I like RNG when it is possible to be overcome by skill. When you are entirely at the mercy of RNG then it is either a terrible game, or should be built entirely around it to an extent. Like BG3, it works in that game because: It is based on DnD, where RNG is how combat and everything is done to mimic the fact that sometimes luck does in fact effect real life. It also allows save scumming for those unwilling to accept bad rolls to force the story to go the way they want rather than just letting it happen.
Great video as always - I particularly love the bit about 'faking the numbers'. Very important point, play into the psychology of the player. I had to implement this in Swords and Sandals Immortals because players constantly would complain about the odds being against them. RNG is probably the number one complaint about my games, (aside from the bugs!) , but like you said, its a level playing field for every player and it makes for unpredictable and memorable gameplay, heroic victories, crushing defeats.
One point Id like to add is that it simplifies complex interactions. Like when you imagine a turn based combat game and there are two units each dealing exactly 5 every time. Give them a damage range, a crit chance and a dodge/miss chance and it suddenly feels like combat with the two combatants trying to hit each other, dodging attacks, strikes getting deflected by armor, strikes to vulnerable places like the hard, poorly executed strikes etc. You get all of this feeling without actually simulating any of it. A game which has almost zero randomness is Into the Breach. Its a very good game, but the fights often dont feel like combat - they feel like a puzzle.
I think the aspect of complexity is also quite important. If everything is pre-determined, it can be easy to plan ahead. But if there's randomness suddenly there's a lot more 'possibility space' to account for. Multiplayer games can (and often want to) ignore this factor because player's minds themselves add plenty complexity; with no more RNG needed.
To me it's rather simple - I like RNG as a supplement, but not as a main driving force behind the outcome. - If I play a real-time game, I prefer my skill as a player to do the majority of the work. 80% skill, 20% RNG. - If I play a turn-based game, I prefer my choice of stats, gear, and course of action to do the majority of the work. 80% stats, 20% RNG. If it's anywhere more RNG-reliant than that, it feels really arbitrary.
"Somewhere between 8 and 12 reasons.." :D I think the main problem I have with RNG is when a game feels like a slot machine more than a test of skill, which can take away the sense of accomplishment when losing/winning was just up to chance. Although some games lean heavily into the randomness and make it work, by building their theme around it. So I guess it depends on what sort of game it is and how they present it. In TF2 I find random crits to be really bad for my enjoyment (but I can acknowledge that most likely it has been to TF2's benefit for their success). I think most games include RNG to their benefit though. In Backpack Battles there is for example randomness to which items you are presented in the shop, and weapons have accuracy - the shop randomness is an element of the game where the more skill you have the better you are at utilizing the various items you see, and learn to spend your gold better between items/rerolling, so it doesn't feel out of my hands. And then the accuracy/crit chance of items in the fight is something you can affect through your item build, and adds some variance to the fight to make it more exciting. So even though there is a lot of randomness, it still leaves a whole lot the player can do to improve their odds of winning. #5 "Faked" - This one I can see some games get away with in a way that only improves player enjoyment. But If I would discover this in a game I'm playing I would feel cheated and unable to trust any numbers I see in the game, and then trying to theorycraft builds or comparing two options would feel useless since you can't know if the game is lying to you. Not completely the same topic, but this is where I like pseudorandomness.
Can you guys make a tutorial how to create a 2D chain lightning skill which shoots out from the player and hits one enemy and chains to another enemy and so on? You always make so quick and easy tutorials I would love to learn how it works to make a chain lightning.⚡⚡⚡
About the "lying about the odds"-thing: Are there real-life examples of games that do this (or have done)? It seems to me that something like this would be exposed by the min-maxing theorycrafters quite qickly (at least with games of a a certain popularity). I like the idea though. Great video!
I remember an anecdote about xcom where the devs said that for most percentages in the game, they are lies and more in favor of the player than they actually say they are, at least at the extremes. For example, for a shot with 5% chance to hit, it was coded so players actually got it 10% of the time (numbers made up by me).
small-scale randomness is kinda aids but lets say in giant space battles with hundreds of thousands of battleships fighting each other it would even out in some bernouli-fashion and would gravitate toward something that could be seen as non-randomness however in something like pokemon where every turn counts a lot having 2 crits and 3 flinches in 1 vgc game literally is game breaking xD (it doesnt matter how much lucky u get in all other games combined, u just need 1 bad match which is statistically possible due to high variance in the numbers/low turn count per match for this to mess up ur entire tournament, which makes pokemon competitively pretty pepega)
Hello guys, can you make a video about curves in godot? There is no correct tutorial which can work on new godot versions. Only you should save the world... Explain the wisdom of curves to people, please..
How do you feel about RNG?
Also don't forget to check out the Backpack Battles demo!
i love backpack Battles , it's now my hyperfixation game can't wait to see full release
Could you teach how to make "good" randomness in godot please?
Good idea, we will see if there is enough interest for it :D
@@PlayWithFurcifer Thank you for considering it, Sensei 🙏
I like RNG when it is possible to be overcome by skill. When you are entirely at the mercy of RNG then it is either a terrible game, or should be built entirely around it to an extent. Like BG3, it works in that game because:
It is based on DnD, where RNG is how combat and everything is done to mimic the fact that sometimes luck does in fact effect real life.
It also allows save scumming for those unwilling to accept bad rolls to force the story to go the way they want rather than just letting it happen.
Great video as always - I particularly love the bit about 'faking the numbers'. Very important point, play into the psychology of the player. I had to implement this in Swords and Sandals Immortals because players constantly would complain about the odds being against them. RNG is probably the number one complaint about my games, (aside from the bugs!) , but like you said, its a level playing field for every player and it makes for unpredictable and memorable gameplay, heroic victories, crushing defeats.
Thank you very much :)
That's great to hear, players really want it but really dont know that they want it
One point Id like to add is that it simplifies complex interactions. Like when you imagine a turn based combat game and there are two units each dealing exactly 5 every time. Give them a damage range, a crit chance and a dodge/miss chance and it suddenly feels like combat with the two combatants trying to hit each other, dodging attacks, strikes getting deflected by armor, strikes to vulnerable places like the hard, poorly executed strikes etc. You get all of this feeling without actually simulating any of it.
A game which has almost zero randomness is Into the Breach. Its a very good game, but the fights often dont feel like combat - they feel like a puzzle.
Celeste, a platforming game, has almost no randomness in it, randomness is used for animations and that's it.
@@APNifty
Whats your point here?
@@hansbansor5170 I just think it's neat
furcifer's dungeon was one of my fav games to play when i was bored at school
That's so cool lol
Full release might still take a while
I think the aspect of complexity is also quite important. If everything is pre-determined, it can be easy to plan ahead. But if there's randomness suddenly there's a lot more 'possibility space' to account for. Multiplayer games can (and often want to) ignore this factor because player's minds themselves add plenty complexity; with no more RNG needed.
As someone who’s had many discussions about 1d20 vs 2d10 I was hoping for a little more math and statistics.
To me it's rather simple - I like RNG as a supplement, but not as a main driving force behind the outcome.
- If I play a real-time game, I prefer my skill as a player to do the majority of the work. 80% skill, 20% RNG.
- If I play a turn-based game, I prefer my choice of stats, gear, and course of action to do the majority of the work. 80% stats, 20% RNG.
If it's anywhere more RNG-reliant than that, it feels really arbitrary.
Here I was hoping you'd tell me how I wouldn't have to spend 6 hours trying to get a certain random drop.
i actually like the concept of break points and think they r strangely smooth (in their roughness) 🤔
Fun and information-packed, as usual :) Thanks
Glad you liked it :D
Faking the numbers is a good point, XCOM does that very openly. 70% hit chance hits 10% of the time
Everything that isn't 100% is 15% at most actually
"Somewhere between 8 and 12 reasons.." :D
I think the main problem I have with RNG is when a game feels like a slot machine more than a test of skill, which can take away the sense of accomplishment when losing/winning was just up to chance. Although some games lean heavily into the randomness and make it work, by building their theme around it. So I guess it depends on what sort of game it is and how they present it. In TF2 I find random crits to be really bad for my enjoyment (but I can acknowledge that most likely it has been to TF2's benefit for their success). I think most games include RNG to their benefit though.
In Backpack Battles there is for example randomness to which items you are presented in the shop, and weapons have accuracy - the shop randomness is an element of the game where the more skill you have the better you are at utilizing the various items you see, and learn to spend your gold better between items/rerolling, so it doesn't feel out of my hands. And then the accuracy/crit chance of items in the fight is something you can affect through your item build, and adds some variance to the fight to make it more exciting. So even though there is a lot of randomness, it still leaves a whole lot the player can do to improve their odds of winning.
#5 "Faked" - This one I can see some games get away with in a way that only improves player enjoyment. But If I would discover this in a game I'm playing I would feel cheated and unable to trust any numbers I see in the game, and then trying to theorycraft builds or comparing two options would feel useless since you can't know if the game is lying to you. Not completely the same topic, but this is where I like pseudorandomness.
Luck to be a landlord
Can you guys make a tutorial how to create a 2D chain lightning skill which shoots out from the player and hits one enemy and chains to another enemy and so on? You always make so quick and easy tutorials I would love to learn how it works to make a chain lightning.⚡⚡⚡
ooooh the bit about the zerglings made things click for me!
hi, I was wondering if you have the time to do a full course vfx 2D/3D in godot 4 I would be interested to buy it
About the "lying about the odds"-thing: Are there real-life examples of games that do this (or have done)? It seems to me that something like this would be exposed by the min-maxing theorycrafters quite qickly (at least with games of a a certain popularity). I like the idea though.
Great video!
I remember an anecdote about xcom where the devs said that for most percentages in the game, they are lies and more in favor of the player than they actually say they are, at least at the extremes. For example, for a shot with 5% chance to hit, it was coded so players actually got it 10% of the time (numbers made up by me).
@@bengardner8639 Same with Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, though Square would never say it themselves and it's more for younger players anyway.
@PlayWithFurcifer Do you need someone to translate Backpack Battles to Portuguese for you? I`d love to! :)
MFW I reroll the shop 5 times and still don't get a bag in Backpack Battles :o
The thumbnail of RNJesus was perfect , there is no better way of portraying it LOL... even if I didnt watch it you were getting a like
small-scale randomness is kinda aids
but lets say in giant space battles with hundreds of thousands of battleships fighting each other it would even out in some bernouli-fashion and would gravitate toward something that could be seen as non-randomness
however in something like pokemon where every turn counts a lot having 2 crits and 3 flinches in 1 vgc game literally is game breaking xD (it doesnt matter how much lucky u get in all other games combined, u just need 1 bad match which is statistically possible due to high variance in the numbers/low turn count per match for this to mess up ur entire tournament, which makes pokemon competitively pretty pepega)
Another good example is shiny pokemon. I think Pokemon Go would have been dead if there are no rare and random shiny encounters.
YT chapters are your friend
also, 4:09 yes it can, pieces that are assembled into the real thing. But yes, it's much less exciting that way.
They really are not lol
Just go to 5:19 there all the points are given in a list
Hello guys, can you make a video about curves in godot? There is no correct tutorial which can work on new godot versions. Only you should save the world... Explain the wisdom of curves to people, please..
Love it🎉
Incorporating RNG into the video itself is ✨*chef's kiss*✨
:D
Cringe.
It,s so so good 💋👌
the gods of youtube, please, stop recommending to me the degenerative and degrading content, I beg you.
John, you obviously had a bad day, but that's no excuse to be an asshole.
Also, there is a button for that.
Not a good video. I Stopped watching it since I don't know what are RNGs?
lol