Hi, I'm the guy who debunked the "Soviet steel" myth by pointing out (through research in the US State Department's publicly accessible archives) that: 1. The Soviet Union didn't have enough steel at its hands to pay the Italians with it; 2. The Italian government was against such a deal anyway, because it would further derail the Italy-USSR trade balance, which was already favoring the Soviet side as it was; 3. Let's entertain the "yeah, there's no evidence that a deal of this kind was ever struck, but this doesn't mean they didn't reach such an agreement" crowd. OK then! Even if such a deal had ever been in place, any metallurgist will tell you that you can recycle steel even from shipwrecks and make excellent alloys with it; 4. Finally, even if such a deal had ever been in place, Alfa Romeo, which was NOT part of the Fiat Group, was under no obligation to use it, and Fiat were under no obligation to offer it to them. Here's my piece for Driven To Write where these things are pointed out - it's the third part of my series on the diplomacy and politics behind the founding of the VAZ factory: driventowrite.com/2022/05/17/vaz-diplomacy-politics-and-urban-legends-part-3/ And finally... I'd like to point out that a certain Mr Martin Buckley had everyone believe that De Gaulle could both have already spent two years pining for the fjords and somehow veto Citroën-Fiat joint ventures. Oh well, that's car "journalism" for you.
Many thanks for this Konstantinos - I read your very interesting article a while ago but couldn't find it again to cite it in more detail for the video. I'm a big fan of DrivenToWrite, the best car blog by miles. Apologies for the delay in getting your comment posted - it was held for review because of the link and I got behind with the reviewing. I've now pinned it, as various commenters are _still_ saying we're wrong.
One more fact: anybody who has lived in Russia will tell you that Russian roads are ten (10) times worse for making cars rust because of the snow, ice and grit that is used on the roads 6 months a year. Russian cars need to be much more rust-proof than others, or they would rot within a year. AvtoVAZ used thicker steel on Ladas (called Zhiguli in Russia) than on the original Fiats.
@@StarHorseLover2012 I seem to recall that an 1980 X reg Skoda Estelle I owned in early 90's had a thickness of metal in the body panels that I have not come across since on any other car.
I owned one of the last HPE VX 1985. It was my everyday driver for 13 years. Being a late one has galvanising so minimal rust. Made a superb tow car. The supercharger gave masses of torque. Bought with 160,000km on it and sold with 320,000km. It was still going strong.
In Australia we had the same 'Trial by Media' with certain makes of vehicles. Falsehoods and untruths running rampant in the search for an Emmy Award and justification for their own existence. Thank you for this enlightening video.
I would just like to say that back in the day my wife and I each had Beta saloons and then she went on to have an HPE. We loved all three, all were reliable and we had no rust issues. We never understood where the bad reputation came from but these cars certainly didn't deserve the reputation that they were landed with.
I had a Monte Carlo and a Beta coupe. Have had a lot of cars but I still think they were my favorites, very underrated. Great fun, Italian character, and timeless handsome design
I had a work mate who bought a saloon. While parked in the works car park, someone driving with their leg in plaster rear ended it! He kept it a while then flogged it to some dodgy bloke. A week later he was knocked out of bed at 3 in the morning by the police as he was still shown as the owner. It had been found in a canal (lights still on) after being used as a get-a-way car! It WAS fast! 2.0(?)ltr twin cam twin Dellortos!
Thank you for standing up for the Lancia Beta! They didn’t sell too well over here in the USA, but every once in awhile, I’ll see one advertised online. Haven’t seen one in the wild in at least 20 years, though.
As a young boy around 9 my neighbour got a black one. Around 83 i was amazed at this sports car my neighbour took me for a ride ..unfourtunalty it was rotted away before i was a teenager.
My aunt had a Berlina back in the day. I remember driving through Texas in August. The air conditioning was pathetic and the engine was spinning at over 4,000 RPM trying to keep up with traffic. It had an endless stream of mechanical and electrical problems and rust showed up within 18 months of her buying it. She eventually moved to Wisconsin and his car did not like cold weather at all often becoming difficult if not impossible to start. The rust accelerated exponentially due to Wisconsin's salted winter roads. But if you ask her today she'll look back through rose colored glasses and remember it fondly.
There's still one model in the Lancia range, isn't there (the Ypsilon)? 🙂 But FIAT don't seem to have enough money to develop a full range of cars for FIAT or Alfa Romeo themselves (no Giulietta replacement, no Punto replacement etc), let alone for Lancia as well. For whatever reason, a new FCA product is more likely to be badged or rebadged as a Dodge these days, e.g., the Dodge Dart compact sedan (also sold as the Fiat Viaggio) or the Dodge Hornet CUV, the rebadged Alfa Romeo Tonale. There was also the Chrysler 200 that was discontinued like the Dart. Unfortunately I think FIAT Chrysler have too many brands, rather than not enough brands. Already Alfa Romeo are prohibited by FIAT from competing against Maserati in the large luxury sedan or large luxury SUV market for example. Similarly, FIAT probably don't want Lancia to compete against Alfa Romeo, since they are already struggling to grow Alfa Romeo sales as it is (AFAIK, particularly in North America), let alone try to market and grow another brand.
@TassieLorenzo FCA is no more, having merged with PSA (Peugeot-Citroën) to become Stellantis, which is allowing each of their many marques, including Lancia, a decade to make a business case for their continued survival. Despite having only a single remaining model sold only in Italy, the Ypsilon, Lancia has still outsold all Alfa Romeo models across all of Europe combined. Lancia apparently will be teamed up with DS and Alfa Romeo as the premium marques in Stellantis' portfolio.
A great summary of the Betas and their U.K. story. My appreciation of the video, was of how well you did this. My appreciation of the cars is fuelled by my ownership in the 80s of: a HPE, a Coupe and a Monte Carlo.
I should add that a few condemned Betas had a brief reprieve. When I moved to Newbury in 1984/5 I struck up a friendship with a guy who lived in Hermitage up the road. I think his name was Ian Walker and he ran a racing school - he later died in a plane crash if memory serves. He was a Lancia fan and had a couple of the early Martini striped Deltas from Lancia. He had acquired two scrap Betas 'back door' en route to Halletts. One was a dark brown 2000 saloon, one a light blue Coupe. He has a very nice red Spyder and needed a rear 3/4 window but Lancia could not supply one. The 2000 saloon was bodily good but needed the sub mounts doing - I gave up before I even started as it would prove impossible to register it again due to a COD. Pity - it would have been a nice car for 50 quid and a weekend of welding!😂
I remember reading the Autocar road test of a Beta 2000 Berlina when they first came out. They liked it. It was technically advanced, refined, handled and rode well, and was fairly fast for a saloon car. Really, it was a prototypical modern fwd car.
Dad had a Beta Coupé, he didn't think it rusted any more quickly than any other car of the era. A cost of rust proof underneath and it lasted him 2 years before being sold on. The only issue Dad remembered was how hard it was to sell on afterwards in the early 80s, the damage to the car's reputation having been done by that stage.
Interesting review , I recall a colleague's husband was service manager at an upmarket local garage that became a Lancia franchise and were already Rolls-Royce dealers.He had use of an HPE in a mimosa yellow ( SVE 492S ) and often rode in it and it was a particularly brisk and pleasant car with what I considered at the time the most ' drop-dead ' gorgeous looks !.Very sadly , the awful publicity at the time affected their sales and a wonderful long-existing garage with a superb service reputation was sent into receivership.
Martin, congratulations on another gem of a video 👌🏼👏🏼😀 Very well researched and full of passion for these wonderful motorcars. Excellent stuff, can't wait for the road test. And congratulations on the 3000 subs too 🎉
I did my apprenticeship at a alpha , fiat and lancia dealer in Sydney Australia in the 70s and one thing common about the Italian cars of that era was rust enough that at least 1in 10 were to rusty to be put on the road ie put fingers through floor pan and sills and rotten pillars . The other big problem was kleber tyres they often had catastrophic failure before they even left the showroom floor . I rolled a sud 3 times going around a corner at about 50kmh . Have to give lancia credit for how easy they were to work on and reliability just a pity about the rust . We only got the beta coupe , HPE and the 4 door beta here in Oz
Brilliant video - I really enjoyed that - thanks. The Beta HPEs, cabriolets and coupes do it for me - especially the late Volumex models. I completely agree with you on the rust issue - Vauxhall FE Victor front wings for example were almost service items, lasting no more than 2 years, and 70s Datsuns would happily fizz away in drizzle. The only thing you didn’t mention was dreadful consumer programme That’s Life, who seemed to have it in for Lancia, and who ran more than one piece about the recall scheme. As you rightly said, no one cared to mention the industry leading 6 yr anti-corrosion warranty, or the tie in with SAAB, who brought their expertise in rust prevention to the Italian company. At least Top Gear (under Clarkson) has always had good things to say about Lancia, for which I applaud them! Finally, the 037 is an absolute masterpiece of a car!!!
Glad you enjoyed it Simon! Completely agree. You’re absolutely right about That’s Life and I did originally plan to mention that too, but I cut it out of the final edit for too much swearing 😬
My dad loved his Lancia, the rust was no worse than any other car of the period. We lived near the sea which was probably a factor. The biggest issue was the gearbox it failed on the way back from the Alps, it was all replaced free of charge. He ran that car until it was no longer economical to keep on the road. It was comfortable and and fast. Lancia always made good cars.
Well documented except concerning the Russian recycled war fleet steel which was used to build italian cars in the 80/90's and IS the reason why cars rusted away. Condensation evaporates in warm climates. Anyway. I lived and drove in these cars in Italy at the time - great fun by the way - and YES they were made with poorly treated Russian steel that rusted. Panels simply started blistering under the paint. MANY recalls were being made. Interesting to note that although the recall did NOT concern the Beta HPE; rust is why the car HE had a down payment on, failed it's MOT. LOL. More "condensation" 25 years on I suppose .....
Loved the video and I agree 100%! Betas were lovely little cars. My dad had one whom he bought new in '79 and I am told it is still driving around in Palermo (Sicily)today. I'd love to get one myself but here in Australia they are very hard to come by.... I should probably follow your suggestion and import one in the UK.
I had a 2.0litre HPE in the early 80s , a really comfortable car with a really smooth engine. I would have appreciated it a lot more now with its dash board full of gauges.
1981 Venezia. I remember the Lancia Beta ad on a billboard in one of the harbours of old town. It's photographed by my Dad and kept in the family album.
We had a two litre Beta sedan, very comfortable and spacious but what struck me was the dynamics, it was just fun to drive and so stable, it went where you pointed it and that was it.
Thank you so much for this video. In the mid 80's I was sales manager at Portman Garages in George Street, it was a real blast to see the showroom. A lot of what you say is true but by the mid 80's the rust problem was caused by cars being stored for a very long time on airfields, sometimes we delivered new cars with rust bubbles on the wings, but there were compensations. The factory made a batch of 1600 Mk3 saloons by mistake and we sold them at huge discounts, £1,500 on the road, less than a Metro at the time. I won't admit just how huge our profits were! Once again thank you.
I wondered why we in New Zealand ended up with so many 1600 versions of the Mk3 Berlinas when our market was usually supplied with the best specced versions. We also ended up with a a pile of HPE 2 litre automatics which were sold to mainly 2nd hand car dealers who promptly marked them up and onsold them to the public. Rust was never an issue in New Zealand.
Back in the late 70s I worked for a company supplying giant timing displays for horse shows etc and for a while Lancia sponsored them, as well as plastering them with Lancia branding they gave us some Berlinas for towing the units about, they were pretty ugly but drove beautifully and were very luxurious for the day. I really enjoyed driving them around for the couple of years we had them. My boss managed to get an HPE out of them too, that was fun to drive.
My father bought a Beta Berlina 2000 new back in 1979 when I was 5, he had Tuff Kote Dinol rust treatment applied from new and kept it till 1983 when it had covered just shy of 50k miles. He had no major issues with the car, there were no visible signs of rust when he sold it. Yes it was garaged and looked after very well but my father has only fond memories of the car. He sold it privately to a local chap and we saw it regularly in use till the late 1980s, I can still remember the reg number, RCK 182T, bought from Grosvenor Motors in Preston. Happy Days
I owned a blue HPE 2000 in 1983. Absolutely beautiful car. Unfortunately it did rust badly and a local VW garage part exchanged it for a new Polo. They gave me good money.
Fantastic video about a fantastic range of cars. My dad had a 1300 Berlina that was bought back by Lancia. It allowed dad to upgrade to a 1600. I could tell many a story about those two cars which despite not being perfect were great and which all this time later has still left me with a Lancia itch I'd still like to scratch.
These beta cars are extremely unreliable with all sorts of problems due to sub standard components. I guess they don’t properly cure rubber or heat treat steel. Electrical connections always find way to go haywire. Plastic lever break at most critical way. I still remember manually operated window regulator were made of some tiny soft metal gear with perhaps 10 teeth that moves steel spring like cable mechanism up and down. These gear teeth tend to round off easily and won’t engage to move window at all. Even though the parts are extremely expensive they were impossible to find even in its days!!! I had one in Southern California so rust or Russian steel crap wasn’t an issue.
Saw a reply mentioning window regulators. I had similar problem. Rebuilt a couple of damaged units to make one good regulator. Windows required very "hard winding" due to different curvitures of door and window frames. Mounted my new rebuilt regulator with drilled out holes in the metal window frame using 10-32 screws and "nylok " nuts allowing a small amount of "slop". Window winding then required much less effort and still sealed properly. Never had a problem after that. Performed same modification on both coupes I owned.
Fiat headquarters in Frankfurt basically had no used car lot. All Lancia trade-ins were kicked out as fast as possible. I bought a few very cheap cars there during the 80's.
Fantastic video and very well written. I only saw a handful of these in my lifetime because the Coupe was more popular in Portugal. Oh, and congratulations for the 3k mark. Well deserved!
Great review and I loved the Beta range. My dad was going for a Beta HPE but saw and bought an Alfa GTV 2.0, very beautiful but not the nicest gearbox, often wondered hoe the HPE would have been to drive. Probably more practical. Always loved Lancia and hope Stellantis will resurrect the marque.
Brother had a black Y plate HPE ,looked like a black hearse specifically for mafia funerals.. Lovely motor and the twin cam was very reliable in the whole ,always on the hunt for a Volumex but like rocking horse shit…
Great video, my old man was a mechanic and I remember as a kid growing up in the 80s him telling me the engine falling out story, and how bad they rust....but didn't warn me about Ford's and how they rust, so I bought a bunch of Capri's, and some of those were truly crap.
In 1984 I bought a 78 HPE. I loved the performance and quirky styling, being a serial Capri owner before that. In 1985 I took it to Germany on military posting where it failed its first BFG test (softer equivalent of the MoT) due to extensive and terminal body rot. I stripped out the interior and used it for my first ever venture into motorsport - rally-cross. In my first race meeting it got me a third-in-class trophy, mainly thanks to the amazing engine, but that race meeting caused the corroded front chassis members to collapse and I had to scrap it. Not all of it went in the bin. I used the air horns and the windscreen wash system (a plastic bag with a pump in it, as I recall) in a Dutton kit car that I started building later that year.
I was a apprentice at the company in the early 80s that imported Lancia cars into the UK and also that collected all the buy backs, not just simple recall these cars were all scraped, at a huge cost to the Company, our company started to rust proof all new Lancia cars but there name was finished.I saw all the cars with there subframes hanging out, its not a myth.
In 1983 I was a director of Suzuki’s British importer. I watched warranty very closely (even though Suzuki Japan covered our costs). The average warranty cost per car sold was around £3 (parts and labour) at 1983 values. The claim rate was 25%. In other words, 3 out of 4 owners never needed to make a claim at all. I was then seconded to Lancar, a sister company about to start UK import and distribution of Lancia cars. Imagine my shock when Fiat (Turin), with whom I was negotiating aftersales costs, said that Lancar must bear the warranty costs themselves. What supreme confidence in their own product. After dribbling out misleading figures of their own warranty costs, we reluctantly agreed. And the truth? The warranty cost of Lancia cars was at least £30 per unit sold if you ignored the Gamma model which on account of its rotten engine was ten-fold more than the Betas. The claim rate was well over 100%. Yes, every single Lancia owner (and more), submitted a warranty claim. And the Gamma's engine really did fall down onto the road. During my 3-4 years with Lancar, I naturally drove Lancia company cars. The car with the best handling, braking and overall performance was the Delta HF Turbo, which was a nose ahead of a red Lancia Beta Coupe Volumex. Brilliant, standout, cars. The worst company car I had was the Gamma that was completely unreliable (I must have had 3 or 4). Memorably, the only board meeting I ever missed was when the Gamma's auto gearbox failed in Portman Square. By the way, the cause of Lancia's stupendously high warranty costs was their godawful, completely unreliable electrics - especially in the Beta Trevi.
I remember how popular they were in the 70s and a particular family friend had several of them. The 4 door failed its MOT when only a few years old and he swapped it for an HPE that was in much better shape and he had a Targa topped one too I seem to remember.. But that also succumbed to rust after a few short years. But so did so many cars in those days. I remember going to the local scrap yard for parts for my 1958 Morris Minor in the late 70s and realising that there were loads of 10 year old Vauxhalls, Fords, Fiats and others all in dreadful states of rust while my Morris was rust-free and twice their age. But we lived only 20 mins from the coast and, in those days, people would regularly drive onto beaches - that didn't help. Apart from the real and imagined rust, the Beta had a great reputation as a real driver's car.
Great report. I have a Lancia Bata HPE and it's beautiful, sounds great, had really handles. Only one rust place near the windshield. I had it for years and would never sell it.
Absolutely first rate piece Sir!!! Got to add that this is as balanced an assessment of any car related issue that I've watched on UToob . More of the same please!!!
First time viewer here. I must admit I enjoy the way you deliver your thoughts a lot - with clarity and a modicum of humour instead of flamboyance and bloated showmanship. Good work! Subscriber count going +1 :)
Agree with your honest assessment. Excellent cars (when working). I bought an HPE ie in 1989. It was an automatic (Made by AP and loosely based on the Austin Maxi auto box- yes really!) Needless to say it packed up so i converted it to manual in 1993. Sold in 1998 - XCW500Y, where are you now?
I bet a similar year ford wasn't as inspiring as this. Fiat and Ford had so many great moments, as always I felt more passion for the Alfa. Thanks for reminding us how quirky is not a bad thing!
Well said! I’m a 1970s Fiat man but lots of why you say about the Beta is cross applicable. Very pleased that you, too, are helping to debunk the Russian steel fallacy / bollock rot nonsense; it’s simply not true, as Matteo of Roadster Life has also explained. I’m pleased to have stumbled over your channel and will be adding you to my subs list. Cheers. Uppermiddlepetrolhead.
At last , a proper insight to the Beta and its history. You could have added the The Daily Mirror “ had it in” for foreign manufacturers anyway, because they disagreed with the amount of imports and the fact the trade tax levy on imported goods was lifted after we joined the common market. so someone was going to “Get It” , it just happened to be Lancia. The Beta was and is , an excellent car with a suspension which both Ford and Toyota admitted to using as an example when introducing new models in the early 1990 s, some 20 years after the Beta came out.
i had 2 Lancias in the 80s. Trevi 2000 auto in gold bought (NRD 614X) and Beta Spyder 2000 in blue (NMG 853X) - where are they now ? The Trevi had the most fantastic dashboard and the Spyder was a great drive. We didn't have cameras to hand in those days so I have very few pictures of either but I do recall reversing out of a drive with the drivers door open to see out because of the murky and split plastic window on the spyder . . . I hit the gate post and the door folded forwards on me.... that would be called a 'FAIL' now but then it was just a typical daily hazard back then !
I can’t believe I made a Lancia Beta/Trevi video and didn’t mention THAT dashboard! I even have some film of it too. Ah well, something to save for another day.
I had some experience driving a then 8 year old 1976 Lancia B 2000 saloon, and for a mid-seventies car it drove extremely well. And it was practically rust-free. Nordic spec Lancias had good rust protection, if only you took care to renew it every 2-3 years.
Well said... I have been an Italian car lover for many years and owned quite a few from Fiat & Alfa, mainly Alfasud`s, i worked as a car body repairer at an Austin/Rover dealership from the mid 1970`s... back then all cars rusted badly! but today many people see their favorite brands, especially old Ford`s through rose tinted glasses..
I recently bought a 1984 HPE Volumex, 2 owners from new and no rust issue. It's a joy to drive thanks to its chassis and supercharger. Now I can work on my 78 Gamma Coupe sorting all the issues that plagued that rather excellent car.
At age 8 I got my first pair of glasses and there was a maroon Beta Berlina in the optometrist's parking lot, identical to the one in the film except for LHD and Federal bumpers. At the time my dad had a '79 C-10 that rusted like it was an Olympic sport.
Dad bought a beta coupe back in the mid seventies, went from a lotus Cortina mk2 to the Lancia, thinking back it seemed a fairly modern car with the transverse engine layout, quite nicely finished inside too, sadly he passed away before the dreaded rust problem reared its head, the Cortina is one of the lucky survivors and worth a fortune, the Lancia is dead and buried a long time ago.
I remember as a boy the headlines and now working in the automotive industry the PR disaster it must have been for them.. almost the same as the Nissan Almera getting one star crossed through…what a morning in the office that was….
I’d forgotten about that Almera story - yes, a nightmare. It all started with a relentless campaign in the Daily Mirror, so I dug deep to see if Robert Maxwell (DM owner) and Gerald Ronson (owner of Lancar, UK Lancia importer) were enemies - but no, they were good mates, both then and later. Most odd.
Nice to see that gathering of the almost-forgotten (in the States) Lancia Beta series! As a young lad of 17 (living in Australia at the time), the Monte Carlo/Scorpion was my favorite of the new cars of the time (ca. 1975); the Alfa Alfetta GT hatch and the Datsun 260-Z being others I fancied...Nice review, and looking forward to the drive test! How's the Aerodeck going?
Glad you enjoyed it! I’m planning to do some more metalwork on the Aerodeck this weekend - the day job has been getting in the way quite badly for the last few months but is quiet again now.
I had a beta HPE 2000ie in the early 80s. Was my company car for driving in London and home to Essex. It went alright, no real issues apart from the rear side window popping once and the clutch being rather heavy. Mine was red and still newish back then so no rust. Had it for 2 years and chopped it in for an xr3i.
Hi Thanks for the informative vid .I bought a second hand beta in the late seventies loved it ,it was a yellow four door as in your vid ,it had Weber carbs fitted and really went well,I never had any problem with the engine panel but where previous owner had parked it on a grass centred driveway during his ownership the inner sills and floor pan was in a poor state and I had to do a lot of welding
My first car was a 6 year old renault 16... It lasted 12 months before dissolving. Undaunted, my second car was a beautiful dark blue Trevi with space age interior... Sold it to an Alfa owning friend a couple of years later... No rust issues... Just smiles!
My dad a Lancia Beta in the eighties. The car did not have any major issues. I learned to drive stick on my dad's Lancia. The exhaust sound was very unique and the car was very comfortable. After few minor issues, and the fact we lived in SE Asia where Lancia parts were hard to come by, my dad ended up trading the Lancia for a mint Peugeot 504, which was another beautiful car.
Nissan Navara pick ups (of which there are 1000's) suffer huge chassis rot problems. Spanish built ones had no rust protection on their woefully thin chassis which results in catastrophic failiure in only a few years. Nissan have done their best to cover this up and have been secretly buying back vehicles on a massive scale. i have personal eperience when my best friend bought a rotten one (he paid £9000 for it) it's chassis was rotten. After researching he took it to Nissan who said it was 'fine' and gave him the short shift. At the next MOT it was given a red ticket so he took pictures and sent the details to Nissan, they offered him £9000 for it on condition he sign a non disclosure agreement and had it picked up. I believe there is a picture of a field near a docks (Southampton?) full of used Navaras being shipped to Africa. So, these problems still exist but are handled in a different and better way than Lancia (probably due to Lancias experience) and if you're in the market for a Navara make sure it isn't Spanish built and do your research first...and check the chassis and cross members at the rear.
Thank you for putting this video out there, for the longest time I believed all the stories about these cars, but it turns out I had been mislead the whole time, I now look at these cars in a more positive light.
Well, I remember a German car magazine of the time that compared the 2 novelties of the market, Beta and BMW 5 Series, commenting that BMW would have to take advantage of some aspects of the Beta to be up to it.
I had a friend who had one of these. He had the classic voltage regulator failure. The instrument and dash lights would get brighter and brighter until there was a strong smell of burning !
UNBELIEVABLE! I bought my Beta HPE in 1996. it is a 1978 first series 1600 cc. I had such a fun with her around all Italy. The "doppio corpo" Weber, if well calibrated used to give a sort of turbo push, the 4 disk brakes system was excellent, as was the suspension scheme. And if you want to play there is a real trumpet!!!!😄😄😄 Can't believe there's a you tube channel with Lancia Beta lover!
The reporter actually said it was a public relations exercise to cover up the rust problem and not a public relations campaign as stated so yes it can be both! Lancias don’t have a rust problem but if you are restoring the metalwork simply use Weetabix and spray it silver. I find this replicates the original metal work perfectly.
I had a HPE 2.0 litre brand new from The Chequered Flag in Chiswick in 1982. It was superb and the only fault in 7 years was a defective multipin plug.. It was just after all the rust troubles and Lancia had taken steps to remedy it. I had a look behind the door cards and there was more than ample coating of something that looked like Zeibard? treatment. I never saw a spot of rust unlike the MGB that preceded it. It cost about 7k and next to it when I picked it up was a lovely DB6 for 10k. Thanks for a good video. Regards Edward
My 2nd car I owned at 17 yrs old was a Beta Coupe , I loved that car and then after my subframe gave out it was dead ! I did crave a HPE or the Beta VX but the after my coupe then moved me to Alfa and had seven of them right up to my Brera . Lancia to me are one of my favourite marques and as we know one of the most successful car makers to this day .
Superbly written, sounded like the people who wrote 'Blackadder' had written it (not the series 1 writers, they should still be in prison). Brilliant video, made me laugh about 8 times so thanks. That grey coupe at the end was lovely.
Series 1 written by Rowan Atkinson and Richard Curtis, 2 to 4 by Ben Elton and Richard Curtis . If Atkinson and Curtis were still in prison, would series 2 to 4 still be so good?
Oh, I do like it when unsupported news items are outed as being as flimsy as a Lancia's engine mount...omg, I'm at it now!!! Great vid and many thanks.
I had a 1978 Lancia Beta Coupe 1800 USA Spec and I loved it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could spin the front wheels. I put a carburetor kit on and headers and Monza flow through exhaust all from Bayless Racing in Florida (at that time) and removed the air pump and belt as this model year did not have a catalytic converter I loved that car! Steering on USA Spec was power assist. It only came into play when parking and at low speeds. Mine also had a sunroof which was extremely easy to operate. Mine had no rust at all. I bought it used in 1981. It had 33k miles on it. Silver with double red pin stripes. TOP GEAR is the show that really pooped on this car.
Lovely cars but the tin worm was a real and genuine concern, poorly handled. I think That's Life really did the bad damage though in what now be a slanderous case. I knew a gentleman who had his bright red 2.0 Beta Saloon condemned under a recall at Auto Yachts Gillingham, the then LANCHEEAH DEALER at just over 18 months old with rotten Cross member to body mounts and much all around it, he finally found out why it clunked taking up drive😀.....he wasn't a vet and his engine didn't fall out.😉 The recall was either a redesigned box section welded into place if possible OR a buy back but, such was the press most opted for the buy back option. My friends Beta at 18 months was unfortunately too far gone. Yet I bought a 1981 when 8 years old that was fine. The later ones had far better build. It should be noted that the Beta Saloon rot problem was a global issue. Russian steel myth....I don't think anyone ever got to the source of this completely untrue rumour....Italy produced much of the steel for many OEMs, not just the FIAT Group....this myth spread to VAG too. Just simple poor corrosion protection and even poorer panel edge finishing, which haunted Daimler in the 90s to the surprise of many. My 'old Grali is my favorite car I've owned.
Correct. If the car wasn't bad it could be repaired - basically a clean up and rustproofing the sub mounts but any holes meant it had to be condemned. Later Betas from '81 ish onwards (when the Trevi arrived) were vastly better - part galvanising, front arch liners and wax injection. Sadly, the Delta took up the slack by being another rust bucket - even the roof used to rot on those.
True story - while living in Osaka Japan back in 2012, I was walking out of the McDonalds on Mido-Suji, right across from Dotonbori Bridge, and spotted something striking, low and red. At first I thought it was a Ferrari 328, so I snapped my trust iPhone 4 out in camera mode. Imagine my surprise when an 037 Stradale drove by, and I actually snapped the spot! It, along with many others from my stay in Japan, are memories that will last a lifetime.
Bloke round the cotner from me here in Japan (near Kobe) has a Thema 8.32 I'm one of the few who knows how lucky he is. Still lots of love in Japan (and around the world) for the mighty Lancia.
At last! Someone who knows how good these cars actually were. Virtually all cars rusted in the 70’s as for all sorts of reasons, my Dad had a Fiat 132 2000 new in 79, that started bubbling in the middle of flat panels in its third year and it wasn’t confined to Italian cars, as the same thing happened to my uncle’s Leyland Princess. The Beta variants were a great drive without exception, especially the HPE, which I was lucky enough to be able to use a Volumex version of, for a few months in the late 80s. Time has been very kind to the styling on all the models and they represent good value in the classic market.
The Beta 4 door was a competitor to the 3 Series in its heyday. Fiat / Lancia should never have deserted the UK. The market is crying out for prestige marques provided build quality is assured. A lesson for Jaguar here.
A Lancia Beta 2.0 Coupe was my first "car of choice" after starting working in the early 80s. Secondhand, but I loved it. Beautiful car with, for the time, serious performance and a truck load of Italian flair.
On the estate I grew up on in the 1980s I used to see a burgundy Beta just like the Berlina in the video. It was parked up next to the entrance to a row of en-bloc council garages. The one I used to see had rectangular headlamps like the white one. I wonder how these fared against the Citroen GS in the 1970s? Wasn't expecting to hear the FSO Polonez get a mention in this video. I understand that the design for it was quite possibly a rejected design proposal for the 1979/80 Lancia Delta.
Curious to think of a comparison between a 1.0-1.2 GS & the bigger 1.3-2.0l Beta, which neatly could have fit between the GS & CX, as though designed for it... Especially since there was a short-lived technical agreement between Citroen & Lancia so that the CX actually shared aspects of the Beta transaxle despite the CX engine leaning forward rather than backward (for better weight distribution).
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Hi, I'm the guy who debunked the "Soviet steel" myth by pointing out (through research in the US State Department's publicly accessible archives) that:
1. The Soviet Union didn't have enough steel at its hands to pay the Italians with it;
2. The Italian government was against such a deal anyway, because it would further derail the Italy-USSR trade balance, which was already favoring the Soviet side as it was;
3. Let's entertain the "yeah, there's no evidence that a deal of this kind was ever struck, but this doesn't mean they didn't reach such an agreement" crowd. OK then! Even if such a deal had ever been in place, any metallurgist will tell you that you can recycle steel even from shipwrecks and make excellent alloys with it;
4. Finally, even if such a deal had ever been in place, Alfa Romeo, which was NOT part of the Fiat Group, was under no obligation to use it, and Fiat were under no obligation to offer it to them.
Here's my piece for Driven To Write where these things are pointed out - it's the third part of my series on the diplomacy and politics behind the founding of the VAZ factory: driventowrite.com/2022/05/17/vaz-diplomacy-politics-and-urban-legends-part-3/
And finally... I'd like to point out that a certain Mr Martin Buckley had everyone believe that De Gaulle could both have already spent two years pining for the fjords and somehow veto Citroën-Fiat joint ventures. Oh well, that's car "journalism" for you.
Many thanks for this Konstantinos - I read your very interesting article a while ago but couldn't find it again to cite it in more detail for the video. I'm a big fan of DrivenToWrite, the best car blog by miles.
Apologies for the delay in getting your comment posted - it was held for review because of the link and I got behind with the reviewing. I've now pinned it, as various commenters are _still_ saying we're wrong.
One more fact: anybody who has lived in Russia will tell you that Russian roads are ten (10) times worse for making cars rust because of the snow, ice and grit that is used on the roads 6 months a year.
Russian cars need to be much more rust-proof than others, or they would rot within a year. AvtoVAZ used thicker steel on Ladas (called Zhiguli in Russia) than on the original Fiats.
@@StarHorseLover2012 I seem to recall that an 1980 X reg Skoda Estelle I owned in early 90's had a thickness of metal in the body panels that I have not come across since on any other car.
Bravo Kosta
Never believed the russian steel story !
I owned one of the last HPE VX 1985.
It was my everyday driver for 13 years. Being a late one has galvanising so minimal rust.
Made a superb tow car. The supercharger gave masses of torque.
Bought with 160,000km on it and sold with 320,000km. It was still going strong.
In Australia we had the same 'Trial by Media' with certain makes of vehicles. Falsehoods and untruths running rampant in the search for an Emmy Award and justification for their own existence. Thank you for this enlightening video.
I would just like to say that back in the day my wife and I each had Beta saloons and then she went on to have an HPE. We loved all three, all were reliable and we had no rust issues. We never understood where the bad reputation came from but these cars certainly didn't deserve the reputation that they were landed with.
I had a Monte Carlo and a Beta coupe. Have had a lot of cars but I still think they were my favorites, very underrated. Great fun, Italian character, and timeless handsome design
I had a work mate who bought a saloon. While parked in the works car park, someone driving with their leg in plaster rear ended it! He kept it a while then flogged it to some dodgy bloke. A week later he was knocked out of bed at 3 in the morning by the police as he was still shown as the owner. It had been found in a canal (lights still on) after being used as a get-a-way car! It WAS fast! 2.0(?)ltr twin cam twin Dellortos!
That’s a great story!
Thank you for standing up for the Lancia Beta! They didn’t sell too well over here in the USA, but every once in awhile, I’ll see one advertised online. Haven’t seen one in the wild in at least 20 years, though.
As a young boy around 9 my neighbour got a black one. Around 83 i was amazed at this sports car my neighbour took me for a ride ..unfourtunalty it was rotted away before i was a teenager.
My aunt had a Berlina back in the day.
I remember driving through Texas in August.
The air conditioning was pathetic and the engine was spinning at over 4,000 RPM trying to keep up with traffic.
It had an endless stream of mechanical and electrical problems and rust showed up within 18 months of her buying it.
She eventually moved to Wisconsin and his car did not like cold weather at all often becoming difficult if not impossible to start.
The rust accelerated exponentially due to Wisconsin's salted winter roads.
But if you ask her today she'll look back through rose colored glasses and remember it fondly.
Utterly brilliant analysis and presentation. It says it all. Lancia is such a special brand, I do wish they re-emerge from the ashes.
There's still one model in the Lancia range, isn't there (the Ypsilon)? 🙂 But FIAT don't seem to have enough money to develop a full range of cars for FIAT or Alfa Romeo themselves (no Giulietta replacement, no Punto replacement etc), let alone for Lancia as well.
For whatever reason, a new FCA product is more likely to be badged or rebadged as a Dodge these days, e.g., the Dodge Dart compact sedan (also sold as the Fiat Viaggio) or the Dodge Hornet CUV, the rebadged Alfa Romeo Tonale. There was also the Chrysler 200 that was discontinued like the Dart.
Unfortunately I think FIAT Chrysler have too many brands, rather than not enough brands. Already Alfa Romeo are prohibited by FIAT from competing against Maserati in the large luxury sedan or large luxury SUV market for example. Similarly, FIAT probably don't want Lancia to compete against Alfa Romeo, since they are already struggling to grow Alfa Romeo sales as it is (AFAIK, particularly in North America), let alone try to market and grow another brand.
Lancia are going to come back as EVs, unfortunately I can’t share the link on here.
@TassieLorenzo FCA is no more, having merged with PSA (Peugeot-Citroën) to become Stellantis, which is allowing each of their many marques, including Lancia, a decade to make a business case for their continued survival. Despite having only a single remaining model sold only in Italy, the Ypsilon, Lancia has still outsold all Alfa Romeo models across all of Europe combined. Lancia apparently will be teamed up with DS and Alfa Romeo as the premium marques in Stellantis' portfolio.
A great summary of the Betas and their U.K. story. My appreciation of the video, was of how well you did this. My appreciation of the cars is fuelled by my ownership in the 80s of: a HPE, a Coupe and a Monte Carlo.
I should add that a few condemned Betas had a brief reprieve. When I moved to Newbury in 1984/5 I struck up a friendship with a guy who lived in Hermitage up the road. I think his name was Ian Walker and he ran a racing school - he later died in a plane crash if memory serves. He was a Lancia fan and had a couple of the early Martini striped Deltas from Lancia. He had acquired two scrap Betas 'back door' en route to Halletts. One was a dark brown 2000 saloon, one a light blue Coupe. He has a very nice red Spyder and needed a rear 3/4 window but Lancia could not supply one. The 2000 saloon was bodily good but needed the sub mounts doing - I gave up before I even started as it would prove impossible to register it again due to a COD. Pity - it would have been a nice car for 50 quid and a weekend of welding!😂
I remember reading the Autocar road test of a Beta 2000 Berlina when they first came out. They liked it. It was technically advanced, refined, handled and rode well, and was fairly fast for a saloon car. Really, it was a prototypical modern fwd car.
Dad had a Beta Coupé, he didn't think it rusted any more quickly than any other car of the era. A cost of rust proof underneath and it lasted him 2 years before being sold on.
The only issue Dad remembered was how hard it was to sell on afterwards in the early 80s, the damage to the car's reputation having been done by that stage.
Interesting review , I recall a colleague's husband was service manager at an upmarket local garage that became a Lancia franchise and were already Rolls-Royce dealers.He had use of an HPE in a mimosa yellow ( SVE 492S ) and often rode in it and it was a particularly brisk and pleasant car with what I considered at the time the most ' drop-dead ' gorgeous looks !.Very sadly , the awful publicity at the time affected their sales and a wonderful long-existing garage with a superb service reputation was sent into receivership.
Martin, congratulations on another gem of a video 👌🏼👏🏼😀 Very well researched and full of passion for these wonderful motorcars. Excellent stuff, can't wait for the road test. And congratulations on the 3000 subs too 🎉
Thanks for all your support Frank 😊
I did my apprenticeship at a alpha , fiat and lancia dealer in Sydney Australia in the 70s and one thing common about the Italian cars of that era was rust enough that at least 1in 10 were to rusty to be put on the road ie put fingers through floor pan and sills and rotten pillars . The other big problem was kleber tyres they often had catastrophic failure before they even left the showroom floor . I rolled a sud 3 times going around a corner at about 50kmh . Have to give lancia credit for how easy they were to work on and reliability just a pity about the rust . We only got the beta coupe , HPE and the 4 door beta here in Oz
Brilliant video - I really enjoyed that - thanks. The Beta HPEs, cabriolets and coupes do it for me - especially the late Volumex models. I completely agree with you on the rust issue - Vauxhall FE Victor front wings for example were almost service items, lasting no more than 2 years, and 70s Datsuns would happily fizz away in drizzle. The only thing you didn’t mention was dreadful consumer programme That’s Life, who seemed to have it in for Lancia, and who ran more than one piece about the recall scheme. As you rightly said, no one cared to mention the industry leading 6 yr anti-corrosion warranty, or the tie in with SAAB, who brought their expertise in rust prevention to the Italian company. At least Top Gear (under Clarkson) has always had good things to say about Lancia, for which I applaud them! Finally, the 037 is an absolute masterpiece of a car!!!
Glad you enjoyed it Simon!
Completely agree. You’re absolutely right about That’s Life and I did originally plan to mention that too, but I cut it out of the final edit for too much swearing 😬
@@GrandThriftAuto yes, the thought of That’s Life has a similar effect on me too!
@@simonhodgetts6530 "sausages"
My dad loved his Lancia, the rust was no worse than any other car of the period. We lived near the sea which was probably a factor. The biggest issue was the gearbox it failed on the way back from the Alps, it was all replaced free of charge. He ran that car until it was no longer economical to keep on the road. It was comfortable and and fast. Lancia always made good cars.
Absolutely love this video. Really informative and great sense of humour whilst getting the point across
Thanks, that’s great to hear!
Well documented except concerning the Russian recycled war fleet steel which was used to build italian cars in the 80/90's and IS the reason why cars rusted away. Condensation evaporates in warm climates.
Anyway. I lived and drove in these cars in Italy at the time - great fun by the way - and YES they were made with poorly treated Russian steel that rusted. Panels simply started blistering under the paint.
MANY recalls were being made.
Interesting to note that although the recall did NOT concern the Beta HPE; rust is why the car HE had a down payment on, failed it's MOT. LOL. More "condensation" 25 years on I suppose .....
Loved the video and I agree 100%! Betas were lovely little cars. My dad had one whom he bought new in '79 and I am told it is still driving around in Palermo (Sicily)today. I'd love to get one myself but here in Australia they are very hard to come by.... I should probably follow your suggestion and import one in the UK.
@Tony Monteleone grazie
I had a beta saloon and loved the engine and it didn't let me down but I was fighting rust all the time!
Congratulations on smashing through 3k subs - well deserved. This video was exceptional and I'm so glad to see that it's doing well!
Thanks Gary!
I had a 2.0litre HPE in the early 80s , a really comfortable car with a really smooth engine. I would have appreciated it a lot more now with its dash board full of gauges.
1981 Venezia. I remember the Lancia Beta ad on a billboard in one of the harbours of old town. It's photographed by my Dad and kept in the family album.
We had a two litre Beta sedan, very comfortable and spacious but what struck me was the dynamics, it was just fun to drive and so stable, it went where you pointed it and that was it.
Thank you so much for this video. In the mid 80's I was sales manager at Portman Garages in George Street, it was a real blast to see the showroom. A lot of what you say is true but by the mid 80's the rust problem was caused by cars being stored for a very long time on airfields, sometimes we delivered new cars with rust bubbles on the wings, but there were compensations. The factory made a batch of 1600 Mk3 saloons by mistake and we sold them at huge discounts, £1,500 on the road, less than a Metro at the time. I won't admit just how huge our profits were! Once again thank you.
I wondered why we in New Zealand ended up with so many 1600 versions of the Mk3 Berlinas when our market was usually supplied with the best specced versions. We also ended up with a a pile of HPE 2 litre automatics which were sold to mainly 2nd hand car dealers who promptly marked them up and onsold them to the public. Rust was never an issue in New Zealand.
Back in the late 70s I worked for a company supplying giant timing displays for horse shows etc and for a while Lancia sponsored them, as well as plastering them with Lancia branding they gave us some Berlinas for towing the units about, they were pretty ugly but drove beautifully and were very luxurious for the day. I really enjoyed driving them around for the couple of years we had them. My boss managed to get an HPE out of them too, that was fun to drive.
My father bought a Beta Berlina 2000 new back in 1979 when I was 5, he had Tuff Kote Dinol rust treatment applied from new and kept it till 1983 when it had covered just shy of 50k miles. He had no major issues with the car, there were no visible signs of rust when he sold it. Yes it was garaged and looked after very well but my father has only fond memories of the car. He sold it privately to a local chap and we saw it regularly in use till the late 1980s, I can still remember the reg number, RCK 182T, bought from Grosvenor Motors in Preston. Happy Days
I owned a blue HPE 2000 in 1983. Absolutely beautiful car. Unfortunately it did rust badly and a local VW garage part exchanged it for a new Polo. They gave me good money.
Fantastic video about a fantastic range of cars.
My dad had a 1300 Berlina that was bought back by Lancia. It allowed dad to upgrade to a 1600. I could tell many a story about those two cars which despite not being perfect were great and which all this time later has still left me with a Lancia itch I'd still like to scratch.
The Lancia Beta Coupe was one of the most refined vehicles you could buy in the late 70's. Was worlds apart from anything else in the same class.
And that says 'what' about the 70's cars?
@@poppycock6572 that Lancia were among the best
..well,..that the Beta was more refined than most other 70's cars.
These beta cars are extremely unreliable with all sorts of problems due to sub standard components.
I guess they don’t properly cure rubber or heat treat steel. Electrical connections always find way to go haywire. Plastic lever break at most critical way.
I still remember manually operated window regulator were made of some tiny soft metal gear with perhaps 10 teeth that moves steel spring like cable mechanism up and down. These gear teeth tend to round off easily and won’t engage to move window at all. Even though the parts are extremely expensive they were impossible to find even in its days!!!
I had one in Southern California so rust or Russian steel crap wasn’t an issue.
Saw a reply mentioning window regulators. I had similar problem. Rebuilt a couple of damaged units to make one good regulator. Windows required very "hard winding" due to different curvitures of door and window frames. Mounted my new rebuilt regulator with drilled out holes in the metal window frame using 10-32 screws and "nylok " nuts allowing a small amount of "slop". Window winding then required much less effort and still sealed properly. Never had a problem after that. Performed same modification on both coupes I owned.
Great video. I owned a monte carlo and it was pure pleasure. Pain was there as for most Italian cars but so was the joy
Fiat headquarters in Frankfurt basically had no used car lot. All Lancia trade-ins were kicked out as fast as possible. I bought a few very cheap cars there during the 80's.
Fantastic video and very well written.
I only saw a handful of these in my lifetime because the Coupe was more popular in Portugal.
Oh, and congratulations for the 3k mark. Well deserved!
Excellent clear presentation and the archive stuff you included made your video high quality.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
About time the true story was explained in straight talking. Well done. Bob
Great review and I loved the Beta range. My dad was going for a Beta HPE but saw and bought an Alfa GTV 2.0, very beautiful but not the nicest gearbox, often wondered hoe the HPE would have been to drive. Probably more practical. Always loved Lancia and hope Stellantis will resurrect the marque.
Brother had a black Y plate HPE ,looked like a black hearse specifically for mafia funerals..
Lovely motor and the twin cam was very reliable in the whole ,always on the hunt for a Volumex but like rocking horse shit…
Great video, my old man was a mechanic and I remember as a kid growing up in the 80s him telling me the engine falling out story, and how bad they rust....but didn't warn me about Ford's and how they rust, so I bought a bunch of Capri's, and some of those were truly crap.
In 1984 I bought a 78 HPE. I loved the performance and quirky styling, being a serial Capri owner before that. In 1985 I took it to Germany on military posting where it failed its first BFG test (softer equivalent of the MoT) due to extensive and terminal body rot. I stripped out the interior and used it for my first ever venture into motorsport - rally-cross. In my first race meeting it got me a third-in-class trophy, mainly thanks to the amazing engine, but that race meeting caused the corroded front chassis members to collapse and I had to scrap it. Not all of it went in the bin. I used the air horns and the windscreen wash system (a plastic bag with a pump in it, as I recall) in a Dutton kit car that I started building later that year.
I was a apprentice at the company in the early 80s that imported Lancia cars into the UK and also that collected all the buy backs, not just simple recall these cars were all scraped, at a huge cost to the Company, our company started to rust proof all new Lancia cars but there name was finished.I saw all the cars with there subframes hanging out, its not a myth.
In 1983 I was a director of Suzuki’s British importer. I watched warranty very closely (even though Suzuki Japan covered our costs). The average warranty cost per car sold was around £3 (parts and labour) at 1983 values. The claim rate was 25%. In other words, 3 out of 4 owners never needed to make a claim at all.
I was then seconded to Lancar, a sister company about to start UK import and distribution of Lancia cars. Imagine my shock when Fiat (Turin), with whom I was negotiating aftersales costs, said that Lancar must bear the warranty costs themselves. What supreme confidence in their own product. After dribbling out misleading figures of their own warranty costs, we reluctantly agreed.
And the truth?
The warranty cost of Lancia cars was at least £30 per unit sold if you ignored the Gamma model which on account of its rotten engine was ten-fold more than the Betas.
The claim rate was well over 100%. Yes, every single Lancia owner (and more), submitted a warranty claim. And the Gamma's engine really did fall down onto the road.
During my 3-4 years with Lancar, I naturally drove Lancia company cars. The car with the best handling, braking and overall performance was the Delta HF Turbo, which was a nose ahead of a red Lancia Beta Coupe Volumex. Brilliant, standout, cars. The worst company car I had was the Gamma that was completely unreliable (I must have had 3 or 4). Memorably, the only board meeting I ever missed was when the Gamma's auto gearbox failed in Portman Square.
By the way, the cause of Lancia's stupendously high warranty costs was their godawful, completely unreliable electrics - especially in the Beta Trevi.
"Gamma engine fell onto the road" absolute tosh. Oh, by the way I drive number 19 as a daily car and have done for many years.
I remember how popular they were in the 70s and a particular family friend had several of them. The 4 door failed its MOT when only a few years old and he swapped it for an HPE that was in much better shape and he had a Targa topped one too I seem to remember.. But that also succumbed to rust after a few short years. But so did so many cars in those days. I remember going to the local scrap yard for parts for my 1958 Morris Minor in the late 70s and realising that there were loads of 10 year old Vauxhalls, Fords, Fiats and others all in dreadful states of rust while my Morris was rust-free and twice their age. But we lived only 20 mins from the coast and, in those days, people would regularly drive onto beaches - that didn't help. Apart from the real and imagined rust, the Beta had a great reputation as a real driver's car.
Great report. I have a Lancia Bata HPE and it's beautiful, sounds great, had really handles. Only one rust place near the windshield. I had it for years and would never sell it.
Absolutely first rate piece Sir!!! Got to add that this is as balanced an assessment of any car related issue that I've watched on UToob . More of the same please!!!
First time viewer here. I must admit I enjoy the way you deliver your thoughts a lot - with clarity and a modicum of humour instead of flamboyance and bloated showmanship. Good work! Subscriber count going +1 :)
Thanks very much and welcome aboard!
That green paint at 11:24 is sublime. And the interior trim too!
It’s lovely, isn’t it?
It's good to see someone challenging pub bore/armchair expert myths. Plus the guy is handsome.
There are beta things to do than peddle falsehoods
Almost as handsome as Barrington Shitpeas, but not quite 😉
Agree with your honest assessment. Excellent cars (when working). I bought an HPE ie in 1989. It was an automatic (Made by AP and loosely based on the Austin Maxi auto box- yes really!) Needless to say it packed up so i converted it to manual in 1993. Sold in 1998 - XCW500Y, where are you now?
I bet a similar year ford wasn't as inspiring as this. Fiat and Ford had so many great moments, as always I felt more passion for the Alfa. Thanks for reminding us how quirky is not a bad thing!
I won’t be making that unfounded comment ever again. Thanks for putting all right on the issue of rust there, great research and use of archive.
Well said! I’m a 1970s Fiat man but lots of why you say about the Beta is cross applicable. Very pleased that you, too, are helping to debunk the Russian steel fallacy / bollock rot nonsense; it’s simply not true, as Matteo of Roadster Life has also explained. I’m pleased to have stumbled over your channel and will be adding you to my subs list. Cheers. Uppermiddlepetrolhead.
Welcome back. More content please.
Thanks :) More videos in the pipeline, including a follow-up to this one.
At last , a proper insight to the Beta and its history. You could have added the The Daily Mirror “ had it in” for foreign manufacturers anyway, because they disagreed with the amount of imports and the fact the trade tax levy on imported goods was lifted after we joined the common market. so someone was going to “Get It” , it just happened to be Lancia. The Beta was and is , an excellent car with a suspension which both Ford and Toyota admitted to using as an example when introducing new models in the early 1990 s, some 20 years after the Beta came out.
Thanks, that’s very interesting about the Mirror - it does explain its relentless hate campaign, which went on for months.
i had 2 Lancias in the 80s. Trevi 2000 auto in gold bought (NRD 614X) and Beta Spyder 2000 in blue (NMG 853X) - where are they now ? The Trevi had the most fantastic dashboard and the Spyder was a great drive. We didn't have cameras to hand in those days so I have very few pictures of either but I do recall reversing out of a drive with the drivers door open to see out because of the murky and split plastic window on the spyder . . . I hit the gate post and the door folded forwards on me.... that would be called a 'FAIL' now but then it was just a typical daily hazard back then !
I can’t believe I made a Lancia Beta/Trevi video and didn’t mention THAT dashboard! I even have some film of it too. Ah well, something to save for another day.
I had some experience driving a then 8 year old 1976 Lancia B 2000 saloon, and for a mid-seventies car it drove extremely well. And it was practically rust-free. Nordic spec Lancias had good rust protection, if only you took care to renew it every 2-3 years.
Well said... I have been an Italian car lover for many years and owned quite a few from Fiat & Alfa, mainly Alfasud`s, i worked as a car body repairer at an Austin/Rover dealership from the mid 1970`s... back then all cars rusted badly! but today many people see their favorite brands, especially old Ford`s through rose tinted glasses..
I'm going to pick up a lancia beta 1800 soon thanks for all the informa
Excellent! Hope it all goes well 👍
I recently bought a 1984 HPE Volumex, 2 owners from new and no rust issue. It's a joy to drive thanks to its chassis and supercharger.
Now I can work on my 78 Gamma Coupe sorting all the issues that plagued that rather excellent car.
The Beta Coupe Volumex version is to die for!!!!!!!
Thanks for setting the record straight!
You’re welcome Anil 😊
At age 8 I got my first pair of glasses and there was a maroon Beta Berlina in the optometrist's parking lot, identical to the one in the film except for LHD and Federal bumpers.
At the time my dad had a '79 C-10 that rusted like it was an Olympic sport.
Dad bought a beta coupe back in the mid seventies, went from a lotus Cortina mk2 to the Lancia, thinking back it seemed a fairly modern car with the transverse engine layout, quite nicely finished inside too, sadly he passed away before the dreaded rust problem reared its head, the Cortina is one of the lucky survivors and worth a fortune, the Lancia is dead and buried a long time ago.
I remember as a boy the headlines and now working in the automotive industry the PR disaster it must have been for them.. almost the same as the Nissan Almera getting one star crossed through…what a morning in the office that was….
I’d forgotten about that Almera story - yes, a nightmare.
It all started with a relentless campaign in the Daily Mirror, so I dug deep to see if Robert Maxwell (DM owner) and Gerald Ronson (owner of Lancar, UK Lancia importer) were enemies - but no, they were good mates, both then and later. Most odd.
Nice to see that gathering of the almost-forgotten (in the States) Lancia Beta series! As a young lad of 17 (living in Australia at the time), the Monte Carlo/Scorpion was my favorite of the new cars of the time (ca. 1975); the Alfa Alfetta GT hatch and the Datsun 260-Z being others I fancied...Nice review, and looking forward to the drive test! How's the Aerodeck going?
Glad you enjoyed it! I’m planning to do some more metalwork on the Aerodeck this weekend - the day job has been getting in the way quite badly for the last few months but is quiet again now.
I had a beta HPE 2000ie in the early 80s. Was my company car for driving in London and home to Essex. It went alright, no real issues apart from the rear side window popping once and the clutch being rather heavy. Mine was red and still newish back then so no rust. Had it for 2 years and chopped it in for an xr3i.
This was certainly a very welcome surprise, another top watch from Grand Thrift Towers
Hi Thanks for the informative vid .I bought a second hand beta in the late seventies loved it ,it was a yellow four door as in your vid ,it had Weber carbs fitted and really went well,I never had any problem with the engine panel but where previous owner had parked it on a grass centred driveway during his ownership the inner sills and floor pan was in a poor state and I had to do a lot of welding
My first car was a 6 year old renault 16... It lasted 12 months before dissolving. Undaunted, my second car was a beautiful dark blue Trevi with space age interior... Sold it to an Alfa owning friend a couple of years later... No rust issues... Just smiles!
Drove the 1.3 of a friend once, many years ago. It went very well for a 1.3 in those days, and I enjoyed my couple of hours with it...
My dad a Lancia Beta in the eighties. The car did not have any major issues. I learned to drive stick on my dad's Lancia. The exhaust sound was very unique and the car was very comfortable. After few minor issues, and the fact we lived in SE Asia where Lancia parts were hard to come by, my dad ended up trading the Lancia for a mint Peugeot 504, which was another beautiful car.
Nissan Navara pick ups (of which there are 1000's) suffer huge chassis rot problems. Spanish built ones had no rust protection on their woefully thin chassis which results in catastrophic failiure in only a few years. Nissan have done their best to cover this up and have been secretly buying back vehicles on a massive scale. i have personal eperience when my best friend bought a rotten one (he paid £9000 for it) it's chassis was rotten. After researching he took it to Nissan who said it was 'fine' and gave him the short shift. At the next MOT it was given a red ticket so he took pictures and sent the details to Nissan, they offered him £9000 for it on condition he sign a non disclosure agreement and had it picked up. I believe there is a picture of a field near a docks (Southampton?) full of used Navaras being shipped to Africa. So, these problems still exist but are handled in a different and better way than Lancia (probably due to Lancias experience) and if you're in the market for a Navara make sure it isn't Spanish built and do your research first...and check the chassis and cross members at the rear.
Thank you for putting this video out there, for the longest time I believed all the stories about these cars, but it turns out I had been mislead the whole time, I now look at these cars in a more positive light.
Well, I remember a German car magazine of the time that compared the 2 novelties of the market, Beta and BMW 5 Series, commenting that BMW would have to take advantage of some aspects of the Beta to be up to it.
I had a friend who had one of these. He had the classic voltage regulator failure. The instrument and dash lights would get brighter and brighter until there was a strong smell of burning !
UNBELIEVABLE! I bought my Beta HPE in 1996. it is a 1978 first series 1600 cc. I had such a fun with her around all Italy. The "doppio corpo" Weber, if well calibrated used to give a sort of turbo push, the 4 disk brakes system was excellent, as was the suspension scheme. And if you want to play there is a real trumpet!!!!😄😄😄 Can't believe there's a you tube channel with Lancia Beta lover!
The reporter actually said it was a public relations exercise to cover up the rust problem and not a public relations campaign as stated so yes it can be both! Lancias don’t have a rust problem but if you are restoring the metalwork simply use Weetabix and spray it silver. I find this replicates the original metal work perfectly.
Cracking video . I had a few Lancia in the 80s saloons , coupe and a couple of deltas. Only ever had 1 fail an mot on corrosion .
These were very sought after in 70/80s my neighbour had an HPE ❤
I had a HPE 2.0 litre brand new from The Chequered Flag in Chiswick in 1982. It was superb and the only fault in 7 years was a defective multipin plug.. It was just after all the rust troubles and Lancia had taken steps to remedy it. I had a look behind the door cards and there was more than ample coating of something that looked like Zeibard? treatment. I never saw a spot of rust unlike the MGB that preceded it. It cost about 7k and next to it when I picked it up was a lovely DB6 for 10k. Thanks for a good video. Regards Edward
I had two beta coupes they were brilliant especially the incredible kick it gave when you floored the accelerator pedal
The 2.0ie coupe models were brilliant. They also had power steering which helped a lot.
That’s interesting, I didn’t know about the power steering 👍
Great analysis & summary👏🏼
As one of the 60 odd cars there that had a cracking 3 days - well said that man.
My 2nd car I owned at 17 yrs old was a Beta Coupe , I loved that car and then after my subframe gave out it was dead ! I did crave a HPE or the Beta VX but the after my coupe then moved me to Alfa and had seven of them right up to my Brera .
Lancia to me are one of my favourite marques and as we know one of the most successful car makers to this day .
Fantastic video on a forgotten classic 👌🔥🌟❤️
Superbly written, sounded like the people who wrote 'Blackadder' had written it (not the series 1 writers, they should still be in prison).
Brilliant video, made me laugh about 8 times so thanks.
That grey coupe at the end was lovely.
Cor, thanks Danny! Glad you enjoyed it 😁
Series 1 written by Rowan Atkinson and Richard Curtis, 2 to 4 by Ben Elton and Richard Curtis . If Atkinson and Curtis were still in prison, would series 2 to 4 still be so good?
Oh, I do like it when unsupported news items are outed as being as flimsy as a Lancia's engine mount...omg, I'm at it now!!!
Great vid and many thanks.
Great video, especially about the Russian steel Legend. The AlfaSud has that same stigma for years.
Roadster life gives a good explanation regards the Alfa Sud rust issue.
I had a 1978 Lancia Beta Coupe 1800 USA Spec and I loved it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could spin the front wheels. I put a carburetor kit on and headers and Monza flow through exhaust all from Bayless Racing in Florida (at that time) and removed the air pump and belt as this model year did not have a catalytic converter I loved that car! Steering on USA Spec was power assist. It only came into play when parking and at low speeds. Mine also had a sunroof which was extremely easy to operate. Mine had no rust at all. I bought it used in 1981. It had 33k miles on it. Silver with double red pin stripes. TOP GEAR is the show that really pooped on this car.
Sounds like a gem of a car!
bellissimo!congratulazioni dall'Italia!
About time someone set the record straight! Thanks from a Beta enthusiast.
You’re more than welcome! Standing up for great cars that ‘folk wisdom’ has treated unfairly (and undervalued) is the Grand Thrift Auto way.
Great vid and educational. Always loved HpEs!
Lovely cars but the tin worm was a real and genuine concern, poorly handled. I think That's Life really did the bad damage though in what now be a slanderous case.
I knew a gentleman who had his bright red 2.0 Beta Saloon condemned under a recall at Auto Yachts Gillingham, the then LANCHEEAH DEALER at just over 18 months old with rotten Cross member to body mounts and much all around it, he finally found out why it clunked taking up drive😀.....he wasn't a vet and his engine didn't fall out.😉 The recall was either a redesigned box section welded into place if possible OR a buy back but, such was the press most opted for the buy back option. My friends Beta at 18 months was unfortunately too far gone. Yet I bought a 1981 when 8 years old that was fine. The later ones had far better build.
It should be noted that the Beta Saloon rot problem was a global issue.
Russian steel myth....I don't think anyone ever got to the source of this completely untrue rumour....Italy produced much of the steel for many OEMs, not just the FIAT Group....this myth spread to VAG too. Just simple poor corrosion protection and even poorer panel edge finishing, which haunted Daimler in the 90s to the surprise of many.
My 'old Grali is my favorite car I've owned.
Correct. If the car wasn't bad it could be repaired - basically a clean up and rustproofing the sub mounts but any holes meant it had to be condemned. Later Betas from '81 ish onwards (when the Trevi arrived) were vastly better - part galvanising, front arch liners and wax injection. Sadly, the Delta took up the slack by being another rust bucket - even the roof used to rot on those.
True story - while living in Osaka Japan back in 2012, I was walking out of the McDonalds on Mido-Suji, right across from Dotonbori Bridge, and spotted something striking, low and red. At first I thought it was a Ferrari 328, so I snapped my trust iPhone 4 out in camera mode. Imagine my surprise when an 037 Stradale drove by, and I actually snapped the spot! It, along with many others from my stay in Japan, are memories that will last a lifetime.
Bloke round the cotner from me here in Japan (near Kobe) has a Thema 8.32
I'm one of the few who knows how lucky he is.
Still lots of love in Japan (and around the world) for the mighty Lancia.
At last! Someone who knows how good these cars actually were. Virtually all cars rusted in the 70’s as for all sorts of reasons, my Dad had a Fiat 132 2000 new in 79, that started bubbling in the middle of flat panels in its third year and it wasn’t confined to Italian cars, as the same thing happened to my uncle’s Leyland Princess.
The Beta variants were a great drive without exception, especially the HPE, which I was lucky enough to be able to use a Volumex version of, for a few months in the late 80s.
Time has been very kind to the styling on all the models and they represent good value in the classic market.
The Beta 4 door was a competitor to the 3 Series in its heyday. Fiat / Lancia should never have deserted the UK. The market is crying out for prestige marques provided build quality is assured. A lesson for Jaguar here.
A Lancia Beta 2.0 Coupe was my first "car of choice" after starting working in the early 80s. Secondhand, but I loved it. Beautiful car with, for the time, serious performance and a truck load of Italian flair.
I remember these briefly some time in the '80s before they were consumed by rust!
On the estate I grew up on in the 1980s I used to see a burgundy Beta just like the Berlina in the video. It was parked up next to the entrance to a row of en-bloc council garages. The one I used to see had rectangular headlamps like the white one. I wonder how these fared against the Citroen GS in the 1970s?
Wasn't expecting to hear the FSO Polonez get a mention in this video. I understand that the design for it was quite possibly a rejected design proposal for the 1979/80 Lancia Delta.
Curious to think of a comparison between a 1.0-1.2 GS & the bigger 1.3-2.0l Beta, which neatly could have fit between the GS & CX, as though designed for it... Especially since there was a short-lived technical agreement between Citroen & Lancia so that the CX actually shared aspects of the Beta transaxle despite the CX engine leaning forward rather than backward (for better weight distribution).
The FSO Polonez was a Polish-designed major re-skin of the Polski-FIAT 125, which was made in Poland.