Merton's vision of the Contemplative Life. A Catholic Trappist Monk, his mystical spirituality was informed by the mystics of the Western and Eastern Religious Traditions.
Hi Fersomling! To understand the Upanishads one should consider the self. Beyond what is taught, beyond what is believed, beyond what is conceived there is the self. Spirituality is acknowledgment of the inner you. The physical is what can be experienced by the senses, the ethereal is what can be experienced by the spirit. In all it explains that God is literally "all that is"(everything in and out of existence), and how you, as a part of God, experiences itself. We are intimately bound to all.
@fntime You do raise a vital point - what are we all doing here - if Merton's experience is private?Well it must be private -none of can enter into it -otherwise it wouldnt be 'his' and we would be voyeurs. But all i can say is for years I thought that prayer had only to do with words, petition, intercession etc. So to encounter Merton's defenition of 'Contemplation' as something 'other than that' was a revelation and incredibly liberating but of course that doesnt answer the question of 'how'
Why is Connie Rossini allowed to constantly challenge Centering Prayer, in particular Fr Keating but she will only mention that the term "Centering Prayer" was coined by "Thomas Merton" immediately casting negative, almost evil aspersions on his memory and by that she makes him responsible for every deviation there is in the practice of Centering Prayer. There are many it seems who have developed their own forms of Centering Prayer, so that they are not even recognizable from the Prayer Patterns introduced by Thomas Merton.
Phenomenal, when I hear from other men the words which I'm poorly able to express but they resonate and confirm my reality and experience its a gift and a celebration which Ive never known material goods chemical etc to have even a resemblance of. Surly poorly I'm suggesting purity and clarity of being. John 15 I am the true vine says it far more eloquently than I ever could .Fr Keaton has touched or God has spoken through him in a very similar way Merton express' vibrates wordless truth yet his ability w/ words are great pointers. This reality and gift Contemplation permitted or removed the need for my false self ego. I have my true identity in sonship with God. As a sinner I forget this and can be turned to worldly matters. Human!
'In the very act of indicating what it knows -the contemplative mind takes back what it has said and denies what it has affirmed -an awakening to the real in all that is real'. Many are not even aware of the 'question' or that there is a question to be answered.. But that's 'do-able' - and to become aware even of that is a gift. Far more problematic is that many have answered the wrong question -and that's much harder to 'undo'. Thus - the athiest is nearer God than the fundamentalist Christian.
Oh wow, will have to think and think about this, "The atheist is nearer God than the fundamentalist Christian." Thank you, TH-cam commenter "jezkn", for writing.
contemplation follows after centering prayer or meditation as God's gift if we are paying attention...we offer our souls in love to Him...our whole hearts in love to Him...and then allow Him to give this gift...its not entirely passive...it is merely the passivity of the female ballet dancer as He holds us in the air...the method comes first which is centering prayer or meditation, both of which have the moment when you can finally "let go and let God"...as you do this, even Merton said humourously once we aren't passive in the sense of a dead sack of potatoes...we offer ourselves continually as a bride offers herself to the bridegroom...this the Orthodox describe as synchronicity....it is not pure passivity...it is mutual love between the bridegroom God and we his bride...
@dadasopher I think I'm missing your point. I'm kind of stupid so don't be offended. Irony is sometimes lost on me. The meditation of negation seems to give the same results. Are we talking about the same thing? I'm not offering a competing methodalogy but rather wondering if we are talking about the same thing with different names. Thanks for your reply!
@jezkn I'm probably missing your point, but could you elaborate a little more. Are you a meditator? And the title of the video is "What is Contemplation?" If his experience is private, then why the video and what are we all doing here? I'm sure it's my misunderstanding of your comment. I realise there limitations in commenting, but I'd like to hear more of your viewpoint. Thanks!!!
@fntime Actually N0 - because ... ONE: there is no single definition of meditation (even within Christianity never mind between religions) - infact there are atleast two contradictory definitions so to which do you refer? TWO - nobody knows 'how' Thomas Merton 'Contemplated'. And that is exactly the way he intended it to be. So none of us could possibly enter into his experience (or 'method'), Indeed we couldn't do that for anybody could we?
@fntime ooh-how much space will Dadospher allow us? Just taking Christianity alone- modern interpretation of meditation' as 'imageless, wordless, non-mental prayer' is in stark contrast with older meaning of meditating 'on something' (scripture,sacred texts and 'mind pictures' of bible stories-as if you were there- as in Ignatian tradition). Modern Christian definition of meditation is influenced by other religions (Buddhism/Hinduism) But even there, there is wide variation and inconsistency >
@fntime Therefore meditation is confused with Contemplation. Merton would not have accepted this.But then changeof meaning took place post Merton. How did Merton 'Contemplate' ? Nowhere does he tell us. Some Christians use a mantra to 'still the mind' and clear the way or 'Prayer of the Heart' as in Hesychasm (Bede Griffith used this) But as regards 'Method' it's not clear what Merton did or even whether he needed to. So for me to say whether I 'meditate' wouldn't tell you a lot. But yes I do!
@williamcanatsey Absolutely. It was New Seeds that changed the way I see the world. A glimpse into the world of the contemplative, the hint of a glimpse. I used to want to have Beatific Visions, but now I am content to have the occasional intimation. It is a gift.
@fntime .... Just listened again to Dadasphers upload of Merton's wonderfully evocative, terse poem: 'The solitary Life'. Merton says in that .... 'I don't talk about all that ....' and when he describes 'Contemplation' here in an 'apothatic' (not apathetic!) way - the same applies : ... he's still not.... 'talking about all that ...'
dadasopher: What you call Merton's "negation" is actually a dialectic which climbs from human beings to the Source, the Transcendent, then answers back into the life of the contemplative being.
Beautiful. What a gift, the spark that bursts from us, we know, we feel even for just an eternal moment, what grace, we know. The laugh, the joy, the peace, the immense love, I love you My Love, My Father
Yes, sort of, but more aligned with The Cloud Of Unknowing, which as you know, played a functional role in the development of Centering Prayer. You grasp the similarity well. The prayer of unknowing/centering prayer, disposes us for contemplative prayer by removing obstacles that hinder receptivity. i.e. The gift or grace of contemplative prayer. Zen methods, like mantra use, or counting the breath is sort of the same...it leads the mind from discursive thought to unknowing stillness. Peace.
Come home. You have not found your happiness in foreign places and in alien forms that have no meaning to you, though you sought to make them meaningful. This world is not where you belong. You are a stranger here. But it is given you to find the means whereby the world no longer seems to be a prison house or jail for anyone. Freedom is given you where you beheld but chains and iron doors. But you must change your mind about the purpose of the world, if you would find escape. You will be bound till all the world is seen by you as blessed, and everyone made free of your mistakes and honored as he is. -- A Course In Miracles (author: Holy Spirit)
It's me.
Very vivid and lucid. Merton is a force for the 21st century. An aide to seek refuge from a world that is becoming more convoluted and disparate.
I have listened to this over and over again. Great text. Thank you!
The source, please!
Hi Fersomling! To understand the Upanishads one should consider the self. Beyond what is taught, beyond what is believed, beyond what is conceived there is the self. Spirituality is acknowledgment of the inner you. The physical is what can be experienced by the senses, the ethereal is what can be experienced by the spirit. In all it explains that God is literally "all that is"(everything in and out of existence), and how you, as a part of God, experiences itself. We are intimately bound to all.
@fntime You do raise a vital point - what are we all doing here - if Merton's experience is private?Well it must be private -none of can enter into it -otherwise it wouldnt be 'his' and we would be voyeurs. But all i can say is for years I thought that prayer had only to do with words, petition, intercession etc. So to encounter Merton's defenition of 'Contemplation' as something 'other than that' was a revelation and incredibly liberating but of course that doesnt answer the question of 'how'
Refenced from Thomas Mertons "New Seeds Of Contemplation". Highly recommended reading, or you can listen on TH-cam.
This video is a gift that continues to give so many years later.
Why is Connie Rossini allowed to constantly challenge Centering Prayer, in particular Fr Keating but she will only mention that the term "Centering Prayer" was coined by "Thomas Merton" immediately casting negative, almost evil aspersions on his memory and by that she makes him responsible for every deviation there is in the practice of Centering Prayer. There are many it seems who have developed their own forms of Centering Prayer, so that they are not even recognizable from the Prayer Patterns introduced by Thomas Merton.
Phenomenal, when I hear from other men the words which I'm poorly able to express but they resonate and confirm my reality and experience its a gift and a celebration which Ive never known material goods chemical etc to have even a resemblance of. Surly poorly I'm suggesting purity and clarity of being. John 15 I am the true vine says it far more eloquently than I ever could .Fr Keaton has touched or God has spoken through him in a very similar way Merton express' vibrates wordless truth yet his ability w/ words are great pointers. This reality and gift Contemplation permitted or removed the need for my false self ego. I have my true identity in sonship with God. As a sinner I forget this and can be turned to worldly matters. Human!
'In the very act of indicating what it knows -the contemplative mind takes back what it has said and denies what it has affirmed -an awakening to the real in all that is real'.
Many are not even aware of the 'question' or that there is a question to be answered.. But that's 'do-able' - and to become aware even of that is a gift. Far more problematic is that many have answered the wrong question -and that's much harder to 'undo'. Thus - the athiest is nearer God than the fundamentalist Christian.
Oh wow, will have to think and think about this, "The atheist is nearer God than the fundamentalist Christian." Thank you, TH-cam commenter "jezkn", for writing.
Thank you for liking this video! The voice is mine.
contemplation follows after centering prayer or meditation as God's gift if we are paying attention...we offer our souls in love to Him...our whole hearts in love to Him...and then allow Him to give this gift...its not entirely passive...it is merely the passivity of the female ballet dancer as He holds us in the air...the method comes first which is centering prayer or meditation, both of which have the moment when you can finally "let go and let God"...as you do this, even Merton said humourously once we aren't passive in the sense of a dead sack of potatoes...we offer ourselves continually as a bride offers herself to the bridegroom...this the Orthodox describe as synchronicity....it is not pure passivity...it is mutual love between the bridegroom God and we his bride...
chanan mattison Excellent comment. I remember a teacher using the term "actively passive" when it came to receptiveness in prayer.
6:18 💜
@dadasopher I think I'm missing your point. I'm kind of stupid
so don't be offended. Irony is sometimes lost on me.
The meditation of negation seems to give the same results.
Are we talking about the same thing?
I'm not offering a competing methodalogy but rather
wondering if we are talking about the same thing
with different names.
Thanks for your reply!
@jezkn I'm probably missing your point, but could you elaborate a little
more. Are you a meditator?
And the title of the video is "What is Contemplation?" If his experience
is private, then why the video and what are we all doing here?
I'm sure it's my misunderstanding of your comment. I realise there
limitations in commenting, but I'd like to hear more of your
viewpoint. Thanks!!!
@fntime Actually N0 - because ... ONE: there is no single definition of meditation (even within Christianity never mind between religions) - infact there are atleast two contradictory definitions so to which do you refer?
TWO - nobody knows 'how' Thomas Merton 'Contemplated'. And that is exactly the way he intended it to be. So none of us could possibly enter into his experience (or 'method'), Indeed we couldn't do that for anybody could we?
@fntime ooh-how much space will Dadospher allow us? Just taking Christianity alone- modern interpretation of meditation' as 'imageless, wordless, non-mental prayer' is in stark contrast with older meaning of meditating 'on something' (scripture,sacred texts and 'mind pictures' of bible stories-as if you were there- as in Ignatian tradition). Modern Christian definition of meditation is influenced by other religions (Buddhism/Hinduism) But even there, there is wide variation and inconsistency >
It's from the opening pages of his incredible book, "New Seeds of Contemplation." I'm glad you like them. It's my favorite book of his.
I was thinking about buying this book
@fntime Therefore meditation is confused with Contemplation. Merton would not have accepted this.But then changeof meaning took place post Merton. How did Merton 'Contemplate' ? Nowhere does he tell us. Some Christians use a mantra to 'still the mind' and clear the way or 'Prayer of the Heart' as in Hesychasm (Bede Griffith used this) But as regards 'Method' it's not clear what Merton did or even whether he needed to. So for me to say whether I 'meditate' wouldn't tell you a lot. But yes I do!
Bloody marvellous ...
@williamcanatsey Absolutely. It was New Seeds that changed the way I see the world. A glimpse into the world of the contemplative, the hint of a glimpse. I used to want to have Beatific Visions, but now I am content to have the occasional intimation. It is a gift.
@fntime .... Just listened again to Dadasphers upload of Merton's wonderfully evocative, terse poem: 'The solitary Life'. Merton says in that .... 'I don't talk about all that ....' and when he describes 'Contemplation' here in an 'apothatic' (not apathetic!) way - the same applies : ... he's still not.... 'talking about all that ...'
@psychomystic21 Could you elaborate. How do you distinguish
meditation from contemplation.
Do you contemplate?
Do you meditate?
dadasopher: What you call Merton's "negation" is actually a dialectic which climbs from human beings to the Source, the Transcendent, then answers back into the life of the contemplative being.
Hi. I am a Christian with next to no knowledge about Hindu spirituality or the Upanishads. Could you give me a synopsis thereof?
Beautiful. What a gift, the spark that bursts from us, we know, we feel even for just an eternal moment, what grace, we know. The laugh, the joy, the peace, the immense love, I love you My Love, My Father
Sounds like a "Zen" moment. They come rarely and cannot be forced
Yes, sort of, but more aligned with The Cloud Of Unknowing, which as you know, played a functional role in the development of Centering Prayer. You grasp the similarity well. The prayer of unknowing/centering prayer, disposes us for contemplative prayer by removing obstacles that hinder receptivity. i.e. The gift or grace of contemplative prayer. Zen methods, like mantra use, or counting the breath is sort of the same...it leads the mind from discursive thought to unknowing stillness. Peace.
I am at the very beginning of the Three Ways, and I thank God for His Grace to accept the Gift of Faith, and I thank God for the Church!
The greatest way to God, Truth!!
indeed!
New Seeds is a great read. It was written just before, "No Man is an Island." He takes you into the stratosphere of mysticism.
The source of the passage is this: New Seeds of Contemplation, Thomas Merton. Chapter 1: "What is Contemplation?"
Confused... but who's in a position to distinguish between meditation and contemplation anyways? ;)
Thanks for the video the images are beautiful. Is that Thomas Mertons' voice...BTW, the Pope is in Mexico this week. God Bless the Pope..
I am the he reincarnation of the Virgin Mary in this new generation from the Philippines!
WE MUST ALL REALIZE THE KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN LIKE FR. MERTON
Yup. That’s the place all right. I am so grateful for this lucid exposition.
LISTEN TO THE MUSIC OF URBANO MEDEIROS (BRAZIL) spiritual son of Thomas Merton !!
What a great video. Very nice to come across while currently reading the Upanishads.
@fntime A meditation on contemplation? hahahahaha
Centering prayer. This sounds like what Thomas merton is speaking of here
I found this talk a great introduction to contemplation. I hope many people come to see it.
A perfect combination, Upanishads and Thomas Merton.
It's mine. Or was mine, three years ago.
Which of Merton's books is this passage from?
@jezkn Amen to that, jezkn!
@jetmarshall
" new seeds of contemplation"
This sounds like meditation.
Beautiful. where can I read this?
Come home. You have not found your happiness in foreign places and in alien forms that have no meaning to you, though you sought to make them meaningful. This world is not where you belong. You are a stranger here. But it is given you to find the means whereby the world no longer seems to be a prison house or jail for anyone.
Freedom is given you where you beheld but chains and iron doors. But you must change your mind about the purpose of the world, if you would find escape. You will be bound till all the world is seen by you as blessed, and everyone made free of your mistakes and honored as he is.
-- A Course In Miracles (author: Holy Spirit)
May all beings benefit
Thank you too, John!
Amen!
It's funny that he says "contemplation is a vision without seeing.." yet the whole video is full of imagery, especially scenes of nature.
aristotle358 But the video also expresses life! :)
I am Priceless!
I am God's masterpiece!
I am love!
I am living in the present!
I am awareness of all!
I am observant!
I am contemplation
I am nothing,my nothingness is my cherished possession!
I am Music and art!
I am the Seat of Wisdom!
To be nothing is to have all!