was one of the best Korean pros to ever play the game,a nd without 2 Queens you CANNOT stop his 2 tanks push....not even close to stop it. I tried everything for a month before I realized Queens was the ONLY way to stop a 2 tanks push Terran in BW. Mutalisks are even worse against Protoss, because X number of Corsairs beats about twice it's value in Mutalisks, since they splash up to 8 targets per shot. Mutalisks are not even good against another Zerg, because if you stack your mutas to "circle strafe micro" you will get hit by a Queen Ensnare or defiler Plague and lose your entire air army. That's why most Code S go hydralisk in all 3 ZvsX matchups in SC1 and Broodwar. Hydralisk and Lurker are two of the most cost-effective units in Broodwar, especially the lurkers when supported by Defilers and Queens.
@@comradesillyotter1537 Bomber doesn't play anymore. He quit because he got bored with winning. ProTech doesn't play 1vs1 anymore. He quit 1vs1 because it is quote, "Too easy to beat GMs at 1vs1."
Yes please. Seconded. And throwing out the request for a Winter compilation of Winter-isms. I'd watch an hour and a half of just snippets of Winter telling stories. And talking about player names. 11/10, favourite commentator ever.
Even though Winter has used a title like this a number of times before, somehow I trust that this isn't clickbait. Pretty sure I won't be disappointed.
The matches are usually pretty good regardless. Doesn't matter if the vid title is super hyped or simply "[Player Name] vs. [Player Name]" I'm gonna watch either way.
1:48:20 - this war fought by ghosts and infestors, the next by marines and queens, great job mate, I was also here when you flubbed that same joke a couple months ago and it just makes a fan proud to see you nail it on this, the most epic of games.
Feels like both ghosts and widow mines need to cost 1 more supply each. Clem literally has 20+ mines scattered around the map, a 10ghost hit team, 15medivacs and random tanks around and a good 60scvs but he can still field a massive marine marauder army. Something doesn't add up with Terran supply numbers.
They get to cut workers and still outmine their opponents with fewer bases in the late too. It's surprising terran hasn't been crushing it harder for longer honestly.
yup, roach and ghost, same supply. mules no supply. ghost shouldnt be able to snipe every unit and instakill every non-armored, also none biologicals, only 40dmg to armored units. snipe huge cooldown but no energy need. ghost=light unit, and cost 100m-150g, as the infestor and have only 80hp.
game 3, Clem loses half of his scvs (29!) pre-8 minutes. just fucking shrugs it off and wins anyway. no Z can lose 29 drones so early and come back. also, the widow mine abuse is insane. it costs so, so much more APM to avoid mines than to use them. they allow T to have amazing trades while macroing or looking elsewhere, while heavily punishing opponents for macroing or looking elsewhere. it legitimately makes me question whether balancing around winrates is at all balanced. i cannot believe that winning as T takes as much skill as with P or Z. the disproportionate amount of T participants and TvT matches we get in every big tournament makes me wonder even more.
@@kathorseesI just lost a PvT ladder game on where i killed all Terran SCV by the 4:08 mark, he just drops 4 miles and acted like he didn't lose any workers... Shows up like a minute later with 25 supply of stimmed bio and rolls over my gateway units.
god damn this was amazing, it's crazy how good they both are, I keep having no idea how either is still alive every minute of these games, especially the last one
I love Winters Commentary: "He needs to keep it in the back of his mind... maybe even at the front of his mind... idk how it works" "How many times do we have to teach you this lesson... YOUNG man" "the Mutas have gone extinct!" man im wheezing i cannot
Great series! Love it when there really isn't one person with a major lead because both players have been trading punches non stop while trying to sneak a dagger in each other's sides at the same time.
OMG when clem won the last finals, i commented that his air superiority was key to his play, and the zerg needs (upgraded) mutas to take down the medivacs continuously. I just watched the G1, and i see Raynor bringing my idea to live. im extatic. SO MANY epic moves in this first game ! the baneling traps ! the grand strategy (see how he used the mutas so Clem had to retreat to his base) , and even a Serral-festor ! i will make a bookmark in my browser bar just so i can watch this again and again. quite like the finals of soccer world cup 98
actions all over the map, yet somehow i think winter still did a great job focusing on all the right places. In game 1, when clem first got hit at 22:27 with the bane mines and winter said it was a barn-door locking-situation, because it seemed instantaneously reactive and almost mindless, like it was overly-safe and borderline useless, like he "wasted" a scan. That made it hilarious to see the split hits at 25:57 - 26:10, because raynor predicted that clem would ADAPT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME to avoid that "wasted" post-hit scan because of the earlier one, only this time it wouldn't have been wasted, and the second hit landed. These guys are operating on a mental speed that's just on another level
This matchup is just so, so broken. In game 1 the fact that it took 27 minutes for Clem to finally not have a way back in illustrates it perfectly. That was one of the most thorough trouncings I've ever seen in SC2, and Terran gets to just keep going, waiting for a single mistake from Zerg to win the game for no reason.
It is true. Mules make it way too easy for Terran to stay in the game, even with much less bases and also castrate the real impact of harassment in later stages of the game.
Me and a friend always joke that matches vs Terrans are "The terran lost only 30 scvs, this might not be sufficient damage" "The Terran killed 4 drones/probes, we're now just watching a slow death animation"
Agreed 100%, zerg has to take huge risks and throw away hundreds of supply for low potential reward while terran has the privilege to throw low risk low supply high reward drops everywhere, because the intended counter to drops (mutas) is just too expensive in both gas and APM. Units are supposed to have weaknesses. Most of terran's units are balanced and fun because they have weaknesses. Siege tank has a great design. Its inability to move when deployed is a legit weakness that can reasonably be exploited and countered. Tanks are potentially game-endingly powerful if the terran can find and set up a great defensive position, but it's not unwinnable. Makes for great games. The marine's weakness is supposed to be that it's slow and relatively immobile. Medivacs make marines among the most mobile unit in the game, more mobile than zerglings in fact because zerglings don't fly. Imagine if zerg had a unit that synergized with its basic infantry so well that it completely removed the zergling's intended weakness (its low hp). Imagine cracklings with all their speed and dps but that are also infuriatingly hard to kill and you'll understand why I think medivacs are bullshit. Supported by medivacs, marines just do not have any weaknesses. They deal insane, game-ending damage, they're hard to kill, they're fast, and they fly. Insane that people can watch a terran drop a zerg to death and think it's "a good game" and not just a kid being bullied for 20 minutes with no recourse. It's not exciting, it's just frustrating and sad. AND GHOSTS. Ghosts are the most overpowered unit in the game, period. No spellcaster should scale that well with numbers. You shouldn't be able to make 30 of your late game spellcaster and win. If half your army supply is in spellcasters, your army should be *less* powerful, not more. Remember when Infestors scaled really well because of infested terran spam? Yeah, they NERFED it, for good reason.
@@davehollis5816 This is dead-on. Z and P are actually fairly impressively balanced, I think with the exception of Disruptors needing a rework to make them more consistent. On the other hand, the entire current design of Terran is a joke. To the point of them being overwhelmingly the most successful and powerful option at every level of play (outside of the top 0.0001% being split between zerg and terran.) Marine-Medivac, Mules/Scans, Widow Mines, and Ghosts are each totally independently, game-breakingly overpowered.... But we're just used to it...? Like, nobody looks at the ladder winrates at ANY tier? OR watches the games?
@@vox5505 I do also think Mules, scans, and widow mines are potentially a bit overtuned. But to me they're not as bad as the things I whined about already. It *is* kind of nuts that a terran can lose half his workers and survive. But it's not like mules are totally free. The mule/scan tradeoff is meaningful I think, and there *is* counterplay there. Scans aren't *as* troublesome IMO until the very late game when you can afford to have 9-12 orbitals, when it starts really feeling like map hacks. But that does cost a lot of money, so it's hard for me to call it IMBA and feel like I'm being honest. Widow Mines are definitely too cheap for what they can do. But I don't think they're THAT broken. Again, there is counterplay. The reason I call out medivacs in particular is that there IS no counterplay to mass multidrops. You drop 8 or 16 marines, you can either win the game outright or do *some* damage and escape for free. You risk nothing, it takes very little micro compared to what the zerg has to do to defend, and you are guaranteed to do some damage, if not just win. As soon as the ling swarm finally approaches, you just instantly slurp back up into space and zoom away, consequence free. There's nothing the zerg can do about this. It's either lose because the damage from mass drops unavoidably stacks up and puts you behind, or you lose because you sunk thousands of gas into a unit that can't fight, and your army is now too weak to handle pushes. It's got to be the most frustrating and unfair interaction imaginable for the zerg, but we're all supposed to think of it as "exciting" and "high octane" because balance discussion is so brutally stigmatized. Thanks for the reply btw.
i grew up on SC broodwar, used to watch replays all the time, when husky stoped i kinda stopped too. looks like i found my fav sc2 caster. keep up the good work, its great to see the game and how competive it is now.
game 3 is just infuriating to watch. T loses 29 SCVs at 5:50! 29!! it's literally half of what he had! and T is still in the game, and has OK chances. T is the easy-mode race, by far the most forgiving and with the best tools. no Z or P can survive losing 29 workers so early. it's bonkers that this is considered "balanced".
Mules and medivacs are broken. Put a cap on the number of simultaneous mules and should medivacs really instantly pick up units? There is literally no counter for Zerg except an expensive paper mache bat creature and 800+ of APM. And it will still take some luck..
It feels like every week you post "the best match I've ever seen", and yet you never lie lol! SC2 is still the greatest game to watch for me. No game could possibly come close to a good TvZ in SC2.
man! I gotta say I love to see winter changing his voice and making up crazy fun dialogues as Susan ou Brenda (queens) talking to their imaginary counterparts! its max level entertainment
Yes. And then there was 1:42:54 "How many ghosts are left? Just one! And that's not enough. He wants to cancel that harder than Blizzard would.", which also may have gone unnoticed by some, though this is not one for the history buffs :)
I loved the baneling callback in the first game. Eats a bane hit and immediately scans after: "oh what a fool to look for them after they went off!" so he remembers not to scan on a bane hit: "oh what a fool he didn't check for more!"
I have played SC2 off and on since its release. In the last few years it has been Winter that drags me back in. Just want to say Thank You for reminding me how bad I am at a game I love so much :)
As an SC 1 player I've never understood how sc2 players build 1 anti air turret and say "yep, this is enough". And equally how no opponents realize this
Thanks for the commentary as always, Winter. The 2 players with the most APM in the galaxy is exhausting to cast let alone play. It's like they both have stim cells in their veins.
Oh reynor is a player at my own heart with those games… a massive Muta/ling/bane composition straight out of SC1 with some bane support and a sealing ultra play is peak Zerg gameplay for me it’s my favorite style to play, then a sneaky all in ling/queen drop that caught Clem completely off guard for game 2 was icing on the cake… reynor is playing exactly how I got into StarCraft all those years ago and fell in love with the Zerg it’s such beautiful masterwork gameplay well played games
top favorite winter moments; 1) when brenda/susan/margret ect psionically channel their thoughts into winter and he "blacks out" showing us what they are saying. 2) when he calls YOUR mom (not my mom) Massive. 3) when he yells at Jimmy for anything. 4) when he tells us to like and sub and we might get another cast (even though he will probably do it anyway) 5) When the game gets crazy and he gets louder and talks faster haha 6) when he reminds those of us who got the game when it came out (on CD mind you) that we are post youth every time the map comes up. 7) FUISIOOOOOONNNNNN COOOOOORREE (although it's probably for liberator range most times.) Sometimes applies to fleet beacon. Should start doing it for greater spire because as we all know, winter is 1/3 zerg himself.
Hey man, I grew up playing WC then WC2, then SC.... by the time SC2 came out I had moved on. But after falling upon your videos, the commentary makes it worth watching. I enjoy watching SC2 games now, but only if you're commentating!
First time commenting... winter I personally think ur the most entertaining SC channel. Plz plz keep this up brother this is gold. Ur great at wut u do.
The reaction on the tumour transfusion haha ^^ That was quite entertaining to watch ! thank you PS : it cannot be the "best" SC2 game without Protoss though.
No apologies for the clickbait. I had to be clear that this is somehow EVEN BETTER than the match these two played at the world cup. The final game raises the bar so high that I debated splitting it into it's own video, but that would cheapen the 90 minutes of insane 1000+ APM games leading into the final battle.
No worries! Your casts are always first class entertaining!
Vis-a-vis the player names, i m almost sure you are aware that there is a song called "Fear of the Dark" by the Band Iron Maiden. I wanted to mention it, just in case - since it fits so well with the shrine to dark and all that. :D
Stop the cap😂
I'm so excited 🤤
so who won this series after all?
Spot on. Best games in a while!
You treated this game as it deserved: like it was the last game you’d ever cast.
Thank you for everything over the years.
you say it so ominously, like somethings about to happen to winter lmao
@mr_mam did he crack a joke about the Clintons!?!?!?!
You are not authorized to see the content in my games
I've said it before, but I love your reliability, Winter! Each day, I open TH-cam, hoping to find a new cast, and it's always there. You're like that one friend who always answers when you call. Cheers!
Best comment I have ever read (by far)
Only SC2 can you have a BEST GAME OF ALL TIME every two weeks and have it not be clickbait
As an old man with a now thermodynamically efficient brain who has loved playing zergling muta since the first seasons of SC1, that first game was immensely satisfying
especially that double bane mine as finishing blow. not that it would matter as he was winning hard already.
SC2 Marine, Mine, Medic should normally wreck the hell out of Muta/ling. Sorry. Even the highly nerfed widow mines can one-shot an entire page of Zerglings or even one-shot one mutalisk and severely damage the rest of the entire flock of mutas if they clump too much.
Mutalisks are AWFUL in SC1. Their average DPS is about 1/3rd of a marine which costs 4 times less than the mutalisk in total, and Marine/medic flat out destroys Muta/ling so badly that there is never a reason to make Mutalisks vs Terran in SC1 vanilla nor broodwar. Instead, the Zerg should go ling/lurker/queen/defiler to win.
I used to be a Code S Broodwar player as every race, so I know what I'm talking about. Zerg players who don't use Queens in Broodwar or SC1 Vanilla are IDIOTS.
@@WadeSmith-oe5xd my man the strat won
The only way you will EVER beat a real Code S Terran in Broodwar as Zerg is if you make at least 1 Queen per Tank or Goliath your opponent makes. If you don't make at least 2 Queens, it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to stop the fastest two tank push when supported by marines and medics....it will run right over your ling/muta army and contain you to 2 bases and then you're stuck as a 2 base Zerg vs a 3 or 4 base Terran and you just auto-lose the game. I know, because I used to play wth "4You" who was one of the best Korean pros to ever play the game,a nd without 2 Queens you CANNOT stop his 2 tanks push....not even close to stop it. I tried everything for a month before I realized Queens was the ONLY way to stop a 2 tanks push Terran in BW.
Mutalisks are even worse against Protoss, because X number of Corsairs beats about twice it's value in Mutalisks, since they splash up to 8 targets per shot.
Mutalisks are not even good against another Zerg, because if you stack your mutas to "circle strafe micro" you will get hit by a Queen Ensnare or defiler Plague and lose your entire air army. That's why most Code S go hydralisk in all 3 ZvsX matchups in SC1 and Broodwar. Hydralisk and Lurker are two of the most cost-effective units in Broodwar, especially the lurkers when supported by Defilers and Queens.
@@comradesillyotter1537 Bomber doesn't play anymore. He quit because he got bored with winning.
ProTech doesn't play 1vs1 anymore. He quit 1vs1 because it is quote, "Too easy to beat GMs at 1vs1."
petition to have winter compile a soundboard full of audio clips like "2-2 is starting" and cast an entire match using solely the soundboard
Yes please. Seconded. And throwing out the request for a Winter compilation of Winter-isms. I'd watch an hour and a half of just snippets of Winter telling stories. And talking about player names. 11/10, favourite commentator ever.
Dumb idea.
Must include Sharon and Susan or we riot!
@@Stardash81 Hahahahaha excellent contribution
Yes, but... at what cost?
Even though Winter has used a title like this a number of times before, somehow I trust that this isn't clickbait.
Pretty sure I won't be disappointed.
Lost count the number of times I've been baited in.... But you get to the end and you're like.... you know what... that wasn't bait.
@@tomtech1537 Exactly. :)
Baited or not "(So far)"
The matches are usually pretty good regardless. Doesn't matter if the vid title is super hyped or simply "[Player Name] vs. [Player Name]" I'm gonna watch either way.
@@vigorouslethargy Same. Well said. But it is still fun to discuss silly clickbait-vs-non-clickbait titles.
1:48:20 - this war fought by ghosts and infestors, the next by marines and queens, great job mate, I was also here when you flubbed that same joke a couple months ago and it just makes a fan proud to see you nail it on this, the most epic of games.
All I need is 800 apm and I can counter medivac drops with mutas.
pretty sure that first game was the best game of SC2 i've seen . . . .and there are 5 more?
Exactly my thoughts lol
same !
Just got finished with Game 1. I need to take a breather before game 2-5
This is a game of Star Craft 2.
Clem and Reynor are actually just a few months apart in age. April 2002 and July 2002.
Damn, that makes me feel weird. I started playing StarCraft seriously before either of them were alive...
the moment the evacs took all bio in the exact timining when 7 window mines hits everything underneath made it greatest moment so fat in sc2 for me
Didn’t see that. Timestamp?
1:51:05
I'm too far in to care what's click bait at this point. LET'S FUCKING GO!!
WHOOH WINTER🎉
Feels like both ghosts and widow mines need to cost 1 more supply each. Clem literally has 20+ mines scattered around the map, a 10ghost hit team, 15medivacs and random tanks around and a good 60scvs but he can still field a massive marine marauder army. Something doesn't add up with Terran supply numbers.
They get to cut workers and still outmine their opponents with fewer bases in the late too. It's surprising terran hasn't been crushing it harder for longer honestly.
yup, roach and ghost, same supply. mules no supply.
ghost shouldnt be able to snipe every unit and instakill every non-armored, also none biologicals, only 40dmg to armored units.
snipe huge cooldown but no energy need. ghost=light unit, and cost 100m-150g, as the infestor and have only 80hp.
game 3, Clem loses half of his scvs (29!) pre-8 minutes. just fucking shrugs it off and wins anyway. no Z can lose 29 drones so early and come back. also, the widow mine abuse is insane. it costs so, so much more APM to avoid mines than to use them. they allow T to have amazing trades while macroing or looking elsewhere, while heavily punishing opponents for macroing or looking elsewhere.
it legitimately makes me question whether balancing around winrates is at all balanced. i cannot believe that winning as T takes as much skill as with P or Z. the disproportionate amount of T participants and TvT matches we get in every big tournament makes me wonder even more.
And you only need 60 scvs to match 90 drones since mules exist. Terran is definitely some bullshit.
@@kathorseesI just lost a PvT ladder game on where i killed all Terran SCV by the 4:08 mark, he just drops 4 miles and acted like he didn't lose any workers... Shows up like a minute later with 25 supply of stimmed bio and rolls over my gateway units.
The muta gameplay was beautiful
No clickbait just masters of their craft ( clem , reynor and u of course) Thanks for the devotion ! my day became a little bit better
god damn this was amazing, it's crazy how good they both are, I keep having no idea how either is still alive every minute of these games, especially the last one
I love Winters Commentary:
"He needs to keep it in the back of his mind... maybe even at the front of his mind... idk how it works"
"How many times do we have to teach you this lesson... YOUNG man"
"the Mutas have gone extinct!"
man im wheezing i cannot
Great series! Love it when there really isn't one person with a major lead because both players have been trading punches non stop while trying to sneak a dagger in each other's sides at the same time.
Will never get tired of watch the most professional sc2 games
Terran, the only race that can half the workers for 10 minutes.
only race that can lose 20+ workers and bounce back like nothing happened...
Thanks
1:29:38 you are bringing something unique winter ! Thank you for the awesome cast as always
Amazing games! S-class commentary. I wish I could like and subscribe several times.
Clem chasing the Mutas around his base as they ravage his bases and mineral lines triggers my ladder PTSD
Amazing!!! The best of the best! ❤️ Thx! Very well done again Winter!
OMG when clem won the last finals, i commented that his air superiority was key to his play, and the zerg needs (upgraded) mutas to take down the medivacs continuously. I just watched the G1, and i see Raynor bringing my idea to live. im extatic. SO MANY epic moves in this first game ! the baneling traps ! the grand strategy (see how he used the mutas so Clem had to retreat to his base) , and even a Serral-festor !
i will make a bookmark in my browser bar just so i can watch this again and again. quite like the finals of soccer world cup 98
That game 6 was just madness, I agree that was one of the top sc2 games of all time, the speed and acuracy of both...
actions all over the map, yet somehow i think winter still did a great job focusing on all the right places. In game 1, when clem first got hit at 22:27 with the bane mines and winter said it was a barn-door locking-situation, because it seemed instantaneously reactive and almost mindless, like it was overly-safe and borderline useless, like he "wasted" a scan. That made it hilarious to see the split hits at 25:57 - 26:10, because raynor predicted that clem would ADAPT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME to avoid that "wasted" post-hit scan because of the earlier one, only this time it wouldn't have been wasted, and the second hit landed. These guys are operating on a mental speed that's just on another level
Dude, I just want to say that your just really good at what you do. Thank you for your time
I've played this game for so long and this was for sure the best series I've ever watched.
What an amazing series of games with an amazingh caster!
Great commentary, great games!! Cheers mate, from Australia!!
I enjoyed both the games and the commentary. Thank you, Winter.
This matchup is just so, so broken.
In game 1 the fact that it took 27 minutes for Clem to finally not have a way back in illustrates it perfectly. That was one of the most thorough trouncings I've ever seen in SC2, and Terran gets to just keep going, waiting for a single mistake from Zerg to win the game for no reason.
It is true. Mules make it way too easy for Terran to stay in the game, even with much less bases and also castrate the real impact of harassment in later stages of the game.
Me and a friend always joke that matches vs Terrans are
"The terran lost only 30 scvs, this might not be sufficient damage"
"The Terran killed 4 drones/probes, we're now just watching a slow death animation"
Agreed 100%, zerg has to take huge risks and throw away hundreds of supply for low potential reward while terran has the privilege to throw low risk low supply high reward drops everywhere, because the intended counter to drops (mutas) is just too expensive in both gas and APM.
Units are supposed to have weaknesses. Most of terran's units are balanced and fun because they have weaknesses. Siege tank has a great design. Its inability to move when deployed is a legit weakness that can reasonably be exploited and countered. Tanks are potentially game-endingly powerful if the terran can find and set up a great defensive position, but it's not unwinnable. Makes for great games.
The marine's weakness is supposed to be that it's slow and relatively immobile. Medivacs make marines among the most mobile unit in the game, more mobile than zerglings in fact because zerglings don't fly. Imagine if zerg had a unit that synergized with its basic infantry so well that it completely removed the zergling's intended weakness (its low hp). Imagine cracklings with all their speed and dps but that are also infuriatingly hard to kill and you'll understand why I think medivacs are bullshit. Supported by medivacs, marines just do not have any weaknesses. They deal insane, game-ending damage, they're hard to kill, they're fast, and they fly. Insane that people can watch a terran drop a zerg to death and think it's "a good game" and not just a kid being bullied for 20 minutes with no recourse. It's not exciting, it's just frustrating and sad.
AND GHOSTS. Ghosts are the most overpowered unit in the game, period. No spellcaster should scale that well with numbers. You shouldn't be able to make 30 of your late game spellcaster and win. If half your army supply is in spellcasters, your army should be *less* powerful, not more. Remember when Infestors scaled really well because of infested terran spam? Yeah, they NERFED it, for good reason.
@@davehollis5816 This is dead-on. Z and P are actually fairly impressively balanced, I think with the exception of Disruptors needing a rework to make them more consistent.
On the other hand, the entire current design of Terran is a joke. To the point of them being overwhelmingly the most successful and powerful option at every level of play (outside of the top 0.0001% being split between zerg and terran.)
Marine-Medivac, Mules/Scans, Widow Mines, and Ghosts are each totally independently, game-breakingly overpowered.... But we're just used to it...? Like, nobody looks at the ladder winrates at ANY tier? OR watches the games?
@@vox5505 I do also think Mules, scans, and widow mines are potentially a bit overtuned. But to me they're not as bad as the things I whined about already.
It *is* kind of nuts that a terran can lose half his workers and survive. But it's not like mules are totally free. The mule/scan tradeoff is meaningful I think, and there *is* counterplay there.
Scans aren't *as* troublesome IMO until the very late game when you can afford to have 9-12 orbitals, when it starts really feeling like map hacks. But that does cost a lot of money, so it's hard for me to call it IMBA and feel like I'm being honest.
Widow Mines are definitely too cheap for what they can do. But I don't think they're THAT broken. Again, there is counterplay.
The reason I call out medivacs in particular is that there IS no counterplay to mass multidrops. You drop 8 or 16 marines, you can either win the game outright or do *some* damage and escape for free. You risk nothing, it takes very little micro compared to what the zerg has to do to defend, and you are guaranteed to do some damage, if not just win. As soon as the ling swarm finally approaches, you just instantly slurp back up into space and zoom away, consequence free.
There's nothing the zerg can do about this. It's either lose because the damage from mass drops unavoidably stacks up and puts you behind, or you lose because you sunk thousands of gas into a unit that can't fight, and your army is now too weak to handle pushes. It's got to be the most frustrating and unfair interaction imaginable for the zerg, but we're all supposed to think of it as "exciting" and "high octane" because balance discussion is so brutally stigmatized.
Thanks for the reply btw.
i grew up on SC broodwar, used to watch replays all the time, when husky stoped i kinda stopped too. looks like i found my fav sc2 caster. keep up the good work, its great to see the game and how competive it is now.
That game one is absolutely insane, I haven't even watched the rest yet and feels like hours of awesome SC
game 3 is just infuriating to watch. T loses 29 SCVs at 5:50! 29!! it's literally half of what he had! and T is still in the game, and has OK chances. T is the easy-mode race, by far the most forgiving and with the best tools. no Z or P can survive losing 29 workers so early. it's bonkers that this is considered "balanced".
Mules and medivacs are broken. Put a cap on the number of simultaneous mules and should medivacs really instantly pick up units? There is literally no counter for Zerg except an expensive paper mache bat creature and 800+ of APM. And it will still take some luck..
It feels like every week you post "the best match I've ever seen", and yet you never lie lol!
SC2 is still the greatest game to watch for me. No game could possibly come close to a good TvZ in SC2.
man! I gotta say I love to see winter changing his voice and making up crazy fun dialogues as Susan ou Brenda (queens) talking to their imaginary counterparts! its max level entertainment
I smashed the like-button immediately!
I almost didn’t for that “Post Youth” comment but fealty cannot be fickle.
I think that "French killing the Queen is a revolutionary strategy" maaay have passed by some people's radar, that was brilliant and silly 😄
*insert I got that reference meme here*
Yes. And then there was 1:42:54 "How many ghosts are left? Just one! And that's not enough. He wants to cancel that harder than Blizzard would.", which also may have gone unnoticed by some, though this is not one for the history buffs :)
this whole video is full of amazing Winter one liners tbh
dudes smart af.
I loved the baneling callback in the first game. Eats a bane hit and immediately scans after: "oh what a fool to look for them after they went off!" so he remembers not to scan on a bane hit: "oh what a fool he didn't check for more!"
I have played SC2 off and on since its release. In the last few years it has been Winter that drags me back in. Just want to say Thank You for reminding me how bad I am at a game I love so much :)
Muuuutaaaas are back! Hell yeah, been waiting for this! Entertainment level going certainly up. Btw, APM of Reyonor is just insane
You're one of the best commentators/streamers sc2 has ever seen brother been tuning in for years now!
As an SC 1 player I've never understood how sc2 players build 1 anti air turret and say "yep, this is enough". And equally how no opponents realize this
Thanks for the commentary as always, Winter. The 2 players with the most APM in the galaxy is exhausting to cast let alone play. It's like they both have stim cells in their veins.
Oh reynor is a player at my own heart with those games… a massive Muta/ling/bane composition straight out of SC1 with some bane support and a sealing ultra play is peak Zerg gameplay for me it’s my favorite style to play, then a sneaky all in ling/queen drop that caught Clem completely off guard for game 2 was icing on the cake… reynor is playing exactly how I got into StarCraft all those years ago and fell in love with the Zerg it’s such beautiful masterwork gameplay well played games
1:26:31 - "he's relying on queens! Brenda: What does that bring you? back to me." hahaha
"We've Arriiiiiiiived!!!"
great casts, thanks m8
Both Clem and Reynor at another level. Remember watching them as they came up these games are nuts
Just gotta say, your commentary is bar none hilarious, knowledgeable and keeps me locked in. Keep it up bro
THE FIRST game alone - BAM!
As a Zerg player, those bane mine hits in game one improved my heart health.
WOW what a truly incredible set of games!
Great match. As always, great commentary.
First match was fantastic! Looking forward to the rest!
top favorite winter moments;
1) when brenda/susan/margret ect psionically channel their thoughts into winter and he "blacks out" showing us what they are saying.
2) when he calls YOUR mom (not my mom) Massive.
3) when he yells at Jimmy for anything.
4) when he tells us to like and sub and we might get another cast (even though he will probably do it anyway)
5) When the game gets crazy and he gets louder and talks faster haha
6) when he reminds those of us who got the game when it came out (on CD mind you) that we are post youth every time the map comes up.
7) FUISIOOOOOONNNNNN COOOOOORREE (although it's probably for liberator range most times.) Sometimes applies to fleet beacon. Should start doing it for greater spire because as we all know, winter is 1/3 zerg himself.
Make Spire Great again.
Good cast Winter and very impressed by reynor !
Window mine , Ghost , Marine
Whiner
@@yunfanfan9452 The ghost need a big nerf. Also unlimited scans aka maphack is not good right now.
@@yunfanfan9452I don’t even play StarCraft lol , I’m just a observer
just a fungle and all of this dies :3
@@AntoineDubruque ghost counter it, cloack, more range more energy
What a Cast. Thanks for the sc2 content!
thanks. very cool moderation, very cool games. thanks once more.
Winter looks like he needs a stiff drink and a nap after that series 😳 WOW Amazing, thank you 💜
Excellent set of games, a great pleasure to watch
Game 5 commentary is epic winter
I have been watching winter for almost 10 years now
"The SCVs are trying to repair the Orbital but it's still burning. Typical contractors." Man I love your humor.
This games are so good that 30sec in and i hv already liked and subbed
"A muta-risk" top-tier pun! 7:50
Damn it winter. You got me again. Tell Brenda I say hi!
Hey man, I grew up playing WC then WC2, then SC.... by the time SC2 came out I had moved on. But after falling upon your videos, the commentary makes it worth watching. I enjoy watching SC2 games now, but only if you're commentating!
TBH I stop SC2 1y ago and I often comeback to see matchs only because of your passion, you'r a good man Mr. WINTER
killing 30 workers at 5 minutes and still getting outpassed economically is wild
Reynor finally making mutalingbane and banemines work at least somewhat. And you only need about 700 APM to do so too!
Just found out about your channel. Absolutely love your energy bro. This shit is so entertaining!
so good this is my 2nd watch through.
I enjoyed the action in both the casting and the games!
Fantastic 2h
In Italian, "Porque no los dos?" is "Perché non entrambi?" ^^
Keep up the good work :)
15 attak 5 defense makes more sense for Clem, since he is still inconsistent, but with the ability to be unstoppable.
11:56 Ugh, f'ing bureaucracy man! I mean whose genius idea was it to put a Hatchery there?!?!
You make my day just a little bit better.
First time commenting... winter I personally think ur the most entertaining SC channel. Plz plz keep this up brother this is gold. Ur great at wut u do.
I cracked up when Reynor supplied blocked himself with the overseer to draw widdow mine reveals!
WinterStarcraft, ur content makes me happy
Winter keeps me wanting to play Starcraft. Sometimes i watch a vid and i have to hop on
"The Murder of Mutas"
I wonder how many got that. Nice one 😂
At least the crow enjoyers.
The reaction on the tumour transfusion haha ^^
That was quite entertaining to watch ! thank you
PS : it cannot be the "best" SC2 game without Protoss though.
What an insane first game I couldn't even fathom this
Mootarisk! Truly the best at what you do.
Great games, thanks:)
I've only watched the first game so far but this is amazing
Terrans like the rectangle maps, zergs like the square maps. Also don’t get me started on the 2010 tal-darim altar LE in 2010
Great game; great cast. Orbital scan is OP.
nowdays i can't watch a game of sc2 without winter commentary
Thank You
Om nom nom
You are the best caster