Episode 58: Hongi's Rotorua Campaign - Part 3

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 62

  • @peterthepakeha2799
    @peterthepakeha2799 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very very good 👍

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I love your youtube handle. Glad you enjoyed it.

    • @peterthepakeha2799
      @peterthepakeha2799 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger hahaha thanks, keep up the good work.

  • @justinsmith143
    @justinsmith143 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This episode was the cream on the cake of recognising dynamics of Maori utu on other Maori. Well done for achieving so much "papa Kiwi". This dynamic of Maori colonisation of other Maori, is so often missed by some who focus on simply blaming pakeha for such insidious consequences of colonisation, and yet miss recognising the huge consequences of invasion, murder, and stealing from Maori by other Maori- where the loss of mana, land, resources and of life is huge, and has ongoing consequences. By bringing some details of such history out of the obscuring mists can provide a platform for responsibility in our learning from the past, and "putting our foot firmly on it"... as we all go forward into a new age. Ka nui nga mihi rangatira ki a koutou kei muri i te arai. Tena koutou. Tena tatou katoa. Mauri ora! :) :( :)

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Glad to see you have got to the end of your binge viewing. It was a great campaign by Hongi. Ripped apart Te Arawa for a few generations. In the course of two years Hongi removed the threat of Ngati Paoa, Ngati Maru, Waikato and finally Te Arawa...the man was a travelling disiaster for the rest of Maoridom....and then of corse you have Te Rauparaha doin the same thing down the west coast of the NI. It was a bloody tough time to be Maori without muskets. thats for sure

    • @misuseofdrugsact
      @misuseofdrugsact 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm not sure you can call it colonization when Ngapuhi went home after the battle.
      Be different if Hongi and his people settled in Rotorua wiped out the Te Arawa culture sold all their land and resources to registered Ngapuhi members and made Rotorua a colony of Ngapuhi.

    • @justinsmith143
      @justinsmith143 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Kia ora Dion. I understand your reasoning for that view. I think that we can all agree that rangatira like Hongi and Te Rauparaha desired to annihilate other tribes and establish absolute control of other Maori tribes. Colonisation and colonisation processes can be see from different perspectives. The coloniser and the colonised have different views. A definition of colonisation can be "the action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people of an area". By that definition people could claim that what pakeha did to the Australian aborigines was not colonisation because they had no apparent desire to 'settle among them", and typically pakeha did not want to "settle among Maori". If we look at the aspect of Maori tribes, of a quite recent past, desiring to "establish control over the indigenous people of an area" we can see that Maori could actually be described as much more vicious and more effective colonisers of other Maori than pakeha were. The value in contributors to our knowing and understanding , such as "Kiwi Codger", is valuable if we reflect on our behaviour as human beings. Such human dynamics of the past can carry forward with us today ..onto behaviour shown on social media posts. Kia kaha tatou te whaiwhakaaro tatou i a tatou-ahakoa ko wai. :) :) :)

    • @misuseofdrugsact
      @misuseofdrugsact 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@justinsmith143 Morena Justin. I think we will continue disagree on what these Rangatira intentions were.
      I feel his goal was to dismantle the Arikitanga that existed which governed Maori society. Breaking down Arikitanga and Rangatiratanga political and economic authority or autonomy. This would benefit the British. The British who were supplying Hongi with all the fire power in the first place. So maybe we are both right as these moves were made to promote future colonization not by Maori for Maori but a blank canvas by Maori for future Pakeha. Hongi may have just been a pawn in the chess game but was able to promote Ngapuhi and allowed him to play out his fantasies with the help of his British allies.
      If he was wanting to annihilate other tribes in hindsight he failed. If you look at the iwi he went to battle with they are thriving financially and economically today, were as Ngapuhi with all their sovereignty are yet to find their way onto the economic ladder.
      I don't believe Hongi was a great ambassador for Ngapuhi. This is just my thoughts. I appreciate any replies you have.

    • @justinsmith143
      @justinsmith143 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@misuseofdrugsact Tena koe e hoa. It is Ok to disagree -especially because you and I are actually fighting on the same side for truth here. Let no one underestimate the insidious and ongoing consequences of past and present colonisation dynamics. The more I study the historical details the more I am left recognising that all our ancestors "were once warriors". We can easily see how Maori behaved in past times, and how Pakeha behaved, and how certain world leaders are behaving today. May we also see how our own human behaviour affects others and the world today as we go forward. Nga mihi e kara! :) :)

  • @kino81
    @kino81 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good stuff matua

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Cheers Kino....did you notice Marupō and his team from Pākaraka...

    • @kino81
      @kino81 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger yes

  • @khzn9309
    @khzn9309 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    2meke Kiwi i remember the day Don Stafford and all of Te Arawa invited Ngapuhi 2 Ohinemotu Marae as it was Te Arawa time 2 speak 4 the 1st time of this very sad & heartfelt historical event...i am of Ngapuhi decent & I kid u not i wasn't suppose 2b there at all...we arrived a day B4 the invitation it was very windy wild in fact & the 1st time i saw waves big 2 on Rotorua...this the 1st Tohu. The next day wind was still blowing non stop but not as wild as i & my companions (Ngawha Corrections) were awaitin outside Ohinemotu 4 our Kaumatua Kuia & Whanz 2 arrive on buses..when they arrived Head Kaikaranga called 4 Ngapuhi Manuhiri thus Powhiri begun as we approached the Marae wind blowing still when the very last of us who was behind me entered inside the Sacred Tupuna Whare we all paused at the entrance BCOS our Kaumatua were looking back outside & notice the wind had stopped suddenly Ae 2nd Tohu...during all the proceedings & Mihi there were alot of Sacred Taonga being revealed starting with Don Staffords 1st book published WILD WIND FROM THE NORTH then Te Arawa unfolded a very TAPU MERE that was present on that day and finally High Officials from England who attended also brought with them 2 Original oil paintings 1 of Hongi Hika and Waikato & the other a Rangatira Te Wharepapa...so yeah Whanz u can imagine mind blowing stuff that we were all feeling & experiencing from WAIRUA on this day harrd....finally when we finished Whakanoa in the Wharekai and all my Ngapuhi Whanau bid farewell with all our Te Arawa Whanau with much ArohaWairua we got into our vehicles & left north bound 4 home...wen on route we got 2 Ngongotaha & the bus ahead of us stop..so we stop & got out with our Kaumatua & Kuia 2gether we all looked acrossed the calm waters of Rotorua...& Aue we were blessed by the last Tohu of the Day by a Beautiful Bright RAINBOW standing directly above MOKOIA ISLAND...i swear Whanz I've never been moved like that ever...b4 or after...so 2 me that Day 2 is a DAY I WILL REMEMBER 4EVA & NEVA 4GET HAARD. Tihei Mauri Ora. ERU aka KHZN(cousin) xxxxNga Hau E Wha xxxx

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Wow, what a moving visit to Ohinemutu, certainly an event that would send shivers down your spine and make hair stand on end. What year did this happen, Don's been gone a few years now.
      Tomorrow I will be heading off for the 200th commemoration of Mokoia and Hongi taking it. We will be meeting at Kauae cemetery where Don is buried, and paying our respects, then over to Ohinemutu and paying our respects there, particularly to Gilbert Mair.
      That mere you took to Rotorua would have witnessed some momentous events, if only such items could talk.
      We will be visiting the site where Hongi's canoes left the Pongakawa, man I'm looking forward to that.
      I enjoyed your korero, cheers!

    • @khzn9309
      @khzn9309 ปีที่แล้ว

      Tena koe@@kiwicodger ooh u got me thinking what year I think 2006 his book was small in size and it had the photos of the oil paintings that came with the English Officials I still have the books which Don Stafford personally autographed at the time and the Mere was from Te Arawa Iwi not sure which hapu or Chief it belonged 2 but they mentioned the name of it but it was 2 tapu 4 i 2 remember....but all in all Uncle Kiwi Codger I love ur docos and appreciate all the mahi that u put into all ur research and delivery..2 me u r another Don Stafford Tena koe e Rangatira..all the best 4 2mrow would love 2b there haard Arohamai🙏❤️🙏

  • @brynnmccauley5117
    @brynnmccauley5117 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Tena koe kiwi codger, thoroughly enjoyed this series, and eagerly await your next installments on the musket wars and beyond.

  • @MozziTāne
    @MozziTāne 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks again this episode was full of different events.

  • @njssmythe
    @njssmythe 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another enjoyable episode

  • @sammyold4708
    @sammyold4708 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome. Thanks

  • @davemcivor9711
    @davemcivor9711 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Compelling viewing. Thanks very much

  • @vwxyz0002
    @vwxyz0002 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Eleven out of ten. Great stuff.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You're a good man Onslow!

  • @mystik.mermayde.aotearoa
    @mystik.mermayde.aotearoa หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've just listened to these 3 episodes with great interest, ending in pure horror, distress and revulsion 🫣😠😬 My tūpuna were on Mokoia during this attack, and my tupuna kuia was one of those taken up north by Hongi's ope.
    Thankfully she returned after many years away, settled back here at Maketū and was eventually buried with her father, who was one of the chiefs, on Mokoia.
    We've never known what happened to her in Northland, but this episode gives us an idea of what may have been a very nasty fate. I hope she was treated well as a woman of status, and not a slave. I feel very sad pondering this 😥 Moe mai rā, e kui 🙏

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      This may be of some consolation but many women and men of rank were treated reasonably as there was always the chance of exchanging them for some peace or prisoner settlements. Iwi back then tried to always maintain a plan B....The release of prisoners/slaves started after 1840 when the British outlawed slavery and many returned to their old lands. They were always somewhat tainted by their captive/slave experience that they had led. Times were hard back then, very hard.

    • @mystik.mermayde.aotearoa
      @mystik.mermayde.aotearoa หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@kiwicodgerThank you for that 🙏 We don't know how old she was at the time she was taken. Some say she may have only been a very small child. So my concern watching your video is that she may not have been old enough to be a woman of rank, and instead was a child slave. I guess we'll never know, but I just said a karakia for her after watching your video. That her soul is realised from any pain and suffering she may have endured back then 🙏 What horrific times they lived in 😰😳🤯

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@mystik.mermayde.aotearoa Breeding was a big thing back then, your lineage and status was known. You did not develop status, you were born with it. There were exceptions of course but social structure was well defined. Men could rise through their warrior prowess, it was more difficult for women, but they had their ways as well.

  • @joeyclark3995
    @joeyclark3995 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice work mate!

  • @1lionconqueror
    @1lionconqueror ปีที่แล้ว +1

    One tomahawked like button for you sir. Brutal story, for the small part of the whole story. Epic tale nonetheless, thank you for that.

  • @ricklaw7633
    @ricklaw7633 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you so much for all the work you put into telling the History of Aotearoa my friend. Well done.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Cheers Rick, rather humble compared to your work on facebook. Many thanks for plugging my episodes :)

    • @ricklaw7633
      @ricklaw7633 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger now we have all three of your episodes done I am linking them all together in a post and sending to 21,000 members tomorrow :) I would be honored to have you on my site along with your brother and he has great respect in Maoridom.

  • @DRE-HRUYAN
    @DRE-HRUYAN ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I come from the direct line of rahiri, and kupe!

  • @mjfirthau
    @mjfirthau 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’ve been to Mokoia island several times and never realised at the time that all this had gone on beneath my feet ! I’ve met Don Stafford at his house on lake Okareka when I was working for the pmg there ! Wasn’t he also a WW2 spitfire pilot ?

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I never got to meet Don, which would have been amazing. Not sure about his history and being a pilot. When you study NZ History there is something amazing that has happened in almost every area. I cannot drive over the Mangere Bridge without looking east to Otahuhu and imagine Hongi's fleet being portaged there then sailing down the Manukau to Waiuku for his invasion of the Waikato.

  • @richardspivey5523
    @richardspivey5523 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wonderful series bringing the Musket wars and the locations to life, especially for someone like me who being from Yorkshire has little prior knowledge of Aotearoa history and geography.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Cheers Richard, a bit off the beaten track for you no doubt, glad you enjoyed it...fancy that KC, world famous in Yorkshire ...lol

    • @richardspivey5523
      @richardspivey5523 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger Not quite as far off the beaten track as it seems. My interest was sparked when we visited New Zealand for the wedding of my wife's daughter. Hopefully we will be visiting them again soon. Meanwhile I am looking forward to the next episode of this fascinating era of Aotearoa history.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Its great that the world and NZ are open again for travel. I will be jumping to 1842 and the first judicial hanging in NZ, which is a fascinating story with twists and turns...

  • @tommcg7564
    @tommcg7564 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It is said Te Kuruotemarama did not cry or whimper when he was tortured. He was a true warrior! One of the best.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Not showing pain would have helped him maintain some mana.

    • @tommcg7564
      @tommcg7564 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger indeed. To smile before being killed was seen as good character.

  • @enacollings-uh5xt
    @enacollings-uh5xt ปีที่แล้ว

    Yep ,sounds like those vicious Ngapuhi , we still hate them to this day .

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Ya gotta move on girl...after all, it was exactly 200 years ago.

  • @tommcg7564
    @tommcg7564 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hongi was not happy with Te Wera going behind his back to negotiate a peace. As the story goes, Hongi promised to fire (wera, a pun on his name) his pā when they got home. Te Wera never returned home…

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Don Stafford doesn't go into this much in the book except to say that Hongi let the others do much of the talking and reaching the consensus. He does say that he gave Hikairo his Marion steel helmet... possibly there was an exchange of a dog cloak as one of the poems written mentions coming under the protection of it.

    • @tommcg7564
      @tommcg7564 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger I got this info from this program of Hongi Hika which aired two months ago. It is the ngapuhi taitokerau version of events th-cam.com/video/ZAQrahvMzsA/w-d-xo.html

  • @SonilahiG676
    @SonilahiG676 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm carving while listening 🎧 to this it's like a movie 🎥 in my head can we get someone to actually make a movie of this? With all differences aside..

  • @reflectingtrees6173
    @reflectingtrees6173 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Incompetent war plan from my whanau. A 100 years to late for that strategy.
    Ngāpuhi got tapu for that though, until the end of time.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I wonder what they would have done if they had known that Hongi was going to bring his canoes to Rotorua.
      Well, its been 199 years since the battle, perhaps its time to move on....forgive but not forget...

    • @reflectingtrees6173
      @reflectingtrees6173 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Only Christians forgive my friend and I'm not one of them.
      Waka across land is not surprising to me as our stories of Te Arawa waka being haul over land.
      Lake Rotorua always will have a Taniwha in it to remember our tipuna.

  • @stevereid1169
    @stevereid1169 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    E te iwi Māori if these accounts are true do you think some of our modern day ills are because of such barbaric behaviour or do we continue to blame colonisation only?

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      None of us were living 200 years ago, we are all living in the now. Each of us needs to take responsiblility for our circumstances and then strive to make a good life for ourselves and our families. The answer always has been and always will be within.

    • @stevereid1169
      @stevereid1169 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@kiwicodger I agree with you and I knew those would be your views. It is to our Māori people I addressed the question simply to make them think. To look at our history and realise we have so much today compared to then. And not to be dupped by todays woke victim narrative!

  • @authorityauthors4799
    @authorityauthors4799 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi, I’m really loving learning about Hongi Hika through these videos … I’ve emailed you with a request for help in some research about his intersection with Taranaki and a particular point of interest there… I am seeking assistance with a writing project… please can we connect directly about this. Nga Mihi… Dixie

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sure, my email is kiwicodger@gmail.com.