How The Enemy Within Killed One Of Italy's Greatest Car Makes - History of Lancia
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Lancia won more Rally titles than any other.. It once made Italy's best cars. Today Lancia is only being sold in Italy, with only one model. Everyone thinks that rust killed Lancia but in fact the reasons that the once glorious marque has practically ceased to exist are complex and even involve Alfa Romeo. This is the story of 3 key factors that led to Lancia's downfall.
My mate had a LANCIA dealership in Glasgow in the late 1970s he told me they were an excellent car superbly engineered he actually owned one himself he sent it into a rust proofing company who rust proofed the whole car he ran that car right into the 1980s and never had a bit of rust
The best car I ever owned was a Lancia HF Turbo, white with Martini stripes. I did thousands of miles around the U.K and Europe in the 80's and early 90's and it never let me down and I loved it to bits, even if it did understeer horrendously in the wet and the windows didn't always go up when you wanted them to.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Combine the two, and you have a recipe for happiness on wheels!
Just took my 1990 hf turbo to the mountains of Jerusalem this morning. What a great little car!
I remember the HF Turbo very well and, although I didn't drive them as often as you, l don't remember the understeer particularly. It did have tyres that were two sizes smaller than the RS Turbo; 165s as opposed to 185s.
I had one of those but had a habit of cutting out for no reason. Sold it for £200, bloke I sold it to called me a while later and told me it was a simple earth to the petrol pump. still miss it.
This is saddening. In the mid-80s, as a 20 year old, I purchased a Lancia Beta 2.0 Coupe. It was fabulous. Fast (for the time), wonderful engine and neutral and safe handling (for a FWD). It had it's flaws but, like all the most seductive Italian mistresses, it's looks and style were beyond persuasive so I happily forgave it it's trivial failings and frustrations, like the manifold bolts that just refused to stay torqued down and were a pain to reach due to the back-canted engine.
if thats the best you can describe the handling of a beta coupe i would love to know what you have driven that was better. wow . under powered for the chassis yes . but never neutral . a fabulous car to drive in its day , probably still is. wish i still had mine
@@markrell1231 it was good, but my 2nd Gen Renault 5 turbo was ballistically quick through bends and my Red Top Astra GTE 16V had a fantastic engine although the handling was a bit meh. These days I tool about in an Audi S5 (the V8 flavor) and on RS4 20in alloys with all wheel drive it grips like a leech to at blood bank. The Beta Coupe was neutral because it's suspension set up could handle the engine's output. It wasn't overpowered relative to it's levels of grip. You could only really provoke it in the wet and, usually, it washed out wide at the front. It took foolish levels of goading to get the back out.
@@markrell1231 totally agree, I remember someone in a TR7 trying to live with Lancia on a twisty road, he was soon a dot in the rear view mirror
@@AndrewKerr2406 In a TR7........?
My grandmother could outrun a TR7 in a luxury model 2 door 1966 cortina.... standard everything.
Could outrun a TR7 in a push bike.
I got sacked for telling my boss I couldn’t sell his TR7 until he priced it as a Skoda. lol
The engine was okay for the hot sedans.... where they called a sprint ?
But the TR7 was a much heavier car and the engine was only tuned for nuns to go shopping.
Clever wedge design but handled like a shopping trolly.
I got it, the Dolomite Sprint.
Same engine, but the sprint engine was hot.
Those in the TR7 were not..... the dumbest design ever for a ladies shopping trolley.
@@Rassskle all of the above are true, I think the driver thought he was in a Stratos
I was a mechanic in a former life and had the pleasure of working at a couple of Italian car repair shops where i saw all sorts including Beta, fulvia zagato, flavia, flamina, HPE. My favourite Lancias were those prior to fiat ownership; the V6, flat 4, and the 'V4' were truly works of art.
????????
The V4 just sounds tricky to work on
Such a shame when one recalls their amazing race/rally heritage.I will long remember standing in the Forest of Dean at dead of night & hearing the Stratos approaching from about a mile away!
Later I owned two Beta HPE,s & they were great.I always wanted a Thema Turbo but ended up with a Fiat Chroma which,in all fairness, was,nt bad,Also we had an italian car specialist in Harrow where I used to live.
The departure of Ir. Ghidella as manager of the car department and the last car man within Fiat was a blow which they never really recovered from. Under his stewardship FIAT had a renaissance and Lancia made some profit. He understood the position of Lancia and made the best of it. The take over of Alfa and the intern struggle of power drove Ghidella out.
Me thinks we will see the shield once more. In the nearest of futures. However, my guess is it will be an EV product only. Just a feeling..........Best wishes from the Forest of Blackness, Mike
Perhaps a touch of the British Leylands - natural competitors under the same roof. Triumph/Rover, Lancia/Alfa. One eventually dwindles.
The biggest general problem for the whole Fiat group, is that they rather delete models than invest in development. As a result you have nothing to buy. Just look in the past. Even the Fiat itself could go toe to toe with BMW, but now there is just no range of cars to choose from.
Moving to standarised front wheel drive garbage for costs saving, was another blow. If you want to make a quality sports car, it just needs to be rear wheel drive.
@@piotrmalewski8178 Indeed revolution instead of evolution.
One more comment :): Lancia has more than a badge. It has heritage that can inspire car designs. Albeit not endless, look at what Fiat has made with a single design, the Fiat 500 was re-invented. On a completely different scale, look at Lancia Delta Amos - the Lancia Delta Integrale futurist. At the moment I have an Alfa Romeo but I would love to be able to buy a Lancia Delta generation 4 (yet to be conceived).
I don´t think so. All Lancias for the last 50 years have worn the badge but been built from FIAT components entirely. This includes the Stratos, which was a D´Allara skunk works design with a Dino engine and box. Anyone who remembers the glory days of Integrale WDCs would be comfortably in their mid 30s by now and a lot has happened since, none of it to improve Lancia´s market reach. It´s romantic wishful thinking to believe that the Lancia badge will have much intrinsic appeal to a wide audience in 2025 and Stellantis is already groaning with an oversupply of brands which don´t generate strong consumer identity or desire. Including Alfa Romeo.....
Excellent recap of Lancia, Alex. Yes, it's sad to see FIAT never made heads or tails of an otherwise fantastic brand. In an ideal world, you would have Ferrari for performance seekers, Maserati for luxury performance, Lancia for high-quality mass-produced performance, Alfa for a synthesis of all of the above and FIAT cars to surprise us once in a while.
Also, ask the Maserati family how they felt seeing the government give money to Alfa and not Maserati in the 50s and 60s.
Hallo Giacomo,interesting story.In my family we had 42 Lancias from 1950 and personally I owned 11 of them.My first remember of a car is that of my mother's Fulvia Berlina,and my last Lancia was a Thesis V6 3.0.But I also remember my father's Flaminia Coupè (he had four of them,all metallic silver with black leather interiors because he thought that nobody could realize that he was changing car often....)and I have good rememberings of my cars.The first that I bought with my money was a beautiful Gamma Coupè mk 2.It was an excellent but fragile car,with fantastic stability and road holding and excellent brakes.It was not completely reliable,but,as all the Lancisti,I tended to love my Gamma and I am thinking to buy another one one day.My Gamma is still on the road,owned by a collector. I had also two Delta 2,a 5 door HF and a Hpe HF and I can say that one of the best cars I have ever had was the ugly K coupè,a 5 cylinder 2.0 liter turbo,that was a perfect car.The same I can say about the Thesis,that was a V6 3.0 liter.
I agree with your description of the story of Lancia,but in the last 20 years Fiat spent a lot of money in the wrong way to save Lancia. Sergio Marchionne was a great finance manager but he understood nothing about cars.The results of his choiches are evident with Lancia but also with Alfa Romeo. After Marchionne Alfa was reduced to two models,the Giulia and the Stelvio,both with few engines and in one version. I don't consider the third Alfa,the 4C (I have one,I had I ride today with her) because even if I adore her,is probably the only car that is not at all useful.It is just a big toy,but you can't do anything with her,if not driving around for fun which is a great thing for a petrolhead but is a nonsense for a car maker. When mr.Marchionne said that the Lancia brand had no more appeal,he forgot that in all the world the word Integrale is still well known,and he lost the greatest opportunity to revive Lancia saying no to the Fulvia Coupè of 2003,that was a little masterpiece with people ready to buy one everywhere. Marchionne was the same man that,when the actual Fiat 500 was launched as a show car in 2004 as the Trepiuno,didn't want to produce her,and it had been a very hard task to convince him that that little car,rebadged 500,was to became a huge success.
Lancia was very ill,but the final her final killer was Sergio Marchionne,a man for whom I have a real simpathy and admiration,but that was not the best as a car maker. And when he decided to replace Montezemolo with himself at Ferrari,he did other disasters.
Compare the Montezemolo-Ferrari results with those of the Marchionne-Ferrari in F1 and you'll understand.
Fulvia coupe, WHAT A MISSED OPORTUNITY……….
💚🙄💔
Hi Jack, good balanced video. Just to correct the Beta bit, they were launched in 72 originally and the issue with the subframe was only on the early Saloons, it was fixed for by the time the Coupe/Spider and HPE were launched in 74 is my understanding.
Correct.....
The thickness of the steel used to make the bracket that attached the rear of the subframe to the bulkhead was too thin and rusted away more quickly and failed. Engines never fell out, just the subframe with the engine dropped...
I had 5 Lancias including 2 Betas, 1 HPE and Gamma coupe and they were all great cars. I even managed to find and buy back the Gamma after 10 years but had to part with again due to a divorce. I've tried to find it again but I think it's gone to the great scrap yard in the sky!
I've also driven a Thema turbo, Montecarlo, Y10 and a Trevi.
In early eighties my partner had a coupe and an HPE , both amazing cars .
Hi mate great video finally some great Lancia stuff on TH-cam. I remember That’s Life with Esther Rantzen destroying the Lancia brand over rust on what was a massively popular show at the time. That really hammered the nails down. I’d love to see vids on engines - Lampredi Twin cam, Alfa V6 etc. Also styling houses - Bertone, Pininfarina etc
I had bought a 1600 Beta saloon and fortunately included a full Zeibart protection, a local Lancia garage bought it back at a good price as they wanted safe cars to sell to customers with rust problems. Great pity as it was a lovely saloon which I never got to really enjoy.
Great video as usual. It was a Lancia Delta HPE that started my love for Italian vehicles. Despite its various flaws, the driving experience was on another level than what I had previously experienced. Since those days, there have been a series of Fiat's and Alfa Romeo but it will always be a Lancia that holds a special place in my love of cars.
Thanks Philip!! Glad you enjoyed the video
8:15 I like your comment about rust & how German cars managed to get away with it. I remember the Beta story, which was also the time when VW Beetles would snap in half, Scirrocos would crumble away before your eyes, Mercedes would rust but NOT develop holes because the metal was so thick which made them very slow & heavy & the only reason Porsche 911s didn't rust is so many of them never got chance, usually being sideways in a ditch after spinning out, before the paint had time to dry.
Excellent video , An Italian car manufacturer back in the day having problems for pursuing quality, who'd have thought?!!.I had three Beta coupes through the latter part of the 80s, 1.3, 2.0 & VX. Gorgeous to look at and fantastic to drive, such a shame to see them go the way they have, Seem to remember Thema shared floorpan with Croma and Saab 9000, Croma had rubbish sales to I think.
The Thema, Chroma, 9000 and Alfa 164 all shared the Type 4 platform - I think the FIAT and Lancia also shared doors.
The Gamma coupe is one of the most beautiful designs I've seen . I got to appreciate that when I was climbing over them in the local scrapyard.
then you started rescuing them?????,...
@@user-pt1ow8hx5l How to lose a lot of money....
Excellent video Jack. I’ve always been greatly saddened by the demise of Lancia in the Uk - it’s a car marque I always hoped I’d own an example of. The re-badged Chryslers was a particular low point. I could never understand why FIAT couldn’t do more with the brand - after all, they could have always made luxury cars to sit above Alfa Romeo - but I guess with the Maserati brand in the FIAT stable at the time, made the marketplace too overcrowded. I hope that Stellantis can make something of the brand, but I fear that all we’ll get will be badge-engineered electric SUVs from the Stellantis stable………
Thanks Simon.. fully agree with what you say.. such a shame
Jack, that was really well presented, I feel we can only really celebrate what Lancia were in the past and not what they will become. Hopefully I am wrong but I feel the best days for every car manufacturer are now in the past. I own two Lancia's (Delta mk1 turbo and Y10 turbo). If I had the space I would also like a Kappa with the 20v turbo engine. I have a Fiat coupe 20v turbo with the same engine, it is fantastic.
Nice one.🥰 At one point my dad had a Gamma, mum and sister identical Y10 Turbos, and I a Delta GTie (later got an 8v Delta Integrale). I hate the soulless Chrysler rebadgings, want a proper Lancia. Still got the HFie badge on my keyring, and an Intergrale wheelcap (with the logo). Sigh! 😢
The Delta III is subjectively a very handsomely and cleverly designed car. I owned one for more than a year and sold it a few months ago and it was always a conversation starter around the city. Quite reliable car as well. It was a Fiat under the hood obviously but it was definitely something to look at. I think it’s design still stands as one of the most beautiful modern c-segment hatchbacks today.
I saw the Stratos by a dealer in real life , i thought it was from outer space
Breaks my heart to see how far the icon has fallen , have had them in various forms since I was 18 .. still have an Integrale that makes me smile every single day
Basically FIAT didn't knew what to do with Lancia and it became a redundant brand.
Unfortunately, with the new Stellantis group, the forecast is also dire and there are just too many brands under the same umbrella...
Thanks for the wonderful story! I never knew Lancia competed in Formula 1. By the way, I would not be surprised if they preserve the brand name for a future revival.
I was lucky enough in the 90’s to own a red Integrale 16v. I still kick myself for selling it and even dream sometimes of finding it and buying it back! Currently on the waiting list for an LB Stratos. 🤞
Lancia HPEs and Montecarlos were superb. No more rust problems than any other car of the era. That noise when you turned the key.....electric windows could be a little iffy though.
Very interesting and informative! Seems to be parallels between Italian motor industry and the UK with British Leyland.
It was Alfa Romeo insiders to force Lancia to becoming an Italian Cadillac (at its worst) instead of its true DNA...and Marchione buying it hook, line and sinker...by the way, I've owned a Prisma, a Thema 2.0 Turbo SW, a Lybra 2.0 SW (incredible build quality) and currently a Delta 1.8 Di (Delta III) which shows the drop in quality from the Lybra pretty starkly...its saving grace is the engine ;-)
Having owned 2 Lancia Delta's they were the best handling road cars I have ever had! They were only the 1.4L engined models but nothing could keep up with them on the country roads in Scotland! Golf GTi's were faster on the straights but not a match in the twisty bits, of which there are many! It was only the ludicrous cost of minor rust repairs that made me sell!
I Still own a Delta LX series 1, the one with the 1,3 Lampredi engine. It may just have 75 bhp, but it's such a thrill to drive it on sinuous mountain roads!
...Alas, rust is an issue.
I have 2009 Lancia Delta, had 2004 Alfa Romeo 156 before. Great cars both, reliable, beautifull and fun to drive. Hope both of these car makers will have a bright future.
The Delta was rebranded and sold as the SAAB-Lancia 600 in Sweden, Norway and Denmark during the early 1980’s. It was supposed to replace the SAAB 96 after its demise, but it never took off. The quality of the cars (especially when it came to rust protection) was so bad only a few of them has survived. Out of 6419 cars sold 159 was left 10 years ago. Out of these 159 cars, 12 was still in use.
Because of the quality issues the prices on the second hand market fell off a cliff. A reporter used the headline ”You buy a SAAB - but sell a Lancia” to describe the situation.
Best race I ever had, was in my E30 325i Sport, against a Lancia Delta Integrale evolution..I only just won by a fanny hair but I will never forget the noises coming from that EVO..they sound AMAZING !
As an English Italian myself, it is sad. My first car was a Y10 back in the 90s.
What's happening to mass market Italian cars is sad too.
They have no place in the modern world. People bought Italian cars for their looks, performance and "brio" on the whole.
Now everything is going hybrid and EV, unfortunately, there's no place for performance from glorious engines like Busso's.
Add to that, that SUVs and crossovers are what the market "wants" and there goes beautiful cars.
That's why I can't see there being anything other than fiat 500 variants being sold by Italy soon...no need for a beautiful suit, when everyone is wearing track suits.
Saying that, if they took the Giulia Cloverleaf, gave it 4WD, tweaked the interior and put a Delta like body in it and called it the integrale, I'd bite. Keep up the great videos.
There’s a guy in Dallas that used to bring his Lancia Scorpion (Montecarlo) to Cars N Coffees, but all the niche cars kept getting pushed out by any Mustang owners with any ability to install an exhaust kit or pinstripes…
I once saw a red Toyota 2000GT racer with the leather hood straps and everything (easily a $1M car) attempt to get into the show, but was turned away because of too many *new Corvettes, Mustangs, Challengers and Camaros, taking up all the room.
I stopped going shortly after.
But I loved that Lancia!
A friend and I both bought 1600 Beta coupe's a couple of weeks apart in about 1988 ish. Mine was burgundy and his was a kind of, off green. Great memories, barring the cambelt snapping on mine hour's after a spontaneous purchase. I recall the interior's being far more opulent than any other production car of their price range.
In the early '80s I left the Vauxhall dealer l worked at just as their sales were taking off with the Astra and Cavalier to move to a Ford dealer just as the successful Cortina was replaced by the much disliked Sierra. As the Sierra and FWD Escort started to pick up sales l decided to move to a higher volume manufacturer, er, Lancia. Did I say higher volume? That's not really what I meant. The truth is I loved the way they looked. Even the base 1.3 Delta seemed a cut above the Escorts and Astras. The 1.6 had a Twin Cam engine as opposed to the opposition's single cam motors. There was just something about them. They were the kind of car I'd have bought. Unfortunately, the local population didn't agree. My company car was a White Hen Turbo which was a mixed bag. Interesting styling which predicted the FIAT Cinquecento and a revvy engine from the same source, but the carburettor and Garrett turbocharger didn't like each other so if you wanted the performance you had to be in a gear lower than you wanted in order to get the turbo spinning. But when it went, it really went. So they were flawed but interesting.. The rest of the world were smoother and it took until the arrival of the Golf GTI to make the rest seem interesting. Unless you drove a Citroën.
You mentioned of Merc’s rust issues, and they got away with it rather lightly. I’d love a talk from you about this very subject
Mercedes rust started when they hooked up with Chrysler. They have never quite been the same again IMHO.
@@Rich77UK As far as I remember they had rust and paint problems long before Chrysler.
I have a 1976 Lancia Bata HPE. It's a sports wagon and it's beautiful, handles great and sounds wonderfulI've had it many years and would never sell it. Their is a mystic about it and people love it's so cool! I loved your video.Please get back to me. Thanks.
Between 1976 and 1983 my father owned a Lancia Beta HPE 1600cc metallic silver with green fabric interiors. It was a magnificent beautiful and stylish designed car and probably the first shooting break concept car ever made. The sound of the engine was marvelous, the driving was exciting and because it was a rare car to be seen anywhere (we had it in Germany and in the USA) it caught the attention of everyone. As I told my father once, for us to have the same impact on the streets today as we did back then with our Lancia, we would have to around with a Maserati GT or some Ferrari model. Unfortunately, it must also be said that it was a quite challenging car from the technical and material point of view. The misfunctions of this and that were constant, and the appearance of rust was guaranteed. Nevertheless, when we think of all the cars that we´ve had in our family throughout the many years, it is our Lancia Beta that holds all the trophies as the vehicle that most struck in every way. For that reason, I too feel the sorrow for seeing what has happened to this great car brand and do hope that one day Lancia makes a glorious comeback.
In the mid-90s a Lancia dealer told me that a lot of BMW and Mercedes drivers bought Lancia because of the comfort and specially for the good seats. I had a 94 Lancia Delta HPE td 90pk and still regret that I sold it, a couple of years ago this car was for sale at € 500 but had no place to store it...
Lancia Delta Integrale HF 🇮🇹 is still one of my favourite car >>> Totally enjoy this informative & Classy presentation indeed! 🙏 Thank You So Much Number 27 for the effort & for sharing! Stay Safe & Stay Healthy Sir! 🌷🌿🌍💜🕊
Thanks! Informative and passionate. I had a Beta berlina and later a Thema turbo and remember both cars with great affection.
I had a Delta Integrale. It was a great car, but you shouldn't need to put up any car on a ramp, to check (never mind replace) the indicator bulbs.
Lancia had a good future until the Beta 'scandal'. They acted honourably but naively on that one. All the stuff after it - the Prisma, 'Deadra' etc was easy meat for BMW and Co. The Thema wasn't a bad car but Fiat didn't need it. As it stands Lancia haven't made one interesting car since the last Integrale.
There were 10 years between the "Beta scandal" and the Prisma... during which a couple (or more) of nice Lancia models came to market. That aside, the "Beta scandal" was a purely UK affair.
Thank you so much for posting such a pro-Lancia video. Yes, Alfas are great, but Lancia also put out some beautiful cars.
The Stratos is well known in this part of the far west as an amazing but handful to handle. There are some other modles not as well known but are quite handsome TY 4 sharing
"the awful series 2 delta" kind of hit me, I have one and it was such a fun thing that I decided to put a fiat bravo 2.0 inline 5 in it
That opening music from the news at 10 really brought me back. Wow.😊
When I lived in Rome in 1971/2, I had a Flavia 1.8 Berlina, great car. Always wanted a 1.6HF Fulvia. An old Rome friend has a 1957 Aurelia spider that was used in a film in the late 1950s. Don't remember the name of it, but one night we were going to Trastevere on Lungotevere at 160 kph, through flashing yellow traffic lights. Thank God, traffic was light at that time of the evening 2220-2230.
5:42 That Fulvia. Stunning.
I always looked at Lancia as a premium Italian car maker. I own 2 Fiat Coupe 20vt's, the engine unit etc. is from Lancia, I was lucky enough to see in person a mint Lancia Delta, wow what a stunner. I always felt sad that Lancia became a heart wrenching ugly duck, but I think Fiat and its sub brands in general were on the decline as well. I wish there was more passion now than just trying to make a profit. Thanks for the insight, I did realise Lancia was in formular 1, I guess that passion really didn't pay off...
You have this the wrong way round. The engine in your Fiat Coupé is 100% FIAT . The last Lancia engine was produced for the Gamma in the early 70s and was disastrous. Since then everything mechanical in a Lancia has been FIAT-sourced, though sometimes Lancia got to differentiate suspension design.
My very first car was in fact a Lancia - and that being German is pretty unusual in itself. Sadly it wasn't one of Lancia's greatest, far from it. It was a 1999 Y 1.2 16V elefantino rosso - an 86hp Alcantara dressed quirky Fiat Punto. But I loved it, apart from being broken all the time.
Great breakdown. My late father loved Lancia. Owned a Beta from new. Even back then it was way ahead of its time. And no rust on this one.
Without doubt Lancia used to make some nice cars. I do think the engine mount issue did a lot of harm to the company. but I take your point about Mercedes who over came their rust problem. Interesting conclusions Jack, thank you.👍👍
Great point!
The engine mount issue was such only in the UK... where it was incorrectly reported by the media (quelle surprise)
Bravo bello! Nice to hear Lancia pronounced properly!! (Born in Edinburgh-but Italian father! Lol) Lancia produced some fabulous innovative cars as Top Gear did feature in one of their programmes. Lovely to see you flying the flag for them!
Oh cool! Thanks Adrian and a wave to Scotland!
I’m 26. Basically saying I missed the era of Lancia. I love racing games so Lancia has always showed it’s face somewhere. I absolutely adore their car designs. Undeniably have some of the greatest gems in their collection and it’s sad to they’ll never get a chance to revive the brand.
P.S. The Fulvia Coupe Rallye is one of the most beautiful cars ever created!
Interesting video and would agree the beta rust issue wasn't the nail in the coffin. In the uk at least the effort put into lancia by fiat was very poor. At the height of Lancia sales in the 70s in the uk, they sold around 11000 cars a year I believe. A little less than half that in the mid 80s. So they weren't dead. I've had many themas and I think you're a little unfair there. Very enjoyable and reliable cars, which were more interesting than the competition. I also had kappas and a thesis here in the UK. Kappa sedan styling not great, but lovely to drive. The thesis is anything but dull and brilliantly finished and refined. Too much tech too soon sadly. Agree alfa got the attention but that hasnt been a success either. Much of it in the uk down to sheep mentality, biased journalism and the Germans somehow having a quality reputation. Which is hilariously ironic. Sadly.
And to add, the chrysler thema, Flavia and voyager were an utter disgrace by the then fiat management. Delta 3 I thought was a fair try...
Another really entertaining and interesting bit of content Jack! .... I think they should leave Lancia dead I mean look at the abomination that is revived MG..... Brands best left I think unfortunately 👍
I’m inclined to agree, much as I’d still like to see Lancia (and SAAB and Rover for that matter) return with a superb car. Platform and power plant sharing means that in all honesty, a new Lancia is likely to be a re-badged and lightly re-worked Peugeot, Citroen (my moneys on the DS brand donating a platform), or maybe even an Opel with Lancia badging………such a sad end to what was one of the greats!
@@simonhodgetts6530 well said! I think you're absolutely spot on 👍
I rented an MG pickup in Thailand last year and it wasn't bad. Interior was more VW though and I couldn't identify the engine supplier, wasn't one I recognised.
We had a dealer in the neighborhood in the 60s and I was frequently in there looking at the cars and picking up brochures. I particularly liked the Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. I've seen perhaps three of them on the road in fifty years along with a very few Fulvia coupes. Rust was a very big problem in this climate with road salt even back then. I still love those cars but they're just not around any more to be restored.
Had a Lancia Thema for a while until the clutch wore out and I couldn't find a replacement. Good performance, but I had to hold on to the steering wheel very tightly because it had a tendency to shake itself from my grip when I hit the accelerator. Very comfortable car, fitted with equipment like electric sunroof that were extras on other makes and models. Fond memories.
I am a Lancia owner and fan. Lancia’s history of Innovation, Quality and Motorsport Heritage, could and should be used by FIAT to Market the Lancia Brand and New Models. There is no Such Thing as an Ugly Lancia, until the later years when they were using Rebadged Chrysler Cars. I look forward to the day LANCIA Bring Out New Models and Take Their Rightful Place in Rallying.
Thank you for the historical recapture! It's a sad story indeed.
Totally enjoying your content! I've been binge watching your Influenzo Saga and Bismerc videos.
You definitely deserve more subscribers! Keep up the good work Sir✌✌👏
The rust thing was a issue in humid or wet countries like northern european ones.
But here in Spain or in Italy rust was non-existant. Lancias were even more popular down here compared to Alfa Romeo.
Lancia, one of my favourite car manufactures of all time....
Yes apparently Alfa Romeo had better brand exposure with the GTV and spiders, and no one ever heard of Lancia !!!???(Sarcasm). Really great business decision. Especially how the price of a used Alfa Romeo 4C is similar to the price of an Audi R8 with a V8 and all wheel drive. Plus I've heard a few 4C's and they sound like tractors.
Fiat screwed the pooch on Alfa Romeo just as much as they did with Lancia.
Wrong! LANCIA's revival and successes of the '70ties was due to ABARTH. Just acquired by FIAT in 1972/'73 ! They had ABARTH engines and tech.
After de success of LANCIA in rally sports FIAT wanted success of their own models to boost sales like the FIAT 131 Millefiori. This car also had ABARTH engines and tech. Just earlier the FIAT ABARTH 126 (SE028) got stuck in development due to lack of power. See the book of Sergio Limone. And please do not forget the Autobianchi A112 Abarth. This little rally car was later badged LANCIA A112.
En fin, after the success of FIAT own models in rally sports FIAT focused on racing again with the Alfa Romeo 75 and 155. These also had ABARTH engines and tech.
Thank you for this concise refresher. I fondly recall the family Aurelia and, later, my own elegantly proportioned Fulvia Rally with sewing machine sized motor. I wonder what an EV generation Lancia could be.
Great Rough Rider/Buggy Champs at your sides! FIAT hosed Lancia a number of times, including stopping the evolution of the Stratos in favour of their own 131 Abarth. Great episode btw!
I became addicted to Lancia in 1982 when I bought my first Lancia, a 1978 HPE 1.6 in White. Since then all I wanted was Lancia, until Fiat withdrew Lancia almost entirely from the market. Up until probably the year 2000, Lancia had never built an ugly car.
Again a nice and sharp video. Actually, the exact Sport team of Lancia who worked and won in rallies with Lancia Delta Integrale was shifted to Alfa Romeo DTM. And they won in Germany against merc Benz sport. The mechanic and transmission of the Alfa DTM was the exact copy of the Delta Integrale 4WD transmission. And someone said even Toyota Celica Rally 4WD suspensions were copied from Delta Integrale Rally of the end of 1980s.
Great video, my employer in Birmingham in the early ninety got a delta intergrala turbo, I was blown away the power of it, I really miss cars like that. Thanks again
It’s sad that Fiat didn’t try and do something like the VW Audi Group has managed to do seemingly keep all its separate car Manufacturers going without sacrificing one over another
Growing up (even till this day), there has only been 3 cars I have been obsessed about. A Porsche 911, Lancia Stratos and Lancia Delta Integrale HP... Since my childhood and teenage years Lancia just got my blood pumping along with Porsche... Mind you, I grew up in Apartheid South Africa as a person of colour and the Stratos had a production run of only 500 units and the Integrale was only left hand produced (here we are right hand drive)... Irrespective of the odds, Lancia still captured my heart with hose two models...
I still drive a series 3 Delta and I like it very much. Mine is a 1.9 190hp twin turbo diesel with 230.000km and still going strong.
It's comfy and very well sound proofed. Not to mention that it very pretty (at least in my book). :)
I am pretty confident that I will never again drive such a good car for such a small amount of money.
Stellantis has too many brands. Even with Lancia gone, they don’t have enough room for all of them.
When Fiat bought Alfa, they should have sold Lancia off to another car company who could have worked with the brand while it was still salvageable.
These days, I don’t know who would buy it. Maybe a tech start up who wants to build a high-end sporty EV?
But I think we’re on the cusp on a mass-extinction of brands; Jaguar in particular isn’t looking good.
Thank you for your excellent explanation of the reasons for Lancia's demise. The D50 might have been the start of Lancia's downfall, but it was also the most gloriously beautiful F1 car ever made.
This is such a sad tale. My last Lancia was the Thema 8.32, what a gem at the time. And the workmanship and detail to interior workmanship was unprecedented. The deep roar of the Ferrari V8 in comparison to the tinny sounding 308 and 328's. Again how sad. FIAT please resurrect this marvellous brand.
I am sure there must be potential for a Lancia relaunch as a premium brand in the Fiat group in the same way as Citroen has done with DS. Lancia - premium, Alfa Romeo - sporty, Fiat - family cars. That said however, Fiat Chrysler and PSA (which includes DS) are now part of the same group spanning 16 different brands so it is probable that in the fullness of time rationalisation and streamlining will have to take place to ensure the group's survival going forward.
The same fate Fiat imposed to Lancia, Autobianchi and in my opinion, Alfa Romeo, is being imposed to them by Stellantis. Losing identity, becoming a badge and then disappear, that is.
I am an electronic engineer who was working for Magneti Marelli on engine control firmware in Bologna in the early '90s. When the first camouflaged series 2 Delta arrived, we were quite anxious to see what would the series one Delta successor be like. I vividly remember the WTF moment when we looked at that 'thing'. I think that the history of what Fiat turned Lancia into is an example of how an incompetent management succesfully snatched irrelevance from the jaws of past glory...
Forever in our hearts and minds for the ones that understand. Thanks Fiat, and thanks Alfa for grinding the one of the greatest and stylish innovators to dust.
Thank you for that explanation. As someone who has owned four Lancias I'm appalled at what they've become .
The Flavia coupè remains one of my all time favourites. Toyota and Nissan have Lexus and Infiniti as premium brands. Fiat could do the same with Lancia, promoting quality and exclusivity with unique styling and engineering. It seems to me that the car industry is no place for people who love cars.
I'm American, and sadly only first heard about Lancia a couple of years ago - even that was by chance, it was from reading Inspector Morse, who in the books drives a Lancia. It seems like Lancia is going down the same foxhole that SAAB did, a mildly-profitable smaller car company with products overengineered by engineers and a cult following - only to be owned by a mass volume owner who has no idea and no desire to manage or hold stewardship over it.
I should have known you're a '72er too. Had a Dedra in the early 90's and loved it to bits...until it fell to bits. The old Lancia styling is wonderful and it's a shame that now again Alfa Romeo is chosen as 'luxury brand' while it should have been Lancia.
Lancia & Alfa Romeo are dead because of Front wheel drive.
Biggest mistake ever! Take a look at BMW and AUDI and where there are now. What a shame!
I was enjoying this until you told me the Dedra was dire!! ... I LOVED my L reg - one of the last Lancias imported to the UK.
Thanks Jack, interesting story. Quality is good, but always has to be balanced by more competitive production methods to keep pace with others.
Some of those later Lancias designs were shocking, who signed them off?! 🙏🙏
Yep.. was truly bizarre what they were willing to pass off as Lancias. Fiat had just lost interest by then
@@Number27 😊😊
Good video but please stop pronouncing the cars names in an Italian accent, you sound like ex England manager Steve McLaren with his dodgy Dutch accent 😂
Alfa is also killing fiat and that is the fate of Alfa ,beautiful but deadly .As for lancia ,lancia was never a big seller but under fiat was selling well ,you mentioned delta second series as awful which is unfair because at the time boxy edge design like first series was out of fashion so the second series was up to fashion of the 90’s .Yes it hadn’t an all wheel drive version but the car was good (I have a 94 model) in fact the design was so good that some cars of 00s were imitating it and when I say imitation I mean the lines and the overall shape.Also the second series can blend with modern cars even today unlike the first series which screams 80s.Most of people think that lancia is delta Integrale and rallies but if you look carefully lancia is sporty and luxurious not a pure racing machine .Lancia before the acquisition of Alfa was Fiat’s ambassador in everything because some felt that the badge of fiat was too little .You also mentioned the abomination of the third series but the purpose of delta was always to bring something different than the usual ,so all the generations are faithful to that .The design that for some was radical in the third series how it is now acceptable in every modern hatchback?and nobody is criticizing it?The 3rd series isn’t a bad car in fact if in fiat didn’t listen to Marchionne and his nonsense plans they could transform her to an excellent suv .As a driver of both lancia delta 3 and Alfa Romeo giulietta ,lancia has more space,more comfort and it is a true luxury car .Alfa is more sporty and compact but with delta you are in another driving experience.Lancia has future if people in Stellantis give her a chance ,and if all the others stop comparing the myth of a rally car to an every day car .
I think the biggest problem, with any of the italian brands, are peoples perception of them and after sales. German cars aren''t especially good but their treatment of of customers are. The fact that a car goes wrong is not a problem in it self but it people remember the outcome of the whole experience. Mercedes was used as an example in this video and they replaced a lot of doors and fenders even out of warranty. No one seems to remember how badly the mid -00 Volkswagens rusted and that also has to do with how the company reacted to the problem. Everyone remembers how badly the 156 floor pans rusted.
What killed the Delta was the Cosworth
Jolly Club ran the Works Deltas for Agnelli
Jolly Club switched to Cosworths
The End 🇮🇹
Sad indeed, such a domineering force in their day, they stood out from other cars and became bland rebadged non descript atrocious vehicles, standing for none of the values of the original name. I still own my Integrale Evo I and intend to keep enjoying that special Lancia driving experience for many years.
Fiat, Lancia and Alfa Romeo lost their identity. The worst was to badged Chrysler cars as Lancia. Genial Marchionne!
The develop,ents over the past few months give hope . You are right it wasn’t rust it was putting out dull products. Also pulling the Delta and not replacing it with a proper car.
Every single lancia model has an insanely weird detail in some part. However what caused lancia’s death il the simple fact that fiat, lancia, alfa romeo and ferrari are part of the same factory. So we have economic cars with fiat, middle range sport cars with the Alfa Romeo and top tier sports car with ferrari. Lancia was just useless in the market. Same thing happened with Chevrolet, disappeared from Italian market to leave space to opel.
So much has been said about the "fatality" of the Lancia brand that continuing to point out mistakes is like "hitting the blind man". I have always found the models pointed out as the culprits of failure to be interesting and distinctive. The fact that the criticism is made about the not-so-recent past of the 80s and 90s seems strange to me, as in that period the brand probably experienced its greatest period of fame and commercial success. There are those who understand that the brand was only worth what it did in competition and that any car other than a Delta Integrale did not represent the spirit of the brand. I believe that those who think like that never knew how to appreciate, truly, the Lancia brand. Competition was an aspect explored within the brand, but that did not represent the oldest tradition of the brand, which was one of refinement and elevation without presumption, be it status or speed and strength. It has always been stronger in terms of innovation, subtlety and differentiation from the competition. And this was honored in such a way that demand was no longer enough to maintain this tradition. The new generations are no longer so sensitive to this tradition and the brand cannot sell just to the old school people. That's why it's being reinvented to fulfill a new market demand. So, wait for it, and you'll see the new target of Lancia.
Thx, this was a great video. Very sad indeed, even though I've never owned a Lancia, I have a few of the components on my Uno Turbo.
Mercedes may rust on the body and frame, but the customer could drive the car for over 10 years and get huge mileage out of the machine, and it would start every time.
It was the rust that killed Lancia in the end, no question, you can't put the key in the ignition and expect the car to start when the engine is lying on the driveway.