Nice to see the Glide API on Need for speed II. Back then, my dad bought the Diamond Multimedia RIVA TNT 16mb AGP, and it outperformed or was on par with a single Voodoo2 in OpenGL and D3d. I never had a Voodoo2 to add onto my RIVA TNT until much later, so I was never able to see this game in Glide, but Need for Speed 2 was one of those games that still looked great in software mode
Before this clip I've never seen any of them in Glide, not even out of curiosity, and I was kind of shocked how good NFS3 looked. NFS2 was really better in software mode but it was obvious that the development team was trying various things with the glide engine. Glide was really above the D3D and OGL up until maybe 1998. But afterwards the others were beginning to catch up. By 2000 the voodoo cards were outclassed, but I was happy to see that Porsche had little things extra in Glide mode I think that the developers enjoyed working with it.
The reason intel and AMD use CPUs on a card, was because Cache memory wasn't integrated in the CPU die, and relied on external chips that were rather large, hence the need of doing an all in one package. The socket 370 and socket A CPUs that replaced slot 1 and slot A) had cache on the chip.
Some of that software rendering is quite impressive, like the shiny environment mapping on the cars in NFS3. Wasn't expecting that. I can understand why the early 3dfx ones went with a totally different skybox to complement the fog effect, but I'm glad the later games made things look more similar across different rendering modes.
Yes, At some point trying to synchronize the 2 clips in NFS2 I was wondering if it's the same replay or whether I'm completely off with my synchronization. Things still look different in the future games but like you said they tended to be more similar. One thing I notice was in NFS Porsche that the lens flare from the Sun only appears once for the DX implementation and fades away quicker than the Glide that has an additional 3 lens flares throughout the stage. Also there's one curious thing about the replays... The Glide one is like 5(or more) pixels lower than the software one, that is why sometimes I crop elements of the screen.
NFS porsche is imo the best title in entire franchise (up to 2022). It holds special place in my heart. It got old, no doubt as it's 20+ year old game but the feeling, music, tracks, cars and PHYSICS - it's all damn great and it's possible to play with modern steering wheels and it feels even better. Probably better than sex
I have to admit that I stopped playing the franchise after Most Wanted (the one that came after Underground2). I really enjoyed that one and the first Underground (the second was ok but I had to travel a too much) but Porsche has hit different. Almost a SIM but still enjoyable. For me this is a game that I constantly return to but I abandoned for a while as newer graphics card could not play it, until I discovered the 4k patch (or you can do it manually using nglide) and I even found it a bit more enjoyable as the voodoo version has this tiny graphical goodies that simply were not there in the Direct X version. This is how I came with the idea to create this clip, DirectX/Software vs Glide. Thank you for your comment. (I would have liked I few more tracks but I still enjoy the rest like I did 20+ years ago)
Again, I was never that into driving games. More of an FPS player. But I remember seeing a preview for NFS : Porsche on Cybernet on ITV at like 2:30AM one morning. And the way the car models rolled, the fluidity of the gameplay, the graphics - everything looked amazing! So I found the game on an FTP somewhere and downloaded it, and I spent the next entire month playing through the game. It was superb! The only NFS game I ever liked really. And the way the game developed, with you starting with the oldest most trash car, and slowly aquiring newer models as time advanced, and then upgrading them, and customizing them to suit certain events / races better. It was timeless. One of the best racing games ever, and certainly the most forward thinking or it's era. Apart from GT Legends, I've not enjoyed a racing game as much as NFS : Porsche. Perhaps Carmageddon but - that's hardly a real racing game, is it? :D
Indeed, I was a little to young (or poor) for a computer during the carmageddon period but Nfs Porsche was a favorite of mine for a long time. I think that only gran turismo 1 (ps1) was the only game I also enyojed a lot. Of course Nfs underground and most wanted were really good but I never really returned to them during the past years. While I always look for a method to play Porsche whenever I change my computer/video card. I also found the driving style of Mafia from 2001 to be quite attractive.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Never played Mafia. Didn't even realize the games were good until very recently. 2001-2004 I was pretty much exclusively playing Quake III OSP. But I did download the Mafia Remastered games last year. Plan on taking a loot at them when I get time. I work in a school now, primarilly with autistic or other special needs kids. One lad I worked with, named Tom, the only way I found to connect with him and gain his trust, was by talking about Manga (Anime?) and gaming. Being old, my manga knowledge was limited to Ninja Scrolls, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Studio Ghibli etc. But in gaming, I can talk for hours. He told me, constantly, about Mafia games! Once those remasters came out - he played them all. And the way to get him through an entire physics or biology lesson, was to intermittently talk about the Mafia games. Which he constantly pressured me to play. I have my own kids to look after, which is hard enough, and I would never find the time to play through those games. But I watch TH-cam playthroughs, so I could at least converse about them. Worked a treat! Thats basically how I got him through his exams, at the end of his secondary school period. I hatched the plan with his mum, who would call me EVERY NIGHT, and worked it out with my boss too. Worked a treat. And he ended up with some good grades. One day I should play some Mafia. I remember back in the early 2000s, my big brother played the original game and sang praises about it. And hes not even a gamer! But it kept him occupied for a month or so! And he was playing it on the pretty underpowered system I'd built for him for free, out of spare parts. I guess thats one for my future. If my brother, and autistic Tom tell me it's good - then I'll believe em.
@@TheVanillatech I think you should start with the original one and move to the second, then go strait to the remaster. I'm not sure Mafia 3 is worth checking out.
Not all of us were lucky. I played it on an integrated SIS graphics card so my contact with the glide version only happened when I put together this clip, and I'm very happy I did. But now I'll have to put together a PC to have around when I want to play the game :)
Sorry, I didn't even look into that. For me the goal was to have a perfect resolution copy in software mode. So as long as glide wasn't able to go past 1024x768 I didn't even try. Right now I can't remember but I think even in glide I ran the games in 800x600 just to make sure I get the best framerate. The cpu needed at least another 200mhz to make the best of the SLI and also these are the 8Mb Voodoo2 version. Nfs porsche definitely handled more than 1024x768 in D3D mode.
Screamer 2, Screamer Rally, Carmageddon, Twisted Metal II, Road Rash, Rollcage, NFS Porsche 2000, NFS Underground, GT Legends, 4D Racing (aka Stunts), Test Drive 2, Motoracer, Test Drive Unlimited, Extreme G 2 .... considering I don't like driving games, shit we played a lot of them over the years on PC!
This is a long list and not all of them are 3dfx glide, anyway I'll try to group them by years or engine/API and I'll create new projects to try to get as many as possible. Thanks for the list.
@@molchyniym1560 Cos Nvidia. They were up to their usual nefarious bullshit in business. Granted it was preceded with bad decisions from 3Dfx regarding manufacturing their cards, and from them not innovating enough regarding newer API's. But Nvidia simply went on with their "eliminate all competition, pay off developers and reviewers to shit on the remaining ones, and fleece the PC gamers" strategy. Which they are still doing in 2023! XD
@@retrodrive-thru47 Yeah I was just mentioning the driving games I've most liked over the years, OR the ones we played in LAN meetings back in the day. I forgot TOCA and TOCA 3! They were always fun at LANS. I sucked hard at them compared to the other guys, so when I was losing bad, I'd spin around and start going backwards on the track, aiming for the race leaders. Got chased out of many warehouses by angry players doing that, but it was always funny as hell!
IMO the 3dfx version of NFS2 is a huge improvement over software rendering, with the possible exception of Mystic Peaks because of how they fogged everything over so much. I also like to point out that it's possible to get even more performance with NFS Porsche on Voodoo II SLI if you edit the renderer INI file - it can do Glide rendering but defaults to DirectX with all but the original Voodoo card.
NFS2 is debatable but I have no doubt about NFS3 and NFS4. (For NFS2 I had to disable SLI as it wouldn't start). As for NFS Porsche I used the utility to switch between DX and Voodoo driver (and also checked the registry afterwards to make sure the change was valid) and it worked pretty good for me. You can see the small hints in the side by side view for example at 36:20 the lens flare lasts for a second more on the Voodoo rendering and it's not a problem of synchronization as the frames have a maximum 4-6 hundreds of a second between them. Also there are other areas of Normandy where the lens flare is totally absent on the DirectX and there are other hints like car reflections and the colors of the environment and sky. For me this was enough confirmation that I was running in Voodoo mode and not the default DirectX but if you think that this was not it I will gladly look into that if you can describe the INI files.
@@retrodrive-thru47 You may well be running NFS Porsche in Glide mode already but this recent YT video actually shows editing the INI file at 11 mins 15 secs: th-cam.com/video/LpmOE4_eHV0/w-d-xo.htmlm15s which is a great reference btw, cuz I've found this difficult to explain without a visual aid in the past. ... and that's interesting that you had to disable SLI for NFS2 cuz I have two Diamond 12MB V2's in SLI and I've never had to fuss with it for that game, it runs fine for me.
@@angieandretti Ok, that is interesting. I've checked the entries in the ini file from the system in this clip and I only have 2 entries, Software and Voodoo (luckily I haven't formatted the harddrive). This is odd. I'm currently in the process of creating another clip (on a slightly powerful CPU) that deals in part with some NFS games so I will definitely look into this thing you are mentioning and reinstall Porsche to check this setting. I also have both saves from Normandie and Code d'Azur so I can compare Glide with DX again, it may take a while but I will definitely look into this as Porsche is one of my favorites. Thanks for the heads up. (I thought that the visual differences I saw were enough confirmation that the game was running in glide mode but I may have been wrong)
You are right and I've only recently come to realize that when I noticed the poor view results of another clip about NFS evolution I've done. Thanks for the insight and this gives me an idea to use different voodoo cards to have a mini history of 3dfx.
@@retrodrive-thru47 If I ran a company my employees would study 3dfx so they would know what hubris looks like and what it does to even those who have it all. I am looking forward to your 3dfx showcase.
Don't remember about nfs2, but from nfs3 there was way to run game in d3d mode. There was some native EA 3dsetup utility, that provides switching to d3d mode
It is, and I kind of missed the chance to do the DirectX vs Glide test. It's only Porsche that runs in DirectX as they removed the software option from that utility and in general as the default option. I guess this is a good chance to come back to these and maybe some more games to look at the differences between Glide and DX.
I used to play NFS II on software, and let me tell you, it was way more immersive back then. Also it felt you were in some sort of anime or cartoon. PS. Riva TNT has better color palette
To say the CPU is 10 times slower than what we have today is missleading. Sure the frequency is the speed of the transistors switching but the amount of transistors multiplied by the frequency determines the true speed of a CPU. The amount of cores doesn't matter either, it is just for parallel workloads. One core with a lot of fast transistors will be faster than 60 cores with less transistors or slower ones in a non parallel scenario.
You are of course right, I was just comparing Megahertz to Megahertz nothing more. Even if I was able to reduce a modern CPU to 500Mhz (or increase a retro one to 5Ghz) and compare them in a single thread scenario I'm sure that they would not be equal as modern CPU have additional instructions, different length pipelines and so on. ( Actually I tried something like this with the Phenom 2 X4 in the clip where I tried to use an AM2 platform for Windows 98, while running it at 280Mhz it performed a little bit better than the k6-2@400Mhz but I was using a 200Mhz bus so it's not a fair comparison). A non parallel scenario may be possible only for windows 9x and earlier, practically the amount of cores starts to matter beginning with Windows 2000, I used to play around with the affinity under XP and send a game to a less used core where it wasn't bothered by other applications but to this day I'm not sure it helped or not :) ( maybe some benchmarking would be in order)
You should have compared the TNT (Direct X) versions to the 3Dfx versions whenever possible. I find that the limited texture size on 3Dfx kills a lot of the benefits these cards offered back in the days. That was made only more obvious when decent direct x cards like the TNT were shipped, it was even worse in games that could be run in 32-bit colors.
Yes you are right. While the first version and NFS II SE only had software, starting with the third game a direct X version was available but both Hot Pursuit and High Stakes had issues with the direct X versions. I used the Diamond driver but it didn't work, I also think I used just one version of the detonator (not very new) and there were still issues. I plan on revisiting this format but keep the games spread only over 2 years maximum for example getting games from 1996-1998 and compare software to glide. Again, another clip would get early direct x games and compare them to glide. I think I also noticed the limited texture issue you are mentioning but it manifests in the games released closer to 2000. If you have any suggestions about games where this issue is obvious please leave some titles and I will investigate. I also know about the 16bit - 32bit issue but I was under the impression that the voodoos have an internal 24bit that helps them get close to the output of 32bit card, but I will more than gladly investigate any example of this as well.
Yes, the RIVA TNT was a great card to rival the Voodoo2, especially with the 24-bit Z-buffer and 32 bit color...The 16mb still limited the texture quality in games, but was still much, much than a single Voodoo2. I remember all the effects ran well on it but textures and real-time shadows had to be limited. When the RIVA TNT came out, I knew that 3dfx was going to have problems. When the 32mb TNT2 came out that's when the textures for games started getting better. The Glide API ever came back from that as people started using Direct3D more. Eventually, I removed the Voodoo2 after upgrading to a Geforce 2 a few years later on the same hardware, then never needed a 3dfx card again, especially since these cards looked and ran better in OpenGL than the 3dfx cards did.
The clip explores all first 5 games (except the first one) from 2 angles Side by Side comparison and '50% screen SoftwareMode' to '50% screen Glide' always on different tracks(I plan to do this for other games as well). I also wanted to add a Voodoo 3 2000 just to compare it with the V2 SLI but it would have made the clip too long and also to framerate counter in glide is a bit tricky...at best. About NFS Porsche I'm not sure that I said it was a cut off, although I also have the same feeling, it's more of a simulator and less of an arcade game compared to previous games and they didn't developed anything similar ever since, also the last game to support glide in their series(although glide usually is not set as default for it)
About first compare: on right NOT "Windows" version. It's "Special Edition" version. It COULD run under Windows, BUT perfectly works and under pure DOS.
@@retrodrive-thru47 nu ai zis altceva :). Doar spuneam ca numai posesorii placilor 3dfx puteau juca NFS 2 in glide cu hardware acceleration. Cei cu placi nvidia ati matrox S3 etx nu aveau aceasta posibilitate, ei puteau doar sa il joace in Software.
NFS 5 kinda shows that the TNT (which launched only 3 months after the Voodoo2), was already pretty much ahead of the voodoo. Higher resolution textures might not have been a thing back in early 1998, but nVidia were clearly thinking ahead... not to mention that the TNT was already a DirectX6 card. While the Voodoo2 was only DX5 with maybe some DX6 features. And also the fact that you need 2x Voodoo2 for NFS5 to work as well as it does on a single TNT that's also displaying higher res textures, kinda makes you wonder!...
Indeed, but I still felt a little love from the developers for glide. Little graphical treats that can only be seen if you are really paying attention. Too bad we didn't get to see more of glide.
@@retrodrive-thru47 There were, though, 3 generations of the Glide API, AFAIK... each represented by their Glide.dll file (glide.dll, glide2x.dll and glide3x.dll). And by the end of 1999, and the launch of DX7; DirectX managed to catch up and surpass the glide API, making it pretty much obsolete. 3dfx Glide, starting as a stripped down version of OpenGL, pretty much did it's job bringing fast & good looking 3D graphics to the (very) low powered PCs of the mid 90's. But by the end of the millennium, computing power was almost 10x what is was @ '95 when Glide was conceived... so you could just use OpenGL, or the newly matured DirectX, which brought pretty much everything that 3dfx Glide did, and more... So IMO, Glide had a sufficiently long run to a) set an example of how things should be b) give us nice looking 3D games until the industry caught up :) By the year 2000, there were no tricks left up it's sleeve... 3dfx Glide was "that cool friend" or cousin, that everyone had, that used to bring you mp3s & games, before you had an internet connection :)
Yes, well, this computer had 1998 hardware that was showing it's age. What I tried here was more of a evolution video. I do plan to come back to this and split it in 3 clips. The early games like NFS2 and others that go with the V1, the golden age, the voodoo2, that will go with the NFS3,4 and the downfall where I plan to use a voodoo5 against a GF2GTS on a better PC and have a similar comparison for the glide games released in 2000 and later.
Didn't know Voodoo5 existed. Anyway, what I'm actually asking is if a Voodoo4 would be able to run all these games, because I have one, just missing the rest of the parts. I remember there being some drama with Voodoo4 and NFS3 back in the day.
Oh, yes, you could add extensions to the sound card for midi right? I kind of missed those times so I don't have that much knowledge in that area. Thanks for clearing that up.
You are right! I mention in the clip that I intended to used a sound blaster live initially but I owe a guy some really nice pc parts and he insisted I use the AWE64. I have to admit that using the onboard sound didn't even cross my mind :). But the AWE64 made sense when I noticed that Road and Track: The need for speed was a DOS game which I ended up launching from Windows 98 anyway.
You don't see the dashboard in NFS2-3 because you're using 8MB V2 cards. The dash is there on 12MB cards. NFS4-5 have dash in 3D instead of textures that have to be loaded in memory, so they're visible even on 8MB cards.
nfs porsche even runs with 3dfx voodoo rush, it's even slower than the voodoo 1. I can drive as long as I want but sometimes everything freezes in the menu lol
I actually got the idea for this clip from someone that was running Porsche on a Pentium 233MMX with a voodoo1. I imagined if that pc was able to run porsche in 640x480 then I would definitely be able to run the first 4 on an SLI.
Ar fi super interesant si un video Riva TNT1 vs Voodoo 2 cu benchmark-uri in Quake 2, Unreal, Sin, Expendable sau alte jocuri. TNT1, Voodoo 2 si Banshee au fost marii rivali ai anului 1998 in industria placilor video.
Am pornit de la ideea sa fac evolutia Doom de la 1 la 3 pe Voodoo2 SLI insa procesorul trebuie sa fie ceva mai puternic asa ca am ales sa fac pt NFS pentru ca cer mai putine resurse, Porsche vrea 233Mhz. Trebuie sa studiez putin problema incalzirii voodoo2 cand folosesc un Athlon XP (probabil un 2000+). Mersi de idei, voi mai face clipuri cu placi 3dfx.
@@3dfxvoodoocards6 Pentru moment sunt altele in coada de asteptare, canalul nu e specializat pe 3dfx :) dar incerc in urmatoarele 3 clipuri sa mai bag unul cu voodoo.
Nice setup. From my understanding, 3dfx cards alone cost 300-400 dollars. I had to go cheap and buy AGP Voodoo 3 3000 for similiar setup :( I want to find a Voodoo 1 somewhere for proper DOS compatibility.
I bought earlier this year the 2 voodoo in this clip for 250euro. So don't fall for the scalpers. From time to time you can find something at a decent price.
@@retrodrive-thru47 You've pretty much got a best price possible. Voodoo 2 goes for $150-ish each. But for a contrast, my Voodoo 3 3000 was around $30. I have to get off my arse and make my 440BX MicroATX 1ghz Pentium into a compact console-like case.
The Riva TNT in NFS4 gave some washed up colors and all the menus were off. So I can't say that the D3D version was good as I wasn't able to start it. Maybe it was a driver issue, I do plan to look into that, so thanks for the heads up :). Right now I don't remember the D3D in nfs 3 it may have been there but I may have had issues with it. I'll look into that as well. Since many observations have gathered here, I plan to do a follow up video of this. If you have any suggestions about graphics cards, renderer and tests I will try to do it. I'm thinking about a Voodoo 4 4500 for glide and a Geforce 2 MX for Software/DX as I think the GF2 wouldn't have the driver issues I've encountered for D3D with the Riva TNT.
Играл во все 5 частей на p200mmx, позже с voodoo2. Возможно ли сейчас подобное на средненькой системе, иметь возможность без диких тормозов поиграть в пять частей франшизы, на одной системе? 😂
Well, some games in the nfs series weren't that demanding. I have another video with 4 of my previous configurations going through the series. My second configuration with an AMD x2 and a 6800gt was good for more than the games I presented there (from Hot Pursuit 2 to Carbon). I was surprised that even Shift2 asked for a compatible DX 9c graphics card. And I think I could have pushed the 6800 until then.
Yes, it's true. I guess they really were keen on replacing much of the great background art with real-time clouds. Sometimes good art is good art and should be left alone.
The capture card adds somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2s of delay. I'm sorry it was bad but is was mostly intended to showcase the voodoo VS software renderer. If you want to be amazed there's a Nfs evolution clip... That should probably be equally bad :)). Cheers!
i love the NFS HS Route Adonf. epic trak
Nice to see the Glide API on Need for speed II. Back then, my dad bought the Diamond Multimedia RIVA TNT 16mb AGP, and it outperformed or was on par with a single Voodoo2 in OpenGL and D3d. I never had a Voodoo2 to add onto my RIVA TNT until much later, so I was never able to see this game in Glide, but Need for Speed 2 was one of those games that still looked great in software mode
Before this clip I've never seen any of them in Glide, not even out of curiosity, and I was kind of shocked how good NFS3 looked. NFS2 was really better in software mode but it was obvious that the development team was trying various things with the glide engine. Glide was really above the D3D and OGL up until maybe 1998. But afterwards the others were beginning to catch up. By 2000 the voodoo cards were outclassed, but I was happy to see that Porsche had little things extra in Glide mode I think that the developers enjoyed working with it.
Such a cool comparison! NFS III for life!
The one true game to rule them all! The only one where trees reflect on the cars even in tunnels.
The reason intel and AMD use CPUs on a card, was because Cache memory wasn't integrated in the CPU die, and relied on external chips that were rather large, hence the need of doing an all in one package.
The socket 370 and socket A CPUs that replaced slot 1 and slot A) had cache on the chip.
Some of that software rendering is quite impressive, like the shiny environment mapping on the cars in NFS3. Wasn't expecting that.
I can understand why the early 3dfx ones went with a totally different skybox to complement the fog effect, but I'm glad the later games made things look more similar across different rendering modes.
Yes, At some point trying to synchronize the 2 clips in NFS2 I was wondering if it's the same replay or whether I'm completely off with my synchronization. Things still look different in the future games but like you said they tended to be more similar. One thing I notice was in NFS Porsche that the lens flare from the Sun only appears once for the DX implementation and fades away quicker than the Glide that has an additional 3 lens flares throughout the stage. Also there's one curious thing about the replays... The Glide one is like 5(or more) pixels lower than the software one, that is why sometimes I crop elements of the screen.
Speram sa vedem cat mai multe video-uri la fel de interesante. keep up the good work!
Will do
NFS porsche is imo the best title in entire franchise (up to 2022). It holds special place in my heart. It got old, no doubt as it's 20+ year old game but the feeling, music, tracks, cars and PHYSICS - it's all damn great and it's possible to play with modern steering wheels and it feels even better. Probably better than sex
I have to admit that I stopped playing the franchise after Most Wanted (the one that came after Underground2). I really enjoyed that one and the first Underground (the second was ok but I had to travel a too much) but Porsche has hit different. Almost a SIM but still enjoyable. For me this is a game that I constantly return to but I abandoned for a while as newer graphics card could not play it, until I discovered the 4k patch (or you can do it manually using nglide) and I even found it a bit more enjoyable as the voodoo version has this tiny graphical goodies that simply were not there in the Direct X version. This is how I came with the idea to create this clip, DirectX/Software vs Glide. Thank you for your comment. (I would have liked I few more tracks but I still enjoy the rest like I did 20+ years ago)
Again, I was never that into driving games. More of an FPS player. But I remember seeing a preview for NFS : Porsche on Cybernet on ITV at like 2:30AM one morning. And the way the car models rolled, the fluidity of the gameplay, the graphics - everything looked amazing! So I found the game on an FTP somewhere and downloaded it, and I spent the next entire month playing through the game. It was superb! The only NFS game I ever liked really. And the way the game developed, with you starting with the oldest most trash car, and slowly aquiring newer models as time advanced, and then upgrading them, and customizing them to suit certain events / races better. It was timeless. One of the best racing games ever, and certainly the most forward thinking or it's era. Apart from GT Legends, I've not enjoyed a racing game as much as NFS : Porsche. Perhaps Carmageddon but - that's hardly a real racing game, is it? :D
Indeed, I was a little to young (or poor) for a computer during the carmageddon period but Nfs Porsche was a favorite of mine for a long time. I think that only gran turismo 1 (ps1) was the only game I also enyojed a lot. Of course Nfs underground and most wanted were really good but I never really returned to them during the past years. While I always look for a method to play Porsche whenever I change my computer/video card. I also found the driving style of Mafia from 2001 to be quite attractive.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Never played Mafia. Didn't even realize the games were good until very recently. 2001-2004 I was pretty much exclusively playing Quake III OSP. But I did download the Mafia Remastered games last year. Plan on taking a loot at them when I get time.
I work in a school now, primarilly with autistic or other special needs kids. One lad I worked with, named Tom, the only way I found to connect with him and gain his trust, was by talking about Manga (Anime?) and gaming.
Being old, my manga knowledge was limited to Ninja Scrolls, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Studio Ghibli etc. But in gaming, I can talk for hours.
He told me, constantly, about Mafia games! Once those remasters came out - he played them all. And the way to get him through an entire physics or biology lesson, was to intermittently talk about the Mafia games. Which he constantly pressured me to play.
I have my own kids to look after, which is hard enough, and I would never find the time to play through those games. But I watch TH-cam playthroughs, so I could at least converse about them. Worked a treat!
Thats basically how I got him through his exams, at the end of his secondary school period. I hatched the plan with his mum, who would call me EVERY NIGHT, and worked it out with my boss too. Worked a treat. And he ended up with some good grades.
One day I should play some Mafia. I remember back in the early 2000s, my big brother played the original game and sang praises about it. And hes not even a gamer! But it kept him occupied for a month or so! And he was playing it on the pretty underpowered system I'd built for him for free, out of spare parts.
I guess thats one for my future. If my brother, and autistic Tom tell me it's good - then I'll believe em.
@@TheVanillatech I think you should start with the original one and move to the second, then go strait to the remaster. I'm not sure Mafia 3 is worth checking out.
Aha, so NFS:PU *was* prettier in the childhood than it is now!
I thought I was going mad.
Not all of us were lucky. I played it on an integrated SIS graphics card so my contact with the glide version only happened when I put together this clip, and I'm very happy I did. But now I'll have to put together a PC to have around when I want to play the game :)
Do the older games support higher resolutions with software rendering?
Sorry, I didn't even look into that. For me the goal was to have a perfect resolution copy in software mode. So as long as glide wasn't able to go past 1024x768 I didn't even try. Right now I can't remember but I think even in glide I ran the games in 800x600 just to make sure I get the best framerate. The cpu needed at least another 200mhz to make the best of the SLI and also these are the 8Mb Voodoo2 version. Nfs porsche definitely handled more than 1024x768 in D3D mode.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Awesome 😎
@@philscomputerlabwell it looks like this video raised lots of questions and a follow up is needed. I'll put the resolution question on the list.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Amazing that would be awesome!
Excelent video. Mi am dat seama dupa accent ca esti roman. Like!
:)) Sper ca nu e chiar asa evident accentul. Oricum scrie si pe canal ca e din Romania :)
What a great video 🤩. Congratulation👍
Thank you!
Screamer 2, Screamer Rally, Carmageddon, Twisted Metal II, Road Rash, Rollcage, NFS Porsche 2000, NFS Underground, GT Legends, 4D Racing (aka Stunts), Test Drive 2, Motoracer, Test Drive Unlimited, Extreme G 2 .... considering I don't like driving games, shit we played a lot of them over the years on PC!
This is a long list and not all of them are 3dfx glide, anyway I'll try to group them by years or engine/API and I'll create new projects to try to get as many as possible. Thanks for the list.
Quake ll and Carmageddon on voodoo card, that was awesome. how nvidia buys 3dfx?
@@molchyniym1560 Cos Nvidia. They were up to their usual nefarious bullshit in business. Granted it was preceded with bad decisions from 3Dfx regarding manufacturing their cards, and from them not innovating enough regarding newer API's. But Nvidia simply went on with their "eliminate all competition, pay off developers and reviewers to shit on the remaining ones, and fleece the PC gamers" strategy. Which they are still doing in 2023! XD
@@retrodrive-thru47 Yeah I was just mentioning the driving games I've most liked over the years, OR the ones we played in LAN meetings back in the day. I forgot TOCA and TOCA 3! They were always fun at LANS. I sucked hard at them compared to the other guys, so when I was losing bad, I'd spin around and start going backwards on the track, aiming for the race leaders. Got chased out of many warehouses by angry players doing that, but it was always funny as hell!
IMO the 3dfx version of NFS2 is a huge improvement over software rendering, with the possible exception of Mystic Peaks because of how they fogged everything over so much. I also like to point out that it's possible to get even more performance with NFS Porsche on Voodoo II SLI if you edit the renderer INI file - it can do Glide rendering but defaults to DirectX with all but the original Voodoo card.
NFS2 is debatable but I have no doubt about NFS3 and NFS4. (For NFS2 I had to disable SLI as it wouldn't start). As for NFS Porsche I used the utility to switch between DX and Voodoo driver (and also checked the registry afterwards to make sure the change was valid) and it worked pretty good for me. You can see the small hints in the side by side view for example at 36:20 the lens flare lasts for a second more on the Voodoo rendering and it's not a problem of synchronization as the frames have a maximum 4-6 hundreds of a second between them. Also there are other areas of Normandy where the lens flare is totally absent on the DirectX and there are other hints like car reflections and the colors of the environment and sky. For me this was enough confirmation that I was running in Voodoo mode and not the default DirectX but if you think that this was not it I will gladly look into that if you can describe the INI files.
@@retrodrive-thru47 You may well be running NFS Porsche in Glide mode already but this recent YT video actually shows editing the INI file at 11 mins 15 secs: th-cam.com/video/LpmOE4_eHV0/w-d-xo.htmlm15s which is a great reference btw, cuz I've found this difficult to explain without a visual aid in the past.
... and that's interesting that you had to disable SLI for NFS2 cuz I have two Diamond 12MB V2's in SLI and I've never had to fuss with it for that game, it runs fine for me.
@@angieandretti Ok, that is interesting. I've checked the entries in the ini file from the system in this clip and I only have 2 entries, Software and Voodoo (luckily I haven't formatted the harddrive). This is odd. I'm currently in the process of creating another clip (on a slightly powerful CPU) that deals in part with some NFS games so I will definitely look into this thing you are mentioning and reinstall Porsche to check this setting. I also have both saves from Normandie and Code d'Azur so I can compare Glide with DX again, it may take a while but I will definitely look into this as Porsche is one of my favorites. Thanks for the heads up. (I thought that the visual differences I saw were enough confirmation that the game was running in glide mode but I may have been wrong)
i love this
Thanks
Pre Voodoo to just before the Voodoo Twilight. I think this is more of the life and times of 3DFX than it is a NFS showcase.
You are right and I've only recently come to realize that when I noticed the poor view results of another clip about NFS evolution I've done. Thanks for the insight and this gives me an idea to use different voodoo cards to have a mini history of 3dfx.
@@retrodrive-thru47 If I ran a company my employees would study 3dfx so they would know what hubris looks like and what it does to even those who have it all.
I am looking forward to your 3dfx showcase.
Don't remember about nfs2, but from nfs3 there was way to run game in d3d mode. There was some native EA 3dsetup utility, that provides switching to d3d mode
It is, and I kind of missed the chance to do the DirectX vs Glide test. It's only Porsche that runs in DirectX as they removed the software option from that utility and in general as the default option. I guess this is a good chance to come back to these and maybe some more games to look at the differences between Glide and DX.
I used to play NFS II on software, and let me tell you, it was way more immersive back then. Also it felt you were in some sort of anime or cartoon. PS. Riva TNT has better color palette
To say the CPU is 10 times slower than what we have today is missleading. Sure the frequency is the speed of the transistors switching but the amount of transistors multiplied by the frequency determines the true speed of a CPU. The amount of cores doesn't matter either, it is just for parallel workloads. One core with a lot of fast transistors will be faster than 60 cores with less transistors or slower ones in a non parallel scenario.
You are of course right, I was just comparing Megahertz to Megahertz nothing more. Even if I was able to reduce a modern CPU to 500Mhz (or increase a retro one to 5Ghz) and compare them in a single thread scenario I'm sure that they would not be equal as modern CPU have additional instructions, different length pipelines and so on. ( Actually I tried something like this with the Phenom 2 X4 in the clip where I tried to use an AM2 platform for Windows 98, while running it at 280Mhz it performed a little bit better than the k6-2@400Mhz but I was using a 200Mhz bus so it's not a fair comparison). A non parallel scenario may be possible only for windows 9x and earlier, practically the amount of cores starts to matter beginning with Windows 2000, I used to play around with the affinity under XP and send a game to a less used core where it wasn't bothered by other applications but to this day I'm not sure it helped or not :) ( maybe some benchmarking would be in order)
good video! thanks.
Glad you liked it!
You should have compared the TNT (Direct X) versions to the 3Dfx versions whenever possible. I find that the limited texture size on 3Dfx kills a lot of the benefits these cards offered back in the days. That was made only more obvious when decent direct x cards like the TNT were shipped, it was even worse in games that could be run in 32-bit colors.
Yes you are right. While the first version and NFS II SE only had software, starting with the third game a direct X version was available but both Hot Pursuit and High Stakes had issues with the direct X versions. I used the Diamond driver but it didn't work, I also think I used just one version of the detonator (not very new) and there were still issues. I plan on revisiting this format but keep the games spread only over 2 years maximum for example getting games from 1996-1998 and compare software to glide. Again, another clip would get early direct x games and compare them to glide. I think I also noticed the limited texture issue you are mentioning but it manifests in the games released closer to 2000. If you have any suggestions about games where this issue is obvious please leave some titles and I will investigate. I also know about the 16bit - 32bit issue but I was under the impression that the voodoos have an internal 24bit that helps them get close to the output of 32bit card, but I will more than gladly investigate any example of this as well.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Yes, I remember having these problems too. What a flashback
Yes, the RIVA TNT was a great card to rival the Voodoo2, especially with the 24-bit Z-buffer and 32 bit color...The 16mb still limited the texture quality in games, but was still much, much than a single Voodoo2. I remember all the effects ran well on it but textures and real-time shadows had to be limited. When the RIVA TNT came out, I knew that 3dfx was going to have problems. When the 32mb TNT2 came out that's when the textures for games started getting better. The Glide API ever came back from that as people started using Direct3D more. Eventually, I removed the Voodoo2 after upgrading to a Geforce 2 a few years later on the same hardware, then never needed a 3dfx card again, especially since these cards looked and ran better in OpenGL than the 3dfx cards did.
Have this queued up to watch later, I do agree with Porsche being the cut off for the original style games
The clip explores all first 5 games (except the first one) from 2 angles Side by Side comparison and '50% screen SoftwareMode' to '50% screen Glide' always on different tracks(I plan to do this for other games as well). I also wanted to add a Voodoo 3 2000 just to compare it with the V2 SLI but it would have made the clip too long and also to framerate counter in glide is a bit tricky...at best. About NFS Porsche I'm not sure that I said it was a cut off, although I also have the same feeling, it's more of a simulator and less of an arcade game compared to previous games and they didn't developed anything similar ever since, also the last game to support glide in their series(although glide usually is not set as default for it)
Epicness
About first compare: on right NOT "Windows" version. It's "Special Edition" version. It COULD run under Windows, BUT perfectly works and under pure DOS.
You are right. I did open it from Windows 98, I hope I remember correctly :)
NFS 2 are support hardware doar pt placile video 3dfx Voodoo - Glide, toate celelalte Nvidia ATI Matrox S3 etc functioneaza doar in Software mode.
Ah, Oare am zis altceva? NFS 1 e doar soft, NFS2 soft si glide, NFS 3,4,5 Soft, Glide si DX dar TNT-ul asta nu a mers prea bine in DX pe 3 si 4.
@@retrodrive-thru47 nu ai zis altceva :). Doar spuneam ca numai posesorii placilor 3dfx puteau juca NFS 2 in glide cu hardware acceleration. Cei cu placi nvidia ati matrox S3 etx nu aveau aceasta posibilitate, ei puteau doar sa il joace in Software.
I had this exact same CPU!
At a glance I thought it would be a bit slow, but it was a great CPU for this clip.
NFS 5 kinda shows that the TNT (which launched only 3 months after the Voodoo2), was already pretty much ahead of the voodoo.
Higher resolution textures might not have been a thing back in early 1998, but nVidia were clearly thinking ahead... not to mention that the TNT was already a DirectX6 card. While the Voodoo2 was only DX5 with maybe some DX6 features.
And also the fact that you need 2x Voodoo2 for NFS5 to work as well as it does on a single TNT that's also displaying higher res textures, kinda makes you wonder!...
Indeed, but I still felt a little love from the developers for glide. Little graphical treats that can only be seen if you are really paying attention. Too bad we didn't get to see more of glide.
@@retrodrive-thru47 There were, though, 3 generations of the Glide API, AFAIK... each represented by their Glide.dll file (glide.dll, glide2x.dll and glide3x.dll). And by the end of 1999, and the launch of DX7; DirectX managed to catch up and surpass the glide API, making it pretty much obsolete.
3dfx Glide, starting as a stripped down version of OpenGL, pretty much did it's job bringing fast & good looking 3D graphics to the (very) low powered PCs of the mid 90's. But by the end of the millennium, computing power was almost 10x what is was @ '95 when Glide was conceived... so you could just use OpenGL, or the newly matured DirectX, which brought pretty much everything that 3dfx Glide did, and more...
So IMO, Glide had a sufficiently long run to
a) set an example of how things should be
b) give us nice looking 3D games until the industry caught up :)
By the year 2000, there were no tricks left up it's sleeve...
3dfx Glide was "that cool friend" or cousin, that everyone had, that used to bring you mp3s & games, before you had an internet connection :)
You deserve more sucribe. Nice video
Thank you.
The framerate in NFS5 is pretty bad in both modes. Would a Voodoo4 work better for this?
Yes, well, this computer had 1998 hardware that was showing it's age. What I tried here was more of a evolution video. I do plan to come back to this and split it in 3 clips. The early games like NFS2 and others that go with the V1, the golden age, the voodoo2, that will go with the NFS3,4 and the downfall where I plan to use a voodoo5 against a GF2GTS on a better PC and have a similar comparison for the glide games released in 2000 and later.
Didn't know Voodoo5 existed. Anyway, what I'm actually asking is if a Voodoo4 would be able to run all these games, because I have one, just missing the rest of the parts. I remember there being some drama with Voodoo4 and NFS3 back in the day.
the so called "game-port" was associated to the soundcard not because of the dos-times, it was originally a midi-port.
Oh, yes, you could add extensions to the sound card for midi right? I kind of missed those times so I don't have that much knowledge in that area. Thanks for clearing that up.
The AWE64 Gold is a nice card. But why not just use the onboard sound? As long as you do not boot in pure dos, it should work in 98SE?
You are right! I mention in the clip that I intended to used a sound blaster live initially but I owe a guy some really nice pc parts and he insisted I use the AWE64. I have to admit that using the onboard sound didn't even cross my mind :). But the AWE64 made sense when I noticed that Road and Track: The need for speed was a DOS game which I ended up launching from Windows 98 anyway.
You don't see the dashboard in NFS2-3 because you're using 8MB V2 cards. The dash is there on 12MB cards. NFS4-5 have dash in 3D instead of textures that have to be loaded in memory, so they're visible even on 8MB cards.
Wow, interesting stuff to know. Thank you!
nfs porsche even runs with 3dfx voodoo rush, it's even slower than the voodoo 1.
I can drive as long as I want but sometimes everything freezes in the menu lol
I actually got the idea for this clip from someone that was running Porsche on a Pentium 233MMX with a voodoo1. I imagined if that pc was able to run porsche in 640x480 then I would definitely be able to run the first 4 on an SLI.
Ar fi super interesant si un video Riva TNT1 vs Voodoo 2 cu benchmark-uri in Quake 2, Unreal, Sin, Expendable sau alte jocuri. TNT1, Voodoo 2 si Banshee au fost marii rivali ai anului 1998 in industria placilor video.
Am pornit de la ideea sa fac evolutia Doom de la 1 la 3 pe Voodoo2 SLI insa procesorul trebuie sa fie ceva mai puternic asa ca am ales sa fac pt NFS pentru ca cer mai putine resurse, Porsche vrea 233Mhz. Trebuie sa studiez putin problema incalzirii voodoo2 cand folosesc un Athlon XP (probabil un 2000+). Mersi de idei, voi mai face clipuri cu placi 3dfx.
Planuiesc si un clip in care sa analizez competitia pt toate versiunile de la V1 la V5 dar o sa dureze.
@@retrodrive-thru47 super, abea astept sa vad video-urile :)
@@3dfxvoodoocards6 Pentru moment sunt altele in coada de asteptare, canalul nu e specializat pe 3dfx :) dar incerc in urmatoarele 3 clipuri sa mai bag unul cu voodoo.
@@retrodrive-thru47 bineinteles, e bine atunci cand le vine randul :). Oricum ai un subscriber in plus.
Nice setup. From my understanding, 3dfx cards alone cost 300-400 dollars.
I had to go cheap and buy AGP Voodoo 3 3000 for similiar setup :( I want to find a Voodoo 1 somewhere for proper DOS compatibility.
I bought earlier this year the 2 voodoo in this clip for 250euro. So don't fall for the scalpers. From time to time you can find something at a decent price.
@@retrodrive-thru47 You've pretty much got a best price possible. Voodoo 2 goes for $150-ish each. But for a contrast, my Voodoo 3 3000 was around $30.
I have to get off my arse and make my 440BX MicroATX 1ghz Pentium into a compact console-like case.
Does a Voodoo Banshee have good DOS compatibility? It's AGP so I doubt it.
Nfs 3 and 4 have direct3d renderers. So to say that the voodoo cards change everything is a bit misleading.
The Riva TNT in NFS4 gave some washed up colors and all the menus were off. So I can't say that the D3D version was good as I wasn't able to start it. Maybe it was a driver issue, I do plan to look into that, so thanks for the heads up :). Right now I don't remember the D3D in nfs 3 it may have been there but I may have had issues with it. I'll look into that as well. Since many observations have gathered here, I plan to do a follow up video of this. If you have any suggestions about graphics cards, renderer and tests I will try to do it. I'm thinking about a Voodoo 4 4500 for glide and a Geforce 2 MX for Software/DX as I think the GF2 wouldn't have the driver issues I've encountered for D3D with the Riva TNT.
Играл во все 5 частей на p200mmx, позже с voodoo2. Возможно ли сейчас подобное на средненькой системе, иметь возможность без диких тормозов поиграть в пять частей франшизы, на одной системе? 😂
Well, some games in the nfs series weren't that demanding. I have another video with 4 of my previous configurations going through the series. My second configuration with an AMD x2 and a 6800gt was good for more than the games I presented there (from Hot Pursuit 2 to Carbon). I was surprised that even Shift2 asked for a compatible DX 9c graphics card. And I think I could have pushed the 6800 until then.
There really is no debate on NFS II, Software mode looks better.
Yes, it's true. I guess they really were keen on replacing much of the great background art with real-time clouds. Sometimes good art is good art and should be left alone.
Sorry dude...not a bad vid but I couldn't finish it because of your driving.
The capture card adds somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2s of delay. I'm sorry it was bad but is was mostly intended to showcase the voodoo VS software renderer. If you want to be amazed there's a Nfs evolution clip... That should probably be equally bad :)). Cheers!
@@retrodrive-thru47 My bad...didn't realize you were fighting a delay! I had a Voodoo 2, not SLI though...great card! Thanks for the feedback.