@@DelandArtie By allocating your resources to purchasing an existing building... if they are meeting in a school cafeteria I'm sure he's paying the school... I think its a waste of resources and money..
I find that this approach of renting churches for profit and being so business minded really pushing people away from Church. i am not sure how Christ will feel with all this trading going on... Well I kinda know!
Love what you said about the church being "experimental". When we have the Holy Spirit doing His thing and moving the church forward how could the church NOT be experimental and try to discover what's next? The more we step out and experiment the more God reveals the steps we need to take next. Obviously the message never changes but the methods should always be changing. I appreciate you guys leading the way on how to effectively experiment with things in this technological shift that we're living in.
You're so right, Josh. We follow the God of the Exodus - the one who is always on the move. In the same way that the church of Acts didn't disapprove of the move of God and ask for something that looked more like a parting of seas, we too should keep looking forward and letting the Wind blow where it pleases!
What percentage of people posting in that group are there to sell solutions to the issue they are raising? That’s pretty much all I see in “ministry” groups on Facebook these days. Didn’t start that way but has become such a turnoff.
@@TheVictoryMan42 still here. The Lord brought us through, we learned a lot, made a lot of mistakes, experienced more pain and disappointment than I could have ever imagined, but now years of sowing are starting to pay and I'm beyond grateful. Totally forgot about this original post, to be honest. Thanks for bringing me back.
Wondering how the revenue streams could cover operations...I feel like maybe medium sized churches could best try this? (200-500 people). Both churches I've worked in had salary expenses of 3.4 and 1.7million. So to cover that by alternative revenue would mean $9000 or $4500 a day. Which rentals and even more creative arms like music, books, resources, etc couldnt realistically cover I feel. Any thoughts on where the ideal balance could lie?
As Brady shared, some churches run a preschool or like that bookstore you mentioned. If done well, it can rake in a good amount, but it requires a whole team on its own.
Ppl dun pay for the church services per se, but they can pay membership for rental of facilities (for meetings or studio use) or access to library or bookstore discounts, or as in the case of my church, digital Christian courses and online classes.
For 50 bucks you’re soul gets saved. 100 bucks a week gets you a bowl of chicken wings when in heaven. 1,000 a week means you become not only an angle but also can one day become a god. I’d run it like a business. Have a store selling god shit while others prayed. I’d also charge people 10 dollars per person per hour to prayer.
Isn't church already kind of a social club, though? We have cafes, group events, sports nights, much like a rec centre, too. We're just exclusive - to join this social club you have to believe a, b, and c. I think the future of the church looks very similar to how it does now, just less tribal. We're moving away from us vs. them to an us *for* them model that has room for everyone.
Yeah I don't think of that as being "unfortunate" or "sad." We forget that Christianity was born in a Jewish context, in which the Temple was literally the center of gravity for the entire community. I for one would love to see a church building bustling from Monday through Saturday. "Social club" needn't be construed as a dirty word.
@@SouthernAurora Sounds awfully anecdotal, Amanda. I'd venture to say it's impossible for 15K people a week to walk through a church and not encounter love - and to know love is to know God. It sounds like your former church is serving their community and meeting their needs, just like Christ did!
@@SouthernAurora You don't *know anyone who has accepted Jesus because they've been shown the love of Jesus?* I gotta be honest...that's literally the ONLY way I've seen people come to know Christ personally.
Ok, one one hand the church is a business, on the other, it is like a town hall slash community of equal minded thinkers that believe in a higher cause. But the way they described church in this video sort of made it sound like a predatory social media company. No offense, I was raised in a more strict Christian environment which I sort of use as a guide line in my life. I really cannot relate to modern church as a business model when business is what pushes the mission of the organization as a whole you know. I did use the adjective strict, but the truth is well the is a fine line between the roman empire and the none roman empire if you catch my meaning.
So the “operations” funds vs. “benevolence” funds you mention is an OT concept that there are TITHES and OFFERINGS which are two things. This shouldn’t be a new concept, but a Biblical concept that has gone by.
I don't think that's what I'm talking about here. Here I'm saying all congregational giving would go towards benevolence. Church operations would be funded from third-party sources of revenue separate from tithes/offering/congregational giving.
@@prochurchtools 3rd party revenue sources-would that be un-Biblical? Where God requires a Tithe from his people, that wasn't abolished in the NT. It seems we are advocating a "pocket giving" mentality.
You don't build anything. Chirst will build HIS church. Without the working of the Holy Spirit, nothing lasting will be built. Most of these new non-denominational meg churches have forgot one thing.... prayer.
🙂Church is a business, from Jesus view. Luke 2:49, KJV: And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
I suspect your model of unlinking operational budget and Multi-use property is the church of the future. BTW it's the way the Apostle Paul worked as well. My other input is that you need to set metrics and measure in a way that doesn't threaten people but rather informs people. Is there a video you have done on this? Great Video.
How is singing from stage any more pastoral or worshipful than designing graphics or creating social media posts or making blueprints for a sanctuary? Each are creative in nature and can be done for the glory of God.
@@prochurchtools Singing from the stage is not. Worship Leading is. A worship leader should be more than a singer or musician, they should be teaching the congregation about worship. A worship leader should be more than a band director they should be a spiritual leader as well. The original worship leaders were the priests. It is supposed to be a pastoral role, not just a simple lead rehearsals and play music role. I am not saying that graphic designers and tech and communication directors CAN'T be pastoral, but it isn't inherently so. Leading people to do the thing we were made to do, worship, is a heavy responsibility, and not one to be outsourced.
@@DerekBarolet Yeah, I think you're conflating the all-encompassing act of worship with the specific medium of music a bit too much here. We've made the term "worship" synonymous with "church music" in a lot of ways - which is a bit too narrow for my liking. But I understand what you're saying.
@@prochurchtools fair enough. But you can see how a head pastor listening to this might think, oh, I can just outsource my worship leader, all I need is someone that plays and sings well.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
As a portable church that meets in a school cafeteria, how would you move to not depending on the giving? Love the idea.
Move from the school to start investing into a property for the church... A property that can facilitate future growth
@@elijahsplaytime2540 How do you start investing into a property for the church?
@@DelandArtie By allocating your resources to purchasing an existing building... if they are meeting in a school cafeteria I'm sure he's paying the school... I think its a waste of resources and money..
I find that this approach of renting churches for profit and being so business minded really pushing people away from Church. i am not sure how Christ will feel with all this trading going on... Well I kinda know!
Hey, would love to join that Christian entrepreneur group!
It's called Entrepreneurs on Mission!
Love what you said about the church being "experimental". When we have the Holy Spirit doing His thing and moving the church forward how could the church NOT be experimental and try to discover what's next? The more we step out and experiment the more God reveals the steps we need to take next. Obviously the message never changes but the methods should always be changing. I appreciate you guys leading the way on how to effectively experiment with things in this technological shift that we're living in.
You're so right, Josh. We follow the God of the Exodus - the one who is always on the move. In the same way that the church of Acts didn't disapprove of the move of God and ask for something that looked more like a parting of seas, we too should keep looking forward and letting the Wind blow where it pleases!
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I have been dying to hear someone talk like this since 2014!!!
What percentage of people posting in that group are there to sell solutions to the issue they are raising? That’s pretty much all I see in “ministry” groups on Facebook these days. Didn’t start that way but has become such a turnoff.
Do you know of any churches that have church operations 100% separate from congregational giving?
Running a successful ministry does require some good business practices. For sure.
I think the next message in in your background sign should be "Discover Corn"
This is good! What was point #2? Not sure I was clear on it. Got point 1 and 3
I'm turning 30 in August and church planting in the Fall. You had me crying 😆😆
Sounds like perfect timing 😉
How did it go?
@@TheVictoryMan42 still here. The Lord brought us through, we learned a lot, made a lot of mistakes, experienced more pain and disappointment than I could have ever imagined, but now years of sowing are starting to pay and I'm beyond grateful. Totally forgot about this original post, to be honest. Thanks for bringing me back.
@tff3456 we thank God for his mercies.
@@TSpoon823how’s it going?
Before you kid yourself about church being a business, PAY your volunteers FIRST.
No. The paid staff have/will replace volunteers in Corporate thinking Church. Another pandemic will again stop & delay organized religion.
GOD Will Bring Whatever You Need To Past In JESUS Name!
Even Jesus said that He was about His father's buisness. How can someone NOT see church being ran as a buisness?
His Father's business was saving the lost souls not getting rich off the backs of His followers
Hi I am grateful for you massage
This is the best episode of yours I've watched so far. Keep up the amazing work guys!
Awesome Video- entertaining too! 😊
Wondering how the revenue streams could cover operations...I feel like maybe medium sized churches could best try this? (200-500 people). Both churches I've worked in had salary expenses of 3.4 and 1.7million. So to cover that by alternative revenue would mean $9000 or $4500 a day. Which rentals and even more creative arms like music, books, resources, etc couldnt realistically cover I feel. Any thoughts on where the ideal balance could lie?
As Brady shared, some churches run a preschool or like that bookstore you mentioned. If done well, it can rake in a good amount, but it requires a whole team on its own.
can a church have paid membership with benefits?
Ppl dun pay for the church services per se, but they can pay membership for rental of facilities (for meetings or studio use) or access to library or bookstore discounts, or as in the case of my church, digital Christian courses and online classes.
OK. What system would work for a small church to register every aspect of ministry? A database perhaps? Thank you.
09:20 bitcorn haha
Arm.. Arm.. Leg.. Leg.. Head.. Head.. that’s a 2-headed what we gon’ wear today?
The Church as a business.. Hmm.. Well, I would stay out of that type of church.
For 50 bucks you’re soul gets saved. 100 bucks a week gets you a bowl of chicken wings when in heaven. 1,000 a week means you become not only an angle but also can one day become a god.
I’d run it like a business. Have a store selling god shit while others prayed. I’d also charge people 10 dollars per person per hour to prayer.
I think the church of future is going to look more like a rec center/social club campus. Lots of churches already have preschools.
Isn't church already kind of a social club, though? We have cafes, group events, sports nights, much like a rec centre, too. We're just exclusive - to join this social club you have to believe a, b, and c. I think the future of the church looks very similar to how it does now, just less tribal. We're moving away from us vs. them to an us *for* them model that has room for everyone.
Yeah I don't think of that as being "unfortunate" or "sad." We forget that Christianity was born in a Jewish context, in which the Temple was literally the center of gravity for the entire community. I for one would love to see a church building bustling from Monday through Saturday. "Social club" needn't be construed as a dirty word.
@@gordontubbs So true!
@@SouthernAurora Sounds awfully anecdotal, Amanda. I'd venture to say it's impossible for 15K people a week to walk through a church and not encounter love - and to know love is to know God. It sounds like your former church is serving their community and meeting their needs, just like Christ did!
@@SouthernAurora You don't *know anyone who has accepted Jesus because they've been shown the love of Jesus?* I gotta be honest...that's literally the ONLY way I've seen people come to know Christ personally.
Incredible! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 thank u 🙏🏼
I didn't know Church was a Business. Did I miss something when reading the Bible?
Lost churches run by egotists. This is how to not depend on the congregation or if you don't like me you can leave approach.
Ok, one one hand the church is a business, on the other, it is like a town hall slash community of equal minded thinkers that believe in a higher cause. But the way they described church in this video sort of made it sound like a predatory social media company. No offense, I was raised in a more strict Christian environment which I sort of use as a guide line in my life. I really cannot relate to modern church as a business model when business is what pushes the mission of the organization as a whole you know. I did use the adjective strict, but the truth is well the is a fine line between the roman empire and the none roman empire if you catch my meaning.
So the “operations” funds vs. “benevolence” funds you mention is an OT concept that there are TITHES and OFFERINGS which are two things. This shouldn’t be a new concept, but a Biblical concept that has gone by.
I don't think that's what I'm talking about here. Here I'm saying all congregational giving would go towards benevolence. Church operations would be funded from third-party sources of revenue separate from tithes/offering/congregational giving.
@@prochurchtools 3rd party revenue sources-would that be un-Biblical? Where God requires a Tithe from his people, that wasn't abolished in the NT. It seems we are advocating a "pocket giving" mentality.
Kevin Soodsma No. It’s just using the tithes differently. Instead of paying for the mortgage, utilities, and salaries - use it for benevolence.
@@kevinsoodsma270God doesn't require a wage tithe from His people
I’m a worker in the church and only get $100 at Christmas.
You don't build anything. Chirst will build HIS church. Without the working of the Holy Spirit, nothing lasting will be built. Most of these new non-denominational meg churches have forgot one thing.... prayer.
🙂Church is a business, from Jesus view.
Luke 2:49, KJV: And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Sorry guys, it's pecan.
I'm still wondering about pecan, but It is absolutely not rhubarb!!!!!
I love Y'all
Love you too, Mauricio!
I suspect your model of unlinking operational budget and Multi-use property is the church of the future. BTW it's the way the Apostle Paul worked as well.
My other input is that you need to set metrics and measure in a way that doesn't threaten people but rather informs people. Is there a video you have done on this?
Great Video.
Here's our guide on metrics/measurement for churches: blog.nucleus.church/church-growth/
I like most of it. But worship is inherently a pastoral role. You should not be outsourcing it.
How is singing from stage any more pastoral or worshipful than designing graphics or creating social media posts or making blueprints for a sanctuary? Each are creative in nature and can be done for the glory of God.
@@prochurchtools
Singing from the stage is not.
Worship Leading is. A worship leader should be more than a singer or musician, they should be teaching the congregation about worship. A worship leader should be more than a band director they should be a spiritual leader as well.
The original worship leaders were the priests. It is supposed to be a pastoral role, not just a simple lead rehearsals and play music role.
I am not saying that graphic designers and tech and communication directors CAN'T be pastoral, but it isn't inherently so. Leading people to do the thing we were made to do, worship, is a heavy responsibility, and not one to be outsourced.
@@DerekBarolet Yeah, I think you're conflating the all-encompassing act of worship with the specific medium of music a bit too much here. We've made the term "worship" synonymous with "church music" in a lot of ways - which is a bit too narrow for my liking. But I understand what you're saying.
@@prochurchtools fair enough. But you can see how a head pastor listening to this might think, oh, I can just outsource my worship leader, all I need is someone that plays and sings well.
3:30 hahahahahahahhaha
Hmm, rhubarb.
So much more. We are Shepards of souls. Why wouldn't we be good stewards, good leaders?
It's all about the Benjamins.